Do you believe in God?

[troodon]

You remind me of the doubters who used to doubt the prophets (peace be upon them all) back in their days.

I believe in God for many different reasons. Main reason is I find order in whole universe. There are clear signs of intelligent designs.

Evolution is complete horseshit. I have no trouble in disbelieving in it.

You believe in something because it has a strong evidence supporting it. Where is the evidence from Quran that supports the existence of an all knowing all powerful God?

 

[sweep_shot]

You believe in something because it has a strong evidence supporting it. Where is the evidence from Quran that supports the existence of an all knowing all powerful God?

The way Quran was written, I have no doubt that this is from God. Have you ever read the Quran? Many people (including many haters) convert to Islam after they get exposed to Quran/Islam. Two former far-right politicians recently converted to Islam; one converted after reading Quran.

Here's an article for you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...converted-islam-its-not-surprising-it-sounds/.

 

[troodon]

The way Quran was written, I have no doubt that this is from God. Have you ever read the Quran? Many people (including many haters) convert to Islam after they get exposed to Quran/Islam. Two former far-right politicians recently converted to Islam; one converted after reading Quran.

Here's an article for you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...converted-islam-its-not-surprising-it-sounds/.

People convert from many religions to other religions. There are many ***** who convert to Hinduism after reading Geeta. That means nothing. Same with Westerners converting to Buddhism.

There are many literary works that is hard to replicate or cannot be replicated. That does not mean they are from God.

I am reading and learning the English version of Quran. So I cannot appreciate the literary eloquence of Arabic Quran. Have you read the Quran in Arabic? Do you understand Arabic?

 

[sweep_shot]

People convert from many religions to other religions. There are many ***** who convert to Hinduism after reading Geeta. That means nothing. Same with Westerners converting to Buddhism.

There are many literary works that is hard to replicate or cannot be replicated. That does not mean they are from God.

I am reading and learning the English version of Quran. So I cannot appreciate the literary eloquence of Arabic Quran. Have you read the Quran in Arabic? Do you understand Arabic?

I need Arabic to pray and I also read Quran in Arabic. Don't worry about me. Stay on topic.

 

[uberkoen]

Already posted above, check the link I posted above.

Why should I trust a random internet page? I'm asking for your opinion or do you not have one?

 

[uberkoen]

The way Quran was written, I have no doubt that this is from God. Have you ever read the Quran? Many people (including many haters) convert to Islam after they get exposed to Quran/Islam. Two former far-right politicians recently converted to Islam; one converted after reading Quran.

Here's an article for you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...converted-islam-its-not-surprising-it-sounds/.

Yes, many muslims convert to other religions and athiesm as well. What's the point? That doesn't prove anything

 

[Musakhel]

Why should I trust a random internet page? I'm asking for your opinion or do you not have one?

I Don't have one, I leave it to the Concensus of the scholars.

 

[uberkoen]

I Don't have one, I leave it to the Concensus of the scholars.

So the scholars can all get together and make a decision on which verse to take literally and which one not?

 

[Musakhel]

So the scholars can all get together and make a decision on which verse to take literally and which one not?

They have principles, Because of their vast knowledge of Quran, arabic language, Hadith, aqeedah etc where they can see that Verses which the layman will interpret incorrectly Such as People who Believe that Allah literally sits on his throne, Do not mean that, when they look at the totality of the Quran and Hadith.

 

[miandadrules]

I Don't have one, I leave it to the Concensus of the scholars.

How do you know if what they are telling you is valid and not a means to manipulate you?

The human mind has to be subjected to years of psychological abuse for it to be so compliant. Which of course what religion is. Mass social engineering via psychological and physical abuse.

How can we be surprised if someone subjected to this draws the conclusion they do?

 

[troodon]

I need Arabic to pray and I also read Quran in Arabic. Don't worry about me. Stay on topic.

But do you understand Arabic.

Many subcontinental Muslims can read Arabic. Many of my Muslim friends can read Arabic. But they do not understand what it means.

Back to the topic, what is the proof that Quran is from God? I have proof that it is not from an all knowing God.

 

[sweep_shot]

Back to the topic, what is the proof that Quran is from God? I have proof that it is not from an all knowing God.

List your proofs. I would love to see.

 

[troodon]

List your proofs. I would love to see.

For example the story of Dhulkarnain. Quran claiming that the Sun sets in a muddy puddle.

 

[sweep_shot]

For example the story of Dhulkarnain. Quran claiming that the Sun sets in a muddy puddle.

It doesn't really prove that Quran is not from God. Here's the explanation:

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds; and may His blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

Some of the enemies of Islam claim that the Qur'an contains mistakes or is contradicting reality, etc. The truth is otherwise.

The Qur'an was revealed by The Most-Wise, the All-Knower Who has created this universe.

There is nothing that takes place except that Allah is aware about it. Should not He Who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous to His slaves, All-Aware of everything.

As regards the subject of the question, the Ayah (verse) is from the story of the just king Dhul-Qarnain. The interpretation of “the sun setting in a spring of black muddy water”, in the books of Tafseer is the following: Dhul-Qarnain went towards the direction of the West until he reached the farthest place in the West. There he found as if the sun was setting in a black muddy water. If a person among ourselves stands at the shore (sea-side) at sun set, he will see the sun as if it is falling into the sea, or setting into the sea.

But the reality is otherwise, when the sun sets in one place, it is still rising on another place

Therefore, what is meant by the verse “he found the sun setting in a muddy water” means when someone looks at it, that is what he/she would think and see.

Perhaps, Dhul-Qarnain arrived to a place where a river in deluge meets with the sea. The water of the river may contain mud, and when the sun sets, it would appear to a person looking at it as if it sets in a muddy water.

For more information about this subject you can refer to Tafseer books (books about the interpretation of the meaning of the Holy Qur'an).

Allah knows best.

Source: https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/87646/.

 

[troodon]

^ Hilarious.

So he had to travel all the way to the West to find it set in a sea or muddy spring? He might as well stay in the same place and reported that the sun set behind tress or some hill

Also, the actual story goes this way. Prophet Muhammed was once traveling on a Donkey and Prophet asks a guy - Do you know where the Sun Sets? The guy says, Allah and his Prophet knows best. Then Prophet tells the story of Dhulkarnain and says that Dhulkarnain travels all the way to the west and he saw that the Sun sets in a warm water AKA Muddy puddle.

You see, if it was really from God, then Allah would have told Muhammed that the Sun never sets as Earth is a Sphere and it is only an illusion. But instead there is a story of Dhulkarnain in the Quran as an answer which makes no sense.

oh by the way, how can anyone travel all the way to the West? Earth is a sphere. If he travels all the way to the West, he would reach the same spot he started from

 

[sweep_shot]

^ Hilarious.

So he had to travel all the way to the West to find it set in a sea or muddy spring? He might as well stay in the same place and reported that the sun set behind tress or some hill

Also, the actual story goes this way. Prophet Muhammed was once traveling on a Donkey and Prophet asks a guy - Do you know where the Sun Sets? The guy says, Allah and his Prophet knows best. Then Prophet tells the story of Dhulkarnain and says that Dhulkarnain travels all the way to the west and he saw that the Sun sets in a warm water AKA Muddy puddle.

You see, if it was really from God, then Allah would have told Muhammed that the Sun never sets as Earth is a Sphere and it is only an illusion. But instead there is a story of Dhulkarnain in the Quran as an answer which makes no sense.

oh by the way, how can anyone travel all the way to the West? Earth is a sphere. If he travels all the way to the West, he would reach the same spot he started from

You can believe whatever you want. I gave you the explanation.

 

[troodon]

You can believe whatever you want. I gave you the explanation.

If you are a Sunni, see the below Hadith.
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 326 :
Narrated by Abu Dharr
Once I was with the Prophet in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet said, "O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah's) Throne; and that is Allah's Statement:-- 'And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (decreed). And that is the decree of All-Mighty, the All-Knowing....' (36.38)

So when Sun Sets, it goes and Prostrates below Allah's throne? How can you believe this in 2019?

 

[sweep_shot]

If you are a Sunni, see the below Hadith.
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 326 :
Narrated by Abu Dharr
Once I was with the Prophet in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet said, "O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah's) Throne; and that is Allah's Statement:-- 'And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (decreed). And that is the decree of All-Mighty, the All-Knowing....' (36.38)

So when Sun Sets, it goes and Prostrates below Allah's throne? How can you believe this in 2019?

Please see this: https://islamqa.org/shafii/shafiifiqh/30122.

 

[troodon]

Please see this: https://islamqa.org/shafii/shafiifiqh/30122.

Ok. I read the link.

What has it got to do with the Sun prostrating under the Throne of Allah that I mentioned above from Sahih Bukhari? All it says is about the paths and orbits of Sun and Moon.

Never once the explanation said that the Earth is a sphere or talks about where the Sun sets or how Sunset happens!

Hilariously, it says that Allah subjugated the Sun and the Moon for Mankind. Seriously man. What kind of explanation is this? Humans only existed for less than 200,000 years. Sun and Moon have been there for over 4 billion years. The human centric idea is lolworthy.

Anyways, explain how Sun prostrates under the throne of Allah. I am curious to learn from you.

 

[sweep_shot]

Ok. I read the link.

What has it got to do with the Sun prostrating under the Throne of Allah that I mentioned above from Sahih Bukhari? All it says is about the paths and orbits of Sun and Moon.

Never once the explanation said that the Earth is a sphere or talks about where the Sun sets or how Sunset happens!

Hilariously, it says that Allah subjugated the Sun and the Moon for Mankind. Seriously man. What kind of explanation is this? Humans only existed for less than 200,000 years. Sun and Moon have been there for over 4 billion years. The human centric idea is lolworthy.

Anyways, explain how Sun prostrates under the throne of Allah. I am curious to learn from you.

Muslims don't believe Earth is flat. No point in debating that with you if you think that. Here's a video for you:

Explanation is in that article. Read again.

 

[Musakhel]

How do you know if what they are telling you is valid and not a means to manipulate you?

The human mind has to be subjected to years of psychological abuse for it to be so compliant. Which of course what religion is. Mass social engineering via psychological and physical abuse.

How can we be surprised if someone subjected to this draws the conclusion they do?

It must take a very concentrated effort for scholars for over a 1000 years in very different geographical locations of the earth, born in different ages to come to the same conclusions again and again.

 

[barah_admi]

Muslims don't believe Earth is flat. No point in debating that with you if you think that. Here's a video for you:

Explanation is in that article. Read again.

I have found it best to ignore people like troodon and other similar posters. You can provide them with all the explanations they want but they will never take them in and either carry on with the same line of discussion or find something new to bring up which is completely unrelated.

 

[miandadrules]

It must take a very concentrated effort for scholars for over a 1000 years in very different geographical locations of the earth, born in different ages to come to the same conclusions again and again.

Same conclusions?

Please elaborate with actual supporting evidence.

Once again, it’s a simple question: using your rationale how does one distinguish between the truth and a lie?

I think this may be the 4th time I’ve asked.

 

[miandadrules]

I have found it best to ignore people like troodon and other similar posters. You can provide them with all the explanations they want but they will never take them in and either carry on with the same line of discussion or find something new to bring up which is completely unrelated.

Thankfully that’s not trait exhibited by the Ummah. Conclusive proof has been provided in this thread.

 

[sweep_shot]

I have found it best to ignore people like troodon and other similar posters. You can provide them with all the explanations they want but they will never take them in and either carry on with the same line of discussion or find something new to bring up which is completely unrelated.

You are correct. It goes in circle and nobody changes mind.

But, I still engage to see what these critics are up to.

 

[troodon]

Muslims don't believe Earth is flat. No point in debating that with you if you think that. Here's a video for you:

Explanation is in that article. Read again.

So Quran is explaining for illiterate Bedouin. Hence it says what it says.

You see whether you an illiterate or scholor or Bedouin or city dweller, everyone sees the same. Sun sets and Sun rises. It was up to all knowing Allah to tell people of Earth that sun actually never rises or sets. Its only an illusion. Prophet Muhammed should have explained the entire theory to his followers and knowledge should have been spread that way. Remember, we are not talking about an oridinary joe in a desert. We are talking about Almighty and his Messenger.

Again, what exactly Prophet Muhammed meant when Sun would prostrate under Allah's throne after Sunset? You never answered that.

 

[Musakhel]

Same conclusions?

Please elaborate with actual supporting evidence.

Once again, it’s a simple question: using your rationale how does one distinguish between the truth and a lie?

I think this may be the 4th time I’ve asked.

Just research the Ashari and maturidi creed works, and the thousand of scholars who Have written works on these creeds you will see consistent Agreement across their Creed with minor semantical differences.

Easy like I said it would border on the Absurd to believe That so many Individuals who Came to the same agreement On Allah attributes, using the same source of Quran and Ahadith, time and again over 1400 years are lying.

 

[troodon]

I have found it best to ignore people like troodon and other similar posters. You can provide them with all the explanations they want but they will never take them in and either carry on with the same line of discussion or find something new to bring up which is completely unrelated.

On man!

Sahih Bukhari mentions that Allah's messenger say that Sun prostrates under the throne of Allah after Sun set.

I am not asking any rocket science question. I am asking how Sun Prostrates under the throne of Allah and how Allah grants it the permission to rise up again?

What proofs have you guys given?

Let me tell you. If Islam does not believe Earth is flat, how does a Person praying in Indonesia or Americas or even Africa face Mecca when praying? They can never do that.

Don't runaway from answering my question. Again, how does Sun prostrate under the throne of Allah?

 

[miandadrules]

Just research the Ashari and maturidi creed works, and the thousand of scholars who Have written works on these creeds you will see consistent Agreement across their Creed with minor semantical differences.

Easy like I said it would border on the Absurd to believe That so many Individuals who Came to the same agreement On Allah attributes, using the same source of Quran and Ahadith, time and again over 1400 years are lying.

Oh, you seem to be under the impression that I have not done my research.

I’m very familiar with the Ashari school of thought and how it led to the intellectual decline of the Muslim world. Great resource!

Minor semantical difference? Firstly, let’s break this down. Secondly, perfection doesn’t need Symantecs.

I will ask this question for the 5th time. Following your edict how does one distinguish between the truth and a lie?

Why is this so difficult for someone who claims to have reached conclusive answers through detailed research.

Please don’t insult my intelligence by telling me I should leave the “thinking” to others.

 

[sweep_shot]

On man!

Sahih Bukhari mentions that Allah's messenger say that Sun prostrates under the throne of Allah after Sun set.

I am not asking any rocket science question. I am asking how Sun Prostrates under the throne of Allah and how Allah grants it the permission to rise up again?

What proofs have you guys given?

Let me tell you. If Islam does not believe Earth is flat, how does a Person praying in Indonesia or Americas or even Africa face Mecca when praying? They can never do that.

Don't runaway from answering my question. Again, how does Sun prostrate under the throne of Allah?

I am not running away. Your questions are laughable. Muslims don't believe Earth is flat. It is like accusing us of believing 1 + 1 = 11.

At the end of the day, I don't care what you believe in. My explanations are from scholars. Please see the links and videos I posted.

So Quran is explaining for illiterate Bedouin. Hence it says what it says.

You see whether you an illiterate or scholor or Bedouin or city dweller, everyone sees the same. Sun sets and Sun rises. It was up to all knowing Allah to tell people of Earth that sun actually never rises or sets. Its only an illusion. Prophet Muhammed should have explained the entire theory to his followers and knowledge should have been spread that way. Remember, we are not talking about an oridinary joe in a desert. We are talking about Almighty and his Messenger.

Again, what exactly Prophet Muhammed meant when Sun would prostrate under Allah's throne after Sunset? You never answered that.

There are two types of world. One is seen (the things we know and see) and another is unseen. We don't know what happens in the unseen world.

Also, do you know what a metaphor is? It doesn't seem like you know what it is. There are certain things that are metaphorical.

 

[Technics 1210]

The question in the OP is - do you believe in God? It seems that Atheists have the biggest problem with this thread, while those who hold faith in God, have their mind at peace.

Since the dawn of mankind, Atheists have tried to disprove God by every means necessary, but despite their repeated failures, belief in God is on the rise (across all religions) after 1000s of years. The truth will always prevail.

Let me sum up an Athiest's mind :

Boeing 747 = Intelligent Design.
Eagle = Fluke of nature.

 

[miandadrules]

I am not running away. Your questions are laughable. Muslims don't believe Earth is flat. It is like accusing us of believing 1 + 1 = 11.

At the end of the day, I don't care what you believe in. My explanations are from scholars. Please see the links and videos I posted.

You do know that you could easily put this issue to bed, by reference the earliest recorded inference from a Muslim stating the world is round. Conclusively, not with wishy-washy language.

 

[sweep_shot]

You do know that you could easily put this issue to bed, by reference the earliest recorded inference from a Muslim stating the world is round. Conclusively, not with wishy-washy language.

I’d be surprised if you can even manage this.

I don't think I need to prove that 1+1 doesn't equal to 11. It is a waste of time.

Similarly, I don't need to prove that Muslims believe Earth is not flat. I am surprised that any critic would accuse us of that. Also, I posted a video link about it.

 

[miandadrules]

I am not running away. Your questions are laughable. Muslims don't believe Earth is flat. It is like accusing us of believing 1 + 1 = 11.

At the end of the day, I don't care what you believe in. My explanations are from scholars. Please see the links and videos I posted.



There are two types of world. One is seen (the things we know and see) and another is unseen. We don't know what happens in the unseen world.

Also, do you know what a metaphor is? It doesn't seem like you know what it is. There are certain things that are metaphorical.

How do you know of this unseen world?

Perfection couldn’t clearly distinguish between metaphor and reality?

 

[miandadrules]

I don't think I need to prove that 1+1 doesn't equal to 11. It is a waste of time.

Similarly, I don't need to prove that Muslims believe Earth is not flat. I am surprised that any critic would accuse us of that. Also, I posted a video link about it.

Thank you.

 

[sweep_shot]

How do you know of this unseen world?

Perfection couldn’t clearly distinguish between metaphor and reality?

God kept certain things hidden. He created us to test us. If everything was so blatant, there would be no point in test.

When you write an exam, do they give you answers? They give you questions and it is your job to find solutions to those questions.

 

[miandadrules]

The question in the OP is - do you believe in God? It seems that Atheists have the biggest problem with this thread, while those who hold faith in God, have their mind at peace.

Since the dawn of mankind, Atheists have tried to disprove God by every means necessary, but despite their repeated failures, belief in God is on the rise (across all religions) after 1000s of years. The truth will always prevail.

Let me sum up an Athiest's mind :

Boeing 747 = Intelligent Design.
Eagle = Fluke of nature.

You tell the IH.

Just one question. Who designed God then?

 

[miandadrules]

God kept certain things hidden. He created us to test us. If everything was so blatant, there would be no point in test.

When you write an exam, do they give you answers? They give you questions and it is your job to find solutions to those questions.

Simple question, I’m sorry it came across as so complicated. My fault.

How do YOU know of this unseen world?

I love the exam analogy. It’s something I have a great deal of experience in.

When I prepare for the exam I study the material, using a wide array of resources and analyse its validity.

What I don’t do is believe a random person telling me a line is a sphere just because they say so. Especially when you ask for something substantial and they continue to parrot the same line.

 

[Technics 1210]

You tell the IH.

Just one question. Who designed God then?

We have been through this. God popped out of nothing. Why is this so hard to understand given you accept the universe and all within popped out of absolute nothing and was a fluke.

 

[miandadrules]

We have been through this. God popped out of nothing. Why is this so hard to understand given you accept the universe and all within popped out of absolute nothing and was a fluke.

I’m not the problem with this concept, genius! You are.

God popped out of nothing but nothing else can?Great logic!

IH, are you now saying it’s feasible for the universe to come from nothing?

 

[sweep_shot]

Simple question, I’m sorry it came across as so complicated. My fault.

How do YOU know of this unseen world?

I love the exam analogy. It’s something I have a great deal of experience in.

When I prepare for the exam I study the material, using a wide array of resources and analyse its validity.

What I don’t do is believe a random person telling me a line is a sphere just because they say so. Especially when you ask for something substantial and they continue to parrot the same line.

These are my views:

1) I believe this universe has way too much order for it to happen by chance. It is the primary reason why I believe in Creator (God).

2) I find inner peace whenever I do any Islamic ritual (prayer, fasting etc.). It is an internal feeling and I don't get that feeling with anything else. I have no doubt there is another world out there. We are not alone.

3) God told us that He would preserve Quran. Even after 1400 years, not a single dot has been changed. It has been preserved by the will of God.

4) There are certain prophecies in Islam that came true and are coming true. Please check this link: https://yaqeeninstitute.org/mohamma...-ﷺ-proofs-of-prophethood-series/#.XbHlWuhKhPY. One of my favorite ones is how Arab nomads would compete with each other in building tall architectures.

 

[Technics 1210]

I’m not the problem with this concept, genius! You are.

God popped out of nothing but nothing else can?Great logic!

IH, are you now saying it’s feasible for the universe to come from nothing?

I don't have the problem, you do.

Your logic just got exposed. You believe the universe can come from nothing, but not God. I am using YOUR argument to disprove your logic.

Then again you believe a 747 is designed, but an Eagle is a fluke. Oh and 1 + 1 is 11.

Keep living in denial and let me know when Jack comes around with those magic beans.

 

[Musakhel]

Oh, you seem to be under the impression that I have not done my research.

I’m very familiar with the Ashari school of thought and how it led to the intellectual decline of the Muslim world. Great resource!

Minor semantical difference? Firstly, let’s break this down. Secondly, perfection doesn’t need Symantecs.

I will ask this question for the 5th time. Following your edict how does one distinguish between the truth and a lie?

Why is this so difficult for someone who claims to have reached conclusive answers through detailed research.

Please don’t insult my intelligence by telling me I should leave the “thinking” to others.

Than I guess you would know that there are 12 points of difference between the Asharis and the maturidi and most of the 12 are Differences in semantics.

No one said These scholars are perfect, but We know that their Creed is sound as it has been verified by Long list Of Scholars through the ages and is in agreement with The beliefs of the earliest companions, see the Quote I posted in this thread from Imam Ali, His Beleif In Allah Attributes completely destroys the Argument of the literalist.

You have to be specific with your question what is The truth or lie we are Discussing?

 

[JaDed]

I have found it best to ignore people like troodon and other similar posters. You can provide them with all the explanations they want but they will never take them in and either carry on with the same line of discussion or find something new to bring up which is completely unrelated.

Which is true for religious believers as well..

 

[miandadrules]

These are my views:

1) I believe this universe has way too much order for it to happen by chance. It is the primary reason why I believe in Creator (God).

2) I find inner peace whenever I do any Islamic ritual (prayer, fasting etc.). It is an internal feeling and I don't get that feeling with anything else. I have no doubt there is another world out there. We are not alone.

3) God told us that He would preserve Quran. Even after 1400 years, not a single dot has been changed. It has been preserved by the will of God.

4) There are certain prophecies in Islam that came true and are coming true. Please check this link: https://yaqeeninstitute.org/mohamma...-ﷺ-proofs-of-prophethood-series/#.XbHlWuhKhPY. One of my favorite ones is how Arab nomads would compete with each other in building tall architectures.

1. Just a subjective statement without any substance. Please provide any of you do.

2. Subjective response. I would be surprised if many after being subjected to the psychological abuse Islam inflicts, would respond any differently.

3. Sana’a manuscript as a starting point.

4. Texas sharp shooter fallacy.

I didn’t get an answer to the question. How do you know of this unseen world?

 

[Technics 1210]

How do you know of this unseen world?

You don't, THAT IS WHY IT IS CALLED FAITH. Understand?

Why are you so interested in how God came about etc when you accept the universe popped into existence from absolute nothingness? Where did the forces, matter, and space, itself come from? Nothing according to you. Well, fine. God also came from nothing. Accept this fact according to your logic and move on.

Your arguments here are not geared towards the technicalities of God, but rather the morality involved. You see, I can read between the lines, and from what I am reading, you are seeking closure; a justification and appeasement for bailing on God. That’s fine, but I cannot help you here. No one can.

That’s the difference you see, most people are content with their faith, but you on the other hand, are pretty much disturbed by yours.

Anyway, have fun!

 

[miandadrules]

Than I guess you would know that there are 12 points of difference between the Asharis and the maturidi and most of the 12 are Differences in semantics.

No one said These scholars are perfect, but We know that their Creed is sound as it has been verified by Long list Of Scholars through the ages and is in agreement with The beliefs of the earliest companions, see the Quote I posted in this thread from Imam Ali, His Beleif In Allah Attributes completely destroys the Argument of the literalist.

You have to be specific with your question what is The truth or lie we are Discussing?

For the 6th time.

How do we distinguish between the truth and a lie following your edict?

No need for specifics. Any statement on any subject.

I’m hoping you will simply answer this directly, rather than trying a very crude attempt at gish gallop.

 

[miandadrules]

The question in the OP is - do you believe in God? It seems that Atheists have the biggest problem with this thread, while those who hold faith in God, have their mind at peace.

Since the dawn of mankind, Atheists have tried to disprove God by every means necessary, but despite their repeated failures, belief in God is on the rise (across all religions) after 1000s of years. The truth will always prevail.

Let me sum up an Athiest's mind :

Boeing 747 = Intelligent Design.
Eagle = Fluke of nature.

We have been through this. God popped out of nothing. Why is this so hard to understand given you accept the universe and all within popped out of absolute nothing and was a fluke.

I don't have the problem, you do.

Your logic just got exposed. You believe the universe can come from nothing, but not God. I am using YOUR argument to disprove your logic.

Then again you believe a 747 is designed, but an Eagle is a fluke. Oh and 1 + 1 is 11.

Keep living in denial and let me know when Jack comes around with those magic beans.

Drum roll for our resident IH!

These posts are a thing of beauty.

So first IH brilliantly mocked the idea of something coming from nothing, and alluded to how absurd such a concept is.

In the very next post he states that God popped up out of nothing.

Then he came with a killer blow that atheists believe the universe came out of nothing, then why not God? Well if you get a telescope we can both study the universe together. Let me know when you have anything of God we can observe and study.

Yes my logic has been destroyed by you. There is no shame in that, you’re not the Intellectual Heavyweight for nothing.

I guess ultimately you’re mocking Muslims for believing Allah just popped in to existence. Just using your “logic”.

The icing on the cake has to be the insinuation of me believing in magic beans, whilst believing in Islamic fairytales.

 

[miandadrules]

The question in the OP is - do you believe in God? It seems that Atheists have the biggest problem with this thread, while those who hold faith in God, have their mind at peace.

Since the dawn of mankind, Atheists have tried to disprove God by every means necessary, but despite their repeated failures, belief in God is on the rise (across all religions) after 1000s of years. The truth will always prevail.

Let me sum up an Athiest's mind :

Boeing 747 = Intelligent Design.
Eagle = Fluke of nature.

We have been through this. God popped out of nothing. Why is this so hard to understand given you accept the universe and all within popped out of absolute nothing and was a fluke.

You don't, THAT IS WHY IT IS CALLED FAITH. Understand?

Why are you so interested in how God came about etc when you accept the universe popped into existence from absolute nothingness? Where did the forces, matter, and space, itself come from? Nothing according to you. Well, fine. God also came from nothing. Accept this fact according to your logic and move on.

Your arguments here are not geared towards the technicalities of God, but rather the morality involved. You see, I can read between the lines, and from what I am reading, you are seeking closure; a justification and appeasement for bailing on God. That’s fine, but I cannot help you here. No one can.

That’s the difference you see, most people are content with their faith, but you on the other hand, are pretty much disturbed by yours.

Anyway, have fun!

I can observe the universe and no one has stated a definite answer, simply what we know thus far.

Accept the fact that God popped out of nothing. Sure I will, the second you prove he exists.

I want appeasement for bailing on a dictions character that was brutally imposed upon my ancestors. That’s simply projection on your part. Learn to read the actual lines before you try going between them.

The issue certainly is about morality and actions and those espoused by Islam, which I find abhorrent.

I’m so disturbed by my LACK of faith.

 

[barah_admi]

Which is true for religious believers as well..

In what way?

And I personally would not post to defend religionS or religious PEOPLE but from a perspective of a Muslim, I pose a string of simple questions. If one can answer them and disprove Islam then I am willing to accept the superior ideology that this person may propose.

 

[barah_admi]

On man!

Sahih Bukhari mentions that Allah's messenger say that Sun prostrates under the throne of Allah after Sun set.

I am not asking any rocket science question. I am asking how Sun Prostrates under the throne of Allah and how Allah grants it the permission to rise up again?

What proofs have you guys given?

Let me tell you. If Islam does not believe Earth is flat, how does a Person praying in Indonesia or Americas or even Africa face Mecca when praying? They can never do that.

Don't runaway from answering my question. Again, how does Sun prostrate under the throne of Allah?

I will give you once chance and answer your questions very simply because neither is difficult.

1 - I am not familiar with the hadiths but we as Muslims believe everything is subservient to Allah. The sun is also subservient and only functions, rising, setting being hot, being orange/yellow whatever colour because God deems it so.

Subservience of the creation to the creator is a basic foundation of every Abrahamic faith. Your disbelief in God does not disprove this notion, however you are by no means obliged to believe in it. Having said that, believing in it does not make it incorrect.

Why would you think that the sun, if created by God, would NOT be subservient to that God?

2. - Facing Makkah means to face the general eastward direction.

 

[troodon]

I will give you once chance and answer your questions very simply because neither is difficult.

1 - I am not familiar with the hadiths but we as Muslims believe everything is subservient to Allah. The sun is also subservient and only functions, rising, setting being hot, being orange/yellow whatever colour because God deems it so.

Subservience of the creation to the creator is a basic foundation of every Abrahamic faith. Your disbelief in God does not disprove this notion, however you are by no means obliged to believe in it. Having said that, believing in it does not make it incorrect.

Why would you think that the sun, if created by God, would NOT be subservient to that God?

2. - Facing Makkah means to face the general eastward direction.

Meh!

I will give you the subservient part because no one can prove or disprove it. We can say Sun and Moon and Stars are subservient to Thor or Buddha or Zues... also with the same amount of proof.

Regarding Sun prostrating below Allah's throne every day after Sunset, we can all see it does not happen. Sun setting at your place means it is rising somewhere else on the Earth. It is not prostrating itself under Allah's throne.

What general Eastward direction? Unless Earth is flat, you can never face Mecca by praying to general Eastward direction. With Earth being round, Either you are praying vertically up/down depending on where you are located. Basically you are never facing Kaba unless you are only with in a few hundred kilometers from Mecca.

 

[sweep_shot]

1. Just a subjective statement without any substance. Please provide any of you do.

2. Subjective response. I would be surprised if many after being subjected to the psychological abuse Islam inflicts, would respond any differently.

3. Sana’a manuscript as a starting point.

4. Texas sharp shooter fallacy.

I didn’t get an answer to the question. How do you know of this unseen world?

Very simple.

Since I believe in those four points, I also believe that Islam and Quran are true. If those are true, then I have to believe in unseen world because Quran says so.

So, my belief in unseen world moves like this:

Stage 1: Belief in God (due to intelligent designs in whole universe).

Stage 2: Belief in Islam (due to various prophecies being fulfilled, multiple scientific and historically accurate statements, and also gut feelings).

Stage 3: Belief in Quran (since Quran is Islamic holy book).

Stage 4: Belief in unseen world and day of judgement (because Quran says so).

 

[Musakhel]

For the 6th time.

How do we distinguish between the truth and a lie following your edict?

No need for specifics. Any statement on any subject.

I’m hoping you will simply answer this directly, rather than trying a very crude attempt at gish gallop.

We use The Quran and Hadith to distinguish between truth and falsehood.

 

[sweep_shot]

What general Eastward direction? Unless Earth is flat, you can never face Mecca by praying to general Eastward direction. With Earth being round, Either you are praying vertically up/down depending on where you are located. Basically you are never facing Kaba unless you are only with in a few hundred kilometers from Mecca.

I am from Ontario. If someone asks me where Quebec is, I say Quebec is in east of Ontario. I don't know what you are trying to imply here.

Even harshest of Islamic critics never accuse us of believing Earth is flat. They generally pick on us over Sharia punishments and other things. Flat Earth is not an Islamic concept and it is a non-issue.

You can claim anything you want. It is comic relief for me.

 

[Technics 1210]

These posts are a thing of beauty.

.

They sure are! Exposing your hypocrisy. You mock others for having faith yet you believe in the unseen to, Abiogenesis for example. Never seen it, never observed it, nothing, yet you believe in it because if fits your flukist narrative. That's how hypocritical your stance is.

Like I said, you seem to be the only one ruffled by the mere mention of God, boy oh boy, you must have had a bad experience in the past, to the extent you are now claiming in 1+1 = 11.

Happy wasting your life seeking others to appease your insecurities, I know I will be sleeping easy at night.

 

[Technics 1210]

Guys, our resident MA holds more faith than any of you who believes in God. God could not convince the fools, so you have no chance (pun fully intended). Let them be. They believe everything is possible and probable except the existence of God. They will waste their lives trying to disprove God only to remember him during their final breathes on Earth. This is how you spot the foolish.

 

[troodon]

I am from Ontario. If someone asks me where Quebec is, I say Quebec is in east of Ontario. Your logic is laughable.

Even harshest of Islamic critics never accuse us of believing Earth is flat. They generally pick on us over Sharia punishments and other things. Flat Earth is not an Islamic concept.

You have some absurd views about Islam and feel free to ask local imams to get clarified.

Yes, you say that Quebec is in the general East direction. But you do not face it by turning East.

Believers are supposed to face Kaaba. So someone in Indonesia can never face Kaaba by turning East. He is only facing outer space by turning East because Earth is not flat

You do not need an Imam to understand this part. I have already posted from the explanation of one of your best Imam (Bukhari).

 

[sweep_shot]

Yes, you say that Quebec is in the general East direction. But you do not face it by turning East.

Believers are supposed to face Kaaba. So someone in Indonesia can never face Kaaba by turning East. He is only facing outer space by turning East because Earth is not flat

You do not need an Imam to understand this part. I have already posted from the explanation of one of your best Imam (Bukhari).

For the last time, we don't believe Earth is flat. You can claim anything you want. If you think you can make our beliefs weaker with your absurd rants, think again.

Have a great day!

 

[troodon]

Look at this part.

﷽67.5. And, indeed, We have adorned the lowest heaven (the heaven of the world) with lamps (stars), and made (out of) them missiles to drive away devils; and for them, We have prepared (in the Hereafter) the punishment of the Blaze.
وَلَقَدْ زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاء الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَجَعَلْنَاهَا رُجُوماً لِّلشَّيَاطِينِ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهُمْ عَذَابَ السَّعِيرِ



So God created Stars in the lowest Heaven as a decoration. This means Stars are very close to Earth. Shooting stars are used as missiles to shoot Devils? Seriously? Do you believe in this too?

 

[sweep_shot]

Look at this part.

﷽67.5. And, indeed, We have adorned the lowest heaven (the heaven of the world) with lamps (stars), and made (out of) them missiles to drive away devils; and for them, We have prepared (in the Hereafter) the punishment of the Blaze.
وَلَقَدْ زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاء الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَجَعَلْنَاهَا رُجُوماً لِّلشَّيَاطِينِ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهُمْ عَذَابَ السَّعِيرِ



So God created Stars in the lowest Heaven as a decoration. This means Stars are very close to Earth. Shooting stars are used as missiles to shoot Devils? Seriously? Do you believe in this too?

Of course!

We believe in seen and unseen. We believe and we obey.

God is our Master.

 

[troodon]

For the last time, we don't believe Earth is flat. You can claim anything you want. If you think you can make our beliefs weaker with your absurd rants, think again.

Have a great day!

I am not going to debate that. But everything I read in Quran points to a flat Earth. Anyways, my argument is about prostrating of Sun below Allah's throne. We have satellites now monitoring Earth and Moon and Sun and none of them have noticed this Prostration claimed in Quran..

 

[troodon]

Of course!

We believe in seen and unseen. We believe and we obey.

God is our Master.

So you believe Stars are very close to Earth? Shooting stars are for shooting Devils in the sky? Are you serious?

 

[sweep_shot]

I am not going to debate that. But everything I read in Quran points to a flat Earth. Anyways, my argument is about prostrating of Sun below Allah's throne. We have satellites now monitoring Earth and Moon and Sun and none of them have noticed this Prostration claimed in Quran..

They prostrate in their own ways.

So you believe Stars are very close to Earth? Shooting stars are for shooting Devils in the sky? Are you serious?

Have you ever thought about wormhole?

How far or how near depends on many things. If there is enough speed, large distance can be traveled within seconds.

What a large distance is to you may not be a large distance to someone else. It is about perspective.

Also, time can move differently for different entities. Theory of relativity.

 

[troodon]

They prostrate in their own ways.



Have you ever thought about wormhole?

How far or how near depends on many things. If there is enough speed, large distance can be traveled in the blink of an eye.

What a large distance is to you may not be a large distance to someone else. It is about perspective.

Prostrating in their own ways? Nobody has seen anything regarding that. Nobody has seen Allah's throne either. You are defending fairy tales.

What has wormhole got to do with Stars being in the lowest heaven? Quran is not talking about Wormholes here. Allah created 7 heavens and put stars in lowest heaven as decorations. We all know Stars are no where close to any of the heavens that Quran is talking about. In any case, Stars are not in 1st or lowest heaven. Quran is wrong here totally.

Coming to shooting stars, Quran answers exactly like how an ignorant person does. Obviously the 7th century Bedouins had no idea about Meteorites. The reason for Shooting Stars AKA Meteorites is obviously wrong. Meteorites burn up when they enter the Atmosphere due to friction. Most never reach ground.
How can you not question any of this?

 

[sweep_shot]

Prostrating in their own ways? Nobody has seen anything regarding that. Nobody has seen Allah's throne either. You are defending fairy tales.

What has wormhole got to do with Stars being in the lowest heaven? Quran is not talking about Wormholes here. Allah created 7 heavens and put stars in lowest heaven as decorations. We all know Stars are no where close to any of the heavens that Quran is talking about. In any case, Stars are not in 1st or lowest heaven. Quran is wrong here totally.

Coming to shooting stars, Quran answers exactly like how an ignorant person does. Obviously the 7th century Bedouins had no idea about Meteorites. The reason for Shooting Stars AKA Meteorites is obviously wrong. Meteorites burn up when they enter the Atmosphere due to friction. Most never reach ground.
How can you not question any of this?

If you make up your own facts, nobody can help you.

Feel free to claim anything you like. If I have any doubt, I go to scholar (not a non-Muslim Google researcher like yourself).

To answer your previous question, we believe in whatever is in the Quran. If you have a problem with that, too bad.

 

[troodon]

If you make up your own facts, nobody can help you.

Feel free to claim anything you like. If I have any doubt, I go to scholar (not a non-Muslim Google researcher like yourself).

To answer your previous question, we believe in whatever is in the Quran. If you have a problem with that, too bad.

I am not making up my own facts. What I am saying are scientific facts. Well known even 7th graders now.

Basically you are a blind believer. I guess you do not believe in Science.

 

[sweep_shot]

I am not making up my own facts. What I am saying are scientific facts. Well known even 7th graders now.

Basically you are a blind believer. I guess you do not believe in Science.

Only scientific theory I reject is evolution theory. I accept everything else. Try again.

I am a blind believer and also a science admirer. I think both can complement each other.

Also, the thing about God is, God is not limited by any scientific law. He has no limitation whatsoever. One and only perfect entity in existence.

 

[troodon]

Only scientific theory I reject is evolution theory. I accept everything else. Try again.

I am a blind believer and also a science admirer. I think both can complement each other.

Science and religion do not complement each other. They are on collision course for a long time now.

Obviously you do not believe in science as you are believing in fairy tales. Shooting stars for shooting Devils in the sky and Stars put in the lowest heaven as decoration for humans to see is not scientific. An all knowing God cannot be so wrong on these basic things.

 

[sweep_shot]

Science and religion do not complement each other. They are on collision course for a long time now.

Obviously you do not believe in science as you are believing in fairy tales. Shooting stars for shooting Devils in the sky and Stars put in the lowest heaven as decoration for humans to see is not scientific. An all knowing God cannot be so wrong on these basic things.

That's your view. Just because you claim something doesn't make it true.

There has been many Muslim scientists over the years.

I believe in all physics laws but I also believe that God can break those laws and get things done if He chooses to. He is not limited (this is a concept you are not understanding).

Only theory I wholeheartedly reject is evolution theory. I think it is one of the biggest scams in human history.

 

[troodon]

That's your view. Just because you claim something doesn't make it true.

There has been many Muslim scientists over the years.

I believe in all physics laws but I also believe that God can break those laws and get things done if He chooses to. He is not limited (this is a concept you are not understanding).

Only theory I wholeheartedly reject is evolution theory. I think it is one of the biggest scams in human history.

Sure! God can bend the laws of Physics.

But God informed human kind that he put stars in lowest heaven which is a lie. God also said that Shooting stars are for shooting Devils in the sky. Also a lie.

Either God is a made up being or it is not all knowing. Your cope up mechanism and refutation of what I brought up is very poor.

I have put forward something that even a 7th grader knows now. If educated folks try to look over the obvious blunders in holy books, then who else will?

 

[sweep_shot]

Sure! God can bend the laws of Physics.

But God informed human kind that he put stars in lowest heaven which is a lie. God also said that Shooting stars are for shooting Devils in the sky. Also a lie.

Either God is a made up being or it is not all knowing. Your cope up mechanism and refutation of what I brought up is very poor.

I have put forward something that even a 7th grader knows now. If educated folks try to look over the obvious blunders in holy books, then who else will?

Who determines that it is a lie? You?

Do you know what are going on in other galaxies right at this moment? You are pretending to know everything about this universe.

You didn't put forward anything meaningful. You are just posting absurd rants. Also, these are beliefs. If you don't agree with it, that's fine. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Robert]

That's your view. Just because you claim something doesn't make it true.

There has been many Muslim scientists over the years.

I believe in all physics laws but I also believe that God can break those laws and get things done if He chooses to. He is not limited (this is a concept you are not understanding).

Only theory I wholeheartedly reject is evolution theory. I think it is one of the biggest scams in human history.

I recommend that you separate religion and science in your mind. Use one for matters of ethics and morality, and the other to explain reality.

And do have another look at evolution, for which there s a mountain of evidence.

 

[troodon]

That's your view. Just because you claim something doesn't make it true.

There has been many Muslim scientists over the years.

I believe in all physics laws but I also believe that God can break those laws and get things done if He chooses to. He is not limited (this is a concept you are not understanding).

Only theory I wholeheartedly reject is evolution theory. I think it is one of the biggest scams in human history.

No qualified Scientist (Muslim or non-Muslim) would ever believe that Stars are in lowest heaven and Shooting Stars are shooting Devils in the sky.

You are defending the obvious lies in your holy book because of your blind faith.

 

[Hbomb00]

No qualified Scientist (Muslim or non-Muslim) would ever believe that Stars are in lowest heaven and Shooting Stars are shooting Devils in the sky.

You are defending the obvious lies in your holy book because of your blind faith.

Dude it's called belief for a reason how can you expect science which is the study of laws of nature and changes from time to time to explain metaphysics.
You sure are interested in what Muslims believe in.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I believed in God when I was not educated. Now by education, I do not mean a university degree but the understanding of the reality and the knowledge of the universe. Despite having western education, I still believed in God until I started questioning my beliefs by asking questions which really bothered me my entire life. I found resources to understand how massive is the universe, how could humans evolve from fish, how far-fetched and silly are the religious tales, etc.

These are my top 10 reasons for not believing in God.

1. There is no proof for the existence of God
The Earth has inhabited several billion people, yet none has an irrefutable proof for the existence of God. Neither is there a testable method that can be used to see, feel, or measure God's presence. Why does God need human messengers to carry out his tasks? What stops him from appearing on the sky globally and proof all skeptics wrong?

2. God and religions are men-made
All religions were simply tools of human revolution against the status quo. Stories mentioned in religious books reflect only what the authors of those times were capable of thinking. Why did the almighty God need a flood to wipe out everyone? Why did the same powerful God need a boat to save a select group of people and animal species? Even I can think of better and more efficient ways of accomplishing all of this if I were the God. Then there were all these mirales which were so frequent in the past. Every second religious figure could demonstrate some kind of miracle. It is no surprise that since science has provided methods of recording and validating phenomenon, these miracles have all disappeared.

3. God is cruel and barbaric
God has killed millions of people as told in the religious stories. God tested Abraham by commanding him to leave his infant son and wife in a dessert with no supplies. Then when that son grew up without his father, God asked Abraham to sacrifice him, only to save him at the last minute. What kind of sick mentality does this God have where he derives pleasure by putting them in unimaginable situations. The same God killed Job's entire family just to prove Satan wrong. Though, we were told that he was give a new family afterwards as if human life can be so easily replaced. The same God who loves you more than your mother will send you in hell to burn for eternity. Even an insignificant human would want to torment another human for eternity (trillions of years).

4. God is inconsistent and confused
He creates then he destroys, the same cycle continues several times. He makes Adam from clay but then he creates Eve from his body. He stops people from working on the Sabbath days, then years later, he abolishes his own order. He lets Muslims pray facing Jerusalem then he tells them to face Kaaba. God is indecisive and can't make up his mind for once.

5. Prayers or other forms of worships to God are useless
If praying to God works then why is not everyone a happy millionaire? If God does not grant all wishes because he knows better then what is the whole point of praying? What is the purpose of reading text or going through motions when 90% of the time you do not even understand it?

6. Religion or selling God is a business
Religion is a very lucrative business. Any half decent religious preacher is easily a millionaire. It is unbelievable that billions of dollars are spent worldwide to construct and run religion institutions which provide no benefit to humanity.

7. God's commandments are impractical
99.99% do not practice what they preach. Religion imposes just too many restrictions which are humanly impossible to follow. Religion does not stop people from killing each other or abusing innocent children withing religious institutions. God's orders sometimes defy all common sense but they have to be followed blindly.

8. God is unnecessary
God was needed in the past just to fill the gaps in the knowledge. If human mind could not comprehend anything, it was attributed to God. Today, we know a lot more about the cosmos, the human evolution, the quantum world, etc. which renders the whole concept of God completely useless. Almost everything can be explained today with a much simpler and testable theory. Things we do not know will be discovered with the passage of time as it has been the case so far.

9. Concept of God crushes free thinking
God wants you to be his slave. He does not want you to use your brain. Curiosity compelled Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. The result was that they were stripped off their clothes and sent to Earth as a punishment. Any discovery or ideology can go to a trash can if it goes against the principles laid out by God.

10. People believe in God because their ancestors believed in him
Lets be honest to ourselves. Majority of Muslims practice Islam because their parents were Muslims. Same is true for Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. There are so many religions to follow. What makes your religion or your interpretation of God any better than others? A catholic Christian born in a Christian family will have as strong a faith on the Holy Trinity as the Muslim born in a Muslim family believing in Prophet Mohammad ascending to the heavens on a horse with wings.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Only scientific theory I reject is evolution theory. I accept everything else. Try again.

I am a blind believer and also a science admirer. I think both can complement each other.

Also, the thing about God is, God is not limited by any scientific law. He has no limitation whatsoever. One and only perfect entity in existence.

Evolution is a fact, whether you like it or not.

Just look at dogs. How different they look from wolves and with each other. That happened in just a few thousand years. Imagine what can happen when we start talking about the time scale spanning billions of years.

 

[Mesozoic]

I believed in God when I was not educated. Now by education, I do not mean a university degree but the understanding of the reality and the knowledge of the universe. Despite having western education, I still believed in God until I started questioning my beliefs by asking questions which really bothered me my entire life. I found resources to understand how massive is the universe, how could humans evolve from fish, how far-fetched and silly are the religious tales, etc.

These are my top 10 reasons for not believing in God.

1. There is no proof for the existence of God
The Earth has inhabited several billion people, yet none has an irrefutable proof for the existence of God. Neither is there a testable method that can be used to see, feel, or measure God's presence. Why does God need human messengers to carry out his tasks? What stops him from appearing on the sky globally and proof all skeptics wrong?

2. God and religions are men-made
All religions were simply tools of human revolution against the status quo. Stories mentioned in religious books reflect only what the authors of those times were capable of thinking. Why did the almighty God need a flood to wipe out everyone? Why did the same powerful God need a boat to save a select group of people and animal species? Even I can think of better and more efficient ways of accomplishing all of this if I were the God. Then there were all these mirales which were so frequent in the past. Every second religious figure could demonstrate some kind of miracle. It is no surprise that since science has provided methods of recording and validating phenomenon, these miracles have all disappeared.

3. God is cruel and barbaric
God has killed millions of people as told in the religious stories. God tested Abraham by commanding him to leave his infant son and wife in a dessert with no supplies. Then when that son grew up without his father, God asked Abraham to sacrifice him, only to save him at the last minute. What kind of sick mentality does this God have where he derives pleasure by putting them in unimaginable situations. The same God killed Job's entire family just to prove Satan wrong. Though, we were told that he was give a new family afterwards as if human life can be so easily replaced. The same God who loves you more than your mother will send you in hell to burn for eternity. Even an insignificant human would want to torment another human for eternity (trillions of years).

4. God is inconsistent and confused
He creates then he destroys, the same cycle continues several times. He makes Adam from clay but then he creates Eve from his body. He stops people from working on the Sabbath days, then years later, he abolishes his own order. He lets Muslims pray facing Jerusalem then he tells them to face Kaaba. God is indecisive and can't make up his mind for once.

5. Prayers or other forms of worships to God are useless
If praying to God works then why is not everyone a happy millionaire? If God does not grant all wishes because he knows better then what is the whole point of praying? What is the purpose of reading text or going through motions when 90% of the time you do not even understand it?

6. Religion or selling God is a business
Religion is a very lucrative business. Any half decent religious preacher is easily a millionaire. It is unbelievable that billions of dollars are spent worldwide to construct and run religion institutions which provide no benefit to humanity.

7. God's commandments are impractical
99.99% do not practice what they preach. Religion imposes just too many restrictions which are humanly impossible to follow. Religion does not stop people from killing each other or abusing innocent children withing religious institutions. God's orders sometimes defy all common sense but they have to be followed blindly.

8. God is unnecessary
God was needed in the past just to fill the gaps in the knowledge. If human mind could not comprehend anything, it was attributed to God. Today, we know a lot more about the cosmos, the human evolution, the quantum world, etc. which renders the whole concept of God completely useless. Almost everything can be explained today with a much simpler and testable theory. Things we do not know will be discovered with the passage of time as it has been the case so far.

9. Concept of God crushes free thinking
God wants you to be his slave. He does not want you to use your brain. Curiosity compelled Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. The result was that they were stripped off their clothes and sent to Earth as a punishment. Any discovery or ideology can go to a trash can if it goes against the principles laid out by God.

10. People believe in God because their ancestors believed in him
Lets be honest to ourselves. Majority of Muslims practice Islam because their parents were Muslims. Same is true for Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. There are so many religions to follow. What makes your religion or your interpretation of God any better than others? A catholic Christian born in a Christian family will have as strong a faith on the Holy Trinity as the Muslim born in a Muslim family believing in Prophet Mohammad ascending to the heavens on a horse with wings.

POTW.

 

[Robert]

[MENTION=139975]The_Odd_One[/MENTION] - your point 8 is persuasive - God is simply not necessary for the Universe to be the way it is.

Stellar evolution, planetary evolution and biological evolution are more parsimonious explanations for the way things appear to be than some creator which violates the principle of creation by somehow being self-creating and for which there is no empirical evidence at all.

 

[Akki malhotra]

I need Arabic to pray and I also read Quran in Arabic. Don't worry about me. Stay on topic.

Why need arabic to pray? One cannot pray in English or hindi if he belongs to other regions? God is almighty so there should not be language barrier I guess