Different format but this Indian team continues to bottle it in ICC tournaments

[marlonbrowndo]

For 7 years now this Indian team has been going into ICC tournaments with a very strong squad on paper. I even had them as favourites for the 2019 World Cup. There is no excuse for this team not winning a single big trophy in the last 7 years. And now they've bottled it in the inaugural World Test Championship final where they should have gotten at least a draw. My question is. When will this Indian team stop choking?

 

[marlonbrowndo]

In fact, I believe I had the first post on the pre match discussion thread where I said New Zealand would definitely win because of this Indian team's tendency to choke.

 

[guna]

The issue is not bottling. The issue is about the imbalance in the team when India plays overseas. In subcontinent, the combination of Ashwin/Jaddu is deadly and they even contribute very well with the bat. In overseas, Ash/Jaddu combo is barely average with the ball and below average with the bat.

Basically our bowling has been carrying the Test team in the past 2-3 years. When our match winning bowlers become ineffective on pitches supporting swing bowling, our hopeless batsmen get exposed and there is no bowling in the team to bail them out.

 

[Cyclotron]

T20 wc 14,wc 15,t20 wc 16,ct 17,wc 19,wtc 21....

 

[marlonbrowndo]

The issue is not bottling. The issue is about the imbalance in the team when India plays overseas. In subcontinent, the combination of Ashwin/Jaddu is deadly and they even contribute very well with the bat. In overseas, Ash/Jaddu combo is barely average with the ball and below average with the bat.

Basically our bowling has been carrying the Test team in the past 2-3 years. When our match winning bowlers become ineffective on pitches supporting swing bowling, our hopeless batsmen get exposed and there is no bowling in the team to bail them out.

Yes but if conditions were the primary issue here then they should have won the 2014 or 2016 world T20.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

The issue is not bottling. The issue is about the imbalance in the team when India plays overseas. In subcontinent, the combination of Ashwin/Jaddu is deadly and they even contribute very well with the bat. In overseas, Ash/Jaddu combo is barely average with the ball and below average with the bat.

Basically our bowling has been carrying the Test team in the past 2-3 years. When our match winning bowlers become ineffective on pitches supporting swing bowling, our hopeless batsmen get exposed and there is no bowling in the team to bail them out.

I think Pujara is one who was also a poor selection. In English conditions he averages about 27 and he's not done so well in English County cricket.

Regardless India should be happy how far they've come and the away win against Australia is something that can't be taken away from them.

 

[guna]

Yes but if conditions were the primary issue here then they should have won the 2014 or 2016 world T20.

ODI's and T20's, anyone can win on a given day. In 2014, 2016, we did not have any all rounders in the team. The entire batting depended on Top 3. If anything, India overachieved with just 3 batsmen and average bowling to boot with it. The team was badly balanced with a pathetic WK batsman in MS Dhoni.

I don't see the current Indian LOI team losing too many matches irrespective of conditions. They have the balance now and full of match winners. Any ICC tournament played in the next year or so, I will back India to win it comfortably.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

ODI's and T20's, anyone can win on a given day. In 2014, 2016, we did not have any all rounders in the team. The entire batting depended on Top 3. If anything, India overachieved with just 3 batsmen and average bowling to boot with it. The team was badly balanced with a pathetic WK batsman in MS Dhoni.

I don't see the current Indian LOI team losing too many matches irrespective of conditions. They have the balance now and full of match winners. Any ICC tournament played in the next year or so, I will back India to win it comfortably.

India have had the Balance and depth for a while now.

But always choke in the crunch occasions.

There is no reason india should have lost to WI in WT20 2016, Pakistan in CT2017, NZ in WC 2019 and today (taking into account where the game stood tofay)

Kohli has bred a generation of chokers

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

There was nothing bottle about that. NZ was a much better team

 

[Cyclotron]

There was nothing bottle about that. NZ was a much better team

It could have easily been draw as batting had become easier due to sun coming out.

 

[IMMY69]

I think we should call the current phenomena "The Big Con"...

1.2 billion Indians are at the receiving end

 

[Nikhil_cric]

You can only bottle it if you are actually good enough. This team isnt.

 

[Cyclotron]

ODI's and T20's, anyone can win on a given day. In 2014, 2016, we did not have any all rounders in the team. The entire batting depended on Top 3. If anything, India overachieved with just 3 batsmen and average bowling to boot with it. The team was badly balanced with a pathetic WK batsman in MS Dhoni.

I don't see the current Indian LOI team losing too many matches irrespective of conditions. They have the balance now and full of match winners. Any ICC tournament played in the next year or so, I will back India to win it comfortably.

you can't totally blame blame dhoni.India overachieved in 2014 WC with such pathetic team and dhoni played an important part he effectively used spinners in the tournament

 

[cric_man]

There was nothing bottle about that. NZ was a much better team

All India's big guns today fell fishing well outside offstump to non threatening balls. In Tennis you would call those unforced errors.

 

[AamirWarraich]

Give credit to New Zealand they were the better team. Some of the Indian players are a bit over hyped but Dhoni and Kohli have not bred a generation of chokers. We would beg for the Pakistani team achieve what India has achieved in the last decade. India has under performed in major tournaments but they still at least get to the semi finals/finals of every competition. They can't be labelled chokers.

 

[Saj]

Going into today's play I didn't think India would lose.

In fact I thought they would comfortably play out a draw and bat all day.

But as soon as Kohli was out, they seemed to panic and not know what to do, which for a team with so many experienced players was very surprising.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

6 straight semi-final or final losses since 2014. During that time Australia, Sri Lanka, West Indies, Pakistan England and now New Zealand have all won atelast one ICC trophy. Although I think they *might* break the hoodoo in 2023; this is definitely something to ponder over.

 

[King_Kohli]

Indians to be part of Most ICC Final losses

4 - Yuvraj Singh
3 - Virat Kohli
3 - Rohit Sharma
3 - Ravindra Jadeja
3 - Ravi Ashwin

#WTCFinal

 

[street cricketer]

Genuinely wonder if this is just Kohli's bad luck charm or India are entering into Saffer territories regardless of the leader.

 

[Markhor]

Cheer up Indian fans, here's a special message for you:

[utube]X_-q9xeOgG4[/utube]

Disclaimer for sensitive souls: I know Pakistan are crap - see the other 37K posts.

 

[sindhiboy]

This was expected, india playing without match practice against a team that has just won a series against England.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">6 ICC tournaments in a row where India have been eliminated in the semi-final or final:<br><br>WT20 2014<br>World Cup 2015<br>WT20 2016<br>Champions Trophy 2017<br>World Cup 2019<br>WTC 2021<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1407782955058139143?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 23, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">New Zealand have now got the Indian team out for less than 250 in six consecutive Test innings:<br><br>170<br>217<br>124<br>242<br>191<br>165<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvNZ?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvNZ</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1407784157212721158?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 23, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[OMB]

WTC Final, India vs New Zealand: 'Need to bring in right people with right mindset'- Virat Kohli hints at
overhaul of Test side


"We will continue to reassess and continue to have conversations around what are the things required to strengthen our side and not follow or fall prey to certain patterns," Kohli said at the post-match virtual press conference.

"We will not wait for a year or so and have to plan ahead. If you see our white-ball team now, we have great depth and guys are ready and confident. Same thing needs to be done with. "You have to reassess and re-plan and understand what dynamics work for the team and how we can be fearless. Bring in right people who have right mindset to perform," the skipper said, hinting at a Test overhaul.
He also spoke about finding ways to score runs.

India scored only 217 in the first innings and were all out for 170 in the second. "We definitely need to work out better plans on understanding how to score runs. We have to stay in sync with the momentum of the game and not let the game drift away too much. I don't think there is any technical difficulties as such."

"It's more down to game-awareness and being more brave in putting bowlers under pressure and not allowing them to bowl in similar areas for longer periods of time unless it is absolutely overcast and ball swinging all over the place like it happened on day one."

"The endeavour would be to try and score runs and not worry about getting out in testing conditions. That's the way you can put opposition under pressure, otherwise you are standing there hoping that you don't get out and you are not being optimistic enough. You have to take calculated risks against a quality bowling attack like NZ."


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/icc-world-test-championship/wtc-final-india-vs-new-zealand-need-to-bring-in-right-people-with-right-mindset-virat-kohli-hints-at-overhaul-of-test-side/articleshow/83798258.cms

 

[mastimasti]

Yes but if conditions were the primary issue here then they should have won the 2014 or 2016 world T20.

Haha exactly.

It is down to outright arrogance, from selectors to fans, all alike. I posted that selecting Jadeja would be a stupid choice and was attached by Indians on this forum...guess what, his spin and batting doesn't work in these conditions

Ashwin is ok away from home but again, he isn't the deadly bowler we see on the dust bowls of India or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh.

Even the seam bowling, though very good is not other wordly like many arrogant ones claimed it to be. This was once again badly exposed in England...for the 3rd time in 4 years if I'm not mistaken?

Unless Indians, selectors and fans and probably the players spend less time making excuses and actually identify problems ,India will not triumph in global events. Heck, I guarantee once we win the world t20 later this year, it will be used to paper over the cracks of the wider issue.

India needs better test openers, a better test keeper and a better middle order.

 

[MP2011]

India have had the Balance and depth for a while now.

But always choke in the crunch occasions.

There is no reason india should have lost to WI in WT20 2016, Pakistan in CT2017, NZ in WC 2019 and today (taking into account where the game stood tofay)

Kohli has bred a generation of chokers

Agree with this. Just like he himself chokes in big matches, he as a captain, makes us choke with him.

 

[shamaan]

Genuinely wonder if this is just Kohli's bad luck charm or India are entering into Saffer territories regardless of the leader.

They were not favourites to beat new Zealand anyways even with a different captain

 

[mastimasti]

I think we should call the current phenomena "The Big Con"...

1.2 billion Indians are at the receiving end

I certainly feel it. One of the richest boards, exceptional pay checks, facilities and FTP and we just can't seem to beat the best when it matters most.

 

[street cricketer]

They were not favourites to beat new Zealand anyways even with a different captain

In England and NZ yes. They would be favourites everywhere else.

 

[hitthestump]

Even with all the power, money, control, doctored pitches, population etc. India still can't say they're the best. I don't know how it's even possible.

Give all that to even the Afghans or the Irish and they'll be winning everything overnight.

 

[Pakhs]

India have bottled it for the last 7 years but obviously it would have been some achievement to win all ICC tournaments in this period.

 

[UzmanBeast]

The issue, which I'm sure Indian fans will agree with me on, is that the loss was almost like a surrender.

I didn't see any fighting innings, any heroic attempt to at least try and fight during the final.

Losing by 8 wickets is a large margin, and it doesn't reflect the effort India put in to reaching this final.

I expected better from Kohli and Pujara, I said earlier that India's hopes of winning lay in their hands, and they bottled it.

The Indian fast bowlers also started off poorly, keeping their lengths back. Bumrah was a thorough disappointment, he should have been the spearhead of the attack but he went missing when it mattered.

I was not impressed at all, it seemed as the Indian team let NZ walk over them, especially the middle order which crumbled like a biscuit in a cup of chai.

 

[mystical man]

Thanks to kohli and we are deserving chokers of ICC Tournament.

 

[Mamoon]

Trophies are overrated. The failures of this Indian towers over the success of others.

They have established a legacy that will be remembered in history.

- Two series win in Australia. All other Asian teams in history have a big fat zero.

- longest ever reign at the top of the rankings for an Asian side.

- longest reign at the top of the rankings among all teams in the 2010-20 decade.

- 36 Test wins for Kohli as captain, the most by an Asian captain in history.

All these achievements mean a lot more than winning a one-off, rain-hit WTC final to a team that finished 100 points behind them in the table in spite of a far easier schedule.

No Asian team in history have produced bigger achievements than the post 2015 Indian team.

 

[Major]

Trophies are overrated. The failures of this Indian towers over the success of others.

They have established a legacy that will be remembered in history.

- Two series win in Australia. All other Asian teams in history have a big fat zero.

- longest ever reign at the top of the rankings for an Asian side.

- longest reign at the top of the rankings among all teams in the 2010-20 decade.

- 36 Test wins for Kohli as captain, the most by an Asian captain in history.

All these achievements mean a lot more than winning a one-off, rain-hit WTC final to a team that finished 100 points behind them in the table in spite of a far easier schedule.

No Asian team in history have produced bigger achievements than the post 2015 Indian team.

Rankings are over rated
No one cares about rankings.

In football we have rankings, yet the winner of the tournament matters.

Islamabad united won 8 games, highest ever, yet its multan sultan trophy that matters.

Nz created history, wining the first ever wtc. This was a team people used to say that are mediocre

 

[Artaxerxes]

Indian supporters are still shell shocked from the defeat by New Zealand.The excuse is this was a one off test.New Zealand would have whitewashed India because the pitches in England are not doctored.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Trophies are overrated. The failures of this Indian towers over the success of others.

They have established a legacy that will be remembered in history.

- Two series win in Australia. All other Asian teams in history have a big fat zero.

- longest ever reign at the top of the rankings for an Asian side.

- longest reign at the top of the rankings among all teams in the 2010-20 decade.

- 36 Test wins for Kohli as captain, the most by an Asian captain in history.

All these achievements mean a lot more than winning a one-off, rain-hit WTC final to a team that finished 100 points behind them in the table in spite of a far easier schedule.

No Asian team in history have produced bigger achievements than the post 2015 Indian team.

Seriously trophies are overrated????

 

[guna]

Kohli and Rohit are JAMODI bullies. Test cricket, they choke so easily. Pujara is a passenger. He should retire right away. Its painful to watch him score 8 runs in 60 balls and then getting out to a good delivery. Rahane is a specialist slip fielder. Pant is a lottery and the tail is a joke.

Basically this team is effective when the conditions are right. But in England and NZ they are on par with Zimbabwe. Batting struggles and their spinners look like gentle pie chuckers.

 

[Mamoon]

Rankings are over rated
No one cares about rankings.

In football we have rankings, yet the winner of the tournament matters.

Islamabad united won 8 games, highest ever, yet its multan sultan trophy that matters.

Nz created history, wining the first ever wtc. This was a team people used to say that are mediocre

You cannot compare LOIs and football with Test cricket.

Test cricket is above trophies. It cannot be encapsulated in a meaningless, contrived competition like the WTC which is a desperate attempt by ICC to salvage interest in the competition.

Winning a Test series in places like Australia, India, England, South Africa (until recently) will always be a bigger and tougher achievement than winning the WTC.

Moreover, a team like England would rather win an Ashes in Australia than lift the WTC at home.

Australia would rather beat India in India than win a one-off WTC final in England against New Zealand.

This is the problem with the WTC - it is not bigger than the biggest series. Winning the biggest series, especially away from home, is bigger than winning the WTC and sustaining the top ranked position in Test cricket is harder than winning the WTC final which is a one-off game.

If ICC wants to make this stupid so-called championship credible, they should make it a best of 3 final. Not this one match nonsense.

LOIs and football do not have this problem. The tournaments are the biggest prize. However, in Test cricket, the traditional big series are a bigger deal than the WTC.

Any team would trade any ODI series for a World Cup title and would trade any T20I series for a WT20.

However, that is not the case in Tests. India would never trade beating Australia in Australia twice for winning the WTC final against New Zealand, England and Australia would never pick the WTC over beating each other away from home.

India wouldn’t give a damn about this final if they beat England in England later this summer.

Kane Williamson would happily give up the WTC final for beating India in India later this year.

His team will get thrashed, but if they wont, it would be a far bigger achievement than the WTC final and would probably their greatest ever achievement in Test cricket.

The WTC cannot be treated like a proper tournament like the World Cup and the WT20 because it is not the biggest prize in the format. It is a poor man’s Champions Trophy.

 

[The cricket enthusiast]

Trophies are overrated. The failures of this Indian towers over the success of others.

They have established a legacy that will be remembered in history.

- Two series win in Australia. All other Asian teams in history have a big fat zero.

- longest ever reign at the top of the rankings for an Asian side.

- longest reign at the top of the rankings among all teams in the 2010-20 decade.

- 36 Test wins for Kohli as captain, the most by an Asian captain in history.

All these achievements mean a lot more than winning a one-off, rain-hit WTC final to a team that finished 100 points behind them in the table in spite of a far easier schedule.

No Asian team in history have produced bigger achievements than the post 2015 Indian team.

It's karma written all over your post .
We bottle it in the finals is a open secret can't hide from it . Especially Kohli as a player & a captain.

 

[Aman]

You cannot compare LOIs and football with Test cricket.

Test cricket is above trophies. It cannot be encapsulated in a meaningless, contrived competition like the WTC which is a desperate attempt by ICC to salvage interest in the competition.

Winning a Test series in places like Australia, India, England, South Africa (until recently) will always be a bigger and tougher achievement than winning the WTC.

Moreover, a team like England would rather win an Ashes in Australia than lift the WTC at home.

Australia would rather beat India in India than win a one-off WTC final in England against New Zealand.

This is the problem with the WTC - it is not bigger than the biggest series. Winning the biggest series, especially away from home, is bigger than winning the WTC and sustaining the top ranked position in Test cricket is harder than winning the WTC final which is a one-off game.

If ICC wants to make this stupid so-called championship credible, they should make it a best of 3 final. Not this one match nonsense.

LOIs and football do not have this problem. The tournaments are the biggest prize. However, in Test cricket, the traditional big series are a bigger deal than the WTC.

Any team would trade any ODI series for a World Cup title and would trade any T20I series for a WT20.

However, that is not the case in Tests. India would never trade beating Australia in Australia twice for winning the WTC final against New Zealand, England and Australia would never pick the WTC over beating each other away from home.

India wouldn’t give a damn about this final if they beat England in England later this summer.

Kane Williamson would happily give up the WTC final for beating India in India later this year.

His team will get thrashed, but if they wont, it would be a far bigger achievement than the WTC final and would probably their greatest ever achievement in Test cricket.

The WTC cannot be treated like a proper tournament like the World Cup and the WT20 because it is not the biggest prize in the format. It is a poor man’s Champions Trophy.

Lmao no he wouldn't. You have no idea what you're talking about so please stop talking on the behalf of NZ and their fans.

This is the biggest moment in NZC's history by far. We've already beaten Aus in Aus and beating India in India? Hell nah, well take the world championship any day of the week.

This team is going to get a parade once they're out of quarantine. You think that would have happened if they won a series in India? The casual fan wouldnt even know about it and why it means anything.

 

[Aman]

Mamoon's meltdown has been funny.

His takes are hitting new lows after seeing his team get beat in another big time Final.

The funniest part of it all is the absolute delusion of it all. Saying things as if they're facts. You're not a NZder or fan, you have no idea how important this win was and how big it's been here.

 

[King-Misbah]

Mamoon's meltdown has been funny.

His takes are hitting new lows after seeing his team get beat in another big time Final.

The funniest part of it all is the absolute delusion of it all. Saying things as if they're facts. You're not a NZder or fan, you have no idea how important this win was and how big it's been here.

Trophies don't matter is hilarious! I thought I would never read such garbage but Mamoon doesn't surprise me. Well done to New Zeland for a crushing victory.

 

[krikit]

You cannot compare LOIs and football with Test cricket.

Test cricket is above trophies. It cannot be encapsulated in a meaningless, contrived competition like the WTC which is a desperate attempt by ICC to salvage interest in the competition.

Winning a Test series in places like Australia, India, England, South Africa (until recently) will always be a bigger and tougher achievement than winning the WTC.

Moreover, a team like England would rather win an Ashes in Australia than lift the WTC at home.

Australia would rather beat India in India than win a one-off WTC final in England against New Zealand.

This is the problem with the WTC - it is not bigger than the biggest series. Winning the biggest series, especially away from home, is bigger than winning the WTC and sustaining the top ranked position in Test cricket is harder than winning the WTC final which is a one-off game.

If ICC wants to make this stupid so-called championship credible, they should make it a best of 3 final. Not this one match nonsense.

LOIs and football do not have this problem. The tournaments are the biggest prize. However, in Test cricket, the traditional big series are a bigger deal than the WTC.

Any team would trade any ODI series for a World Cup title and would trade any T20I series for a WT20.

However, that is not the case in Tests. India would never trade beating Australia in Australia twice for winning the WTC final against New Zealand, England and Australia would never pick the WTC over beating each other away from home.

India wouldn’t give a damn about this final if they beat England in England later this summer.

Kane Williamson would happily give up the WTC final for beating India in India later this year.

His team will get thrashed, but if they wont, it would be a far bigger achievement than the WTC final and would probably their greatest ever achievement in Test cricket.

The WTC cannot be treated like a proper tournament like the World Cup and the WT20 because it is not the biggest prize in the format. It is a poor man’s Champions Trophy.

Good to see that my posts are serving an educational purpose here
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...nt-cricket-match-EVER&p=11217557#post11217557

The other poster is right about one thing. This match is certainly more important for the Kiwis given that they have never won any real trophy before and generally get a good pasting whenever they face the Aussies (which is the only other test match that invests the general public in there). This is their first real world-championship win.

For teams with more established rivalries such as England with Australia and India with Australia (and a few years ago, even SA and Aus; funny how Aussies are always there), beating each other even at home, would have far more significance than this one-off match.

Given the reaction to this win, I think the Kiwis would probably take this over an away series win over the Aussies too, but neither India nor England would. They would have also complained non-stop if the advantages they received were given instead to India (2 match warm-up series in a similar host country, bunsen burner, winning the toss, constant rain interruption during their innings etc.)

 

[Last Monetarist]

Given the reaction to this win, I think the Kiwis would probably take this over an away series win over the Aussies too, but neither India nor England would.

Not a chance of that. The casual New Zealander will only take notice of the cricket team if they do well against Australia.

 

[Aman]

Not a chance of that. The casual New Zealander will only take notice of the cricket team if they do well against Australia.

They would hear about it and move on, this is a world championship and more meaningful.

 

[King_Kohli]

Last 7 ICC Tournaments , 7 Different winners

CT 2013- India
T20 WC 2014- SL
ODI WC 2015- AUS
T20WC 2016- WI
CT 2017- Pakistan
ODI WC 2019- England
WTC Final 2021- NZ

 

[Executioner]

I believe it is a combination of a lack of nerves and a bit of luck. India just didnt find ways to get out of some tough situation in knockout moments. That has been the case since 2014 T20 WC.

You know the most interesting thing? The only team India has been able to beat in a knockout game since 2014 T20, is Bangladesh (a very poor team). Also India did beat a certain team in 2014 WT20 Semis, but I can't seem to recall. I don't think there are any red flags with the Indian team with regards to failing in knockouts. IT JUST HAPPENS. This applied to NZ in recent past, and also applied to SA team between 1992-2015.

Has anyone brought up how despite having the best T20 talent pool in the world, Australia has not won a single WT20? In fact, they only went to the finals once on virtue of a freakish innings by Mike Hussey. Sports can be a funny thing and perhaps all these incidents make it so interesting and why we truly love sports.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]

Perhaps I overestimated the mentality of New Zealand fans. After all, New Zealand is a small cricket team with fans who have a small-time mentality.

The players themselves would rather be nice losers and nasty winners. That is where they thrive.

Nevertheless, the genuine heavyweight teams (the big 3) will never put winning a WTC final against New Zealand over winning in each other’s homes. That will always be bigger than WTC.

 

[nextover666666]

You can only bottle it if you are actually good enough. This team isnt.

But i thought india was the best team in the world

 

[Aman]

This is the GOAT Asian Test team because of the following achievements:

1) They have 2 Test series wins in Australia. All other Asian teams have 0.

2) They have had a longer reign as a number 1 ranked Test team than any Asian team in history.

3) No team spent more time at the top of the rankings in the 2010-2020 decade then India.

4) Kohli has 36 Test wins as captain – he is the most successful Asian captain of all time. He has 22 more Test wins than Imran Khan and 9 more than Dhoni, the second most successful Asian Test captain of all time.

In fact, only 3 captains in history have won more Tests than Kohli and none of them are Asian.

These are cold, hard facts that are not up for debate.

Yes, winning the WTC final would have been an icing on the cake, but it does nothing to their status as the GOAT Asian Team, because they became the GOAT Asian Team before they qualified for the final.

36 wins yet Kane is the one who won the most important and most significant Test match in history and is the one sitting with the world championship and immortality.

He'll forever be remembered as the first man to lift the mace like Clive Llyod and the ODI WC. He's written himself into cricket's history books forever. Burn baby burn.

 

[Aman]

Kane is the only one of the big 4 to win a world championship as captain.

That too is the hardest route given India, Aus and England are all better positioned to win world titles.

Without question the best captain of his generation.

 

[street cricketer]

Kane is the only one of the big 4 to win a world championship as captain.

That too is the hardest route given India, Aus and England are all better positioned to win world titles.

Without question the best captain of his generation.

I don't doubt Kane as the best captain of the fab 4. Kohli is a choker and is notorious for making dumb selection picks, Smith was known for being a very simple captain and obviously the sandpaper gate and Root is not an inspiring captain in anyway. Kane by bringing the Kiwis to the final of the World cup (which they won but for a silly rule) and won an another ICC title in test cricket, he is unarguably the best leader of the 4.

But regarding the bolded part, how did NZ have the hardest route to winning the trophy? Don't get me wrong, NZ beat India fair and square in the final. But it's also true that NZ had the easiest schedule out of all the other teams in the cycle. I don't blame NZ particularly for it, every team has an easy schedule every cycle (Pak has a very easy schedule this cycle) and it just so happened that NZ had a easy match up in the first cycle. Australia had to play England away in the Ashes while India had to play both Australia and NZ away. England had to play SA and India away. As far as I know, NZ didn't have any tough overseas tours and they fully capitalised on the home schedule.

Also the venue of the final, England is the closest in conditions to NZ out of all other venues in the world. The overcast conditions, constant rains and the swinging duke ball were of course right in the alley for the New Zealand team. Although it was technically a "neutral venue", it was literally like playing at home for the NZ team. Imagine NZ playing India in the final in a hot summer in Sri Lanka or the UAE with high heat baking up the wicket, losing the toss and asked to bowl first, that would be right up India's alley of conditions. The final had diametrically opposite conditions for India's strengths. And NZ went into the final with practice of playing two tests in advance in England. So everything fell in NZ's favour and it couldn't have asked for better conditions in a neutral venue for a final. Only England playing the final would have had more suitable conditions. Again, NZ won the final fair and square, but how did NZ have the hardest route to winning the championship?

 

[Aman]

I don't doubt Kane as the best captain of the fab 4. Kohli is a choker and is notorious for making dumb selection picks, Smith was known for being a very simple captain and obviously the sandpaper gate and Root is not an inspiring captain in anyway. Kane by bringing the Kiwis to the final of the World cup (which they won but for a silly rule) and won an another ICC title in test cricket, he is unarguably the best leader of the 4.

But regarding the bolded part, how did NZ have the hardest route to winning the trophy? Don't get me wrong, NZ beat India fair and square in the final. But it's also true that NZ had the easiest schedule out of all the other teams in the cycle. I don't blame NZ particularly for it, every team has an easy schedule every cycle (Pak has a very easy schedule this cycle) and it just so happened that NZ had a easy match up in the first cycle. Australia had to play England away in the Ashes while India had to play both Australia and NZ away. England had to play SA and India away. As far as I know, NZ didn't have any tough overseas tours and they fully capitalised on the home schedule.

Also the venue of the final, England is the closest in conditions to NZ out of all other venues in the world. The overcast conditions, constant rains and the swinging duke ball were of course right in the alley for the New Zealand team. Although it was technically a "neutral venue", it was literally like playing at home for the NZ team. Imagine NZ playing India in the final in a hot summer in Sri Lanka or the UAE with high heat baking up the wicket, losing the toss and asked to bowl first, that would be right up India's alley of conditions. The final had diametrically opposite conditions for India's strengths. And NZ went into the final with practice of playing two tests in advance in England. So everything fell in NZ's favour and it couldn't have asked for better conditions in a neutral venue for a final. Only England playing the final would have had more suitable conditions. Again, NZ won the final fair and square, but how did NZ have the hardest route to winning the championship?

Of the teams its hardest to win a world title for NZ, we had never won one before and we have a lot of disadvantages over those teams.

Aus, India and England are going to win world titles, a lot of Kiwis didn't think they'd see a world title win in their life times.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]

Perhaps I overestimated the mentality of New Zealand fans. After all, New Zealand is a small cricket team with fans who have a small-time mentality.

The players themselves would rather be nice losers and nasty winners. That is where they thrive.

Nevertheless, the genuine heavyweight teams (the big 3) will never put winning a WTC final against New Zealand over winning in each other’s homes. That will always be bigger than WTC.

please don't drown in your bowl of sour grapes

 

[Saksham]

Losing 6 consecutive ICC Knockout matches is an extremely poor record by all means. The fact is that Virat Kohli has been the Captain in 3 of those matches - 2017 CT, 2019 WC & 2021 WTC. The important aspect of all these games is that Indian Team lose their cool and buckle under pressure. In these 6 Knockout games India has lost to Sri Lanka, Australia, West Indies, Pakistan & New Zealand twice. If we look at the venues the games were played - Bangladesh, Australia, India & 3 times in England. Most importantly India has lost games in all 3 formats in different countries and against different teams. So this performance is not because of playing in a particular country, against a particular opponent or a particular format. This defeat against New Zealand in the Final once again proves New Zealand is too hot to handle for India in ICC Tournaments. Since 2000 India has won only 1 match against New Zealand in ICC Tournaments - 2003 WC Match against NZ in Centurion. New Zealand as a team has always punched above their weight in ICC Tournaments but have been unable to cross the line everytime. This is the Biggest Moment in the History of New Zealand Cricket till Date. New Zealand in Test Cricket in the previous decades was an extremely inconsistent team both home and away. Since the last few years and so this team is an absolute beast in home conditions. Beating NZ in NZ today is a very difficult achievement for any team right now. This tean under Kane Williamson has done extremely well away from home by winning in UAE against Pakistan, Drawing Series against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka, Winning in England against England & Winning the 1st WTC Final. This team has a very strong core group of players - Kane Williamson, Ross Taylor, Tom Latham, Henry Nicholls, BJ Watling, Tim Southee, Trent Boult and Neil Wagner. The addition of Kyle Jamieson & Devon Conway makes this a complete team in all aspects.

 

[Shazzam]

36 wins yet Kane is the one who won the most important and most significant Test match in history and is the one sitting with the world championship and immortality.

He'll forever be remembered as the first man to lift the mace like Clive Llyod and the ODI WC. He's written himself into cricket's history books forever. Burn baby burn.

Don’t see Test championship holding the same weight as World Cup. Test cricket is already on a decline. Outside of select few old timers no one will care who won this impactless one off. I agree with Mamoon here. Winning a Test series in Australia is more impactful than winning a one off Test match thats trying very hard to live up to old timers dreams.