Why are Pakistanis upset about dominating Test matches at home recently?

[Kianig89]

Nobody is frustrated over these wins , infact it's just a baby step basically 3 wins on a trot , Pakistan plays very less Test cricket to count it as dominant.

6 home Tests in next year and 7 away, if PCB are to establish some sort of dominance they need to have atleast 3 Tests in home series

 

[Major]

I’ve seen dry and turning pitches, but these ones in Pakistan are just extreme. No one looks comfortable batting here -it’s all spinners, all the time.

As long as there is a result and 20 wickets are falling. That is good enough.

The game is equal for both sides.

 

[Barragan]

People like Tanvir and Sana Mir haven’t won a single game for Pakistan yet feel entitled to talk big.

Yeah, screw those kinds of people and fans

Those are the same ones that were enjoying the humiliation of losing Test series' at home and having opposition batters maul Pakistan at home

I hope Pakistan continues to produce these spinning tracks and they can keep crying

 

[Rana]

Nobody is frustrated over these wins

You most certainly are.

 

[mominsaigol]

As long as there is a result and 20 wickets are falling. That is good enough.

The game is equal for both sides.

Agree but it's not equal. Heavily dependant on the toss and pakistan can prepare better since the entire management team including the captain are literally on the pitch while it's being baked.

Pakistan has a clear cut advantage. However it's not an issue.

India is even worse. Not only did they curated wickets which turned ashwin and jadeja into so called all time greats. Same pitches were root was taking fivers,

But they also downright tampered with pitches during the world cup and outright cheated beyond belief.

Eng has also been guilty of this during home Ashes series and so has South Africa.

Australia isn't guilty in the sense that their pitches have always been bounce havens however they do make sure to orchestrate atleast one pink ball test because they know minus that fluke wi win, no team can defeat them in pink ball cause teams don't play pink ball.

 

[daytrader]

I wonder where we have seen this template before...

 

[mominsaigol]

I wonder where we have seen this template before...

After babar's humiliation, you disappeared as I predicted.

Now you've come out of hiding to spread a new agenda.

When babar fails go back to Misbah template

 

[Rana]

I wonder where we have seen this template before...

We’ve also seen stupid templates set by this man that have haunted Pakistan cricket. So don’t get too excited.

 

[moghul]

ICC should crack down on pitches like this .

 

[Major]

sana mir was saying on air that this can't go on for too long and you will have to get the fast bowlers involved

The most idiotic take of all time!

For what should they be involved for?

So Pakistan can start losing again?

Mindless garbage

wow didnt expect such stupidity from Sana Mir. What a fool she must be.

Always had respect for her.

 

[Kianig89]

Aleem Dar is the man behind this idea of spinning wickets, may be he remembered how during Misbah tenure Ajmal and Rehman were successful in UAE on dry wickets and Paksitan got the Test mace.

So they are trying to replicate this with Shan as captain

 

[daytrader]

After babar's humiliation, you disappeared as I predicted.

Now you've come out of hiding to spread a new agenda.

When babar fails go back to Misbah template

I ain't gone anywhere bud, still here to torment you. I like to enjoy my weekends. You should try touching grass sometimes.

And it's no agenda, give credit where it's due. Your gang has always complained about Misbah destroying fast bowling yet here you are appreciating playing to our strengths

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

A disingenuous post from the OP as usual. Nobody is upset that Pakistan won with brilliant contribution from kaptaana Rizwan other than the infamous duo of @shaz619 and @Rana , OP lives inside his own head. What is a problem is that these pitches will not help us develop into better cricketers.

 

[daytrader]

We’ve also seen stupid templates set by this man that have haunted Pakistan cricket. So don’t get too excited.

No one gets everything right all the time but these wins were right out of Sir Misbah ul Haq's playbook

 

[Slim]

I wonder where we have seen this template before...

Misbah’s template was having a chucker save his behind on uae dust bowls where attritional cricket was played. Theres no comparison!

 

[daytrader]

Misbah’s template was having a chucker save his behind on uae dust bowls where attritional cricket was played. Theres no comparison!

So Zulfiqar Babar and Yasir Shah were also chucking? Misbah used whatever limited resources we had and still racked up wins.

And btw Sajid and Noman also debuted under Misbah yet were unfairly sidelined for the last few years. How come no one is talking about that?

 

[emranabbas]

I wonder where we have seen this template before...

A template Misbah himself did not apply when cricket returned to Pakistan, even though he was both the head coach and selector at the time. The only person who deserves credit for this is Aqib Javed.

 

[Kianig89]

OP's claim of being dominant is laughable infact the captain Shan Masood himself knows he got his skin saved by a threads margin and there is nothing like of dominance. May be the claimant wants to feed his ego by using the words like dominance whereas the reality is far from it.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Under Misbah pace bowlers were involved.

It was a spin heavy strategy yes. But this new strategy is spin ONLY.

40 year old uncles bowling rippers with a 1 over ball on day 1 ain't cricket.

Aqib and Captain Shan have done well for the short term but I hope behind the scenes we are building to play properly.

 

[Rana]

OP's claim of being dominant is laughable

It’s laughable?

Chalo let’s all laugh.

Ha ha ha ha ha

Let’s laugh more?

He he he he he

Tasalli nahi hui? Thora aur hass le?

Hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo


Enough laughing?

 

[daytrader]

A template Misbah himself did not apply when cricket returned to Pakistan, even though he was both the head coach and selector at the time. The only person who deserves credit for this is Aqib Javed.

View attachment 149957

So Sajid and Noman are not spinners? Who did they debut under?

And we also started having better fast bowling resources.

Kuch bhi, please research before you start posting memes.

 

[daytrader]

It’s laughable?

Chalo let’s all laugh.

Ha ha ha ha ha

Let’s laugh more?

He he he he he

Tasalli nahi hui? Thora aur hass le?

Hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo


Enough laughing?

Insha'Allah we'll continue to dominate. Long may these laughs continue

 

[Kianig89]

Just for record being dominant should be if we had won by

A) Innings & 160 runs

B) Won by 10 wickets

C) Won by 310 Runs

 

[Rana]

Insha'Allah we'll continue to dominate. Long may these laughs continue

You do know you are laughing at your mate here?

 

[daytrader]

You do know you are laughing at your mate here?

You know very well I ain't affiliated with any one. No one should downplay Pakistan's achievements

 

[mominsaigol]

I ain't gone anywhere bud, still here to torment you. I like to enjoy my weekends. You should try touching grass sometimes.

And it's no agenda, give credit where it's due. Your gang has always complained about Misbah destroying fast bowling yet here you are appreciating playing to our strengths

Torment me how? By showing me babar test match performances

 

[jamie smith]

actually dominance means babri scoring tons on rawalpindi highway
your hate for shan is just unbelievable

Just for record being dominant should be if we had won by

A) Innings & 160 runs

B) Won by 10 wickets

C) Won by 310 Runs

 

[daytrader]

Torment me how? By showing me babar test match performances

Thread wasn't about Babar but I guess that's the only thing you think about. He'll be back in the top 10 before you know it.

I love it when we win without Babar's contributions, it shows our team is developing and we're not just reliant on our star batter.

 

[emranabbas]

So Sajid and Noman are not spinners? Who did they debut under?

And we also started having better fast bowling resources.

Kuch bhi, please research before you start posting memes.

we are talking about pitches not debuts, you claimed misbah selected this template so why didn't he produce spin tracks when cricket retuned in pakistan? instead he made roads?

 

[jamie smith]

??

Thread wasn't about Babar but I guess that's the only thing you think about. He'll be back in the top 10 before you know it.

I love it when we win without Babar's contributions, it shows our team is developing and we're not just reliant on our star batter.

when did babar make us win a test match??

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's fine to win test matches by preparing poor pitches, but that won't help Pakistan win games abroad where it's less of a lottery.

 

[daytrader]

we are talking about pitches not debuts, you claimed misbah selected this template so why didn't he produce spin tracks when cricket retuned in pakistan? instead he made roads?

We played 6 tests at home during Misbah as coach. We won 4. for the 2 remaining, 1 was cut short due to rain and was drawn. The other was postponed due to covid. So Misbah didn't lose any at home.

Really helps to research before jumping the gun

 

[DeadlyVenom]

We played 6 tests at home during Misbah as coach. We won 4. for the 2 remaining, 1 was cut short due to rain and was drawn. The other was postponed due to covid. So Misbah didn't lose any at home.

Really helps to research before jumping the gun

Yeah there were no phattas. Pakistan defeated Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and South Africa at home.

Phattas came back under Rambo

 

[emranabbas]

We played 6 tests at home during Misbah as coach. We won 4. for the 2 remaining, 1 was cut short due to rain and was drawn. The other was postponed due to covid. So Misbah didn't lose any at home.

Really helps to research before jumping the gun

so what your suggesting bring back roads so batsmens can score 400/4 and then declare?

 

[hassan918]

Sajid Khan has a list A economy of 4.21

That suggests he can bowl 10 overs for approximately 40 runs and pick up a wicket or two during the middle overs phase.

This is very useful. On top of that, Sajid is a good fielder and a handy lower order batsman. Asking for him to be in the ODI side is not the worst suggestion

Yes, these are decent numbers in List A cricket. He also has a batting average of 27.60 in List A cricket so he can also contribute with the bat at number 8 or 9.

 

[Rana]

Yes, these are decent numbers in List A cricket. He also has a batting average of 27.60 in List A cricket so he can also contribute with the bat at number 8 or 9.

If he was English, Australian, Kiwi, South African….he would have played ODI and T20i cricket by now and potentially a good amount of it.

These countries are not rigid when it comes to rotating players to give them exposure and building them up.

Pakistan overall a crap cricket team in white ball cricket but they have weird/rigid selection+rotation policies

 

[jamie smith]

tbh he also has a better offside game than riz and 100x better technique vs spin than bakri azam

 

[daytrader]

??


when did babar make us win a test match??

You got me there. Drop him then and find someone better

 

[jamie smith]

he has been a passenger on pitches that that offer even little bit help to bowlers

You got me there. Drop him then and find someone better

 

[Buffet]

I see lots of comments that India has been doing it for ages and drawing equivalence due to success of Ahsiwn and Jadeja.

Pacers in tests in India:





Shami/Bumrah/Yadav/Ishant combined have around 300 test wickets in India.

How long it will take Pakistani pacers combined to take 300 plus test wickets with pitches like this when spin will take 20 wickets most of the times? Anyone drawing parallel with India having same pitches is missing the point. India has spin assisting pitches but not the pitches which Pakistan is producing now. Otherwise 4 pacers together won't have aorund 300 test wickets at home.

Sure, have a spin friendly pitches but not this where spin will take 20 wickets for Pakistan most of the times. It's Mirpur like situation.

Having said that no issue in Pakistan deciding that they want their own Mirpur. BD thought they would only win with Mirpur and if Pakistan thinks the same then it's all right. Selector, coach, captain and chairman, all being camped inside the ground overseeing pitch preparation was unprecedented during Eng series but doing it to end losing streak was somewhat understandable. Doing it to win test against WI seems bit too much.

But as I said, if Pakistan has decided that they need their own Mirpur then they need their own Mirpur.

 

[Buffet]

I don't think many Pakistani fans are upset over a win. Most will be happy.

They probably don't think that Pakistan needs their own Mirpur to win tests against WI.

It's not an exclusive choice.

It's just difference of opinion here.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I see lots of comments that India has been doing it for ages and drawing equivalence due to success of Ahsiwn and Jadeja.

Pacers in tests in India:

View attachment 149963



Shami/Bumrah/Yadav/Ishant combined have around 300 test wickets in India.

How long it will take Pakistani pacers combined to take 300 plus test wickets with pitches like this when spin will take 20 wickets most of the times? Anyone drawing parallel with India having same pitches is missing the point. India has spin assisting pitches but not the pitches which Pakistan is producing now. Otherwise 4 pacers together won't have aorund 300 test wickets at home.

Sure, have a spin friendly pitches but not this where spin will take 20 wickets for Pakistan most of the times. It's Mirpur like situation.

Having said that no issue in Pakistan deciding that they want their own Mirpur. BD thought they would only win with Mirpur and if Pakistan thinks the same then it's all right. Selector, coach, captain and chairman, all being camped inside the ground overseeing pitch preparation was unprecedented during Eng series but doing it to end losing streak was somewhat understandable. Doing it to win test against WI seems bit too much.

But as I said, if Pakistan has decided that they need their own Mirpur then they need their own Mirpur.

Exactly.

Thanks for providing some context here. As I have been saying it is a Bangladesh strategy not India.

As per your question in bold - 1 pacer Khurram Shezad bowled 1 over against West Indies in the whole match. 300 wickets for pace won't happen for a hundred years at this rate.

 

[gazza619]

I see lots of comments that India has been doing it for ages and drawing equivalence due to success of Ahsiwn and Jadeja.

Pacers in tests in India:

View attachment 149963



Shami/Bumrah/Yadav/Ishant combined have around 300 test wickets in India.

How long it will take Pakistani pacers combined to take 300 plus test wickets with pitches like this when spin will take 20 wickets most of the times? Anyone drawing parallel with India having same pitches is missing the point. India has spin assisting pitches but not the pitches which Pakistan is producing now. Otherwise 4 pacers together won't have aorund 300 test wickets at home.

Sure, have a spin friendly pitches but not this where spin will take 20 wickets for Pakistan most of the times. It's Mirpur like situation.

Having said that no issue in Pakistan deciding that they want their own Mirpur. BD thought they would only win with Mirpur and if Pakistan thinks the same then it's all right. Selector, coach, captain and chairman, all being camped inside the ground overseeing pitch preparation was unprecedented during Eng series but doing it to end losing streak was somewhat understandable. Doing it to win test against WI seems bit too much.

But as I said, if Pakistan has decided that they need their own Mirpur then they need their own Mirpur.

POTW stuff.

 

[mominsaigol]

You got me there. Drop him then and find someone better

They did drop him and pakistan won 2 tests.

This is the first test pakistan has ever won with Babar at the helm.

 

[Rana]

They did drop him and pakistan won 2 tests.

This is the first test pakistan has ever won with Babar at the helm.

His 10 runs were a vital contribution

 

[emranabbas]

They did drop him and pakistan won 2 tests.

This is the first test pakistan has ever won with Babar at the helm.

Where Babar only scores 13 runs in both Innings

 

[mominsaigol]

His 10 runs were a vital contribution

Where Babar only scores 13 runs in both Innings

I'm glad babar is batting in such wickets now. The more he bats on such wickets the more his supporters run out of excuses.

Most of babar's centuries are achieved on pitches where imam and Abdullah batted as if they were Bradman on day 5 test pitches against world class bowling attacks.

That test was such a disgrace that Australia lost interest in playing Pakistan on home soil and England was their reckoning.

And he only has 1 century in SENA.

I wouldn't be surprised if babar's avg drops below 43 in the next game especially if Pakistan bat 2nd.

If he keeps going at this rate, he'll eventually reach asad shafiq level as a test player. Retiring with a 38 avg and 12 test centuries or heck maybe even worse.

 

[jnaveen1980]

*edit*

 

[daytrader]

They did drop him and pakistan won 2 tests.

This is the first test pakistan has ever won with Babar at the helm.

So Babar was at the helm? Why do you even post when you don't know basic terminology

 

[Farabi]

we are talking about pitches not debuts, you claimed misbah selected this template so why didn't he produce spin tracks when cricket retuned in pakistan? instead he made roads?

@daytrader @Major @Rana

That’s a great point. Misbah had full authority as coach and selector when cricket returned to Pakistan, with the UAE experience and perspective to adopt a spin-focused strategy. Yet, he didn’t, which is criminally stupid and it suggests he may not have viewed a “spin fortress” as Pakistan’s natural home advantage, setting us on the wrong path.

This is despite spin and reverse swing being Pakistan’s core strengths for decades, as Aqib rightly noted.

It’s likely that the spin-based strategy in the UAE wasn’t Misbah’s masterstroke but the work of someone else in the team management.

 

[Farabi]

I see lots of comments that India has been doing it for ages and drawing equivalence due to success of Ahsiwn and Jadeja.

Pacers in tests in India:

View attachment 149963



Shami/Bumrah/Yadav/Ishant combined have around 300 test wickets in India.

How long it will take Pakistani pacers combined to take 300 plus test wickets with pitches like this when spin will take 20 wickets most of the times? Anyone drawing parallel with India having same pitches is missing the point. India has spin assisting pitches but not the pitches which Pakistan is producing now. Otherwise 4 pacers together won't have aorund 300 test wickets at home.

Sure, have a spin friendly pitches but not this where spin will take 20 wickets for Pakistan most of the times. It's Mirpur like situation.

Having said that no issue in Pakistan deciding that they want their own Mirpur. BD thought they would only win with Mirpur and if Pakistan thinks the same then it's all right. Selector, coach, captain and chairman, all being camped inside the ground overseeing pitch preparation was unprecedented during Eng series but doing it to end losing streak was somewhat understandable. Doing it to win test against WI seems bit too much.

But as I said, if Pakistan has decided that they need their own Mirpur then they need their own Mirpur.

@DeadlyVenom @emranabbas @gazza619

Very misleading! You’ve conveniently left out the earlier data that included spinner contributions.

The pacers mentioned have 300 Test wickets, but Indian spinners have over 1,200 wickets. Clearly, Indian pacers have only been picking up scraps—Bumrah, for instance, has taken just 45 Test wickets at home in the last 8 years. It’s obvious that India relies heavily on the Ashwin-Jadeja duo, not their pacers.

Pakistani pacers might have a slightly bigger role than what Indian pacers do, but it’s still early days. Like India, I expect Pakistan’s fast bowlers to play more of a supporting role at home.

 

[Major]

@daytrader @Major @Rana

That’s a great point. Misbah had full authority as coach and selector when cricket returned to Pakistan, with the UAE experience and perspective to adopt a spin-focused strategy. Yet, he didn’t, which is criminally stupid and it suggests he may not have viewed a “spin fortress” as Pakistan’s natural home advantage, setting us on the wrong path.

This is despite spin and reverse swing being Pakistan’s core strengths for decades, as Aqib rightly noted.

It’s likely that the spin-based strategy in the UAE wasn’t Misbah’s masterstroke but the work of someone else in the team management.

as coach Misbah maintain a 100% record at home for series win and that to on pace wickets...

 

[DeadlyVenom]

as coach Misbah maintain a 100% record at home for series win and that to on pace wickets...

Some people have bad memories.....

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@DeadlyVenom @emranabbas @gazza619

Very misleading! You’ve conveniently left out the earlier data that included spinner contributions.

The pacers mentioned have 300 Test wickets, but Indian spinners have over 1,200 wickets. Clearly, Indian pacers have only been picking up scraps—Bumrah, for instance, has taken just 45 Test wickets at home in the last 8 years. It’s obvious that India relies heavily on the Ashwin-Jadeja duo, not their pacers.

Pakistani pacers might have a slightly bigger role than what Indian pacers do, but it’s still early days. Like India, I expect Pakistan’s fast bowlers to play more of a supporting role at home.

Happy for a spin heavy approach.

Not happy for a spin only approach.

Even in UAE during Misbah era Junaid Khan, Wahab Riaz, Umar Gul all chipped in with wickets and averaged around the 30 mark. Imran Khan Jr also had good matches.

The only comparison with Pakistans current approach is with Bangladesh in Mirpur. While I am happy we are winning I can't do bhangra because I know where it will take us....

 

[Farabi]

as coach Misbah maintain a 100% record at home for series win and that to on pace wickets...

That’s besides the point. He set us on a wrong path at home.
He, of all people, should have been the one to recognize what’s needed given then investment in him in the UAE. Instead it’s Aqib Javed who does the obvious.

 

[Major]

That’s besides the point. He set us on a wrong path at home.
He, of all people, should have been the one to recognize what’s needed given then investment in him in the UAE. Instead it’s Aqib Javed who does the obvious.

ok, but he maintain a 100% win record at home. So what are you on about?

 

[Farabi]

Happy for a spin heavy approach.

Not happy for a spin only approach.

Even in UAE during Misbah era Junaid Khan, Wahab Riaz, Umar Gul all chipped in with wickets and averaged around the 30 mark. Imran Khan Jr also had good matches.

The only comparison with Pakistans current approach is with Bangladesh in Mirpur. While I am happy we are winning I can't do bhangra because I know where it will take us....

I don’t want our pacers playing red ball at home on graveyard shifts, specially when PCB is not willing to pay or manage their injuries.

I’d rather see our pacers in action during away tests and white ball cricket where they can shine.

If PCB medical panel and facilities are improved, I will change my mind.

 

[Farabi]

ok, but he maintain a 100% win record at home. So what are you on about?

Answer my question:

Was Misbah wrong in not adopting a spin based strategy in Pakistan from the word go?

 

[daytrader]

We played 6 tests at home during Misbah as coach. We won 4. for the 2 remaining, 1 was cut short due to rain and was drawn. The other was postponed due to covid. So Misbah didn't lose any at home.

Really helps to research before jumping the gun

@Farabi to answer your question. He knew how to win. Whether it was fortress UAE or in Pakistan. If he had been art the helm, I have no doubt thay we would've been formidable at home

 

[Farabi]

@Farabi to answer your question. He knew how to win. Whether it was fortress UAE or in Pakistan. If he had been art the helm, I have no doubt thay we would've been formidable at home

Lol, looks like you and @Major are avoiding my question like it's kryptonite.

Was Misbah wrong for not implementing a spin-based strategy in Pakistan from the start?

The sample size is too small to judge, and wins against a COVID-depleted Sri Lanka and Bangladesh don’t really count. Many international players also pulled out because Pakistan was still not seen as safe. The only significant win was against South Africa, and even then, the second test was won by spinners in Karachi.

 

[emranabbas]

as coach Misbah maintain a 100% record at home for series win and that to on pace wickets...

@DeadlyVenom

The discussion at hand is about someone claiming that this spin template was created by Misbah. Our question is, if that’s the case, why wasn’t this template implemented during Misbah’s tenure as coach? What relevance does his 100% record have to this discussion?

 

[Farabi]

@DeadlyVenom

The discussion at hand is about someone claiming that this spin template was created by Misbah. Our question is, if that’s the case, why wasn’t this template implemented during Misbah’s tenure as coach? What relevance does his 100% record have to this discussion?

A 100% record is irrelevant—it’s just a distraction. If you look closer, it’s only 2 test wins against badly depleted Bangladesh and Sri Lanka sides, and 2 wins against South Africa, one of which, surprise surprise, was also due to spin in Karachi.

 

[Major]

Answer my question:

Was Misbah wrong in not adopting a spin based strategy in Pakistan from the word go?

Are you gonna argue that Misbah should had played pacers in UAE to win?

 

[emranabbas]

Happy for a spin heavy approach.

Not happy for a spin only approach.

Even in UAE during Misbah era Junaid Khan, Wahab Riaz, Umar Gul all chipped in with wickets and averaged around the 30 mark. Imran Khan Jr also had good matches.

The only comparison with Pakistans current approach is with Bangladesh in Mirpur. While I am happy we are winning I can't do bhangra because I know where it will take us....

So you have pace bowlers who can win you matches and not get tonked?

Name me 4 bowlers who can clock 140+ and bowl long overs with accuracy and pace

 

[Major]

A 100% record is irrelevant—it’s just a distraction. If you look closer, it’s only 2 test wins against badly depleted Bangladesh and Sri Lanka sides, and 2 wins against South Africa, one of which, surprise surprise, was also due to spin in Karachi.

How is it irrelevant? When he won all games with another strategy than why you wanting him to adopt another strategy.

Like i have seen posters complain about things after losing..but now posters are complaining after winning...

 

[Rana]

As far as I can recall, UAE wickets were never this vicious from ball 1 as they have been in the last 3 Test matches at home in Pakistan.

I think Aqib and Pakistan need to go as extreme as possible. Tunn Ke Rakho spin track! Kich ke rakho kam!

 

[Major]

@DeadlyVenom

The discussion at hand is about someone claiming that this spin template was created by Misbah. Our question is, if that’s the case, why wasn’t this template implemented during Misbah’s tenure as coach? What relevance does his 100% record have to this discussion?

When Misbah won with pacers at home so why spin template should had been adopted?

There wasnt need. The win record is relevant because when he didnt lost so why change the strategy


However Misbah did adopt the spin strategy in UAE. And if i remember correctly, posters on this forum complained and wanted 3 pacers to play instead 2 spinners on UAE wickets. The concept of winning through spinners in test for Pakistan was alien concept and Misbah was the one who introduced this way.

One of the reasons why the incorrect tag of defensive captaincy was given to Misbah was cause of the spin strategy he adopted. The 3 - 0 whitewash againsy england in uae wasnt digested by many here. And back than it was the same rona that our pace identity is gonna finish.

 

[emranabbas]

@Farabi to answer your question. He knew how to win. Whether it was fortress UAE or in Pakistan. If he had been art the helm, I have no doubt thay we would've been formidable at home

This i can agree with but your claim about misbah bringing in a spin template is baseless
You still need to explain that

 

[Major]

Lol, looks like you and @Major are avoiding my question like it's kryptonite.

Was Misbah wrong for not implementing a spin-based strategy in Pakistan from the start?

The sample size is too small to judge, and wins against a COVID-depleted Sri Lanka and Bangladesh don’t really count. Many international players also pulled out because Pakistan was still not seen as safe. The only significant win was against South Africa, and even then, the second test was won by spinners in Karachi.

No one is avoiding anyone, and no one is a kryptonite here. Sometimes the questions and post are too childish that they are ignored.

You cant go around saying what can count and cannot count. Same bangladesh defeated pakistan recentlt, same sri lanka defeated Pakistan under Sarfraz. So whether you like it or not the 100 percent record does count. Why no one else cant do the same?

Your whole argument js flawed that even thoùgh we won all series but why Misbah not adopt a different strategy, and than when no answers such childish questions you think you are a kryptonite here lol

 

[emranabbas]

How is it irrelevant? When he won all games with another strategy than why you wanting him to adopt another strategy.

Like i have seen posters complain about things after losing..but now posters are complaining after winning...

You and others need to stop falsely claiming that Misbah introduced a spin template in Pakistan when he was winning matches with pacers on pace-friendly tracks.

 

[Major]

You and others need to stop falsely claiming that Misbah introduced a spin template in Pakistan when he was winning matches with pacers on pace-friendly tracks.

Did he not win in UAE with spinners?

 

[emranabbas]

Did he not win in UAE with spinners?

Yes he did

We are specifically talking about pakistan not UAE

No idea why you guys are trying to shove misbah in it

Is UAE and Pakistan the same country?

 

[Farabi]

No one is avoiding anyone, and no one is a kryptonite here. Sometimes the questions and post are too childish that they are ignored.

You cant go around saying what can count and cannot count. Same bangladesh defeated pakistan recentlt, same sri lanka defeated Pakistan under Sarfraz. So whether you like it or not the 100 percent record does count. Why no one else cant do the same?

Your whole argument js flawed that even thoùgh we won all series but why Misbah not adopt a different strategy, and than when no answers such childish questions you think you are a kryptonite here lol

When Misbah won with pacers at home so why spin template should had been adopted?

There wasnt need. The win record is relevant because when he didnt lost so why change the strategy


However Misbah did adopt the spin strategy in UAE. And if i remember correctly, posters on this forum complained and wanted 3 pacers to play instead 2 spinners on UAE wickets. The concept of winning through spinners in test for Pakistan was alien concept and Misbah was the one who introduced this way.

One of the reasons why the incorrect tag of defensive captaincy was given to Misbah was cause of the spin strategy he adopted. The 3 - 0 whitewash againsy england in uae wasnt digested by many here. And back than it was the same rona that our pace identity is gonna finish.

Pakistan's Test cricket success has been fundamentally tied to spin bowling throughout its history. The notion that Pakistan struggled to win Tests through spin before the UAE era is demonstrably false. From the 1970s through the 1990s, Pakistan's home dominance was built around master spinners - Abdul Qadir terrorizing batting lineups, the shrewd partnership of Iqbal Qasim and Tauseef Ahmed winning crucial matches, and later the innovative duo of Saqlain Mushtaq and Mushtaq Ahmed. Even when reverse swing revolutionized Pakistan's bowling in the 1990s, it was the combination of reverse swing with quality spin that made Pakistan nearly unbeatable at home.

The shift toward flatter pitches began during Inzamam's era, yet even then, spinners like Danish Kaneria remained instrumental to Pakistan's success. This demonstrates the enduring importance of spin in Pakistani conditions, regardless of pitch preparation.

Second, your claim that Misbah had “perfect" home record requires context - it consists of merely four Tests victories considerably weakened opposition due to COVID/security risks. Such a limited sample size cannot justify sweeping conclusions about strategy or approach.

True cricketing vision requires developing strategies that remain effective across time. While Misbah-ul-Haq's contributions as player and captain are significant, his strategic approach as team director revealed a concerning lack of long-term vision. The contrast with Aqib Javed's clear-minded advocacy for traditional Pakistani strength of going back to pre-2000 era of dry pitches that support both reverse and spin is striking.

What makes Misbah's decision particularly perplexing is that he had both the empirical evidence from UAE success and a world-class spinner in Yasir Shah at his disposal. Yet, he chose to experiment with flat pitches - a strategy that had historically proven ineffective in Pakistan and predictably failed again overtime and brought humiliation to Pakistan. This departure from Pakistan's proven strengths represents a missed opportunity to establish a sustainable home advantage upon cricket's return to Pakistan.

 

[daytrader]

Lol, looks like you and @Major are avoiding my question like it's kryptonite.

Was Misbah wrong for not implementing a spin-based strategy in Pakistan from the start?

The sample size is too small to judge, and wins against a COVID-depleted Sri Lanka and Bangladesh don’t really count. Many international players also pulled out because Pakistan was still not seen as safe. The only significant win was against South Africa, and even then, the second test was won by spinners in Karachi.

You're missing the point on purpose by fixating on whether Misbah was right or wrong. He's been right all along, you guys are just starting to realize it by advocating strategies that he was already using. You don't want to give that credit to him because it would require you to backtrack on the years of hate you guys have been spreading.

Did he have a spin heavy strategy? Absolutely. He was using two spinners all along plus part timers.

Did we have better fast bowling resources when cricket returned to Pakistan? Yes, Shaheen, Naseem and Hasan Ali all played a vital part in our wins.

And if you think the sample size is too small then just look at his wins in the UAE. It's clear Misbah knew how to win at home or an adopted home.

You can associate these wins with Aaqib but everyone that's been following Pakistan cricket for a long time knows that we've seen this successful template before.

 

[Farabi]

You're missing the point on purpose by fixating on whether Misbah was right or wrong. He's been right all along, you guys are just starting to realize it by advocating strategies that he was already using. You don't want to give that credit to him because it would require you to backtrack on the years of hate you guys have been spreading.

Did he have a spin heavy strategy? Absolutely. He was using two spinners all along plus part timers.

Did we have better fast bowling resources when cricket returned to Pakistan? Yes, Shaheen, Naseem and Hasan Ali all played a vital part in our wins.

And if you think the sample size is too small then just look at his wins in the UAE. It's clear Misbah knew how to win at home or an adopted home.

You can associate these wins with Aaqib but everyone that's been following Pakistan cricket for a long time knows that we've seen this successful template before.

You are assuming and packaging a lot things together. I LOVE Misbah the test batter and captain.

Does Misbah deserve credit for implementing a successful formula in UAE? Yes.

Was Misbah a good test captain and batter? Yes.

Did Misbah as the coach deploy right long-term vision and strategy upon return of cricket in Pakistan? No.

Is Misbah a great visionary? No.

 

[Rana]

Is Misbah a great visionary? No.

Amen to that.

This idiot has stated somewhere that if a guy is a good FC red ball batsman, he will naturally be a good T20 batsman.

 

[Farabi]

Amen to that.

This idiot has stated somewhere that if a guy is a good FC red ball batsman, he will naturally be a good T20 batsman.

Taking 3 teenagers (Musa, Shaheen, and Naseem) to debut in the Australia Test series will always top my list. That was just embarrassing.

A close second was ignoring Younis Khan initially in ODIs and then making him an opener in the 2015 World Cup.

I’ll place yours at third.

 

[daytrader]

Did Misbah as the coach deploy right long-term vision and strategy upon return of cricket in Pakistan? No.

Is Misbah a great visionary? No.

He tried. But his vision was cut short due to Ramiz Raja trying to show efficiency. Bear in mind that Misbah was coach for only 2 years. Even the spin duo of Noman and Sajid were sidelined.

That's the biggest problem in Pakistan cricket, the constant chopping and churning at the top doesn't allow any vision to come true.

 

[daytrader]

Taking 3 teenagers (Musa, Shaheen, and Naseem) to debut in the Australia Test series will always top my list. That was just embarrassing.

A close second was ignoring Younis Khan initially in ODIs and then making him an opener in the 2015 World Cup.

I’ll place yours at third.

2 out of the 3 teenagers are our premier pacers right now. And that attack would've looked different if Amir wasn't so selfish.

As for Younis Khan, he blackmailed his way back into the ODI setup. His media outbursts are on record.

 

[Rana]

Taking 3 teenagers (Musa, Shaheen, and Naseem) to debut in the Australia Test series will always top my list. That was just embarrassing.

A close second was ignoring Younis Khan initially in ODIs and then making him an opener in the 2015 World Cup.

I’ll place yours at third.

Another point you need to remember is his vision regarding players who were not good enough for him when he was captain but suddenly became the best players in his view for Pakistan as soon as he became coach.

The guy is an absolute filth piece work of art. He and his SNGPL regime+agenda can burn in the pits of hell for all I care!