England's greatest batsman

[James]

England should unify the captaincy. Cook can do a job in T20s, and, I mean, seriously, Stuart Broad? He is clearly not a good enough cricketer to hold the vice-captaincy and thus be undroppable. Make Swann the vice-captain.

 

[DHONI183]

Dear Alastair Cook,

If you are reading this thread then don´t be disheartened by your name not appearing in my post.

You are a wonderful batsman too and I am a fan of your patience at the crease and gentleman-like behaviour. Only problem is that an impatient and busy man like me can´t watch you bat live. Still, I often watch highlights if you happen to score big.

You are not as destructive as someone like Kevin Pietersen but you are very, very effect at your own game. It is heartening to see too how you have developed your game in ODI cricket which of course doesn´t seem to come naturally to you.

Lastly, congratulations on yet another brave innings on your debut Test as captain.

 

[Chrish]

Btw Hobbs and Hutton..

Walter Hammond to me is a rung below these two as a batsman..

 

[Ab Fan]

Top 5:

what should be the list?

Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
Sutcliffe
KP/ Gooch/ Root/ Cook/ Barrington/ Compton

 

[Chrish]

It's either Sir Jack Hobbs (who figured out how to play swing bowling) or Walter Hammond.

I'd prefer Wally as you also get a brilliant slip catcher and a capable FM bowler too. He was an all-rounder of the same quality as Sobers and Kallis.

Nah..

 

[ToeCrusher2]

A lot of mediocre names in the OP except KP, KP is easily the greatest England batsman but Root will overtake him. There isn't much competition for the title of greatest English batsman anyway

 

[Chrish]

A lot of mediocre names in the OP except KP, KP is easily the greatest England batsman but Root will overtake him. There isn't much competition for the title of greatest English batsman anyway

No

 

[Ab Fan]

Hobbs
Hammond
Hutton
Sutcliffe
Compton
Barrington( don't know how to rate him)
Gooch
KP
Boycott
Cook

I am sure I missed out some more batters of dinasours era but then I don't really care.

 

[Chrish]

Hammond was said to have weaknesses against “pace” bowling. Now standard of pace from that era is questionable as it is; no way you can be the best batsman when guy like Hutton consistently faced and fared well against modern type intimidatory pace attacks.

 

[MMHS]

Hobbs
Hammond
Hutton
Sutcliffe
Compton
Barrington( don't know how to rate him)
Gooch
KP
Boycott
Cook

I am sure I missed out some more batters of dinasours era but then I don't really care.

Barrington actually was the most boring batsman of all. I think, despite 10+ average gap, contemporary Dexter & May were rated higher, probably Gravney as well. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]s

Top 4 of your list is fine; though, I'll put KS Ranji some where in that top 4, and put Compton over Sutcliffe, to drop him at 5.

This list actually indicates reason for English romanticism with past - the Queen had not many to cheer for from her Royal box, since her marriage to Duke.

 

[Ab Fan]

Barrington actually was the most boring batsman of all. I think, despite 10+ average gap, contemporary Dexter & May were rated higher, probably Gravney as well. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]s

Top 4 of your list is fine; though, I'll put KS Ranji some where in that top 4, and put Compton over Sutcliffe, to drop him at 5.

This list actually indicates reason for English romanticism with past - the Queen had not many to cheer for from her Royal box, since her marriage to Duke.

Yes but very hard to rate all those guys when you haven't seen them and going only with what read and heard about them.

Statistically, Compton has a poor away record but is rated very highly while Barrington has one of the best in away conditions but doesn't really come too often in the list.

What would be your take on the ones from 70s since you have watched them all?

 

[Ab Fan]

^ from 70s onwards I should say.

 

[MMHS]

^ from 70s onwards I should say.

Probably (I take out Boyce here) -


Gooch
KP
Root
Gower
Athers
Stewart
Cook
Thorpe

May be Randal & Bell should be some where in top 10 - after top 4, difficult to order.
Really depressing list, to be honest - even Lamb, Smith, Strauss & Fletcher threatening top 10.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Probably (I take out Boyce here) -


Gooch
KP
Root
Gower
Athers
Stewart
Cook
Thorpe

May be Randal & Bell should be some where in top 10 - after top 4, difficult to order.
Really depressing list, to be honest - even Lamb, Smith, Strauss & Fletcher threatening top 10.

You know you have produced some garbage batsmen if a batsman like athers with an average below 40 is your top 5 batsman since the 70s

 

[Ab Fan]

You know you have produced some garbage batsmen if a batsman like athers with an average below 40 is your top 5 batsman since the 70s

McGrath bullied Atherton like no body did.

 

[MMHS]

You know you have produced some garbage batsmen if a batsman like athers with an average below 40 is your top 5 batsman since the 70s

Athers was probably one of the best ever batman with sub 40 average. Can't explain why - at his best, he was as good as anyone opening in 90s, still his stats are like Ijaz Ahmed & Habibul Basher!!! I think, main reason was Pom's limited batting resources - he was so good to the next man that they had to pick him even when out of touch. Otherwise Wasim, Mac, Donald & Ambi rates him really high - particularly Wasim, who has probably bowled at him most in nets.

 

[Ab Fan]

Probably (I take out Boyce here) -


Gooch
KP
Root
Gower
Athers
Stewart
Cook
Thorpe

May be Randal & Bell should be some where in top 10 - after top 4, difficult to order.
Really depressing list, to be honest - even Lamb, Smith, Strauss & Fletcher threatening top 10.

Root isn't ahead of all those below him yet.And Gower underachieved. Will pick Cook ahead of him.

 

[Robert]

Barrington actually was the most boring batsman of all. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]s

IIRC he got dropped for slow-scoring 200 once.....

 

[Robert]

Athers was probably one of the best ever batman with sub 40 average. Can't explain why - at his best, he was as good as anyone opening in 90s, still his stats are like Ijaz Ahmed & Habibul Basher!!! I think, main reason was Pom's limited batting resources - he was so good to the next man that they had to pick him even when out of touch. Otherwise Wasim, Mac, Donald & Ambi rates him really high - particularly Wasim, who has probably bowled at him most in nets.

He has a back problem which McGrath exploited ruthlessly. But when he scored England tended to do well. He had some signal innings such as the blocktastic 179*, and had a big role in England's series win in Pakistan.

 

[MMHS]

Root isn't ahead of all those below him yet.And Gower underachieved. Will pick Cook ahead of him.

Gower was majestic in flow - like Sanga, Saeed & Ganguly in one package. But, .... he had a habit of personal preference than team's need while batting.


In that list of 70s on wards, I'll have to find a place form Vaughn somewhere in between 4 to 6.

Still, it's probably a list fighting for a spot over SRL & only ahead of NZ in that period.

 

[ayemgilani86]

Thorpe should be on the list, was ina weak team and played well against quality bowlers

 

[austerlitz]

Never saw hobbs or hutton.Graham gooch is the best for me.Maybe cook once he finishes.

 

[MMHS]

Never saw hobbs or hutton.Graham gooch is the best for me.Maybe cook once he finishes.

You'll laugh at their batting technique & rightly so. But, it shouldn't be judged that way in such lists - it has to be like what they did against contemporary greats. That's why Hobbs, Ranji & WG are always among very best of my English list.

 

[Hasan123]

Most of England's batting greats were playing before I was even born lol. Also some of these are very good batsmen but not many are ATGs. I think England don't relay on 1 individual , they perform as a unit and spread the runs around.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Most of England's batting greats were playing before I was even born lol. Also some of these are very good batsmen but not many are ATGs. I think England don't relay on 1 individual , they perform as a unit and spread the runs around.

England rarely perform in the first place, from 1990 to 2005 they were the most garbage team in world cricket. 2005 to 2012 was their golden period and even in that time they were only good in 1 format. The overhyped English batters like gooch, artheton would have been long forgotten had they played for other countries, can you imagine a below 40 average batsman from India, australia, south africa or even lanka being remembered for his batting long after retirement?

Just for example, Ganguly was a great captain (the greatest captain from asia) and a very good batsman, he averaged above 44-45 outside asia which is a great achievement considering sanga also has a similar average outside asia but you'll never see Indians praising or remembering dada for his test batting skills.
The English media is the biggest hype machine in the cricketing world.

 

[Ab Fan]

^ Gooch isn't overrated. Very few players have done as well as him against genuine pace attack and very good vs spin too. He is in the mould of KP and VVS. And he was the best opening batsmen of the 90s and arguably the best batsmen between 90-95.

Opening is regarded as the hardest job and more so in 80s and 90s when you face plethora of pace bowlers unlike today where there are just a few quality pace bowlers.

 

[Ab Fan]

Most of England's batting greats were playing before I was even born lol. Also some of these are very good batsmen but not many are ATGs. I think England don't relay on 1 individual , they perform as a unit and spread the runs around.

England have produced plenty of good to great cricketer but none were really ATGs. Even in last 10 year they had

KP
Cook
Anderson
Broad
Swann

Root and Stokes are next on line. Let's see how they end up.

 

[Hasan123]

England rarely perform in the first place, from 1990 to 2005 they were the most garbage team in world cricket. 2005 to 2012 was their golden period and even in that time they were only good in 1 format. The overhyped English batters like gooch, artheton would have been long forgotten had they played for other countries, can you imagine a below 40 average batsman from India, australia, south africa or even lanka being remembered for his batting long after retirement?

Just for example, Ganguly was a great captain (the greatest captain from asia) and a very good batsman, he averaged above 44-45 outside asia which is a great achievement considering sanga also has a similar average outside asia but you'll never see Indians praising or remembering dada for his test batting skills.
The English media is the biggest hype machine in the cricketing world.

Most countries hype there own players, harsh to call out England just for this.


Atherton played some good knocks versus some great bowlers, it's understandable why he's remembered a lot by England fans. Furthermore an average of about 40 in a bowling friendly era at the top of the order is probably why he gets high rating from England pundits and fans. He's not an ATG but a respected player.

 

[Ted123]

Probably (I take out Boyce here) -


Gooch
KP
Root
Gower
Athers
Stewart
Cook
Thorpe

May be Randal & Bell should be some where in top 10 - after top 4, difficult to order.
Really depressing list, to be honest - even Lamb, Smith, Strauss & Fletcher threatening top 10.

Stewart should be higher. Rest I agree.

 

[jeetu]

Joe Root might become the best among Post 1970 English batsman.
English Batsman with atleast 5000 test runs.

[table= class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KF Barrington [/td][td]1955-1968 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]6806 [/td][td]58.67 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]35 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WR Hammond [/td][td]1927-1947 [/td][td]85 [/td][td]7249 [/td][td]58.45 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]24 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JB Hobbs [/td][td]1908-1930 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]5410 [/td][td]56.94 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]28 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]L Hutton [/td][td]1937-1955 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]6971 [/td][td]56.67 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JE Root [/td][td]2012-2017 [/td][td]60 [/td][td]5323 [/td][td]53.76 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DCS Compton [/td][td]1937-1957 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]5807 [/td][td]50.06 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]28 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]G Boycott [/td][td]1964-1982 [/td][td]108 [/td][td]8114 [/td][td]47.72 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]42 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KP Pietersen [/td][td]2005-2014 [/td][td]104 [/td][td]8181 [/td][td]47.28 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]35 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AN Cook [/td][td]2006-2017 [/td][td]147 [/td][td]11629 [/td][td]46.33 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]55 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GP Thorpe [/td][td]1993-2005 [/td][td]100 [/td][td]6744 [/td][td]44.66 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DI Gower [/td][td]1978-1992 [/td][td]117 [/td][td]8231 [/td][td]44.25 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MC Cowdrey [/td][td]1954-1975 [/td][td]114 [/td][td]7624 [/td][td]44.06 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]38 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ME Trescothick [/td][td]2000-2006 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]5825 [/td][td]43.79 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]29 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JH Edrich [/td][td]1963-1976 [/td][td]77 [/td][td]5138 [/td][td]43.54 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]24 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IR Bell [/td][td]2004-2015 [/td][td]118 [/td][td]7727 [/td][td]42.69 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]46 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GA Gooch [/td][td]1975-1995 [/td][td]118 [/td][td]8900 [/td][td]42.58 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]46 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MP Vaughan [/td][td]1999-2008 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]5719 [/td][td]41.44 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Strauss [/td][td]2004-2012 [/td][td]100 [/td][td]7037 [/td][td]40.91 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Stewart [/td][td]1990-2003 [/td][td]133 [/td][td]8463 [/td][td]39.54 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]45 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MA Atherton [/td][td]1989-2001 [/td][td]115 [/td][td]7728 [/td][td]37.69 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]46 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]N Hussain [/td][td]1990-2004 [/td][td]96 [/td][td]5764 [/td][td]37.18 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IT Botham [/td][td]1977-1992 [/td][td]102 [/td][td]5200 [/td][td]33.54 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[Ted123]

Greatest England batsmen of last 40 years?

Who do you think is the greatest England batsmen in last 40 years?

Graham Gooch
David Gower
Alec Stewart
Kevin Pietersen
Alastair Cook
Joe Root
Any other

Discuss!

 

[Robert]

Who do you think is the greatest England batsmen in last 40 years?

Graham Gooch
David Gower
Alec Stewart
Kevin Pietersen
Alastair Cook
Joe Root
Any other

Discuss!

Pietersen. You could argue that the others faced better bowling but look how he could clobber McGrath, Warne and Steyn.

Though Gooch had that three year purple patch when he averaged 65 against WI, W&W, Warne.

 

[Protea Fan]

The day he's going to retire root will surpass every other english player that's inevitable

He's an assured 10k+ run scorer in both formats

 

[HuzaifaE]

Best I've seen is KP. Could play "those" sorts of knocks that only truly special players can. Had a proper aura around him and backed in up with innings no one will forget across different continents.

 

[Majestic]

Pietersen. You could argue that the others faced better bowling but look how he could clobber McGrath, Warne and Steyn.

Though Gooch had that three year purple patch when he averaged 65 against WI, W&W, Warne.

Why not AN Cook? He won you test series in Australia and England- two biggest achievements!

 

[barah_admi]

Great thread! Some pretty good discussions too and with KP having retired, even more pertinent.

Hobbs and Hammond are the historical standard bearers but I think we have to move beyond them. The game has changed so much, there are more places to play, many more different conditions and variety of bowlers.

I think the 2 stand out names of recent times are Cook and KP, if we stretch further back in time then Gooch and Gower deserve a shout too. Root however, may overtake them all one day.

 

[Ab Fan]

Post 2000s, it is between Cook and KP. Question is who would you pick between the two?

I would have gone with KP but think now Cook is making a strong claim to be right up there too.

Cant ignore longevity. Neither are ATGs though.

 

[shokz1408]

I don't know about greatest, but I know my favourite was Marcus Trescothick.

 

[UN talkz]

I don't know about greatest, but I know my favourite was Marcus Trescothick.

Mine also
He still plays first class

 

[Robert]

Why not AN Cook? He won you test series in Australia and England- two biggest achievements!

Vulnerability against top class quicks.

And he is one man, the team won those series.

 

[JattMaula]

KP was the best bat I have seen representing England.

 

[Ab Fan]

England don't have one player who gets a 9 out of 10 in last 50 years.

Other teams have many.

 

[sweep_shot]

I watch cricket since 1996 and Cook has been the England batsman for me. KP is second.

 

[andy0204]

Ian "beefy" Botham.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ian "beefy" Botham.

Yeah, only one! Rest all are under 9 for England.

For other 7 teams, there are atleast 2-3.

 

[andy0204]

Yeah, only one! Rest all are under 9 for England.

For other 7 teams, there are atleast 2-3.

Oops sorry I didn't see the title,I thought it was for greatest cricketer.

 

[Chrish]

Hobbs or Hutton.. Flip a coin.

 

[barah_admi]

Personally, it has to be KP. If Root can up his test form, he can surpass the former.

Historically, names like Hobbs and Hutton will pop up but we can see very little of them.

 

[andy0204]

Wally Hammond.
I read the stories of getting overshadowed by Bradman.

 

[Varun]

There is probably an answer to this question (and you may need to go back 100+ years to pick out a name) but they will pale in comparison to the Tendulkars / Pontings / Laras/ Sangakkaras / Kallises of this world.

England's best always fall short.

 

[Chrish]

England is the only team imo who have consistently managed to not turn into minnow.

That’s why concept of “atg” players is rubbish.

 

[Ab Fan]

There is probably an answer to this question (and you may need to go back 100+ years to pick out a name) but they will pale in comparison to the Tendulkars / Pontings / Laras/ Sangakkaras / Kallises of this world.

England's best always fall short.

From 1970s onwards, if I pick 15 names that come out as standout batters from the respective eras, then it would be:-

Viv, Gavaskar, Chappell, Javed, Border
Waugh, Lara, SRT, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid Sanga, AB, Kohli, Smith

I don't see any player from England making it into the list. KP probably was the closest but a 8 year career and inconsistency means he misses out of this list.

Aus- 5
Ind- 4
SA- 2
WI- 2
SL- 1
Pak- 1

 

[andy0204]

From 1970s onwards, if I pick 15 names that come out as standout batters from the respective eras, then it would be:-

Viv, Gavaskar, Chappell, Javed, Border
Waugh, Lara, SRT, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid Sanga, AB, Kohli, Smith

I don't see any player from England making it into the list. KP probably was the closest but a 8 year career and inconsistency means he misses out of this list.

Aus- 5
Ind- 4
SA- 2
WI- 2
SL- 1
Pak- 1

Add Chanderpaul as well

 

[MMHS]

Like many other aspects of life, English cricket glory almost ended with the Great War. I do rate KP as the best English batsman since Denis Compton (who debuted 82 years back), but he still is probably a shed below ATG status - may be within the group of Mark, Inzi, Saeed, VVS, Richardson, Jones, Thorpe, Cook, Amla, GSmith, Mahela, Gooch, Grineedge and few others, but the 15 listed above were ahead of him & I would have put MCrowe also in the upper bucket had his career not been curtailed. Even Andy probably would have been top English batsman since WWII, had he played for England instead of Zimbabwe.

 

[Ab Fan]

Add Chanderpaul as well

Yup, another high quality player. He should have batted a bit higher after Lara left. He would have been more remembered but he was a quality player.

 

[Robert]

Yup, another high quality player. He should have batted a bit higher after Lara left. He would have been more remembered but he was a quality player.

If you are including Chanderpaul you have to include the stylistically similar Boycott, who went in as opener and there faced Pollock, Proctor, Lillee, Hadlee, Imran and the great West Indians, instead of hiding at #5 below lesser players.

 

[Robert]

From 1970s onwards, if I pick 15 names that come out as standout batters from the respective eras, then it would be:-

Viv, Gavaskar, Chappell, Javed, Border
Waugh, Lara, SRT, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid Sanga, AB, Kohli, Smith

I don't see any player from England making it into the list. KP probably was the closest but a 8 year career and inconsistency means he misses out of this list.

Aus- 5
Ind- 4
SA- 2
WI- 2
SL- 1
Pak- 1

Boycott.

 

[andy0204]

Boycott.

Ken Barrington was better than Boycott if you're looking through stats.

 

[Robert]

Ken Barrington was better than Boycott if you're looking through stats.

Ok but he was finished by 1970 which is the period being discussed above. He was dropped for scoring a double century too slowly.

 

[Robert]

I tell a lie. Barrington was dropped for scoring 137 too slowly. Boycott was dropped for scoring 246 too slowly.

 

[Ab Fan]

If you are including Chanderpaul you have to include the stylistically similar Boycott, who went in as opener and there faced Pollock, Proctor, Lillee, Hadlee, Imran and the great West Indians, instead of hiding at #5 below lesser players.

He was an excellent player but agreed on that part. Won't include him in ATGs. The 15-men as I said still stands higher.

Btw, won't you pick Gooch and KP higher than Boycott?

 

[Ab Fan]

I tell a lie. Barrington was dropped for scoring 137 too slowly. <B>Boycott was dropped for scoring 246 too slowly.</B>

Very selfish cricketer,loses his team matches more than wins. Cook is better, he won you Ashes in Australia and you will remain proud for that as long as Australia don't win one in England again.

Gooch, KP and Cook are better.

 

[Robert]

Very selfish cricketer,loses his team matches more than wins. Cook is better, he won you Ashes in Australia and you will remain proud for that as long as Australia don't win one in England again.

Gooch, KP and Cook are better.

How can you lose a match by scoring more runs than the other players?

Boycott was technically excellent against top pace - the great Lillee called him “a hard man to get out” and Holding considered him England’s best batsman - while Cook was a good player of spin but vulnerable to the top quicks. Oh, and Boycott played in an away Ashes win too, scoring 657 runs average 94.

Boycott was extremely important to England - the spine of the batting, the anchor around which the shot-players could attack. Bob Willis liked playing with Boycott because he was likely to get a good rest and come back at full power.

Among England batters I have seen with my own eyes, Boycott would be #1 on the team sheet.

Boycott
Gooch
Gower
Pietersen
Thorpe
Greig (capt.)
Botham
Knott (w)
Snow
Willis
Underwood

 

[Ab Fan]

How can you lose a match by scoring more runs than the other players?

Boycott was technically excellent against top pace - the great Lillee called him “a hard man to get out” and Holding considered him England’s best batsman - while Cook was a good player of spin but vulnerable to the top quicks. Oh, and Boycott played in an away Ashes win too, scoring 657 runs average 94.

Boycott was extremely important to England - the spine of the batting, the anchor around which the shot-players could attack. Bob Willis liked playing with Boycott because he was likely to get a good rest and come back at full power.

Among England batters I have seen with my own eyes, Boycott would be #1 on the team sheet.

Boycott
Gooch
Gower
Pietersen
Thorpe
Greig (capt.)
Botham
Knott (w)
Snow
Willis
Underwood

You said he was dropped for scoring 246 slowly, so it means those runs didn't helped his team and if he was dropped then it rather costed them maybe,not sure. I just stated that.

 

[MMHS]

You said he was dropped for scoring 246 slowly, so it means those runs didn't helped his team and if he was dropped then it rather costed them maybe,not sure. I just stated that.

It was for a different reason (ENG did win that Test by 6 wickets after enforcing follow-on) - he was instructed during 2nd day Tea, to speed up after Tea (& his double) by the Captain (Illingworth probably); he first didn’t agree with that, then became even slower until England declared for like 600/4....

It was more for a disciplinary action than cricket. A decade later, Botham deliberately ran him out when Poms were setting target (against Kiwis) & Boycott was consuming balls. I believe, he was dropped again after that.

 

[Ab Fan]

It was for a different reason (ENG did win that Test by 6 wickets after enforcing follow-on) - he was instructed during 2nd day Tea, to speed up after Tea (& his double) by the Captain (Illingworth probably); he first didn’t agree with that, then became even slower until England declared for like 600/4....

It was more for a disciplinary action than cricket. A decade later, Botham deliberately ran him out when Poms were setting target (against Kiwis) & Boycott was consuming balls. I believe, he was dropped again after that.

I am aware of the second story. Thanks for telling the first one. So, that's cool! A great player, probably not a team man.

 

[Robert]

You said he was dropped for scoring 246 slowly, so it means those runs didn't helped his team and if he was dropped then it rather costed them maybe,not sure. I just stated that.

England won the match (Leeds 1967 against India) by six wickets. Boycott did not bat in the second dig and was dropped. But he came back a better player, having learned from the experience.

 

[Robert]

It was for a different reason (ENG did win that Test by 6 wickets after enforcing follow-on) - he was instructed during 2nd day Tea, to speed up after Tea (& his double) by the Captain (Illingworth probably); he first didn’t agree with that, then became even slower until England declared for like 600/4....

It was more for a disciplinary action than cricket. A decade later, Botham deliberately ran him out when Poms were setting target (against Kiwis) & Boycott was consuming balls. I believe, he was dropped again after that.

He was skipper at the time. Brearley came back and I believe Boycott continued to open the batting. He got a brave hundred in WI in 1981 and one more against the Aussies, before getting sent home in disgrace from the tour of India. He then got himself banned for touring SA and that was his 17-year on-off England career.

 

[shantanu]

Post 2000s, it is between Cook and KP. Question is who would you pick between the two?

I would have gone with KP but think now Cook is making a strong claim to be right up there too.

Cant ignore longevity. Neither are ATGs though.

In terms of impact KP outguns Cook. Infact i have seen a number of matches where english team needed to chase 300 plus and cook and bell messed it up so bad with their batting that the team could never recover. Cook was a downright mediocre ODI player. Whereas KP could dream his way to an impossible reverse swept six.
When KP (much like Yuvi) fired the other 21 gentlemen didnt really matter.
Now thats a proper player for you!

 

[MMHS]

I am aware of the second story. Thanks for telling the first one. So, that's cool! A great player, probably not a team man.

A brilliant but self-centered man. Actually, most achievers are like that - Bradman, SRT, Gavaskar, Boycott, Hadlee. In other sports as well - I am a big fan of CR - but the guy even often don't celebrate team-mates goal!!! Michel Schumachar once forced his partner (Barrichelo) to slow down and allow him to go past on the finish line; Mo Ali was legendary for his self boasting........ It really needs a big heart to be on top of your game and be a team man - Imran was one, Viv, DK Lillee, Kapil (Untill he dragged his career) ....

Boyce was a perfectionist - but not the best man for his team, Len Hutton was very much similar.

 

[Robert]

A brilliant but self-centered man. Actually, most achievers are like that - Bradman, SRT, Gavaskar, Boycott, Hadlee. In other sports as well - I am a big fan of CR - but the guy even often don't celebrate team-mates goal!!! Michel Schumachar once forced his partner (Barrichelo) to slow down and allow him to go past on the finish line; Mo Ali was legendary for his self boasting........ It really needs a big heart to be on top of your game and be a team man - Imran was one, Viv, DK Lillee, Kapil (Untill he dragged his career) ....

Boyce was a perfectionist - but not the best man for his team, Len Hutton was very much similar.

Sir Len was a good skipper though. He won in Australia - the only side to do so between 1933 and 1971. He also acted as a calming influence on the politically charged tour of WI of 1953/4.