Does India’s cricket success depends solely on Jasprit Bumrah?

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First of all, congratulations to all Indian supporters. I know this thread risks sounding like I am trying to undermine India’s achievements. However, trust me, my intentions are only to engage in a meaningful discussion. And I think this is a really important discussion, so I request the mods to not amalgamate this thread with another.

I made a similar thread a few years ago but that was for Kohli. Clearly, now, Indian batting has diversified and they have more options and are not overly reliant on Kohli anymore.

However, I now feel like the Indian team - not just the bowling - is heavily reliant on Bumrah for their wins. I watched 2 India games this WC from start to finish, arguably their 2 hardest games, and it was a Bumrah show through and through.

For instance, in the Pakistan vs India game, Bumrah was the difference. Not only did he pick important wickets at important times but he was unstoppably economical at the death which added pressure on the batsmen and helped other bowlers. It was a copycat performance in the final.

Frankly, as other posters have said in the Bumrah thread, I would even credit some of Hardik and other bowlers wickets to Bumrah because of the pressure he created. Nothing to take away from Hardik, he’s a great cricketer but he got those wickets at the end because of the pressure Bumrah created as the batsmen couldn’t even get bat on ball for Bumrah.

In both matches, India had basically lost the game until Bumrah came through and delivered an unrealistically amazing spell.

Moreover, India’s performances in their previous tournaments where Bumrah hasn’t played has been relatively average for their quality. For instance, a group exit in 2021 followed by a string of performances that lacked impetus.

Hence, this raises the all important question, is the Indian team just all Bumrah or nothing?
 
They seem reliant on Bumrah, Rohit, and Kohli.

Once these 3 retire, it would be interesting to see how they do.
 
No big secret here. I mean exaggeration to say India is a big nothing if not for Bumrah but he's a massive part of this team. He's easily been the MVP for this team since his debut as far I am concerned.

All the teams are going to be diminished if you take out the most potent bowling weapon - Cummins, McGrath etc - but it's probably true that not having Bumrah in this Indian side would have a bigger and disproportional impact.
 
With a bowler like Bumrah, other players tend to play in their comfort zone because they are winning anyway. So Kohli will continue to play at his preferred SR knowing Bumrah led bowling attack would do the job.

But if there were no Bumrah, would the selectors and fans have the patience with Kohli's game and the consistent losses? Kohli and the rest of batsmen would have to step up or ship out. They'd be forced to pick up the slack.

Basically these things are dynamic and a static view like OP is not the correct way to perceive it.
 
Arshdeep is the joint highest wicket taker and improved every game and his best came in the final.
He and Farooqi now hold the record for most wickets in a single tournament at 17..
He bowled yorkers in his last over.

Kuldeep was excellent in all games except final.. so no we were actually pretty diverse and that’s why we won.
 
We have a Jordan and we have a pippen too..just need a consistent Rodman..
 
If no bumrah then there are other bowlers too.
Rana is there who is good
Siraj although 50 50 has his moments

Then there are more young stars. Mayank yadav etc
Himanshu chauhan and many more
Tyagi
 
First of all, congratulations to all Indian supporters. I know this thread risks sounding like I am trying to undermine India’s achievements. However, trust me, my intentions are only to engage in a meaningful discussion. And I think this is a really important discussion, so I request the mods to not amalgamate this thread with another.

I made a similar thread a few years ago but that was for Kohli. Clearly, now, Indian batting has diversified and they have more options and are not overly reliant on Kohli anymore.

However, I now feel like the Indian team - not just the bowling - is heavily reliant on Bumrah for their wins. I watched 2 India games this WC from start to finish, arguably their 2 hardest games, and it was a Bumrah show through and through.

For instance, in the Pakistan vs India game, Bumrah was the difference. Not only did he pick important wickets at important times but he was unstoppably economical at the death which added pressure on the batsmen and helped other bowlers. It was a copycat performance in the final.

Frankly, as other posters have said in the Bumrah thread, I would even credit some of Hardik and other bowlers wickets to Bumrah because of the pressure he created. Nothing to take away from Hardik, he’s a great cricketer but he got those wickets at the end because of the pressure Bumrah created as the batsmen couldn’t even get bat on ball for Bumrah.

In both matches, India had basically lost the game until Bumrah came through and delivered an unrealistically amazing spell.

Moreover, India’s performances in their previous tournaments where Bumrah hasn’t played has been relatively average for their quality. For instance, a group exit in 2021 followed by a string of performances that lacked impetus.

Hence, this raises the all important question, is the Indian team just all Bumrah or nothing?
Is Pakistan Shaheen or nothing ?
Is Australia Cummins or nothing?
Is Bangladesh Shakib or nothing?
Is England Buttler or nothing?

Every team has one Player.. one champion bowler.. one champion batter who performs at key moments and wins tournaments.
Bumrah will not play forever. We will find another players. Just like Pakistan will find another champion players.
 
I think the dip in threat AUS poses without Cummins is way LESS than the dip in Team India's potency without Bumrah.

So the OP is right to an extent.

But to repeat myself, the team adjusts. Batsman would score at a higher clip, take more risks etc etc to balance things out.
 
To be very honest, India's success does rely on Bumrah. Bumrah has been the key to their bowling line-up. Other bowlers feel comfortable around him because they know, Bumrah is a game-changer and can do wonders anytime like he did in games against Pakistan and South Africa.

Once Bumrah is out, Not sure India has any game-changer like Bumrah is.
 
Is Pakistan Shaheen or nothing ?
Is Australia Cummins or nothing?
Is Bangladesh Shakib or nothing?
Is England Buttler or nothing?

Every team has one Player.. one champion bowler.. one champion batter who performs at key moments and wins tournaments.
Bumrah will not play forever. We will find another players. Just like Pakistan will find another champion players.

Gabba test

No Bumrah
No Ashwin
No Jadeja
No Kohli
No Shami

Rohit's contribution was minimal. India made history. India's team composition will be very different. In limited overs they will have more multi skilled aggressive players.
 
One thing is sure. if Bumrah had played on those early season Australian pitches in 2022 world things would have been different.
 
Others can do the job too, but definitely it's Bumrah who can win matches from a lost position. I doubt others would do it without him.
 
I think the dip in threat AUS poses without Cummins is way LESS than the dip in Team India's potency without Bumrah.

So the OP is right to an extent.

But to repeat myself, the team adjusts. Batsman would score at a higher clip, take more risks etc etc to balance things out.
Pandya is more important against Australia. To some extent Ashwin

Australia has never beaten INdia when Pandya played in world cup ODI or world cup T20. So far 0-4 record. With Ashwin 2-4 record.

Screenshot-2024-07-01-224829.jpg
 
This was well balanced Indian T20 side. Everyone contributed and played their part. However, even this was almost not enough due to Klassen blitz.

2023 ODI team was balanced too but lost to Travis Head storm.

2019 WC was one trick pony with Kohli or Sharma.
 
This was well balanced Indian T20 side. Everyone contributed and played their part. However, even this was almost not enough due to Klassen blitz.

2023 ODI team was balanced too but lost to Travis Head storm.

2019 WC was one trick pony with Kohli or Sharma.

2023 - If India had chased people will be talking differently. Second of all loss of Pandya significantly impacted the balance. They had a rubbish pitch that will get better under lights. They could have gone with Australia's nemesis Ashwin while dropping Siraj. Also Pandya is way more clutch against Australia. SKY is a quota player in ODI. Because of that India's tail became very long. KL Rahul needlessly batted so slowly citing the long tail as reason. But fact is India never won an ICC tournament since KL Rahul made debut. INdia won in 2013. He made debut in 2014. That's it. Now he is gone. Bang. India won.
 
Is Pakistan Shaheen or nothing ?
Is Australia Cummins or nothing?
Is Bangladesh Shakib or nothing?
Is England Buttler or nothing?

Every team has one Player.. one champion bowler.. one champion batter who performs at key moments and wins tournaments.
Bumrah will not play forever. We will find another players. Just like Pakistan will find another champion players.
I would have to agree with @AMSS.

Cummins', Shaheen's or Shakib's omission from their respective teams is less likely to have as much of an impact as Bumrah's omission would. Dare I say, India would have lost quite a few games in this tournament if not for Bumrah.

For instance, as someone gave an example above, if you were to remove McGrath from the great Australian side, it would have a pretty big impact but that impact, in my opinion, is likely to be pale compared to the impact Bumrah's omission would have from this Indian team. It is quite evident that Bumrah is heavily carrying this team by constantly removing them from high pressure situations.
 
They seem reliant on Bumrah, Rohit, and Kohli.

Once these 3 retire, it would be interesting to see how they do.
I used to think that the Indian batting side was all Kohli or not nothing for a long time, and they indeed were. But with new batting talent coming in - and even clutch players like Hardik, that is no longer the case. But now it seems that the entire team, not just the bowling, is reliant on Bumrah.
 
Gabba test

No Bumrah
No Ashwin
No Jadeja
No Kohli
No Shami

Rohit's contribution was minimal. India made history. India's team composition will be very different. In limited overs they will have more multi skilled aggressive players.
That was a great win indeed but whether the same team would be able to replicate that performance 8 times out of 10 ... I don't know. Nevertheless, the Indian team is great, even unstoppable, with Bumrah. However, I am unsure how good they would be without him.

Frankly, I think he not only makes other bowlers look better than they actually are but also makes average totals look big because of how much pressure he creates. Almost takes the pitch out of the equation.
 
Bumra is to today's Indian team what Sachin was in the 90s.
Except the Indian of the 90s hardly won anything. Bumrah is making an actual difference. No disrespect to Sachin - he was the lone wolf for Indian batting at the time but Bumrah is making an impact as well.
 
Don't take things for granted.

For Bumrah to keep his form, fitness, bowling variations - he would have needed support from the team as well. So while the Indian team enjoys what Bumrah brings to the table, the management and coaching team must also be praised for their efforts in handling him.

Shaheen was a sensation- then what happened? Shadab was a sensation when he started- what happened? Babar is so stubborn that he has put no thought in improving his game at all.

Credit to Bumrah for keeping himself focused and on top of his game for so long.
 
Arshdeep is the joint highest wicket taker and improved every game and his best came in the final.
He and Farooqi now hold the record for most wickets in a single tournament at 17..
He bowled yorkers in his last over.

Kuldeep was excellent in all games except final.. so no we were actually pretty diverse and that’s why we won.
@JaDed, you have followed cricket long enough to know that cricket is not a game understood through stats and figures. I have a lot of respect for Kuldeep and Arshdeep - they are good bowlers in their own right.

But my point here is that Kuldeep and Arshdeep's stats don't paint an accurate picture of just how good Bumrah was. The amount of pressure Bumrah creates on the batsmen mean that the batters look to play him out, attack others, and in the process give their wicket away. Not all but the other bowlers at least owe some of their wickets to Bumrah - a cricketing equivalent of assists.

If you were to observe the other bowlers performances in isolation - they were good but certainly not match-winning. For instance, in the Pakistan vs India game, the match was pretty much lost until Bumrah came through and not only got the prized wicket of Rizwan but also bowled an incredibly economical over which added even more pressure than the wicket - under this pressure, the batters struggled to play other bowlers like Axar and Arshdeep.

The South African game was another even more emphasised example of this. The game was basically lost until Bumrah came in, got wickets and bowled an over for 1 run (AFAIK?). The delivery that Hardik got Klassen on was pretty average and even the commentators mentioned this. But because Bumrah's over created so much pressure, Hardik was the only bowler they could attack and they were under so much pressure that even an average delivery yielded a wicket.
 
AUS losing Lyon would be more costly for them than India losing Ashwin. Although Ashwin is without a doubt a superior spinner. It's not a straight equation.

And once again, randomly taking Bumrah out makes no sense. If India were a team without Bumrah, they'd adapt by being more ruthless with their selection and the slack in the system would be picked up.
 
Bumrah Play big part but all the players are deserved the credit.

Bumrah is our precious diamond .need to take care .

No need to Play him any useless T20 and odi.

Next assignment for him to play test cricket in australia .

Even i think he is not needed for Bangladesh test series .
 
Bumrah is possibly the best ever white ball bowler and one of the best all.format bowlers. Ofcourse Indian team will suffer without him as they did in 2022 world cup. Very skillful and has great head on his shoulders. He is the go to.guy for any captain. He's 30 years old and hopefully has a couple of more.world cups in him. It will be tough to replace him. Pakistan has been trying to find another Waseem Akram for 20 years. No one came close and possibly no one will. These are rare jewels that are almost impossible to replace.
 
No. This is a ridiculous myth.

There is a impact/match rating for players in this tournament . Every other team had only 3 players who were rated 40+.

India had 6 !

Pandya
Bumrah
Axar
Rohit
Arshdeep
Kuldeep

in that order. We won because of all of them.

Those attributing it to 1 one player or India winning to a Saffer choke don't know what they are talking about.

More than half our team were simply elite T20 players .

SKY and Pant were good. Rated between 20 and 30.

The remaining were mediocre to awful

Kohli - 15.6
Siraj - 15.2
Dube - 12.4
Jadeja - 6.1
 
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Solely on bumrah is too far. Yes he's a major contributing force, however pandya has been contributing significantly , His wicket of Klaseen sealed the deal and many times he's gotten India out a rut.

People may praise kohli for his 2022 innings against pakistan but people forget how well pandya held the line.

Rohit innings in the semi final was what sealed the deal for india as Travis head had unleashed hell on bumrah that day + Rohit should be praised as a good leader, he only sucks in his prejudice and love affair with kohli but otherwise it's fine.

Kohli's deapite having a crap tournament should be praised for the final.

Similarly it was Pant's innings that won it for india against pakistan as he made the difference because overs 16-20 were impossible to play, his Attacking nature in PP made the difference.

Only passenger was siraj who got booted out correctly lol
 
He's our best player across formats, but I think we have at least three indispensible players in each format.

T20s:
1. Bumrah
2. Hardik
3. SKY

ODIs
1. Bumrah
2. Shami
3. Kohli

Tests
1. Bumrah
2. Jadeja
3. Ashwin
 
Very few batsmen in the world have been able to pick him.

Without a doubt a crucial bowler
 
No. This is a ridiculous myth.

There is a impact/match rating for players in this tournament . Every other team had only 3 players who were rated 40+.

India had 6 !

Pandya
Bumrah
Axar
Rohit
Arshdeep
Kuldeep

in that order. We won because of all of them.

Those attributing it to 1 one player or India winning to a Saffer choke don't know what they are talking about.

More than half our team were simply elite T20 players .

SKY and Pant were good. Rated between 20 and 30.

The remaining were mediocre to awful

Kohli - 15.6
Siraj - 15.2
Dube - 12.4
Jadeja - 6.1
I don’t think it’s a ridiculous myth. It’s an objective observation which you could argue is wrong but calling it a myth is an exaggeration.

I appreciate the impact player statistic that you’ve shared. However, as I said in an earlier post, cricket is never understood properly through stats and figures. Impact ratings are more helpful but nevertheless stats. The impact rating shows that Pandya got those wickets but it doesn’t show that the batsmen had no choice but to take risks against Pandya because scoring against Bumrah was not an option.

For instance, Pandya didn’t create any impact in this initial spell during the middle overs but had great figures during the end in the final. Was Pandya bowling a lot better objectively the second time around? No. The only difference was that he was bowling after an unplayable over by Bumrah. This, in my opinion, is the cricketing equivalent of an assist.

And I will reiterate that Pandya is not just carrying the bowling lineup but also the entire team because his ability to produce unplayable spells gives the batsmen comfort to post average totals or bat within themselves.

Don’t mistake me for arguing that South Africa choked. I think India won fair and square - heavily carried by Bumrah but Bumrah is part of the Indian team so I don’t understand why you’re getting so defensive about trying to have an objective discussion in good faith.
 
I don’t think it’s a ridiculous myth. It’s an objective observation which you could argue is wrong but calling it a myth is an exaggeration.

I appreciate the impact player statistic that you’ve shared. However, as I said in an earlier post, cricket is never understood properly through stats and figures. Impact ratings are more helpful but nevertheless stats. The impact rating shows that Pandya got those wickets but it doesn’t show that the batsmen had no choice but to take risks against Pandya because scoring against Bumrah was not an option.

For instance, Pandya didn’t create any impact in this initial spell during the middle overs but had great figures during the end in the final. Was Pandya bowling a lot better objectively the second time around? No. The only difference was that he was bowling after an unplayable over by Bumrah. This, in my opinion, is the cricketing equivalent of an assist.

And I will reiterate that Pandya is not just carrying the bowling lineup but also the entire team because his ability to produce unplayable spells gives the batsmen comfort to post average totals or bat within themselves.

Don’t mistake me for arguing that South Africa choked. I think India won fair and square - heavily carried by Bumrah but Bumrah is part of the Indian team so I don’t understand why you’re getting so defensive about trying to have an objective discussion in good faith.

Then your understanding of cricket is poor if you think Pandya did not create the impact that the numbers show.


Pandya bowled exceptionally well on that track. Slower balls on a full length and away from the arc was the perfect delivery to get rid of Klaasen on that track.

The idea was not to allow batters to not get under the ball because he can generate power to clear the fence.

Pandya nailed that plan to both Klaasen and somewhat to Miller and did not afford them the pace, length or line to hit over the top

He has executed similarly in other matches and created enough impact with the bat as well

Against Australia, Bumrah got smashed in his opening spell by Travis Head.

It was Axar who brought India back by restricting Australia to 3 runs in one over despite bowling to the same Travis Head .

He is the best defensive spinner in the world as he showed on belters in the IPL and when he choked Imad, Travis Head and the English lineup.

The one match he couldn't deliver with the ball was on a good batting surface against the best hitter of spin in Klaasen but he played arguably the knock of the match.

He was keeping India in the match when Kohli was stinking the joint even against Markram.
 
I don’t think it’s a ridiculous myth. It’s an objective observation which you could argue is wrong but calling it a myth is an exaggeration.

I appreciate the impact player statistic that you’ve shared. However, as I said in an earlier post, cricket is never understood properly through stats and figures. Impact ratings are more helpful but nevertheless stats. The impact rating shows that Pandya got those wickets but it doesn’t show that the batsmen had no choice but to take risks against Pandya because scoring against Bumrah was not an option.

For instance, Pandya didn’t create any impact in this initial spell during the middle overs but had great figures during the end in the final. Was Pandya bowling a lot better objectively the second time around? No. The only difference was that he was bowling after an unplayable over by Bumrah. This, in my opinion, is the cricketing equivalent of an assist.

And I will reiterate that Pandya is not just carrying the bowling lineup but also the entire team because his ability to produce unplayable spells gives the batsmen comfort to post average totals or bat within themselves.

Don’t mistake me for arguing that South Africa choked. I think India won fair and square - heavily carried by Bumrah but Bumrah is part of the Indian team so I don’t understand why you’re getting so defensive about trying to have an objective discussion in good faith.
It's not an easy question to answer. I think someone... maybe @AMSS made the point that the answer is dynamic and not static.

American Sport...or maybe just the NBA uses something called VORP - Value Over Replacement Player. It's a useful measure because it assesses relative value rather than just absolute.

Let's try and do something similar in Cricket. Bumrah's most likely replacement would be Siraj. I think that's pretty clear. So what do we lose in those circumstance

First runs - Bumrah's economy in all T20Is is 6.97. Siraj's is 8.56. So 1.6 more runs an over i.e. - 6.4 runs. Given Bumrah's recent improvement, I feel safe marking that up to 10 runs.
Wickets - Bumrah's Strike Rate is 17 while Siraj's is 18.5 Not a huge difference on the face of it...Siraj does have a knack of getting wickets. However, given the knock-on effects of Bumrah's bowling, I feel confident in stating that there's 1 wicket replacement value there.

Overall his value is very clear

With Bumrah in T20Is
TeamSpanMatWonDescendingLostTiedNRW/LAveRPOInnsHSLS
India2016-2024705213234.00019.817.456924582

Without Bumrah in T20Is during the same period

TeamSpanMatWonDescendingLostTiedNRW/LAveRPOInnsHSLS
India2017-20241006531222.09624.088.209922766


There's some noise in there since the games he skips are sometimes skipped by other big names as well but he essentially doubles our win-rate. Average per wicket drops by 5, RPO goes up by 0.7 i.e. 14 runs

I think India will have to plan on scoring an additional 15-20 runs to maintain the same win-rate without Bumrah. Can they do it? That's the tricky question.
 
Bumrah is one of the main reasons for India's success.

No shame in recognizing it. All the other players do contribute but he is their talisman.

As a spectator I haven't seen a bowler so likely to get a wicket. No wonder the batsmen don't have the ability to play him.
 
Gabba test

No Bumrah
No Ashwin
No Jadeja
No Kohli
No Shami

Rohit's contribution was minimal. India made history. India's team composition will be very different. In limited overs they will have more multi skilled aggressive players.
Can easily play arshdeep
Harshit rana at 8 and 9
Axar at 7
Avesh at 10. Extends and elongates batting. Deep batting.

And bring in maynak at 11 or kuldeep Sen

Infact this team would be just as strong. Deep batting. Variation in bowling. Speed bounce swing has it all.

Get rid of loldeep

Just don't have that useless kl Rahul anywhere near the team or iyer

Moment indua dropped both, lo and behold a title.
 
Pandya is more important against Australia. To some extent Ashwin

Australia has never beaten INdia when Pandya played in world cup ODI or world cup T20. So far 0-4 record. With Ashwin 2-4 record.

Screenshot-2024-07-01-224829.jpg
Pandya
Pant
Axar
Had all 3 played vs aus in 2023 world cup india wins that. And jaiswal.
 
It's not an easy question to answer. I think someone... maybe @AMSS made the point that the answer is dynamic and not static.

American Sport...or maybe just the NBA uses something called VORP - Value Over Replacement Player. It's a useful measure because it assesses relative value rather than just absolute.

Let's try and do something similar in Cricket. Bumrah's most likely replacement would be Siraj. I think that's pretty clear. So what do we lose in those circumstance

First runs - Bumrah's economy in all T20Is is 6.97. Siraj's is 8.56. So 1.6 more runs an over i.e. - 6.4 runs. Given Bumrah's recent improvement, I feel safe marking that up to 10 runs.
Wickets - Bumrah's Strike Rate is 17 while Siraj's is 18.5 Not a huge difference on the face of it...Siraj does have a knack of getting wickets. However, given the knock-on effects of Bumrah's bowling, I feel confident in stating that there's 1 wicket replacement value there.

Overall his value is very clear

With Bumrah in T20Is
TeamSpanMatWonDescendingLostTiedNRW/LAveRPOInnsHSLS
India2016-2024705213234.00019.817.456924582

Without Bumrah in T20Is during the same period

TeamSpanMatWonDescendingLostTiedNRW/LAveRPOInnsHSLS
India2017-20241006531222.09624.088.209922766


There's some noise in there since the games he skips are sometimes skipped by other big names as well but he essentially doubles our win-rate. Average per wicket drops by 5, RPO goes up by 0.7 i.e. 14 runs

I think India will have to plan on scoring an additional 15-20 runs to maintain the same win-rate without Bumrah. Can they do it? That's the tricky question.
I appreciate this great post. Hope other posters can learn to discuss objectively without getting defensive about it.

As you’ve suggested, Bumrah IS the difference - and a deep dive into the overall stats proves this.
 
You would be fool not to realize it. He is Murli of Indian team. Everything revolves around him even Arshdeep said his wickets are due to pressure Bumrah creates from other end.
 
At the end of the day you can't really convince anyone.

But give India's underpowered batting lineup and Bumrah to any other team and not a single team in this World Cup could've won this cup with that combination because no team had Kuldeep, Arshdeep and 2 world class allrounders in Axar and Pandya to back Bumrah up .

In these conditions at least , the rest of our bowlers and allrounders are more skilled than any other lineup .
 
I appreciate this great post. Hope other posters can learn to discuss objectively without getting defensive about it.

As you’ve suggested, Bumrah IS the difference - and a deep dive into the overall stats proves this.
Yes I think without him, we're a really good team. a win rate of 2 wins for every 1 loss confirms it. Very few teams can match that.

With him, we move to great team. A win loss ratio of 4 wins for every loss is all-time greatness. Australia at peak, WI at peak etc.

And this is his career including the early days when he had little variety. Over the last 2-3 years, as he's ascended to his peak, his stepping on to the ground virtually guarantees a win for India in almost all formats and white ball in particular.
 
Not solely but it depends largely on him. That doesn't mean you can select 10 other passengers and still win trophies but with a decent rest of the side, Bumrah can deliver the killer blow. In t20 a bowler only giving away 4.1 runs is unheard of.

So batsmen are playing him out and then need to take too many risks at the other end which costs wickets.
 
A batsman can play 20 overs.. a bowler can only bowl only 4 overs, he needs to be supported by good bowlers.
 
At the end of the day you can't really convince anyone.

But give India's underpowered batting lineup and Bumrah to any other team and not a single team in this World Cup could've won this cup with that combination because no team had Kuldeep, Arshdeep and 2 world class allrounders in Axar and Pandya to back Bumrah up .

In these conditions at least , the rest of our bowlers and allrounders are more skilled than any other lineup .

He basically covered all the horrendous blunders Indian team management made
 
He basically covered all the horrendous blunders Indian team management made

Tactical blunders didn't cost us so much as personnel blunders. That batting lineup didn't deserve to win but the bowlers and allrounders kept bailing this team out.
 
At the end of the day you can't really convince anyone.

But give India's underpowered batting lineup and Bumrah to any other team and not a single team in this World Cup could've won this cup with that combination because no team had Kuldeep, Arshdeep and 2 world class allrounders in Axar and Pandya to back Bumrah up .

In these conditions at least , the rest of our bowlers and allrounders are more skilled than any other lineup .
That’s an interesting thought experiment. And I have to agree, not all teams could have won with Bumrah in their team. But India probably would also not have won without Bumrah.
 
From the mid 90s till the early 00s India were nothing without Tendulkar. From the mid 00s till the early 10s India were nothing without Sehwag. From the early 10s till the late 10s India were nothing without Kohli. In the 20s India are nothing without Bumrah.

See if you spot a pattern here. We have become stronger and stronger over the last three decades and are arguably one of the best two teams in all formats, and easily the most consistent. All supposedly thanks to some critical player. The thing is we have a new critical player every decade or so. We keep producing them like clockwork.

After Bumrah there will be another cricketer who will be pivotal.
 
Tactical blunders didn't cost us so much as personnel blunders. That batting lineup didn't deserve to win but the bowlers and allrounders kept bailing this team out.
Superstition prevailed commonsense. "Same team" for whatever reason when there was scope for improvement.
 
While this Indian team is really well balanced and almost everyone put their hands up at various times when the team needed - Bumrah had his hand up every single game.

Bumrah to put simply is "first among the equals".

If I was the coach or the selector - I could have dropped anyone from the eleven on the match day - but the idea of dropping Bumrah or him getting injured would have sent shivers down the spine of Indian think tank and the fans - and a wave of relief for the opposition.

Think of the freedom in the strategy of the opponents - now they are not thinking about "playing around" Bumrah - essentially they now have license to attack all the 20 Indian overs - as opposed to now - wherein the 4 Bumrah overs are persona non grata.

This is not to suggest India would not have won without him - but it would have been very difficult without him. Just look at the games against Pakistan and SAF in the finals.
 
In white ball cricket, Pandya is key as well.

In T20Is, both Pandya and SKY are key.

Then kuldeep, Arshdeep and Axar all did well too.

Bumrah is the standout performer ofcourse and the biggest threat but he alone won't win a tournament. Nobody can.
 
In white ball cricket, Pandya is key as well.

In T20Is, both Pandya and SKY are key.

Then kuldeep, Arshdeep and Axar all did well too.

Bumrah is the standout performer ofcourse and the biggest threat but he alone won't win a tournament. Nobody can.

sure he went for 6 runs in 2 overs. THere other overs went for only 20 runs including an edged 4
 
Bumrah, Rohit, and Kuldeep are their top players. Bumrah is vastly underrated. He is the best bowler globally by far.
 
In white ball cricket, Pandya is key as well.

In T20Is, both Pandya and SKY are key.

Then kuldeep, Arshdeep and Axar all did well too.

Bumrah is the standout performer ofcourse and the biggest threat but he alone won't win a tournament. Nobody can.
No but you could drop any of the other players and India would still win. Drop Bumrah and chances would take a hit. There is simply no one who can replace him in skill.
 
From the mid 90s till the early 00s India were nothing without Tendulkar. From the mid 00s till the early 10s India were nothing without Sehwag. From the early 10s till the late 10s India were nothing without Kohli. In the 20s India are nothing without Bumrah.

See if you spot a pattern here. We have become stronger and stronger over the last three decades and are arguably one of the best two teams in all formats, and easily the most consistent. All supposedly thanks to some critical player. The thing is we have a new critical player every decade or so. We keep producing them like clockwork.

After Bumrah there will be another cricketer who will be pivotal.
And the consistent line “ After so so India won’t do well” hearing that from Ganguly’s time then came Dhoni then Kohli now Sharma and Bumrah” but the line remains the same.
 
In white ball cricket, especially T20I, Jasprit Bumrah is undoubtedly a clutch player for India. His precision, consistency, and ability to deliver under pressure have made him a key contributor to India's recent success, including their triumph in the 2024 T20I World Cup.

However, in Tests and to some extent in ODIs, Bumrah's approach needs to be less defensive. While he maintains an excellent economy rate and a commendable average in Tests, his strike rate could benefit from being reduced to below 50. This would require him to take more risks, which might impact his average but would increase his wicket taking ability.

Bumrah has a tendency to bowl looseners when hunting for wickets. For instance, his deliveries to Rizwan and Iftikhar were subpar and could have been easily dispatched. Nonetheless, the pressure he builds with his dot balls often forces batsmen into playing error shots, leading to their dismissals.

In essence, Bumrah is a second coming of Lasith Malinga, with a deceptive bowling action that makes his deliveries hard to read. This characteristic, combined with his skill and strategic play, makes his role as a very valuable player in India's bowling attack across all formats.
 
No but you could drop any of the other players and India would still win. Drop Bumrah and chances would take a hit. There is simply no one who can replace him in skill.
And that’s how most teams are, PCT without Wasim, Aus without Mcgrath, SA without Steyn, WI without Viv..
 
And that’s how most teams are, PCT without Wasim, Aus without Mcgrath, SA without Steyn, WI without Viv..

When it comes to winning matches with B team , India is still the best. Won't be 100%. But still very good. When Indian team was in Australia for world T20, 2022. India's B team took on full strength SA team and won the series.
 
And the consistent line “ After so so India won’t do well” hearing that from Ganguly’s time then came Dhoni then Kohli now Sharma and Bumrah” but the line remains the same.
Indian batting's always been reliable producing a superstar or two in each generation so I'm pretty confident there's someone waiting in the wings.

Pace bowling though - Bumrah's the first candidate for an All-Earth Vs. Aliens team we've produced. So I'm not optimistics about him being replaced immediately.

The matchwinning replacement for Bumrah probably won't be a like-for-like. It'll be the next great spinner or maybe a pack of good quality quicks - Ishant, Shami, Umesh style. Of that there are indications in the pipeline.
 
Indian batting's always been reliable producing a superstar or two in each generation so I'm pretty confident there's someone waiting in the wings.

Pace bowling though - Bumrah's the first candidate for an All-Earth Vs. Aliens team we've produced. So I'm not optimistics about him being replaced immediately.

The matchwinning replacement for Bumrah probably won't be a like-for-like. It'll be the next great spinner or maybe a pack of good quality quicks - Ishant, Shami, Umesh style. Of that there are indications in the pipeline.
True but we had Zaheer Khan who was literally the bowling captain, now we have Bumrah, we consistently need a system.
India’s win in Aus is a great proof of how planning works better, there was no Bumrah there but Siraj and Shardul(lol), Saini, Natraj..and that was a test match in their fortress.

Bumrah is definitely the X factor but a team combination is more worthy and mental capacity to believe.. as seen in the final.
 
Bumrah is possibly the best ever white ball bowler and one of the best all.format bowlers. Ofcourse Indian team will suffer without him as they did in 2022 world cup. Very skillful and has great head on his shoulders. He is the go to.guy for any captain. He's 30 years old and hopefully has a couple of more.world cups in him. It will be tough to replace him. Pakistan has been trying to find another Waseem Akram for 20 years. No one came close and possibly no one will. These are rare jewels that are almost impossible to replace.
+1 to the bold.

If you take out argubly the best ever white ball bowler then team will do differently.

But I somewhat also see the point made by OP. Many posters may not remember and example of Gaba test misses the point. before Bumrah debuted, India used to struggle competing in Aus, SA, Eng etc. After Bumrah, India won 2 tests series in Aus and Bumrah was instrumental. Just to put it in context, McGrath with ATG team won just one test series in India. India was all over Eng till Bumrah played. One off test played at different times is meanigless. Many times, othjer bowlers end of picking wickets due to pressure created by Bumrah.

India bowling stats may look ATG bolwing unit in test in the last 8 years when playing away( home they were good always), but that happen due to Bumrah. So many match changing spells in Aus, SA, Eng.... Indians never had ATG pacer even a lower tier, and here they have alsolutely the top tier ATG level pacer.

So yes, Bumrah influence is actually huge in Indian team. In terms of influence, reminds of Mcgrath. Yes, Warne was great but Aus team was just different with McGrath.
 
I have a question bumrah is mvp for India. Would he be considered an important player by other teams.
 
Then your understanding of cricket is poor if you think Pandya did not create the impact that the numbers show.


Pandya bowled exceptionally well on that track. Slower balls on a full length and away from the arc was the perfect delivery to get rid of Klaasen on that track.
Same Pandya in previous 3 matches( not couting dodgy pitches in early part)

1 over 14 runs in Semis against Eng
4 overs 47 runs against Aus in virtual knockout for Aus
3 overs 32 runs against BD
 
Putting Bumrah, Mcgrath etc inside BD team won't make them a world beater, so sole sucess due to one player is over statement, but influence of Bumrah has been outsized and far bigger than any other player for India in the last 5-6 years.
 
OP will find this article interesting,

--------------------

Forget Rohit, Arshdeep and Virat - India's T20 World Cup success had everything to do with Jasprit Bumrah​


India’s bowling, a crucial element in their overall performance, emerged as the hero in the final match at Barbados, ultimately winning them the tournament. Jasprit Bumrah was the leader of this pack who hunted down batters.
Thirty runs required from 30 balls with six wickets in hand to win the T20 WC. Who knew then that the South Africans would fail to achieve this target?

The Star Sports win predictor didn’t. However, the South Africans knew. They knew that Jasprit Bumrah had two more overs, and they had to get through that wall to win the cup. They had planned and executed a brutal attack on Axar Patel and other spinners to minimise the impact of those two overs of Bumrah.

This is not the first instance when the win predictor challenged Bumrah. It predicted that Pakistan would win their group game vs India at a similar game stage. It predicted Australia to win the Super 8 game during a similar stage. Jasprit Bumrah’s unpredictable brilliance consistently defied the win predictor algorithm, adding an element of intrigue to the game.

I suggest that the Star Sports team back-tests their algorithm and adds a factor to account for Martian talents like Jasprit Bumrah, Virat Kohli, and other game-changers to give a realistic prediction.

It is not an exaggeration to say that when teams chased against India in this World Cup, they planned their chase with 16 overs in mind rather than 20; such has been Bumrah’s bowling standard, not only in this World Cup but since he returned to international cricket from the severe back injury. In this WC, Jasprit Bumrah took 15 wickets at an economy rate of 4.18, striking after every 11 deliveries.

 
I have a question bumrah is mvp for India. Would he be considered an important player by other teams.
I would answer it this way.

Most other teams like Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan don't have enough to win with or without Bumrah.

However for 2-3 teams - Australia (Bumrah in place of Starc), England (Bumrah in place of any other bowler) and South Africa (Bumrah in place of any other bowler), adding Bumrah would make them favourite for the Cup.
 
IPL and WOrld T20. That is total of 3 months worth cricket. He needs a well earned rest. We will see more without Bumrah till next world cup
 
And that’s how most teams are, PCT without Wasim, Aus without Mcgrath, SA without Steyn, WI without Viv..
I meant it as a compliment to Bumrah. He is a pivotal cog in an already very strong team. I think he has more of an impact than all the players you mentioned because he is significantly better than the rest. The gap between Bumrah and the next best white bowl bowler is huge.
 
Pakistani fans must control their jealousy that India has Jasprit Bhumra wheras Pakistan has serial chokers in Shaheen, Rauf who have single handedly lost every big clutch game for Pakistan.

The warning signs were there but the selectors took no action. Shaheen and Rauf were even useless for Lahore Qalandars in the last psl.

These guys have shown time and time again that under pressure they just don't have it.
 
Were Aus dependent on McGrath during their golden period ? Of course yes. Did it mean that they were nothing without him ? No!

Same for this team India as well. Of course they rely on Bumrah because he's their biggest weapon. But they have also done well without him, including the most famous win at Gabba in 2021.

They are doing so good because it's all about collective performance. Unlike previous suads those were top heavy.
 
Pakistani fans must control their jealousy that India has Jasprit Bhumra wheras Pakistan has serial chokers in Shaheen, Rauf who have single handedly lost every big clutch game for Pakistan.

The warning signs were there but the selectors took no action. Shaheen and Rauf were even useless for Lahore Qalandars in the last psl.

These guys have shown time and time again that under pressure they just don't have it.
Am honestly amazed by the continued selection of Haris Rauf. He's been a serial bottler in crunch situation and is basically a meme. Like the comic relief in bollywood movies who thinks he's a hero.

PCB really need to take a leaf out of BCCI playbook and start being ruthless about selections.
 
Were Aus dependent on McGrath during their golden period ? Of course yes. Did it mean that they were nothing without him ? No!

Same for this team India as well. Of course they rely on Bumrah because he's their biggest weapon. But they have also done well without him, including the most famous win at Gabba in 2021.

They are doing so good because it's all about collective performance. Unlike previous suads those were top heavy.
McGrath rarely had to win Australia games from unwinnable positions as Bumrah has done numerous times in this tournament. That’s not to say that McGrath was not great but rather that he played with a better group of players overall.
 
As clutch as Bumrah is i don't want him to play any bilaterals. I just want him for ICC evenst as he plays IPL for practice. India has enough resources to win bilaterals without Bumrah.
 
As clutch as Bumrah is i don't want him to play any bilaterals. I just want him for ICC evenst as he plays IPL for practice. India has enough resources to win bilaterals without Bumrah.

Since Bumrah's debut, no bowler has bowled more overs than him in all formats. Not even the spinners such as Ashwin, Jaddu etc.

Shocking stat. Hopefully BCCI are not cavalier with Bumrah in latter half of his career.
 
McGrath rarely had to win Australia games from unwinnable positions as Bumrah has done numerous times in this tournament. That’s not to say that McGrath was not great but rather that he played with a better group of players overall.
Is there anything to back this up ?

I remember how Aussies went down several notches as a team and almost managed to lose a home series to India with likes of Nehra and Agarkar back in 2004 - with no McGrath and Warne playing.

Not to mention how they managed to lose Edgbastion in 2005 with McGrath injured and subsequently went on to lose the test series.

Aus won 84 and lost only 20 and drew 20 when McGrath was playing. Win Loss ratio of 4.2.
Without him during the same period, Aus won 18, lost 8 and drew 7. Win Loss ratio nearly halved to 2.2.
 
I would answer it this way.

Most other teams like Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan don't have enough to win with or without Bumrah.

However for 2-3 teams - Australia (Bumrah in place of Starc), England (Bumrah in place of any other bowler) and South Africa (Bumrah in place of any other bowler), adding Bumrah would make them favourite for the Cup.
South africa England Australia would easily crush teams if they had bumrah.

Bangladesh would make it to super 8s even.

Afghan could potentially reach semis again.
 
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