Who says we don't have the same respect? Can you prove this with anything objective?
- Saeed Ajmal, Shahid Afridi, Younis Khan, Mohammad Amir, Mohammad Hafeez, Yasir Shah and now Babar Azam, Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan are/were all world class, box office players.
- We haven't won a World Cup since '92 but England, New Zealand and South Africa have never won one. Our performance hasn't been particularly bad in WCs either, losing a close semi-final in 2011.
- The ODI rankings are not particularly prestigious. It is far better to win ODI tournaments than be ranked #1 in this format. However, even then our players have been right up there in the ODI rankings with Ajmal enjoying a lengthy time at the top, Hasan and Hafeez getting to #1 as well and Babar, Junaid, Irfan and Afridi also being near the top at times.
- Is this 85 percent of lost series a real statistic? Even if it is, we have won major ODI series in India and South Africa since 2010. Not many teams can boast that.
- Everyone except South Africa gets thrashed there. However, we have a very good away record in places like England and New Zealand since 2010.
- It does not matter how brief it was. The fact remains that we were arguably the best test team during that time and were duly rewarded for our excellence. When was the last time England or New Zealand were ranked #1?
- Winning a series in the West Indies means that we have now won series in every test playing country except two. Nothing to scoff at.
- WT20 is still a trophy and that was just confirmation that for the longest time, we were the best T20 team in the world.
- Since 2010, we have never been in the news for the wrong reasons. Individual players chucking is not something that dishonors a nation.
- The fact remains that we did not lose a single series in the UAE throughout Misbah's captaincy. You talk about losing tests to the likes of South Africa and New Zealand as if they are minnows. We defied them and thrashed England and Australia. That is fantastic.
- That loss to Zimbabwe was a fluke. It happens.
Along with all this, we have also won the CT, Asia Cup, major test and ODI series, have had a great captain and now a great chief selector since 2010. So you see, your claims of this downward spiral are greatly exaggerated.
In fact, there is no downward spiral. We suddenly hit rock-bottom during 2007-2010 with one humiliation after another, infighting, no real leadership after Inzamam retired, poor performances soon following and it was capped off by the spot-fixing saga. However, since 2010, Pakistan cricket has only been upwards, Alhamdulillah, and I can see more glory (series wins in England and South Africa) and silverware (2019 WC) before this decade is over, InshAllah.
Younis Khan, Sarfaraz Ahmed and Yasir Shah would arguably make our all-time test XI. Perhaps even Azhar Ali.
Saeed Ajmal and Shahid Afridi/Mohammad Hafeez would arguably make our all-time ODI XI. Babar Azam might as well, depending on how he does in the next two years.
Our T20 XI would obviously be filled with players from the last ten years.
That's a pretty good representation of the 2010-decade and proves your argument false, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION].
In the last two decades, Pakistan have failed to produce players of the same standing as before, and that is why Pakistan's reputation has taken a hit.
Secondly, the discussion was based on Slim's argument that the last 15-20 years have been the best ever in our history, which is obviously nonsense.
Players like Shadab, Hasan etc. have nothing do with that discussion because they only debuted last year. In this millennium, we have only produced one player (Younis) who would walk into the all-time Pakistan XI of most people.
Ajmal would have had a great chance, but a lot of people prefer Saqlain to him and he has a tainted legacy because of chucking.
I brought up the World Cup because Slim's argument would have had some legs had we won a World Cup in the last 15-20 years. However, our World Cup win came way back in 1992.
I agree that winning tournaments > number one ODI rankings, but we have not exactly covered ourselves in glory in terms of winning tournaments. The Champions Trophy was our first ODI trophy since 1992, so we have not exactly set the world alight in ODI tournaments to negate our lowly rankings.
The 85% is an estimate. Since 2006, we have only won three ODI series against the major teams (excluding SL): NZ 2011, SA and India 2013.
Yes winning in SA and India was huge, but they do not make up for the fact that we have been battered by Australia, England, SA and NZ over and over again over the last 12 years.
Since 2006, We have lost four ODI series to South Africa, five ODI series to Australia, four ODI series to England and three ODI series to NZ. That is an awful, awful record and winning two series in SA and India in 2013 are not enough to make up for it.
That certainly does not look like the record of a team that has been enjoying its best ever period. If this is our best period, what is our worst?
Yes I agree that losing a Test in Zimbabwe was a fluke, but it was a very bad fluke and it is unlikely to happen to any other major team. You can lose an ODI or a T20 to a minnow, but a Test defeat to such team is a very rare occurrence.
Since the late 90's, we have been struggling. We have lost too many series at home to teams that we should be beating, and we haven't made a World Cup final since 1999. We have also failed to top the ODI rankings, and we have only been ranked one in Tests once.
The 2004-2007 period was a good one under Inzamam and Woolmer, but the next 9 years were horrible in ODIs and decent in Tests, even though our away record was pretty poor.
As I stated earlier, Younis is the only player of this millennium (i.e. players who made their debuts in this period) who makes the all-time Pakistan XI of most people. You can make a case for Yasir and Sarfraz, but the majority would prefer Saqlain/Qadir and Bari/Latif due to multiple reasons.
The notion that the last 15-20 years have been the best in our history is ridiculous, and this the first time anyone has put up an argument for it. You can have a poll on PP, and 99% of the people would agree that the last 15-20 years ranks as one of our worst ever periods.
The results have been inconsistent and poor, and the caliber of players have not been comparable to the ones of the previous eras. Yes we do have some young players now who could achieve a lot in the next decade or so, but these players are irrelevant in the context of this discussion.
first try to draw matches in Aus, let alone winning a test match. We have won or drawn more matches than all other Asian neighbors combined in last two d3cades.
