Do you believe that the Non-Muslim world wants to destroy Muslim countries?

[Moiza]

It is very rare to see Pakistanis agree on something collectively but this topic seems to be the uniting force between people of all sects, provinces and political parties. For someone who has lived in Pakistan it is impossible to agree with the fact that almost everyone in the country is of the opinion that the "West's" primary focus is to destabilize the Muslims countries and they don't want to see us prosper. I have heard many reason about this statement from people of different backgrounds, income levels and education levels, and the general theme has always been on the lines that Islam is the only true religion and the non muslims know this and are afraid that it might spread to their land too. There are other reasons too but generally you'll get this answer.

Personally I dont agree with this. I'm not very well educated on the political history and current political scene in the middle east but I believe that the invasions of Muslims countries had little to do with them being muslims and more to do with the location of their country and/or the natural resources it possessed, the invasion would have taken place regardless of who was living there. My reason to have this view is that the world as a whole is moving away from religion, some countries faster than the others, so in the grand scheme of things I doubt anyone even considers the religion of a country anymore. You can't be motivated to destroy a country for being muslims if you dont believe in religion in the first place.

I could definitely be wrong on this, these are just my views on the whole situation.

 

[Rayyman]

Only Trump's America, India, and Israel.

 

[troodon]

Only Trump's America, India, and Israel.

India wants to destroy Muslim countries?

 

[Vorador]

I have never been able to get the argument that the "Westerners" know that Islam is the one true religion and therefore want to destroy it. Why would anyone want to destroy a religion BELIEVING in its truthfulness? I have only seen people dying and killing for the religion they believe to be the true one, not destroying the religion itself.

@OP: Pakistanis are a crazy, ignorant, paranoid lot. I concur with everything you have said and have noticed the same theme regarding West's obsession with destroying the Muslim world from all segments of the population.

 

[Syed1]

Our only enemies are India and Israel. The US and Russia look after their own interests. If we align with them then bhai-bhai otherwise app kaun mein kaun. China is are only true friend, however, there are no permanent friends or foes in world politics. Turkey and Pakistan are ideologically very similar and are natural allies. We should stay and arm's length away from all Arab countries.


The only two countries we have to be wary off are India and Israel. India for obvious reasons. Israel because Pakistan is the only Muslim nuclear country in the world and a constant threat to Israel if we chose to go down that path. In case people didn't know, at the time Pakistan was conducting nuclear tests Pakistani radars spotted F-16s within Indian airspace near the Pakistani border. India has ZERO F-16s however, Israel has plenty of them.


We also need to be wary of India's poodles like Afghanistan and Bangladesh.

 

[ExpressPacer]

It depends. Sometimes you have every reason to believe that the whole world is conspiring against you and some days you think of how big a fool you are to think that way. You see, it depends. Nobody is oblivious to the fact that Al Qaeda, the parent of all Jihadi terrorist organisations and groups is a birth of the West - which in itself leads to many conspiracy theories.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Only Trump's America, India, and Israel.

India has more Muslims in India than anywhere in the world so that's a pretty funny statement. It would backfire.

 

[dauntless]

One thing I can tell I have seen many Indians wants to kill Muslims their hatred towards Muslims is beyond imagination and some Muslims wants to kill Hindus too

 

[Syed1]

One thing I can tell I have seen many Indians wants to kill Muslims their hatred towards Muslims is beyond imagination and some Muslims wants to kill Hindus too

What is the historical reason for this hate. The states of Pakistan and India are in a state of war not because of religion but because of Kashmir. If it wasn't for Kashmir then our founding father himself said "India should be the country with which you have the best relations".

However, the hate existed long before partition and it is the reason why partition was demanded.

These same Hindus and Muslims from their respective countries when they meet in the western world become best buddies.

 

[Rayyman]

India has more Muslims in India than anywhere in the world so that's a pretty funny statement. It would backfire.

India is not a Muslim country.

 

[Adil_94]

the Non-Muslim world that is such a broad range of countries and no i dont think the rest of the world wants to destroy the Muslim World.

The Muslim World is such a diverse place you don't see the U.S or Britain having any interest in Indonesia the Worlds most populous Muslim country. The issue is more to do with Great Power politics strategic importance of the Middle East and of course its natural resources. So the interference in Middle Eastern countries is often to protect Great Power interests strategically and economically if you are willing to do business with them then likes of U.S UK France will do business with you.

The U.S supported Saudi in the 50s and 60s giving them billions in aid to prop them up as an alternative to Pan-Arabism that was sweeping across the region that was vehemently anti-Imperialist and a secular ideology but because it threatened western interests and also because Nasser the figurehead of Pan-Arabism was socialist and pro-Soviet the U.S supported Saudi Wahhabism as an alternative to Arab Nationalism. Even in the 80s the U.S supported Islamist Jihadists against the USSR in Afghanistan to further their geo strategic goals.

Their biggest allies in the MENA are conservative Islamic monarchies in the Gulf yes in terms of Foreign Policy you cam say these states are in line with the U.S generally but domestically they are pretty conservative and dont exactly promote liberal democracy and have a pretty poor Human Rights Record. But Western govts arent really putting them under pressure to change because they are important allies.

 

[DW44]

Our only enemies are India and Israel. The US and Russia look after their own interests. If we align with them then bhai-bhai otherwise app kaun mein kaun. China is are only true friend, however, there are no permanent friends or foes in world politics. Turkey and Pakistan are ideologically very similar and are natural allies. We should stay and arm's length away from all Arab countries.


The only two countries we have to be wary off are India and Israel. India for obvious reasons. Israel because Pakistan is the only Muslim nuclear country in the world and a constant threat to Israel if we chose to go down that path. In case people didn't know, at the time Pakistan was conducting nuclear tests Pakistani radars spotted F-16s within Indian airspace near the Pakistani border. India has ZERO F-16s however, Israel has plenty of them.


We also need to be wary of India's poodles like Afghanistan and Bangladesh.

Israel? How? The F-16 incident was 3 decades ago and back channel relations improved to the point where they actually supplied spares for our F-16s(the irony is obvious) through intermediaries in Oman and Sri Lanka back when we were sanctioned by the US in the 90s. Until at least the Mush era, ISI and Mossad were sharing intelligence concerning terrorists.

 

[Moiza]

What is the historical reason for this hate. The states of Pakistan and India are in a state of war not because of religion but because of Kashmir. If it wasn't for Kashmir then our founding father himself said "India should be the country with which you have the best relations".

However, the hate existed long before partition and it is the reason why partition was demanded.

These same Hindus and Muslims from their respective countries when they meet in the western world become best buddies.

The current hate has a lot to do with the fact that for 8-10 year of our lives in school we are taught and reminded of the killings done at the time of partition and clearly ignoring the killings done by muslims in different areas of Pakistan, the number of people killed by muslims were much less than the number of people killed by hindus but you have to also take population different into account. I'm not advocating that we forget about these acts at the time of partition but integrating them into our lives at this scale is only holding us back. Almost 80% of Pakistan either borders with India or Afghanistan and I dont see how we can even imagine to move forward without having good relations with either country.

As far as the issue of Kashmir is concerned, a normal kashmiri isn't concerned with which country lays claim on them rather they are concerned about having drinking water, electricity and other necessities of life available to them. Mangla dam is in Mirpur but despite that many areas of Kashmir barely get electricity for 5-6 hours a day. My village is only 130 km from Islamabad but it takes 7 hours to get there due to the beautiful roads that are in place, as far as electricity is concerned, there is none for 15 hours a day.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Yeah right. Most muslim countries are a nuisance for western countries these days. They probably just want muslim countries to sober up and get their houses in order.

 

[Robert]

Yeah right. Most muslim countries are a nuisance for western countries these days. They probably just want muslim countries to sober up and get their houses in order.

This. Deal with the West, or with Russia. That's all.

 

[Musakhel]

There are two groups, the nationalist and the globalist, nationalistic governments are not intent on destroying muslims nations, Globalist however wan't to bring the world under their global hegemony, this 2nd group is a cancer for much of the developing world regardless of religion.

 

[Zak_Fan]

One thing I can tell I have seen many Indians wants to kill Muslims their hatred towards Muslims is beyond imagination and some Muslims wants to kill Hindus too

Actually, it is more of a Muslim thing to make friends or foes on religious grounds. There are many Muslim countries, but Indian hatred is reserved exclusively for Pakistan. Syed's post above explains why it is the case.

 

[enkidu_]

It's the Anglo American imperialism which has been targeting Islamic nations recently (but not only), esp. socialist and resources rich ones, to impose its nefarious agenda (capitalist exploitation/bourgeois morality/liberal heresies). India-Pakistan is like cousins' war in the Maha-Bharata, it's bound to heal with time (even though with all the hate distilled it will take decades) ; but the Anglo American imperialism is the perennial dialectic enemy of all mankind.

 

[www787]

destroy? No!
Control? Yes! in the name of democracy (oil, mineral, and geopolitics)

 

[Moiza]

destroy? No!
Control? Yes! in the name of democracy (oil, mineral, and geopolitics)

The main question isnt whether they want to destroy or control, the question is that if they want to destroy/control us because we are muslims or for other reasons.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

It's the Anglo American imperialism which has been targeting Islamic nations recently (but not only), esp. socialist and resources rich ones, to impose its nefarious agenda (capitalist exploitation/bourgeois morality/liberal heresies). India-Pakistan is like cousins' war in the Maha-Bharata, it's bound to heal with time (even though with all the hate distilled it will take decades) ; but the Anglo American imperialism is the perennial dialectic enemy of all mankind.

I'm not sure about this
America didn't enter world war 2 until pearl harbour
And didnt enter into the war against Muslim miliitants until after 911

Then we have the American influence in northern ireland etc


The war at the moment seems to be Chinese centric and taking away China's pit bulls by diplomacy
Islamic resistance is more a cultural and divert operation to maintain the pretence of America as a light beacon of human rights

 

[GenericBrand]

India's gripe is with Pakistan, not Muslim nations in general.

 

[enkidu_]

I'm not sure about this
America didn't enter world war 2 until pearl harbour
And didnt enter into the war against Muslim miliitants until after 911

Then we have the American influence in northern ireland etc


The war at the moment seems to be Chinese centric and taking away China's pit bulls by diplomacy
Islamic resistance is more a cultural and divert operation to maintain the pretence of America as a light beacon of human rights

Pearl Harbour was fake, read on it. Roosevelt was a fox.

The Anglo American hawks didn't attack Islam until the '91 Gulf War (it didn't began with 9/11, contrarily to their propaganda) for a simple reason : the Soviet Union acted as a counter-power to the US hegemon so they didn't have the latitude to act as the bully they are.

I also agree that China is their target, but that doesn't mean they can exert their Satanic plans outside that geopolitical frame, and in fact those are often linked (the war on Libya is a good case : it was to destitute the national socialist leader, colonel Al Qadhafi, and his ideal of a free Africa, but it was also a mean to hit the 18 billions dollars worth of Chinese investments, which went to dust with the democratic bombings.)

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Pearl Harbour was fake, read on it. Roosevelt was a fox.

The Anglo American hawks didn't attack Islam until the '91 Gulf War (it didn't began with 9/11, contrarily to their propaganda) for a simple reason : the Soviet Union acted as a counter-power to the US hegemon so they didn't have the latitude to act as the bully they are.

I also agree that China is their target, but that doesn't mean they can exert their Satanic plans outside that geopolitical frame, and in fact those are often linked (the war on Libya is a good case : it was to destitute the national socialist leader, colonel Al Qadhafi, and his ideal of a free Africa, but it was also a mean to hit the 18 billions dollars worth of Chinese investments, which went to dust with the democratic bombings.)

The confederates flag,the backing of Kurds , the invasion of Iraq to prop up the Iranians into having leverage in the region
The use of the Arab spring to influence Arab countries into paranoia about Islamic democracy are all signs of anti Muslim behaviour
But I don't think America itself has any goals to claim back Christian land in the Arab world

 

[PakLFC]

Israel, America and many Muslim leaders like Nawaz Sharif want to destroy and divide Muslim countries for various reasons. India may want to do so as well not realising the implications it will have on it's own country. Every country Muslim or not has enemies. The problem here is that where as non Muslim leaders are loyal to their own country Muslim ones are the greatest enemies of their own people and countries. Muslim countries don't need external threats when they have leaders like Nawaz Sharif and Zardari.

 

[Moiza]

Israel, America and many Muslim leaders like Nawaz Sharif want to destroy and divide Muslim countries for various reasons. India may want to do so as well not realising the implications it will have on it's own country. Every country Muslim or not has enemies. The problem here is that where as non Muslim leaders are loyal to their own country Muslim ones are the greatest enemies of their own people and countries. Muslim countries don't need external threats when they have leaders like Nawaz Sharif and Zardari.

What reasons?

 

[Justcrazy]

The zionist intention to rule the world would be fulfilled only when Muslims are taken out of power completely.

 

[PakLFC]

What reasons?

Be paid for destroying their own country for starters. Everyone knows that Nawaz kisses up to Modi and has business interest in India.

 

[blue_champion]

India is not a Muslim country.

India is not a Hindu country either.....it is a secular state and there are more muslims in India then they are in Pakistan.

I don't know where you get your info fed from about India wanting to destroy muslim countries. You have the power of the internet clearly as you have access to the forum,I suggest expand your knowledge Lol

 

[blue_champion]

Our only enemies are India and Israel. The US and Russia look after their own interests. If we align with them then bhai-bhai otherwise app kaun mein kaun. China is are only true friend, however, there are no permanent friends or foes in world politics. Turkey and Pakistan are ideologically very similar and are natural allies. We should stay and arm's length away from all Arab countries.


The only two countries we have to be wary off are India and Israel. India for obvious reasons. Israel because Pakistan is the only Muslim nuclear country in the world and a constant threat to Israel if we chose to go down that path. In case people didn't know, at the time Pakistan was conducting nuclear tests Pakistani radars spotted F-16s within Indian airspace near the Pakistani border. India has ZERO F-16s however, Israel has plenty of them.


We also need to be wary of India's poodles like Afghanistan and Bangladesh.

This distorted view of world affairs is scary...India sure I can understand,border disputes and histprical reasons and all but Israel really?

Is it because of Muslim brother hood and Palestine dispute because apart from that I am not sure why Pakistan needs to be wary of Israel....apart from fringe terrorist groups from Pakistan,not sure Israel should have personal issues with Pakistan,unless Pakistan has an issue with them for the reasons mentioned.

Israel has problems with Iran and so does Pakistan,so not sure why most Pakistanis get all hyped up about Israel lol

Israel-Palestine is an internal dispute,not sure what Pakistan's interest there is.

As much as India has a problem with minority abuse in Bangladesh especially with regards to the Hindu community there,on a political and diplomatic level India and Bangladesh have cordial relations.

Still don't get Pakistan's gripe with Israel, I mean apart from terror groups coming out of Pakistan,I don't think Israel has anything personal

 

[Madplayer]

India's gripe is with Pakistan, not Muslim nations in general.

Indians support Israel against Palestine too but that might be due to good strategic and diplomatic relations between India and Israel. Still the hatred some Indians spew against Palestine looks unwarranted. Maybe they see Palestine's case similar to Kashmir's.

 

[blue_champion]

Indians support Israel against Palestine too but that might be due to good strategic and diplomatic relations between India and Israel. Still the hatred some Indians spew against Palestine looks unwarranted. Maybe they see Palestine's case similar to Kashmir's.

Not really....Yes Israel is India's strategic partner but there are a lot who are sympathetic to the Palestine cause....some look at it this way that Israel is defending it's sovereignty.There is no real motive behind the hatred.

Israel is a partner and obviously India will support them,not because of a personal vendetta or racial/religious bias

 

[LastManstanding]

Indians support Israel against Palestine too but that might be due to good strategic and diplomatic relations between India and Israel. Still the hatred some Indians spew against Palestine looks unwarranted. Maybe they see Palestine's case similar to Kashmir's.

The attitude changed after Kargil war when Israel supplied much needed artillery shells to India at a very short notice.

 

[Madplayer]

Not really....Yes Israel is India's strategic partner but there are a lot who are sympathetic to the Palestine cause....some look at it this way that Israel is defending it's sovereignty.There is no real motive behind the hatred.

Israel is a partner and obviously India will support them,not because of a personal vendetta or racial/religious bias

True. But you need to hear some Indians talk on the subject to know what i'm saying. But Then again i said "some" Indians.

 

[Madplayer]

The attitude changed after Kargil war when Israel supplied much needed artillery shells to India at a very short notice.

Yes many benefitted from indo-pak war except India and Pakistan.

 

[JaDed]

True. But you need to hear some Indians talk on the subject to know what i'm saying. But Then again i said "some" Indians.

They don't talk on the subject,they have no knowledge on the subject they sprout nonsense on it and copy paste crap,have seen it in social media multiple times.

Israel is a strategic partner no doubt required too considering Pakistan traditionally used to get support from the Muslim world but one would be surprised to see how in our own hillstation we get treated as 2nd class citizens because of these "tourists".

If these "people" on social media ever met these Israeli tourists I can assure they would make 180 turn and start supporting Palestine but alas we do require their country as a defense partner.

 

[Zahid87]

What is the historical reason for this hate. The states of Pakistan and India are in a state of war not because of religion but because of Kashmir. If it wasn't for Kashmir then our founding father himself said "India should be the country with which you have the best relations".

However, the hate existed long before partition and it is the reason why partition was demanded.

These same Hindus and Muslims from their respective countries when they meet in the western world become best buddies.

If there is a deep, in-built hatred of Hindus and Muslims for each other, then India would not be able to survive as a country. There are 180m Muslims in the country. Never mind the population ratio, but in just absolute terms, it is a huge number. Bigger than the population of most countries.

If 180m people are hated, discriminated against, and are generally at odds with the rest of the population, then the country would always be at the brink of civil war.

We know that is not the case, despite India's integration issues. There is no in built hatred which makes it impossible for Hindus and Muslims to live together.

Partition was a one off phenomenon. The causes and affects that led to it were a product of its time.

I would like to think that society has moved on in a way that a Hindu, a Sikh, and a Muslim in Delhi/Lahore can now interact with each other on a daily basis in the same language, and realise that the problems or struggles they face in life are pretty much the same.

If it is still the case that two neighbours who have lived next to each other for years can still get riled up so much over their religious differences, to the extent that they decide that they don't even belong in the same country anymore, it would show how little we have been able to progress in 70 years.

 

[big_gamer007]

They don't talk on the subject,they have no knowledge on the subject they sprout nonsense on it and copy paste crap,have seen it in social media multiple times.

Israel is a strategic partner no doubt required too considering Pakistan traditionally used to get support from the Muslim world but one would be surprised to see how in our own hillstation we get treated as 2nd class citizens because of these "tourists".

If these "people" on social media ever met these Israeli tourists I can assure they would make 180 turn and start supporting Palestine but alas we do require their country as a defense partner.

Lol no the Israeli's at the hill stations are pretty cool.. You might have met someone who might have been a jerk but he was a jerk not an Israeli.. Also it's not Israeli's fault that the local Indians in those hill stations prefer Israelis in their restaurants and hotels...

 

[big_gamer007]

Only Trump's America, India, and Israel.

Lol nah mate India is cool with most Muslim countries.. We only got a problem with Pakistan and that's because of various reasons.. maybe one day that would be resolved too who knows..

 

[ExpressPacer]

What is the historical reason for this hate. The states of Pakistan and India are in a state of war not because of religion but because of Kashmir. If it wasn't for Kashmir then our founding father himself said "India should be the country with which you have the best relations".

However, the hate existed long before partition and it is the reason why partition was demanded.

These same Hindus and Muslims from their respective countries when they meet in the western world become best buddies.

Maybe because Kashmir is a Muslims Majority area and the Indian (Hindu) Army continues to kill people incessantly. I don't know about you but I don't think any Muslim would take it positively if another poor, innocent Muslim is killed and tortured for no reason especially if you're a minority in that country.

Let me remind you, Muslims may be a large minority but most definitely are a minority. India can make claims of harmonizing the country and boast about being the worlds biggest democracy and what not but the truth is that minorities suffer the most in India. And I'm not talking primarily about Muslims. I've met hundreds of Sikhs across the world and the majority of them hate India. They don't call themselves as Indians, rather Punjabis. Their identity is Punjabi and they want Khalistan, not India. Khalistan would have been reality if not for some stupid Pakistani politicians.

As for Muslims, I'm sure I don't need to say anything about the Kashmiri Muslims and their turmoil but if we are to speak of the ones in other parts of the country then let me remind you, the ones that we see on the TV and on social media speaking highly of India are the ones that enjoy the status of being elites and don't have financial problems but if you go and ask the people in Gujarat, then you'll get a better picture of what it is going on.

 

[Hail-Akram]

My answer to OP would be NO. yes, there is a race for countries trying to control other nations; but the fight is for the geo-strategic location or for the resources... after all Muslim countries own bulk of the oil reserves !
But if you ask me whether some countries want to destroy certain countries just for the religion, it's a big joke. Nobody really cares much about what is the religion for a country as long as own interests are protected - Neither the USofA, nor the evil Israel and certainly not India where Muslims even get a Hajj subsidy that probably no other country gives.

Plus ... no body really needs to destroy the Muslim countries. They have their very own religious leaders, Talibans and ISIS to do the job. Sunnis are out to destroy Shia's... Ahmedias and Sufis are targeted by the very own Muslim brothers. Do you really need any outsiders to do the job ?

 

[JaDed]

Maybe because Kashmir is a Muslims Majority area and the Indian (Hindu) Army continues to kill people incessantly. I don't know about you but I don't think any Muslim would take it positively if another poor, innocent Muslim is killed and tortured for no reason especially if you're a minority in that country.

Let me remind you, Muslims may be a large minority but most definitely are a minority. India can make claims of harmonizing the country and boast about being the worlds biggest democracy and what not but the truth is that minorities suffer the most in India. And I'm not talking primarily about Muslims. I've met hundreds of Sikhs across the world and the majority of them hate India. They don't call themselves as Indians, rather Punjabis. Their identity is Punjabi and they want Khalistan, not India. Khalistan would have been reality if not for some stupid Pakistani politicians.

As for Muslims, I'm sure I don't need to say anything about the Kashmiri Muslims and their turmoil but if we are to speak of the ones in other parts of the country then let me remind you, the ones that we see on the TV and on social media speaking highly of India are the ones that enjoy the status of being elites and don't have financial problems but if you go and ask the people in Gujarat, then you'll get a better picture of what it is going on.

Hearsay is the worst of mistakes that leads to assumptions,its always better to back up with facts,there are enough Sikhs in this very forum who would rip apart your theory,the ones you meet outside India are not Indias concern,similar to Balochs.

Gujarati Muslims might have issues but go ask them if they ever preferred in Pakistan and you would get your answer,even the Gujarati Muslims in and around GTA will rip your theory again.

Also a lot of people have regional identity in India nothing wrong with it from Tamilians to Malayalees,Gujarathis,Marathis,Bengalis we are proud of that distinction ofcourse hard for you to understand.

There are more than 1.3 billion people in India ofcourse many of them are not going to be happy but that doesn't mean majority of them dislike India they just want the systems to improve and accountability to increase.

 

[JaDed]

Lol no the Israeli's at the hill stations are pretty cool.. You might have met someone who might have been a jerk but he was a jerk not an Israeli.. Also it's not Israeli's fault that the local Indians in those hill stations prefer Israelis in their restaurants and hotels...

I have met them when they weren't high and found them to be obnoxious and rude,not sure if theres a difference in their attitude otherwisem

 

[CricketCartoons]

I have met them when they weren't high and found them to be obnoxious and rude,not sure if theres a difference in their attitude otherwisem

How many of them did you meet?

 

[JaDed]

How many of them did you meet?

Not here for ur sample size statistics y not just try going urself ,they should start coming soon unless they decided not to leave.

Also how come u never ask that question to ureself.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Not here for ur sample size statistics y not just try going urself ,they should start coming soon unless they decided not to leave.

Also how come u never ask that question to ureself.

Ok, so you concede that your opinion is not based on facts and is mere conjecture.

 

[JaDed]

Ok, so you concede that your opinion is not based on facts and is mere conjecture.

Its based on facts but its based on a sample size not enough to generalize if that's what u r asking.

 

[Hail-Akram]

Maybe because Kashmir is a Muslims Majority area and the Indian (Hindu) Army continues to kill people incessantly. I don't know about you but I don't think any Muslim would take it positively if another poor, innocent Muslim is killed and tortured for no reason especially if you're a minority in that country.

I don't think ANYBODY in his right mind would take it positively if another innocent human IRRESPECTIVE OF RELIGION is killed and tortured for no reason. I don't know what is Islam's view on this, but in my opinion the religion of the victim shouldn't really matter.

I've met hundreds of Sikhs across the world and the majority of them hate India.

I don't really care what hundreds of Sikhs or Hindus or Muslims or Christians across the world think. What matters is what the "Indian" Sikhs or Hindus or Muslims or Christians think. Talking about Sikhs, India has had a Sikh Prime Minister for a decade and also had Presidents who were Muslim or Sikh or Christian. Even heads of Army commands who have been Sikh or Muslim etc.

 

[Mughal]

People who wish to debate conflicts between people they should first learn the main reasons for their hatred for each other and how they came to that end as well as what can unite them and why or how. I have explained things in detail to help people understand the basics HERE.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It is very rare to see Pakistanis agree on something collectively but this topic seems to be the uniting force between people of all sects, provinces and political parties. For someone who has lived in Pakistan it is impossible to agree with the fact that almost everyone in the country is of the opinion that the "West's" primary focus is to destabilize the Muslims countries and they don't want to see us prosper. I have heard many reason about this statement from people of different backgrounds, income levels and education levels, and the general theme has always been on the lines that Islam is the only true religion and the non muslims know this and are afraid that it might spread to their land too. There are other reasons too but generally you'll get this answer.

Personally I dont agree with this. I'm not very well educated on the political history and current political scene in the middle east but I believe that the invasions of Muslims countries had little to do with them being muslims and more to do with the location of their country and/or the natural resources it possessed, the invasion would have taken place regardless of who was living there. My reason to have this view is that the world as a whole is moving away from religion, some countries faster than the others, so in the grand scheme of things I doubt anyone even considers the religion of a country anymore. You can't be motivated to destroy a country for being muslims if you dont believe in religion in the first place.

I could definitely be wrong on this, these are just my views on the whole situation.

I think western countries can quite happily co-exist with Muslim countries as long as their own interests are served. But apart from just economic considerations, there is also the desire for all parts of the world to conform to western ideals with regard to Human Rights and every effort is made to ensure all countries comply with that. Islamic countries are probably at the forefront of those countries which fail to comply with issues such as western ideals on women's rights, gay rights, social liberty, censorship and so on. So it's fair to say there is an ideological struggle going on. Not restricted to just Islamic nations though, that is happening to some extent with countries like China and India as well.

 

[Chrish]

India has more Muslims in India than anywhere in the world.

That doesn't mean they live there happily with other groups

From my experience Hindus and Muslims aren't fond of each other regardless of the nationality.. kinda like Jews and Muslims in general

 

[Chrish]

Only Trump's America.

Anti-Muslim sentiment came into place after 9/11..Trump is just more vocal about that

In fact the main reason for people not voting for Hillary was becase of her planning of accepting more Syrian refugees I reckon

 

[ExpressPacer]

I don't think ANYBODY in his right mind would take it positively if another innocent human IRRESPECTIVE OF RELIGION is killed and tortured for no reason. I don't know what is Islam's view on this, but in my opinion the religion of the victim shouldn't really matter.


I don't really care what hundreds of Sikhs or Hindus or Muslims or Christians across the world think. What matters is what the "Indian" Sikhs or Hindus or Muslims or Christians think. Talking about Sikhs, India has had a Sikh Prime Minister for a decade and also had Presidents who were Muslim or Sikh or Christian. Even heads of Army commands who have been Sikh or Muslim etc.

That gives them all the more reason to be more fed up with the govt.

 

[Swanny]

Yes India wants to destroy all Muslim nations except you know BD, Iran, Afganistan,Indonesia, Gulf States, etc who are close allies . Somebody is crazy paranoid

 

[PakLFC]

India is not a Hindu country either.....it is a secular state and there are more muslims in India then they are in Pakistan.
I don't know where you get your info fed from about India wanting to destroy muslim countries. You have the power of the internet clearly as you have access to the forum,I suggest expand your knowledge Lol

Wrong! Indian's often use the bolded part to prove some point. There are more Muslim's in Pak then Hind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

 

[Swanny]

Also Turkey has decent relationship with India or atleast did before Erdogan went full Erdogan

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes India wants to destroy all Muslim nations except you know BD, Iran, Afganistan,Indonesia, Gulf States, etc who are close allies . Somebody is crazy paranoid

I don't think the OP was mentioning India much. Might be you who is paranoid.

 

[Varun]

The only two countries we have to be wary off are India and Israel. India for obvious reasons. Israel because Pakistan is the only Muslim nuclear country in the world and a constant threat to Israel if we chose to go down that path. In case people didn't know, at the time Pakistan was conducting nuclear tests Pakistani radars spotted F-16s within Indian airspace near the Pakistani border. India has ZERO F-16s however, Israel has plenty of them.

Why so emotional over Israel - Palestine? It's an endless squabble taking place a million miles away. If you use your head, you'll realize that Israel is the brainy one and worth befriending. Palestine is like a penny stock in comparison. No amount of money or time invested will yield you any returns - I don't see Palestine or any of the Gulf countries rushing to Pakistan's aid during their many disputes with India, for example. They've just been silent bystanders at best. Which I suspect is more of a surprise to Pakistan than it is for India.

 

[Swanny]

I don't think the OP was mentioning India much. Might be you who is paranoid.

I obviously meant Rayyman who mentioned US, Israel & India as countries who want the muslim countries destroyed.

Personally I think the western countries are the ones who are the most capable of this.

 

[Moiza]

Why would a country like Israel, a country light years ahead of the Muslims in every department, be concerned with a country which burns down itself when some dude upload a video on YouTube? Muslims in general don't want to take any blame so in order to justify their centuries long shortcomings they blame it all on the Jews or the Americans.

Many Pakistanis, at home and abroad, have very big misconceptions about the status of Pakistan on the global stage. Many make statements which suggest that the western world is afraid of our nukes but considering the advancement of the western countries I don't belive we have the capabilities of getting are nukes into their airspace let alone cause them any harm. Nukes are a definite concern for India but no western county in their right mind would be concerned about nuclear warfare with Pakistan.

 

[troodon]

What will West or India get by destroying Muslim countries?

 

[Swanny]

Why so emotional over Israel - Palestine? It's an endless squabble taking place a million miles away. If you use your head, you'll realize that Israel is the brainy one and worth befriending. Palestine is like a penny stock in comparison. No amount of money or time invested will yield you any returns - I don't see Palestine or any of the Gulf countries rushing to Pakistan's aid during their many disputes with India, for example. They've just been silent bystanders at best. Which I suspect is more of a surprise to Pakistan than it is for India.

Israel wouldn't support a muslim country thoough. Only muslim country who they have an OK relationship are the Saudis mainly becoz of the US influence & the Saudis need people to aid against the Iranians especially since Saudis & Iranians are fighting a brutal proxy war in Yemen. Also as Iran ramps up it's oil production they are a threat to the Saudi markets.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump's recent hard anti Iranian stance is a result of Israelis & Saudis demanding him to do something.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why would a country like Israel, a country light years ahead of the Muslims in every department, be concerned with a country which burns down itself when some dude upload a video on YouTube? Muslims in general don't want to take any blame so in order to justify their centuries long shortcomings they blame it all on the Jews or the Americans.

Many Pakistanis, at home and abroad, have very big misconceptions about the status of Pakistan on the global stage. Many make statements which suggest that the western world is afraid of our nukes but considering the advancement of the western countries I don't belive we have the capabilities of getting are nukes into their airspace let alone cause them any harm. Nukes are a definite concern for India but no western county in their right mind would be concerned about nuclear warfare with Pakistan.

I don't really understand the logic. In your OP you said that the people in Pakistan were convinced the West are trying to destroy the Muslim countries because "they don't want to see us prosper". Then you go on to say that "the general theme has always been on the lines that Islam is the only true religion and the non muslims know this and are afraid that it might spread to their land too"

If Islam is making Pakistanis so prosperous, why would the non-Muslims be scared of it spreading to the West? Also if it's true that Pakistanis are that deluded, why would they try to emigrate to non-Muslim countries? Surely it should be the other way round?

Maybe I'm misreading it but you can clarify if that's the case.

 

[Moiza]

I don't really understand the logic. In your OP you said that the people in Pakistan were convinced the West are trying to destroy the Muslim countries because "they don't want to see us prosper". Then you go on to say that "the general theme has always been on the lines that Islam is the only true religion and the non muslims know this and are afraid that it might spread to their land too"

If Islam is making Pakistanis so prosperous, why would the non-Muslims be scared of it spreading to the West? Also if it's true that Pakistanis are that deluded, why would they try to emigrate to non-Muslim countries? Surely it should be the other way round?

Maybe I'm misreading it but you can clarify if that's the case.

Well, Islam leading us to prosperity is something that has not been achieved since the West has never let us stay on the course long enough for us to achieve that so you can't conclude if it actually will or not. This is what the general population think. As far as the hypocrisy goes, this thread was made to address things like that. I don't agree with the general opinion because I can't bring myself the belive that the whole world is concerned with not letting the Muslim prosper.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=137488]Swanny[/MENTION] Israel want their neighbours to accept them and want peace they are willing to do business for peace. And having the only nuclear armed Muslim state like Pakistan agreeing to recognising Israel and making peace with them would be a major coup for them rather than having eternal hostility with Pakistan . Israels strategy is to try to get GCC countries to ally with them against Iran who both see as their biggest threat. For GCC on an ideological level and for Israel on a military level.

 

[big_gamer007]

I have met them when they weren't high and found them to be obnoxious and rude,not sure if theres a difference in their attitude otherwisem

Not sure maybe the ones you met were like that.. I travel a lot to these hill stations once or twice every month and have met plenty of people from Israel all seemed pretty cool to me..

 

[Swanny]

[MENTION=137488]Swanny[/MENTION] Israel want their neighbours to accept them and want peace they are willing to do business for peace. And having the only nuclear armed Muslim state like Pakistan agreeing to recognising Israel and making peace with them would be a major coup for them rather than having eternal hostility with Pakistan . Israels strategy is to try to get GCC countries to ally with them against Iran who both see as their biggest threat. For GCC on an ideological level and for Israel on a military level.

Yes that is their strategy but muslim countries will have to accept Israel's sovereignity which seems to be difficult currently.

 

[Swanny]

Also calling it now something happens to Iran during the Trump presidency. Either an invasion or another regime change maybe.

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=137488]Swanny[/MENTION] Israel want their neighbours to accept them and want peace they are willing to do business for peace. And having the only nuclear armed Muslim state like Pakistan agreeing to recognising Israel and making peace with them would be a major coup for them rather than having eternal hostility with Pakistan . Israels strategy is to try to get GCC countries to ally with them against Iran who both see as their biggest threat. For GCC on an ideological level and for Israel on a military level.

If you believe this then you're being taken for a ride by the Zionists.

Zionism is the threat to Muslims. Jewish and Christian Zionists are trying to speed up time, fulfil their (fasle) prophecies of end times. It's a simple as that.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] yeah the far right religious Zionist believe in all that apocalyptic stuff but most Zionists are secular and are non practising i mean the ideology was founded by an Atheist Jew and for them getting recognition of Israel by the Muslim World would be a dream for them because it would end the threat for them. They know all it takes is Israel for to be defeated once and the Zionist project is dead. So for them a peace with Pakistan would be a much more attractive option as it remove their biggest potential military threat. Thats why they apologised to Turkey for thr flotilla raid and were desperate to restore relations with them because Turkey is a strong military in the region. Israel is trying to establish formal relations with the GCC and use the threat of the Shiite cresecent to isolate Iran in the region.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=137488]Swanny[/MENTION] yes most Muslim states wont accept Israel as long as a Palestinian state hasnt been established and the displaced Palestinians who left or were removed from Palestine during the First Arab-Israeli conflict dont get to return to their homes or at least get compensation by the Israelis like U.N Resolution 194 states then there wont be a peace. The Arab Peace Initiative put forward in 2002 puts forward these demands to get a lasting peace for Israel. But Israel rejected it because they know a return of the displaced Palestinians would tip the demographic balance heavily in their favour and end the Jewish majority in Israel and the end of the Zionist project.

 

[Swanny]

Also it's wrong to presume Israel is concerned about Pak having nukes becoz both Israel & Pak are under US influence now. Also we don't know whether Israel itself has nukes. I think they do.

 

[LegCutter]

A common misconception is that Trump is going to be worse for Muslim countries; so far he has claimed that he will be opting for a non-interventionist foreign policy. Hilary was a war-monger and would have been much worse for foreign Muslim countries than Trump. Having said that, he is a loose cannon and his foreign policy may change by the minute.
The flip-side is Trump's populist rhetoric will fuel racists and white supremacists within the US who will bully local US Muslims. And on another flip-side, the liberal population has become increasingly sympathetic to the Muslim community as they feel that social minorities are going to be oppressed under the Trump administration. So Muslims may become more protected now than before as the liberals will try to latch on to any attempt at a local Muslim being oppressed as it will allow them to speak out against Trump. It's a complicated scenario.

India has a gripe with Pakistan and not with Muslims around the world. And the gripe is territorial more than anything else. Generally as Pakistanis are largely Muslims, India's vendetta may sometimes seem inclusionary to all Muslims, but the center core of the enmity/rivalry is for Pakistan the country. And on the same note, the enmity is political. When Pakistanis and Indians socialize in foreign countries, the relationship is almost brotherly with a touch of rivalry when it comes to sporting/national events.

Israel may be the one country that has a religious agenda. Under control of a far right government of Netanyahu and an increasingly right-wing nationalistic young population, we may have reason to worry. It's hard to judge though, because so far they have been making the excuse of self-preservation. The expansion into Palestinian territory may be for the purposes of territorial expansion; and their vendetta against Iran may be because Iran has openly said they wanted to destroy Israel. It's in Pakistan's best interest to try to make peace with Israel; if Israel feels threatened by Pakistani nukes then I can definitely foresee Israel trying to neuter Pakistan the same way they are neutering Iran.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

What is the historical reason for this hate. The states of Pakistan and India are in a state of war not because of religion but because of Kashmir. If it wasn't for Kashmir then our founding father himself said "India should be the country with which you have the best relations".

However, the hate existed long before partition and it is the reason why partition was demanded.

These same Hindus and Muslims from their respective countries when they meet in the western world become best buddies.

I disagree with that.. it was identified as a trick by the colonists to separate the people by any form to inject their policies and loot the wealth...

They identified few sects of right wing Hindus who can be their targets to act as catalysts for the divide and rule policy and they still exists..

They divided and ruled and were very successful, and the division still continues.. For any laymen to believe that India got freedom because of non-violence, doesn't sound logical at all.. Many famous names and incidents must be washed under the carpet to elevate the person Gandhi, INC and non-violence for some beneficial reasons...

The hate for India among Pakistanis is more to do with the political injustice incurred by Pak.. The hungry for power, wealth and resources made the INC to do the partition in land + money to separate them by religion after winning the freedom which is an act considered to be coming from the zionist clone.

 

[GreenKnightRises]

The zionist intention to rule the world would be fulfilled only when Muslims are taken out of power completely.

True..!!! Don't know why people are scared to accept this

 

[dauntless]

Actually, it is more of a Muslim thing to make friends or foes on religious grounds. There are many Muslim countries, but Indian hatred is reserved exclusively for Pakistan. Syed's post above explains why it is the case.

Not only Muslims thing to make freinds or foes on basis of religion .I m from Jammu I have experienced these these things Jammu is Muslim minority area even any small incident happens Hindus come like they are going to kill us.I can't wait to get out of this pathetic country

 

[Abdul]

These same Hindus and Muslims from their respective countries when they meet in the western world become best buddies.

Can't agree with that more. All of my friends here are Indians whereas I barely know any Pakistanis. I used to think quite negatively of same people (because of whatever I had seen in the media etc.) I hang out with now.

Not sure if that's true in your case however.

 

[yasir]

Our only enemies are India and Israel. The US and Russia look after their own interests. If we align with them then bhai-bhai otherwise app kaun mein kaun. China is are only true friend, however, there are no permanent friends or foes in world politics. Turkey and Pakistan are ideologically very similar and are natural allies. We should stay and arm's length away from all Arab countries.


The only two countries we have to be wary off are India and Israel. India for obvious reasons. Israel because Pakistan is the only Muslim nuclear country in the world and a constant threat to Israel if we chose to go down that path. In case people didn't know, at the time Pakistan was conducting nuclear tests Pakistani radars spotted F-16s within Indian airspace near the Pakistani border. India has ZERO F-16s however, Israel has plenty of them.


We also need to be wary of India's poodles like Afghanistan and Bangladesh.

India and China needs to grow up

Biggest problem in South Asian region is that India and China are not friends with each other. We are not living in world of 1000 years ago, nobody that big can swallow such a big country, they need to grow up and be good neighbors. Neighborhood is ruin by big guys, if they work well with each other, everybody will follow...Main reason Pakistan is friends with China, because India and China are hostile to each other, then everybody else also part of one of the group...

Its like in a house, if wife and husband keep fighting each other, kids will develop bad habits...Or Gangs kill neighborhoods, you dont have to focus on petty stuff...

I cannot imagine Pakistan and India will be as hostile to each other if India and China were friends like USA and Canada. Its going to be very hard to make a block against such a powerful neighbors. Plus China and India is half of worlds population. This can make this whole region very different. On the flip side no matter how nice small countries are they will not have bigger impact...No matter how nice Nepal or Tibet gets, its not going to change India or China

Tribalism is not the future

My race, my religion is not the future for a small world...World was a very big place 1000 years ago, and people were not so openminded, had more insecurities, tribalism was good means to survive... Now world is very small place, we live on a tiny planet, moving towards a society where whole planet as one tribe, means common value, common cultural norms, too much dependencies upon each other of both trade and env etc, why? - Well culture is by product of communication and commerce, its an after thought or works as a supporting cast not the main driver. If you have communication, you will have commerce and hence commonality in culture... Separating them artificially because of historically different cultures(well back in time, communication was far less, so were the cultural difference) is not natural and will not be possible in long run, its not path of least resistance and hence will never win...We can destroy the planet in next 100s of year with this mentality but can never sustain these artificial cultures.

Let me give you couple of examples, cultural impact of Hollywood has increase tremendously as communication has gone stronger and deeper. Same goes with Technology(cars, TVs, phones etc other devices and services), Internet, you just cannot compete with it, even if you win there will still be less ways of doing a particular thing...Similarly if religion cannot compete with Science in intellect, its not emotional debate but more of reason and logic base, you have to win that argument, both are not going to live forever. For example Web 1.0 applications slows down the development of web 3.0, only so much backward compatibility is possible, its also highly inefficient...Same argument can be made about education, commerce, life style or any other cultural aspect of community(which BTW more or less is one or going in that direction)

 

[SandyB]

India and China needs to grow up

Biggest problem in South Asian region is that India and China are not friends with each other. We are not living in world of 1000 years ago, nobody that big can swallow such a big country, they need to grow up and be good neighbors. Neighborhood is ruin by big guys, if they work well with each other, everybody will follow...Main reason Pakistan is friends with China, because India and China are hostile to each other, then everybody else also part of one of the group...

Its like in a house, if wife and husband keep fighting each other, kids will develop bad habits...Or Gangs kill neighborhoods, you dont have to focus on petty stuff...

I cannot imagine Pakistan and India will be as hostile to each other if India and China were friends like USA and Canada. Its going to be very hard to make a block against such a powerful neighbors. Plus China and India is half of worlds population. This can make this whole region very different. On the flip side no matter how nice small countries are they will not have bigger impact...No matter how nice Nepal or Tibet gets, its not going to change India or China

Tribalism is not the future

My race, my religion is not the future for a small world...World was a very big place 1000 years ago, and people were not so openminded, had more insecurities, tribalism was good means to survive... Now world is very small place, we live on a tiny planet, moving towards a society where whole planet as one tribe, means common value, common cultural norms, too much dependencies upon each other of both trade and env etc, why? - Well culture is by product of communication and commerce, its an after thought or works as a supporting cast not the main driver. If you have communication, you will have commerce and hence commonality in culture... Separating them artificially because of historically different cultures(well back in time, communication was far less, so were the cultural difference) is not natural and will not be possible in long run, its not path of least resistance and hence will never win...We can destroy the planet in next 100s of year with this mentality but can never sustain these artificial cultures.

Let me give you couple of examples, cultural impact of Hollywood has increase tremendously as communication has gone stronger and deeper. Same goes with Technology(cars, TVs, phones etc other devices and services), Internet, you just cannot compete with it, even if you win there will still be less ways of doing a particular thing...Similarly if religion cannot compete with Science in intellect, its not emotional debate but more of reason and logic base, you have to win that argument, both are not going to live forever. For example Web 1.0 applications slows down the development of web 3.0, only so much backward compatibility is possible, its also highly inefficient...Same argument can be made about education, commerce, life style or any other cultural aspect of community(which BTW more or less is one or going in that direction)

Great Post [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

 

[Swanny]

India and China needs to grow up

Biggest problem in South Asian region is that India and China are not friends with each other. We are not living in world of 1000 years ago, nobody that big can swallow such a big country, they need to grow up and be good neighbors. Neighborhood is ruin by big guys, if they work well with each other, everybody will follow...Main reason Pakistan is friends with China, because India and China are hostile to each other, then everybody else also part of one of the group...

Its like in a house, if wife and husband keep fighting each other, kids will develop bad habits...Or Gangs kill neighborhoods, you dont have to focus on petty stuff...

I cannot imagine Pakistan and India will be as hostile to each other if India and China were friends like USA and Canada. Its going to be very hard to make a block against such a powerful neighbors. Plus China and India is half of worlds population. This can make this whole region very different. On the flip side no matter how nice small countries are they will not have bigger impact...No matter how nice Nepal or Tibet gets, its not going to change India or China

Tribalism is not the future

My race, my religion is not the future for a small world...World was a very big place 1000 years ago, and people were not so openminded, had more insecurities, tribalism was good means to survive... Now world is very small place, we live on a tiny planet, moving towards a society where whole planet as one tribe, means common value, common cultural norms, too much dependencies upon each other of both trade and env etc, why? - Well culture is by product of communication and commerce, its an after thought or works as a supporting cast not the main driver. If you have communication, you will have commerce and hence commonality in culture... Separating them artificially because of historically different cultures(well back in time, communication was far less, so were the cultural difference) is not natural and will not be possible in long run, its not path of least resistance and hence will never win...We can destroy the planet in next 100s of year with this mentality but can never sustain these artificial cultures.

Let me give you couple of examples, cultural impact of Hollywood has increase tremendously as communication has gone stronger and deeper. Same goes with Technology(cars, TVs, phones etc other devices and services), Internet, you just cannot compete with it, even if you win there will still be less ways of doing a particular thing...Similarly if religion cannot compete with Science in intellect, its not emotional debate but more of reason and logic base, you have to win that argument, both are not going to live forever. For example Web 1.0 applications slows down the development of web 3.0, only so much backward compatibility is possible, its also highly inefficient...Same argument can be made about education, commerce, life style or any other cultural aspect of community(which BTW more or less is one or going in that direction)

But the US & Canada share similar values of freedom & democracy. So they are natural allies. China doesn't share similar values of democracy with India. It would be like comparing US & Russia in terms of ideological differencies. That's why the EU works out well becoz the individual countries share similar values.

Not saying it's impossible just that there's a lots of obstacles which have to be worked out for a lasting friendship.