Why are Pakistanis upset about dominating Test matches at home recently?

[Rana]

2 out of the 3 teenagers are our premier pacers right now. And that attack would've looked different if Amir wasn't so selfish.

As for Younis Khan, he blackmailed his way back into the ODI setup. His media outbursts are on record.

Bringing back Nasir Jamshed who had been out of favour for a year or so? Wth was that?

Posting 230 scores in an era where other teams like SA, Australia, NZ and even West Indies wanted to bang 350 every game. Wth was that?

 

[Farabi]

2 out of the 3 teenagers are our premier pacers right now. And that attack would've looked different if Amir wasn't so selfish.

As for Younis Khan, he blackmailed his way back into the ODI setup. His media outbursts are on record.

Shaheen had been in tests before Misbah.

The way they were all inducted was ridiculous! They could've waited for another series and eased them in with more experienced pacers from domestic cricket. There were plenty of options in domestic cricket that should've been given roles in Aus test series, instead of bringing in multiple youngsters just because they had raw pace, especially in Australia. That tour to Australia was one of the most embarrassing.

As for Younis Khan, he was a better ODI player than Misbah and should’ve been played ahead of him. Don’t bring up their records, I don’t care.

 

[topspin]

I knew the Misbah meat riders would make this thread about him at some point in this thread.

 

[Farabi]

Another point you need to remember is his vision regarding players who were not good enough for him when he was captain but suddenly became the best players in his view for Pakistan as soon as he became coach.

The guy is an absolute filth piece work of art. He and his SNGPL regime+agenda can burn in the pits of hell for all I care!

I still can’t believe how he destroyed Younus ODI career when he became captain.
I get Younus was not the brightest white ball talent, but I’d have still preferred Younus in ODI team over Misbah.

 

[topspin]

As for Younis Khan, he was a better ODI player than Misbah and should’ve been played ahead of him. Don’t bring up their records, I don’t care.

A lot of these pro-Misbah ignoramuses don't realise YK was batting out of position in ODIs. He was a number 6 batsman. If you look at his records, he averages over 40 at a strike rate that exceeds 90 at number 6, which is pretty good for someone who debuted in 2000.

 

[Rana]

I still can’t believe how he destroyed Younus ODI career when he became captain.
I get Younus was not the brightest white ball talent, but I’d have still preferred Younus in ODI team over Misbah.

Shoaib Akhtar perfectly annihilated him after the 2015wc exit.

“Itna Buzdil Kaptaan”

Perfect summary of this guy man. He is the epitome of coward cricketer+captain. It’s what he transfers into those he believes in as well.

 

[topspin]

Amen to that.

This idiot has stated somewhere that if a guy is a good FC red ball batsman, he will naturally be a good T20 batsman.

His archaic mindset is just one of the reasons why Pakistan went backwards in from 2010 onwards.

 

[topspin]

I don’t understand the people of this nation, especially it’s cricket ‘experts and analysts’. You only have to go as far as listening to Tanvir Ahmed’s latest Vlog on his reaction to Pakistan comfortably defeating West Indies at home through spin traps, building on their win against England.

I mean, what do you want? What’s hurting you the most? Your team had completely lost its way in Test cricket at home. Now that you have found a formula that not only makes you compete, rather it makes you dominate…what’s the issue?

Test cricket is all about the challenge. The challenge Pakistan is issuing to the world is, “we will spin the crap out of you on our decks. We will battle hard with the bat against your spinners. If you can battle against ours, then bring it!”

Pakistan have set the gauntlet and is ready to build a fortress at home with this formula. Yet our own fans and analysts just can’t get past the fact that their personal favourite player has no presence in this new formed identity of Pakistan cricket.

As others have mentioned, Babar's runs matter more to some fans. He can't play spin to save his life. He should thank God that he never had to face the likes of Warne and Murali.

Younis Khan would have bossed it on these turners.

 

[daytrader]

Bringing back Nasir Jamshed who had been out of favour for a year or so? Wth was that?

Posting 230 scores in an era where other teams like SA, Australia, NZ and even West Indies wanted to bang 350 every game. Wth was that?

We made the Quarter Finals of 2015 WC. Did Nasir Jamshed play against Australia?

As for teams scoring 350 we also had big hitters. Umar Akmal, Shoaib Maqsood, Shahid Afridi. Did they carry their weight?

 

[daytrader]

A lot of these pro-Misbah ignoramuses don't realise YK was batting out of position in ODIs. He was a number 6 batsman. If you look at his records, he averages over 40 at a strike rate that exceeds 90 at number 6, which is pretty good for someone who debuted in 2000.

LOL with his ego? Do you think he would bat at 6?? I thought you knew all about YK being that he's your favourite player.

 

[Rana]

His archaic mindset is just one of the reasons why Pakistan went backwards in from 2010 onwards.

His followers will argue that it’s sensible thinking because Pakistan has to work with its resources, but the truth which they will not ever admit to is that this guy had a strong hold on the cricket system, and his influence naturally created an atmosphere of despair. The fact that this guy who was 37+ years old trying to justify his waning, rubbish reflexes with the bat in 2013-15 by saying “we have rubbish batters so I have to play at this low strike rate to steady the ship”

Mate if he was sincere to Pakistan cricket then he should have known he has no business in ODI once he went past 36-37. He’s set an extremely poor precedent. He should not be glorified at all at least in the white ball game!

 

[Farabi]

His archaic mindset is just one of the reasons why Pakistan went backwards in from 2010 onwards.

"We don’t have that much talent that we can produce a top player from each department." Misbah statement in Presser After losing T20 series to WI in 2015.

Then came Arthur and Saifi and took Pakistan to no1 T20I team in 2 years.

Pakistan's white-ball cricket was up and up and “no talent” comments from Misbah and Afridi were put to bed.

until … Misbah resurfaced on the scene again in 2020, especially T20Is, until Sarfaraz was tossed out.

Misbah, the "genius," took over a winning T20I team and somehow set it on a crash course to becoming garbage.

He pushed a natural opener like Fakhar Zaman to the middle order just to make room for Rizwan. Go figure. Total crime.

And then there's the opening duo of Rizwan and Babar, when the whole world was looking for some fireworks up top.

 

[Farabi]

A lot of these pro-Misbah ignoramuses don't realise YK was batting out of position in ODIs. He was a number 6 batsman. If you look at his records, he averages over 40 at a strike rate that exceeds 90 at number 6, which is pretty good for someone who debuted in 2000.

Rahul Dravid once sarcastically quipped at the irony of it all “Pakistan must have a lot talent to keep a batter like Younus out.”

 

[daytrader]

Man all you haters are so OTT. Thread was about test cricket and rather than acknowledging Misbah's credentials in that, you guys decided to derail to other formats. Aag lag gyi just by hearing Misbah's name

 

[topspin]

LOL with his ego? Do you think he would bat at 6?? I thought you knew all about YK being that he's your favourite player.

You're quick to latch on to his flaws but when it comes to your favourite trio - Misbah, Babar and Rizwan, you won't say a word when asked to address their shortcomings.

I've acknowledged Younis Khan had his flaws on multiple occassions, so I'm not going to repeat myself, particularly to someone who isn't a sincere fan. I say this because you care more about the above players than the greater good of Pakistan cricket.

 

[daytrader]

But your mate and you brought in Misbah to somehow reminisce of his good times in UAE. That has nothing to do with the question of why Pakistanis are upset at winning at home in the last 3 Tests on ragging pitches.

If I remember clearly, Pakistanis were very happy to deck England 3-0 in the UAE and 3-0 to Australia as well.

But the last 3 wins have caused serious hurt to some who are also hardcore Misbah worshippers. It’s not the same thing.

Sure sure. You guys derail all threads with your vitriol about Misbah, Babar and Rizwan. Hum credit de dn toh you have a problem

 

[Rana]

LOL with his ego? Do you think he would bat at 6?? I thought you knew all about YK being that he's your favourite player.

Younis Khan for me was a more than decent number 3 in ODIs. Who did Misbah have planned to bat at 3 for him considering Younis campaigned his way into the side?

What was Misbah’s master plan to tackle teams who were casually pumping 5-6 runs per over and racking up 330+ scores every game?

 

[daytrader]

You're quick to latch on to his flaws but when it comes to your favourite trio - Misbah, Babar and Rizwan, you won't say a word when asked to address their shortcomings.

I've acknowledged Younis Khan had his flaws on multiple occassions, so I'm not going to repeat myself, particularly to someone who isn't a sincere fan. This is because you care more about the above players than the greater good of Pakistan cricket.

If you practiced what you preached, I would have no problems with your criticisms. Thing is you only show up to spread hate against the 3 you mentioned

 

[Rana]

Sure sure. You guys derail all threads with your vitriol about Misbah, Babar and Rizwan. Hum credit de dn toh you have a problem

You can credit him all you want. Ab Uski besti sun ne ka Hosla bhi rakho

 

[topspin]

Younis Khan for me was a more than decent number 3 in ODIs. Who did Misbah have planned to bat at 3 for him considering Younis campaigned his way into the side?

What was Misbah’s master plan to tackle teams who were casually pumping 5-6 runs per over and racking up 330+ scores every game?

Misbah couldn't score an ODI hundred to save his life. 162 x ODIs but failed on each occassion. What a bottler.

Younis Khan on the other hand at number 3 has produced some memorable knocks in ODIs. He didn't go hiding at number 5 for the rest of his career.

 

[daytrader]

You can credit him all you want. Ab Uski besti sun ne ka Hosla bhi rakho

It's all good. Nothing new in that, you guys have been hating for a long time. At least you're now acknowledging some of those strategies are working oh because it's Aaqib not Misbah. You can hate the player but not the game.

 

[daytrader]

Younis Khan for me was a more than decent number 3 in ODIs. Who did Misbah have planned to bat at 3 for him considering Younis campaigned his way into the side?

What was Misbah’s master plan to tackle teams who were casually pumping 5-6 runs per over and racking up 330+ scores every game?

How many teams scored 330 against us? Agenda bhi aik hadd tak hota hai

 

[Farabi]

His followers will argue that it’s sensible thinking because Pakistan has to work with its resources, but the truth which they will not ever admit to is that this guy had a strong hold on the cricket system, and his influence naturally created an atmosphere of despair. The fact that this guy who was 37+ years old trying to justify his waning, rubbish reflexes with the bat in 2013-15 by saying “we have rubbish batters so I have to play at this low strike rate to steady the ship”

Mate if he was sincere to Pakistan cricket then he should have known he has no business in ODI once he went past 36-37. He’s set an extremely poor precedent. He should not be glorified at all at least in the white ball game!

This 'work with resources' excuse is just a way to cover up a lack of vision. It becomes a mental barrier that prevents taking risks and leads to underutilizing the talent that’s already there. Pakistan is blessed with talent.

Instead of backing fresh white-ball talent, Misbah would rather fall back on tried-and-tested players like Jamshed. Under his leadership, Pakistan's white-ball teams were struggling at No. 8 or No. 9 for a reason.

When Mickey Arthur and Sarfaraz took over, it was clear that talent was never the issue as the white ball returns improved very quickly by injecting right men for the right roles. We saw the likes of Fakhar, Shaheen, Sharjeel, Babar, and several other cricketers emerge during this time.

The same thing is happening under AJ now — talent isn’t the problem.

Taking Fakhar Zaman out of the opening spot? That’s on you. Not opening with Saim Ayub? That’s on you too. Not utilizing Sharjeel Khan at the top? That’s your loss. Don’t blame the resources.

 

[topspin]

If you practiced what you preached, I would have no problems with your criticisms. Thing is you only show up to spread hate against the 3 you mentioned

I've given you numerous opportunities (at least a dozen) over the last 18 months to address the shortcomings of your favourite trio, but not once have you had the guts to admit it.

 

[Rana]

Misbah couldn't score an ODI hundred to save his life. 162 x ODIs but failed on each occassion. What a bottler.

Younis Khan on the other hand at number 3 has produced some memorable knocks in ODIs. He didn't go hiding at number 5 for the rest of his career.

He was a very good number 3 and I remember he was playing beautifully at this position around 2009-10. Fluently at a run a ball.

Misbah loved to see his team fail up top so that he has the excuse to eat up 50 balls with his non existent reflexes to score 5 runs.

This is exactly what Rizwan is doing now in ODIs.

 

[daytrader]

I've given you numerous opportunities (at least a dozen) over the last 18 months to address the shortcomings of your favourite trio, but not once have you had the guts to admit it.

I don't criticize for the sake of it. There's bigger problems in Pak cricket than hitting sixes in PP.

 

[Rana]

don't criticize for the sake of it.

Because you are extremely oblivious to the issues which in fact have been created by Misbah ul Haq in the first place. You have to defend his nonsense. That’s what you and Major, plus others have been doing.

 

[topspin]

He was a very good number 3 and I remember he was playing beautifully at this position around 2009-10. Fluently at a run a ball.

Misbah buzzdil loved to see his team fail up top so that he has the excuse to eat up 50 balls with his non existent reflexes to score 5 runs.

This is exactly what Rizwan is doing now in ODIs.

In the 2000s, he was quality. Him and Jaywardena, who was a quality player, have very similar stats in ODIs.

Misbah with his approach, should've been batting at 3 but he knew what he was doing. A good example of this was when he selected substandard batsmen in the likes of Imran Farhat and Umar Amin to bat above him in the CT. As a captain, who plays defensively, you don't hide at number 5 behind trash players unless you're one of those.

 

[topspin]

I don't criticize for the sake of it. There's bigger problems in Pak cricket than hitting sixes in PP.

I'll give you the most recent example of your insincerity. When asked about Rizwan's innings in the India WT20 game last year, this is what you had to say:

Much like the WC game against India, we were in a winning position here too. So a very effective innings.

This is why it's time to be honest and just admit you're a blind follower, just like Major is with anything remotely related to Misbah.

Stop pretending that you care about the best interests of Pakistan cricket.

 

[daytrader]

Because you are extremely oblivious to the issues which in fact have been created by Misbah ul Haq in the first place. You have to defend his nonsense. That’s what you and Major, plus others have been doing.

And you're being oblivious to the actual problems that Pakistan cricket faced at that time: spot fixing, not being able to play at home, players getting called out for chucking. He didn't create those problems. He was a 'leader of men' and guided us through our most tumultuous period

 

[Rana]

In the 2000s, he was quality. Him and Jaywardena, who was a quality player, have very similar stats in ODIs.

Misbah with his approach, should've been batting at 3 but he knew what he was doing. A good example of this was when he selected substandard batsmen in the likes of Imran Farhat and Umar Amin to bat above him in the CT. As a captain, who plays defensively, you don't hide at number 5 behind trash players unless you're one of those.

The guy was never hungry enough to challenge or adapt bro.

He knew that he had no chance in the Pakistan side as long as Inzimam, Younis and Yousuf are in that middle order 3-5. Pakistan always needed reliable openers and this guy never once did what he could to break in at a time when Pakistan kept on shifting its openers because no one was sticking.

Salman Butt, Imran Farhat, Yasir Hameed, Shahid Afridi, Imran Nazir, Mohammad Hafeez, Kamran Akmal, not sure but maybe even Shoaib Malik. God knows how many players were rotated in those positions but this bloke Misbah being a decent batter clearly didn’t try to knock on the door by changing his own position in the domestics to put his hand up and throw his name into contention. Who was going to keep him out? Woolmer? Lawson? The coaches of Pakistan at the time have always been fair to those who definitely showed potential.

 

[Rana]

And you're being oblivious to the actual problems that Pakistan cricket faced at that time: spot fixing, not being able to play at home, players getting called out for chucking. He didn't create those problems. He was a 'leader of men' and guided us through our most tumultuous period

Oh right. You worked out that because I am so fixated on the fitna created by Misbah, I have completely forgotten about those issues of the past which are not relevant at the moment?

 

[topspin]

The guy was never hungry enough to challenge or adapt bro.

He knew that he had no chance in the Pakistan side as long as Inzimam, Younis and Yousuf are in that middle order 3-5. Pakistan always needed reliable openers and this guy never once did what he could to break in at a time when Pakistan kept on shifting its openers because no one was sticking.

Salman Butt, Imran Farhat, Yasir Hameed, Shahid Afridi, Imran Nazir, Mohammad Hafeez, Kamran Akmal, not sure but maybe even Shoaib Malik. God knows how many players were rotated in those positions but this bloke Misbah being a decent batter clearly didn’t try to knock on the door by changing his own position in the domestics to put his hand up and throw his name into contention. Who was going to keep him out? Woolmer? Lawson? The coaches of Pakistan at the time have always been fair to those who definitely showed potential.

Just goes to show how weak he was mentally. You've just lost a test match in Brisbane, so let's cut cake for Shafiq's bottling.

Choked against India in the 2007 WT20 final, when he was facing a Joginder Sharma, who shortly retired to become a policeman.

The less said about Mohali, the better.

Misbah's fans have the same small team mentality. A prime example of this being "40/0 > 66/1 in 6 overs" and then you wonder why this individual had academic struggles. It's because most of them don't have much between the ears.

 

[daytrader]

I'll give you the most recent example of your insincerity. When asked about Rizwan's innings in the India WT20 game last year, this is what you had to say:

Choked against India in the 2007 WT20 final, when he was facing a Joginder Sharma, who shortly retired to become a policeman.

The less said about Mohali, the better.

Your entire argument was that it's the top order's responsibility to finish matches. You criticized Rizwan for this yet you also criticize Misbah for not being able to finish.

So which is it?

Is it the top order that should win matches or a #6 batter?

 

[Farabi]

Just goes to show how weak he was mentally. You've just lost a test match in Brisbane, so let's cut cake for Shafiq's bottling.

Choked against India in the 2007 WT20 final, when he was facing a Joginder Sharma, who shortly retired to become a policeman.

The less said about Mohali, the better.

Misbah's fans have the same small team mentality. A prime example of this being "40/0 > 66/1 in 6 overs" and then you wonder why this individual had academic struggles. It's because most of them don't have much between the ears.

Yup “The desire for 40/0 > 66/1 in 6 overs” is variation of what @daytrader just said “Pakistan has bigger problems than hitting 6s in PP”.

Misbah has become the poster boy of a sizable contingent that harbors this perpetual negativity and claims about lack of talent and capability in Pakistan... because of course Afghanis, Lankans, and literally every team can attack in Powerplay but Pakistan cannot, because, surprise surprise, we don’t have talent.

What quickly follows are negative moves like moving your only white ball batter Fakhar out of position to get stability. Batters who have explosive potential are written off quickly whether it’s Sharjeel or Mohd Haris. Sharjeel Khan was on the bench when Rizwan experiment started.

 

[daytrader]

What quickly follows are negative moves like moving your only white ball batter Fakhar out of position to get stability. Batters who have explosive potential are written off quickly whether it’s Sharjeel or Mohd Haris. Sharjeel Khan was on the bench when Rizwan experiment started.

Wrong. Sharjeel opened in the last match before Misbah retired. He was always trying different combinations. RizBar opening was solidified in Ramiz Raja's tenure after the T20WC win against India.

 

[Farabi]

Wrong. Sharjeel opened in the last match before Misbah retired. He was always trying different combinations. RizBar opening was solidified in Ramiz Raja's tenure after the T20WC win against India.

There was nothing to try. There wasn’t even any debate in my head that Sharjeel and Fakhar are natural T20I openers who were playing the brand of cricket required. They should have been given license to skill in T20Is and a long rope.

But of course the low risk approach was taken and stability was preferred.

 

[moghul]

There is a difference between the people wo are happy with Multan test " win" and ones like me who think this was disgrace of a test " win" is probably due to the different expectations from the team. People like me who have been following cricket for long time and have seen the golden era of Pakistan cricket , are still not willing to accept Pakistan is a low level, minnow cricket playing nation and a solitary win after a streak of losses , that win too against the bottom ranked team's B team is NOT something to celebrate whatever way it is achieved .

I would like to watch or follow a test to be played in a " normal" way on a " normal" wicket, where fast bowler also given a chance to show their talent, and batters also show their skill against different type of bowler. Test would last at least 4 days if not longer. Also there has to be something for spectators in it , it should not be played in a hollow , empty stadium .

 

[Farabi]

There is a difference between the people wo are happy with Multan test " win" and ones like me who think this was disgrace of a test " win" is probably due to the different expectations from the team. People like me who have been following cricket for long time and have seen the golden era of Pakistan cricket , are still not willing to accept Pakistan is a low level, minnow cricket playing nation and a solitary win after a streak of losses , that win too against the bottom ranked team's B team is NOT something to celebrate whatever way it is achieved .

I would like to watch or follow a test to be played in a " normal" way on a " normal" wicket, where fast bowler also given a chance to show their talent, and batters also show their skill against different type of bowler. Test would last at least 4 days if not longer. Also there has to be something for spectators in it , it should not be played in a hollow , empty stadium .

The difference here is vision. You’re seeing this as the final solution and reacting to it, while some of us see it as the start of a journey with hope for better things ahead.

Mark my words—if Pakistan sticks to this approach, they’ll eventually find a pacer who can reverse swing. Fast bowlers will come into play 100%, just wait.

You’ll also see our pacers doing better abroad because they won’t be breaking down on flat highways at home.

This will also bring confidence back to the team. No one builds a winning side without first dominating at home—you need something to feel good about before you can win anywhere else.

And if our batters get better at handling spin in Tests, it’ll only help them improve in ODIs too.

 

[PAKFAN12]

As long as there is a result and 20 wickets are falling. That is good enough.

The game is equal for both sides.

No, this isn't good enough. I want a pitch where batsman, spinners and pacers all are in the game .

 

[Farabi]

No, this isn't good enough. I want a pitch where batsman, spinners and pacers all are in the game .

So Saud Shakeel is not showing batsmanship? Is batting against quality spin not batsmanship?

 

[W63L35]

There is a difference between the people wo are happy with Multan test " win" and ones like me who think this was disgrace of a test " win" is probably due to the different expectations from the team. People like me who have been following cricket for long time and have seen the golden era of Pakistan cricket , are still not willing to accept Pakistan is a low level, minnow cricket playing nation and a solitary win after a streak of losses , that win too against the bottom ranked team's B team is NOT something to celebrate whatever way it is achieved .

I would like to watch or follow a test to be played in a " normal" way on a " normal" wicket, where fast bowler also given a chance to show their talent, and batters also show their skill against different type of bowler. Test would last at least 4 days if not longer. Also there has to be something for spectators in it , it should not be played in a hollow , empty stadium .

Making a spinning wicket and winning does not make Pakistan a weak team. We are not winning outside Pakistan for many other reasons.

Our neighbors (despite being a supposedly top team) are using the exact same strategy for years.

Since 1/1/2000, India has won 72 tests at home.
In 25 of those 72 tests wins, pacers have taken only 4 or less wickets.



In only these 7 of those 72 wins Pacers took more than 10 wickets.. only twice more than 12.




By the way, Anil Kumble was part of 28 wins at home. In NONE of those 28 wins, pacers took more than 10 wickets.

I am yet to meet an Indian fan this unhappy about winning.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Instead of turning this thread into Misbah thread, please stay on topic now

 

[BouncerGuy]

I am not upset. I cannot say that for everyone else but I am not Upset. Why would I be upset? Pakistan is winning and there is nothing better than your nation winning something.

 

[W63L35]

I would like to watch or follow a test to be played in a " normal" way on a " normal" wicket, where fast bowler also given a chance to show their talent, and batters also show their skill against different type of bowler. Test would last at least 4 days if not longer. Also there has to be something for spectators in it , it should not be played in a hollow , empty stadium .

If you think, Multan test ended quickly then let me show you a few more tests that produced less runs than Multan test vs West Indies.

This is a list of 30 tests with least match aggregate since 1/1/2016 (last 10 years). All these tests produced results.
See where Multan stands on the list. Lord's cricket ground appears 5 times on this list. Also see .... besides Multan test, there in no other test played in Pakistan is on the list. I have highlighted the tests played in SENA.

I think, you should be more upset at ECB and other cricket boards than PCB.

 

[W63L35]

If you think, Multan test ended quickly then let me show you a few more tests that produced less runs than Multan test vs West Indies.

This is a list of 30 tests with least match aggregate since 1/1/2016 (last 10 years). All these tests produced results.
See where Multan stands on the list. Lord's cricket ground appears 5 times on this list. Also see .... besides Multan test, there in no other test played in Pakistan is on the list. I have highlighted the tests played in SENA.

I think, you should be more upset at ECB and other cricket boards than PCB.

Row# 26 was from 2013. It is removed in the list below.

 

[Buffet]

@DeadlyVenom @emranabbas @gazza619

Very misleading! You’ve conveniently left out the earlier data that included spinner contributions.

The pacers mentioned have 300 Test wickets, but Indian spinners have over 1,200 wickets. Clearly, Indian pacers have only been picking up scraps—Bumrah, for instance, has taken just 45 Test wickets at home in the last 8 years. It’s obvious that India relies heavily on the Ashwin-Jadeja duo, not their pacers.

Pakistani pacers might have a slightly bigger role than what Indian pacers do, but it’s still early days. Like India, I expect Pakistan’s fast bowlers to play more of a supporting role at home.

It was not to show that India does not reply on spin heavily. It was to show that game does not start and end with spinners.

Relying on spin is different than making pitches where 20 wickets will be taken by spin pretty much all the times. How many games do you know where pacers are bowling 1 over in entire test match?

 

[Farabi]

It was not to show that India does not reply on spin heavily. It was to show that game does not start and end with spinners.

Relying on spin is different than making pitches where 20 wickets will be taken by spin pretty much all the times. How many games do you know where pacers are bowling 1 over in entire test match?

You’re comparing a sample over 15 years vs 3 games. There’s a lot of evolution still to happen.

 

[mominsaigol]

@daytrader

I have a question?

@topspin favourite pakistani player is YK.

@Rana Idk who's his favourite player. Im assuming pointing and from PK inzi? I could be wrong but whoever it is,

YK is Pakistan's best test player of all time period. You can argue zaheer but I haven't seen zaheer or miandad and I doubt most people would put miandad > YK in test, in odi sure but not in tests.

YK is the no 1 reason why we reached no 1 rank, plain and simple. Pakistan would have been bundled out for 100-150 7 out of 10 times if not for YK.

Then Inzi and YK are literally the reason why Pakistan to this day has more international wins against India head to head, although thanks to Misbah ul haq, Babar and Rizwan the gap is closing and India will probably overtake us soon.

^^ What's wrong with them liking such players and disliking Misbah and Rizwan?

Even if you give credit to misbah for captaincy and to rizwan as well( Tyese 2 are conmen but whatever)

Misbah and Rizwan are bang average medicore players. Any moron who actually make a misbah vs YK test comparison thread indirectly and A Misbah vs Inzi thread directly and argued misbah as the better player has completly lost his marbels

 

[emranabbas]

There is a difference between the people wo are happy with Multan test " win" and ones like me who think this was disgrace of a test " win" is probably due to the different expectations from the team. People like me who have been following cricket for long time and have seen the golden era of Pakistan cricket , are still not willing to accept Pakistan is a low level, minnow cricket playing nation and a solitary win after a streak of losses , that win too against the bottom ranked team's B team is NOT something to celebrate whatever way it is achieved .

I would like to watch or follow a test to be played in a " normal" way on a " normal" wicket, where fast bowler also given a chance to show their talent, and batters also show their skill against different type of bowler. Test would last at least 4 days if not longer. Also there has to be something for spectators in it , it should not be played in a hollow , empty stadium .

Give us your 4 pacers who can bowl 140+ with accuracy and can bowl for long overs consistently

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You are assuming and packaging a lot things together. I LOVE Misbah the test batter and captain.

Does Misbah deserve credit for implementing a successful formula in UAE? Yes.

Was Misbah a good test captain and batter? Yes.

Did Misbah as the coach deploy right long-term vision and strategy upon return of cricket in Pakistan? No.

Is Misbah a great visionary? No.

This is a fair assessment. He had some big flaws as captain away from home like bowling Yasir into the ground in Aus.

His coaching/selection stint was poor because of the selections you mention in other posts and he weirdly randomly brought dud players like Ahmad and Umar back.

He is not a visionary but could get the job done at home.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

So you have pace bowlers who can win you matches and not get tonked?

Name me 4 bowlers who can clock 140+ and bowl long overs with accuracy and pace

We don't need 140 kph on all tracks.

And we don't need 4 bowlers on all tracks.

Our home strategy should ideally be two spinners and two pacers and we must move away from industrial pitch rigging and uncles turning the ball from ball 1.

 

[AAli98]

Nothing wrong with pitches both team just can’t bat.. Lankans would score 250+ all day long in these conditions.

 

[daytrader]

^^ What's wrong with them liking such players and disliking Misbah and Rizwan?

Is this your main question?

If so, nothing wrong with it. Everyone has their favourites and has the right to express that. But why spread hate? Whether you like certain players or not, they deserve respect.

 

[emranabbas]

We don't need 140 kph on all tracks.

And we don't need 4 bowlers on all tracks.

Our home strategy should ideally be two spinners and two pacers and we must move away from industrial pitch rigging and uncles turning the ball from ball 1.

OK give us 2 bowlers

 

[mominsaigol]

Is this your main question?

If so, nothing wrong with it. Everyone has their favourites and has the right to express that. But why spread hate? Whether you like certain players or not, they deserve respect.

Whether you like certain players or not, they deserve respect.

Coming from the people who

A) Talk non stop about Younis Khan and try to undermine him simply because he told Misbah to take his pads off in the final and outright said he was a bothcer. And hence since then people have either pretended as if YK didn't exist when it comes to misbah's accomplishments or they talk about oathgate non stop.

B) Made a final respect thread about David Warner where rather then praising him just talk about how much of a jerk he was simply because he murked misbah's 11 more then any other player in history.

C) Spread non stop upon non stop hate for Amir and Imad and have gone out of their way to undermine their achievements.

The list goes on and on.

When anyone talks about YK, you talk about oathgate. When people bring up how amir's spell won us 2009 wc and 2017 ct, rather then praising these moments you instantly jump onto fixing, When someone brings up Warner obliterating Pakistan 7 ways to Sunday, you bring up sandpaper?

When talking about Inzimam ul Haq, you bring up how rubbish he was in 2006-2007 which was the backend of his career and you use that to somehow justify Misbah > him.

Then let's talk about how you outright claimed babar is Pakistan's best batsmen of all time.

^^ I made sure to even ask you if it was statically and which format and you outright said best statically, in all formats and best genuinely as well.

Isn't that insulting towards actual pk greats like yousaf, inzi, younis, miandad, Anwar?

In odi the gap between Anwar and babar is sky high and so is the gap between yousaf, inzi and babar.

In test it isn't a competiton. Babar isn't even azhar ali level in tests.

 

[daytrader]

A) Talk non stop about Younis Khan and try to undermine him simply because he told Misbah to take his pads off in the final and outright said he was a bothcer. And hence since then people have either pretended as if YK didn't exist when it comes to misbah's accomplishments or they talk about oathgate non stop.

It's always been the high-five gang that brings n Younis Khan to theconversation to undermine Misbah, just as you have done now.

The pads off incident you;re referring to wasn't actually pads off, it was pads on. Exact quote:

“When we were about to win, Younis came and asked me to pad up because he knew the defeat from the last tournament (in 2007) was still on my mind and he wanted me to finish the game and win the title for Pakistan this time around.” - Sir Misbah-ul-Haq

The haters have always tried pinning Misbah vs Younis Khan, when in fact both had each others backs. Younis supported him in 2009 WC and Misbah backed him for 2015 WC. Similarly we didn't just achieve #1 ranking due to Younis Khan the batter (and no he did not perform 7/10 times as you claimed), Misbah the batter and CAPTAIN played a huge role in it as well.

B) Made a final respect thread about David Warner where rather then praising him just talk about how much of a jerk he was simply because he murked misbah's 11 more then any other player in history.

Misbah 11? Warner has murdered all Pakistani attacks. He recently got a fairytale retirement in his last series against us. What does Misbah have to do with this? Don't know why you guys make up fairytales to downplay everything about the great man.

C) Spread non stop upon non stop hate for Amir and Imad and have gone out of their way to undermine their achievements.

What achievements? Amir sure, but don't forget he was greatly supported by Misbah on his comeback but turned out to be selfish again. What has Imad achieved?

When anyone talks about YK, you talk about oathgate. When people bring up how amir's spell won us 2009 wc and 2017 ct, rather then praising these moments you instantly jump onto fixing, When someone brings up Warner obliterating Pakistan 7 ways to Sunday, you bring up sandpaper?

When talking about Inzimam ul Haq, you bring up how rubbish he was in 2006-2007 which was the backend of his career and you use that to somehow justify Misbah > him.

All the posters you're referring to have praised those achievements. Problem is you guys can't seem to praise anything about Misbah, Rizwan and Babar.

Then let's talk about how you outright claimed babar is Pakistan's best batsmen of all time.

^^ I made sure to even ask you if it was statically and which format and you outright said best statically, in all formats and best genuinely as well.

He's an active cricketer. Let's wait till he retires to compare him with previous legends. IMO he will be the best we had.

Isn't that insulting towards actual pk greats like yousaf, inzi, younis, miandad, Anwar?

Many of them are rooting for Babar so why can't their fans. Here's a quote from Mohammad Yousaf: "Babar Azam is a world class player and his consistent performance in all three formats from the last three years is the solid proof of his flight."

I can find you many more from the others but you have access to the same resources. Just helps to research before pitting legends with current players.

 

[shaz619]

The only strategy is that if we want to actually take test cricket seriously we must invest heavily in FC cricket and produce players who can plays across conditions

Just a few years ago we had a good test series against South Africa. In one match pacers dominated in the next spin.

Why not have grounds that embrace a wide variety of conditions that each has its own identity.

Multan can be a turner, Pindi more for the seamers, Karachi dead and Lahore whatever.

This should be the long term plan. Instead it seems like we want to artificially rig every match condition and chuck two uncles on with the new ball.

I just cant back that long term. It is an extreme overreaction to the phattas.

I don’t mind the suggestions but also feel this is the best template we have and can tweak it as needed.

India make similar pitches and have not failed to develop players for all conditions; in the subcontinent, leadership has a lot more to do with it, even more in Pakistan when you have such a turbulent environment.

So I don’t think we are crippling talent and growth, just need to make sure players are managed well and given the right opportunities.

 

[mominsaigol]

It's always been the high-five gang that brings n Younis Khan to theconversation to undermine Misbah, just as you have done now.

The pads off incident you;re referring to wasn't actually pads off, it was pads on. Exact quote:

“When we were about to win, Younis came and asked me to pad up because he knew the defeat from the last tournament (in 2007) was still on my mind and he wanted me to finish the game and win the title for Pakistan this time around.” - Sir Misbah-ul-Haq

The haters have always tried pinning Misbah vs Younis Khan, when in fact both had each others backs. Younis supported him in 2009 WC and Misbah backed him for 2015 WC. Similarly we didn't just achieve #1 ranking due to Younis Khan the batter (and no he did not perform 7/10 times as you claimed), Misbah the batter and CAPTAIN played a huge role in it as well.



Misbah 11? Warner has murdered all Pakistani attacks. He recently got a fairytale retirement in his last series against us. What does Misbah have to do with this? Don't know why you guys make up fairytales to downplay everything about the great man.



What achievements? Amir sure, but don't forget he was greatly supported by Misbah on his comeback but turned out to be selfish again. What has Imad achieved?



All the posters you're referring to have praised those achievements. Problem is you guys can't seem to praise anything about Misbah, Rizwan and Babar.



He's an active cricketer. Let's wait till he retires to compare him with previous legends. IMO he will be the best we had.



Many of them are rooting for Babar so why can't their fans. Here's a quote from Mohammad Yousaf: "Babar Azam is a world class player and his consistent performance in all three formats from the last three years is the solid proof of his flight."

I can find you many more from the others but you have access to the same resources. Just helps to research before pitting legends with current players.

It's always been the high-five gang that brings n Younis Khan to theconversation to undermine Misbah, just as you have done now.

The pads off incident you;re referring to wasn't actually pads off, it was pads on. Exact quote:

“When we were about to win, Younis came and asked me to pad up because he knew the defeat from the last tournament (in 2007) was still on my mind and he wanted me to finish the game and win the title for Pakistan this time around.” - Sir Misbah-ul-Haq

The haters have always tried pinning Misbah vs Younis Khan, when in fact both had each others backs. Younis supported him in 2009 WC and Misbah backed him for 2015 WC. Similarly we didn't just achieve #1 ranking due to Younis Khan the batter (and no he did not perform 7/10 times as you claimed), Misbah the batter and CAPTAIN played a huge role in it as well.

Incorrect, Younis Khan outright admitted Misbah was behind oathgate but simply moved on saying past is past. Misbah has freqently shoved people aside to get his way and achieve his own vision as he did with fakhar and tried to do so with sarfi during wc 2015 by bringing back jamshed out of the blue. This is what was said down below.

After being announced as the batting coach, Younis attended a video conference and was asked a question about his past issues with head coach Misbah-ul-Haq. Former captain Mohammad Yousuf had revealed that in 2009 a group of players revolted against Younis’s captaincy and claimed Misbah was apparently the mastermind. Younis responded by a simple “past is past” statement.

Yousaf has outright claimed misbah was the mastermind and Younis said past is past. He disnt deny it at all just said he wanted to move on.

And lol? Changing the story? First you said Younis blackmailed his way into 2015 cup, now you're saying he didn't and misbah backed him?

Misbah 11? Warner has murdered all Pakistani attacks. He recently got a fairytale retirement in his last series against us. What does Misbah have to do with this? Don't know why you guys make up fairytales to downplay everything about the great man.

Im saying you guys insulted warner on that thread due to him bashing Misbah's team.

All the posters you're referring to have praised those achievements. Problem is you guys can't seem to praise anything about Misbah, Rizwan and Babar.

No they didnt, i have read that thread multiple times, you and Major put Misbah > Inzimam as an odi batsmen. Later on you chanhed the story towards icc events but you guys outright put misbah > Inzi in an atg Pakistani side . You have never praised these people. Infact you guys called inzi a flat track bully even though he has 80+ half centuries in Cricket's2nd most difficult era since the 70's.

He's an active cricketer. Let's wait till he retires to compare him with previous legends. IMO he will be the best we had.

Chanhing the story again? Now its will be? What happened to outright claiming he is the best all time in every format inevety capacity? (You disnt say the words every capacity, I'm adding them in cause I'm tired of saying statistically and genuinely)

Many of them are rooting for Babar so why can't their fans.

Rooting is one thing, lying and claiming hes the best is another. Atm in test he isnt even azhar ali level and with the way hes going, he might even become an asad shafiq or bavuma level test batsmen considering the fact that he's in danger of having his avg fall below 40 by 2026.

In odi, he's good, it's the only format he's good in, but he's far far behind many others including past Pakistani batsmen. He's very lucky he got to stat pad against the worst wi attack in history + C side Nz, C side 2019 aus, Nepal etc etc. And all of those being on ramiz raja flat track phattas where even imam scored and stat padded against.

Remove all those moments, he only has one century against full strength NZ( 2019) eng(has 2 against them) Sa (during the series) and Aus( 2017)

So overall 5 centuries against full strength only lol.

 

[topspin]

Yup “The desire for 40/0 > 66/1 in 6 overs” is variation of what @daytrader just said “Pakistan has bigger problems than hitting 6s in PP”.

He would send out Babar during a super over because "of his ability to hit 6 x fours in an over"

Misbah has become the poster boy of a sizable contingent that harbors this perpetual negativity and claims about lack of talent and capability in Pakistan... because of course Afghanis, Lankans, and literally every team can attack in Powerplay but Pakistan cannot, because, surprise surprise, we don’t have talent.

An excellent. When you watch the likes of Sri Lanka, what you find is even though they don't have the best team, they still play a modern brand of cricket and that's why they humiliated Pakistan in that Asia Cup final in 2022.

People will say Babar and Rizwan were the biggest culprits. As players, yes they are, but who came up with this opening combo?

What quickly follows are negative moves like moving your only white ball batter Fakhar out of position to get stability. Batters who have explosive potential are written off quickly whether it’s Sharjeel or Mohd Haris. Sharjeel Khan was on the bench when Rizwan experiment started.

There's absolutely no harm in experimenting in meaningless T20I bilateral contests. Pakistan is the only side that plays their strongest team and it's to ensure they can market their fake superstars, Babar and Rizwan, when they will use these games to play for their milestones rather than making a real effort in exploring and improving their hitting skills and learning how to play innovative shots.