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England v Australia | 2nd Test | Lord's | Australia won by 405 runs

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Pitches are so different than that we had in lords last year. Greentop against India, flat-track against Australia - 'selective doctoring' at its best.

PS- we too do doctoring, but we never did this kind of 'selective doctoring' against any particular opposition. Pathetic.

Robert will deny it but once in an Ashes series, England were behind heading into the test in Leeds.

Suddenly a freak fungal infection of the grass happened - but only in the centre of the ground which made the Headingly wicket a Martian dustbowl.
 
Robert will deny it but once in an Ashes series, England were behind heading into the test in Leeds.

Suddenly a freak fungal infection of the grass happened - but only in the centre of the ground which made the Headingly wicket a Martian dustbowl.
Nothing wrong in home team taking advantage, Toss they cannot doctor though.
 
Nasser is spot on.

Smith struggles if you bowl full. He comes a little too much to his off against Pace bowlers exposing his middle and Leg stump often like Hashim Amla. Against spinners, Smith comes down the track way too much to score runs.

This is why I prefer Root over Smith.
 
This is a flat road, on these wickets u need gun speedsters or a proper match winning spinners
 
Aussies should be look at 450+ here atleast on 1st inns maybe even bigger and look to bat once in this match
 
Robert will deny it but once in an Ashes series, England were behind heading into the test in Leeds.

Suddenly a freak fungal infection of the grass happened - but only in the centre of the ground which made the Headingly wicket a Martian dustbowl.

I don't deny the Fusarium attack. I've only read about it as I was a small boy at the time.

It's a matter of record that there was a freak storm, water got under the covers overnight and fungus killed the grass. It wasn't a "Martian dustbowl" because it was wet, like an old-time sticky dog. Underwood said he had no idea whether the ball would grip or not, but it did.

Back to 2015. England need an extraordinary bowler on this track - a Lillee or a Holding or a Waqar.......
 
BTW, last year the wicket was dead flat and grassless for four days.

But believe whatever you want to, rather than the truth.
 
BTW, last year the wicket was dead flat and grassless for four days.

But believe whatever you want to, rather than the truth.

Last year the wicket was still DOING SOMETHING FOR PACERS after 1st day in LORDS. Bhuvneswar kumar with its 120ks pace swung the ball and took 6 wickets. Besides, Old trafford and oval had pace, bounce and prodigious seam movement. It will be a miracle if we witness anything like that in this Ashes.
 
England pitches are seriously :facepalm:

They are all rubbish now. If the ECB wanted to they could make all the early season wickets slow seamers to suit Anderson.

As was, the Indians got five wickets which were more like home conditions for them than English conditions, and they still lost! Same slow dry rubbish served up for the Lankans. Same for the Aussies the year before. Though we had a good spinner then.....
 
They are all rubbish now. If the ECB wanted to they could make all the early season wickets slow seamers to suit Anderson.

As was, the Indians got five wickets which were more like home conditions for them than English conditions, and they still lost! Same slow dry rubbish served up for the Lankans. Same for the Aussies the year before. Though we had a good spinner then.....
Looking to protect the lead from what I gather.
If this is what Pakistan is batting on next year, we have nothing to fear.
 
Last year the wicket was still DOING SOMETHING FOR PACERS after 1st day in LORDS. Bhuvneswar kumar with its 120ks pace swung the ball and took 6 wickets. Besides, Old trafford and oval had pace, bounce and prodigious seam movement. It will be a miracle if we witness anything like that in this Ashes.


1. Orthodox swing has nothing to do with the wicket, it all comes from the atmosphere.

2. None of them had those things. They were all dead and slow, exactly as in 2013, as they will all be in 2015.

You want prodigious seam movement, you have to go back to Headingley in the eighties. Or to Christchurch. There is nothing like that in England now. Notice how the classic English medium-paced seam bowler has all but died out.
 
Looking to protect the lead from what I gather.

Hardly. In the eighties the Indians did that - a bunsen first up, then four roads. If Australia had won the toss at Cardiff then they could be 1-0 up now. Hell, they would be if Haddit had clung onto the Root catch.
 
1. Orthodox swing has nothing to do with the wicket, it all comes from the atmosphere.

2. None of them had those things. They were all dead and slow, exactly as in 2013, as they will all be in 2015.

You want prodigious seam movement, you have to go back to Headingley in the eighties. Or to Christchurch. There is nothing like that in England now. Notice how the classic English medium-paced seam bowler has all but died out.

Dryer wickets are harder on the ball. Making it harder to maintain.
 
They are all rubbish now. If the ECB wanted to they could make all the early season wickets slow seamers to suit Anderson.

As was, the Indians got five wickets which were more like home conditions for them than English conditions, and they still lost!
Same slow dry rubbish served up for the Lankans. Same for the Aussies the year before. Though we had a good spinner then.....

Talking about india's tour-Trent bridge, Lords( except the 1st day) were more subcontinental. Southampton was more like Australian (bounce,pace but zero lateral movements). Old trafford, and oval had everything in them, and they were typical english pitches.

So i don't know how you can claim that all pitches were slow pitches
 
1. Orthodox swing has nothing to do with the wicket, it all comes from the atmosphere.

2. None of them had those things. They were all dead and slow, exactly as in 2013, as they will all be in 2015.

You want prodigious seam movement, you have to go back to Headingley in the eighties. Or to Christchurch. There is nothing like that in England now. Notice how the classic English medium-paced seam bowler has all but died out.

Really? perhaps you had watched a different match then. Even Boycott told then that if pitches would be anything like that( like old trafford, and oval) in the coming Ashes, it would be impossible to stop Australia.
 
Talking about india's tour-Trent bridge, Lords( except the 1st day) were more subcontinental. Southampton was more like Australian (bounce,pace but zero lateral movements). Old trafford, and oval had everything in them, and they were typical english pitches.

I no longer believe that you even watched the series, or if you did, any other series that took place in England in the last thirty years.
 
Really? perhaps you had watched a different match then. Even Boycott told then that if pitches would be anything like that( like old trafford, and oval) in the coming Ashes, it would be impossible to stop Australia.

Which proves my point that the pitches are not made to suit the English bowlers.
 
Which proves my point that the pitches are not made to suit the English bowlers.

LOL at your Logic. This is what Boycott had to say then

Let us be clear, I do not see England preparing pitches like Old Trafford and the Oval when we play the Australians of Mitchell Johnson, Ryan Harris and James Pattinson next year. If we do there will be some two-day Tests. They have bowling just as good as ours, if not better. This is why we have to be cautious. Johnson and Harris have annihilated us on good pitches in Australia. Just think what they will do on these pitches.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11040255/England-played-well-but-India-did-not-provide-true-test.html

So Old trafford and Oval - 'subcontinental' pitches. Now i have heard it all.

It also states upto what length England can go when it comes to 'selective doctoring' of pitches.
 
Well this flat pitch has come to backfire on England, very little pressure has been created on the batsmen all day.

I hope we see these pitches next year for Pakistan's tour, we'll definitely have a chance.
 
This flat phatta road has come to bite Englishmen in their backsides, but ofcourse naysayers will say otherwise.
 
LOL at your Logic. This is what Boycott had to say then

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11040255/England-played-well-but-India-did-not-provide-true-test.html

So Old trafford and Oval - 'subcontinental' pitches. Now i have heard it all.

It also states upto what length England can go when it comes to 'selective doctoring' of pitches.

It does not say that. Read it again. It says that Australia would win on the OT and Oval wickets of 2014. Though I do not see why.

Firstly: I wonder if Boykz wrote that at all - it seems ghosted to me. Boykz knows that there is no such thing as a "swinging pitch" - it's a non sequitur. And look at that picture. No grass there at all to help seam movement. Aussies do better than England on bouncy wickets, not "seaming, swinging" ones because their modern batters struggle with lateral movement while modern England batters struggle with bounce.

Secondly: it's just flat-out false that "England" (whatever that means) rig the wickets. When David Lloyd was England coach he asked for some slow seamers. What was the response from the Counties? In his words: "Zip. Nothing. Nada."

What you must understand is that "England" (by which I assume you mean the ECB instead of the team) do not own the test grounds, the Counties do, apart from Lord's which is owned by the MCC - and the ECB have no influence on the groundsmen, who are employed by the Counties (or MCC at Lord's) not the ECB.

Now the BCCI..... they are the pitch-rigging experts, and fair enough. In 1981/2 the first test was a bunsen and England lost, then the next four matches were on roads with India bowling ten overs per hour with the spinners on to shut England out. That's the way to do it, as long as you are happy to win and not provide entertainment.

Look, pitches in England have radically changed in the last three years. For a start the climate is changing. The seasons are longer - there is not much spring or autumn and the soil responds to that. The wickets have new drainage systems to render them dry and slow. In Kapil Dev's day he might see a green seamer with variable bounce at Headingley, a turner at OT, a bouncy track at the Oval. Now they are all (in Convict's words) variations on the theme of slow and dead.
 
Moeen "Hack" Bhai is mediocre with both bat and ball, don't know why England keep picking him in tests!
 
It does not say that. Read it again. It says that Australia would win on the OT and Oval wickets of 2014. Though I do not see why.

Firstly: I wonder if Boykz wrote that at all - it seems ghosted to me. Boykz knows that there is no such thing as a "swinging pitch" - it's a non sequitur. And look at that picture. No grass there at all to help seam movement. Aussies do better than England on bouncy wickets, not "seaming, swinging" ones because their modern batters struggle with lateral movement while modern England batters struggle with bounce.

Secondly: it's just flat-out false that "England" (whatever that means) rig the wickets. When David Lloyd was England coach he asked for some slow seamers. What was the response from the Counties? In his words: "Zip. Nothing. Nada."

What you must understand is that "England" (by which I assume you mean the ECB instead of the team) do not own the test grounds, the Counties do, apart from Lord's which is owned by the MCC - and the ECB have no influence on the groundsmen, who are employed by the Counties (or MCC at Lord's) not the ECB.

Now the BCCI..... they are the pitch-rigging experts, and fair enough. In 1981/2 the first test was a bunsen and England lost, then the next four matches were on roads with India bowling ten overs per hour with the spinners on to shut England out. That's the way to do it, as long as you are happy to win and not provide entertainment.

Look, pitches in England have radically changed in the last three years. For a start the climate is changing. The seasons are longer - there is not much spring or autumn and the soil responds to that. The wickets have new drainage systems to render them dry and slow. In Kapil Dev's day he might see a green seamer with variable bounce at Headingley, a turner at OT, a bouncy track at the Oval. Now they are all (in Convict's words) variations on the theme of slow and dead.

Don't buy that logic. Ofcourse swing depends upon over-head conditions, but southampton, Old trafford and Oval all had pace and bounce, when india played there last year. Can we expect that in this Ashes. I don't hink so!
 
Don't buy that logic. Ofcourse swing depends upon over-head conditions, but southampton, Old trafford and Oval all had pace and bounce, when india played there last year. Can we expect that in this Ashes. I don't hink so!

OK, you have the last word. :39:

I don't know where England can get a wicket here. The weather seems set fair for the five days so they will have to bat for the last three. If Chef or Root get in they can bat for a long time. Expecting a tense final session on the last day!
 
Don't buy that logic. Ofcourse swing depends upon over-head conditions, but southampton, Old trafford and Oval all had pace and bounce, when india played there last year. Can we expect that in this Ashes. I don't hink so!

He's just making excuses to justify pitch conditions when the fact is that Englishmen are simply being "afraid" of Johnson and co to run through their lineup. Thats why the super dry pitches to negate pace and bounce from Aussie quicks.
 
Don't buy that logic. Ofcourse swing depends upon over-head conditions, but southampton, Old trafford and Oval all had pace and bounce, when india played there last year. Can we expect that in this Ashes. I don't hink so!

It does, the pitch affects the ball which affects the amount/duration of conventional swing greatly. Saying the pitch doesn't affect swing is a ridiculous notion and would only hold true if they replaced the ball every ten minutes. We all know from watching cricket that how the pitch looks will affect the amount of swing on display; it's just common knowledge
 
It does, the pitch affects the ball which affects the amount/duration of conventional swing greatly. Saying the pitch doesn't affect swing is a ridiculous notion and would only hold true if they replaced the ball every ten minutes. We all know from watching cricket that how the pitch looks will affect the amount of swing on display; it's just common knowledge

I don't know much about it. According to [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] Pitches don't affect swing bowling. I too believe in this, since the movement off the pitch is 'seam' and not 'swing', which happens in air.

If you have something more to add on this, then please enlighten me!
 
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It does, the pitch affects the ball which affects the amount/duration of conventional swing greatly. Saying the pitch doesn't affect swing is a ridiculous notion and would only hold true if they replaced the ball every ten minutes. We all know from watching cricket that how the pitch looks will affect the amount of swing on display; it's just common knowledge

Common to whom? To people who do not understand cricket, at a guess. King of the Swingers Sir Ian Botham said he had no real idea whether a given ball would swing on a given ground on a given day.

Reverse swing is effected by the pitch. Orthodox swing is all to do with moist air rising.
 
Pitches are so different

They are indeed as different as they can be.

---------------------------

In a very dry season in Eng against India --- "The greenest surface served up at Lord’s in living memory - at start it was hard to distinguish the pitch from the playing area" -- Wisden

To

This super flat pitch against Aus.

---------------------------

Anyway, trying to win a test by making a green mamba or sharp turners can backfire. You give opposition a chance to win as well. Eng got smarter and abandoned this strategy to win the series against India. Indians kept repeating the same mistake and lost the series against Eng.

But it's super fun to watch tests on those surfaces if you don't care about the results either way.
 
Good showing by Australia today. The pitch is worse than Cardiff. There's hardly any excitement in this game as a result.
 
Already the best possible result for England seems to be a draw. England tried to nullify Johnson but they got a taste of their own medicine.
 
They are indeed as different as they can be.

---------------------------

In a very dry season in Eng against India --- "The greenest surface served up at Lord’s in living memory - at start it was hard to distinguish the pitch from the playing area" -- Wisden

To

This super flat pitch against Aus.

---------------------------

Anyway, trying to win a test by making a green mamba or sharp turners can backfire. You give opposition a chance to win as well. Eng got smarter and abandoned this strategy to win the series against India. Indians kept repeating the same mistake and lost the series against Eng.

But it's super fun to watch tests on those surfaces if you don't care about the results either way.

on contrary I like our approach, of having rank turners, instead of laying down flat track. That make test cricket interesting, as it give chance to the opposition.
 
This wicket will quicken up tomorrow and Saturday and itl deffo take spin on day 4-5, can see Australia winning handsomely
 
Lol didn't see this coming. England out of it unless the greatest collapse in history takes place.

Well at least we know there aren't going to be any phattas the next 3 games, right [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] bhai?
 
Common to whom? To people who do not understand cricket, at a guess. King of the Swingers Sir Ian Botham said he had no real idea whether a given ball would swing on a given ground on a given day.

Reverse swing is effected by the pitch. Orthodox swing is all to do with moist air rising.

I think he is talking about duration of swing rather than the amount.
 
Pathetic test wicket. A disgrace. This will kill test cricket. Eng pitches have been like this for so long now.

They can learn a thing or 2 from sl curators. Last series pak vs sl had great pitches.

Eng are killing test cricket !
 
A solid day's play from the Aussies.Have they suddenly become the favorites in the series ?
 
Nasser is spot on.

Smith struggles if you bowl full. He comes a little too much to his off against Pace bowlers exposing his middle and Leg stump often like Hashim Amla. Against spinners, Smith comes down the track way too much to score runs.

This is why I prefer Root over Smith.

Yeah he's the worst best batsman in the world
 
Going to have to bat very well to escape from this one with a draw. Credit to Australia for performing at something near their current team's best. Winning the toss is one thing, but you have to make of that and run with it.
 
Lol didn't see this coming. England out of it unless the greatest collapse in history takes place.

Well at least we know there aren't going to be any phattas the next 3 games, right [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] bhai?

I'll be most surprised it they are anything other than varying degrees of dead.
 
In a very dry season in Eng against India --- "The greenest surface served up at Lord’s in living memory - at start it was hard to distinguish the pitch from the playing area" -- Wisden

To

This super flat pitch against Aus.

Ye gods. How many times have I got to say this?

The MCC groundsman panicked when he saw Hampshire CCC get excoriated by the press for serving up that ultra-flat Southampton deck, so he left the grass on, but it died by close of play on the first day under fierce sun. Then on days two, three, four and five of the India test last year, the wicket looked and behaved exactly like it did today.

You Indians all see some grand ECB conspiracy. I see County and MCC employees not doing their jobs properly, which is to provide a wicket offering an equal contest between bat and ball.
 
Indian fans should phir ro rahe hain about pitches somewhere else and stop ruining the match thread with their insecurities and befawookana.
 
Indian fans should phir ro rahe hain about pitches somewhere else and stop ruining the match thread with their insecurities and befawookana.
As far as I understand this is a Forum, we do not need your permission to voice our opinion.
When you jump on threads relets us , we can do same, you buffoon.
 
Ye gods. How many times have I got to say this?

The MCC groundsman panicked when he saw Hampshire CCC get excoriated by the press for serving up that ultra-flat Southampton deck, so he left the grass on, but it died by close of play on the first day under fierce sun. Then on days two, three, four and five of the India test last year, the wicket looked and behaved exactly like it did today.

You Indians all see some grand ECB conspiracy. I see County and MCC employees not doing their jobs properly, which is to provide a wicket offering an equal contest between bat and ball.

OK, but look who is suffering now? And it was by Wisden not an Indian rag.
 
England will probably need to get 400-450 to avoid the follow on. Australia will be looking at 600-650. England can still save this test though as this will not be easy to take 20 wickets.
 
England will probably need to get 400-450 to avoid the follow on. Australia will be looking at 600-650. England can still save this test though as this will not be easy to take 20 wickets.

It all depends upon 1st session tomorrow. If Aus does not loose quick wickets and bat till tea, then it will be their game.
 
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