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Do you agree with Imran Khan's decision to allow congregational worship in mosques?

Do you agree with Imran Khan's decision to allow congregational worship in mosques?


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A wise man and a great leader. Thankfully we dont have BBC news, Fox news readers running the country.

Pakistan has seen 212 deaths out of a population of 200 million.

Imran Khan realised very early on, more people will suffer from hunger and poverty than die from this virus.

There should never a full lock down in Pakistan, only those who are more at risk. Its foolish to force young , healthy men to stay in, not work, not go gym or mosque.

As long as they follow the points layed out by IK, this shouldn't be an issue.
 
A wise man and a great leader. Thankfully we dont have BBC news, Fox news readers running the country.

Pakistan has seen 212 deaths out of a population of 200 million.

Imran Khan realised very early on, more people will suffer from hunger and poverty than die from this virus.

There should never a full lock down in Pakistan, only those who are more at risk. Its foolish to force young , healthy men to stay in, not work, not go gym or mosque.

As long as they follow the points layed out by IK, this shouldn't be an issue.

While I am somewhat sympathetic towards government's decision here. This view point is actually not correct.

Most Pakistanis live in joint family system. These young healthy men go home and interact with the elderly, who are at very high risk.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Our report on BBC World, on fears Coronavirus will spread further in Pakistan during Ramadan as the Govt allows mosques to stay open... along with concerns the true number of cases is likely to be higher than officially recognised<br><br>w/ <a href="https://twitter.com/uszahid?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@uszahid</a> <a href="https://t.co/2q5E1XwLG1">pic.twitter.com/2q5E1XwLG1</a></p>— Secunder Kermani (@SecKermani) <a href="https://twitter.com/SecKermani/status/1252967586612076544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
While I am somewhat sympathetic towards government's decision here. This view point is actually not correct.

Most Pakistanis live in joint family system. These young healthy men go home and interact with the elderly, who are at very high risk.

The decision isn't to enforce people to go to mosques. Healthy young men who live with at risk parents/grandparents do not have to go to. Imran has pointed this out.

Have people even read his points on this?

Again 212 deaths from a population of 200m+. More people are dying of peanut allergies.
 
The decision isn't to enforce people to go to mosques. Healthy young men who live with at risk parents/grandparents do not have to go to. Imran has pointed this out.

Have people even read his points on this?

Again 212 deaths from a population of 200m+. More people are dying of peanut allergies.

I personally have already conveyed in this thread that I am overall sympathetic towards government's decision.

My post was specifically towards your comment:

"its foolish to force young , healthy men to stay in, not work, not go gym or mosque."

I dont think it is actually that foolish, considering the joint family system most people follow in Pakistan.
 
A wise man and a great leader. Thankfully we dont have BBC news, Fox news readers running the country.

Pakistan has seen 212 deaths out of a population of 200 million.

Imran Khan realised very early on, more people will suffer from hunger and poverty than die from this virus.

There should never a full lock down in Pakistan, only those who are more at risk. Its foolish to force young , healthy men to stay in, not work, not go gym or mosque.

As long as they follow the points layed out by IK, this shouldn't be an issue.

There is a slim chance of people following all the points that are laid out. Everyone praying 6 feet away from each other, wearing masks, not going near each other, not interacting with each other... In large mosques, how on earth can that be implemented? This is Pakistan, people aren't exactly known for their discipline if we're being honest. That's if one assumes that all these measures are enough to ensure that the virus doesn't spread.

The recommendation for people 50+ to stay at home is similarly hollow, it's just a recommendation and there's no way of ensuring its implementation; similar to the current recommendation to stay home amidst the lockdown, where people aren't listening and are going out in droves.

Everyone's happy that the number of deaths is relatively low so far but God forbid it begins to spread, it'll be tough to contain, especially if that happens with impoverished areas (where people are even more likely to be unaware of or disregard official advice). Such areas are densely populated which is also concerning.
 
I personally have already conveyed in this thread that I am overall sympathetic towards government's decision.

My post was specifically towards your comment:

"its foolish to force young , healthy men to stay in, not work, not go gym or mosque."

I dont think it is actually that foolish, considering the joint family system most people follow in Pakistan.

Not all young men live with elders even in Pakistan. Millions moved from villages to cities for work.
 
There is a slim chance of people following all the points that are laid out. Everyone praying 6 feet away from each other, wearing masks, not going near each other, not interacting with each other... In large mosques, how on earth can that be implemented? This is Pakistan, people aren't exactly known for their discipline if we're being honest. That's if one assumes that all these measures are enough to ensure that the virus doesn't spread.

The recommendation for people 50+ to stay at home is similarly hollow, it's just a recommendation and there's no way of ensuring its implementation; similar to the current recommendation to stay home amidst the lockdown, where people aren't listening and are going out in droves.

Everyone's happy that the number of deaths is relatively low so far but God forbid it begins to spread, it'll be tough to contain, especially if that happens with impoverished areas (where people are even more likely to be unaware of or disregard official advice). Such areas are densely populated which is also concerning.

There is ZERO chance of the police enfocring any lockdown of mosques.

212 People dying after 3 months shows this virus is being very much exaggurated in South Asia, it's not Europe.

You have a 35% more chance of dying from this virus if you have had the flu vaccine, Europeans have. Just one example of the difference.
 
There is ZERO chance of the police enfocring any lockdown of mosques.

212 People dying after 3 months shows this virus is being very much exaggurated in South Asia, it's not Europe.

You have a 35% more chance of dying from this virus if you have had the flu vaccine, Europeans have. Just one example of the difference.

Mosques being closed to the general public as they were previously with a few violations occurring is a far better scenario than having all mosques being open countrywide.

Around 2% of the cases in Pakistan so far have resulted in deaths.

If someone offered me 100 pieces of candy and assured me that two of them will result in death, I sure as hell would do all I can do avoid consuming a single one of them.

Again, it's great to see that the number of deaths is relatively low and I do hope it stays that way.
 
Mosques being closed to the general public as they were previously with a few violations occurring is a far better scenario than having all mosques being open countrywide.

Around 2% of the cases in Pakistan so far have resulted in deaths.

If someone offered me 100 pieces of candy and assured me that two of them will result in death, I sure as hell would do all I can do avoid consuming a single one of them.

Again, it's great to see that the number of deaths is relatively low and I do hope it stays that way.

Millions have been attending mosques in Pakistan since this was annoucned to the world, they haven't stopped and wont stop. What makes you think Pakistan is even capable of enforcing a countrywide no mosque lockdown? The police institution is only begining to form in some sort of proffesional manner.

Virus is not like candy, youngh healthy people can take 100 pieces and still live by eating all.

Again 212 deaths in 200 million people. Not even a 1000. Pakistan doesnt need to follow others blindly, it's an independent nation. Sweden has had no lockdown and things are working very well.
 

In UK, the police are behaving like this and people think somehow Pakistan police will be able to lockdown the country. lol
 
I just hope it doesn't take people dropping like flies before they come to their senses.

Unfortunately that is what is needed for this government to take action. Just like the awam they need a beatdown to realize they gotta do something.
 
Unfortunately that is what is needed for this government to take action. Just like the awam they need a beatdown to realize they gotta do something.

Chalo, what can you do? Muslims in Pakistan are religiously superior to the rest of the Ummah and this needs to be paraded to show them up.
 
Unfortunately that is what is needed for this government to take action. Just like the awam they need a beatdown to realize they gotta do something.

This isnt some barbaric age we live in pal.

Imagine if one of your elderly family members was out and police beat them down, you'd still support the beat downs?
 
Pakistani doctors urge government to reimpose mosque restrictions

Leading Pakistani doctors on Wednesday urged the government and clerics to reverse a decision to allow prayer congregations at mosques during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, warning that the spread of coronavirus could spiral out of control.

Pakistan on Saturday lifted precautionary restrictions on congregational prayers. The decision came three days after clerics said such limitations were not acceptable and after several incidents of clashes between police and worshippers.

Congregations increase in size during Ramadan, which is expected to begin on Friday in Pakistan.

“Unfortunately, our rulers have made a wrong decision; our clerics have shown a non-serious attitude,” Dr Qaiser Sajjad, secretary-general of the Pakistan Medical Association, told a news conference hastily convened by the doctors.

Pakistan, the world’s second most populous Muslim country after Indonesia, has reported more than 10,000 cases of the coronavirus, including 212 deaths. Both the government and experts say the peak for infections is expected to hit in May.

Last week, Pakistan extended a nationwide lockdown for two weeks, but eased restrictions on some activities, including key industrial production and mosques.

The doctors said a 20-point standard operating procedure for mosques agreed between the government and religious leaders was not practical or implementable

Another doctor at the news conference, Dr Saad Niaz, said coronavirus facilities in Karachi, Pakistan’s largest city, had already reached maximum capacity.

At this rate, Niaz added, medical facilities will face great difficulties in coming days and patients will have to be denied admission because there will be no beds.

In a statement distributed at the news conference, doctors called for strict enforcement of lockdowns, urging businesses to bear with the hardships for a few more weeks until the virus can be brought under control.

Prime Minister Imran Khan underwent a test for COVID-19, the respiratory illness caused by the coronavirus, on Wednesday after meeting an infected social worker last week. The result is not yet known.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-reimpose-mosque-restrictions-idUSKCN2242ZL
 
Millions have been attending mosques in Pakistan since this was annoucned to the world, they haven't stopped and wont stop. What makes you think Pakistan is even capable of enforcing a countrywide no mosque lockdown? The police institution is only begining to form in some sort of proffesional manner.

Virus is not like candy, youngh healthy people can take 100 pieces and still live by eating all.

Again 212 deaths in 200 million people. Not even a 1000. Pakistan doesnt need to follow others blindly, it's an independent nation. Sweden has had no lockdown and things are working very well.

sweden death rate compared to its population is very high. much higher than its neighbors and projected to sky rocket
 
His justification:


Prime Minister Imran Khan on Tuesday said that Pakistan is "an independent nation" while addressing a question regarding the government's decision to continue to keep mosques open even as Muslim countries around the world have decided to keep them closed in view of the coronavirus pandemic.

"I felt very bad when I saw police beating up people. Ramazan is a month of worship, people want to go to mosques.

"Do we forcefully tell them to not go to mosques? And if they go, will the police put worshippers in jail? This does not happen in an independent society. In an independent society [we] make people come together. In an independent society, people use their independent minds and then decide what is better for the country and what is not," the premier said.

He reiterated that the nation was "fighting against the coronavirus together". The prime minister also clarified that the government will be forced to review its decision if worshippers fail to follow the 20 guidelines agreed upon by religious scholars.

"I would urge people to pray at home but if you want to go to mosques, keep in mind that you will have to follow these 20 points," he said. "If [these points] are not followed and if this virus spreads through any mosque in Ramazan then we will have no choice — and this has been agreed upon — but to take action and close [the mosques]."

A very very similar debate is raging right now in the US.
In Pakistan the numbers are low but imagine this that a country like US, close to 50,000 dead are right now in the midst of a cold civil war between those who want the shutdown to continue and those who want it all open.

Those who want it all open have the same argument as PM Khan.
“We are a free country. Don’t tell us what to do. We will take necessary precautions when we go outside.”

That being said, in Pakistan... congregational prayers equal the highest tier of risk. Unlike America, where people want to go to work with gloves and masks, and parks and stores and hopefully with enough social distancing.

I don’t think either situation would work out though. But it’s quite obvious you can’t force people to do even the right thing in democracies.
 
Found a middle ground because people would insist on Ramazan congregations, says PM

Prime Minister Imran Khan has said that the government found a middle ground — in the form of a 20-point plan agreed with ulema on congregational prayers in Ramazan because "people would have insisted on congregations in Ramazan".

Responding to a question during the Ehsaas telethon, the premier said that the onus for ensuring that the standard operating procedures (SOPs) issued by the government for congregational prayers are followed would be on the ulema.
 
The decision to let prayers resume in mosques around the country isn't a very wise decision that IK chose.

He is currently sitting live doing a fund raiser and again he's saying that I'm giving the country and the people of Pakistan putting them responsible for this.

Why not him and his government take responsibility of this and make decisions that mosques will remain closed during this time. It comes across more like that we won't be responsible if they don't abide by what we have said and if this disease spreads more then we shouldn't be held accountable but those going to the mosques should be.

If in Makkah and Madina they have closed the places of worship then why can't Pakistan close their mosques for the time being until this crisis isn't over.

IK sounds like he doesn't want to implement any laws that would do so as after all he's in power and it's his government which can do so.

How many policies are still waiting for implementation and laws that should have been made and passed through since his government has been in power for nearly 2 years now but there haven't been enough laws for many things which he used to raise before being elected.

This isn't a rant about IK but I'm just trying to raise a point about implenteting laws that make sure people abide to it and places of worship should be one of them.
 
No, the maulvis have too much power and this is a mistake. These Maulvis are desperate for money and a package should have been announced for this month. Its IK 1st mistake in this crisis, IA it doesnt prove to be his biggest. I am worried.
 
There is ZERO chance of the police enfocring any lockdown of mosques.

212 People dying after 3 months shows this virus is being very much exaggurated in South Asia, it's not Europe.

You have a 35% more chance of dying from this virus if you have had the flu vaccine, Europeans have. Just one example of the difference.

Well said

The virus has been running free in Pakistan for 2 to 3 months, have we seen large scale infections yet?

One would think at all the people frothing at mosques being open, that the countries worst hit were all affected by people attending churches and mosques.
 
Nope.

Some might justify it by saying that IK avoided a conflict with the maulvis but that’s a risk you have to take.

We can’t afford such ridiculous stuff in a crisis like this.
 
Stay away from mosques if going there can lead to spread of coronavirus: Maulana Tariq Jameel

Renowned religious scholar Maulana Tariq Jameel has advised people to "stay away from mosques if going there can lead to the spread of [coronavirus]". He added that protection of one's life was also part of Islam.

Speaking during Prime Minister Imran Khan's Ehsaas telethon he urged people to "follow all preventive guidelines".
 
Imams Overrule Pakistan’s Coronavirus Lockdown as Ramadan Nears

While clerics and governments across the Muslim world will greet Ramadan this week under lockdown, working together to shut mosques and urging worshipers to pray at home, in Pakistan, some of the most prominent imams have rallied their devotees to ignore the anti-pandemic measures.

Ramadan, which begins this week, is the holy month in which Muslims crowd into mosques and fast all day, holding feasts after sundown with family and friends. Those are ripe conditions for the coronavirus to spread, and imams around the world are asking people to stay home.

But in Pakistan, pandemic or no pandemic, hard-line clerics are calling the shots, overriding the government’s nationwide virus lockdown, which began late last month.

Most clerics complied with the shutdown when it was announced. But some of the most influential ones immediately called on worshipers to attend Friday prayers in even greater numbers. Devotees attacked police officers who tried to get in their way.

As Ramadan drew closer, dozens of well-known clerics and leaders of religious parties — including some who had initially obeyed the lockdown orders — signed a letter demanding that the government exempt mosques from the shutdown during the holy month or invite the anger of God and the faithful.

On Saturday, the government gave in, signing an agreement that let mosques stay open for Ramadan as long as they followed 20 rules, including forcing congregants to maintain a six-foot distance, bring their own prayer mats and do their ablutions at home.

By the time Prime Minister Imran Khan met with the clerics on Monday, deferentially promising to abide by the deal, critics were demanding to know who was in charge during this national crisis: the government or the mosques?

“The state has become totally subservient to these clerics,” said Husnul Amin, an Islamabad-based professor and scholar on Islam and politics. “It is very difficult for the state to implement what’s best for the public good. The larger public interest is always up against the clerics. It’s completely undemocratic.”

Pakistan’s imams were empowered by the military during the 1980s, when mosques across the country churned out jihadists to fight the Soviet military in Afghanistan with the support of the United States.

While other countries tried to curb hard-line clerics’ influence after the Afghan war, recognizing the dangers they posed, in Pakistan, the powerful military continued to use them as tools of foreign and domestic policy.

But their defiance of the lockdown is exposing the limits of even the military’s control.

The military wanted the shutdown, pressuring Mr. Khan to back the measure at a time when he was reluctant and worried about the economic toll. But when the security forces tried to prevent worshipers from gathering at mosques for prayers, they found themselves under attack.

In Karachi, the largest city, scenes emerged of worshipers chasing the police through narrow alleyways, pelting them with rocks and sending several officers to the hospital.

“The military has created a monster they can no longer control,” Mr. Amin said. “They are the creation of the military, and only they could handle them. That may no longer be the case.”

By the time Ramadan approached, police officers said they were no longer willing to erect cordons around mosques to stop gatherings for prayers.

While clerics acknowledge that their mosques are perfect vectors for the coronavirus’s spread — worshipers gather to perform ablutions together before cramming into the mosques, shoulder to shoulder in supplication — they say they have to protect their bottom line: money and influence.

“We know the coronavirus pandemic is a global health issue, but religious duties cannot be abandoned,” said Maulana Ataullah Hazravi, a Karachi-based cleric.

And, he added, “mosques depend largely on the donations collected during Ramadan.”

That point — money — was high on the list of grievances that the clerics raised in their letter last week.

Worshipers open their wallets wide during Ramadan, donating millions of dollars. And in places like Pakistan, where mosques are not under the authority of the state, the money can make or break an imam and the followings they try to build, often to parlay into political power to challenge the government.

Pakistani clerics have frequently used their religious authority to get loyalists to lay siege to the capital, for example, forcing the state to change policies they disagree with.

That differs from countries like Egypt or the United Arab Emirates, where the authorities give clerics guidelines or even specific remarks for their Friday sermons.

“Clerics don’t want to lose their social and political control over society. They fear that if Muslims don’t come to the mosques, they will lose their power, their influence,” Mr. Amin said.

The clerics, observers said, may worry that if the government forces their mosques to close during Ramadan — using the pandemic, from their point of view, as a cover — it could provide an opening to finally bring them under the state’s authority.

An editorial in the prominent newspaper Dawn demanded that the clerical establishment take a back seat and let the government manage the crisis.

“This should not be seen as an affront to religion,” editors wrote last week. “Rather, it is an attempt to save the lives of the general public.”

But in private meetings with officials, clerics warned that the state would invite “God’s wrath” if it restricted prayers during Ramadan, Mr. Hazravi said — code for the political chaos that imams have unleashed in the past.

While the government has given in this time, health care workers have not. A group of prominent doctors signed their own open letter on Tuesday, urging that mosques be ordered to limit attendance to five worshipers at a time. On Wednesday, they doubled down on their warnings at a news conference.

By Wednesday evening, the virus had infected at least 10,100 in Pakistan and killed some 210 people, according to officials. Experts say that the true numbers are probably much higher and that the government is not testing enough.

The country’s bare-bones medical system, stretched during ordinary times to fight preventable diseases like polio and dengue, is now completely overwhelmed. Doctors and nurses have threatened to walk off the job unless given basic protective gear, like masks and gloves. Several have fallen ill with the virus and died.

“With Ramadan approaching,” the letter from the doctors read, “we fear that allowing large congregations in mosques will increase the likelihood of infection.”

But some of the faithful say they do not care about the science.

“Muslims wait for this month for the whole year so that they can earn maximum rewards from God by fasting and offering our prayers,” said Hazrat Ali, a worshiper in Karachi, where many mosques defied the lockdown from the start.

“If the government stops us forcibly from visiting the mosques, we will resist,” he said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/world/asia/pakistan-coronavirus-ramadan.html
 
sweden death rate compared to its population is very high. much higher than its neighbors and projected to sky rocket

The point was Sweden is using independent thinking, Pakistan should do the same.

More posts on this thread, but not a single person has explained to me why a nation which has less than 250 deaths is going into lockdown?
 
Well said

The virus has been running free in Pakistan for 2 to 3 months, have we seen large scale infections yet?

One would think at all the people frothing at mosques being open, that the countries worst hit were all affected by people attending churches and mosques.

Belarus's leader laughed off the threat 6/7 weeks ago(guess), so far there have been 60 deaths. More people have died of dodgy booze in the country.

If you country is not experiencing huge deaths, no point in having lockdown which will cause more deaths. Simple logic tbh but some on here are brainwashed by their western media then go on to believe they know better than those in Pakistan, because the white man has to be smarter.
 
Sindh govt restricts Taraweeh prayer congregations in mosques

Sindh Chief Minister Murad Ali Shah has announced that the residents of Sindh will not be allowed to offer congregational Tareweeh prayers in mosques during Ramazan, which is beginning on Saturday.

The Taraweeh prayers will be limited to 3-5 people from the mosque administration, he said in a video message.

Shah said this "very difficult" decision was taken after consultation with doctors and President Arif Alvi.
 
Belarus's leader laughed off the threat 6/7 weeks ago(guess), so far there have been 60 deaths. More people have died of dodgy booze in the country.

If you country is not experiencing huge deaths, no point in having lockdown which will cause more deaths. Simple logic tbh but some on here are brainwashed by their western media then go on to believe they know better than those in Pakistan, because the white man has to be smarter.

I don’t think you are thinking it through before posting.

Forget mortality rate or even keep aside something threatening like coronavirus for a second, let’s take a more simple disease, let’s say 20000 people get something as minor as a stomach flu or normal fever at once , do you know how much pressure that puts on the health system especially in a country like Pakistan?

Where will you get the amount of medicinal supply, doctors and hospital facilities?

Do you see how the numbers are growing all over the world? Deaths are obviously a matter of concern but just the whole diagnosis, treatment, monitoring etc itself of breaking backs of the government.

Use some common sense
 
I don’t think you are thinking it through before posting.

Forget mortality rate or even keep aside something threatening like coronavirus for a second, let’s take a more simple disease, let’s say 20000 people get something as minor as a stomach flu or normal fever at once , do you know how much pressure that puts on the health system especially in a country like Pakistan?

Where will you get the amount of medicinal supply, doctors and hospital facilities?

Do you see how the numbers are growing all over the world? Deaths are obviously a matter of concern but just the whole diagnosis, treatment, monitoring etc itself of breaking backs of the government.

Use some common sense

Its Pakistan there is already pressure , its a poor country. Unless you pay for your healthcare you often die ,the poor die daily.

Dying of Covid19 is no worse than dying of hunger or other hundreds of illnesses in Pakistan.

I am thinking it through like IK has. Most are brainwashed by western media who have their own agenda.

Thankfully Pakistan has a leader with brains not like those on here calling for a lockdown with 14 more deaths today. Fools.
 
There is no doubt about the fact that this is an unprecedented event (there have been pandemics before but things were a lot different then and the usual response was to let them burn through the population until herd immunity was attained) and there is perhaps no right or wrong response. Governments will fail and face criticism regardless of whatever they do and the masses, forever unaware of the dangers facing them, will clamor to be given the freedoms they are used to, especially in democracies.

But none of that absolves governments and leaders from taking difficult and more importantly timely decisions that might cut down losses, if not eliminate them completely. And that is where Imran Khan's leadership has left a lot to be desired. He has done a lot of good things but at the same time he has waffled and dithered when it comes to hard decisions like this one. Its fine that he probably doesn't have the political power/will to enforce such a lockdown and has admitted the limits of his own power by saying he can't stop people from going to the mosques but he could have at least stated in clear terms what the potential consequences of this could be so that everyone knows that the leader does not in principle agree with it. Instead he keeps trying to play both sides, at once agreeing with mullahs and then saying congregations will be banned if guidelines are not followed. If that is the case, the Lal Masjid should have been closed down three weeks ago.

You really don't have to be a genius to figure out how this could lead to a disaster. In Ramzan almost all mosques in Pakistan operate at their capacity. Even daily prayers see traffic a few times higher than in normal days. Add the extended taraweeh session and you are potentially exposing huge groups of people to each other five times every day. Social distancing is a pipe dream in such situations as almost all mosques are operating at capacity at this time. Since all these proposed steps are voluntary there is no way to turn back extra people and there is no way to filter old and sick people. Youngsters will still loiter and gather at the back of the congregations and outside the mosques, and in many areas there will still be group iftars. More dangerously, knowing our people this leniency will also lead people to engage in a variety of other activities. A person who goes out for prayers five times will not necessarily limit himself to just going to the mosque. Further, prayers in Ramzan generate their own economic activity. You will often see street vendors setting up shop outside or near mosques and beggars gathering in numbers for alms.

There might have been some justification to this had there been some valid religious reasons or if the other Muslim countries in the world had also kept mosques open. Instead, almost all of them are doing the opposite and there exist religious basis for discontinuing congregations. In such a situation, this is just a show of political power from the mullahs and powerlessness on the part of the government.
 
Its Pakistan there is already pressure , its a poor country. Unless you pay for your healthcare you often die ,the poor die daily.

Dying of Covid19 is no worse than dying of hunger or other hundreds of illnesses in Pakistan.

I am thinking it through like IK has. Most are brainwashed by western media who have their own agenda.

Thankfully Pakistan has a leader with brains not like those on here calling for a lockdown with 14 more deaths today. Fools.

That is not true. Yes the poor struggle to get good healthcare but it is not as if they end up dropping dead in the streets in normal times. There are government hospitals that might not be top notch but still provide some level of care. And then there are charitable hospitals and other organizations that provide further support. These institutions together provide some healthcare to the poor masses of the country. But understandably they have limited resources. They can handle a few emergency cases every day but if you want them to handle hundreds of emergency cases at once they will obviously collapse. There must be a reason that the doctors are worried and demanding the government to enhance lockdowns as they are the ones who are on the frontline and know what is normal and what is not.

You keep on harping about only 250 deaths. Firstly is 250 only? Even if i agree that Pakistan is a harsh country and people will die regardless why should those 250 be dismissed as a mere statistic or even an achievement that should be lauded? Also the infections and consequently the number of deaths (not death rate) in Pakistan are low because we instituted early lockdowns. As for the death rate, that is an evolving number and can go either way as things develop over time.

If you really think Pakistan can afford to go down the herd immunity route like Sweden then you either don't understand Pakistan or mathematics or both. Just some numbers for your reference:

- Pakistan has one physician per 1000 people Sweden has 5.4 (how qualified all of them are is anyone's guess)
- Pakistan has 0.6 hospital beds per 1000 people Sweden has 2.6
- Pakistan has 0.5 nurses per 1000 people Sweden has 11.5
- Sweden's per capita GDP is more than 30 times Pakistan's
- Pakistan has a population density of 275 people/sq km and Sweden's is 25 (and these numbers will be way higher for urban centers in Pakistan)

(Source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.CMHW.P3)

I don't think I even need to quote the respective literacy and poverty numbers here.

Presently Sweden has 1659 cases per million (source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries) whereas Pakistan has just 50. If we assume a herd immunity strategy in Pakistan will result in the same rate of infection (despite the widespread poverty and illiteracy and population density ) that would imply roughly 332,000 cases. Even if we take your 2% death rate that would mean roughly 6,500 deaths. And that would not even be the peak.

We really don't know how long this pandemic will last. For all we know this could just be the start of a long drawn fight. Even if it is not why not err on the side of caution? Deaths are not mere statistics.250 is nothing in the context of our population but consider how even one death in the context of a family can be the end of their world. Every life counts and 250 is not an achievement in any sense. Yes its lower than what we expected but that is no reason for rejoicing or for lowering our guard. I empathize with the common man who is struggling to put bread on his table but it is the same common man who will become a statistic if Pakistan becomes a charnel house. Regardless i would support relaxation in the lockdown for economic reasons but there is no reason why mosques need to be opened when people can pray at home. We have to handle this issue intelligently and I can see no reason how the decision to open mosques is a smart one.
 
That is not true. Yes the poor struggle to get good healthcare but it is not as if they end up dropping dead in the streets in normal times. There are government hospitals that might not be top notch but still provide some level of care. And then there are charitable hospitals and other organizations that provide further support. These institutions together provide some healthcare to the poor masses of the country. But understandably they have limited resources. They can handle a few emergency cases every day but if you want them to handle hundreds of emergency cases at once they will obviously collapse. There must be a reason that the doctors are worried and demanding the government to enhance lockdowns as they are the ones who are on the frontline and know what is normal and what is not.

You keep on harping about only 250 deaths. Firstly is 250 only? Even if i agree that Pakistan is a harsh country and people will die regardless why should those 250 be dismissed as a mere statistic or even an achievement that should be lauded? Also the infections and consequently the number of deaths (not death rate) in Pakistan are low because we instituted early lockdowns. As for the death rate, that is an evolving number and can go either way as things develop over time.

If you really think Pakistan can afford to go down the herd immunity route like Sweden then you either don't understand Pakistan or mathematics or both. Just some numbers for your reference:

- Pakistan has one physician per 1000 people Sweden has 5.4 (how qualified all of them are is anyone's guess)
- Pakistan has 0.6 hospital beds per 1000 people Sweden has 2.6
- Pakistan has 0.5 nurses per 1000 people Sweden has 11.5
- Sweden's per capita GDP is more than 30 times Pakistan's
- Pakistan has a population density of 275 people/sq km and Sweden's is 25 (and these numbers will be way higher for urban centers in Pakistan)

(Source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.CMHW.P3)

I don't think I even need to quote the respective literacy and poverty numbers here.

Presently Sweden has 1659 cases per million (source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries) whereas Pakistan has just 50. If we assume a herd immunity strategy in Pakistan will result in the same rate of infection (despite the widespread poverty and illiteracy and population density ) that would imply roughly 332,000 cases. Even if we take your 2% death rate that would mean roughly 6,500 deaths. And that would not even be the peak.

We really don't know how long this pandemic will last. For all we know this could just be the start of a long drawn fight. Even if it is not why not err on the side of caution? Deaths are not mere statistics.250 is nothing in the context of our population but consider how even one death in the context of a family can be the end of their world. Every life counts and 250 is not an achievement in any sense. Yes its lower than what we expected but that is no reason for rejoicing or for lowering our guard. I empathize with the common man who is struggling to put bread on his table but it is the same common man who will become a statistic if Pakistan becomes a charnel house. Regardless i would support relaxation in the lockdown for economic reasons but there is no reason why mosques need to be opened when people can pray at home. We have to handle this issue intelligently and I can see no reason how the decision to open mosques is a smart one.

There is no real lockdown in Pakistan. I've spoke to various people in Pakistan from various cities and villages, people are staying in out of fear but mixing together out in public regulary. Thousands of mosques are still open across the country with people continuing as normal. Imran Khan has realised this and instead of publishing a policy ordering people to stay in and never go out, he understands this cannot be policed. A very important point which you have missed.

The poor I mentioned dying of HUNGER, which you have missed again. There is no welfare system in place in Pakistan, the poor dont work, they dont eat , they die. Sure some government and charity projects have been put into place but these are very minimul, ordinary people are helping others in Pakistan but this wont last.

The point of Sweden was independent thinking, not to compare which Ive made clear on this thread, again not reading properly.

250 deaths mean the crisis is not that of the Europe. If a poor country with poor hygiene, lack of medical facilities and medicine has this number, then logic will dictate the seriousness does not warrant suffering, stress, mental health, domestic violence and esp hunger.

Opening mosques with the points he gave is smart because of the points I listed.

Some people are just scared, they see whats happening in the west and automatically think because they live in a poorer nation it will be worse, no stats are confirming this or anywhee near Europes and US's pandemic will be the same for Pakistan.
 
Taraweeh prayer congregations held in numerous Karachi mosques in violation of govt orders: sources

Congregational Taraweeh prayers were held in at least 22 mosques in Karachi today, the eve of the first Ramazan, in violation of Sindh government's orders under which Taraweeh was restricted to 3-5 persons in view of rising Covid-19 cases, according to official sources and papers reviewed by Dawn.

Sources familiar with the development said that among the mosques where collective Friday and Taraweeh prayers took place, nine were in Malir district, five in South district, four in Korangi district, three in West district and one in East district.

This prompted the administration and police authorities to identify the areas where the violations took place, which included wealthy neighbourhoods in the DHA and poor localities in Orangi Town, and send a report to higher authorities for possible action against the violators.

A senior officer said that around 100 to 150 people offered Taraweeh in the said areas without observing social distancing. However, no arrests have taken place as yet, police sources said.
 
Taraweeh prayer congregations held in numerous Karachi mosques in violation of govt orders: sources

Congregational Taraweeh prayers were held in at least 22 mosques in Karachi today, the eve of the first Ramazan, in violation of Sindh government's orders under which Taraweeh was restricted to 3-5 persons in view of rising Covid-19 cases, according to official sources and papers reviewed by Dawn.

Sources familiar with the development said that among the mosques where collective Friday and Taraweeh prayers took place, nine were in Malir district, five in South district, four in Korangi district, three in West district and one in East district.

This prompted the administration and police authorities to identify the areas where the violations took place, which included wealthy neighbourhoods in the DHA and poor localities in Orangi Town, and send a report to higher authorities for possible action against the violators.

A senior officer said that around 100 to 150 people offered Taraweeh in the said areas without observing social distancing. However, no arrests have taken place as yet, police sources said.

It should be common sense that it's a lot more difficult to control if mosque visitors all over the country are really adhering to those 20 guidelines than to simply order a general closure of all mosques and punish those who try to violate it.

Pakistani are not known to follow rules and regulations and always look for loopholes and ways to undermine them. If you can't expect the population to strictly respect a ban on mosque visit how do you honestly expect that they will follow 20 complex regulations.
 
Minister dismayed at violation of social distancing in mosques

ISLAMABAD: Religious Affairs Minister Pir Noor-ul-Haq Qadri has expressed dismay over the attitude of clerics for not following social distancing in mosques in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic and warned that religious elements would get all the blame in case of failure in this regard.

The minister also expressed his displeasure over the announcement by Mufti Shahabuddin Popalzai of Qasim Ali Khan Mosque, Peshawar, of commencement of Ramazan a day ahead of official declaration.

Talking to the media after the inauguration of free meals at Pakistan Sweet Home here on Friday, Pir Qadri said if somebody had a solution it should be put forward so that the entire nat*ion could observe one Eid. But when reminded that it was a responsibility of the government, he said: “I can only pray that we see this wish come true in our lifetime.”

In reply to a question about violation of social distancing in mosques, the minister said the government had relaxed its earlier directive of presence of a maximum of five persons during congregational prayers inside mosques.

The government has taken a difficult and risky decision that we will not stop people from going to mosques for congregational prayers. Though there are conditions and procedures for collective prayers, now the responsibility lies on ulema to implement the agreement on 20-point standard operating procedures (SOPs),” he added.

Mr Qadri said ulema had to play a proactive role in implementing the SOPs related to routine prayers, Friday congregation and Taraweeh. “Nobody wants to close down mosques, but it will have to be done if there is a reason, and the clerics have to take certain responsibility, too,” he said, referring to the last point of the agreement reached with the clerics. It states that the government can review and change any part of its policy on mosques during Ramazan if these measures [20-point SOPs] are not being followed or the rise in (Covid-19) cases is exponential.

Lal Masjid

After several weeks of warnings, the government finally decided to stop all outsiders from going to Lal Masjid for payers on Friday.

The Islamabad police and ICT administration erected tent walls around Lal Masjid in the morning and did not allow anybody to enter the mosque.

A large number of female students belonging to Jamia Hafsa were called a day earlier to stay at the mosque to counter any police action.

Maulana Abdul Aziz, the renegade cleric, had been openly challenging the precautionary directives and denounced the government’s advice for social distancing. The Maulana not only invited his followers to the mosque for a big congregation, but also shared footage of him mixing with the participants in defiance of the advice for social distancing.

Several cases have been filed against him for violating Section 144 of the Criminal Procedure Code and against his bodyguards for displaying weapons during the past four weeks.

Meanwhile, the Pakistan Ulema Council (PUC) and Darul Afta Pakistan app*ealed to people to follow preventive measures of social distancing during Taraweeh.

“While we have to take the medical advice seriously and avoid going to the mosques as much as possible, but it is preferred to observe Taraweeh at home,” PUC chairman Hafiz Tahir Ashrafi said after a meeting of the council.

He said such measures were in accordance with Sharia and had been taken in Makkah and Madina, too, adding that those resisting such precautions were in self-deception.

Allama Raja Nasir Abbas, central secretary general of Majlis Wahdatul Muslimeen Pakistan, said in a statement that protecting the country and nation and getting rid of the epidemic were a religious responsibility. He said people should not take any emotional decision and medically advised precautionary measures had to be observed during prayers and other religious events and processions.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1552042/minister-dismayed-at-violation-of-social-distancing-in-mosques
 
Fighting a losing battle am afraid, Imran is.
 
Fighting a losing battle am afraid, Imran is.

Yes and decisions like this dont help. Tje whole world is losing a losing battle until a vaccine is made and manufactured at a global scale.

In Pakistan's case, people just don't listen and their arragonce will unfortunately be their downfall.
 
There is no real lockdown in Pakistan. I've spoke to various people in Pakistan from various cities and villages, people are staying in out of fear but mixing together out in public regulary. Thousands of mosques are still open across the country with people continuing as normal. Imran Khan has realised this and instead of publishing a policy ordering people to stay in and never go out, he understands this cannot be policed. A very important point which you have missed.

The poor I mentioned dying of HUNGER, which you have missed again. There is no welfare system in place in Pakistan, the poor dont work, they dont eat , they die. Sure some government and charity projects have been put into place but these are very minimul, ordinary people are helping others in Pakistan but this wont last.

The point of Sweden was independent thinking, not to compare which Ive made clear on this thread, again not reading properly.

250 deaths mean the crisis is not that of the Europe. If a poor country with poor hygiene, lack of medical facilities and medicine has this number, then logic will dictate the seriousness does not warrant suffering, stress, mental health, domestic violence and esp hunger.

Opening mosques with the points he gave is smart because of the points I listed.

Some people are just scared, they see whats happening in the west and automatically think because they live in a poorer nation it will be worse, no stats are confirming this or anywhee near Europes and US's pandemic will be the same for Pakistan.

Disagree. I live in Karachi and I can tell you that while activity has increased lately it is still at around 20-30% of what it normally is and it is pretty much the same in other major cities (can't say for sure about rural areas). The main pastimes of people in Pakistan are going to malls and bazaars or eating out and all that is closed. Add the fact that all schools, most offices and businesses are closed and I really can't understand how you can say that we are not in lockdown. Yes it is not 100% and it never can be in Pakistan but its almost 70-80% closure. Yet we have 11,000 confirmed cases with a local transmission rate of more than 75%. Just imagine what would happen if we open up everything. I agree that it is very difficult to enforce mosque closures but that doesn't mean that you give up totally and yield to the mullahs. Sindh has put a ban on taraweehs. it is too early to say how effective that will be but at least an order has been issued and we can judge its effectiveness in a few days.

The post by you that I quoted, talked about people dying of lack of healthcare because they couldn't pay and not because of hunger. Also I never said that businesses shouldn't be reopened, I said there was no need for mosques to be reopened and I can't understand how opening mosques will alleviate hunger.

I really can't understand what "independent thinking like Sweden" would imply other than adopting herd immunity as that along with solutions involving lockdowns are the only two known approaches to tackling this issue. But I would be happy to listen to you explain it further.

There is absolutely no way to ascertain what stage of outbreak Pakistan is in currently. For all we know this is just the start. Also the limited number of deaths can be attributed largely to the restrictions and not to Pakistani's being immune or some other such unverifiable fact. In such a case easing restrictions can lead to a much worse situation. And that is something that the majority of the doctors are saying, not me. Also let's not talk about logic because that would surely dictate that people pray at home.
 
Every life counts and 250 is not an achievement in any sense. Yes its lower than what we expected but that is no reason for rejoicing or for lowering our guard. I empathize with the common man who is struggling to put bread on his table but it is the same common man who will become a statistic if Pakistan becomes a charnel house.

I read somewhere that in Pakistan, 80% of deaths are people who are above 75?

And if you calculate all the people who will die as a result of increased poverty, then maybe the number will be much above 250?

In many countries, all cancer screenings and biopsies are stopped. So many more lives may be lost to not detecting cancer early on because of the lockdown
 
I read somewhere that in Pakistan, 80% of deaths are people who are above 75?

And if you calculate all the people who will die as a result of increased poverty, then maybe the number will be much above 250?

In many countries, all cancer screenings and biopsies are stopped. So many more lives may be lost to not detecting cancer early on because of the lockdown

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The Pakistan Islamic Medical Association (PIMA) warned that mosques are becoming a major source of virus transmission and urged people to offer prayers at home. The statement came as the nation-wide tally for reported coronavirus cases surge past 12,000 and is expected to climb up exponentially in the coming months.

Addressing a press conference in Islamabad on Saturday, PIMA President Dr Iftikhar Burney apprised that the coronavirus cases have increased dramatically during the past week and are expected to further go up in the coming months of May and June.

“One week ago, around 6,000 cases for coronavirus surfaced in a month,” he said, adding that the number of patients has doubled in the last six days.

The president went on to say that the numbers are way higher than they are projected and maintained that it is not ethical to hide facts from people.

Expressing concerns over the rapid penetration of virus among health professionals, Burney said that a large number of doctors including paramedics have been diagnosed with coronavirus during the past week.

“At present, more than 200 medical staff, including 100 doctors, have tested coronavirus positive,” he regretted.

Debunking the myths that the occurrence of coronavirus is relatively low in Pakistan, the PIMA president said: “We think we are loved by God and therefore epidemics will not reach us, however, such fallacies should be dispelled and the severity of the disease should not be undermined, especially under these critical circumstances.”

“Our government initially took an effective step by sending the country into a strict lockdown. Consequently, the disease did not get worse in the beginning,” the president noted, adding that ‘smart lockdowns’ are not operative for countries like Pakistan.

“We will not be able to keep people inside their homes under a smart lockdown for a longer period of time,” he warned, lamenting that there is no definitive cure for the disease, and on the other hand, hospitals are running out of facilities.

While referring to the concerns of the business community, Burney advised that the traders should show perseverance and shouldn’t pressurise the authorities for easing lockdowns.

While calling for a stricter imposition of lockdown in the coming weeks, Burney stated that the disease has reached alarming levels and would cause further complexities if measures are not implemented on time.

‘Action will be taken if Sops not followed in mosques’

Earlier this week, Prime Minister Imran Khan had said that action will be taken if the 20-point agreement regarding safety precautions and mosques' SOPs between the government and ulema are not implemented by people in Ramadan.

While updating masses on the latest situation regarding the coronavirus with his ministers and advisors, PM Imran had said that Pakistan was an "independent nation" hence it could not force worshippers to not pray in mosques.

"The war for coronavirus is being fought by the entire country. It [coronavirus] will not differentiate between the rich and the poor. It can happen to anyone," he said. "If we deploy police outside mosques and throw worshippers in prisons, independent nations do not behave like this," he added.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/284917-mo...on-pima-urges-people-to-offer-prayers-at-home
 
Imran Khan with his ineptness has send Pakistanis on a suicide mission in the month of Ramadan.
 
80pc mosques in Punjab violate govt-Ulema agreement on Taraweeh: report

ISLAMABAD: A survey has shown that more than 80pc of mosques in Punjab and the federal capital did not implement the agreement reached between the government and Ulema regarding the first Taraweeh congregations on Friday.

The survey, conducted by the Pattan Development Organisation, used a standardised checklist that consisted of four of the 20 points of the agreement.

These are that Taraweeh should not be conducted on roads and footpaths, there should be a six feet distance between worshippers on all four sides, people should not do ablution in mosques and they should wear face masks while coming to mosques.

As many as 40 observers were deployed to conduct the survey and each visited four to five mosques during Taraweeh prayers on April 24.

The report said: “Violation of the agreement is highly likely to continue in coming days unless the government takes stern action against the violators.”

The surveyors observed 194 mosques in 15 cities and towns and photographed the violations.

The data released by the NGO showed that in 96pc of the observed mosques people were found praying on pavements and roads and nearly 89pc of the worshippers did not wear face masks.

Besides, in 72pc and 69pc of the observed mosques, the worshippers did not maintain the 6ft distance and were found doing ablution in the mosques.

In the few mosques where some distance was maintained, this did not amount to 6ft. Photos clearly established massive violation of the important mitigation measure.

In more than two-thirds of the observed mosques, children were also found alongside their elders.

The observation was made in Islamabad, Lahore, Faisalabad, Kamalia, Jhang, Layyah, Multan, Toba Tek Singh, Muzaffargarh, Dera Ghazi Khan, Taunsa, Shorkot, Kot Addu and Alipur.

The report said local administration and police warned khateebs and imams about the instructions, “but it appears that police did not bother to carry out the practice in remote areas and congested neighbourhoods.”

While the compliance level was better in bigger and central mosques mainly due to fears of surveillance, “this does not mean that these mosques are less likely to spread the virus,” said the NGO.

It has been suggested that with sufficient evidence available the government should make places of congregations safe for the citizens.

The report demanded the government and health authorities disinfect mosques on a daily basis as it was highly likely that the virus would be carried by worshippers to their homes and communities.

Pattan said the situation was very dangerous and 100pc implementation of the agreement was not possible.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1552273/8...olate-govt-ulema-agreement-on-taraweeh-report
 
80pc mosques in Punjab violate govt-Ulema agreement on Taraweeh: report

ISLAMABAD: A survey has shown that more than 80pc of mosques in Punjab and the federal capital did not implement the agreement reached between the government and Ulema regarding the first Taraweeh congregations on Friday.

The survey, conducted by the Pattan Development Organisation, used a standardised checklist that consisted of four of the 20 points of the agreement.

These are that Taraweeh should not be conducted on roads and footpaths, there should be a six feet distance between worshippers on all four sides, people should not do ablution in mosques and they should wear face masks while coming to mosques.

As many as 40 observers were deployed to conduct the survey and each visited four to five mosques during Taraweeh prayers on April 24.

The report said: “Violation of the agreement is highly likely to continue in coming days unless the government takes stern action against the violators.”

The surveyors observed 194 mosques in 15 cities and towns and photographed the violations.

The data released by the NGO showed that in 96pc of the observed mosques people were found praying on pavements and roads and nearly 89pc of the worshippers did not wear face masks.

Besides, in 72pc and 69pc of the observed mosques, the worshippers did not maintain the 6ft distance and were found doing ablution in the mosques.

In the few mosques where some distance was maintained, this did not amount to 6ft. Photos clearly established massive violation of the important mitigation measure.

In more than two-thirds of the observed mosques, children were also found alongside their elders.

The observation was made in Islamabad, Lahore, Faisalabad, Kamalia, Jhang, Layyah, Multan, Toba Tek Singh, Muzaffargarh, Dera Ghazi Khan, Taunsa, Shorkot, Kot Addu and Alipur.

The report said local administration and police warned khateebs and imams about the instructions, “but it appears that police did not bother to carry out the practice in remote areas and congested neighbourhoods.”

While the compliance level was better in bigger and central mosques mainly due to fears of surveillance, “this does not mean that these mosques are less likely to spread the virus,” said the NGO.

It has been suggested that with sufficient evidence available the government should make places of congregations safe for the citizens.

The report demanded the government and health authorities disinfect mosques on a daily basis as it was highly likely that the virus would be carried by worshippers to their homes and communities.

Pattan said the situation was very dangerous and 100pc implementation of the agreement was not possible.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1552273/8...olate-govt-ulema-agreement-on-taraweeh-report
 
80pc mosques in Punjab violate govt-Ulema agreement on Taraweeh: report

ISLAMABAD: A survey has shown that more than 80pc of mosques in Punjab and the federal capital did not implement the agreement reached between the government and Ulema regarding the first Taraweeh congregations on Friday.

The survey, conducted by the Pattan Development Organisation, used a standardised checklist that consisted of four of the 20 points of the agreement.

These are that Taraweeh should not be conducted on roads and footpaths, there should be a six feet distance between worshippers on all four sides, people should not do ablution in mosques and they should wear face masks while coming to mosques.

As many as 40 observers were deployed to conduct the survey and each visited four to five mosques during Taraweeh prayers on April 24.

The report said: “Violation of the agreement is highly likely to continue in coming days unless the government takes stern action against the violators.”

The surveyors observed 194 mosques in 15 cities and towns and photographed the violations.

The data released by the NGO showed that in 96pc of the observed mosques people were found praying on pavements and roads and nearly 89pc of the worshippers did not wear face masks.

Besides, in 72pc and 69pc of the observed mosques, the worshippers did not maintain the 6ft distance and were found doing ablution in the mosques.

In the few mosques where some distance was maintained, this did not amount to 6ft. Photos clearly established massive violation of the important mitigation measure.

In more than two-thirds of the observed mosques, children were also found alongside their elders.

The observation was made in Islamabad, Lahore, Faisalabad, Kamalia, Jhang, Layyah, Multan, Toba Tek Singh, Muzaffargarh, Dera Ghazi Khan, Taunsa, Shorkot, Kot Addu and Alipur.

The report said local administration and police warned khateebs and imams about the instructions, “but it appears that police did not bother to carry out the practice in remote areas and congested neighbourhoods.”

While the compliance level was better in bigger and central mosques mainly due to fears of surveillance, “this does not mean that these mosques are less likely to spread the virus,” said the NGO.

It has been suggested that with sufficient evidence available the government should make places of congregations safe for the citizens.

The report demanded the government and health authorities disinfect mosques on a daily basis as it was highly likely that the virus would be carried by worshippers to their homes and communities.

Pattan said the situation was very dangerous and 100pc implementation of the agreement was not possible.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1552273/8...olate-govt-ulema-agreement-on-taraweeh-report

This is it, i don’t understand how the govt can claim to be doing everything to control the virus after allowing these mullahs to run things as they like. Might as well remove all restrictions, open up the businesses & let some people die till the entire population gets herd immunity.

IK is turning out to be another weak leader who cannot stand up to the Mullah Tribe nor the military. He has shown he cannot take the right tough calls needed in a country like Pakistan. The only people who can stand up to these uneducated mullahs is the military - so here’s hoping they manage to control things before they go absolutely haywire.
 
80pc mosques in Punjab violate govt-Ulema agreement on Taraweeh: report

ISLAMABAD: A survey has shown that more than 80pc of mosques in Punjab and the federal capital did not implement the agreement reached between the government and Ulema regarding the first Taraweeh congregations on Friday.

The survey, conducted by the Pattan Development Organisation, used a standardised checklist that consisted of four of the 20 points of the agreement.

These are that Taraweeh should not be conducted on roads and footpaths, there should be a six feet distance between worshippers on all four sides, people should not do ablution in mosques and they should wear face masks while coming to mosques.

As many as 40 observers were deployed to conduct the survey and each visited four to five mosques during Taraweeh prayers on April 24.

The report said: “Violation of the agreement is highly likely to continue in coming days unless the government takes stern action against the violators.”

The surveyors observed 194 mosques in 15 cities and towns and photographed the violations.

The data released by the NGO showed that in 96pc of the observed mosques people were found praying on pavements and roads and nearly 89pc of the worshippers did not wear face masks.

Besides, in 72pc and 69pc of the observed mosques, the worshippers did not maintain the 6ft distance and were found doing ablution in the mosques.

In the few mosques where some distance was maintained, this did not amount to 6ft. Photos clearly established massive violation of the important mitigation measure.

In more than two-thirds of the observed mosques, children were also found alongside their elders.

The observation was made in Islamabad, Lahore, Faisalabad, Kamalia, Jhang, Layyah, Multan, Toba Tek Singh, Muzaffargarh, Dera Ghazi Khan, Taunsa, Shorkot, Kot Addu and Alipur.

The report said local administration and police warned khateebs and imams about the instructions, “but it appears that police did not bother to carry out the practice in remote areas and congested neighbourhoods.”

While the compliance level was better in bigger and central mosques mainly due to fears of surveillance, “this does not mean that these mosques are less likely to spread the virus,” said the NGO.

It has been suggested that with sufficient evidence available the government should make places of congregations safe for the citizens.

The report demanded the government and health authorities disinfect mosques on a daily basis as it was highly likely that the virus would be carried by worshippers to their homes and communities.

Pattan said the situation was very dangerous and 100pc implementation of the agreement was not possible.

Surprise, surpise...

This is it, i don’t understand how the govt can claim to be doing everything to control the virus after allowing these mullahs to run things as they like. Might as well remove all restrictions, open up the businesses & let some people die till the entire population gets herd immunity.

IK is turning out to be another weak leader who cannot stand up to the Mullah Tribe nor the military. He has shown he cannot take the right tough calls needed in a country like Pakistan. The only people who can stand up to these uneducated mullahs is the military - so here’s hoping they manage to control things before they go absolutely haywire.

They're actually allies hence why the mullahs have free reign to run amok.
 
FT- Pakistan’s Imran Khan sidelined by military during coronavirus outbreak

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/686714d7-ae05-431d-a13d-1966153be151


Imran Khan has been sidelined by Pakistan’s powerful military after failing to act decisively on the coronavirus crisis or impose a lockdown in an attempt to curb the spread of cases.

On March 22, the prime minister told the nation that his government would not institute a sweeping lockdown, arguing it would put millions out of work and leave families struggling to find enough food to eat.

But less than 24 hours later, military spokesman Major General Babar Iftikhar announced that the army would oversee a shutdown to halt the spread of infections in the world’s fifth most populous country of more than 200m people.

Since then, the military has deployed troops across Pakistan and has been orchestrating the coronavirus response through the National Core Committee, a body set up to co-ordinate policy between federal and provincial governments.

The generals have seized the Covid-19 crisis as an opportunity to prove their competency in contrast to Mr Khan, who was ridiculed after urging youth to join the Corona Relief Tigers Force, a volunteer body to wage “jihad” against the pandemic.

“The government left a big gap in its handling of the coronavirus. The army has tried to fill that gap, there was no choice,” said a retired general.

The military’s takeover of the coronavirus response marks another policy failure for Mr Khan in the eyes of the generals, say analysts. He has struggled to generate international traction in finding a solution to the Kashmir problem and has been unable to convince an international watchdog to remove Pakistan from its greylist for terrorism financing.

Now his vital relationship with the military, which backed his run for office in 2018, has frayed.

“In times of emergency, one has to take clear decisions and take them through. You can’t dither,” said Nafisa Shah, a member of parliament from the opposition Pakistan Peoples party (PPP). “The whole world is advising strong lockdown. If the prime minister does not show that he is decisive, somebody else will.”

Coronavirus has shown the disconnect between the national government, regional governments and the military

Sajjan Gohel, south Asia expert
Pakistan has reported more than 11,000 cases of Covid-19 and 237 deaths, but with tens of millions of people living in poverty and a dilapidated healthcare system, the impact of the virus could be catastrophic. Experts are concerned the country’s low testing rates may be concealing the true number of infections.

Across the country, doctors and nurses have protested against a lack of personal protective equipment as increasing numbers of health professionals contract Covid-19.

“Because of the lack of resources there is chaos among the doctors and healthcare workers. They know people are dying, they know the severity of the illness and they have to work without PPE,” said Shoaib Hasan Tarar, a doctor working in Rawalpindi.

The health crisis is pummelling the already sputtering Pakistan economy. According to the IMF, gross domestic product will shrink 1.5 per cent in 2020. The country is set to be the first major emerging economy to apply to a G20 initiative to request debt repayment relief.

Even after the lockdown was announced, Mr Khan repeatedly questioned whether it was necessary, sowing confusion about the country’s response as infections rose sharply.

Maleeha Lodhi, Pakistan’s former ambassador to the UK, US and the UN, wrote in a newspaper editorial that “procrastination over measures aimed at social distancing continued to send conflicting messages. Getting mired in a prolonged public argument about lockdown vs no lockdown conveyed an impression of indecisiveness.”

The country suffered a surge in cases in early March when infected pilgrims and workers crossed the border from the religious city of Qom in Iran, a virus hotspot.

Pakistan’s limited resources were exposed when quarantined pilgrims protested against filthy conditions at Taftan camp on the Iran border, where they were living five people to a tent with no access to toilets.

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It was only weeks later that Pakistan finally started putting tougher measures in place. But fears are mounting that it will not be enough to curb a surge in cases as authorities confront hardline imams downplaying the threat of the virus.

Every week during Friday prayers, tens of thousands of Muslims have been eschewing social distancing recommendations and defy orders that prohibit religious congregations of five or more people.

Islamabad last week signed an agreement to allows for mosques to stay open for Ramadan, stipulating that people must follow 20 rules, including maintaining a 6ft distance from each other.

“There is little consistency in terms of how the lockdown is being approached. Coronavirus has shown the disconnect between the national government, regional governments and the military,” said Sajjan Gohel, south Asia expert and guest teacher at the London School of Economics.

“Imran Khan has been left behind as the cheerleader for keeping Pakistan’s morale high. I think people are starting to ask, ‘How long is he going to last?’”
 
Imran Khan has been sidelined by Pakistan’s powerful military after failing to act decisively on the coronavirus crisis or impose a lockdown in an attempt to curb the spread of cases.

On March 22, the prime minister told the nation that his government would not institute a sweeping lockdown, arguing it would put millions out of work and leave families struggling to find enough food to eat.

But less than 24 hours later, military spokesman Major General Babar Iftikhar announced that the army would oversee a shutdown to halt the spread of infections in the world’s fifth most populous country of more than 200m people.

Since then, the military has deployed troops across Pakistan and has been orchestrating the coronavirus response through the National Core Committee, a body set up to co-ordinate policy between federal and provincial governments.

The generals have seized the Covid-19 crisis as an opportunity to prove their competency in contrast to Mr Khan, who was ridiculed after urging youth to join the Corona Relief Tigers Force, a volunteer body to wage “jihad” against the pandemic.

“The government left a big gap in its handling of the coronavirus. The army has tried to fill that gap, there was no choice,” said a retired general.

The military’s takeover of the coronavirus response marks another policy failure for Mr Khan in the eyes of the generals, say analysts. He has struggled to generate international traction in finding a solution to the Kashmir problem and has been unable to convince an international watchdog to remove Pakistan from its greylist for terrorism financing.

Now his vital relationship with the military, which backed his run for office in 2018, has frayed.

“In times of emergency, one has to take clear decisions and take them through. You can’t dither,” said Nafisa Shah, a member of parliament from the opposition Pakistan Peoples party (PPP). “The whole world is advising strong lockdown. If the prime minister does not show that he is decisive, somebody else will.”

Coronavirus has shown the disconnect between the national government, regional governments and the military

Sajjan Gohel, south Asia expert
Pakistan has reported more than 11,000 cases of Covid-19 and 237 deaths, but with tens of millions of people living in poverty and a dilapidated healthcare system, the impact of the virus could be catastrophic. Experts are concerned the country’s low testing rates may be concealing the true number of infections.

Across the country, doctors and nurses have protested against a lack of personal protective equipment as increasing numbers of health professionals contract Covid-19.

“Because of the lack of resources there is chaos among the doctors and healthcare workers. They know people are dying, they know the severity of the illness and they have to work without PPE,” said Shoaib Hasan Tarar, a doctor working in Rawalpindi.

The health crisis is pummelling the already sputtering Pakistan economy. According to the IMF, gross domestic product will shrink 1.5 per cent in 2020. The country is set to be the first major emerging economy to apply to a G20 initiative to request debt repayment relief.

Even after the lockdown was announced, Mr Khan repeatedly questioned whether it was necessary, sowing confusion about the country’s response as infections rose sharply.

Maleeha Lodhi, Pakistan’s former ambassador to the UK, US and the UN, wrote in a newspaper editorial that “procrastination over measures aimed at social distancing continued to send conflicting messages. Getting mired in a prolonged public argument about lockdown vs no lockdown conveyed an impression of indecisiveness.”

The country suffered a surge in cases in early March when infected pilgrims and workers crossed the border from the religious city of Qom in Iran, a virus hotspot.

Pakistan’s limited resources were exposed when quarantined pilgrims protested against filthy conditions at Taftan camp on the Iran border, where they were living five people to a tent with no access to toilets.

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It was only weeks later that Pakistan finally started putting tougher measures in place. But fears are mounting that it will not be enough to curb a surge in cases as authorities confront hardline imams downplaying the threat of the virus.

Every week during Friday prayers, tens of thousands of Muslims have been eschewing social distancing recommendations and defy orders that prohibit religious congregations of five or more people.

Islamabad last week signed an agreement to allows for mosques to stay open for Ramadan, stipulating that people must follow 20 rules, including maintaining a 6ft distance from each other.

“There is little consistency in terms of how the lockdown is being approached. Coronavirus has shown the disconnect between the national government, regional governments and the military,” said Sajjan Gohel, south Asia expert and guest teacher at the London School of Economics.

“Imran Khan has been left behind as the cheerleader for keeping Pakistan’s morale high. I think people are starting to ask, ‘How long is he going to last?’”

Serves Imran right. He is more interested in appeasing mullahs than actually saving lives!
 
Disagree. I live in Karachi and I can tell you that while activity has increased lately it is still at around 20-30% of what it normally is and it is pretty much the same in other major cities (can't say for sure about rural areas). The main pastimes of people in Pakistan are going to malls and bazaars or eating out and all that is closed. Add the fact that all schools, most offices and businesses are closed and I really can't understand how you can say that we are not in lockdown. Yes it is not 100% and it never can be in Pakistan but its almost 70-80% closure. Yet we have 11,000 confirmed cases with a local transmission rate of more than 75%. Just imagine what would happen if we open up everything. I agree that it is very difficult to enforce mosque closures but that doesn't mean that you give up totally and yield to the mullahs. Sindh has put a ban on taraweehs. it is too early to say how effective that will be but at least an order has been issued and we can judge its effectiveness in a few days.

The post by you that I quoted, talked about people dying of lack of healthcare because they couldn't pay and not because of hunger. Also I never said that businesses shouldn't be reopened, I said there was no need for mosques to be reopened and I can't understand how opening mosques will alleviate hunger.

I really can't understand what "independent thinking like Sweden" would imply other than adopting herd immunity as that along with solutions involving lockdowns are the only two known approaches to tackling this issue. But I would be happy to listen to you explain it further.

There is absolutely no way to ascertain what stage of outbreak Pakistan is in currently. For all we know this is just the start. Also the limited number of deaths can be attributed largely to the restrictions and not to Pakistani's being immune or some other such unverifiable fact. In such a case easing restrictions can lead to a much worse situation. And that is something that the majority of the doctors are saying, not me. Also let's not talk about logic because that would surely dictate that people pray at home.

You are just ignoring the points and writing irrelevent stuff. Lets keep it simple and to the point.

1. Pakistan cannot implement such a lockdown due to lack of police and security forces.

2. More people are dying of hunger in Pakistan , than are dying of Covid19.

Just answer these 2 pls.
 
Was addressing things you wrote in your previous posts. If all that was irrelevant than so are my posts.

1. So what you saying is that since the state has admitted its failure in enforcing its authority what is happening is automatically justified and the right approach.

2. That just further highlights your ignorance about the issue. If you had cared to read my posts (I doubt you ever bother to do that before replying) you would have seen that I do not have a problem with relaxing the lockdowns for economic activity. Also by bringing up economic issues you are constantly deflecting attention from the real topic of this thread: closure of mosques. We can discuss the economic impact in other threads as I really can't see how opening mosques will alleviate hunger.
 
80pc mosques in Punjab violate govt-Ulema agreement on Taraweeh: report

ISLAMABAD: A survey has shown that more than 80pc of mosques in Punjab and the federal capital did not implement the agreement reached between the government and Ulema regarding the first Taraweeh congregations on Friday.

The survey, conducted by the Pattan Development Organisation, used a standardised checklist that consisted of four of the 20 points of the agreement.

These are that Taraweeh should not be conducted on roads and footpaths, there should be a six feet distance between worshippers on all four sides, people should not do ablution in mosques and they should wear face masks while coming to mosques.

As many as 40 observers were deployed to conduct the survey and each visited four to five mosques during Taraweeh prayers on April 24.

The report said: “Violation of the agreement is highly likely to continue in coming days unless the government takes stern action against the violators.”

The surveyors observed 194 mosques in 15 cities and towns and photographed the violations.

The data released by the NGO showed that in 96pc of the observed mosques people were found praying on pavements and roads and nearly 89pc of the worshippers did not wear face masks.

Besides, in 72pc and 69pc of the observed mosques, the worshippers did not maintain the 6ft distance and were found doing ablution in the mosques.

In the few mosques where some distance was maintained, this did not amount to 6ft. Photos clearly established massive violation of the important mitigation measure.

In more than two-thirds of the observed mosques, children were also found alongside their elders.

The observation was made in Islamabad, Lahore, Faisalabad, Kamalia, Jhang, Layyah, Multan, Toba Tek Singh, Muzaffargarh, Dera Ghazi Khan, Taunsa, Shorkot, Kot Addu and Alipur.

The report said local administration and police warned khateebs and imams about the instructions, “but it appears that police did not bother to carry out the practice in remote areas and congested neighbourhoods.”

While the compliance level was better in bigger and central mosques mainly due to fears of surveillance, “this does not mean that these mosques are less likely to spread the virus,” said the NGO.

It has been suggested that with sufficient evidence available the government should make places of congregations safe for the citizens.

The report demanded the government and health authorities disinfect mosques on a daily basis as it was highly likely that the virus would be carried by worshippers to their homes and communities.

Pattan said the situation was very dangerous and 100pc implementation of the agreement was not possible.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1552273/8...olate-govt-ulema-agreement-on-taraweeh-report

Could never have trusted jahil mullahs. Stupid mistake by IK and his government.
 
FT- Pakistan’s Imran Khan sidelined by military during coronavirus outbreak

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/686714d7-ae05-431d-a13d-1966153be151

The author is based out of New Delhi and is parroting Indian narrative, notice the use of the word 'jihad' for Pakistan's fight against corona. And the author didn't get the viewpoint of the government or military but instead Nafisa Shah who is a second tier leader of PPP which is a regional party now and has been shouting selected selected since day one.

If IK has been sidelined then why his minister Asad Umar is chairing the NCC every single day?


It's one thing when Indians spread false news about Pakistan but when our own people parrot it in their bughs-e-Imran it just hurts the country.
 
The author is based out of New Delhi and is parroting Indian narrative, notice the use of the word 'jihad' for Pakistan's fight against corona. And the author didn't get the viewpoint of the government or military but instead Nafisa Shah who is a second tier leader of PPP which is a regional party now and has been shouting selected selected since day one.

If IK has been sidelined then why his minister Asad Umar is chairing the NCC every single day?


It's one thing when Indians spread false news about Pakistan but when our own people parrot it in their bughs-e-Imran it just hurts the country.

Bogus piece. There were some rumors early on during the response but even if there were such problems earlier I really don't think there any differences now.
 
Was addressing things you wrote in your previous posts. If all that was irrelevant than so are my posts.

1. So what you saying is that since the state has admitted its failure in enforcing its authority what is happening is automatically justified and the right approach.

2. That just further highlights your ignorance about the issue. If you had cared to read my posts (I doubt you ever bother to do that before replying) you would have seen that I do not have a problem with relaxing the lockdowns for economic activity. Also by bringing up economic issues you are constantly deflecting attention from the real topic of this thread: closure of mosques. We can discuss the economic impact in other threads as I really can't see how opening mosques will alleviate hunger.

1.You live in Pakistan and should know the government inherited a failed law and order system decades old. It's not about failure but simple logistics, Pakistan lockdown(mosques) cannot be enforced. So why go there? Its better to allow and give pointers on safety.

2. They are both linked. Lockdown mosques, lockdown of businesses means people cannot get out and therefore will starve. If you are suggesting locking down mosques but not other buildings which see gatherings it wont be consistent.

Again IK is using wisdom not following western media who are mere puppets of those who have their own interests.
 
1.You live in Pakistan and should know the government inherited a failed law and order system decades old. It's not about failure but simple logistics, Pakistan lockdown(mosques) cannot be enforced. So why go there? Its better to allow and give pointers on safety.

2. They are both linked. Lockdown mosques, lockdown of businesses means people cannot get out and therefore will starve. If you are suggesting locking down mosques but not other buildings which see gatherings it wont be consistent.

Again IK is using wisdom not following western media who are mere puppets of those who have their own interests.

1. That is just an excuse for appeasing the mullahs. Yes it wouldn't have been easy to enforce but even 50% implementation would have been better than having no ban at all.

2. Firstly, I still don't get the link between mosques and hunger. Would again ask you to explain how people will die of hunger if they don't visit mosques. Secondly, as i said earlier you are not aware about ground realities and defending the government blindly on this one. All public places, be it schools, cinemas, parks, beaches or malls are closed. The only inconsistency is that mosques are still open.

Yes IK is doing relatively well but there is no way to justify this misstep.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I went to 4 mosques on Lehtrar Rd (rural Islamabad). In one mosque we saw major violations. Jamaat was on the carpet without social distancing and no masks. MNA-52 Khurrum Nawaz was with me. Have informed the DC & Minister of Religious Affairs for action. <a href="https://t.co/GZKZE635T4">https://t.co/GZKZE635T4</a> <a href="https://t.co/nyJ2ynG8SO">pic.twitter.com/nyJ2ynG8SO</a></p>— Dr. Arif Alvi (@ArifAlvi) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArifAlvi/status/1255073849961480194?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 28, 2020</a></blockquote>
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Most mosques violating coronavirus precautions during Taraweeh: report

RAWALPINDI: Following implementation of 20-point guidelines regarding safety measures against the spread of Covid-19, a report on 250 sensitive mosques and imambargahs in the Rawalpindi division has found flaws in majority of the worship places, including security deficiencies.

The government had allowed congregational prayers in mosques during Ramazan under the guidelines which had to be followed in the mosques as a part of precautionary measures against the coronavirus. But an audit team found many rules, including security measures, being violated during Taraweeh at many places.

On the other hand, the Rawalpindi district police served 460 notices on the administrations of the mosques for violating the 20-point guidelines.

A spokesman for Regional Police Officer (RPO) Sohail Habib Tajik told Dawn that rules of social distancing and use of sanitisers and wearing face masks were being observed but sometimes complaints regarding violating the guidelines were received from rural areas.

Mostly, the complaints were regarding presence of people aged over 50 years and children in the mosques.

In Rawalpindi division, 250 mosques/imambargahs had been declared sensitive and categorised as A, B and C due to their vulnerability to the spread of the coronavirus. Of these, 61 are located in Rawalpindi district, 18 in Attock, 42 in Jhelum and 129 in Chakwal.

It was observed that carpets or mates were found laid in six mosques while clean floor for prayers was not ensured.

The most serious violation of rules was observed in 52 mosques where people over 50 years of age and children were present during Taraweeh prayers. Of the 52 mosques, 26 were located in Rawalpindi where the SOP regarding presence of people over 50 years of age and children were ignored.

Taraweeh were offered in 17 mosques, including 14 in Rawalpindi district, which did not have a veranda/lawn or adequate space between the main entrance gate/door and the prayer hall. In 14 mosques/imambargahs, including four located in Rawalpindi district, the lighting arrangements were found unsatisfactory.

Performance of security guards

In 79 mosques/imambargahs, including 54 in Rawalpindi district, private security guards were neither deployed nor performing duties in a satisfactory manner.

In addition, in 34 mosques, 20 located in the Rawalpindi district, police guards were either not present or found not alert at the time of checking. Body search was not carried out in 52 mosques/imambargahs, including 28 in the Rawalpindi district.

Checking through metal detectors was not carried out in 43 mosques/imambargahs and 28 of these were located in the Rawalpindi district.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1554586/m...oronavirus-precautions-during-taraweeh-report
 
In Pakistan, mosques become coronavirus battleground issue

Islamabad, Pakistan - As night falls, worshippers file into the Abdullah bin Masood mosque, in the Pakistani capital Islamabad, hurrying up the steps to attend newly recommenced congregational prayers.

Inside, more than 200 people are gathered, separated by a few feet between them - to maintain physical distancing - as they offer tarawih prayers, a special Muslim prayer offered in the holy month of Ramadan.

There is not a face mask or bottle of hand sanitiser to be seen, as more worshippers walk past the police picket outside to crowd into the mosque's inner chamber, with its fluorescent lights twinkling off the latticed mirror ceiling.

"Essential services have been reopened, and offering prayers as part of a congregation is also an essential service," Hanif Jallandhri, a Pakistani religious leader who leads a network of more than 20,000 mosques and religious schools, tells Al Jazeera.

In most Muslim countries, authorities have, with the backing of religious leaders, shut down all mosques to the public in a bid to contain the spread of the highly contagious coronavirus, which has claimed more than 247,500 lives worldwide, according to Johns Hopkins University data.

In Pakistan, however, tens of thousands of mosques across the country reopened late last month, after religious leaders prevailed upon the government of Prime Minister Imran Khan to allow them to restart congregational services.

It is a unique decision, among Muslim countries, and one that ties into the complex interplay of how political and social power flows in a country where religion is central to public life but does not have a formalised role within State structures.

The result is a constant push-and-pull between religious and political leaders, such as has been seen over the decision to reopen mosques.

'Islamic Republic' vs 'Islamist' republic
Cases of the coronavirus in Pakistan crossed 20,000 early this month, with at least 526 people dead and more than 6,200 having recovered. Cases have been rising exponentially in recent days, and are expected to hit more than 130,000 by the end of May.

At least 2,682 cases, or 12 percent of the country's total cases, can be traced back to a single religious gathering by the Tableeghi Jamat missionary organisation outside the eastern city of Lahore in March. It is the largest single group of those infected in the country's outbreak so far.

Part of the issue for Prime Minister Khan's government - which has advocated for loose shutdowns since the start of the outbreak - when taking on religious leaders is one that goes back to the foundation of the country as a homeland for the Muslims of the subcontinent, in 1947.

"Pakistan is sort of a unique case," says Ahsan Butt, a political scientist at the George Mason University in the US state of Virginia.

"It's a case where it's a state built on Muslim nationalism, so Islam and Muslim identity are crucial to the State and the wider society, and the conception of the collective self.

"But it is not erected strictly as a Muslim or Islamist state, like Iran or Saudi Arabia."

As a result, Butt explains, religious leaders and institutions wield a great deal of influence and social power but are not explicitly a part of the State. By comparison, states where religious authority is melded into governance, like Saudi Arabia, have been more able to control their religious establishments during the coronavirus outbreak, shutting down places of worship, including the holiest site in Islam, the Kaaba.

"So this leads to a dichotomy: that Islam is central to Pakistan's being, but [religious] actors are, in their perception, outside the State. Clerics may influence the country very strongly, but they are not the ones actually in power."

Religious parties have never won a significant number of seats in Pakistani elections. Butt argues that they rely instead on "latent power, not juridical power".

"Their power comes from their standing and status; it comes from the threat of coming out on the street."

'Impossible to enforce' plan
Tensions came to the fore on April 14, when an alliance of religious leaders from across the Pakistani Muslim sectarian spectrum - a rare occurrence - came together to declare that they were unilaterally reopening mosques for congregational prayers, in defiance of government lockdown orders.

The step prompted the government to negotiate with a committee of religious leaders, agreeing to a 20-point plan for reopening mosques from late April. The steps include enforcing physical distancing guidelines between worshippers, discouraging the sick and elderly from attending prayers, providing hand sanitiser to congregants and discouraging socialising within the mosque.

Days later, leading Pakistani doctors warned that the decision could lead to a spike in coronavirus cases. Religious leaders say they will take responsibility for implementing the directives and that the government can act if rules are not followed.

In visits to observe congregational prayers at six major mosques in the Pakistani capital, Al Jazeera observed varying levels of compliance with the safety directives. In some, a handful of congregants stood more than six feet (two metres) apart and only those wearing face masks were allowed inside. In others, hundreds of worshippers crowded in, shoulder-to-shoulder, to offer prayers with no safety precautions visible.

"It's impossible to enforce," says Madiha Afzal, a fellow at the Brookings Institution who studies political economy and extremism.

"The buck is on the [the mosque leader]. Who is going to ensure that the cleric is doing this? Can there be any authority that ensures this all over the country, [five] times a day?"

So why does the Pakistani government itself not enforce these rules more strictly, forcing the religious leaders to obey government-mandated guidelines?

Afzal argues that this is because of how religious authority in Pakistan is organised - in a decentralised structure not controlled by the State.

"The Pakistani state does not have the ability to be authoritarian in terms of religion," she says. "It is the Islamic republic, but it is not a theocracy. It's a democracy with a very [...] complicated relationship with religion," says Afzal.

Butt concurs with that analysis.

"Pakistan is not a fully democratic state, but unlike Egypt, for instance, where the State can clamp down on protests and collective action and on freedom of assembly pretty easily, regardless of who is doing it [...] Pakistan does not have that fully authoritarian structure," he says.

Both experts, however, were quick to point out that the Pakistani state had a history of taking authoritarian measures against other types of actors - those opposing the country's powerful military or advocating for causes deemed prejudicial to national security interests, for example.

Questions of social power
For religious leaders, bound in a constant push-and-pull for social and political power with the State, the calculus in such a situation appears fairly clear.

"If you have religious institution or mosques shut down, then the question arises that you have all these other [groceries and businesses] that are open, does that imply that religious aspects of our lives are less important?" asks Arsalan Khan, an anthropologist who studies Islamic revivalist movements in South Asia. "This is a deen [religion] versus duniya [worldly concerns] problem."

For leaders of organised religion, Khan says "there is a real fear, across the board, that religion will be rendered unimportant".

"When the politics of religion is organised around the sense that religious feeling is essential to the wellbeing of society, then it is hard to argue that mosques should be closed."

Jallandhri, the religious leader, says Pakistanis need to take "spiritual" steps to combat the virus, in addition to hygiene precautions.

"The government has opened many sectors to ease the lockdown," he says. "Our position is that if you open groceries, bazaars, banks, other types of businesses, then the mosque should also be reopened."

There are also very real financial implications for religious institutions if they remain closed. Pakistan's government is largely uninvolved in regulating or financing mosques across the country, leaving that up to independent religious boards and organisations.

"These [mosques and religious leaders] are basically freelancers, and it is a pretty vicious market, with tens of thousands of mosques," says Butt. "They need the donations [and] a lot of it comes from foot traffic - if you cut that during Ramadan, then you cut their income significantly for the year, not just that month."

For religious leaders, there is also the danger of not being seen to adequately protect the place of religion in society, and being "outflanked" by others who are willing to take a harder line.

"If I, as a leader of [a] mosque, don't take the most extreme position, then the second or third in control of this mosque will look to replace me and will have a stronger [or more extreme] argument," says Butt.

Khan agrees, suggesting that senior religious leaders who pushed for the 20-point plan to reopen mosques with the government were reacting to pressure from the bottom of their organisations.

"There is a fear [for them] that lower-tier upstarts could rise up," he says. "Whoever can control the politics of the street, has leverage and so [...] more established religious leaders are very worried about these more radical forces that come from the bottom [replacing them]."

Finally, there is the question of how religion may well be something many Pakistanis consider to be an essential service - regardless of questions of social power.

"The idea that wellbeing comes from God, this is not just religious leaders that say that, it is a widely accepted thing [in Pakistan]," says Khan. "This is not necessarily built on an irrational perception of the risk. It may be that you accept those risks, and yet you find that the importance of going to the mosque is greater."

At a small mosque in Islamabad's G-8 sector, questions of outflanking and potential ideological coups at the top of religious institutions feel like distant concerns.

A handful of worshippers gather for the nightly tarawih prayer. Across the road stands the Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences (PIMS), the capital's main government hospital and the heart of efforts to control the coronavirus outbreak here.

The worshippers stand shoulder-to-shoulder, on a bare marble floor, as the imam begins the prayer.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...virus-battleground-issue-200504102030000.html
 
Prominent clerics and noted scholars have announced resumption of five-time congregational prayers at mosques across the country, hoping the government this time would not put any hurdle and saying uncertainty about the end of coronavirus could not stop people from activities of daily life and regular business.

The congregations were banned when the countrywide lockdown was imposed in March to contain the spread of coronavirus. However, with the beginning of Ramazan in April, the government agreed on Taraveeh prayers in an agreement with clerics under the defined standard operating procedures (SOPs) which allowed only limited number of people at mosques.
 
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