Dock money if players put IPL over England, Geoffrey Boycott tells ECB

[hoshiarpurexpress]

A retirement fund that CSA pay into for all their players, there's effectively no difference.

Provident fund is part salary contribution from both employer and employees... It is like forced saving from governments.. it is 9.5% in India.
In Australia it is called Superannuation, in USA it is 401-K.. It is part of your salary packaging.
BCCI pension is something which they pay on top of that to the retired cricketers.. Who have played domestics and ranji.. So that they don't have to drive Taxis in UK and live hand to mouth.
Please read up a little before making such fictitious claims.
Pension is a completely different from a retirement fund/provident fund....



Like I've said, enrolling employees in and contributing to a pension scheme is a legal requirement for UK employers, hence you won't find anyone making a big deal over the fact the ECB are actually complying with the law. If you're that desperate to verify they are you'll find a reference to pension scheme contributions in their annual financial statements.

It is a legal requirement in India as well. It is 9.5% of your total salary package called CTC(Cost to Company). BCCI does that already like any organisation has to do under Indian Contract Law. Pension is on top which BCCI started after it started making money post 2000's.

Being under contract to a state cricket board is not the same as being under contract to the BCCI. State players are not employees of the BCCI.

Who told you that ? Where are you getting this information from.
State Boards and officials are elected and run by BCCI, so they come under BCCI and they get their funding and all SOP's/Legal framework from BCCI.
So a Ranji Player, an U-19 player, U-23 etc all are employees of BCCI at the end. Completely false statement and again, Please read up a little you have no idea what your talking about.

And specifically forbids any agreement which puts restraints on someone's trade.

See it is is simple, If I work for Microsoft in India at the same time I cannot work for Google. Indian contract law does not allow you to have multiple jobs at conflicting institutions. So it is law of the land that BCCI is following.

 

[HitWicket]

1. A provident fund is not a pension.

You're splitting hairs, CSA put money aside that goes to their players upon retirement. If you want to get picky the BCCI don't provide their players with a pension either, otherwise they'd have to provide them in a fair and accountable manner and couldn't use them as a form of leverage. That's why their official records don't refer to it as a pension but as 'gratis payments'.

2. There are no sources confirming that ECB pays a monthly life long pension to the test and FC players.

I'd try to act surprised that you've suddenly shifted the goal posts but I can't say that I truly am.

3. Yes its the same. All state associations are under Bcci and get funds from Bcci. The players are directly bpaid by the Bcci on per match basis.On top of that 10.6 Percent of Bcci's revenue is distributed to the domestic players.

And that still doesn't make them employees of the BCCI. Yes, money from the BCCI eventually ends up with the players, they're still employees of their state association and not the BCCI.

4. That's upto the individual to decide if he agrees to the contract or not.

A player signing a contract that contains illegal restrictions for after they exit the contract doesn't suddenly make it any less illegal or any more enforceable.

 

[cricket4all]

Geoffrey Boycott is a legend, love him or hate him, agree or disagree but he speaks his mind, doesn't care who it is and just says it how he sees it.

Regarding the IPL, fair do to the IPL and all other t20 leagues but national duty and pride should always be number 1. However, if players chose anything other it is their right and choice but they should rightfully be docked money from their central contracts etc by their cricket board. The IPL money should compensate that anyway, but then for the national side other players should get long term oppurtunity and more priority for the future to those choosing T20 leagues.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] Where do you get your info from , everyone in England gets a bloody pension!

 

[HitWicket]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] Where do you get your info from , everyone in England gets a bloody pension!

Notice how the goalposts suddenly changed from "Where's the proof that the ECB give their players a pension" to "Where's the proof that the ECB give their players a defined benefit pension" when this was pointed out.

 

[shaz619]

Am sure the ECB contribute 8% towards a pension plan without it being mandated that employees have to contribute to [MENTION=139981]HitWicket[/MENTION]

 

[shaz619]

Notice how the goalposts suddenly changed from "Where's the proof that the ECB give their players a pension" to "Where's the proof that the ECB give their players a defined benefit pension".

Exactly, clearly that fella is off his .... spewing nonsense as usual without anything to back him up. Telling folk what the laws are in their country, majority of decent companies at the very least will have some sort of pension scheme here

 

[ChTab]

LONDON: The English cricket board must stop treating its players in a "namby-pamby way" and dock money if they put the lucrative Indian Premier League (IPL) above national duty, former Test batsman Geoffrey Boycott said.

Head coach Chris Silverwood has said England players would be allowed to miss the start of the Test series against New Zealand in June if their IPL teams make the final of the Twenty20 competition.

England will also stick to their rotation policy aimed at helping their multi-format players cope better with life in bio-secure bubbles, Silverwood said after the team's 1-3 Test series loss in India.

"England messed up with a rotation policy in India and must stop treating players in a namby-pamby way," Boycott wrote in the Daily Telegraph.

"Players seem to forget the IPL would not come calling for them if they had not performed for England first. So they owe a debt of gratitude and loyalty to put England first."

"I would never stop them from earning that but not by missing games for England to do it."

The former opener said nobody should begrudge a player leaving England's bio-secure bubble over mental health issues.

"But I bet you will not see any of our players leaving the IPL because they miss their wife, girlfriend or kids."

The 80-year-old said the England and Wales Cricket Board had been "too soft" and recommended penalties for any "fit healthy player" being unavailable for national duty.

"If players want to go home for a break from England duty, dock their money. Better still don't select them unless they can agree to be available for a whole series."

Boycott described Silverwood, ECB chief executive Tom Harrison, director of cricket Ashley Giles and
chairman of selectors Ed Smith as the "our unwise men".

"It is a barmy way to run English cricket, they should all be ashamed and embarrassed," he added.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...nd-boycott-tells-ecb/articleshow/81406585.cms

National duty should always come first no matter how lucrative a contract you might get from IPL.
If you want to neglect the national duty & want to play in any league then you must retire from international cricket & then you can easily play in the leagues all over the world.

 

[HitWicket]

Exactly, clearly that fella is off his .... spewing nonsense as usual without anything to back him up. Telling folk what the laws are in their country, majority of decent companies at the very least will have some sort of pension scheme here

Like you say, it's a legal requirement. In addition to that the ECB financial statement also states "The Group operates both a defined contribution pension scheme and a defined benefit pension scheme." anyway.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] Where do you get your info from , everyone in England gets a bloody pension!

India is not a welfare state as UK. Only govt. employees eg. in State Bank etc get pension
So BCCI has setup a pension scheme, on top of provident funds so that players who represented India/Ranji teams at least do not have drive Taxis and live hand to mouth to hand.
What [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] was asking is where is the proof that ECB as a board gives a special pension on top of all other benefits that the UK provides.
[MENTION=139981]HitWicket[/MENTION] who is shifting goal posts now. You have no idea about the contract laws of India. Stick to what you know mate.

 

[HitWicket]

India is not a welfare state as UK. Only govt. employees eg. in State Bank etc get pension
So BCCI has setup a pension scheme, on top of provident funds so that players who represented India/Ranji teams at least do not have drive Taxis and live hand to mouth to hand.
What [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] was asking is where is the proof that ECB as a board gives a special pension on top of all other benefits that the UK provides.
[MENTION=139981]HitWicket[/MENTION] who is shifting goal posts now. You have no idea about the contract laws of India. Stick to what you know mate.

Employers pension schemes doesn't contain any government contribution (other than in the form of tax relief), it's an additional pension the players will receive on top of the governments provided state pension.

Section 27 of the Indian Contract Act is very explicit and clear:

Every agreement by which any one is restrained from exercising a lawful profession, trade or business of any kind, is to that extent void

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Employers pension schemes doesn't contain any government contribution (other than in the form of tax relief), it's an additional pension the players will receive on top of the governments provided state pension.

Section 27 of the Indian Contract Act is very explicit and clear:

Where did I say it is Govt. contributions. What i said it is only government employees in India get pension post retirement. That is on top of provident fund money. BCCI is not a government entity it still is a private corporation . In UK people get pension from state. What pension is provided by ECB on top of that as you are claiming ?

 

[King_Kohli]

Option of skipping IPL never on table, can’t ignore financial advantages: Jos Buttler

“No nothing of that sort (was discussed with me) and I don’t know about other players. I think an agreement about participation in IPL was in place well before the New Zealand Test series was announced,” Buttler said

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/ipl/not-skip-ipl-financial-advantages-jos-buttler-7221491/

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Option of skipping IPL never on table, can’t ignore financial advantages: Jos Buttler

“No nothing of that sort (was discussed with me) and I don’t know about other players. I think an agreement about participation in IPL was in place well before the New Zealand Test series was announced,” Buttler said

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/ipl/not-skip-ipl-financial-advantages-jos-buttler-7221491/

Lol. People will go nuts. Boycott ka boycott ho gaya by buttler

 

[HitWicket]

Where did I say it is Govt. contributions. What i said it is only government employees in India get pension post retirement. That is on top of provident fund money. BCCI is not a government entity it still is a private corporation . In UK people get pension from state. What pension is provided by ECB on top of that as you are claiming ?

In the UK anyone employed legally generally has the right to 2 pensions. A state pension and a workplace pension. The state pension is provided by the government, the workplace pension is provided by the employer, in this case the ECB.

 

[AMSS]

Why would foreign courts have interpreted this clause? It's the India Contract Act, it has nothing to do with foreign courts. Indian courts are obliged to follow the precedent set by applying this act in the past.

Read my post carefully again. I didn't say foreign courts would interpret it. Rather, that because such a case involving sportsman has not come before the courts in India, lawyers would cite judgements in foreign courts for its persuasive value. The Indian courts would consider it but not be obliged to follow.

Two things now. Indian Contract Act is literally the letter of the law. It's not a precedent. A previous case law is precedent. Indian courts would consider if the contract between Indian players with BCCI/State Associations are restrictive in nature or reasonable. There's ZERO chance of it being held restrictive. Your claim that no way such a practice won't be held restrictive doesn't make it so. Cite a single case from India where it has been held that way.

Only a player who has retired and not presently contracted could succeed in courts.

This leads to two questions. Would such a cricketer be wanted in foreign leagues? And would they be keen for a role in overseas leagues if it puts at risk their further involvement in Indian cricket as coach/commentator etc?

And no matter who the BCCI brought along, the players would still not be employees of the BCCI and therefore the BCCI would not have the legal right to impose restraint of trade conditions on them. I've already conceded that this is unlikely to ever go to court given the fear of repurcussions so yes, the exploitation will likely continue.

Where are you getting these crazy ideas from? I personally advise a ton of Indian companies who work as contractor for Google in India. These companies then have their people work for Google at their office across India. Do you think they could separately work for, let's say, Microsoft at the same time and succeed in court citing restraint of trade? Lol

 

[AMSS]

Section 27 of the Indian Contract Act is very explicit and clear:

Only someone totally clueless with how courts interpret a so-called simple and explicit provision of law would cite that ICA with that innocence. lol

 

[AMSS]

[MENTION=139981]HitWicket[/MENTION]

Here's just one generic article on that quoted section. https://taxguru.in/corporate-law/restraint-trade-exceptions-2.html

Believe me, in a law school library, there would be an entire rack full of books just devoted to that one section. And if you count case laws, it'd fill the entire library lmao.

So no, it's not explicit and simple as you say.

 

[someone21]

It becoming like the football club vs country debate.

At the end of the day, be it IPL or EPL/La Liga, these top leagues gives the players the $$$ and stability. In national matches, many players rest, withdraw or eventually retire from it to further club career.

 

[AMSS]

The contracted English players are allowed by ECB to play in IPL not because it'd constitute restraint of trade. Both the ECB and players know English courts would take the side of ECB and hold the contract valid.

Rather, both the ECB and players know the latter would simply junk their national contracts in favor of IPL

 

[silentkiller187]

Boycott makes sense he just didn't articulate it correctly. if a player is contracted to play x amount of international games but they are only available for a lesser x amount of games due to participation in other leagues then of course the player should be "docked" his share for the games he has missed, the ipl/psl/bbl etc team will cover the rest of the contract, let the players decide where they want to play, that will quickly separate the serious ones from the ones looking for a quick paycheck.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

In the UK anyone employed legally generally has the right to 2 pensions. A state pension and a workplace pension. The state pension is provided by the government, the workplace pension is provided by the employer, in this case the ECB.

There is no such thing in India when working for Private entities. You get your Provident Fund, which is part your contribution and part employers.

So i read a bit about workplace pension and it looks like mostly it is packaged as part of your Cost To Company.. Is this true ? ie. if your total cost to company is 125000 pounds is this workplace pension paid on top of that by employer? What I want to understand is no private organisation will distribute money and pension for free to it's employees.. So it looks a lot like WorkPlace pension is same as Provident Fund.. But you may know better. Also ECB workplace pension is contract law mandated.

BCCI's pension scheme is completely on top of all other benefits. Don't think any other board does that where they give pension like a Government Run entity, on top of all benefits as required by the law of the land.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Read my post carefully again. I didn't say foreign courts would interpret it. Rather, that because such a case involving sportsman has not come before the courts in India, lawyers would cite judgements in foreign courts for its persuasive value. The Indian courts would consider it but not be obliged to follow.

Two things now. Indian Contract Act is literally the letter of the law. It's not a precedent. A previous case law is precedent. Indian courts would consider if the contract between Indian players with BCCI/State Associations are restrictive in nature or reasonable. There's ZERO chance of it being held restrictive. Your claim that no way such a practice won't be held restrictive doesn't make it so. Cite a single case from India where it has been held that way.

Only a player who has retired and not presently contracted could succeed in courts.

This leads to two questions. Would such a cricketer be wanted in foreign leagues? And would they be keen for a role in overseas leagues if it puts at risk their further involvement in Indian cricket as coach/commentator etc?




Where are you getting these crazy ideas from? I personally advise a ton of Indian companies who work as contractor for Google in India. These companies then have their people work for Google at their office across India. Do you think they could separately work for, let's say, Microsoft at the same time and succeed in court citing restraint of trade? Lol

You cannot work for two orgs like Microsoft and Google in India at the same time.
It is clearly mentioned in the offer letter. I have worked for above orgs. Well in any case why would you want to do when each of those entity pays you handsomely.. Like BCCI pays and takes care of it cricketers.
No other board can match that. Thankfully our cricketers now don't have to run their mouths and create sensationalist content on youtube to create some cheap videos for views.

 

[BaankeJi]

Geoff Boycott is same cricketer who participated in rebel tour of South Africa and ended up being banned from England cricket ? And later on got knighthood?? So nice of him to talk about this topic. Legend.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Geoff Boycott is same cricketer who participated in rebel tour of South Africa and ended up being banned from England cricket ? And later on got knighthood?? So nice of him to talk about this topic. Legend.

Wait so he sold his moral principles for a bit money with apartheid supporting SA Govt ?
On top of that he is convicted for domestic violence. And he has the gall to give lectures of morality and country etc to current cricketers... lol.

 

[MenInG]

The English cricketers should not miss international duty at the expense of playing in the IPL, former England captain Michael Atherton has said in the wake of the team's disastrous Ashes campaign in Australia. England have already conceded the five-match series Down Under against their traditional rivals after suffering heavy defeats in the first three Tests, the poor show attracting widespread criticism from former players. "Players should not miss international duty to play in the IPL, nor be rested and rotated to allow them to play elsewhere. The carry-on during the winter, and at the start of the English summer, should not happen again," Atherton wrote in his column for 'The Times'.

With regards to the glitzy IPL, the former captain also had other suggestions to help improve England's performance in the international arena's red-ball format.

"The leading multi-format players are paid seven-figure sums, but, incredibly, the ECB washes its hands off them for two months of the year during the Indian Premier League.

"The players should be told that, while the ECB will be accommodating of the request to play in the IPL, a 12-month contract is exactly that, and the granting of a no-objection certificate to play in the IPL and other franchised competitions is contingent on it being in the best interests of the England team," Atherton said.

Some of the prominent England players who have played in the IPL from the current setup are Jos Buttler, Ben Stokes, Sam Curran, Moeen Ali, Eoin Morgan, Adil Rashid, Dawid Malan and Jonny Bairstow.

Atherton, who has captained England in 54 Tests from 1993 to 2001, felt Ben Stokes is a "viable alternative" to replace Joe Root as skipper for the five-day format.

Root, who had a magnificent run with the bat in 2021, has been under the scanner for his captaincy in Australia.

"There have been so many errors here, from selection to strategy, that the captain has to bear personal responsibility ... This could have been a much closer series had Root got things right on the field," Atherton wrote.

"Root has been a good England captain, and has always carried himself superbly and is an incredible ambassador for the sport, but having done the job for five years and having had three cracks at the Ashes, including two awful campaigns in Australia, it is time for someone else to have a go.

"Ben Stokes is a viable alternative, having done an excellent job as a stand-in briefly in the summer. His bowling is starting to wind down, and, as he may not get into England's best T20 side now, he can be given a breather during those matches," Atherton added.

As far as head coach Chris Silverhood is concerned, Atherton said it's time he is shown the door.

"At the moment there seems to be an absence of authority and an unwillingness to challenge the players.

"There is no way Silverwood will (or should) survive the Ashes, which should allow a reorganisation of the coaching and selecting responsibilities." The fourth Test begins in Sydney on January 5.

https://sports.ndtv.com/the-ashes-2...-michael-atherton-after-ashes-debacle-2683289

 

[jnaveen1980]

Rory burns, Zack crawley, Dawid Malan, Jo Root, Robinson, Anderson, Broad, Leach,. None of them are part of the IPL Morgan/Stokes/Butler/Woakes/Curran/Bairstow are some of the few who play the IPL. Moeen has retired. Smith/Warner/Cummins all play the IPL. Guys like Cummins deserve all the money he earns. Guy works harder than anyone in the world.

 

[U$ofA]

Things are getting ridiculous with the IPL blame. I mean what is Artherton going on about? IPL is getting the blame for Eng's lame show in the Ashes. Give me a break.

 

[HitWicket]

Things are getting ridiculous with the IPL blame. I mean what is Artherton going on about? IPL is getting the blame for Eng's lame show in the Ashes. Give me a break.

This extract is from an article where Atherton points out a range of contributing issues to English test cricket. The IPL clearly doesn't help the English test team therefore is a valid point and he gives some pretty reasonable proposals.

 

[Varun]

England are clearly not good enough, IPL or no IPL. And everybody here knows what a massive critic I am of the league.

Folks like Atherton are also part of the problem. Should have been discarded a few years into his career like Aakash Chopra or Deep Dasgupta but instead, England made a generational legend out of him. Now how can a bog average 30-something test batsman be a good commentator/analyst?

Same with Hussain, Vaughan etc.

 

[HitWicket]

England are clearly not good enough, IPL or no IPL. And everybody here knows what a massive critic I am of the league.

Folks like Atherton are also part of the problem. Should have been discarded a few years into his career like Aakash Chopra or Deep Dasgupta but instead, England made a generational legend out of him. Now how can a bog average 30-something test batsman be a good commentator/analyst?

Same with Hussain, Vaughan etc.

Because as with a variety of other things such as coaching and captaincy you don't have to be a great player to be a good commentator/analyst.

 

[James]

England are clearly not good enough, IPL or no IPL. And everybody here knows what a massive critic I am of the league.

Folks like Atherton are also part of the problem. Should have been discarded a few years into his career like Aakash Chopra or Deep Dasgupta but instead, England made a generational legend out of him. Now how can a bog average 30-something test batsman be a good commentator/analyst?

Same with Hussain, Vaughan etc.

You’re right about England being a poor side at the moment, but I disagree with you about Atherton and Hussain, as they are both brilliant analysts.

Being a commentator and broadcaster is a completely different skill to playing cricket.

 

[the Great Khan]

The reason they talk about the IPL is there window and thee effect on the English cricket calendar. Also its a long league.

 

[Maher96]

Nobody ever thought England would challenge Australia with this bunch of players. Problem was England no options with the ball. They heavily missed Archer and some sort of spin from Rashid or Moeen. Woakes and Broad also were toothless and I see this to be the end for Broad and Anderson.

England will have to move on, Bairstow and Butler if they can open in ODI they should be able to do it for England.

Middle order is the same the over emphasis on short ball cricket has hurt England the most.

 

[topspin]

England are clearly not good enough, IPL or no IPL. And everybody here knows what a massive critic I am of the league.

Folks like Atherton are also part of the problem. Should have been discarded a few years into his career like Aakash Chopra or Deep Dasgupta but instead, England made a generational legend out of him. Now how can a bog average 30-something test batsman be a good commentator/analyst?

Same with Hussain, Vaughan etc.

One of these is a technical skill (batsman) and the other is analytical (commentator/analyst) so you can't really conflate these skillsets when it comes to assessing their current role.

Atherton and Hussain are perhaps the two best cricketing minds I've heard in the comm. box. Hussain was a brilliant tactician as captain. In fact, Tendulkar rated him as the best captain that he ever played against.

 

[gazza619]

Last time i checked, IPL helped with test cricket.

What happened now?

 

[U$ofA]

This extract is from an article where Atherton points out a range of contributing issues to English test cricket. The IPL clearly doesn't help the English test team therefore is a valid point and he gives some pretty reasonable proposals.

The reason they talk about the IPL is there window and thee effect on the English cricket calendar. Also its a long league.

We all know that the IPL is not only here to stay, but is going to be a huge factor. The sooner everyone accepts it the better.

The focus should not be to blame IPL. But find ways to work around it. Find solutions that will take the IPL effect (if any) into account.

There is an auction upcoming. Watch about a 1000+ players clamoring for about 80-100 open slots. So IPL will be a top priority for players. The question/challenge for coaches is how to overcome/accommodate this.

 

[HitWicket]

We all know that the IPL is not only here to stay, but is going to be a huge factor. The sooner everyone accepts it the better.

The focus should not be to blame IPL. But find ways to work around it. Find solutions that will take the IPL effect (if any) into account.

There is an auction upcoming. Watch about a 1000+ players clamoring for about 80-100 open slots. So IPL will be a top priority for players. The question/challenge for coaches is how to overcome/accommodate this.

Solutions like what exactly, other than what Atherton has suggested?

 

[U$ofA]

Solutions like what exactly, other than what Atherton has suggested?

That is for the ECB to come up with. There are enough people in employment with fat paychecks to do the thinking.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Buttler has openly said that if there is a collision course between playing for England and IPL he would choose IPL for that period of time. I fully expect some sort of strong initiative to be taken by ECB to ensure that players duration of participation in IPL is curtailed.

Therefore, I fully expect players like Buttler, Bairstow and even Archer to have premature test retirements.

 

[U$ofA]

Buttler has openly said that if there is a collision course between playing for England and IPL he would choose IPL for that period of time. I fully expect some sort of strong initiative to be taken by ECB to ensure that players duration of participation in IPL is curtailed.

Therefore, I fully expect players like Buttler, Bairstow and even Archer to have premature test retirements.

The IPL teams will be very hesitant to pick players that are not available for the entire duration of the IPL season. Especially the business end - The Playoffs.

Will be very interesting to see what the ECB do.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Happy Birthday, Geoffrey Boycott

- 144 international matches
- 9196 international runs
- 23 international centuries
- 51 half-centuries