Why are Pakistanis upset about dominating Test matches at home recently?

[Kianig89]

This is a short term fix, as UgandaCranes pointed out any decent team for example NZ comes wins the toss and Santner Ajaz & Bracewell will do it on Pakistan.

Nevertheless to suggest its some sort of dominance is laughable specifically for someone who have most part of these games , One victory against Eng they dropped some crucial catches otherwise this theory would have been busted in infancy.

Let's seehow the second game goes

 

[Rana]

This is a short term fix, as UgandaCranes pointed out any decent team for example NZ comes wins the toss and Santner Ajaz & Bracewell will do it on Pakistan.

Nevertheless to suggest its some sort of dominance is laughable specifically for someone who have most part of these games , One victory against Eng they dropped some crucial catches otherwise this theory would have been busted in infancy.

Let's seehow the second game goes

Yes bro same feeling

 

[osamabluez]

The point is that our pacers have struggled, especially on flat decks and rank turners. Opposition pacers, like Starc and Cummins, have outperformed our pacers and even helped Australia win a series in Pakistan. Other bowlers such as Carse, Atkinson, Robinson, Anderson, Nahid Rana, and Taskin have also bowled well and won games for their respective teams.

Nasim Shah has taken 20 wickets in 6 matches at an average of 38, which shows that our pacers are not consistently effective in these conditions.

So, it’s clear that we can’t rely on our pacers alone. It would be better to focus on playing with spinners on spin-friendly wickets.

At least for the next Test Championship cycle, we should try this strategy.

 

[Aami]

I don’t understand the people of this nation, especially it’s cricket ‘experts and analysts’. You only have to go as far as listening to Tanvir Ahmed’s latest Vlog on his reaction to Pakistan comfortably defeating West Indies at home through spin traps, building on their win against England.

I mean, what do you want? What’s hurting you the most? Your team had completely lost its way in Test cricket at home. Now that you have found a formula that not only makes you compete, rather it makes you dominate…what’s the issue?

Test cricket is all about the challenge. The challenge Pakistan is issuing to the world is, “we will spin the crap out of you on our decks. We will battle hard with the bat against your spinners. If you can battle against ours, then bring it!”

Pakistan have set the gauntlet and is ready to build a fortress at home with this formula. Yet our own fans and analysts just can’t get past the fact that their personal favourite player has no presence in this new formed identity of Pakistan cricket.

Spot on.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Among the SENA countries Only South Africa tampers the pitch so much for each opposition. Australia gives generally good pitch. Against India it was an exception. They went to great lengths to change basic nature of pitches (including SCG, MCG). English pitches are 50/50. NZ pitch is a bit of lottery. You can also have your way if you win the toss.

At the end of the day, if you are playing abroad, you should expect the other team to tamper with the pitches as much as possible. That's what home advantage is all about. Any home team is well within their right to produce any type of surface they want as long as it isn't dangerous and a risk to the batters safety. If the pitch is truly awful then ICC will sanction the venue accordingly. I would rather see a match like this than a high scoring 5 day draw.

 

[Aami]

No issues with it; it will also mean Pak batters will get their act together and become better players of spin ... why dont the line up against our trio and learn thing or two.

These types of pitches will also encourage our 'slow horses' like Afridi, Naseem and Co to re-invent their skills set ...

 

[moghul]

The point is that our pacers have struggled, especially on flat decks and rank turners. Opposition pacers, like Starc and Cummins, have outperformed our pacers and even helped Australia win a series in Pakistan. Other bowlers such as Carse, Atkinson, Robinson, Anderson, Nahid Rana, and Taskin have also bowled well and won games for their respective teams.

Nasim Shah has taken 20 wickets in 6 matches at an average of 38, which shows that our pacers are not consistently effective in these conditions.

So, it’s clear that we can’t rely on our pacers alone. It would be better to focus on playing with spinners on spin-friendly wickets.

At least for the next Test Championship cycle, we should try this strategy.

This kind of adhoc thinking killing not just Pakistan cricket but whole country is regressing fast. Everyone is looking for quick fix to save his job, either the captain, PCB chairman or at national level. Without quality fast bowlers we cannot win overseas matches , in every format, not just tests. And how can you produce quality pacers when they will not given chances . Why would a young cricketer in Pakistan think about picking fast bowling as his trade, no incentive and no role model to look for.

Our "premier" fastmen like Shaheen, Nasim , Rauf and others, give a damn to Pakistan cricket. They're happy to play tamasha/pajama cricket ( T20 ) and would find different excuses to avoid tests and FC cricket which demand hard work . Let them play league cricket and don't pick them in any format and let the new pacers in domestic cricket play for Pakistan. The might not perform well in the beginning but who knows , we will find some committed quality fast bowler.

 

[Rana]

Dr. Nauman Niaz (and Rashid Latif) full on seething at Pakistan making spinning tracks to win this match. Those who know, know.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

It's a humilating experience.

 

[sweep_shot]

Whatever results in victories should be done.

Current strategy is working. 3 back to back Test match wins.

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

I am not upset.

I don't care about Babar. I'm not in that category.

I just don't think this spin strategy where the ball is ripping from day one is a. Good cricket or b. Good for Pakistan itself.

I also don't like how the preparation of a pitch has so much external interference in terms of infrastructure and also personnel involvement.

I am happy we are winning and we needed this short term boost for sure.

But it's important we keep our feet on the ground two. This could kill our cricket and make us Bangladesh if we take it to the extreme. Secondly we are also one lost toss away from this ending in pain for the current players.

I know the PCB very well. They will focus on making our domestic pitches like this too now. Soon every Tom Dick and Abdul will become Murali in domestic and we will stop producing players capable of playing any format properly.

Pakistan won the 3rd test against Eng batting 2nd

As long as the team is winning there shouldn't be much issue ... The batsmen should get better playing in such conditions as well

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

I thought Pakistan fans are celebrating too much after winning the test match against mighty westindies at home.

We will do what we want the hell you getting your chaddies in a bind for ???

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pakistan won the 3rd test against Eng batting 2nd

As long as the team is winning there shouldn't be much issue ... The batsmen should get better playing in such conditions as well

That was a better pitch than this one( by not much).

This one was not fit for international cricket.

I was ok with a turner to build confidence after humiliations on phattas...but we have taken it to extreme.

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

This is not cricket, where a 40 YO and another older spinner bowling all day on a joke of a wicket . NO one bother to watch it in stadium and on TV also . This is quickest way to kill , what ever life was left in test cricket in Pakistan . The same bowlers are not good enough to be picker for any over series tests . Pakistan cannot even draw a test in overseas test. No Pacemen is included or required in the test 11 , no wonder once a factory of world class fast bowler , we are producing only some low level trundlers who need a long rest after playing and losing one or two test in a year.

Our FC cricket is a joke too, the standard is of club cricket and hardy any cricketer interested in playing in it.

Y'all talk as if we have a winning culture

Can you guys stop being so cathartic for once and just enjoy the fact that the team is at least finally winning at home ?? Good grief

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

That was a better pitch than this one( by not much).

This one was not fit for international cricket.

I was ok with a turner to build confidence after humiliations on phattas...but we have taken it to extreme.

It doesn't matter ... Pakistan would still win batting 2nd because we have shown the ability to find a way on these pitches whereas Eng/WI haven't

How is that our fault?

I don't see SENA fans crying because they make pitches suitable to their pace attack

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It doesn't matter ... Pakistan would still win batting 2nd because we have shown the ability to find a way on these pitches whereas Eng/WI haven't

How is that our fault?

I don't see SENA fans crying because they make pitches suitable to their pace attack

Show me a SENA pitch where both teams have been bundled out in two days

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

This pitch was a bit too extreme. 55-60% of this & I am all in. Most teams in the world have at least one good spinner especially the teams that are supposed to visit Pak; Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, New Zealand, Windies & South Africa all have one elite left arm spinner who can wreck havoc & this strategy may backfire spectacularly. England, & Australia don't have to tour Pak in the next cycle & they are the only two major teams that don't have a good left arm spinner.

We need a fast bowler who can reverse swing the ball & also maybe a seam bowling all-rounder but not sure if we have a good all-rounder available in the system. I don't care for batters & their inflated batting averages but I do care about winning at home consistently and this is not a safe strategy. We literally gave 7 wickets to Jomal for just 30+ runs, now imagine Santner, Patel, Maharaj, Jayasuria, on this pitch. We don't have a Younis Khan anymore so it'll be hard for us to out bat other teams, & there in lies the whole problem with such over tuned pitches.

Despite the batting struggles Saud/Rizwan/Shan found a way to do enough and that's all we need

Worry about losing when it actually happens with this strategy even then there wouldn't be a need to panic if Pak loses 1 game ... Right now outside of Abbas/Khurram we lack genuine test class seamers so it makes sense to go all in on spin which is delivering results

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

Show me a SENA pitch where both teams have been bundled out in two days

India vs SA literally last yr

In fact SA is the toughest place to tour as it consistently has the lowest scores of any SENA team hosting

Pak vs SA 1st test and 2nd finished inside of 3 days too

 

[DeadlyVenom]

India vs SA literally last yr

In fact SA is the toughest place to tour as it consistently has the lowest scores of any SENA team

India V SA pitch was given a demerit point and rated unsatisfactory by the ICC.

 

[AZulfi]

This test finished in less than 2.5 days. Just 40 odd overs were possible due to fog on day 1.

Home advantage/ Spinning tracks are fine (All countries do that. Australia and RSA prepare pacy and bouncy tracks) but there needs to be a healthy balance to ensure better entertainment for everyone. India also prepared rank turners at home against Australia (esp. the last series which was a low scoring one)

I would much rather prefer sporting tracks which help seam movement on days 1-2 and then spin day 3 onwards

Or make Multan and Pindi pitches spinning and seaming tracks respectively

However, you cannot have a situation whereby your main pacers don’t or hardly get to play any home tests (we do not play enough tests as it is) due to the nature of the tracks and then struggle badly (due to lack of practice) when they visit SENA nations

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

Don't care if the batsmen's averages drop. This is the new template. It's high time we started dominating at home again. Last 2-3 years have been painful to experience as a fan.

Precisely, just need 2-3 batsmen to do enough to win games just like Pak has done last 3 games at home

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

India V SA pitch was given a demerit point and rated unsatisfactory by the ICC.

oh bhai I don't give a flying **** about ICC and their demerit bs

I care about WINNING end of

 

[RidiculousMan]

Just listen to this guy. Listen to the nonsense he is spewing!

He speaks like that ever since he came on TV. Back in Geo Super days as well

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

Yes. Amir sohail made this comment in jest. Next match 9 batsmen sajid and noman should play. He has a point. THey can just use 9 btasmen to score 300 and use these two. Apparently with a lot of domestic experience they are up for long spells

I disagree slightly, just keep the spin trio and play an extra batsman over Khurram next match ... Salman can be the 4th bowler if needed

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

This.

South Africa already know what awaits them. Their batters should know that it will be a scrap. They have 10 months to make sure their batters can tackle the spin

SA getting packed up for a payback in the fall can't wait

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

babri and kg should be dropped in the next match and replaced by any domestic batters who can play spin wel prefrably azan and mohammad suleiman

KG just scored a damn 100 on test debut under pressure with the team down 1-0 to Eng on a turner ... WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE

 

[cricfan4lyfe]

This is a short term fix, as UgandaCranes pointed out any decent team for example NZ comes wins the toss and Santner Ajaz & Bracewell will do it on Pakistan.

Nevertheless to suggest its some sort of dominance is laughable specifically for someone who have most part of these games , One victory against Eng they dropped some crucial catches otherwise this theory would have been busted in infancy.

Let's seehow the second game goes

We'll deal with NZ when the time comes ... they're getting packed up too don't worry

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Despite the batting struggles Saud/Rizwan/Shan found a way to do enough and that's all we need

Worry about losing when it actually happens with this strategy even then there wouldn't be a need to panic if Pak loses 1 game ... Right now outside of Abbas/Khurram we lack genuine test class seamers so it makes sense to go all in on spin which is delivering results

I am not worried about losing, I'm saying we have bowlers who can out bowl other people rather than batters who can out bat better teams.

 

[Rana]

I would much rather prefer sporting tracks which help seam movement on days 1-2 and then spin day 3 onwards

First of all, the curators in Pakistan don’t know how to create those tracks.

Secondly, even if they do manage to create a track that is like this, Pakistan are not good enough skills wise or psychologically to win a Test match against any regular Test playing nation at home or away.

They are prone to have a breakdown either with the bat in one session/ or an hour…. Or they have phases where they are completely out batted by the top order or a lower order partnership even when they have had a good session with the ball.

You have to accept that your current team or set of players are incapable to compete if the stakes are 50:50, 60:40, even 70:30 in your favour.

Pakistan need this to be 90:10, where the opposition already know they are in a squid game competition from ball 1.

 

[Rana]

I am not worried about losing

That’s fine, but it’s not your job that is on the line when Pakistan loses. You have to understand the toxic nature of the fans+journos who make life impossible for 99.9% of Pakistan cricketers, coaches and admin staff when Pakistan is losing.

The only two players who continue to evade any criticism and liability is Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is disposable besides those two. The rest have to find a way to survive!

 

[moghul]

Y'all talk as if we have a winning culture

Can you guys stop being so cathartic for once and just enjoy the fact that the team is at least finally winning at home ?? Good grief

This " win" is the last nail in coffin of test cricket in Pakistan . We don't even have the best spinners in the world. Next WTC cycle is starting after this . With this loser's mentality Pakistan will not win any overseas test and I'm sure visiting team will bring better spinners than we have and there will not be any escape for us. If Pakistan has to avoid finishing at the bottom in next WTC cycle , we have to try to win some tests overseas and we need to develop and encourage some decent fast bowlers . Vey soon these two, Sajid and Nauman will be found out .

 

[DeadlyVenom]

[.

First of all, the curators in Pakistan don’t know how to create those tracks.

Secondly, even if they do manage to create a track that is like this, Pakistan are not good enough skills wise or psychologically to win a Test match against any regular Test playing nation at home or away.

They are prone to have a breakdown either with the bat in one session/ or an hour…. Or they have phases where they are completely out batted by the top order or a lower order partnership even when they have had a good session with the ball.

You have to accept that your current team or set of players are incapable to compete if the stakes are 50:50, 60:40, even 70:30 in your favour.

Pakistan need this to be 90:10, where the opposition already know they are in a squid game competition from ball 1.

Bro you have literally said that Pakistan don't know how to make test pitches and don't know how to bat or bowl.

If they don't have capability in any facet it's better to give up this pretence.

I would rather we stop playing tests with some integrity left than associate our proud history with grounds like mirpur in Bangladesh.

 

[Rana]

With this loser's mentality Pakistan will not win any overseas test

Mere bhai, the guys will have more reason to compete or even draw Tests away if their home wins put them into a position where they can play a WTC final.


Our big away challenge will be the England series next summer.

Pakistan can actually maintain a 70%+ record at home and against Bangladesh away.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

That’s fine, but it’s not your job that is on the line when Pakistan loses. You have to understand the toxic nature of the fans+journos who make life impossible for 99.9% of Pakistan cricketers, coaches and admin staff when Pakistan is losing.

The only two players who continue to evade any criticism and liability is Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is disposable besides those two. The rest have to find a way to survive!

Job is still on the line win or lose.

As soon as we won the test some posters wanted Shan sacked.

So win or loss doesn't make difference to those who want to promote their own favourites.

 

[Rana]

If they don't have capability in any facet it's better to give up this pretence.

The same response I gave to Ugandacranes. I understand it’s better to just face up to your failures if you know you just don’t have it in you. It’s really easy for us to say this being fans, but we we are not the one’s who’s careers and mental health is on the line when Pakistan loses considering the extremely toxic nature of Pakistan fans and their journalists who are ready to pounce on failures.

I’ve literally shared an example of one analyst who I am allowed to share here because he is a cricketer. There are PLENTY of non cricketers who have been running rampage against Pakistan for winning this Test. Just imagine how ruthless they are when Pakistan loses! This isn’t England or New Zealand cricket who just forget things over a pint or two. This is life and death like situation for some

 

[AZulfi]

First of all, the curators in Pakistan don’t know how to create those tracks.

Secondly, even if they do manage to create a track that is like this, Pakistan are not good enough skills wise or psychologically to win a Test match against any regular Test playing nation at home or away.

They are prone to have a breakdown either with the bat in one session/ or an hour…. Or they have phases where they are completely out batted by the top order or a lower order partnership even when they have had a good session with the ball.

You have to accept that your current team or set of players are incapable to compete if the stakes are 50:50, 60:40, even 70:30 in your favour.

Pakistan need this to be 90:10, where the opposition already know they are in a squid game competition from ball 1.

I agree with your points to some extent. However, this can only be a temporary solution. Definitely not good for home pacers. Shaheen (when available. More effective in white ball cricket), Khurram and Abbas (relies on seaming tracks), even Nasim Shah are not penetrative enough in tests. Not in the same league as Imran or the two Ws who could run thru a batting order on their own.

Our current batting also lacks quality esp in pressure situations. Quite unpredictable as always. On a flat pitch (2nd test vs RSA) got bundled out for 194 in the first innings. Then made close to 500 runs in the second. Even in this test Pak batsmen batted as poorly as the Windies batsman imo collapsing twice from good positions. But for that 142-run partnership between Saud and Rizwan in the first innings we would have been in serious trouble despite the brilliant efforts of the spinning trio. Babar is a steady player but not a match winner like Miandad or Inzamam. The two Ys were also better test batsmen than Babar. However, I do not understand why Rizwan gets so much hate by some people. The guy is a decent keeper and made runs in RSA as well, infact is batting better than our main batsmen. He has been quite consistent with the bat in all 3 formats. I do not think Kamran Ghulam has got either the patience or discipline to succeed at test level in the long-term. Often gets out playing unnecessary shots or runs other people out! Maybe white ball is a better format for him as he proved in RSA (esp his knock in the second ODI)

 

[Hawkeye]

Pakistan is the new Test cricket fortress - breaching it will be a dream of every touring team.

But we will spin them to agony and defeat.

Every. Single. Time.

For far too long foreign teams thought the doctored Indian dustbowls where fake spinners like Ashwin and Jadeja ran rout is the true fort to conquer.

We just hadn’t unleashed our spinners.

It’s time.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The same response I gave to Ugandacranes. I understand it’s better to just face up to your failures if you know you just don’t have it in you. It’s really easy for us to say this being fans, but we we are not the one’s who’s careers and mental health is on the line when Pakistan loses considering the extremely toxic nature of Pakistan fans and their journalists who are ready to pounce on failures.

I’ve literally shared an example of one analyst who I am allowed to share here because he is a cricketer. There are PLENTY of non cricketers who have been running rampage against Pakistan for winning this Test. Just imagine how ruthless they are when Pakistan loses! This isn’t England or New Zealand cricket who just forget things over a pint or two. This is life and death like situation for some

You should stop criticising Babar and Rizwan then. They operate within this same paradigm you have outlined.

PCB has the ability to block out this toxicity the same way English FA blocked out the toxicity around Southgate.

Identify the right man. Back him. Fight for him when is unfairly criticised. Set out a vision and give him the tools to try and implement it. Set a few attack dogs to tear into the analysts that you think hold so much power.

Instead PCB is usually the first to capitulate.

 

[Farabi]

I thought Pakistan fans are celebrating too much after winning the test match against mighty westindies at home.

No matter what happens, your comment showing Pakistani cricket down is a constant haha

 

[Farabi]

The only strategy is that if we want to actually take test cricket seriously we must invest heavily in FC cricket and produce players who can plays across conditions

Just a few years ago we had a good test series against South Africa. In one match pacers dominated in the next spin.

Why not have grounds that embrace a wide variety of conditions that each has its own identity.

Multan can be a turner, Pindi more for the seamers, Karachi dead and Lahore whatever.

This should be the long term plan. Instead it seems like we want to artificially rig every match condition and chuck two uncles on with the new ball.

I just cant back that long term. It is an extreme overreaction to the phattas.

I keep asking you a question, which you keep ignoring.

NZ does not have spin mambas at home. They still defeated India in India 3-0 on spinning mambas. If NZ can do it, why can’t Pak continue to have a horses for courses approach?

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Seriously ! We are some sadistic people . Its like we don't like winning anymore. We enjoy wallowing in sorrow more .

 

[ElRaja]

people need a reality check, pak were only a fast bowling nation because we had three or four pacers who were quick enough, and wily enough (take that how u want) to get the ball to reverse swing. pak have only ever produced flat decks which spun on the last day or two, u cant change the soil or the weather, arid conditions and low clay content make slow flat low tracks.

the only variance i remember was Rawalpindi used to seam a bit back in the day before rambo got to fixing it. this is the only model that will work in an era where fast bowlers dont wanna risk their careers playing tests on flat decks for an organisation that cant even manage their injuries.

 

[Farabi]

Not sure when India had Green house, Patio heater, Giant fans to make pitches lol Never. Not sure when India completely relied on spinners to take wickets 3 tests in a row. Never. Not even one test was like that. Indian seamers always had something. Stop comparing this with Indian pitches.

This is irrelevant. India has been preparing the same pitches for decades. The tactics used are different. Who cares? Whether you use covers, mowing techniques, soil, or greenhouse effect. Ultimately, every team is changing nature of pitch to suit themselves

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

That’s fine, but it’s not your job that is on the line when Pakistan loses. You have to understand the toxic nature of the fans+journos who make life impossible for 99.9% of Pakistan cricketers, coaches and admin staff when Pakistan is losing.

The only two players who continue to evade any criticism and liability is Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is disposable besides those two. The rest have to find a way to survive!

Neither care for fans nor journalists, I just want my team to be a professional team that smartly fights no matter what are the circumstances of the match. And the first step of professionalism is to know the strengths and weaknesses of your own team as well as the opposition. I am in a way with you on the toxicity of babar fandom but I'm saying that we have two gems as spinners right now who will do well even if conditions are a bit less favorable for them. This pitch was an anomaly, & it lessens the difference in class between Sajid and Jomal which negates our strength.

 

[Rana]

You should stop criticising Babar and Rizwan then. They operate within this same paradigm you have outlined.

Two very different situations and outcomes. You think I didn’t come across this thought before making this thread?

I have maintained throughout this discussion that I do not think the same levels of accountability and criticism apply towards Babar and Rizwan as compared the the rest of Pakistan cricketers and coaching staff. Those two are clearly treated differently. They are protected at a different level. They are rewarded for the failures of others. It’s a completely different context when it’s those two in comparison to the rest of Pakistan.

Secondly, if you are alluding to my constant criticism of the RizBar opening pair in T20s…and if you are saying that this pair was a successful pair that compromised the rest of the batting order but delivered results towards wins….

Well you cannot compare it to a formula that is only recent in Test cricket (3 home Test matches) in comparison to a formula that has been applied in over 70 T20i matches spanning 5 years. Throughout the 5 years, I was adamantly on the case of those two and consistently arguing that this formula will totally destroy Pakistan cricket and set it back many years. I was arguing this from 2020/21 and I can confidently say that I am proven right today and you can all see I was right.

The other clear distinction between these two formulas is that we all know the 3 spinner and no seamer formula is just a ploy that we can deploy in our Home Tests where the curation of the track is in our control. We know that we cannot go with this tactic abroad, and we know that our seamers must be ready to go, whilst our batters need to be ready to battle. We know this very well.

As for the RizBar formula, what we (not including me but most of Pakistan under euphoria) mistakenly did wrong was to use this formula everywhere. Against all opposition, on all venues, in all conditions. It was a repetition of insanity again and again especially after the 2022 World Cup. It is a tried and tested failure backed politically or through players and stakeholders holding Pakistan cricket hostage which I have continuously called out and wanted destroyed!

You cannot compare a proven failed formula over a span of many years to a formula that has been a Godsend considering the 3 years of consistent failure at home in Test cricket.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I keep asking you a question, which you keep ignoring.

NZ does not have spin mambas at home. They still defeated India in India 3-0 on spinning mambas. If NZ can do it, why can’t Pak continue to have a horses for courses approach?

Your question is framed in a way that suggests that all tracks have to either be spin mambas or green mambas, that's why I have ignored it.

 

[Rana]

Neither care for fans nor journalists, I just want my team to be a professional team that smartly fights no matter what are the circumstances of the match. And the first step of professionalism is to know the strengths and weaknesses of your own team as well as the opposition. I am in a way with you on the toxicity of babar fandom but I'm saying that we have two gems as spinners right now who will do well even if conditions are a bit less favorable for them. This pitch was an anomaly, & it lessens the difference in class between Sajid and Jomal which negates our strength.

My brother, don’t you think that’s how Shan Masood thinks and wants from his team? You’re talking like any sensible cricketer/captain from England, Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. Add India or West Indies in that too.

He wanted to run his side in this way, he was even given a good overseas coach in the form of Gillespie to work with and implement his plans. There was a growth of cricketing intellectualism with the appointment of Gillespie and a captain with a brain like Shan.


How long did it last? What was the level of tolerance towards it? Where did Gillespie go? What was he reduced to in this tenure?

You have guys like Salman Butt running their mouths and influencing the ignorant Pakistan masses against coaches like Kirsten and Gillespie. Everything you say makes sense and can be implemented in those countries I listed above, where you are given freedom to expand on your cricketing philosophy and apply it.

This is Pakistan cricket, and you don’t know the vile nature of the beast it is.

 

[emranabbas]

Everyone’s discussing pace bowlers, so to settle the debate, name four Pakistani pacers who can consistently bowl at 140+ km/h. This way, we can prepare pitches to suit them.

 

[Farabi]

Your question is framed in a way that suggests that all tracks have to either be spin mambas or green mambas, that's why I have ignored it.

They don’t have to be, and certainly not in the domestic FC. Your point is well taken on having diverse pitches in domestic.

My question is how was NZ able to beat India in India 3-0 when they don’t serve spin mambas in their home test matches?

 

[Farabi]

Everyone’s discussing pace bowlers, so to settle the debate, name four Pakistani pacers who can consistently bowl at 140+ km/h. This way, we can prepare pitches to suit them.

Until PCB can enhance its medical panel, biomechanics labs and injury management, I don’t want Pakistani premier bowlers anywhere near red ball cricket.

I back our fast bowlers ignoring red ball. Why should they risk their careers for a board that won’t manage or pay for their injuries. AND served flat pitches.

I was having this same discussion with @RedwoodOriginal the other day.

This is a board that:

1. Wasn’t willing to pay for Shaheen’s rehab (until his uncle’s tweet).
2. Refused (and still refuses) to rehab Ishanullah. And then unwillingly did a botched surgery to save money.
3. Ignored Wasim Junior who had a minor back injury that should have taken 2-4 months and he is lost in the system since 1.5 years.
4. Naseem and Amir Jamal aren’t the same anymore after rehab.

Hasnain is smart. He said he will pay for it himself and do it in UK. He seems to have rehabbed the best, even though he’s the least talented of the above.

 

[Farabi]

Until PCB can enhance its medical panel, biomechanics labs and injury management, I don’t want Pakistani premier bowlers anywhere near red ball cricket.

I back our fast bowlers ignoring red ball. Why should they risk their careers for a board that won’t manage or pay for their injuries. AND served flat pitches.

I was having this same discussion with @RedwoodOriginal the other day.

This is a board that:

1. Wasn’t willing to pay for Shaheen’s rehab (until his uncle’s tweet).
2. Refused (and still refuses) to rehab Ishanullah. And then unwillingly did a botched surgery to save money.
3. Ignored Wasim Junior who had a minor back injury that should have taken 2-4 months and he is lost in the system since 1.5 years.
4. Naseem and Amir Jamal aren’t the same anymore after rehab.

Hasnain is smart. He said he will pay for it himself and do it in UK. He seems to have rehabbed the best, even though he’s the least talented of the above.

I am MORE THAN HAPPY with this spin based strategy. This will prolong the careers of our premier pacers in white ball, and they may be more available away tests anyway.

 

[Devadwal]

Imran Nazir said: Sajid Khan is doing exceptionally well in home Test series. I think Pakistan should include Sajid Khan in Champions Trophy Squad as he's X factor & should make spin pitches then no one can stop Pakistan from winning Champions Trophy 2025..!!

Totally agree with imran Nazir.

 

[PAKFAN12]

I’ve seen dry and turning pitches, but these ones in Pakistan are just extreme. No one looks comfortable batting here -it’s all spinners, all the time.

 

[moghul]

Mere bhai, the guys will have more reason to compete or even draw Tests away if their home wins put them into a position where they can play a WTC final.


Our big away challenge will be the England series next summer.

Pakistan can actually maintain a 70%+ record at home and against Bangladesh away.

New Zealand and SA have better spinner than Pakistan and our batsmen are poor against quality spin also. Goof luck with making rank turner against the likes of Shamshi, Maharaj and Santner ( remember what he did to India in India recently ). These spinnes have performed all over the world , unlike ours " frog of the well ".

 

[emranabbas]

Until PCB can enhance its medical panel, biomechanics labs and injury management, I don’t want Pakistani premier bowlers anywhere near red ball cricket.

I back our fast bowlers ignoring red ball. Why should they risk their careers for a board that won’t manage or pay for their injuries. AND served flat pitches.

I was having this same discussion with @RedwoodOriginal the other day.

This is a board that:

1. Wasn’t willing to pay for Shaheen’s rehab (until his uncle’s tweet).
2. Refused (and still refuses) to rehab Ishanullah. And then unwillingly did a botched surgery to save money.
3. Ignored Wasim Junior who had a minor back injury that should have taken 2-4 months and he is lost in the system since 1.5 years.
4. Naseem and Amir Jamal aren’t the same anymore after rehab.

Hasnain is smart. He said he will pay for it himself and do it in UK. He seems to have rehabbed the best, even though he’s the least talented of the above.

really this question is for those who are against spin pitches

Looking at our fast bowlers, Musa Khan and Niaz Khan were the top wicket-takers in the Quaid-e-Azam Trophy, while spinners were at the bottom of the table. So, it's clear that domestic pitches are favoring pace. But the real question is, can any of these bowlers consistently bowl at 140+ km/h and push beyond that when needed? Are they ready to compete with the likes of Rabada, Starc, Cummins, and others at at home in international level? if they can then we can consider going down that route

 

[kingusama92]

Some fans are acting like this is a restaurant and they are ordering a dish off the menu.

The goal is to win. There are no style points for how you win.

Bizarre stuff from people like Tanvir Ahmed and company. "We want to win but no not like that..." is pure silliness when the same people were trashing the team for losing the previous 3-5 years.

 

[shamaan]

Pakistan should be able to Beat West Indies in any conditions.

 

[Farabi]

New Zealand and SA have better spinner than Pakistan and our batsmen are poor against quality spin also. Goof luck with making rank turner against the likes of Shamshi, Maharaj and Santner ( remember what he did to India in India recently ). These spinnes have performed all over the world , unlike ours " frog of the well ".

Maharaj and Shamsi are better than Nauman and Sajid. NZ and SA are better players of spin. Man, this nation cannot be saved!

 

[Farabi]

really this question is for those who are against spin pitches

Looking at our fast bowlers, Musa Khan and Niaz Khan were the top wicket-takers in the Quaid-e-Azam Trophy, while spinners were at the bottom of the table. So, it's clear that domestic pitches are favoring pace. But the real question is, can any of these bowlers consistently bowl at 140+ km/h and push beyond that when needed? Are they ready to compete with the likes of Rabada, Starc, Cummins, and others at at home in international level? if they can then we can consider going down that route

Even Rabada and Cummins bowl in 135-140 range which is enough pace if you have skills. Very rare to have fast bowlers consistently bowl 140+.
Our domestic fast bowlers are usually 125-135 but they also lack skills.

 

[emranabbas]

Maharaj and Shamsi are better than Nauman and Sajid. NZ and SA are better players of spin. Man, this nation cannot be saved!

Not really last time nauman outdone mahraj Pakistan won both matches because they were spin friendly. Nauman had a fiver in both games

 

[hassan918]

Maharaj and Shamsi are better than Nauman and Sajid. NZ and SA are better players of spin. Man, this nation cannot be saved!

Maharaj is good but Shamsi is no way better than Nauman or Sajid.

 

[Farabi]

Not really last time nauman outdone mahraj Pakistan won both matches because they were spin friendly. Nauman had a fiver in both games

I wrote that sarcastically. I meant to question the poster saying Maharaj and Shamsi are better than Sajid and Nauman.

 

[Farabi]

Maharaj is good but Shamsi is no way better than Nauman or Sajid.

That’s what I meant too. It was a sarcastic post.

 

[emranabbas]

I wrote that sarcastically. I meant to question the poster saying Maharaj and Shamsi are better than Sajid and Nauman.

I get you

 

[Nasty Naz]

After a miserable run in Tests you would think people would be happy the team is finally winning again but here we are...

India/Bangladesh/SL all have spinning pitches. Pakistan were the outlier with their horrific pitches that they were trying to turn into pacer friendly pitches but turned them completely flat instead.

Could Pakistan look to prepare pitches that are not so extreme? Sure, but that is going to take some time & experiments. This is where, if PCB had any brains would be using domestic FC to experiment and nail down how to create pitches and figure what works for each venue. Figure out which venue is the best for creating pacer friendly wickets and the best for spinning wicket (Multan seems to be the choice for that) and have a domestic setup where your batters play half the season in pacer friendly pitches and remaining half in spinning conditions. This way, based on the opposition, you can setup matches at venues that suit Pakistan.

Regardless, at minimum you have a formula at least to find ways to win Pakistan. It's not the prettiest way to win but so what, it's a win and at least it's not boring draws or losses on flat roads. Whatever strategy it is, Pakistan needs to turn itself into a fortress at home. That is what all dominant teams do. If spin is the way to do that, then so be it.

 

[Rana]

should make an even extreme turner in next match,babri will be again exposed inshallah and will be dumped forever

Imagine the most extreme turner ever,

Ball pitches on 10th stump outside leg and cuts back to knock top of off

Tbf, Babri is a sitting duck on roads against any decent left arm offie with an arm ball

 

[Rana]

Ah well, we are done with our roads and still losing matches at home because our bowlers can only pick up wickets that are gifted to us by the batters

 

[Rana]

I’ve seen dry and turning pitches, but these ones in Pakistan are just extreme. No one looks comfortable batting here -it’s all spinners, all the time.

Well, I like the fact that the extreme element sends alarm bells around the world

The sub continent must once again become the gruelling experience it once was. Proud records that Pakistan cricket held for decades were easily being broken by touring teams.

Enough is enough.

 

[Farabi]

What’s the point? Do they question when all 40 wickets are taken by seamers

 

[Hitman]

What’s the point? Do they question when all 40 wickets are taken by seamers

I have no point to make. I merely posted a post on X by a user who is followed by the likes of Naseer Hussain and V.V.S. Laxman.

 

[Hawkeye]

Indians should be the first to defend this. Been doing it for more than a decade.

Honestly entire subcontinent needs to unite here and tell the goras our pitches, our rules, if you prepare bounce or seaming tracks we will prepare spin tracks.

 

[Hitman]

Indians should be the first to defend this. Been doing it for more than a decade.

Honestly entire subcontinent needs to unite here and tell the goras our pitches, our rules, if you prepare bounce or seaming tracks we will prepare spin tracks.

The can take the liberty to produce whatever they want when subcontinent teams tour them. But when subcontinent teams prepare tracks at home according to their strengths then all hell breaks loose.

Kevin Pietersen once said it best that don't even bother to tour India if you can't play spin. Same should be for Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

 

[Farabi]

I have no point to make. I merely posted a post on X by a user who is followed by the likes of Naseer Hussain and V.V.S. Laxman.

Indian cricket fans should be the last to push this narrative. Indian cricket has historically been the biggest victim of the colonial mindset that glorifies seam-friendly pitches but vilifies spin-friendly ones.

When seamers dominate from ball one, it's celebrated as a test of skill, but when spinners extract turn early, it sparks criticism and accusations. If a pitch can assist seam from the first ball, why can't it also support turn from the start? This double standard continues to undermine the value of spin bowling, which has been a cornerstone of cricket in the subcontinent.

 

[Devadwal]

Turning tracks are fine but extreme Turner like Multan test pitch are way too much.

India vs England test series in 2024 played on supporting track where batsman, Pacers and Spinners all done great job

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Indians should be the first to defend this. Been doing it for more than a decade.

Honestly entire subcontinent needs to unite here and tell the goras our pitches, our rules, if you prepare bounce or seaming tracks we will prepare spin tracks.

No problem with this at all. Considering the level of seam movement on SENA surfaces these days, this shouldn't even be scrutinised as much .

 

[AZulfi]

^

Except that a test is supposed to combine both skills. Seamers having a say in the first innings and spinners likewise in the second (usually days 4 and 5)..

 

[mazkhan]

I'm sorry but that tanvir ahmed is one miserable git.

Pakistan fast bowling isn't there we saw that in the second test match in south africa when south africa produced a flatter pitch how they neutralised our pacers

 

[Major]

One problem with such wins is going to be that cricket fans on social media and places like here need to be ignored.

Spinners like Sajid Khan and Nauman will get inflated stats. But it needs to be kept in mind that these guys are still not good enough spinners on any other wicket or limited overs cricket. The calls for sahid khans addition to a limited over side on the basis of test performance is just utter stupidity being displayed

 

[Rana]

One problem with such wins is going to be that cricket fans on social media and places like here need to be ignored.

Spinners like Sajid Khan and Nauman will get inflated stats. But it needs to be kept in mind that these guys are still not good enough spinners on any other wicket or limited overs cricket. The calls for sahid khans addition to a limited over side on the basis of test performance is just utter stupidity being displayed

Sajid Khan has a list A economy of 4.21

That suggests he can bowl 10 overs for approximately 40 runs and pick up a wicket or two during the middle overs phase.

This is very useful. On top of that, Sajid is a good fielder and a handy lower order batsman. Asking for him to be in the ODI side is not the worst suggestion

 

[Major]

Sajid Khan has a list A economy of 4.21

That suggests he can bowl 10 overs for approximately 40 runs and pick up a wicket or two during the middle overs phase.

This is very useful. On top of that, Sajid is a good fielder and a handy lower order batsman. Asking for him to be in the ODI side is not the worst suggestion

But he has played 38 games and taken 34 wickets, thats the main concern. A spinner who takes a wicket per match isnt considered that good and he has played more games and taken less wickets.

Plus, Sajid lacks varieties for limited overs. This is why i say, celebrate the test wins, but due to the nature of wicket, one shouldnt start believing Sajid is good enough for limited overs

Sufiyan and Abrar are still our better options in limited overs.

If Sajid is to be selected for limited overs, he needs to prove it in domestic One day tournaments.