Differences Between East and West Punjabi Relations vs East and West Bangladeshi Relations

[DeadlyVenom]

Whenever I meet an Indian Punjabi or even interact with Indian Punjabis online the situation is usually quite cordial and jovial ( of course there is some odd exceptions). Especially in real life whether they mean it or not, people from both sides usually enjoy sharing and talking about their joint culture and language despite the religious divides the usual sentiment is Punjabis are one but politics divides us and both sides usually lament about visiting the other at some point.

I haven't observed this between East and West Bengal as much, despite a similar shared history and language.

Is this a correct assessment? it may not be as the Punjab assessment is a lived experience and the Bengal is just an observation. I am basing it also on online interactions and diaspora communities I have observed.

What are the thoughts here what is the reason for this difference?

 

[sweep_shot]

West Bengalis and Bangladeshis used to have good relations too.

Everything got spoiled after BJP/RSS/Modi happened.

 

[KB]

Interestingly, Ehsan Mani in remembering Inderjit Bindra, wrote (on Cricinfo):

“He was very much at home in Lahore and had many friends in Pakistan. This was probably, I think, because he was a Sikh and Punjabi, and so his thinking and culture were similar to those of people from the Punjab on Pakistan's side. Occasionally I would joke with him in Punjabi, or when I didn't want Jaggu or anyone else to understand something we were saying.”

@DeadlyVenom post is suggestive rather than definitive but in that spirit, I would offer the following speculative thoughts.

I wrote in 2018 about the important differences of the partition experience between the Punjab and Bengal (https://ppforum.pakpassion.net/thre...orities-says-imran-khan.279691/#post-10037344). In Punjab, where violence was intense and brutal, there was a virtual exchange of populations, most of it by November 1947. The Punjab border became a ‘hard’ border.

In Bengal violence was of a more chronic but less intense nature. Unlike the Punjab, migration was actively discouraged by central and provincial governments and migration across the Bengal border continued - both ways - for years and years after 1947. The border remained ‘porous’. There is also much evidence, that rehabilitation was far more drawn out in Bengal and far less effective than the Punjab experience.

Could it be that in Punjab, with the emptying of minority communities, which meant that they no longer lived side by side nor competed for resources, made it easier for many Punjabis to romanticise the past? That it facilitated a nostalgic remembrance? Whereas in Bengal, where the border remained porous, friction persists centred around a discourse on illegal immigration, that perhaps dampens any romanticism for the past.

The second point - again I am speculating here - is perhaps the sharper class differences in Bengal. (See: https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/can-bengal-divide-be-bridged-1503186608.html)

The so-called Bengali Bhadralok elite viewed themselves as refined, cultured, and soft-spoken. The Bhadralok identity was built on intellectualism and debate, not necessarily “joviality,” which is perhaps more central to Punjabi culture.

It might be argued that the elite looked down on the refugees as "uncouth," "loud," and “aggressive." On the other hand the refugees viewed the West Bengalis as "effete," "lazy," "stingy," and "lacking courage.”

If so, Punjab’s ‘completed’ demographic rupture and Bengal’s ongoing, class-inflected frictions could plausibly produce the different affective registers that @DeadlyVenom speculates exists among Punjabis and Bengalis today.

 

[Vikram1989]

I wrote in 2018 about the important differences of the partition experience between the Punjab and Bengal

Any good books on partition (which are as effective as u said on other thread )bro ?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Bengalis in general are a very isolated community. They had a golden generation but overall very miserable people to be frank. Not even liked by majority of Indians on average.

Punjabis on the other hand are a jovial community, they live life to the fullest and the way they live life attracts people’s attention.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

I was genuinely thinking of this yesterday..I think Bangladesh is a big enough nation comfortable with its culture. Pakistani Punjabis seek some sort of validation from Indian Punjabis which is like Stockholm syndrome given the occupation under their rule

 

[sweep_shot]

I was genuinely thinking of this yesterday..I think Bangladesh is a big enough nation comfortable with its culture. Pakistani Punjabis seek some sort of validation from Indian Punjabis which is like Stockholm syndrome given the occupation under their rule

West Bengal culture is 100% rooted in hinduism.

Bangladeshi culture is a mixture of Islamic customs and old cultural customs. Islamic customs are more dominant.

Only commonalities are foods, genetics, and language.

 

[ElRaja]

indian punjabis, sikhs in particular, are very different to other indians. they tend to have the most natural confidence, wear their identities on their sleeves, and do not operate (in general) from a point of hate towards pakistanis. i think it probably has something to do with their stereotypes generally involving positive traits, i.e. big, strong, warrior farmers with a good sense of humour.

 

[rickroll]

Interestingly, Ehsan Mani in remembering Inderjit Bindra, wrote (on Cricinfo):

“He was very much at home in Lahore and had many friends in Pakistan. This was probably, I think, because he was a Sikh and Punjabi, and so his thinking and culture were similar to those of people from the Punjab on Pakistan's side. Occasionally I would joke with him in Punjabi, or when I didn't want Jaggu or anyone else to understand something we were saying.”

@DeadlyVenom post is suggestive rather than definitive but in that spirit, I would offer the following speculative thoughts.

I wrote in 2018 about the important differences of the partition experience between the Punjab and Bengal (https://ppforum.pakpassion.net/thre...orities-says-imran-khan.279691/#post-10037344). In Punjab, where violence was intense and brutal, there was a virtual exchange of populations, most of it by November 1947. The Punjab border became a ‘hard’ border.

In Bengal violence was of a more chronic but less intense nature. Unlike the Punjab, migration was actively discouraged by central and provincial governments and migration across the Bengal border continued - both ways - for years and years after 1947. The border remained ‘porous’. There is also much evidence, that rehabilitation was far more drawn out in Bengal and far less effective than the Punjab experience.

Could it be that in Punjab, with the emptying of minority communities, which meant that they no longer lived side by side nor competed for resources, made it easier for many Punjabis to romanticise the past? That it facilitated a nostalgic remembrance? Whereas in Bengal, where the border remained porous, friction persists centred around a discourse on illegal immigration, that perhaps dampens any romanticism for the past.

The second point - again I am speculating here - is perhaps the sharper class differences in Bengal. (See: https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/can-bengal-divide-be-bridged-1503186608.html)

The so-called Bengali Bhadralok elite viewed themselves as refined, cultured, and soft-spoken. The Bhadralok identity was built on intellectualism and debate, not necessarily “joviality,” which is perhaps more central to Punjabi culture.

It might be argued that the elite looked down on the refugees as "uncouth," "loud," and “aggressive." On the other hand the refugees viewed the West Bengalis as "effete," "lazy," "stingy," and "lacking courage.”

If so, Punjab’s ‘completed’ demographic rupture and Bengal’s ongoing, class-inflected frictions could plausibly produce the different affective registers that @DeadlyVenom speculates exists among Punjabis and Bengalis today.

Good post!

 

[SpiritOf1903]

indian punjabis, sikhs in particular, are very different to other indians. they tend to have the most natural confidence, wear their identities on their sleeves, and do not operate (in general) from a point of hate towards pakistanis. i think it probably has something to do with their stereotypes generally involving positive traits, i.e. big, strong, warrior farmers with a good sense of humour.

Partition suggests otherwise. They claim to have been massacred by Muslims do not as much love as would appear

 

[Champ_Pal]

Bengalis in general are a very isolated community. They had a golden generation but overall very miserable people to be frank. Not even liked by majority of Indians on average.

Punjabis on the other hand are a jovial community, they live life to the fullest and the way they live life attracts people’s attention.

Communists and Mamata Didi have left a sour taste in the mouth of Indians from rest of India. What should have been the most developed and high per capita state of India became a laughing meme due to decades of lack of progress.

Punjab also used to be good. Not anymore. Other than Punjabis themselves no one considers them anything special. Development and prosperity is what elevates the aura of a state. Not just rap songs and beats alone.

I consider South and western part of India much better than North and Eastern part of India. Its time for North India to buckle up and regain their glory.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Communists and Mamata Didi have left a sour taste in the mouth of Indians from rest of India. What should have been the most developed and high per capita state of India became a laughing meme due to decades of lack of progress.

Punjab also used to be good. Not anymore. Other than Punjabis themselves no one considers them anything special. Development and prosperity is what elevates the aura of a state. Not just rap songs and beats alone.

I consider South and western part of India much better than North and Eastern part of India. Its time for North India to buckle up and regain their glory.

Even if Punjab is half as developed as the rest of India, its standard of living would still not be matched. It’s a mindset. It’s a way of living life where Punjabis shine.

 

[ElRaja]

Partition suggests otherwise. They claim to have been massacred by Muslims do not as much love as would appear

i can only talk about sikhs ive met in real life, and theyve never appeared to harbour any hate towards me. the horrors of partition are real, there was a lot of inter communcal violence, however those were not normal times, they were unique in historical context for the scale of displacement of people that took place, so i think eventually both communities have to move on, and to a large extent, they have moved on.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Interestingly, Ehsan Mani in remembering Inderjit Bindra, wrote (on Cricinfo):

“He was very much at home in Lahore and had many friends in Pakistan. This was probably, I think, because he was a Sikh and Punjabi, and so his thinking and culture were similar to those of people from the Punjab on Pakistan's side. Occasionally I would joke with him in Punjabi, or when I didn't want Jaggu or anyone else to understand something we were saying.”

@DeadlyVenom post is suggestive rather than definitive but in that spirit, I would offer the following speculative thoughts.

I wrote in 2018 about the important differences of the partition experience between the Punjab and Bengal (https://ppforum.pakpassion.net/thre...orities-says-imran-khan.279691/#post-10037344). In Punjab, where violence was intense and brutal, there was a virtual exchange of populations, most of it by November 1947. The Punjab border became a ‘hard’ border.

In Bengal violence was of a more chronic but less intense nature. Unlike the Punjab, migration was actively discouraged by central and provincial governments and migration across the Bengal border continued - both ways - for years and years after 1947. The border remained ‘porous’. There is also much evidence, that rehabilitation was far more drawn out in Bengal and far less effective than the Punjab experience.

Could it be that in Punjab, with the emptying of minority communities, which meant that they no longer lived side by side nor competed for resources, made it easier for many Punjabis to romanticise the past? That it facilitated a nostalgic remembrance? Whereas in Bengal, where the border remained porous, friction persists centred around a discourse on illegal immigration, that perhaps dampens any romanticism for the past.

The second point - again I am speculating here - is perhaps the sharper class differences in Bengal. (See: https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/can-bengal-divide-be-bridged-1503186608.html)

The so-called Bengali Bhadralok elite viewed themselves as refined, cultured, and soft-spoken. The Bhadralok identity was built on intellectualism and debate, not necessarily “joviality,” which is perhaps more central to Punjabi culture.

It might be argued that the elite looked down on the refugees as "uncouth," "loud," and “aggressive." On the other hand the refugees viewed the West Bengalis as "effete," "lazy," "stingy," and "lacking courage.”

If so, Punjab’s ‘completed’ demographic rupture and Bengal’s ongoing, class-inflected frictions could plausibly produce the different affective registers that @DeadlyVenom speculates exists among Punjabis and Bengalis today.

This is a great post and I'll respond properly when I have suggested it fully but the bolded is a great analysis that is likely accurate.

I've went to Kartarpur corridor and interested with Indian pilgrims and there is a lot of romanticising of the past in Punjab and how our forefathers lived together before being divided, as if the division was something that was inflicted on them and they didn't participate, whereas it's quite likely that our grandfather's chased each other with knives with the intent to kill.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

i can only talk about sikhs ive met in real life, and theyve never appeared to harbour any hate towards me. the horrors of partition are real, there was a lot of inter communcal violence, however those were not normal times, they were unique in historical context for the scale of displacement of people that took place, so i think eventually both communities have to move on, and to a large extent, they have moved on.

Chomskyism

 

[SpiritOf1903]

This is a great post and I'll respond properly when I have suggested it fully but the bolded is a great analysis that is likely accurate.

I've went to Kartarpur corridor and interested with Indian pilgrims and there is a lot of romanticising of the past in Punjab and how our forefathers lived together before being divided, as if the division was something that was inflicted on them and they didn't participate, whereas it's quite likely that our grandfather's chased each other with knives with the intent to kill.

Of all the people of varying demographics suffered Jallianwala, it's the sikhs still seeking reparations as if the only victims.

Teg was a martyr and ranjit, rapist and plunderer, a hero. To praise Mughals offensive to them. Ironic