Donald Trump says India, Pakistan can handle Kashmir dispute on their own

[Sachin136]

BIARRITZ, France (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said on Monday that India and Pakistan could handle their dispute over Kashmir on their own, but he was there should they need him.

The U.S. president has previously offered to mediate between India and Pakistan on Kashmir, a mountainous region which has been the source of repeated confrontations between the two nuclear-armed neighbors ever since they gained independence from British colonial rule in 1947.

Trump discussed the issue on the sidelines of a G7 summit in France with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who withdrew autonomy for the state of Jammu and Kashmir on Aug. 5.

“We spoke last night about Kashmir, the prime minister really feels he has it under control,” he told reporters. “They speak with Pakistan and I’m sure that they will be able to do something that will be very good,” he said.

Trump infuriated the Indian government last month when he said Modi had asked him to mediate in the dispute, drawing an immediate denial from New Delhi.

Sitting alongside Trump, Modi said the issues over Kashmir were bilateral, between India and Pakistan.

Modi’s abrupt decision this month to cancel the mainly Muslim region’s autonomous status triggered weeks of protests, mainly in the restive district of Soura, which has emerged as the center of discontent.

It has also drawn deep anger in Pakistan, which said last week it would take the case to the International Court of Justice.

On Monday, Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan said the United Nations had a responsibility to ensure that the people of Kashmir had the right to decide their own future through a referendum.

He called Modi’s intervention a “huge blunder” and said the risk of nuclear confrontation between the two countries meant the issue went beyond the immediate region.

“The responsibility today lies on the international community,” he said in a special televised address on Kashmir, adding that Pakistan would “go to any length at every forum” to press the issue.

He called on Pakistanis to stop work for half an hour on Friday as a mark of solidarity with Kashmiris.

“We as a whole nation give this message to the 8 million Kashmiris that we are standing with them,” he said.

Kashmir has been the starting point for two of the three wars India and Pakistan have fought since the two states were created out of British-ruled India following World War Two.

In February this year, following a militant attack on a police convoy in Indian-controlled Kashmir, the two countries came close to war with jets fighting a dogfight in the skies over Kashmir before tensions eased.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...le-kashmir-dispute-on-their-own-idUSKCN1VG150

 

[JaDed]

The guy will say something else next week.

 

[Syed1]

So I see for Indians Reuters is back to being a credible and reputable news agency. Or does it only spread fake news when it doesn't toe the chaiwala's line?

 

[Itachi]

So.... In summary, USA thrown the ball again to Pakistan who is helpless.

 

[troodon]

This was expected. Nobody wants to challenge India and lose their business.

 

[Itachi]

So I see for Indians Reuters is back to being a credible and reputable news agency. Or does it only spread fake news when it doesn't toe the chaiwala's line?

You guys believe reuters. So we are hoping you will at least believe this news to say the least.

 

[Sachin136]

So I see for Indians Reuters is back to being a credible and reputable news agency. Or does it only spread fake news when it doesn't toe the chaiwala's line?

Don't worry about the article, just watch the video.

 

[Savak]

Thanks to the Mir jafar parties PPP and PML N who in their twenty years of power committed economic genocide against the nation while India in those twenty years implemented economic reforms so that they could economically matter to the rest of the world big time

 

[Lonewarrior]

Good, we will do it our own way,thn no one should blame us after that....

 

[Tiger96]

Poor Imran Khan got to feel sorry for him. Has been working overtime on twitter to expose the Nazi Hindu Genocide in Kashmir. Mager koi bhaav nahi de raha hai Becharay ko.

 

[pakistani pride]

I know this is an open forum but seriously some of the non sense certain Indians post.

I mean just be real. We all know the ROW will not come in between PAK and INDIA. We also know that on the world stage India is a much bigger player than Pakistan. No shame in saying that. Pak has a long long way to go and with due respect IOK should not be PAKs worry. Thats the fight of the Kashmiris and good luck to them.

Just its that we do not need a zillion threads on something thats pretty obvious.

 

[Sachin136]

I know this is an open forum but seriously some of the non sense certain Indians post.

I mean just be real. We all know the ROW will not come in between PAK and INDIA. We also know that on the world stage India is a much bigger player than Pakistan. No shame in saying that. Pak has a long long way to go and with due respect IOK should not be PAKs worry. Thats the fight of the Kashmiris and good luck to them.

Just its that we do not need a zillion threads on something thats pretty obvious.

I agree with you, but unfortunately most Pakistanis (including your PM) seem to disagree. They are trying desperately to get the rest of the world to intervene.

 

[pakistani pride]

I agree with you, but unfortunately most Pakistanis (including your PM) seem to disagree. They are trying desperately to get the rest of the world to intervene.

You cant blame IK much here. I mean he is dealing with people that tolerated the likes of Nawaz Sharif and Zardari for decades.

PAK needs to look at Germany, I mean after WW2 they had to start from 0 and look at Germany today.

Its a long road ahead but PAK and most importantly the people in PAK need to get their priorities right.

 

[Varun]

I know this is an open forum but seriously some of the non sense certain Indians post.

I mean just be real. We all know the ROW will not come in between PAK and INDIA. We also know that on the world stage India is a much bigger player than Pakistan. No shame in saying that. Pak has a long long way to go and with due respect IOK should not be PAKs worry. Thats the fight of the Kashmiris and good luck to them.

Just its that we do not need a zillion threads on something thats pretty obvious.

Some would think that a statement by the most powerful ruler on earth - even if it's Trump - on India and Pakistan is relevant to this audience, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[pakistani pride]

Some would think that a statement by the most powerful ruler on earth - even if it's Trump - on India and Pakistan is relevant to this audience, but whatever floats your boat.

Tell us something new.
As I mentioned PAK will do good to just move on from this whole drama.

 

[Syed1]

Don't worry about the article, just watch the video.

I don't respond to Hindutva extremists.

 

[Rudi hater]

I know this is an open forum but seriously some of the non sense certain Indians post.

I mean just be real. We all know the ROW will not come in between PAK and INDIA. We also know that on the world stage India is a much bigger player than Pakistan. No shame in saying that. Pak has a long long way to go and with due respect IOK should not be PAKs worry. Thats the fight of the Kashmiris and good luck to them.

Just its that we do not need a zillion threads on something thats pretty obvious.

You are joking aren't you? So let armless people die and let India comitt genocide. No human being with little bit of heart and respect for a human life can say such thing.

 

[Napa]

You are joking aren't you? So let armless people die and let India comitt genocide. No human being with little bit of heart and respect for a human life can say such thing.

Population of Muslim Kashmiris has increased 200% in the last 70 years. I thought a genocide led to the population decreasing.

 

[ReverseHit]

Who cares what Trump has to say. You can make him say anything just by having his ear for a few minutes, only for him to "change his mind" the next day.

 

[rhony]

There will be no mediation. Who is gonna mediate? Let's say if India agrees to it, do you think they will go back to 370 again? That's settled for good. If somebody mediates, it should be somebody who is going to be influential for decades with loads of patience. These democratic leaders last just a few years and Kashmir isn't even in the top 10 agendas. I think bilateral talks can proceed with the following conditions
1) Significant trade between both countries with massive trade imbalance favoring India. Similar to what Pak has with China.
2) Road access to Afghanistan for Indian goods through Pak
3)Pak should lose claim of J&K and LOC will be an international border. Nobody wants Muzaffarabad. Gilgit could be an issue but Indians won't insist as long as they have access to Afg and Central Asia through Pak.
4) No more Jihadi support against India. Handover Hafeez, All the Mumbai attack goons, Azhar, Dawood.
5) India to sign an agreement on the Pakistani waters through Kashmir.

 

[Napa]

There will be no mediation. Who is gonna mediate? Let's say if India agrees to it, do you think they will go back to 370 again? That's settled for good. If somebody mediates, it should be somebody who is going to be influential for decades with loads of patience. These democratic leaders last just a few years and Kashmir isn't even in the top 10 agendas. I think bilateral talks can proceed with the following conditions
1) Significant trade between both countries with massive trade imbalance favoring India. Similar to what Pak has with China.
2) Road access to Afghanistan for Indian goods through Pak
3)Pak should lose claim of J&K and LOC will be an international border. Nobody wants Muzaffarabad. Gilgit could be an issue but Indians won't insist as long as they have access to Afg and Central Asia through Pak.
4) No more Jihadi support against India. Handover Hafeez, All the Mumbai attack goons, Azhar, Dawood.
5) India to sign an agreement on the Pakistani waters through Kashmir.

This is what reasonable people would agree to. However, continuation of the low-level war between India and Pakistan benefits you know who so no dice

 

[pakistani pride]

You are joking aren't you? So let armless people die and let India comitt genocide. No human being with little bit of heart and respect for a human life can say such thing.

Thats the harsh reality. I mean in PAK people have no food, no water, no money, no education etc etc.

PAK has bigger worries then to start a fight over a place that falls under India...

 

[Ram Shekhar]

I don't respond to Hindutva extremists.

I could hear the slap ringing in my ear. Well done mate!

 

[Ram Shekhar]

This clown is an embarrassment to the entire world

What an utter stupid. He changes words based on who he is talking to. I'm sure he will say he will intervene when he meets Imran next.

 

[CRIC_FANtastic]

IK wanted to leverage US AF Exit plan to force trump mediate in J&K. Well, this time, US has more leverage than just AF. There is a FATF meeting coming in October, then there is IMF loan. Pakistan has no option but to walk the US line. Oh yes, there will be rhetoric and public posturing. but that's about all.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He is right. No one seriously expected USA to get involved, for Pakistan it is more about bringing the issue to world's attention and that has been done.

On the ground, India will press ahead with their own plans, and Pakistan will have to decide their options. Proxy wars will damage both nations, but may be unavoidable if Pakistan wants to preserve their claim on Kashmir.

 

[Asim_khan]

There will be no mediation. Who is gonna mediate? Let's say if India agrees to it, do you think they will go back to 370 again? That's settled for good. If somebody mediates, it should be somebody who is going to be influential for decades with loads of patience. These democratic leaders last just a few years and Kashmir isn't even in the top 10 agendas. I think bilateral talks can proceed with the following conditions
1) Significant trade between both countries with massive trade imbalance favoring India. Similar to what Pak has with China.
2) Road access to Afghanistan for Indian goods through Pak
3)Pak should lose claim of J&K and LOC will be an international border. Nobody wants Muzaffarabad. Gilgit could be an issue but Indians won't insist as long as they have access to Afg and Central Asia through Pak.
4) No more Jihadi support against India. Handover Hafeez, All the Mumbai attack goons, Azhar, Dawood.
5) India to sign an agreement on the Pakistani waters through Kashmir.

Mate, go feed all your people first before making demands on Pakistan. You've got 45 percent of your people living in poverty and you're making demands on us?

And that unemployment issue isn't gonna help, I think that's what you should concentrate on.

 

[rhony]

Mate, go feed all your people first before making demands on Pakistan. You've got 45 percent of your people living in poverty and you're making demands on us?

And that unemployment issue isn't gonna help, I think that's what you should concentrate on.

Mate, it's a "bilateral issue". That means the comparison is between India and Pakistan and we all know where both countries stand in economy. The numbers you gave are grossly overexaggerated and are probably Pakistani numbers. Also, remember India wants to focus on precisely those things while Pakistan is the party that's craving for bilateral discussions. India already said it's an internal matter.

 

[Asim_khan]

Mate, it's a "bilateral issue". That means the comparison is between India and Pakistan and we all know where both countries stand in economy. The numbers you gave are grossly overexaggerated and are probably Pakistani numbers. Also, remember India wants to focus on precisely those things while Pakistan is the party that's craving for bilateral discussions. India already said it's an internal matter.

You've got your head in the sand like an ostrich, much like the rest of India, this is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode, you've got a ridiculous gender ratio, millions of young sex starved men out of work and instead of sorting that out and ensuring female infanticide isn't occuring so these men can have mates, you're trying to dictate terms to Pakistan? Would Pakistan want to give favourable terms to a state who can't even look after it's own? Wanna shoot for the moon but treats 45 percent of its people like baboons.


Now we know why you really want access to Afghanistan and central Asia, it's the light skinned DNA which those sex starved angry young men thirst after , why do they hate themselves and their bhagwan given melanin so much? Here I am trying to help a mate out, and instead of taking my honest impartial advice you turn full Bhakht and play the man and not ball. Just because you can't find a female partner is no reason to be abusive online.

 

[rhony]

You've got your head in the sand like an ostrich, much like the rest of India, this is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode, you've got a ridiculous gender ratio, millions of young sex starved men out of work and instead of sorting that out and ensuring female infanticide isn't occuring so these men can have mates, you're trying to dictate terms to Pakistan? Would Pakistan want to give favourable terms to a state who can't even look after it's own? Wanna shoot for the moon but treats 45 percent of its people like baboons.


Now we know why you really want access to Afghanistan and central Asia, it's the light skinned DNA which those sex starved angry young men thirst after , why do they hate themselves and their bhagwan given melanin so much? Here I am trying to help a mate out, and instead of taking my honest impartial advice you turn full Bhakht and play the man and not ball. Just because you can't find a female partner is no reason to be abusive online.

Now that's the exact language of the "frustrated" people you just mentioned in your post. Based on your generelization, it appears your head has been under a rock for a while spiting at everything u can't do or achieve. Now if you bring that head up for a bit, here's the logic again. Let's hope you get it this time. India is NOT asking for talks. It's Pakistan. Considering this and the inequality in prosperity, clout and necessity, India is in a position to demand because they already have the important part of Kashmir that Pak covets. Now if you can't understand this logic, go back to being under the rock.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Reimagine these meetings with India being an economy of the 1980s

 

[Mueez]

Reimagine these meetings with India being an economy of the 1980s

And reimagine these meeting with Pakistan being an economy of the 1970s.

 

[PakLFC]

Ultimately the issue will be sorted by an Indo-Pak war. If talking was to do it would have been resolved ages back.

 

[Napa]

Ultimately the issue will be sorted by an Indo-Pak war. If talking was to do it would have been resolved ages back.

3 wars starting from 1965 haven't changed the status quo either.

 

[PakLFC]

3 wars starting from 1965 haven't changed the status quo either.

The fourth one will decide it. The 1948 one did give Pak almost half of Kashmir.

 

[Napa]

The fourth one will decide it. The 1948 one did give Pak almost half of Kashmir.

When the 1948 War started, Indian troops were not involved. Only after Hari Singh signed the an Instrument of Accession to India did the Indian troops intervene.

At the beginning of the war, no part of Kashmir was part of India. At the end of the war, 2/3 of Kashmir was part of India.

1/3 of Kashmir went to Pakistan, 2/3 to India. You can look at it as Pakistan having gained 1/3, or not having been able to get 2/3 of what they claimed was rightfully theirs.

According to Wikipedia "The result of the war was inconclusive. However, most neutral assessments agree that India was the victor of the war as it was able to successfully defend[31] about two-thirds of the Kashmir including Kashmir Valley, Jammu and Ladakh."

If you think Wikipedia is wrong, you should go change it, and if you provide enough reliable sources your edits will not be challenged.

As for Kashmir being wrested from India in a 4th war, what can I say? Delusions die hard.
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] [MENTION=134505]rhony[/MENTION]

 

[rhony]

When the 1948 War started, Indian troops were not involved. Only after Hari Singh signed the an Instrument of Accession to India did the Indian troops intervene.

At the beginning of the war, no part of Kashmir was part of India. At the end of the war, 2/3 of Kashmir was part of India.

1/3 of Kashmir went to Pakistan, 2/3 to India. You can look at it as Pakistan having gained 1/3, or not having been able to get 2/3 of what they claimed was rightfully theirs.

According to Wikipedia "The result of the war was inconclusive. However, most neutral assessments agree that India was the victor of the war as it was able to successfully defend[31] about two-thirds of the Kashmir including Kashmir Valley, Jammu and Ladakh."

If you think Wikipedia is wrong, you should go change it, and if you provide enough reliable sources your edits will not be challenged.

As for Kashmir being wrested from India in a 4th war, what can I say? Delusions die hard.
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] [MENTION=134505]rhony[/MENTION]

It's the 1971 war the Pak army can't forget. They still can't. They came close in 90s with Khalistan and Kashmir but India managed to defeat them again. They see an opportunity now again in Kashmir. They have a match in Modi that will see eye to eye and do more. He knows the moment the army kills a bunch of people, he will lose the narrative. The curfiew is frustrating Pak. There is tension, there is suspense. Everything now hangs on Kashmiris violently reacting to this and getting killed. Pak's counting on it. This could be their last opportunity. They know for a fact that they can't win a conventional war. They know that nuclear war is just a joke and nobody will every wage it. They know India is economically and politically much stronger than in 90s. It is their survival. They need that 20 to 25 percent of that budget. For that they need Kashmiris dying.

 

[rhony]

To put this into perspective, compare India in late 80s, 90s and Pak now. India was it's weakest then. Internationally USSR was dead and the only super power USA aligned with Pak. Politically India had very weak leadership with a bunch of PMs with each focussing on something and none on Kashmir. People in the rest of India didn't care about Pandits being massacred as they were struggling to make ends meet. India had just a few billion in forex reserves. Punjab and Northeast were burning along with Naxal mayhem. Pak took advantage of that. Now, Pakistan is at it's weakest with not much international support, economically weak, political leadership is in jails and army is controlling the narrative. India took advantage of the situation. How this will go forward, no one knows. Curfew has to be lifted soon. Information warfare can only go on until the reality comes to the fore. Both countries have put their best foot forward so far and the tact or emotion of Kashmiris will decide the fate of this conflict. Ironically, Kashmiris actually are the ones that will decide their future.

 

[Syed1]

You've got your head in the sand like an ostrich, much like the rest of India, this is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode, you've got a ridiculous gender ratio, millions of young sex starved men out of work and instead of sorting that out and ensuring female infanticide isn't occuring so these men can have mates, you're trying to dictate terms to Pakistan? Would Pakistan want to give favourable terms to a state who can't even look after it's own? Wanna shoot for the moon but treats 45 percent of its people like baboons.


Now we know why you really want access to Afghanistan and central Asia, it's the light skinned DNA which those sex starved angry young men thirst after , why do they hate themselves and their bhagwan given melanin so much? Here I am trying to help a mate out, and instead of taking my honest impartial advice you turn full Bhakht and play the man and not ball. Just because you can't find a female partner is no reason to be abusive online.

Let him be, he is a typical Indian hindutva keyboard warrior. Giving sermons about shining India yet giving up his Indian citizenship so that he can continue living in America.

 

[rhony]

Let him be, he is a typical Indian hindutva keyboard warrior. Giving sermons about shining India yet giving up his Indian citizenship so that he can continue living in America.

Lol. So many factual inaccuracies from a Canadian warrior. C'mon man you can do better.

 

[daytrader]

you've got your head in the sand like an ostrich, much like the rest of india, this is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode, you've got a ridiculous gender ratio, millions of young sex starved men out of work and instead of sorting that out and ensuring female infanticide isn't occuring so these men can have mates, you're trying to dictate terms to pakistan? Would pakistan want to give favourable terms to a state who can't even look after it's own? Wanna shoot for the moon but treats 45 percent of its people like baboons.


Now we know why you really want access to afghanistan and central asia, it's the light skinned dna which those sex starved angry young men thirst after , why do they hate themselves and their bhagwan given melanin so much? Here i am trying to help a mate out, and instead of taking my honest impartial advice you turn full bhakht and play the man and not ball. Just because you can't find a female partner is no reason to be abusive online.

potw

 

[Napa]

To put this into perspective, compare India in late 80s, 90s and Pak now. India was it's weakest then. Internationally USSR was dead and the only super power USA aligned with Pak. Politically India had very weak leadership with a bunch of PMs with each focussing on something and none on Kashmir. People in the rest of India didn't care about Pandits being massacred as they were struggling to make ends meet. India had just a few billion in forex reserves. Punjab and Northeast were burning along with Naxal mayhem. Pak took advantage of that. Now, Pakistan is at it's weakest with not much international support, economically weak, political leadership is in jails and army is controlling the narrative. India took advantage of the situation. How this will go forward, no one knows. Curfew has to be lifted soon. Information warfare can only go on until the reality comes to the fore. Both countries have put their best foot forward so far and the tact or emotion of Kashmiris will decide the fate of this conflict. Ironically, Kashmiris actually are the ones that will decide their future.

Very true that late 1980s was when India was at its weakest. Pakistan was then a very valued US ally having been the base for the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Now the situation is entirely different, yet deluded people think that they can take Kashmir away from India by force. Not only is Pakistan bankrupt and the Indian economy booming, but look at the camaraderie between Modi and Trump when they met recently.

The ISI/Pakistani Army got too smart thinking that they could play both sides in Afghanistan, giving arms to the Haqqanis while getting money from the US. The world is however not stupid and if you lose your reputation for being trustworthy then you can't get it back.

 

[PakLFC]

When the 1948 War started, Indian troops were not involved. Only after Hari Singh signed the an Instrument of Accession to India did the Indian troops intervene.

At the beginning of the war, no part of Kashmir was part of India. At the end of the war, 2/3 of Kashmir was part of India.

1/3 of Kashmir went to Pakistan, 2/3 to India. You can look at it as Pakistan having gained 1/3, or not having been able to get 2/3 of what they claimed was rightfully theirs.

According to Wikipedia "The result of the war was inconclusive. However, most neutral assessments agree that India was the victor of the war as it was able to successfully defend[31] about two-thirds of the Kashmir including Kashmir Valley, Jammu and Ladakh."

If you think Wikipedia is wrong, you should go change it, and if you provide enough reliable sources your edits will not be challenged.

As for Kashmir being wrested from India in a 4th war, what can I say? Delusions die hard.
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] [MENTION=134505]rhony[/MENTION]

Point is that there was a war between the two in 1948. The thing is that India forced itself on the Kashmir valley, just ask the people. We still claim that the whole valley is rightfully ours so nothing has changed in that regard.

India with the much bigger army even back then had many advantages over the newly formed Pak but in reality today it is your soldiers who are being killed by the people, many I hear are also committing suicide. A victory is when you have secured the place and people have accepted being Indian which iis nowhere near the case in IoK.

Delusions? You have been slaves of the Moghuls and Brits for centuries. Your oldies said in the 1930's that the"Pakistan will be formed over our dead bodies" and they were right coz that is exactly what happened. Kashmir will also be liberated over the dead bodies of their offspring!

 

[mustang]

Point is that there was a war between the two in 1948. The thing is that India forced itself on the Kashmir valley, just ask the people. We still claim that the whole valley is rightfully ours so nothing has changed in that regard.

India with the much bigger army even back then had many advantages over the newly formed Pak but in reality today it is your soldiers who are being killed by the people, many I hear are also committing suicide. A victory is when you have secured the place and people have accepted being Indian which iis nowhere near the case in IoK.

Delusions? You have been slaves of the Moghuls and Brits for centuries. Your oldies said in the 1930's that the"Pakistan will be formed over our dead bodies" and they were right coz that is exactly what happened. Kashmir will also be liberated over the dead bodies of their offspring!

1. Your ancestors were also the slaves of the British and Pakistan is now a borderline economic slave of the Arabs. My ancestors were slaves of the British and the Spanish. All of our ancestors were slaves of someone, so your point?

2. Constant dwelling on the past only reinforces that the present is weak and hence one is going back to the glory of the past. More pertinent would be to look at situation at hand, current geopolitical realities, and feasible solutions. Just a general comment.

3. "over the dead bodies of their offspring!" - Wishing death upon people is never a classy move.

4. Your oldies said in the 1930's that the"Pakistan will be formed over our dead bodies" -- This is probably valid from what I read but probably only for a minority. How many Indians actually felt they are willing to die to prevent creation of Pakistan even back in 1940s? I'm happy to stand corrected here. People with such an extreme mindset were a minority back then from what I read and now significant majority of Indians are actually happy about partition.

 

[PakLFC]

1. Your ancestors were also the slaves of the British and Pakistan is now a borderline economic slave of the Arabs. My ancestors were slaves of the British and the Spanish. All of our ancestors were slaves of someone, so your point?

2. Constant dwelling on the past only reinforces that the present is weak and hence one is going back to the glory of the past. More pertinent would be to look at situation at hand, current geopolitical realities, and feasible solutions. Just a general comment.

3. "over the dead bodies of their offspring!" - Wishing death upon people is never a classy move.

4. Your oldies said in the 1930's that the"Pakistan will be formed over our dead bodies" -- This is probably valid from what I read but probably only for a minority. How many Indians actually felt they are willing to die to prevent creation of Pakistan even back in 1940s? I'm happy to stand corrected here. People with such an extreme mindset were a minority back then from what I read and now significant majority of Indians are actually happy about partition.

Yeah just like you are slaves of the Israel and cultural slaves of the west trying to mimic them at everything hoping you will become "****'s" and your dump be seen as a fully developed country in the process. We all know how you are called "Rapistan" and the incredible poverty their with some 400 million living on streets. We were slaves of the Brits but not the Moghuls who ruled your Bharat Mata for 800 years! You've only been "free" since 1947 yet you folk talk as if you are king's of the world! This is the current situation that your country has the aforementioned problems and highest number of insurgencies as well.

Well classy or classless we are gonna have to kill your people to liberate IoK just like you are doing exactly that. Don't complain when the same is done to your people neither neither tell me that your soldiers are saints doing only good in the said region. It is all over the web with video's being smuggled out by the people no matter how much you try to hide it.

I have not counted how many were against the creation of Pakistan! What I know is that officially some 5 million died during "independence"...I don't believe the the naturally being from the majority community of Hindu's. Willingly or unwillingly riots do not recognise who is what. Well if your people were so happy about partition then all the crazies in your country will not be on about wanting to create "Akhand Bharat" that not only includes Pakistan but Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Afghanistan. Some of these fools even see the Arab world as being part off it!

 

[PakLFC]

I meant I don't believe in the offensive word "partition" at all. It was independence!

 

[Napa]

Point is that there was a war between the two in 1948. The thing is that India forced itself on the Kashmir valley, just ask the people. We still claim that the whole valley is rightfully ours so nothing has changed in that regard.

India with the much bigger army even back then had many advantages over the newly formed Pak but in reality today it is your soldiers who are being killed by the people, many I hear are also committing suicide. A victory is when you have secured the place and people have accepted being Indian which iis nowhere near the case in IoK.

Delusions? You have been slaves of the Moghuls and Brits for centuries. Your oldies said in the 1930's that the"Pakistan will be formed over our dead bodies" and they were right coz that is exactly what happened. Kashmir will also be liberated over the dead bodies of their offspring!

When presented with facts, instead of staying on topic you offer excuses such as "much bigger army even back then". The discussion was about whether India lost in 1948, it is immaterial who had the bigger or smaller army.

Rest of your post has been answered well by [MENTION=144392]mustang[/MENTION].

Time for me to quit this thread... peace!

 

[rhony]

Yeah just like you are slaves of the Israel and cultural slaves of the west trying to mimic them at everything hoping you will become "****'s" and your dump be seen as a fully developed country in the process. We all know how you are called "Rapistan" and the incredible poverty their with some 400 million living on streets. We were slaves of the Brits but not the Moghuls who ruled your Bharat Mata for 800 years! You've only been "free" since 1947 yet you folk talk as if you are king's of the world! This is the current situation that your country has the aforementioned problems and highest number of insurgencies as well.

Well classy or classless we are gonna have to kill your people to liberate IoK just like you are doing exactly that. Don't complain when the same is done to your people neither neither tell me that your soldiers are saints doing only good in the said region. It is all over the web with video's being smuggled out by the people no matter how much you try to hide it.

I have not counted how many were against the creation of Pakistan! What I know is that officially some 5 million died during "independence"...I don't believe the the naturally being from the majority community of Hindu's. Willingly or unwillingly riots do not recognise who is what. Well if your people were so happy about partition then all the crazies in your country will not be on about wanting to create "Akhand Bharat" that not only includes Pakistan but Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Afghanistan. Some of these fools even see the Arab world as being part off it!

Nobody is gonna kill and nobody is going to liberate anybody. People can shoot videos though and nobody will care because nobody can do anything about it. GOI has been very careful with the kills as it will ruin the entire agenda.

As far as akhand Bharat or ghazwe hind goes, they are cuckoo stories told by oldies before they die of diabetes. Don't believe them. Nobody in India wants to be in Pakistan and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. Except a few lashkars who choose India to die and an odd Kulbhushan to rot in prison.

 

[kk1992]

When presented with facts, instead of staying on topic you offer excuses such as "much bigger army even back then". The discussion was about whether India lost in 1948, it is immaterial who had the bigger or smaller army.

Rest of your post has been answered well by [MENTION=144392]mustang[/MENTION].

Time for me to quit this thread... peace!

I've notice this with you whenever someone pin you with facts and counter your argument with authentic and correct facts, you turn around and run away while claiming you are better than everyone, why?

 

[PakLFC]

When presented with facts, instead of staying on topic you offer excuses such as "much bigger army even back then". The discussion was about whether India lost in 1948, it is immaterial who had the bigger or smaller army.

Rest of your post has been answered well by [MENTION=144392]mustang[/MENTION].

Time for me to quit this thread... peace!

This is a FACT that India has always had an Indian army or do you dispute it? I have answered all Indians back so don't go too far.

 

[PakLFC]

Nobody is gonna kill and nobody is going to liberate anybody. People can shoot videos though and nobody will care because nobody can do anything about it. GOI has been very careful with the kills as it will ruin the entire agenda.

As far as akhand Bharat or ghazwe hind goes, they are cuckoo stories told by oldies before they die of diabetes. Don't believe them. Nobody in India wants to be in Pakistan and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. Except a few lashkars who choose India to die and an odd Kulbhushan to rot in prison.

People are being killed in IoK as I speak! Yes IoK will eventually be liberated there is no doubt about it but it won't be through UN or any hypocritical organisation. Well you see the freedom fighters are already killing your soldiers as well. Your comment that "nobody can do anything about it" meaning that we should just sit back and let the Indian army do as they want is unacceptable to Pakistan and it's people.

The ruling RSS fools openly propagate their "Akhand Bharat" stories not that I believe in them but mentioned it to expose their stupidity. They want to conquer Muslim lands when the Muslim community outnumbers them almost two to one on earth. There are millions in India who want Pak firstly as they see it as some sort of revenge and secondly because it it's strategic location. Much easier to reach Afghanistan and Central Asia from Pak.

 

[Napa]

This is a FACT that India has always had an Indian army or do you dispute it? I have answered all Indians back so don't go too far.

Okay, I will give it one more try in good faith.

Of course India has always had an Indian Army. However, when Pakistanis captured 1/3 of Kashmir, Kashmir was not a part of India. The Kashmiri king realized that he could not defend against Pakistan, so he signed the "Instrument of Accession to India" making Kashmir part of India. After Kashmir became part of India, India has not lost any Kashmiri territory to Pakistan.

The tribals (accompanied by Pakistani soldiers in civvies) probably would have taken Srinagar before the Indian troops arrived, but were "delayed" in Barmulla.

Aastair Lamb wrote in Incomplete Partition, Roxford 1997, pp. 186–187:

The (tribal) leaders completely lost control over their men, an orgy of killing was the result. This was certainly the case at St Joseph's College, Convent and Hospital, the site of what was to become one of the most publicised incidents of the entire Kashmir conflict. Here nuns, priests and congregation, including patients in the hospital, were slaughtered; and at the same time a small number of Europeans, notably Lt. Colonel D.O. Dykes and his wife, an Englishwoman preparing to leave the hospital that day with her new-born baby, Mother Teresalina, a twenty-nine-year-old Spanish nun who had been in Baramulla only a few weeks, as well as Mother Aldertrude, the Assistant Mother Superior, and one Mr Jose Barretto, husband of the doctor, met their deaths at tribal hands.[9]

Charles Chevenix Trench wrote in The Frontier Scouts (1985):

In October 1947... tribal lashkars hastened in lorries – undoubtedly with official logistic support – into Kashmir... at least one British Officer, Harvey-Kelly took part in the campaign. It seemed that nothing could stop these hordes of tribesmen taking Srinagar with its vital airfield. Indeed nothing did, but their own greed. The Mahsuds in particular stopped to loot, rape and murder; Indian troops were flown in and the lashkars pushed out of the Vale of Kashmir into the mountains. The Mahsuds returned home in a savage mood, having muffed an easy chance, lost the loot of Srinagar and made fools of themselves.

Sam Manekshaw (later a field marshal) was a colonel in the Directorate of Military Operations who went to Srinagar with V. P. Menon to assess the situation on 26 October 1947. He later told in an interview:[10]

Fortunately for Kashmir, the tribals were busy raiding, raping all along. In Baramulla they killed Colonel D.O.T. Dykes. Dykes and I were of the same seniority. We did our first year's attachment with the Royal Scots in Lahore, way back in 1934-5. Tom went to the Sikh regiment. I went to the Frontier Force regiment. We'd lost contact with each other. He'd become a lieutenant colonel. I'd become a full colonel. Tom and his wife were holidaying in Baramulla when the tribesmen killed them.

Tom Cooper of the Air Combat Information Group wrote, "The Pathans appeared foremost interested in looting, killing, ransacking and other crimes against the inhabitants instead of a serious military action."[11]

According to Mohammad Akbar Khan (Colonel, Pakistan army, who was promoted as Brigadier and made in charge of sending the tribals to Kashmir and who had been a contemporary of Col. Dykes at Royal Military College, Sandhurst) in his War for Kashmir in 1947, "The uncouth raiders delayed in Baramulla for two (whole) days for some unknown reason."[12]
Biju Patnaik (later Chief Minister of Odisha) piloted the first plane to land at Srinagar airport that morning. He brought 17 soldiers from the 1st Sikh Regiment, commanded by Lt. Col. Dewan Ranjit Rai. The pilot flew low over the airstrip twice to ensure that no raiders were around. Instructions from Prime Minister Nehru’s office were clear: If the airport was taken over by the enemy, they were not to land. Taking a full circle, the DC-3 flew at ground level. Soldiers peered from the aircraft and found the airstrip empty. The raiders were too busy distributing the war booty among themselves in Baramulla.

Lt. Col. Dewan Ranjit Rai immediately moved with his small platoon towards Baramulla hoping to stop the tribal raiders at the mouth of the funnel which opens 5 km east of Baramula into a wide valley. He led his men from the front and died of bullet wound the same day, 27 October 1947, at Patan but delayed the raiders for a day. As more Indian troops flew into Srinagar the next day, they started pushing the raiders back.[13] It took two weeks for the Indian army to evict the raiders (who had been joined by Pakistani regulars and were well-entrenched) from Baramulla on 9 November 1947.

Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah spoke to the UN Security Council on 5 February 1948: "The raiders came to our land, massacred thousands of people — mostly Hindus and Sikhs, but Muslims, too — abducted thousands of girls, Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims alike, looted our property and almost reached the gates of our summer capital, Srinagar."[14]

Robert Trumbull, New York Times, 10 Nov 1947; reporting from Baramulla [UN doc # S/PV.762/Add.1/Annex 1/No. 26]:

The raid of the convent is narrated in even gory details by Father Shanks, one of the fortunate survivors and the anonymous 'witnesses' in the following report.

"The tribesmen - great, wild, black beasts they were - came shooting their way down from the hills on both sides of the town. They climbed over the hospital walls from all sides. The first group burst into a ward firing at the patients. A 20 year old Indian nurse, Philomena, tried to protect a Muslim patient whose baby had just been born. She was shot dead first. The Patient was next. Mother Superior Aldetude rushed into the ward, knelt over Philomena and was at once attacked and robbed. The Assistant Mother, Teresalina, saw a tribesman point a rifle at Mother Aldetrude and jumped in front of her. A bullet went through Teresalina's heart. At the moment Colonel Dykes, who had assured us we would not be attacked, raced from his room a few yards along the terrace to get the Mother Superior out of danger, shouting at the tribesmen as he ran. But the Mother Superior fell shot, and Colonel Dykes collapsed beside her with a bullet in the stomach. Mrs Dykes ran from her husband's room to help him. She too was shot dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baramulla#October_1947

If this is the victory of Pakistan over India that you are proud of?

Of course, as soon as they faced proper Indian soldiers, the tribesmen were routed from Baramulla and driven back. So after India intervened, Pakistan actually lost rather than gained territory.

 

[Napa]

I've notice this with you whenever someone pin you with facts and counter your argument with authentic and correct facts, you turn around and run away while claiming you are better than everyone, why?

One can argue forever if one is not constrained by facts.

If someone says the sun rises on the West and the color of leaves is the same as the sky, you can point out to the real world to show that's not true. However the person can then produce a document saying the Earth is flat and the Moon landing was faked. It can go on forever, so at some point one should quit.

Peace!

 

[kk1992]

One can argue forever if one is not constrained by facts.

If someone says the sun rises on the West and the color of leaves is the same as the sky, you can point out to the real world to show that's not true. However the person can then produce a document saying the Earth is flat and the Moon landing was faked. It can go on forever, so at some point one should quit.

Peace!

What?

Sky, moon, sun?

When presented facts that does not support your argument then you tend to book out there.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Robert Trumbull, New York Times, 10 Nov 1947; reporting from Baramulla [UN doc # S/PV.762/Add.1/Annex 1/No. 26]:

The raid of the convent is narrated in even gory details by Father Shanks, one of the fortunate survivors and the anonymous 'witnesses' in the following report.

"The tribesmen - great, wild, black beasts they were - came shooting their way down from the hills on both sides of the town. They climbed over the hospital walls from all sides. The first group burst into a ward firing at the patients. A 20 year old Indian nurse, Philomena, tried to protect a Muslim patient whose baby had just been born. She was shot dead first. The Patient was next. Mother Superior Aldetude rushed into the ward, knelt over Philomena and was at once attacked and robbed. The Assistant Mother, Teresalina, saw a tribesman point a rifle at Mother Aldetrude and jumped in front of her. A bullet went through Teresalina's heart. At the moment Colonel Dykes, who had assured us we would not be attacked, raced from his room a few yards along the terrace to get the Mother Superior out of danger, shouting at the tribesmen as he ran. But the Mother Superior fell shot, and Colonel Dykes collapsed beside her with a bullet in the stomach. Mrs Dykes ran from her husband's room to help him. She too was shot dead..

This passage is nauseating. This is how Pakistan came to be in control of PoK in 1947 .. rushing towards Srinagar massacring everything that came in their path, even the missionaries and nuns.

Read and weep.

 

[rhony]

People are being killed in IoK as I speak! Yes IoK will eventually be liberated there is no doubt about it but it won't be through UN or any hypocritical organisation. Well you see the freedom fighters are already killing your soldiers as well. Your comment that "nobody can do anything about it" meaning that we should just sit back and let the Indian army do as they want is unacceptable to Pakistan and it's people.

The ruling RSS fools openly propagate their "Akhand Bharat" stories not that I believe in them but mentioned it to expose their stupidity. They want to conquer Muslim lands when the Muslim community outnumbers them almost two to one on earth. There are millions in India who want Pak firstly as they see it as some sort of revenge and secondly because it it's strategic location. Much easier to reach Afghanistan and Central Asia from Pak.

RSS fools dreaming about Akhand Bharat are just those. Fools. Majority India wants to sit tight and go about their lives. Don't think anybody dreams about Occupying Pakistan. Central Asia and Afghanistan access will be nice but not at the cost of death and fights everyday. Kashmir is different as these people have been living under Indian rule for 70 years already. In 24 days, there have been reports of pellet guns etc but not.more than 3 or 4 deaths. Would have been a lot more if there was no curfew. Things will normalize eventually as people won't notice the difference but it remains to be seen how it will be in the interim

 

[PakLFC]

Okay, I will give it one more try in good faith.

Of course India has always had an Indian Army. However, when Pakistanis captured 1/3 of Kashmir, Kashmir was not a part of India. The Kashmiri king realized that he could not defend against Pakistan, so he signed the "Instrument of Accession to India" making Kashmir part of India. After Kashmir became part of India, India has not lost any Kashmiri territory to Pakistan.

The tribals (accompanied by Pakistani soldiers in civvies) probably would have taken Srinagar before the Indian troops arrived, but were "delayed" in Barmulla.



If this is the victory of Pakistan over India that you are proud of?

Of course, as soon as they faced proper Indian soldiers, the tribesmen were routed from Baramulla and driven back. So after India intervened, Pakistan actually lost rather than gained territory.

Wikipeadia is not a source I trust neither do I read a 100 lines. I can provide many reports that contract wikipedia! The point is that Pakistan took half of Kashmir despite being much smaller now what part of this do you not understand? The Kashmir India occupied was not a part of Pak either neither did the people agree to join you. I am proud that we broke your India in 1947, very proud! By the way India has not shown Pak any document to prove anyone signed anything at all! Nehru famously said the people of Kashmir will decide their own future, remember?? As for surrendering we all know how India got mauled in Kargil don't we?? Our tribesmen are not professional soldiers like your ones who regularly make fool of themselves producing various sorts of videos.

 

[PakLFC]

RSS fools dreaming about Akhand Bharat are just those. Fools. Majority India wants to sit tight and go about their lives. Don't think anybody dreams about Occupying Pakistan. Central Asia and Afghanistan access will be nice but not at the cost of death and fights everyday. Kashmir is different as these people have been living under Indian rule for 70 years already. In 24 days, there have been reports of pellet guns etc but not.more than 3 or 4 deaths. Would have been a lot more if there was no curfew. Things will normalize eventually as people won't notice the difference but it remains to be seen how it will be in the interim

RSS rules India and came in to power through a democratic election. This means that most of India supports the RSS who openly speak of capturing half the world or something!! Forget it. you will never have direct access to Afghanistan and Central Asia ulness you offer us something in return of equal value. I can't think of anything at all here. What? You must have been watching some Indian channel thinking only a few have died over the weeks in IoK! Hundreds most likely have died with many more to follow. If India is on the right side then lift the curfew and show the world what is happening. Nothing is gonna normalise now, never!

 

[rhony]

RSS rules India and came in to power through a democratic election. This means that most of India supports the RSS who openly speak of capturing half the world or something!! Forget it. you will never have direct access to Afghanistan and Central Asia ulness you offer us something in return of equal value. I can't think of anything at all here. What? You must have been watching some Indian channel thinking only a few have died over the weeks in IoK! Hundreds most likely have died with many more to follow. If India is on the right side then lift the curfew and show the world what is happening. Nothing is gonna normalise now, never!

Modi won on national security agenda. Not all Indians are Hindus and not all Hindus hate muslims. Even those that do, sit tight and learned to coexist. Majority are against Pakistan and I'm sure it's similar in Pakistan where anti India sentient is prevelant. Also note that BJP lost a few state elections which shows RSS is not the top dog at a regional level but still won the national elections in those states. That's partly because of weak rival parties at the Center. Kashmir is more important than Afghan access at this point. India already lost investments because of Taliban's rise. Nobody knows how many exactly died in Kashmir. Even BBC and other news agencies reported torture but not many deaths. Atleast not more than a handful. Even your comment "hundreds most likely died" is a speculation. India will lift the curfew eventually. They will have to. But remember, there are no iterations now. It's one and done. This is the final resolution. So they are taking some time.

 

[PakLFC]

Modi won on national security agenda. Not all Indians are Hindus and not all Hindus hate muslims. Even those that do, sit tight and learned to coexist. Majority are against Pakistan and I'm sure it's similar in Pakistan where anti India sentient is prevelant. Also note that BJP lost a few state elections which shows RSS is not the top dog at a regional level but still won the national elections in those states. That's partly because of weak rival parties at the Center. Kashmir is more important than Afghan access at this point. India already lost investments because of Taliban's rise. Nobody knows how many exactly died in Kashmir. Even BBC and other news agencies reported torture but not many deaths. Atleast not more than a handful. Even your comment "hundreds most likely died" is a speculation. India will lift the curfew eventually. They will have to. But remember, there are no iterations now. It's one and done. This is the final resolution. So they are taking some time.

By national security you meaning hating on Muslims which is why he won. Actually as General Hameed Gul said it is good for Pak that a man like Modi now rules India. This is what your Muslim's deserve and it also again confirms Quaid's two nation theory. All this killing of your Muslims over one reason or another is not my idea of co-existence, the reports we see are probably just the tip of the iceberg with many going unreported. Most RSS type see no difference between an Indian Muslim and a Pakistani, two them both are two sides of the same coin. What I see is that most Indian's voted for RSS hence they are in power, never mind the states where they did not get the majority. You mean Indian media does not tell how many died in Kashmir coz they turn a blind eye choosing to ignore all the victim, the never ending curfew is ample evidence off this. Thousands are in custody that much is certain from which hundreds must have died. lift the curfew then we will all know. This is no "final resolution" at all....not by a long shot! A change in riles written in ink makes no difference when Pakistan and the Kashmiris have not changed their opinion. By the way we are kicking you out of Afghanistan as well then the Afghan Taliban will be heading towards IoK. It hasn't even started yet!

 

[Romali_rotti]

By national security you meaning hating on Muslims which is why he won. Actually as General Hameed Gul said it is good for Pak that a man like Modi now rules India. This is what your Muslim's deserve and it also again confirms Quaid's two nation theory. All this killing of your Muslims over one reason or another is not my idea of co-existence, the reports we see are probably just the tip of the iceberg with many going unreported. Most RSS type see no difference between an Indian Muslim and a Pakistani, two them both are two sides of the same coin. What I see is that most Indian's voted for RSS hence they are in power, never mind the states where they did not get the majority. You mean Indian media does not tell how many died in Kashmir coz they turn a blind eye choosing to ignore all the victim, the never ending curfew is ample evidence off this. Thousands are in custody that much is certain from which hundreds must have died. lift the curfew then we will all know. This is no "final resolution" at all....not by a long shot! A change in riles written in ink makes no difference when Pakistan and the Kashmiris have not changed their opinion. By the way we are kicking you out of Afghanistan as well then the Afghan Taliban will be heading towards IoK. It hasn't even started yet!

Why does some posters here say you are Indian...

 

[PakLFC]

Why does some posters here say you are Indian...

Coz they are deluded. When I criticise Pak for whatever reason they call me out as an Indian

 

[rhony]

By national security you meaning hating on Muslims which is why he won. Actually as General Hameed Gul said it is good for Pak that a man like Modi now rules India. This is what your Muslim's deserve and it also again confirms Quaid's two nation theory. All this killing of your Muslims over one reason or another is not my idea of co-existence, the reports we see are probably just the tip of the iceberg with many going unreported. Most RSS type see no difference between an Indian Muslim and a Pakistani, two them both are two sides of the same coin. What I see is that most Indian's voted for RSS hence they are in power, never mind the states where they did not get the majority. You mean Indian media does not tell how many died in Kashmir coz they turn a blind eye choosing to ignore all the victim, the never ending curfew is ample evidence off this. Thousands are in custody that much is certain from which hundreds must have died. lift the curfew then we will all know. This is no "final resolution" at all....not by a long shot! A change in riles written in ink makes no difference when Pakistan and the Kashmiris have not changed their opinion. By the way we are kicking you out of Afghanistan as well then the Afghan Taliban will be heading towards IoK. It hasn't even started yet!

You are watching a lot of Pak news channels it appears. Indian channels similarly are hammering the Indian rhetoric. The problem with Zaid Hamid type rhetoric is it's riddled with hyperboles and wishful thinking. Afghan Taliban ain't gonna get caves in Kashmir. People assume that they defeated the USA and hence are an unbeatable force. It's partly true and conditional. The conditions being, the war should be in the caves of AFG where no human cares to stay long enough. Those medieval morons will be mince meat out in the open. There is a reason why 800k Indian soldiers are in Kashmir. It's not just for the stone pelters. India ain't gonna make the same mistake as in 90s when they watched all hell break loose in Kashmir. This time it will be a systematic breakdown of Kashmiri resistance and a ruthless massacre of infiltrators. Also don't forget that Taliban are paid stooges. Throw them a few thousand dollars and they will infiltrate some other party. As somebody said, dont expect the snakes in your backyard to bite your neighbor always. As far as Hamid Gul and others are concerned, he's a small fish that was unnecessarily given a huge role in ruining the Asian landscape. ISI is the sole reason why we have this Jihadi mess and mind you, Pakistan has been a victim as well. An organization that was caught clueless with Laden raid in Abottabad, that had no clue that Indians would go for air strikes beyond LOC, that had absolutely no idea about 370 repeal doesn't deserve to be called a top spy ring. Times have changed and dismantling has started.

 

[PakLFC]

You are watching a lot of Pak news channels it appears. Indian channels similarly are hammering the Indian rhetoric. The problem with Zaid Hamid type rhetoric is it's riddled with hyperboles and wishful thinking. Afghan Taliban ain't gonna get caves in Kashmir. People assume that they defeated the USA and hence are an unbeatable force. It's partly true and conditional. The conditions being, the war should be in the caves of AFG where no human cares to stay long enough. Those medieval morons will be mince meat out in the open. There is a reason why 800k Indian soldiers are in Kashmir. It's not just for the stone pelters. India ain't gonna make the same mistake as in 90s when they watched all hell break loose in Kashmir. This time it will be a systematic breakdown of Kashmiri resistance and a ruthless massacre of infiltrators. Also don't forget that Taliban are paid stooges. Throw them a few thousand dollars and they will infiltrate some other party. As somebody said, dont expect the snakes in your backyard to bite your neighbor always. As far as Hamid Gul and others are concerned, he's a small fish that was unnecessarily given a huge role in ruining the Asian landscape. ISI is the sole reason why we have this Jihadi mess and mind you, Pakistan has been a victim as well. An organization that was caught clueless with Laden raid in Abottabad, that had no clue that Indians would go for air strikes beyond LOC, that had absolutely no idea about 370 repeal doesn't deserve to be called a top spy ring. Times have changed and dismantling has started.

No. My sources of information are always independent news websites that give all sides of the story. Zaid is not someone I look up to as anything even though sometimes he is right...mostly he is wrong and incredibly embarrassing as well. His obsession with Allama Iqbal is even more unsettling for an intelligent man like me.

The Taliban will not be alone in IoK like they are in Afghanistan, The Kashmiri people will be with them and most importantly the Pak army and ISI as well. They will not be the main fighting machine there rather back up to the Pak army. They do not have the organisational skills of a professional fighting unit yet can not be dismissed so easily either. When India can not even handle the stone throwers at least these guys know how to use a Kalashnikov no doubt about that. As if all hell has not already broken loose in IoK that India isn't gonna make the same mistake again, what we have is most of your army gathered in one place oppressing millions. If India is so sure of being on the side of truth then lift the curfew then we will see what happens.

Your media is not telling the world how many of your soldiers are being dispatched to hell every day by the locals freedom fighters. Truth is India is losing soldiers every day as well and will continue to do so. This breakdown of resistance only exists in your mind coz these Kashmiris having lost the fear of death are now desperate people who will become suicide bombers if need be, that is the stage this whole thing has got to now. The Afghan Taliban are not suicide being paid but are patriots fighting for their land, they are not willing to compromise on anything at all until every last American leaves their country.

ISI are patriots and the reason Pak has not become like Iraq or Syria. That was the task to turn Pak in to a war zone to please the Americans and Zionists. If CIA did not know about 9/111 then no one can point the finger at the ISI for not knowing about Laden although I feel they just played dumb after he was supposedly found then buried at sea!! I am not buying that story for a minute by the way! In a hostile place like the subcontinent with more agencies then people it is survival of the fittest. With a hostile neighbour like India on one side and war in Afghanistan being pacifist is not a choice. India got battered in the recent Abhinandan episode nice and hard so I don't know what you are on about here! RAW couldn't stop 9/11, Pathankot, Uri and Pulwama either to name a few hammerings India has taken over the years. Easy to be sitting behind a laptop and telling the world who are and are not top spy organisations in the world so leave it to the experts.

 

[PakLFC]

I meant RAW could not stop 26/11 either. It is not ISI's job to worry about the 370 revoked law neither do they have any control over it.

 

[rhony]

I meant RAW could not stop 26/11 either. It is not ISI's job to worry about the 370 revoked law neither do they have any control over it.

There is no comparison. RAW doesn't claim to be a top spy ring and they are not. RAW doesn't dictate national policy unlike ISI. Go through history and see how ISIs move of Jihadi grooming has ruined the entire subcontinent and probably middle East as well.

 

[rhony]

No. My sources of information are always independent news websites that give all sides of the story. Zaid is not someone I look up to as anything even though sometimes he is right...mostly he is wrong and incredibly embarrassing as well. His obsession with Allama Iqbal is even more unsettling for an intelligent man like me.

The Taliban will not be alone in IoK like they are in Afghanistan, The Kashmiri people will be with them and most importantly the Pak army and ISI as well. They will not be the main fighting machine there rather back up to the Pak army. They do not have the organisational skills of a professional fighting unit yet can not be dismissed so easily either. When India can not even handle the stone throwers at least these guys know how to use a Kalashnikov no doubt about that. As if all hell has not already broken loose in IoK that India isn't gonna make the same mistake again, what we have is most of your army gathered in one place oppressing millions. If India is so sure of being on the side of truth then lift the curfew then we will see what happens.

Your media is not telling the world how many of your soldiers are being dispatched to hell every day by the locals freedom fighters. Truth is India is losing soldiers every day as well and will continue to do so. This breakdown of resistance only exists in your mind coz these Kashmiris having lost the fear of death are now desperate people who will become suicide bombers if need be, that is the stage this whole thing has got to now. The Afghan Taliban are not suicide being paid but are patriots fighting for their land, they are not willing to compromise on anything at all until every last American leaves their country.

ISI are patriots and the reason Pak has not become like Iraq or Syria. That was the task to turn Pak in to a war zone to please the Americans and Zionists. If CIA did not know about 9/111 then no one can point the finger at the ISI for not knowing about Laden although I feel they just played dumb after he was supposedly found then buried at sea!! I am not buying that story for a minute by the way! In a hostile place like the subcontinent with more agencies then people it is survival of the fittest. With a hostile neighbour like India on one side and war in Afghanistan being pacifist is not a choice. India got battered in the recent Abhinandan episode nice and hard so I don't know what you are on about here! RAW couldn't stop 9/11, Pathankot, Uri and Pulwama either to name a few hammerings India has taken over the years. Easy to be sitting behind a laptop and telling the world who are and are not top spy organisations in the world so leave it to the experts.

Fair points. However you are overestimating the ability of Kashmiris. The more terrorists there are the easier it is to target. This is not the same as pushing weapons into a defenseless Afghanistan. It's a very subtle operation as a detection of even a minute Pakistani involvement in Jihadi operations in Kashmir will lead to tightening of FATF. A few AK47s are no match to army. The death of soldiers is some concocted story. Indian media would have shouted from the rooftops if a soldier is dead as it would lend credibility to a curfew if soldiers are being killed. Kashmiris won't be able to claim innocence or oppression. See how that works? The issue is in a few districts in Kashmir and if it goes out of hand they will be walled in, squeezed further and further. This 30 day curfew helped India in weeding out bad elements, dismantle the seperatist movement including weaponry.

 

[PakLFC]

There is no comparison. RAW doesn't claim to be a top spy ring and they are not. RAW doesn't dictate national policy unlike ISI. Go through history and see how ISIs move of Jihadi grooming has ruined the entire subcontinent and probably middle East as well.

How do you know the ISI dictates anything?. There are many attacks in Pak that are stopped by the ISI everyday, we only hear of the ones that get through. The ISI are the reason that bomb blasts have greatly reduced in Pak to the point of being nil. If our governments over the years were not sellouts then the ISI would not meddle in politics so blame Nawaz, Mush and Sharif. ISI do not talk themselves up, it is independent sources that praise them. RAW does beat it's own chest as well, just listen to the likes of Gaurav Arya.

 

[PakLFC]

Fair points. However you are overestimating the ability of Kashmiris. The more terrorists there are the easier it is to target. This is not the same as pushing weapons into a defenseless Afghanistan. It's a very subtle operation as a detection of even a minute Pakistani involvement in Jihadi operations in Kashmir will lead to tightening of FATF. A few AK47s are no match to army. The death of soldiers is some concocted story. Indian media would have shouted from the rooftops if a soldier is dead as it would lend credibility to a curfew if soldiers are being killed. Kashmiris won't be able to claim innocence or oppression. See how that works? The issue is in a few districts in Kashmir and if it goes out of hand they will be walled in, squeezed further and further. This 30 day curfew helped India in weeding out bad elements, dismantle the seperatist movement including weaponry.

Kashmiri people are helpless without weapons hence can be bullied. Give them some weapons then we will see what happens, it should be an interesting match. Well to Indian folk all the valley is full of terrorists, as I said there will be open rebellion against India should the Afghan Taliban decide to make IoK their next playground. That's weird cause according to Indian media Pak is already up to it's eyeballs in IoK pushing through anything that moves? If no harm is being done then Indian's wouldn't have so many soldiers in the IoK neither would they be telling thee world how many were killed on a daily basis. Just a few weeks back one of your senior soldiers posted "Pak killed 25 of our soldiers overnight" then saying he was returning ti Delhi. His tweet was deleted and his account removed. Kashmiris want freedom not sympathy that will get them nowhere at all, they've has 'nuff of that! You are dismantling not a thing rather killing only innocent people that will only breed greater hatred for India and your soldiers. Just wait and watch...

 

[rhony]

How do you know the ISI dictates anything?. There are many attacks in Pak that are stopped by the ISI everyday, we only hear of the ones that get through. The ISI are the reason that bomb blasts have greatly reduced in Pak to the point of being nil. If our governments over the years were not sellouts then the ISI would not meddle in politics so blame Nawaz, Mush and Sharif. ISI do not talk themselves up, it is independent sources that praise them. RAW does beat it's own chest as well, just listen to the likes of Gaurav Arya.

Watch YouTube interviews of Ex ISI heads.

 

[rhony]

Kashmiri people are helpless without weapons hence can be bullied. Give them some weapons then we will see what happens, it should be an interesting match. Well to Indian folk all the valley is full of terrorists, as I said there will be open rebellion against India should the Afghan Taliban decide to make IoK their next playground. That's weird cause according to Indian media Pak is already up to it's eyeballs in IoK pushing through anything that moves? If no harm is being done then Indian's wouldn't have so many soldiers in the IoK neither would they be telling thee world how many were killed on a daily basis. Just a few weeks back one of your senior soldiers posted "Pak killed 25 of our soldiers overnight" then saying he was returning ti Delhi. His tweet was deleted and his account removed. Kashmiris want freedom not sympathy that will get them nowhere at all, they've has 'nuff of that! You are dismantling not a thing rather killing only innocent people that will only breed greater hatred for India and your soldiers. Just wait and watch...

A few weapons will be allowed into Kashmir. Otherwise nobody will believe a false flag operation or India can't justify curfews. As I said the process will be systematic and will be aimed to quash the resistance slowly. Hatred is fine, they already hate India but as I said the numbers are low. Afghan Taliban and Afghan ISIS are awaited in India and Russia respectively. They will be welcomed and then burned.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A few weapons will be allowed into Kashmir. Otherwise nobody will believe a false flag operation or India can't justify curfews. As I said the process will be systematic and will be aimed to quash the resistance slowly. Hatred is fine, they already hate India but as I said the numbers are low. Afghan Taliban and Afghan ISIS are awaited in India and Russia respectively. They will be welcomed and then burned.

Same for Akhand bharat hardliners, if they want to try crossing the border and advance into Pakistan or Bangladesh, they will be welcomed and then their corpses will be fed to the dogs.

 

[rhony]

Same for Akhand bharat hardliners, if they want to try crossing the border and advance into Pakistan or Bangladesh, they will be welcomed and then their corpses will be fed to the dogs.

They will be crushed in India first. Only idiots care about that crap. India's path is set. It's to follow the Chinese model for economy and for crushing the dissidents. China became the world's factory and India should be the world's employee through decent paying services jobs. Crush the Kashmiri rebellion as the Chinese did with the uighurs. Keep the rest of the country stable as developed and educated people can't be crushed as shown by Hongkong. And forget about encroaching neighboring countries as it will only lead to ruin.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They will be crushed in India first. Only idiots care about that crap. India's path is set. It's to follow the Chinese model for economy and for crushing the dissidents. China became the world's factory and India should be the world's employee through decent paying services jobs. Crush the Kashmiri rebellion as the Chinese did with the uighurs. Keep the rest of the country stable as developed and educated people can't be crushed as shown by Hongkong. And forget about encroaching neighboring countries as it will only lead to ruin.

Pakistan can'afford to let down their guard based upon what some anonymous Indian says on the internet. Most Indians were rubbishing the talk of BJP being elected as the governing party on these boards, yet look how they swept to power on a surge of Hindu fervour. Pakistan must remain steadfast and on their guard, what Indian say and what they really feel is often not the same thing. That old saying has some truth to it. Bagal mein churi......you know the rest.

 

[kk1992]

They will be crushed in India first. Only idiots care about that crap. India's path is set. It's to follow the Chinese model for economy and for crushing the dissidents. China became the world's factory and India should be the world's employee through decent paying services jobs. Crush the Kashmiri rebellion as the Chinese did with the uighurs. Keep the rest of the country stable as developed and educated people can't be crushed as shown by Hongkong. And forget about encroaching neighboring countries as it will only lead to ruin.

This guy is openly promoting killing of Kashmiri Muslims and propping RSS ideology by supporting Hindu India.

Probably the first Indian who is openly supporting and verbalizing true agenda. Most of the Indian hide behind words to openly claim who they are.

India can't sustain Chinese Model, India has to kill Kashmiri Muslims like some kind of genocide, and i am sure you will support that for better Hindu India

 

[kk1992]

Same for Akhand bharat hardliners, if they want to try crossing the border and advance into Pakistan or Bangladesh, they will be welcomed and then their corpses will be fed to the dogs.

I wouldn't torture dogs by feeding hate filled ideology corps.

 

[rhony]

Pakistan can'afford to let down their guard based upon what some anonymous Indian says on the internet. Most Indians were rubbishing the talk of BJP being elected as the governing party on these boards, yet look how they swept to power on a surge of Hindu fervour. Pakistan must remain steadfast and on their guard, what Indian say and what they really feel is often not the same thing. That old saying has some truth to it. Bagal mein churi......you know the rest.

Pakistan is perfectly capable of defending their country. Also, India is not USA to go occupy another country. International consensus is vital for India. So your worries are unnecessary. Also there is nothing India can gain by occupying mainland Pakistan

 

[rhony]

This guy is openly promoting killing of Kashmiri Muslims and propping RSS ideology by supporting Hindu India.

Probably the first Indian who is openly supporting and verbalizing true agenda. Most of the Indian hide behind words to openly claim who they are.

India can't sustain Chinese Model, India has to kill Kashmiri Muslims like some kind of genocide, and i am sure you will support that for better Hindu India

What genocide? You seem educated. Does a country hell-bent on genocide try to garner international support? Look at how Rajapakse did it in Sri Lanka against the LTTE terrorists. Is India hiding like China in Uighur land? You gotto open your eyes and see the strategy. A few idiots are forcing the government to impose a curfew on millions. The millions are realizing why they are being inconvenienced. Stop hoping or fearing for genocide. It won't happen. This strategy is age old and works well if the dissidents are in the minority and the majority just want to go about their lives. If they ask for a ham burger, you starve them for a few days. They will be happy with just the bread after a few days of hunger. Nobody will die and nobody needs to die. The other day a fruit vendors family was killed by a couple of terrorists for opening the business. Incidents like this is what India wants Kashmiris to see. Separate the separatists.

 

[kk1992]

What genocide? You seem educated. Does a country hell-bent on genocide try to garner international support? Look at how Rajapakse did it in Sri Lanka against the LTTE terrorists. Is India hiding like China in Uighur land? You gotto open your eyes and see the strategy. A few idiots are forcing the government to impose a curfew on millions. The millions are realizing why they are being inconvenienced. Stop hoping or fearing for genocide. It won't happen. This strategy is age old and works well if the dissidents are in the minority and the majority just want to go about their lives. If they ask for a ham burger, you starve them for a few days. They will be happy with just the bread after a few days of hunger. Nobody will die and nobody needs to die. The other day a fruit vendors family was killed by a couple of terrorists for opening the business. Incidents like this is what India wants Kashmiris to see. Separate the separatists.

inconvenienced? Kashmiri are fighting for freedom not applying for drive licences.

Fearing for genocide because it is on the cards by Indian government, killing has began.

Kashmiri in their region are in majority, you support occupation against the will of kashmiri, hence you support anything and everything done by Indian government, lets not hide behind the words.

Hamburger? ignorance and entitlement to occupy people, you want Kashmiri to refer you as "massa'? but you are not white and will never be, lol

Separate the separatist, good luck.

Any Indian supporting Indian army holding Kashmiri hostages in their own land is partaking.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan is perfectly capable of defending their country. Also, India is not USA to go occupy another country. International consensus is vital for India. So your worries are unnecessary. Also there is nothing India can gain by occupying mainland Pakistan

The main reason India has nothing to gain by occupying Pakistani territory is because they would be soundly thrashed by Pakistan's very capable army. Don't think you can sneak into a war on your own terms as happened in Bangladesh where Pakistan's military was stranded thousands of miles from home.

Brutalising your own citizens under a mask of media blackout is very different from encroaching Pakistan's borders.