Do you blame people for hiding mental and physical ailments in arranged marriages?

[Savak]

I am not trolling here but this is kind of a hard one for me to wrap my head around where i have a black and white approach where i say yes they should but then realist in me also tells me that things are not always that simple on this planet. I will give a couple of very different examples to prove my case

1) My mamu has always suffered from clinical depression his entire life. I do know for a fact that this was not disclosed to his wife and her family before and it was after the night of the valima where my khala told his wife that she had to make sure that my mamu took Xanax, Prozac daily because he suffers from clinical depression.

Now on the other hand, his wife did not disclose to my nana's family about her being psychotic, szhiprohenic where she hallucinates, sees, imagines things in her mind. While my mamu was a professional failure and did not really have much ambition in life, she used to beat him with a shoe and insult humiliate him everyday. But yes her main gripe was that her entire life was ruined because of being married to a loser like him and the fact that his clinical depression was not disclosed to her

2) My Chacha was a diabetic, but this was not disclosed to his wife and her family before the marriage and the truth came to light afterwards. Now this Chacha of mine is very successful and is a millionare and lives in a really huge mansion and has 2 wonderful kids and a really wonderful, loving caring wife who even though is not out of the world good looking but is such a dream role model spouse in the sense that she really looks after her husband, everyone in the family keeps saying he really won the lottery.

Unfortunately his inlaws still to this day hold a really powerful grudge against our side of the family and they still have not forgiven my daadi and the rest of the family for keeping his diabetes a secret

3) My sister was today telling me about one of her closest friends from University who was a really bright student and cleared all medical exams in one go and had a really easy time academically in comparison to others and is now a practicing doctor doing a house job in one of the most prestigious hospitals in Pakistan. However unfortunately this girl suffers from severe clinical depression, she fell in love with a guy in her batch and she did not hide this information from him and he had no problems with this and readily accepted her

They both got married. My sister was telling me that the girl was not getting along with her in laws due to which the guy moved out of his home with his wife and they both moved into an apartment instead. However her clinical depression has really now gotten worse and now it appears that the guy himself is extremely worn down dealing with her low mood swings and it now appears their marriage is on the rocks.

4) A friend of mine in Canada got married to a Pakistani girl in Canada via arranged marriage, it turned out later on that the girl had a severe kidney problem for which she required frequent treatment and this was not disclosed to the guy and his family by the parents. While the guy was supportive and okay with it, his parents were extremely infuriated by this act by the girl and her parents and literally kicked the girl out of the house and the couple ended up getting divorced.

5) I myself have Aspergers Syndrome and have very poor social skills and am deeply introverted. Lol my elders just right now couldn't stop raving about my sisters fiance who came to meet us for dinner today about how they were breath taken by the guys amazing social skills where he could act like a kid in front of kids, like a teenager with teenagers and as an adult with adults and how he had the ability to keep conversations going.

When i compare myself to that guy, i obviously do not feel good because i tend to go into a silent shell when there are microscopic lenses on me and i know deep down a guy with amazing confidence will sell much more easily in comparison to someone who is shy, introverted and that most parents will not like a guy with zero confidence.

Anyways, ethically speaking i know i have to disclose my Aspergers Syndrome problem to a potential future partner and that i cannot in good conscious bury it under the carpet

The purpose of this thread is to ask the following

- Are couples justified in keeping their mental problems a secret before marriage?

- Does suffering from problems like Clinical Depression mean that the person should not get married at all?

I am interested in hearing a consensus on this one

 

[world cup captain]

This is a tough one as I can see the desire to keep such things a secret. I'm myself am in a some sort of a similar position as I am a closet ex-muslim so I have to let my future partner know before marriage whether it is arranged or loved marriage. This however does not mean that the whole family must know. If it's something which you think could potentially break the marriage before it happens, just talk to the guy/girl on the side. Somethings like these I think must be revealed as relationships take a lot of trust and if a relationship begins on a lie, there won't be much left when the lie comes out.

 

[humzy]

I am not trolling here but this is kind of a hard one for me to wrap my head around where i have a black and white approach where i say yes they should but then realist in me also tells me that things are not always that simple on this planet. I will give a couple of very different examples to prove my case

1) My mamu has always suffered from clinical depression his entire life. I do know for a fact that this was not disclosed to his wife and her family before and it was after the night of the valima where my khala told his wife that she had to make sure that my mamu took Xanax, Prozac daily because he suffers from clinical depression.

Now on the other hand, his wife did not disclose to my nana's family about her being psychotic, szhiprohenic where she hallucinates, sees, imagines things in her mind. While my mamu was a professional failure and did not really have much ambition in life, she used to beat him with a shoe and insult humiliate him everyday. But yes her main gripe was that her entire life was ruined because of being married to a loser like him and the fact that his clinical depression was not disclosed to her

2) My Chacha was a diabetic, but this was not disclosed to his wife and her family before the marriage and the truth came to light afterwards. Now this Chacha of mine is very successful and is a millionare and lives in a really huge mansion and has 2 wonderful kids and a really wonderful, loving caring wife who even though is not out of the world good looking but is such a dream role model spouse in the sense that she really looks after her husband, everyone in the family keeps saying he really won the lottery.

Unfortunately his inlaws still to this day hold a really powerful grudge against our side of the family and they still have not forgiven my daadi and the rest of the family for keeping his diabetes a secret

3) My sister was today telling me about one of her closest friends from University who was a really bright student and cleared all medical exams in one go and had a really easy time academically in comparison to others and is now a practicing doctor doing a house job in one of the most prestigious hospitals in Pakistan. However unfortunately this girl suffers from severe clinical depression, she fell in love with a guy in her batch and she did not hide this information from him and he had no problems with this and readily accepted her

They both got married. My sister was telling me that the girl was not getting along with her in laws due to which the guy moved out of his home with his wife and they both moved into an apartment instead. However her clinical depression has really now gotten worse and now it appears that the guy himself is extremely worn down dealing with her low mood swings and it now appears their marriage is on the rocks.

4) A friend of mine in Canada got married to a Pakistani girl in Canada via arranged marriage, it turned out later on that the girl had a severe kidney problem for which she required frequent treatment and this was not disclosed to the guy and his family by the parents. While the guy was supportive and okay with it, his parents were extremely infuriated by this act by the girl and her parents and literally kicked the girl out of the house and the couple ended up getting divorced.

5) I myself have Aspergers Syndrome and have very poor social skills and am deeply introverted. Lol my elders just right now couldn't stop raving about my sisters fiance who came to meet us for dinner today about how they were breath taken by the guys amazing social skills where he could act like a kid in front of kids, like a teenager with teenagers and as an adult with adults and how he had the ability to keep conversations going.

When i compare myself to that guy, i obviously do not feel good because i tend to go into a silent shell when there are microscopic lenses on me and i know deep down a guy with amazing confidence will sell much more easily in comparison to someone who is shy, introverted and that most parents will not like a guy with zero confidence.

Anyways, ethically speaking i know i have to disclose my Aspergers Syndrome problem to a potential future partner and that i cannot in good conscious bury it under the carpet

The purpose of this thread is to ask the following

- Are couples justified in keeping their mental problems a secret before marriage?

- Does suffering from problems like Clinical Depression mean that the person should not get married at all?

I am interested in hearing a consensus on this one

Firstly I would ask myself, would I be with a girl if she had a mental illness?

If I answered yes, then I should have the same expectations of my future wife.
If she says no to the same question, then she isn’t the type of person I would want to be with because I don’t share the same morals on the issue right?

Secondly, hiding things will always bite you down the track. Why would I deceive a person I am planning to spend the rest of my life with when it will eventually come out and make me look deceptive and dishonest anyway ?

 

[TQ89]

Bro in our society people hide all type of diseases when marriage is concerned. It shouldn't be that way but that is how the real world operates. I personally know one instance where the boy after engagement had epileptic fits for the first time in his life and the girls family broke the engagement one week prior to the wedding.

It is a lose-lose situation (unless your respective partner & her family is understanding) . If you tell them the truth beforehand then you are finished & if you hide & get exposed later on, you will get screwed anyway. I wouldn't want to be in this type of position in life ever.

 

[jaspa888]

I can understand the urge to hide certain details of personal ailments because gossiping is rife in our culture; the person being honest about his/her ailment will soon be considered unmarriageable by the wider community.

The best approach is to meet the other person on a 1-2-1 basis and tell them in confidence. The two most important people in the rishta can then have a grown-up discussion, and make a mutual decision.

 

[Pakistanian]

Don't lie or how hide anything, that's deception and fraud.


Be open about what you have, you would want somebody that accepts you for what you are.

 

[UP]

A very close friend of mine got married to a girl in Pak who has severe autism. As expected - it was hidden from him that the girl is not well. As being traditional villager desi - he never met or had prior contact with her. I constantly told him to at least talk to her on the phone but it wasn’t allowed in his family. After a week of marriage, he let his parents know that this woman is not the right fit for him. And also as expected - elder desis who are mostly poorly educated advised him to have kids and she will settle down once responsibilites will grip her.

He got married in May 2011 and after 7 years of torture - he calls me and lets his frustration out but because his two daughters are in the picture he can’t divorce his wife either. Our system is really messed up.

What I have learnt in this debacle is not to have a kid at least for a year. Live with that person and see if you both get along nicely.

And I also strongly recommend singles to meet/chat with the potential spouse for six months minimum before getting married.

 

[Pakistanian]

A very close friend of mine got married to a girl in Pak who has severe autism. As expected - it was hidden from him that the girl is not well. As being traditional villager desi - he never met or had prior contact with her. I constantly told him to at least talk to her on the phone but it wasn’t allowed in his family. After a week of marriage, he let his parents know that this woman is not the right fit for him. And also as expected - elder desis who are mostly poorly educated advised him to have kids and she will settle down once responsibilites will grip her.

He got married in May 2011 and after 7 years of torture - he calls me and lets his frustration out but because his two daughters are in the picture he can’t divorce his wife either. Our system is really messed up.

What I have learnt in this debacle is not to have a kid at least for a year. Live with that person and see if you both get along nicely.

And I also strongly recommend singles to meet/chat with the potential spouse for six months minimum before getting married.

How does somebody not notice someone has severe autism? I mean you can EASILY tell from the persons mannerisms and even appearance. Also his parents gave him terrible advice, most neurological ailments are GENETIC so having children with such a person only makes it worse for his kids.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

One should always reveal any issues that could cause further problems down the road.

 

[UP]

How does somebody not notice someone has severe autism? I mean you can EASILY tell from the persons mannerisms and even appearance. Also his parents gave him terrible advice, most neurological ailments are GENETIC so having children with such a person only makes it worse for his kids.

When his parents went for the rishta - they never met the girl/or saw her whilst they were in her home. They dealt with her father and came back. However, after few days of marriage he did let his parents know that you have made a terrible decision.

One extended family member did warn his father that the girl’s first engagement was called off for some reason (family member wasn’t sure why). The guy’s father brushed it off thinking people are bieng jealous since the girl’s dad has a lot of izzat and money and went ahead anyway.

I have also advised him that this environment is not fit for kids but says his hands are tied.

 

[Yossarian]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] I would suggest keep it quiet initially. Get to know the girl and her parents well. Once you've got to know them well, but before wedding halls are booked and other serious expenses start occurring, tell the girl the truth. By that stage she should already have decided that she wants you as her life partner. If after telling her the truth she changes her mind, then she really didn't want you in the first place. At the slightest marital discord, the marriage would have fallen apart.

 

[imrankhannsu]

Health issues should be disclosed for a relationship IMO.

 

[ManFan]

What’s up with all the marriage threads?

 

[orthodox_spin]

In this situation it is best to be honest and make it clear that you want honesty in return. Truth is, everyone has some sort of condition - no one is born free of it.

When explaining it to your potential spouse, I would make sure you tell her at a point when you both have established that you can move forward. Make sure you explain your condition and that you're fully aware of it, as it seems that you do. Being self aware is first part of a relationship and any decent person would respect that more. It may bring you closer.

Hiding isnt ideal.

 

[Kroll]

What’s up with all the marriage threads?

Wedding season perhaps?

 

[Savak]

I wonder if anyone has any other real life anecdotes of how things like this have resulted in problems after marriage?

Any anecdotes where families have called off proceedings once a admission was made by one party to another?

 

[Savak]

The worst and most unbelievable, criminal episode i heard was where a girl from Pakistan married a Pak American guy from the US, she had migrated from Pakistan to the US and later on discovered that her husband was HIV +.

I couldn't believe how unbelievably evil some people and families can be and the lack of guilt they feel in destroying someone's life. Naturally the wife snuck out behind her in laws back, secretly booked a flight back home to Pakistan and she and her family have filed a criminal case against the guy and his family, i don't know the rest of the details.

 

[orthodox_spin]

Why look at it from a negative angle and possibilities? Nothing is certain other than you doing the right thing. Only so much you can look in to and control a situation.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] I would suggest keep it quiet initially. Get to know the girl and her parents well. Once you've got to know them well, but before wedding halls are booked and other serious expenses start occurring, tell the girl the truth. By that stage she should already have decided that she wants you as her life partner. If after telling her the truth she changes her mind, then she really didn't want you in the first place. At the slightest marital discord, the marriage would have fallen apart.

With all due respect, this is the worst post in this thread by far. Your post screams exploitation and playing with emotions. You have to put EVERYTHING on the table as soon as possible, and keeping it quiet until the girl has already decided that she wants to marry you and has developed a liking for you is a very terrible idea.

Just because you have a mental/physical problem does not mean that you have the right to test if the girl loves you unconditionally and if she will accept you for who you truly are. She has the right to know everything about you that could have an impact on your marital life, and a physical/mental ailment is not something that should be hidden from her or her family until they have grown fond of you.

My advice to the OP is that it is imperative to be transparent about these issues. I understand that it is not an easy thing to do, and if you cannot communicate directly, let your parents or any other family member handle it. However, the girl and her family should be made aware of your problem(s) and they should be allowed to make an impartial decision instead of getting coerced into it because of your cleverness.

 

[zeusathon]

Serious illnesses are hard to hide these days as parents meet and roll potential partners alot before the actual marriage.

 

[Usman]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION], I would never in a million years guessed that you had aspergers. I don't get to post here much these days, but you are one of the old timers who has always writen quality, thoughtful posts. Knowing people with similar conditions myself, people like you are an inspiration. So don't feel bad comparing yourself to others like your sisters fiance - clearly you have other strengths which are just as good.

As to whether you should be upfront or not, then of course the answer is yes. I get the fact that you don't want to frighten someone off before they get to know you, so if you have the chance to speak to them, maybe bring it up in a second or third conversation. I don't think it's a good idea to get married without telling the other person to be honest bro. You need someone understanding and if they can't take it when you tell them of an illness, well they were never the right fit for you anyway.

 

[JaDed]

Didn't know you had Asperger's, shocking to know,do you think that's the reason your parents didn't want to take rishta to that particular girl you liked?

 

[Savak]

Didn't know you had Asperger's, shocking to know,do you think that's the reason your parents didn't want to take rishta to that particular girl you liked?

Not really, they just don't like the family and without having the girl on my side my case was weak.

It is infuriating after a life time of being told that your parents are responsible for approaching the girls family to ask for the girls hand, after a life time to being asked just let us know if you like someone and we will take it from there, that when the time came i now ended up being told that you actually need to have the girl on your side before you involve us.

 

[giri26]

Hiding complex issues prior to marriage is not a good beginning to a life together. The only thing it can cause is life full of unhappiness and a failed marriage. I would rather not get married than struggle throughout the life for hiding something when both parties are unhappy. Marriage is not only a life together, it is also a life time of trust, it should not start with a lie.

 

[Yossarian]

With all due respect, this is the worst post in this thread by far. Your post screams exploitation and playing with emotions. You have to put EVERYTHING on the table as soon as possible, and keeping it quiet until the girl has already decided that she wants to marry you and has developed a liking for you is a very terrible idea.

Just because you have a mental/physical problem does not mean that you have the right to test if the girl loves you unconditionally and if she will accept you for who you truly are. She has the right to know everything about you that could have an impact on your marital life, and a physical/mental ailment is not something that should be hidden from her or her family until they have grown fond of you.

My advice to the OP is that it is imperative to be transparent about these issues. I understand that it is not an easy thing to do, and if you cannot communicate directly, let your parents or any other family member handle it. However, the girl and her family should be made aware of your problem(s) and they should be allowed to make an impartial decision instead of getting coerced into it because of your cleverness.

You're so full of yourself that you don't even digest the gist of the post without immediately ranting against it.

Going by your logic, one should have their illness tattooed on their forehead so that the girl/boy and their parents are able to make an immediate judgement without getting to know you or understand the extent of your illness/disability. In fact it's extremely unlikely you will even be given the chance to explain the extent of the problem, whereas the illness might be something that doesn't have a great deal of impact on your daily life, such as a mild case of asthma or similar.

Had you bothered trying to understand the post, you'd have noticed that it said to give the girl/boy and their parents a chance to get to know you, and not simply see you as a disease/disability carrier that must be rejected immediately. However, the truth and full extent of the disability then needs to be explained before any serious commitments, such as commencing organising the wedding, start taking place. That way they will have seen how you've been coping with the illness/disability despite them not knowing about it, and thus the boy/girl and their parents will be in a better position to judge how the girl's/boy's life is likely to be affected, and therefore they are in a better place to make a judgement about you and whether you're still suitable as a life partner.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

You're so full of yourself that you don't even digest the gist of the post without immediately ranting against it.

Going by your logic, one should have their illness tattooed on their forehead so that the girl/boy and their parents are able to make an immediate judgement without getting to know you or understand the extent of your illness/disability. In fact it's extremely unlikely you will even be given the chance to explain the extent of the problem, whereas the illness might be something that doesn't have a great deal of impact on your daily life, such as a mild case of asthma or similar.

Had you bothered trying to understand the post, you'd have noticed that it said to give the girl/boy and their parents a chance to get to know you, and not simply see you as a disease/disability carrier that must be rejected immediately. However, the truth and full extent of the disability then needs to be explained before any serious commitments, such as commencing organising the wedding, start taking place. That way they will have seen how you've been coping with the illness/disability despite them not knowing about it, and thus the boy/girl and their parents will be in a better position to judge how the girl's/boy's life is likely to be affected, and therefore they are in a better place to make a judgement about you and whether you're still suitable as a life partner.

Basically tag them along and introduce bit of emotional blackmail just before the serious talks begin.. by then you have wasted someone's time if they say no, and would have said no at the outset, had it been declared. During this period, which could last months, somebody else could have come into the picture for the other person, which they would have had to turn down. But you out of your own selfish need, denied that opportunity to someone else.

Declare everything upfront, those are willing to give you a chance will proceed further. Infact it's good way of weeding out the right candidates with the declaration, and most importantly your concious is clear.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Basically tag them along and introduce bit of emotional blackmail just before the serious talks begin.. by then you have wasted someone's time if they say no, and would have said no at the outset, had it been declared. During this period, which could last months, somebody else could have come into the picture for the other person, which they would have had to turn down. But you out of your own selfish need, denied that opportunity to someone else.

Declare everything upfront, those are willing to give you a chance will proceed further. Infact it's good way of weeding out the right candidates with the declaration, and most importantly your concious is clear.

I have such secrets which if revealed even now will lead to my marriage falling apart. one has to be practical instead of foolish. try to be the best person you can be with all your limitations. no need to tell everything to your partner.

 

[Mamoon]

You're so full of yourself that you don't even digest the gist of the post without immediately ranting against it.

Going by your logic, one should have their illness tattooed on their forehead so that the girl/boy and their parents are able to make an immediate judgement without getting to know you or understand the extent of your illness/disability. In fact it's extremely unlikely you will even be given the chance to explain the extent of the problem, whereas the illness might be something that doesn't have a great deal of impact on your daily life, such as a mild case of asthma or similar.

Had you bothered trying to understand the post, you'd have noticed that it said to give the girl/boy and their parents a chance to get to know you, and not simply see you as a disease/disability carrier that must be rejected immediately. However, the truth and full extent of the disability then needs to be explained before any serious commitments, such as commencing organising the wedding, start taking place. That way they will have seen how you've been coping with the illness/disability despite them not knowing about it, and thus the boy/girl and their parents will be in a better position to judge how the girl's/boy's life is likely to be affected, and therefore they are in a better place to make a judgement about you and whether you're still suitable as a life partner.

Another deranged post.

No, you do not have to tattoo your illness or your problem on your forehead, but you cannot keep the girl and her family in the dark until the 'time is right'.

That is a very selfish and deplorable thing to do. How do you not see the problem with this approach? Apart from emotional blackmail, What is the point in misleading a girl and her family for months, pretending that everything is fine, and as soon as they think about your proposal seriously and think it is time to make some practical arrangements, you reveal your illness/problem etc. in breaking news style?

What if they are not ready to accept you with your problem? Why would you want to waste their time instead of being open upfront, and consequently denying them the opportunity to go for a better match? This will save not only their time but also yours. If they are unwilling to put with your problem, you will not have to waste your time with them.

That is why it is imperative to be transparent and clear about any potential problems that could hamper the marriage, and if they are not okay with it, both parties can move on.

No matter how you spin your post, the 'gist' of your post is nothing but a guide on how to emotionally blackmail a girl and her family and making it hard for them to reject you in spite of your mental or physical ailment.

 

[troodon]

Not just physical ailments, they hide the educational qualifications, Job details and many more.

Most of the times, people only meet once or twice before the marriage gets finalized. I know cases like this personally.

 

[Yossarian]

Another deranged post.

No, you do not have to tattoo your illness or your problem on your forehead, but you cannot keep the girl and her family in the dark until the 'time is right'.

That is a very selfish and deplorable thing to do. How do you not see the problem with this approach? Apart from emotional blackmail, What is the point in misleading a girl and her family for months, pretending that everything is fine, and as soon as they think about your proposal seriously and think it is time to make some practical arrangements, you reveal your illness/problem etc. in breaking news style?

What if they are not ready to accept you with your problem? Why would you want to waste their time instead of being open upfront, and consequently denying them the opportunity to go for a better match? This will save not only their time but also yours. If they are unwilling to put with your problem, you will not have to waste your time with them.

That is why it is imperative to be transparent and clear about any potential problems that could hamper the marriage, and if they are not okay with it, both parties can move on.

No matter how you spin your post, the 'gist' of your post is nothing but a guide on how to emotionally blackmail a girl and her family and making it hard for them to reject you in spite of your mental or physical ailment.

In your world everyone has to be the saint unless it affects you directly. In which case anything goes. Here is one such example from another topic that was being discussed where your double standards are quite clear. And a reply is still awaited.

I am only abroad for further education, and I am living on the money that I and my family have earned in Pakistan.

So presumable you are using up a large chunk of Pakistan's foreign currency reserves (when converting your Pakistan rupees to the currency of wherever you are currently) that Pakistan is short of and that is needed to import essential goods, such as fuel and machinery, in order to run the Pakistani economy?

So all the Pakistani expats are trying to pump foreign exchange into Pakistan, whilst a well off few, like yourself, are busy pumping it back out again. And yet you complain about Pakistan's economy and Pakistan running off to the IMF and others for loans.

The fact of the matter is, as they say (whether discussing marriage or anything else), don't judge the book by the cover. If all they hear about first is you disease/illness, without getting to first know about the context (ie who you are as a person), then on virtually every occasion their immediate reaction will be to reject you out-of-hand and walk away, and everything else you might say or try to explain will be blanked out. So it's not emotional blackmail as you claim, but simply ensuring that they have as much of the full picture as possible about you as a person (other than the disability itself) so that when you do inform them about the disability, it's within the context of you as a person that they make the decision of whether to continue or reject. You're making it out as if I'm suggesting that they should be informed just as the maulvi is about to start on the marriage vows.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Your thoughts are noble but life is complicated, Mamoon.

Yossarian has a point.

Maybe if he had said spend 2-3 months talking to the girl and then tell her the full details instead of saying tell her just before her family makes any serious committment, you might have viewed it differently.

 

[Mamoon]

In your world everyone has to be the saint unless it affects you directly. In which case anything goes. Here is one such example from another topic that was being discussed where your double standards are quite clear. And a reply is still awaited.
The fact of the matter is, as they say (whether discussing marriage or anything else), don't judge the book by the cover. If all they hear about first is you disease/illness, without getting to first know about the context (ie who you are as a person), then on virtually every occasion their immediate reaction will be to reject you out-of-hand and walk away, and everything else you might say or try to explain will be blanked out. So it's not emotional blackmail as you claim, but simply ensuring that they have as much of the full picture as possible about you as a person (other than the disability itself) so that when you do inform them about the disability, it's within the context of you as a person that they make the decision of whether to continue or reject. You're making it out as if I'm suggesting that they should be informed just as the maulvi is about to start on the marriage vows.

So your defense is to deflect your argument by referring to a topic that has nothing to do with this discussion. Okay.

Instead of coming up with a word salad and attempting mental gymnastics to prove your point, let me make it easy for you by summarizing your advice:

- don't put everything on the table initially because the girl and her family might reject you right away.

- be selfish and hide your physical/mental ailment so that you can win them over initially and make it difficult for them to reject you because they already like you.

- deny them an opportunity to go for a better option because you cannot be honest with them right away.

I don't see how your post can be interpreted in any other way.

 

[Mamoon]

Your thoughts are noble but life is complicated, Mamoon.

Yossarian has a point.

Maybe if he had said spend 2-3 months talking to the girl and then tell her the full details instead of saying tell her just before her family makes any serious committment, you might have viewed it differently.

I don't see how this has anything to do with nobility or morality. If you have a serious enough problem (mental or physical) that can have a negative impact on your married life, why would you hide it?

No one would want to be on the receiving end in this situation. Imagine dating a girl and telling your parents about her who like her as well, and when you and your parents start thinking about making arrangements, the girl reveals that she has XYZ problem. Would you not ask her why she was hiding her problem from you for so long?

Imagine if she justifies her decision by giving the explanation that Yossarian provided.

 

[Savak]

Everyone has skeletons in their closet. Lol it doesn't have to be physical or mental ailment alone, it can also involve being in bf-gf relationships before marriage or physical relationships in the past. Even girls have skeletons in the closet and even when they reveal things, it take time to reveal them after developing some comfort level and trust.

 

[Savak]

Another deranged post.

No, you do not have to tattoo your illness or your problem on your forehead, but you cannot keep the girl and her family in the dark until the 'time is right'.

That is a very selfish and deplorable thing to do. How do you not see the problem with this approach? Apart from emotional blackmail, What is the point in misleading a girl and her family for months, pretending that everything is fine, and as soon as they think about your proposal seriously and think it is time to make some practical arrangements, you reveal your illness/problem etc. in breaking news style?

What if they are not ready to accept you with your problem? Why would you want to waste their time instead of being open upfront, and consequently denying them the opportunity to go for a better match? This will save not only their time but also yours. If they are unwilling to put with your problem, you will not have to waste your time with them.

That is why it is imperative to be transparent and clear about any potential problems that could hamper the marriage, and if they are not okay with it, both parties can move on.

No matter how you spin your post, the 'gist' of your post is nothing but a guide on how to emotionally blackmail a girl and her family and making it hard for them to reject you in spite of your mental or physical ailment.

I think what he is trying to say is that it is natural and impractical for people to be very transparent about their issues, skeletons in the closet in the first few meetings but as time goes on when trust develops and where both parties see things moving forward, then you can discuss the issues involved at the right time.

 

[Savak]

Lol I remember a guy my sister was involved with in uni for a few years, she threw a very nasty fit when after 2 and a half years she asked him about his families religious beliefs i.e. are they Agha Khani's or not and he kept deflecting the topic for 3-4 months until he finally relented and admitted the truth that they are.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I don't see how this has anything to do with nobility or morality. If you have a serious enough problem (mental or physical) that can have a negative impact on your married life, why would you hide it?

No one would want to be on the receiving end in this situation. Imagine dating a girl and telling your parents about her who like her as well, and when you and your parents start thinking about making arrangements, the girl reveals that she has XYZ problem. Would you not ask her why she was hiding her problem from you for so long?

Imagine if she justifies her decision by giving the explanation that Yossarian provided.

Yossarian made an important point in this reg:

When you talk to someone for a while, you give them an opportunity to see how you are coping with your issues which might give them a better perspective.

You don't hav to drag it too long but just making sure that person gets a full idea about who you are before you reveal it and give them full support take any call they wish.

Also extent of problem matters.

Hiding hiv positive, extreme depression, etc is obviously messed up.

 

[Yossarian]

Your thoughts are noble but life is complicated, Mamoon.

Yossarian has a point.

Maybe if he had said spend 2-3 months talking to the girl and then tell her the full details instead of saying tell her just before her family makes any serious committment, you might have viewed it differently.

Everyone has skeletons in their closet. Lol it doesn't have to be physical or mental ailment alone, it can also involve being in bf-gf relationships before marriage or physical relationships in the past. Even girls have skeletons in the closet and even when they reveal things, it take time to reveal them after developing some comfort level and trust.

I think what he is trying to say is that it is natural and impractical for people to be very transparent about their issues, skeletons in the closet in the first few meetings but as time goes on when trust develops and where both parties see things moving forward, then you can discuss the issues involved at the right time.

Yossarian made an important point in this reg:

When you talk to someone for a while, you give them an opportunity to see how you are coping with your issues which might give them a better perspective.

You don't hav to drag it too long but just making sure that person gets a full idea about who you are before you reveal it and give them full support take any call they wish.

Also extent of problem matters.

Hiding hiv positive, extreme depression, etc is obviously messed up.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
I suggest you read, and most importantly, digest the above posts. Perhaps it might be easier for you to do so as [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] and [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] are posters that you perhaps are more likely, compared with myself, to have a rapport with.

 

[PakLFC]

Yes I do really blame them. Honestly is always the best policy. Although in certain cases it may not cause harm overall the risk factor of hiding some health issue is always there. My conscience has to be clear before deciding to marry someone. Would rather be rejected then go in to such a relationship with a heavy heart and my mind eating away at me. If the sufferer can live with any illness then should make it clear to any perspective partner before nikaah. By doing so he will earn the other families respect even if the marriage proposal is withdrawn. People need to understand that conditions like diabetes are reversible with a good diet and healthy living.