Does India’s recent ICC tournament record prove that they are the least talented Cricketing nation?

[Devadwal]

India is new chokers in the town in icc knockout. Period

 

[Rajdeep]

India is new chokers in the town in icc knockout. Period

That doesn't mean we are a least talented cricket nation. India has consistently ranked in top 3 ICC rankings for past decade and a half. It is the testimony that we are one of the most consistent team going around.

 

[Devadwal]

That doesn't mean we are a least talented cricket nation. India has consistently ranked in top 3 ICC rankings for past decade and a half. It is the testimony that we are one of the most consistent team going around.

Yes op is talking rubbish but still India is a new chokers .this tag can remove if they win the world cup .

 

[cricketjoshila]

The name of the thread is : Does India’s recent ICC tournament record prove that they are the least talented Cricketing nation?

Not : who is the least talented cricket nation.

You need to simply agree or disagree with that the statement.


At the end of the this is a mainly Pakistani forum, so they will put their opinion out their and are entitled to do so, you can agree or disagree that is fine as well but stay on topic

No. This is not a simple yes or no poll. This is a discussion forum.

So with the yes or no the reasons and logic behind the answer is also given.

I am disagreeing with the pakistani posters and telling them why.

 

[nextover666666]

No. This is not a simple yes or no poll. This is a discussion forum.

So with the yes or no the reasons and logic behind the answer is also given.

I am disagreeing with the pakistani posters and telling them why.

Yes it is a discussion, but a discussion about India only, you dont need to bring up Pakistan or any other team.

You can even simply argue, that India has done well enough to make finals or semi finals in almost all ICC events, despite them not winning, it shows that atleast India is a consistent team, and to be consistent it takes some sort of talent.

I do not agree with the OP as well, by the way, I stated that India is an indeed talented team, but they did underachieve, and to extent they are overrated, that does not take away, the talent, they have or the talent that is coming in.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No. This is not a simple yes or no poll. This is a discussion forum.

So with the yes or no the reasons and logic behind the answer is also given.

I am disagreeing with the pakistani posters and telling them why.

You are disagreeing with the pakistani posters by bringing Pakistani team's performance into discussion. This makes your arguement and you look weak here. I won't say India is the least talented cricket nation here but yeah India has underachieved in the past 10 years and you can thank IPL for that. So much money, power and good facilities but still fail to show up when it matters the most.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Yes it is a discussion, but a discussion about India only, you dont need to bring up Pakistan or any other team.

You can even simply argue, that India has done well enough to make finals or semi finals in almost all ICC events, despite them not winning, it shows that atleast India is a consistent team, and to be consistent it takes some sort of talent.

I do not agree with the OP as well, by the way, I stated that India is an indeed talented team, but they did underachieve, and to extent they are overrated, that does not take away, the talent, they have or the talent that is coming in.

Exactly this. India has underachieved in the last 10 years or so. Instead of accepting this some fans are getting triggered unnecessarily and throwing mud at Pakistan.

 

[sweep_shot]

They are not "least talented". However, they are certainly failing to maximize their advantages. They get preferential treatment from ICC (favorable schedules and whatnot); but, they are still failing to win ICC trophies.

 

[nextover666666]

Exactly this. India has underachieved in the last 10 years or so. Instead of accepting this some fans are getting triggered unnecessarily and throwing mud at Pakistan.

Exactly and its not an insult, India has shown, their good enough to get far, its just matter of crossing the finishing line or final hurdle as they say which becomes the issue, for me that is not due to lack of talent but maybe over confidence, lack of intent, in some cases some of decision made by India in some of the matches were not good, and other factors as well.

 

[nextover666666]

They are not "least talented". However, they are certainly failing to maximize their advantages. They get preferential treatment from ICC (favorable schedules and whatnot); but, they are still failing to win ICC trophies.

Exactly thank you

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Exactly this. India has underachieved in the last 10 years or so. Instead of accepting this some fans are getting triggered unnecessarily and throwing mud at Pakistan.

It's probably because you don't understand your own argument. You're basically saying that India has underachieved - implying that Indian team is more talented than its results show . OP is saying the opposite I.e. India is the least talented cricketing nation - then we have definitely overachiever. So which is it for you?

I'd like to know what your stance is

A. India is the least talented cricketing nation - in which case no matter what we do, even if we spend millions on sporting infrastructure and develop pathways, we are always going to be second best to those countries that do have cricketing talent.

OR

B. India has talent but its IPL/poor selections/lack of acces to quality coaching that is holding the Indian team back and they are underachieving .

Mind you, if you agree with option B, you clearly are saying the exact opposite of what the OP has said.

And you should have no problem with those who criticise OP using the examples of other nations like Pakistan

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

You are disagreeing with the pakistani posters by bringing Pakistani team's performance into discussion. This makes your arguement and you look weak here. I won't say India is the least talented cricket nation here but yeah India has underachieved in the past 10 years and you can thank IPL for that. So much money, power and good facilities but still fail to show up when it matters the most.

It's probably because you don't understand your own argument. You're basically saying that India has underachieved - implying that Indian team is more talented than its results show . OP is saying the opposite I.e. India is the least talented cricketing nation - then we have definitely overachiever. So which is it for you?

I'd like to know what your stance is

A. India is the least talented cricketing nation - in which case no matter what we do, even if we spend millions on sporting infrastructure and develop pathways, we are always going to be second best to those countries that do have cricketing talent.

OR

B. India has talent but its IPL/poor selections/lack of acces to quality coaching that is holding the Indian team back and they are underachieving .

Mind you, if you agree with option B, you clearly are saying the exact opposite of what the OP has said.

And you should have no problem with those who criticise OP using the examples of other nations like Pakistan

Read my above post. And yeah thread is about India, had this thread been created by an Indian, you and others would have still brought Pakistan into discussion in order to ease the pain. Other nations don't have the facilities, money, and power like India. It is a pretty simple argument that India has underachieved. I don't have to bring other nations into my argument to support my argument here because I am responding to OP here not the team he/she supports.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Read my above post. And yeah thread is about India, had this thread been created by an Indian, you and others would have still brought Pakistan into discussion in order to ease the pain. Other nations don't have the facilities, money, and power like India. It is a pretty simple argument that India has underachieved. I don't have to bring other nations into my argument to support my argument here because I am responding to OP here not the team he/she supports.

If you think India has not achieved anything despite all the money, power and facilities, then there is no question that India is the least talented cricketing nation. So you agree with the OP. Good. Glad we've settled that.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

They are not "least talented". However, they are certainly failing to maximize their advantages. They get preferential treatment from ICC (favorable schedules and whatnot); but, they are still failing to win ICC trophies.

I think most of the fans except some sensitive ones have said the same thing.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

If you think India has not achieved anything despite all the money, power and facilities, then there is no question that India is the least talented cricketing nation. So you agree with the OP. Good. Glad we've settled that.

Thread talks about India's performance in ICC tournaments since 2013. Please tell how many ICC trophies did India win since 2013? Waiting for your reply.

 

[hitthestump]

Repeat with me -

1992 Sydney
1996 Bangalore
1999 Manchester
2003 Centurion
2007 Durban
2007 Centurion
2011 Mohali
2012 Colombo
2013 Birmingham
2014 Dhaka
2015 Sydney
2016 Kolkata
2019 Manchester
2022 Sydney

Only anamoly 2021 Dubai

This is real generational humiliation i.e 14-1.

No amount of whinning can change that record.

The all time record is far more relevant of course, however it would take too much space to type out.

Anyway this thread is about whether India is a failed cricketing nation or not - we are not discussing India's losing track record against Pakistan.

 

[U$ofA]

So, the question of this thread is India the least talented of all cricket playing nations when their ICC tournament record is taken into consideration?

The best way to answer would be to list each country and their achievements, how far they have gone in each tournament and win/loss records in ICC tournaments and compare them.

I would venture a guess and say, when all things are compared, India would actually fall in the top 3-4 teams and not in the bottom.

 

[uppercut]

Thread is about whether India's is the "least talented cricketing nation" or not . And I have answered that question with suitable examples which ended up triggering you lot.

OP is not asking us the reasons for India not winning any tournaments since 2013. I suggest you to read the title and the initial post again.

BTW Using op's logic of "ICC trophy count in X yrs" ... we similarly arrive at Eng holding the record for being the least talented nation for the longest time.. considering that it took them 3+ decades to win any ICC trophy despite half of them being held in Eng.

Gotta laugh and move on. No point arguing with agenda driven posters

 

[uppercut]

The all time record is far more relevant of course, however it would take too much space to type out.

Soo relevant that matches in that category now never occur.... makes sense.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Thread talks about India's performance in ICC tournaments since 2013. Please tell how many ICC trophies did India win since 2013? Waiting for your reply.

Looks like you haven't read the thread title. It doesn't talk about India's performances in ICC tournaments per se. It asks whether the performances makes India the least talented cricketing nation?

Do you agree with that or not? (I'm asking you for a straight answer on this)

 

[cricketjoshila]

They are not "least talented". However, they are certainly failing to maximize their advantages. They get preferential treatment from ICC (favorable schedules and whatnot); but, they are still failing to win ICC trophies.

What preferential treatment?

 

[hitthestump]

Soo relevant that matches in that category now never occur.... makes sense.

Your reply makes no sense. It is not Pakistan's doing that India have no consistency in their approach. Playing Pakistan in an ICC tournament is perfectly ok, but bilaterals suddenly remind everyone that Pakistan is a terrorist nation. Ok then.

Cherry picking ICC tournament results is great and not entirely irrelevant, but the bigger picture is that Pakistan have held the wood over India across cricketing history.

It fits well into this discussion because even the so called peak India team remains trophyless partly in thanks to a humiliating loss versus a weak Pakistan team in 2017.

 

[uppercut]

Your reply makes no sense. It is not Pakistan's doing that India have no consistency in their approach. Playing Pakistan in an ICC tournament is perfectly ok, but bilaterals suddenly remind everyone that Pakistan is a terrorist nation. Ok then.

Cherry picking ICC tournament results is great and not entirely irrelevant, but the bigger picture is that Pakistan have held the wood over India across cricketing history.

It fits well into this discussion because even the so called peak India team remains trophyless partly in thanks to a humiliating loss versus a weak Pakistan team in 2017.

when you use the world relevant ... it automatically implies that the type of matches representing that record are still happening ... otherwise it means the matches are no longer of any consequence today .i.e irrelevant. Anyhow the overall record that you are soo proud about is nowhere close to being as spectacularly lopsided ( and over such a long period of time) as India's WC record spans. There is no comparison between the two.

Furthermore ... you are rarely going to see a thread reminisce about those bilateral wins whereas the 2021 WT20 win thread will be bumped every year. That should tell you all about what is relevant today.

Even furthermore ... if you think the overall record would have remained the same if the 2 had played in the last 10 yrs then you are plain lying to yourself.

 

[uppercut]

Your reply makes no sense. It is not Pakistan's doing that India have no consistency in their approach. Playing Pakistan in an ICC tournament is perfectly ok, but bilaterals suddenly remind everyone that Pakistan is a terrorist nation. Ok then.

Cherry picking ICC tournament results is great and not entirely irrelevant, but the bigger picture is that Pakistan have held the wood over India across cricketing history.

It fits well into this discussion because even the so called peak India team remains trophyless partly in thanks to a humiliating loss versus a weak Pakistan team in 2017.

when you use the world relevant ... it automatically implies that the type of matches representing that record are still happening ... otherwise it means the matches are no longer of any consequence today .i.e irrelevant. Anyhow the overall record that you are soo proud about is nowhere close to being as spectacularly lopsided ( and over such a long period of time) as India's WC record spans. There is no comparison between the two.

Furthermore ... you are rarely going to see a thread reminisce about those bilateral wins whereas the 2021 WT20 win thread will be bumped every year. That should tell you all about what is relevant today.

Even furthermore ... if you think the overall record would have remained the same if the 2 had played in the last 10 yrs then you are plain lying to yourself.

 

[U$ofA]

Your reply makes no sense. It is not Pakistan's doing that India have no consistency in their approach. Playing Pakistan in an ICC tournament is perfectly ok, but bilaterals suddenly remind everyone that Pakistan is a terrorist nation. Ok then.

Cherry picking ICC tournament results is great and not entirely irrelevant, but the bigger picture is that Pakistan have held the wood over India across cricketing history.

It fits well into this discussion because even the so called peak India team remains trophyless partly in thanks to a humiliating loss versus a weak Pakistan team in 2017.

Actually, I would say, India have been very consistent. Their policy has been no bilaterals and only play Pak. in ICC tournaments. I don't think this has changed at all. It has remained the same for a long time.

 

[jnaveen1980]

One big proof that there is no dearth of talent in India is under-19 world cup. They are dominating this for a while. They reached 4 finals in a row and won 2 of them. Way too many are coming through. But it is very hard to replace oldies regardless of how good they are. So measuring talent based on performances of "seniors" will give a false picture. IN 2019 world cup they went there with an unsettled middle order. Till last minute they were set to pick Rayudu. THen they dropped him. They made a complete mess of middle order.

 

[U$ofA]

Well, to answer the OP's question, based on recent events, the least talented cricketing nation title is firmly with West Indies. And there are no signs that they letting that go anytime soon.

 

[Bhaijaan]

A case can be made that ever since 2011 victory, India hasn’t really prioritised the World Cup as much as it did in the past.

The selection process, the preparations leading to the World Cup, the scrutiny hasn’t been there as much as it felt back in the day.

IPL, and test matches against Australia, England and probably South Africa seem to be what the BCCI focuses on the most.

The World Cup is about maintaining peak fitness, and form leading up to it and about filling important pieces in the line up that will help you win the tournament and we haven’t done that.

The 2000s were all about locking in on good finishers and forming a respectable bowling unit. We got it and we won the tournament.

 

[Bhaijaan]

A case can be made that ever since 2011 victory, India hasn’t really prioritised the World Cup as much as it did in the past.

The selection process, the preparations leading to the World Cup, the scrutiny hasn’t been there as much as it felt back in the day.

IPL, and test matches against Australia, England and probably South Africa seem to be what the BCCI focuses on the most.

The World Cup is about maintaining peak fitness, and form leading up to it and about filling important pieces in the line up that will help you win the tournament and we haven’t done that.

The 2000s were all about locking in on good finishers and forming a respectable bowling unit. We got it and we won the tournament.

We got knocked out in 1st round in 2007 but our preparations leading up to the World Cup, even if questionable were a lot more serious under Chappell. The training camps, trying out different batting orders and bowlers etc. World cups used to be a big deal.