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England v New Zealand | 2nd Test | Headingley | 26/5/13 | Day 3

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The only reason Swann is getting this much Turn is because 2 left armers bowled almost 40 overs on a wet pitch, thus there is a lot if rough outside off.
 
anti-English posts strangely absent in the last hour.
 
I don't know what changes can the Kiwis bring, this is just sad. They once had players like Astle, Fleming, Chris Cairns, Mark Richardson, Craig Mcmillan and now they are batting like :facepalm:
 
New Zealand trying their level best to show that they are worse than BD when it comes to batting.

The only thing they have left to do is lose 5 wickets for zero runs :afridi
 
Ashraful_Rox said:
I don't know what changes can the Kiwis bring, this is just sad. They once had players like Astle, Fleming, Chris Cairns, Mark Richardson, Craig Mcmillan and now they are batting like :facepalm:
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lack of fanbase.

They are a small country, and over the last 2 decades, youngsters have probably lost interest in cricket and took over other sports like football or rugby..hence the drought.

The demise of kenya was for similar reasons(though there were some severe financial issues)
 
122-8 on a four-sessions-old pitch, what a rubbish team.
 
Rubbish is too kind a word to describe this performance. Pathetic. Hesson deserves the sack on this alone.
 
Stuart and Jimmy got their 5fers in the last match, they should step aside for Graeme to take this last wicket for a 5 and a great comeback.
 
lol some of the posts from earlier in the thread are now comedy gold.
 
on a side note the two fatties Erasmus and Davis are having a rubbish match, constantly getting overturned by England's superb use of the DRS system.
 
Kiwi New Zealand bowling England out for 350 is way better than England bowling out New Zealand for half that, yeahhhh buddy :)))
 
This is great hitting! This 40 is now one of the highest partnerships of the innings :)))
 
James said:
They actually didn't select Swann when your blokes played us at Headingley, and England ended up doing alright in that match. However that kind of ballsy selection is not normally associated with England, so this year they have reverted to type.
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funny how Swann took 4 in this pitch
 
James said:
It's rare a spinner, particularly an English spinner even gets a 3fer at Headingley.

I think it's a case of a top player breaking a trend! :)
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thats why i was perplexed in the 1st place. I saw Swann turn a ball on Day 1 in South Africa no less. Ridiculous decision not to bowl him earlier.
 
However i have to say cricket is a funny game. In my unbias opinion with over 20 years of watching cricket New Zealand bowled better than England. Swann just happens to be a devil. I dont rate Englands pace attack at all. A fully fit Australian unit is better IMO. NZ bowled better lengths than England in this match. Nowonder they were found out against South Africa.
 
Swann certainly does turn the ball more than Ajmal and he's bloody consistent but he can't run through sides like Ajmal or at least he hasn't till now
 
soso_killer said:
Ajmal could only dream of bowling like that on a graveyard for spinners
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soso_killer said:
thats why i was perplexed in the 1st place. I saw Swann turn a ball on Day 1 in South Africa no less. Ridiculous decision not to bowl him earlier.
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Swann's performance in SA remains underrated, also did you know his stats in Asia are superior to Ajmal's stats in Asia?
 
Hoping England can get to a lead of 400 by lunch tomorrow and then set out dismissing the Kiwis one final time
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Swann certainly does turn the ball more than Ajmal and he's bloody consistent but he can't run through sides like Ajmal or at least he hasn't till now
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no no no!! Spinners dont run through lineups outside of Asia, they pick cheap wickets. Which is something that Ajmal does not do anyway, unless the pitch suits him of course.
 
I initially disagreed with the decision to bat again, but on closer inspection perhaps it is the most pragmatic move of all. The NZ bowlers have had no chance to rest and the England batsmen have license to score quickly. Plus we need to get in as much competitive batting practice as we can before the Ashes starts.
 
James said:
@Ruri my man, how do you feel about Finn today, about the way he put Broad and Anderson's early morning mediocrity into perspective? We need different kinds of seamers to succeed as a team, and that's what Steven's wicket-to-wicket pace and bounce offers.
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I am not going to write home about a three-fer. He was good today but it doesn't change that he is average most days.
 
soso_killer said:
no no no!! Spinners dont run through lineups outside of Asia, they pick cheap wickets. Which is something that Ajmal does not do anyway, unless the pitch suits him of course.
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Whichever way you look at it, Ajmal is the better spinner at the moment. The difference is not much though and Swann could easily be the top spinner inthe next year or so.
 
Ruri said:
I am not going to write home about a three-fer. He was good today but it doesn't change that he is average most days.
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It was more than just the superficial reading of a 3fer, our opening bowling had got genuinely battered and Finn came in to change the momentum and take 3 crucial top order wickets. IMO you're not being fair.
 
Dunno why they batted again. Compo must have asked for one last chance.
 
James said:
It's rare a spinner, particularly an English spinner even gets a 3fer at Headingley.

I think it's a case of a top player breaking a trend! :)
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The conditions for an offspinner were good as there was a lot of rough, because of Boult and Wagner both Left Armers bowling 40+ Overs on a Wet and Moist pitch.
The pitch was tearing up every time in Boult and Wagners follow through.
 
James said:
It was more than just the superficial reading of a 3fer, our opening bowling had got genuinely battered and Finn came in to change the momentum and take 3 crucial top order wickets. IMO you're not being fair.
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I genuinely like Finn. But he's more on and off in Tests than the rest of our bowlers. By all means he might be our best ODI bowler... but the amount of credit we give Finn is stupid. Reminds me of the blind fanbouism that Amid gets... despite him having one good patch of form in England he became the next Wasim. And I don't like it when Finn becomes the next McGrath or whatever we are hyping him up as nowadays. The only player in our side that deserves comparisons to greats is Cook by virtue of a stellar career and the records he owns already.
 
Ruri said:
Dunno why they batted again. Compo must have asked for one last chance.
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If Compo fails here then he should probably be dropped. Pietersen has to replace one of them. I think Nick's more technically correct than Bairstow - but the difference is the mentality. It was quite amazing to see Nick's batting yesterday: we were 1-0 up in a home series, we had won the toss and were batting first on a sunny day against the no.8 ranked team - honestly, a Test opener could not hope to face a less intimidating situation in his career. Nick however carries such anxiety, I do not think I have ever seen him come close to cracking a smile. His body language would depress a harbour seal. I was not surprised when he lost his wicket early. Bairstow meanwhile is a crude player of spin and has a lot to work on RE his front-foot game, but he is up for a fight and looked happy to be out there batting in a Test match for England. And Test cricket is all about being up for it, with a self-confident attitude and the willingness to have a go.
 
James said:
Swann's performance in SA remains underrated, also did you know his stats in Asia are superior to Ajmal's stats in Asia?
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why do you think i said from the get go he was the best in the world? Anyway i dont need stats to tell me who is better of the two.

I remember watching Swann in South Africa and he turned the ball on Day 1 by a mile. I thought to myself thank god we are batting 1st on this surface coz day 2 will probably turn more and we're not batting last on this surface. Instead Harris bowled crap, Swann turned the ball more on Day 1 than Harris could on Day 5, go figure
 
Ruri said:
I genuinely like Finn. But he's more on and off in Tests than the rest of our bowlers. By all means he might be our best ODI bowler... but the amount of credit we give Finn is stupid. Reminds me of the blind fanbouism that Amid gets... despite him having one good patch of form in England he became the next Wasim. And I don't like it when Finn becomes the next McGrath or whatever we are hyping him up as nowadays. The only player in our side that deserves comparisons to greats is Cook by virtue of a stellar career and the records he owns already.
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Good post that.

Objective analysis, which is often easier said than done.
 
Ruri said:
I genuinely like Finn. But he's more on and off in Tests than the rest of our bowlers. By all means he might be our best ODI bowler... but the amount of credit we give Finn is stupid. Reminds me of the blind fanbouism that Amid gets... despite him having one good patch of form in England he became the next Wasim. And I don't like it when Finn becomes the next McGrath or whatever we are hyping him up as nowadays. The only player in our side that deserves comparisons to greats is Cook by virtue of a stellar career and the records he owns already.
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Finn is the only pacer who looked like taking a wicket. Broad and Anderson were toothless. If it weren't for him and Swann, NZ would have scored 400+
 
Embarrassing batting by Compton. He needs to.get a move on it. Folllow Cook's example
 
Ruri said:
Embarrassing batting by Compton. He needs to.get a move on it. Folllow Cook's example
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I just think it's quite telling. If you can't relax and play your natural game alongside the world's best opener, there's something wrong with the picture. Nick is clearly a nice honest guy but I'm not sure he's got the stomach for the task.
 
James said:
I just think it's quite telling. If you can't relax and play your natural game alongside the world's best opener, there's something wrong with the picture. Nick is clearly a nice honest guy but I'm not sure he's got the stomach for the task.
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I can understand it. Pressure of it being possibly your last ever chance due to your age.... Bairstow and Root are young and will have plenty of chances.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Has done well in England and was exceptional in West Indies. Also took a 10 fer in South Africa. That's pretty good.
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the 10-for was on an uncharacteristic dry Newlands pitch. Even so he was pretty ordinary in SA averaged 33 which flattered him to be honest
 
Ruri said:
I can understand it. Pressure of it being possibly your last ever chance due to your age.... Bairstow and Root are young and will have plenty of chances.
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Yes I'm not sure it works introducing older guys to Test cricket, because they are naturally given less time to learn from their mistakes. Hussey was the exception to this then again he was an exceptional player.
 
soso_killer said:
the 10-for was on an uncharacteristic dry Newlands pitch. Even so he was pretty ordinary in SA averaged 33 which flattered him to be honest
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Yes but he did avg 29 in England. Same as Swann. On wickets conducive to spin bowling, Ajmal is deadly but Swann is more consistent, irrespective of the pitch. However, i do believe Ajmal is in decline so Swann will end up with better stats.
 
Swann is ageing like a fine wine, he seems to get better and better. Supreme performance for an English conventional offie in India.
 
James said:
Swann is ageing like a fine wine, he seems to get better and better. Supreme performance for an English conventional offie in India.
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Especially happy to him in form following surgery.
 
Ruri said:
Especially happy to him in form following surgery.
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yeah i was sacred coz i thought they might have rushed him back. Very few quality spinners left out there. Especially orthodox spinners and i want to emphasise that word "orthodox" no bent elbows and long sleeves
 
Ruri said:
I can understand it. Pressure of it being possibly your last ever chance due to your age.... Bairstow and Root are young and will have plenty of chances.
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You've gotta persist with Compton IMO. I'm not overly impressed with him either.

But his technique is solid enough for test cricket. He's shown he can grit it out there. Quality openers are hard to find. He can score, just very slowly.

It is possible that after the first few games his nerves will settle down and he'll get more relaxed and able to pick up the scoring. He doesn't particularly look like a player incapable of scoring fast, more he just chooses not to, to make sure he stays in.

Moving Root is a risk. Opening is harder, especially in UK. What if Root fails there and loses form. Then that'll just create problems. Much safer to keep Root there.

Yes Bell opening is an option, the guy's got the best technique out of the whole team. But a guy who's been given so many chances and mentally bottled it, think it'd be unfair on Compton to do that just yet.
 
soso_killer said:
yeah i was sacred coz i thought they might have rushed him back. Very few quality spinners left out there. Especially orthodox spinners and i want to emphasise that word "orthodox" no bent elbows and long sleeves
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Swann wears long sleeves does that make him unorthodox.
Pretty stupid logic.
 
So much for needing Root at #2, with the skipper in this form!
 
And now Compo out. Feel for the lad. Oh well. Perhaps he'll be given a chance in the Ashes, still not convinced with Bairstow.
 
Compton gone. His career may over in a couple of matches.

I don't mind him being given a few more matches but he flops under pressure which is not a good thing at all. He needs a really good county season to claim a spot in the XI it seems.
 
rooster said:
Compton gone. His career may over in a couple of matches.

I don't mind him being given a few more matches but he flops under pressure which is not a good thing at all. He needs a really good county season to claim a spot in the XI it seems.
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Time is against him - he's the wrong side of 30, with Root and Bairstow pushing him.
 
ahmed778 said:
Swann wears long sleeves does that make him unorthodox.
Pretty stupid logic.
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swannpic-116594539.jpg


Graeme-Swann-001.jpg

Call me next time Ajmal wears a short sleeve. :ajmal
 
England need to just start smacking around. Already comfortably ahead, another 100-150 quicktime is enough.
 
Declare 20 minutes before lunch tomorrow I reckon, NZ are finished.
 
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