Essex vow to improve cultural education of players after beer poured over Muslim player

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Essex have pledged to work harder on their players’ cultural education after one of them poured beer over a Muslim team-mate during Sunday’s Bob Willis Trophy celebrations at Lord’s.

A photo of the incident provoked anger in East London’s British-Asian cricket community, with one senior figure describing Will Buttleman’s decision to empty his bottle over the head of Feroze Khushi as ‘diabolical’, and calling on Essex to apologise.

They declined to do so, but admitted the incident ‘did not meet the inclusive values of the organisation’.

In a statement, the club added: ‘Essex pride themselves on their work within multi-diverse communities throughout the county and the surrounding areas.

‘For a substantial period of time, Essex have had a multi-diverse team with players from different backgrounds, religions, and races, where cricket is at the heart of these communities.

‘The club has worked extremely hard and will continue to bring cricket to anybody and everybody, and educate on diversity, but further work needs to be done across both sport and society in general, to widen people’s knowledge and make them more aware of cultural differences.’

The 21-year-old Khushi, who made his first-team debut last month but did not play in the BWT final against Somerset, appears uncomfortable as Buttleman, 20, pours beer over him – a contrast with England’s policy of allowing their Muslim players (and teetotaller Mark Wood) to step aside before champagne is sprayed.

‘I found it very, very offensive,’ said Sajid Patel, the co-founder of the National Cricket League in Essex and East London. ‘When England celebrate with champagne, like they did at the World Cup final, they have arrangements with some of the players – Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid – that they will lift the trophy before signalling for them to leave the group so they can spray the drink.

‘But the poor bloke [Khushi] is stuck in the corner of the balcony and couldn’t really move. The only thing he could have done was jump off! The photo of someone pouring alcoholic stuff on him – that was diabolical.

‘You have to question the players involved. All player associations in cricket should give their players cultural awareness lessons. It’s brilliant to see Essex win the title again, but also frightening to see this is happening.’

‘There has got to be more education – not just at Essex, but across the spectrum at county level. England have been doing the right thing, but all sports need to be better.’

The controversy takes place at a sensitive time for race relations in English cricket, after a summer in which several members of the game’s past and present BAME community have spoken out about their experiences in county dressing-rooms.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...slim-team-mate.html?__twitter_impression=true

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A significant minority of young British Muslims do drink. This seems like an unfortunate accident ( if the young player doesnt drink) or hes been accidentally exposed if he does.

Either way a small apology would have sufficed. No need for this random 3rd person to have found it deeply offensive.

Personally as a non drinker I like to quickly extricate myself from such environments because I would prefer others to enjoy themselves before worrying about offending me.
 
This "Muslim player" should grow up and not be a party pooper. Everybody's so sensitive these days. Things like this should get handled on the spot. Too minor a matter to be in the papers.
 
A significant minority of young British Muslims do drink.

Not totally openly they don't. The backlash from accepting alcohol being poured on your head isn't even worth thinking about for most young Muslims as the community remains ridiculously judgemental.

Either way this was an unfortunate incident for Feroze and Will. Essex have taken the appropriate step in the aftermath.
 
This "Muslim player" should grow up and not be a party pooper. Everybody's so sensitive these days. Things like this should get handled on the spot. Too minor a matter to be in the papers.

A photo of the incident provoked anger in East London’s British-Asian cricket community


‘I found it very, very offensive,’ said Sajid Patel, the co-founder of the National Cricket League in Essex and East London.

Nowhere does it say that the player himself complained.
 
Why are people brushing this off?. This is not a small deal. Alcohol is HARAM. and if it was spilled on me, I'd be annoyed!
 
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Why are people brushing this off?. This is not a small deal. Alcohol is HARAM. and if it was spilled on me, I'd be annoyed!

I would be annoyed too as I too consider it sinful. But beforehand I'd take show some personal responsibility and ensure I protected myself from any harm but being far away from danger.
 
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Alcohol isn't impure in the sense people make it to be. You just can't drink it. It's the intoxication that's prohibited.

As for this situation, it's the player's responsibility to let the team know in advance. The teammates are just enjoying the moment and including their buddy in the celebrations.

It would be weirder for them to exclude him.
 
Not a big deal. They probably didn't know, or forgot. Last time I checked drinking alcohol is haraam, not just touching it.

They don't need to be "vowing to better educate players"
 
That's unfortunate, it feels like they didn't know about it.

Essex have taken the right decision, these players need to know and respect other cultures.
 
Nothing from the player, but 3rd parties are angered by something that didn't happen to them or affects them. What a bunch of nonsense. The player in question is in a dressing room environment where he knows drinking occurs and also knows thats how winning teams celebrate. Unless he complained, no one should be offended or annoyed or angered by this. He got alcohol poured over his head in a moment of jubilation by a majority non-muslim team, they didn't hold his mouth open and pour it in. If I was the player, I'd be annoyed and mention it to my teammates after that I didn't appreciate it, and if it happened again I'd complain to management. I'd be exponentially more angry if outside 3rd parties started meddling in my teams celebrations.

Us Muslims need to grow up and be responsible individuals. There are far more injustices against us that needs to be addressed and angered about instead of focusing on nonsense like this. It makes us look petty and unreasonable.
 
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If this was a case of a Hindu player in Pakistan being forced to eat a kebab we wouldn't hear the end of it.
 
If this was a case of a Hindu player in Pakistan being forced to eat a kebab we wouldn't hear the end of it.

More like a case of his being hit with a flying kebab, if we're to keep the comparison going... we're really stretching it now. Storm in a teacup.
 
The more you read about English County cricket, the more you realise why England have been such a bog average team both on and off the field over so many generations.

Not that they're too flash in other sports either mind you.
 
The more you read about English County cricket, the more you realise why England have been such a bog average team both on and off the field over so many generations.

Not that they're too flash in other sports either mind you.

Ah yes, the well known/obvious link between cricketing quality and a player, almost certainly mistakenly, celebrating by pouring beer over another squad member.
 
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Seems more accidental or absent minded than malicious.
 
Ah yes, the well known/obvious link between cricketing quality and a player, almost certainly mistakenly, celebrating by pouring beer over another squad member.

It's all part of the larger jigsaw of English cricket - from giving OBEs to Michael Vaughan to celebrating their version of Aakash Chopra (Michael Atherton) as some sort of hero of the game to being a side who finds it most difficult to produce a bat who averages above 50 or a bowler who averages below 25 despite claiming that test cricket is the holy grail and watching the rest of the world produce Tendulkar/Kallis/Lara/Ponting/Sangakkara etc etc.

If they were a little less pampered in gloomy county cricket, they might end up as heavyweights at international level but here we are.
 
It's all part of the larger jigsaw of English cricket - from giving OBEs to Michael Vaughan to celebrating their version of Aakash Chopra (Michael Atherton) as some sort of hero of the game to being a side who finds it most difficult to produce a bat who averages above 50 or a bowler who averages below 25 despite claiming that test cricket is the holy grail and watching the rest of the world produce Tendulkar/Kallis/Lara/Ponting/Sangakkara etc etc.

If they were a little less pampered in gloomy county cricket, they might end up as heavyweights at international level but here we are.

What's the issue with recognising Vaughan captaining England to an Ashes win against the dominant 2005 side as a good national achievement? And you genuinely believe Aakash Chopra was as good as Atherton? Putting those aside for a minute I'm still confused about the link between any of this and cricketing quality being related to an incident of a player celebrating by pouring beer over another squad member?
 
You can take a bath in alcohol as long as you don’t drink it. As a poster said above, it’s haram to drink alcohol as it intoxicates you and makes you lose your senses momentarily.

We apply alcohol everyday on our hands, clothes, nails (women) etc. It is only Haram if you drink it.
 
Anyone remember how Moeen and Adil moved away from the champaign spraying thing at end of the World Cup? Infact their England teammates made sure of that

That is how proper teams with cultural sensitivity built in behave.

Essex players behaved like yobs and rightly reprimanded.
 
A significant minority of young British Muslims do drink. This seems like an unfortunate accident ( if the young player doesnt drink) or hes been accidentally exposed if he does.

Either way a small apology would have sufficed. No need for this random 3rd person to have found it deeply offensive.

Personally as a non drinker I like to quickly extricate myself from such environments because I would prefer others to enjoy themselves before worrying about offending me.

Reminds me of Yaya Toure of Manchester City refusing a bottle of Champagne for a man of the match performance in the premier league a few years ago because of his "religious beliefs", only to be charged with drink driving a couple of weeks later.

Agreed it should be the player who takes himself away from the celebrations if he finds it unsuitable, drinking is unfortunately a big part of British culture and in the heat of the moments players don't realize they are causing any offence by messing around like that.
 
The thing is if you play in a non Muslim country in a non Muslim team, chances are that something like this can always happen. It’s an unfortunate mistake and nothing else.
 
People saying why didnt the player move himself away from the celebrations or let the team know in advance have no idea how it things work for a young asian lad trying to make his way in english county cricket

Again it comes down to the player probably being too intimidated to come forward n not wanting to let his views known in fear of it being held against him

In the pic hes already in the corner away from the main celebration like he isnt part of the team
 
In the pic hes already in the corner away from the main celebration like he isnt part of the team

There are guys who actually played in the game who are tucked away at the back barely able to get on the balcony and you're disgruntled that Khushi, the sub fielder only got a spot in the corner of the balcony with the likes of Alastair Cook, Ryan Ten Doeschate and Adam Wheater in the equivalent spots on the other end...?
 
You can take a bath in alcohol as long as you don’t drink it. As a poster said above, it’s haram to drink alcohol as it intoxicates you and makes you lose your senses momentarily.

We apply alcohol everyday on our hands, clothes, nails (women) etc. It is only Haram if you drink it.

Wow why dont u take a bath in alcohol
 
Why are people brushing this off?. This is not a small deal. Alcohol is HARAM. and if it was spilled on me, I'd be annoyed!

Do you wear cologne? Do you you hand sanitizers? If you drinking alcohol that different. I dont see the difference between beer being poured and using hand santizers, mouthwash or using cologne.
 
Do you wear cologne? Do you you hand sanitizers? If you drinking alcohol that different. I dont see the difference between beer being poured and using hand santizers, mouthwash or using cologne.

Hmm most of my Muslim friends use non alcoholic versions of those as well.. I’m almost sure colgate mouth wash is non alcoholic..
 
If he was not forced to drink, all this is utter nonsense. How the hell is third party person community offended.
 
People saying why didnt the player move himself away from the celebrations or let the team know in advance have no idea how it things work for a young asian lad trying to make his way in english county cricket

Again it comes down to the player probably being too intimidated to come forward n not wanting to let his views known in fear of it being held against him

In the pic hes already in the corner away from the main celebration like he isnt part of the team

I highly doubt this, we are in 2020 not 1960. The other players would be confused, some Asians drink , others dont. Its up to the player to stay away, as they do in all other sports.

No sympathy from me, as none is needed, overblown issue.
 
<a href="https://freeimage.host/i/21GfBs"><img src="https://iili.io/21GfBs.md.jpg" alt="21GfBs.md.jpg" border="0"></a>
 
Good to see Essex taking action.

I think this mistake was unintentional but hopefully it will not happen again.
 
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The offending player could have apologised to his teammate and settled the matter. Third party has no role here.
 
You can take a bath in alcohol as long as you don’t drink it. As a poster said above, it’s haram to drink alcohol as it intoxicates you and makes you lose your senses momentarily.

We apply alcohol everyday on our hands, clothes, nails (women) etc. It is only Haram if you drink it.


The alcohol in aftershave etc is different to wine beer etc. You can’t pour alcohol such as wine on yourself
 
Do you wear cologne? Do you you hand sanitizers? If you drinking alcohol that different. I dont see the difference between beer being poured and using hand santizers, mouthwash or using cologne.

Ones for medical reason and others are not !
 
More like a case of his being hit with a flying kebab, if we're to keep the comparison going... we're really stretching it now. Storm in a teacup.

:))) best post in the thread hahhaa

Honestly the reaction is just way over the top, from the club and the mysterious angry community members. It seems to me that people these days are just waiting to be offended.

It's a minor incident that shouldn't have happened (assuming of course the player himself doesn't drink) but there's no need to get in a twist. There's no "racism" here - in fact the exact opposite is true - the players clearly saw the Muslim player as one of them!

There are far more important things in the world to get upset over!
 
Why are people brushing this off?. This is not a small deal. Alcohol is HARAM. and if it was spilled on me, I'd be annoyed!

“DRINKING” of alcohol is haram, taking a shower with it, is not.
Notice the difference?

So next time, if there is a swimming pool of beer, champagne wine etc, you can jump in and swim thru it, as long as you don’t gulp it down your throat.
 
While learning cultural sensitivity is always welcome, I don’t know why this is getting blown out of proportion.

I went to a restaurant and as a Vegetarian Ordered a dish without meat and they accidentally added meat in it, the manager came In apologized, replaced the dish and waived off my bill. Win-win for all. There wasn’t a RSS army waiting outside the restaurant.

I can understand if conservative Muslims or even Hindus from SC like our parents, grand parents get offended but I see that western Muslims make a big deal about it.

Alcohol being haraam is true and no different from the fact that alcohol is bad for health, plenty of non Muslims abstain from drinking. Use some common sense people.
 
Anyone remember how Moeen and Adil moved away from the champaign spraying thing at end of the World Cup? Infact their England teammates made sure of that

That is how proper teams with cultural sensitivity built in behave.

Essex players behaved like yobs and rightly reprimanded.

Nasser Hussain explaining this really well here:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 46.272%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/9997ov" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Nasser Hussain explaining this really well here:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 46.272%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/9997ov" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

Now that is a heartwarming moment.

However you can’t deny that there are idiots out there who will even question why is he posing even with guys holding champagne bottles.

That becomes an issue. And yes idiots like exist in all faiths but you get where I am coming from.
 
I don't know the player, if he had a problem with it then that's not very good. On the other hand, if people are just assuming he didn't want to take part because he's Muslim it's a bit weird
 
All this situation needed was an apology from the player.

The player apologizes and says he didn't know and vows to do better. That's all this situation needed but now its being headed into a direction where its being blown out of proportion and it turns into a satire.

Exactly what this situation did not need.
 
The independent report into historic allegations of discrimination at Essex County Cricket Club has today been published following a comprehensive and thorough investigation by Katharine Newton KC.

The report aimed to identify and, where necessary, begin to rectify the past actions that contradicted the values of equality, respect, and inclusivity, which the Club prides itself on today.

The Club is fully aware that publishing the report is the next step in upholding those values and implementation of the 15 recommendations set out in Ms Newton’s report has already begun.

Essex acknowledges her findings and are committed to addressing past incidents of discrimination against former employees. All victims involved throughout the investigation have received an apology from the Club. Their courageous actions to report incidents of discrimination during their time at Essex has been pivotal in getting to this stage.

The Club remains dedicated to taking the necessary action to make meaningful changes and prevent such incidents from occurring in the future.

Essex County Cricket Club Chair, Anu Mohindru KC, said: “Essex County Cricket Club welcomes the publishing of the independent report and it is an important step in trying to rectify the past mistakes, but most importantly creating a brighter future for everyone associated with our Club.

“It is evident from Ms Newton’s findings that there have been some fundamental errors in the past, which don’t reflect the Essex of today. Significant progress has been made across the Club to build a workplace that values and respects every individual, regardless of their background, identity, and beliefs. This extends to the fantastic community work being carried out across the region and we understand our responsibility to our local communities as the county club who represents them
 
Several ex-Essex players were victims of "racist abuse and discriminatory treatment" during their time at the club, a report has concluded.

An investigation was launched by the county in December 2021 following a series of allegations by Jahid Ahmed,Maurice Chambers and Zoheb Sharif.

No players have been named in the report by Katharine Newton KC.

Chairman Anu Mohindru said "fundamental errors" had been made in the past which did not reflect "the Essex of today".

"Significant progress has been made across the club to build a workplace that values and respects every individual, regardless of their background, identity, and beliefs," Mohindru added in a statement.

"I have personally met with the victims to apologise on behalf of the club and explain the work carried out by the board in producing the report.

"Following recommendations from the independent committee, the club is now dealing with the process concerning any individuals where sanctions may be imposed."

'Too scared to speak up'​

The complaints related to a period from the mid 1990s to 2013 and the report said they reflected a dressing room culture which regarded ethnic, racial and religious comments as "banter"

"Those at the receiving end of this treatment were too scared to speak up for fear of damaging their prospects of selection and progression," the report continues.

The investigation also found that former chairman John Faragher did use racist language during a 2017 board meeting.

Essex were fined £50,000 by England & Wales cricket board last season, after admitting two charges relating to that meeting - but although Faragher, who is also not named in the report, resigned the previous year, he denied using racist language.

Source :BBC
 
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One of the former Essex players subjected to racial abuse at the club says youngsters of today must never have to go through the same experience.

Jahid Ahmed was among three players whose allegations of mistreatment led to an independent investigation.

The inquiry's findings were published last week and the club admitted serious errors had been made in the past.

"Unfortunately these things will never leave you, it will stick with you forever," Ahmed told BBC Essex.

"When people bully you or racially abuse you, these are things you're never going to forget.

"Obviously I have to stay strong about it and even though I hate talking about it because it keeps reminding me of the past, I have to - it's for the next generation.

"I want to make sure none of these guys in the future have to face these sort of things. I want to make sure it must never happen again."

Ahmed, now 37, made his Essex debut in a County Championship match against Worcestershire in September 2005.

The seam bowler played seven first-class matches for the club in total, taking 13 wickets, along with eight limited-overs games.

After leaving the club in 2009, he made two appearances for Unicorns in the CB40 competition the following year.

The investigation, led by Katharine Newton KC, began in 2021 following allegations by Ahmed, Maurice Chambers and Zoheb Sharif, although none were referred to by name in her 38-page report.

Ahmed said he still had not seen the full report but was "relieved" to have been heard and pleased that most of his evidence had been upheld.

Essex chairman Anu Mohindru said in a statement last week: "Significant progress has been made across the club to build a workplace that values and respects every individual, regardless of their background, identity, and beliefs."

And the club are now considering possible sanctions against individuals as a result of the report.

Ahmed said he believed "institutional racism" still occurs within cricket but he hoped clubs would not look to bring in players from ethnic minority backgrounds merely as a "ticking boxes exercise".

He continued: "When I was trialling, under-16, I would have said 60, 70 or even 80% were ethnic minority kids. How many actually went on and actually became a professional cricketer? Not many."

Ahmed said many of his memories of playing for the club were negative but continued: "There were some great moments. Playing with some of the greatest names you can think of, legends of the game, for me to walk into a changing room and see these guys, I was thinking 'am I in the right place?'"

He praised former England head coach Andy Flower and his brother Grant - who both played for Essex during his time at the club - for their encouragement and support as he tried to make his way in the game, showing him what it meant to be a professional cricketer.

"Some players were looking out for me and advising me - Andy Flower, Grant Flower, these two guys were the best people I've ever met.

"They made me learn how to be a hard worker, they advised me, took me out to the gym, and practising. They were brilliant and I couldn't ask for any better than that."

The report made 15 recommendations, including the setting up of compulsory EDI (Equality, diversity and inclusion) training for everyone employed by the club and Ahmed said he hoped the right person would be chosen to oversee the various initiatives.

He added: "It needs to be someone who is qualified and has experience of these sort of things and actually has passion about it, to make changes.

"I think Essex have made mistakes with some of those things before so I hope they [have] learned from that."


BBC
 
Another ugly incident of racism
====
Essex County Cricket Club (Essex CCC) can confirm that sanctions have been imposed against the individuals implicated in Katharine Newton KC’s independent review into historic allegations of racism.

Following the publication of Ms Newton’s report on 08 December 2023, the Club commissioned an independent committee who recommended disciplinary measures.

While the individuals are not named to align with the anonymised report, Essex CCC takes allegations of racism extremely seriously and the measures are a further commitment to creating an inclusive and welcoming club for everyone.

Essex CCC have shared the measures with the England and Wales Cricket Board and reaffirms its pledge to promoting equality, diversity, and inclusion within cricket to prevent such incidents from occurring in the future.

Source: Essex Cricket
 
lol, funny article.

How is pouring beer a sin?
 
Asian cricketers wake up every day hoping to be racially abused. I think it is the best strategy to stay relevant. Must be quite a profitable business. Victim cards always sell.
 
Asian cricketers wake up every day hoping to be racially abused. I think it is the best strategy to stay relevant. Must be quite a profitable business. Victim cards always sell.
It's unfair and inaccurate to make such blanket statements; many Asian cricketers have done the hard yards and gone about their business honestly to make their way to the top ie Rashid.
 
Asian cricketers wake up every day hoping to be racially abused. I think it is the best strategy to stay relevant. Must be quite a profitable business. Victim cards always sell.

One could only say that if they were speaking for themselves. This could be your own mindset, but does that mean you speak for every Asian? :unsure:
 
It's unfair and inaccurate to make such blanket statements; many Asian cricketers have done the hard yards and gone about their business honestly to make their way to the top ie Rashid.
What do you expect from this low class individual who once quipped British Asians "deserved" racism. How can any right minded person say such a thing.

I'm sure in every situation like this there's a minority looking to feather their own nest - but this blanket generalisation that anyone bringing up the topic of racism must be a liar or compensation chaser just shows how out of touch some are to the experiences of minority cricketers in Britain.
 
What do you expect from this low class individual who once quipped British Asians "deserved" racism. How can any right minded person say such a thing.

I'm sure in every situation like this there's a minority looking to feather their own nest - but this blanket generalisation that anyone bringing up the topic of racism must be a liar or compensation chaser just shows how out of touch some are to the experiences of minority cricketers in Britain.
Agreed. Of course there will be individual cases where the race card has been milked, even in the case of Azeem Rafiq we don't know how much if it is down to sour grapes and how much is outright racism. But racism undeniably exists in wider society, if not cricket.

Our parents grew up dealing with bashing and today islamophobia is rife. I'm sure like me you probably have a large extended family and some of them will have suffered severe racist abuse at some point, whether in the workplace, education or elsewhere.


It's difficult to relate to something you've never been a victim of, which is why it's silly to make blanket statements. It's not necessary to always have a bold opinion and make outlandish statements on every matter, and sometimes a measured, considered approach is the wisest.
 
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It's unfair and inaccurate to make such blanket statements; many Asian cricketers have done the hard yards and gone about their business honestly to make their way to the top ie Rashid.
What do you expect from this low class individual who once quipped British Asians "deserved" racism. How can any right minded person say such a thing.

I'm sure in every situation like this there's a minority looking to feather their own nest - but this blanket generalisation that anyone bringing up the topic of racism must be a liar or compensation chaser just shows how out of touch some are to the experiences of minority cricketers in Britain.
One could only say that if they were speaking for themselves. This could be your own mindset, but does that mean you speak for every Asian? :unsure:
Agreed. Of course there will be individual cases where the race card has been milked, even in the case of Azeem Rafiq we don't know how much if it is down to sour grapes and how much is outright racism. But racism undeniably exists in wider society, if not cricket.

Our parents grew up dealing with bashing and today islamophobia is rife. I'm sure like me you probably have a large extended family and some of them will have suffered severe racist abuse at some point, whether in the workplace, education or elsewhere.


It's difficult to relate to something you've never been a victim of, which is why it's silly to make blanket statements. It's not necessary to always have a bold opinion and make outlandish statements on every matter, and sometimes a measured, considered approach is the wisest.
I have a lot of family in the UK, in fact, my father was the only sibling who didn’t move to the UK mainly because he landed a government job.

I spent almost ever summer of my childhood in the UK.

However, I am not a UK citizen and I have never been part of the system so I have never been a victim. Nonetheless, I have observed some of my cousins and uncles complain about racial discrimination.

I always ask them if it is so bad, why don’t they come back to Pakistan, their home country? I always get excuses in return.

The reality is that in spite of the so-called discrimination and white supremacy, the UK is one of the most tolerant and accommodating societies in the world and if this discrimination and white supremacy was such a big issue, these Asians would have gone back to where their came from but clearly, they realize that they are living a better life in the UK in spite of these issues than they would back in their home countries.

Moreover, there will always be some degree of racism for the minorities in a majority society. We don’t live in a utopian world.

The UK cricket system might not be perfect and it might not be as accommodating for the Asian cricketers as it could be, but it still a million times better than Pakistan cricket is for Pakistani minorities.

Look at the number of Asian players that have broken through the system in the UK in the last 20 years and compare it to the non-Muslims in Pakistan cricket.

I don’t deny that you and your parents suffered discrimination but in spite of this discrimination, they and you have opted to continue to live there which means that you recognize that it is not so bad as to force you to relocate to a different country or go back to your homeland and you recognize that your life in the UK under these circumstances is still better than what your life would be in Pakistan under no discrimination.

Therefore, I don’t buy the victim card. If Asians spend less time worrying about getting discriminated and looking at ways to get offended and work harder, they will be more successful than they are now.

The British government is very soft on these Asians. If I were the Home Secretary, any ungrateful Asian moaning about discrimination would be on a one way ticket back to their village in Pakistan/India or wherever they came from.
 
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The reality is that in spite of the so-called discrimination and white supremacy, the UK is one of the most tolerant and accommodating societies in the world and if this discrimination and white supremacy was such a big issue, these Asians would have gone back to where their came from but clearly, they realize that they are living a better life in the UK in spite of these issues than they would back in their home countries.

Moreover, there will always be some degree of racism for the minorities in a majority society. We don’t live in a utopian world.

The UK cricket system might not be perfect and it might not be as accommodating for the Asian cricketers as it could be, but it still a million times better than Pakistan cricket is for Pakistani minorities. Look at the number of Asian players that have broken through the system in the UK in the last 20 years and compare it to the non-Muslims in Pakistan cricket.
Pakistan's treatment of minorities is setting a low bar. We both agree it's a particularly heinous place for minorities.

I love this country make no mistake. Britain has been more successful in integrating racial minorities than much of continental Europe. There's been very few race riots of the sort seen in places like France over the years.

However I disagree minorities should live in permanent servitude. If you pay your taxes here and contribute to our society, you deserve the same levels of dignity and respect as any other citizen.

Criticising your host country is not about possessing a namak haram mentality but wanting your country to live up to its democratic values. Unlike Pakistan's faux democracy where discrimination is codified in the Constitution, discrimination is illegal under the Equalities Act in Britain.

ECB's own investigative panel upheld some of the allegations so these aren't all fantasies from attention seekers. Independent reports found English cricket remains too segregated not just by race but class and education.

I've not experienced racism thankfully. Many of the patients I've interacted with are some of the kindest souls you'd ever meet. Does it mean it's not real ? Your perspective is shaped by spending much of your time in the UK in idyllic Southern cities like Southampton.

Please come up North to some ex-industrial towns and you'll see how segregated many communities are, and the undercurrents of racism that exists. To give two examples - I worked with an Asian colleague last week who said he was told by someone in Cudworth to not "blow himself up."

In Bradford, two Asian co-workers told me how one foul-mouthed individual abused them I guess given your previous comments they "deserved" that, and should suck it up or go back to Pakistan right ?

Thankfully the former's white co-workers defended him. That wasn't the case in some of these testosterone charged cricket dressing rooms where the line between banter and crass racism was less distinguishable.
 
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Pakistan's treatment of minorities is setting a low bar. We both agree it's a particularly heinous place for minorities.

I love this country make no mistake. Britain has been more successful in integrating racial minorities than much of continental Europe. There's been very few race riots of the sort seen in places like France over the years.

However I disagree minorities should live in permanent servitude. If you pay your taxes here and contribute to our society, you deserve the same levels of dignity and respect as any other citizen.

Criticising your host country is not about possessing a namak haram mentality but wanting your country to live up to its democratic values. Unlike Pakistan's faux democracy where discrimination is codified in the Constitution, discrimination is illegal under the Equalities Act in Britain.

ECB's own investigative panel upheld some of the allegations so these aren't all fantasies from attention seekers. Independent reports found English cricket remains too segregated not just by race but class and education.

I've not experienced racism thankfully. Many of the patients I've interacted with are some of the kindest souls you'd ever meet. Does it mean it's not real ? Your perspective is shaped by spending much of your time in the UK in idyllic Southern cities like Southampton.

Please come up North to some ex-industrial towns and you'll see how segregated many communities are, and the undercurrents of racism that exists. To give two examples - I worked with an Asian colleague last week who said he was told by someone in Cudworth to not "blow himself up."

In Bradford, two Asian co-workers told me how one foul-mouthed individual called them "black b***tards". I guess given your previous comments they "deserved" that, and should suck it up or go back to Pakistan right ?

Thankfully the former's white co-workers defended him. That wasn't the case in some of these testosterone charged cricket dressing rooms where the line between banter and crass racism was less distinguishable.
And yet, if you give these two Asian co-workers a chance to go back to Pakistan, they wouldn’t take it. Why?

Because they know that they are living a better life in the UK while being racially abused every now and then than they would in Pakistan without being racially abused.

How many Asians have left the UK in the last 30 years because of racism? There will always be so degree of racism in every society. It is not reasonable to expect a racism free society.

In spite of this, the UK is one of the most tolerant and accommodating societies in the world which is illustrated by the number of Asians who are living and thriving in the UK, the number of Asians who try to get into the UK every year and the fact that no Asian has left the UK purely because of racism.

This is why, the victim mentality and the moaning by some of the Asians reflects a certain degree of ungratefulness.

A lot of these Asians are very similar to feminists. They just don’t want equality, they want preferential treatment and they keep looking for new ways to get offended.
 
And yet, if you give these two Asian co-workers a chance to go back to Pakistan, they wouldn’t take it. Why?

Because they know that they are living a better life in the UK while being racially abused every now and then than they would in Pakistan without being racially abused.

How many Asians have left the UK in the last 30 years because of racism? There will always be so degree of racism in every society. It is not reasonable to expect a racism free society.

In spite of this, the UK is one of the most tolerant and accommodating societies in the world which is illustrated by the number of Asians who are living and thriving in the UK, the number of Asians who try to get into the UK every year and the fact that no Asian has left the UK purely because of racism.

This is why, the victim mentality and the moaning by some of the Asians reflects a certain degree of ungratefulness.

A lot of these Asians are very similar to feminists. They just don’t want equality, they want preferential treatment and they keep looking for new ways to get offended.
If somebody is born and bred in the UK - why should they leave for a foreign land they've rarely, if ever, set foot in ?

Would you argue that white Boers in South Africa who report racist attacks on their farms should "go back" to the Netherlands or whatever part of Europe their ancestors came from ? South Africa is now their home just as much as it's for blacks.

If you truly understood what makes Britain a tolerant country - it isn't the mere fact we welcome immigrants onto these shores or allow them to make a living.

Tolerance doesn't start and end there. It's also about ensuring the right to speak openly, enabling their full participation in walks of life, removing barriers preventing them from maximising their talent, and yes that includes opportunities for redress if those rights are denied.

That's the democratic right of any UK citizen - not a byproduct of moaning. And if these allegations were merely fantasies from an ungrateful lot, the ECB and ICEC wouldn't have upheld many of them !

Sure discrimination cannot be eliminated any more than road accident deaths. Does that mean we stop trying to improve things for future generations ? Your logic here is about as watertight as arguing that Ben Stokes should be sacked after one Test series defeat but Joe Root should've been retained after 1 win in 17.
 
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I have a lot of family in the UK, in fact, my father was the only sibling who didn’t move to the UK mainly because he landed a government job.

I spent almost ever summer of my childhood in the UK.

However, I am not a UK citizen and I have never been part of the system so I have never been a victim. Nonetheless, I have observed some of my cousins and uncles complain about racial discrimination.

I always ask them if it is so bad, why don’t they come back to Pakistan, their home country? I always get excuses in return.

The reality is that in spite of the so-called discrimination and white supremacy, the UK is one of the most tolerant and accommodating societies in the world and if this discrimination and white supremacy was such a big issue, these Asians would have gone back to where their came from but clearly, they realize that they are living a better life in the UK in spite of these issues than they would back in their home countries.

Moreover, there will always be some degree of racism for the minorities in a majority society. We don’t live in a utopian world.

The UK cricket system might not be perfect and it might not be as accommodating for the Asian cricketers as it could be, but it still a million times better than Pakistan cricket is for Pakistani minorities.

Look at the number of Asian players that have broken through the system in the UK in the last 20 years and compare it to the non-Muslims in Pakistan cricket.

I don’t deny that you and your parents suffered discrimination but in spite of this discrimination, they and you have opted to continue to live there which means that you recognize that it is not so bad as to force you to relocate to a different country or go back to your homeland and you recognize that your life in the UK under these circumstances is still better than what your life would be in Pakistan under no discrimination.

Therefore, I don’t buy the victim card. If Asians spend less time worrying about getting discriminated and looking at ways to get offended and work harder, they will be more successful than they are now.

The British government is very soft on these Asians. If I were the Home Secretary, any ungrateful Asian moaning about discrimination would be on a one way ticket back to their village in Pakistan/India or wherever they came from.


There is no such thing as a victim culture in my mind, I just expect to live as a Britsh citizen the same way Tommy or Johnny would, with the same expectations. That is part of being British, why would it be different because of a skin colour in today's multicultural western world?
 
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. There is no such thing as a victim culture in my mind, I just expect to live as a Britsh citizen the same way Tommy or Johnny would, with the same expectations. That is part of being British, why would it be different because of a skin colour in today's multicultural western world?

If there is a mass migration of Africans to Pakistan and they become naturalized citizens and their children and their children in the future identify themselves as 100% Pakistanis like you identify yourself as British, do you think they would never be subjected to any racism, discrimination and hostility?

Of course they will be. It is inevitable. They might consider themselves as Pakistani but not every ethnic Pakistani (Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi, Balochi etc.) will view them as equals because of their African ethnicity. They will be viewed as outsiders.
 
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But you are not Tommy or Johnny. You are probably Abid or Anwar whose parents came to the UK from a Punjabi village.

You don’t look like Tommy or Johnny. You live in a country where 80% of the people are white and you are brown, so it is inevitable that you will be exposed to some degree of discrimination.

If there is a mass migration of Africans to Pakistan and they become naturalized citizens and their children and their children in the future identify themselves as 100% Pakistanis like you identify yourself as British, do you think they would never be subjected to any racism, discrimination and hostility?

Of course they will be. It is inevitable. They might consider themselves as Pakistani but not every ethnic Pakistani (Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi, Balochi etc.) will view them as equals because of their African ethnicity. They will be viewed as outsiders.

Of course racism and other forms of differentiation exist, but as part of the leading culture of the world, it is our duty as British citizens to bring light to dark places and set examples for the lesser advanced nations by addressing such issues as would be expected in the case of the OP.
 
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If there is a mass migration of Africans to Pakistan and they become naturalized citizens and their children and their children in the future identify themselves as 100% Pakistanis like you identify yourself as British, do you think they would never be subjected to any racism, discrimination and hostility?

Of course they will be. It is inevitable. They might consider themselves as Pakistani but not every ethnic Pakistani (Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi, Balochi etc.) will view them as equals because of their African ethnicity. They will be viewed as outsiders.

That's a lot of truth.

There is a lot of difference in what the government does and what citizens actually want.

World wide we are seeing natives resisting immigration, mainly illegal immigrants and even legal immigration.

The reason why someone from the subcontinent is migrating to UK is because UK is a better place to live and no matter what an immigrant may think, UK became that place because of its natives. And that's why people from the subcontinent or Africa want to go there at all costs.

Is it racism if white Brits don't want illegal immigrants into their country?
 
That's a lot of truth.

There is a lot of difference in what the government does and what citizens actually want.

World wide we are seeing natives resisting immigration, mainly illegal immigrants and even legal immigration.

The reason why someone from the subcontinent is migrating to UK is because UK is a better place to live and no matter what an immigrant may think, UK became that place because of its natives. And that's why people from the subcontinent or Africa want to go there at all costs.

Is it racism if white Brits don't want illegal immigrants into their country?

However it does become racism when you are born in that country.

Its like my daughter having no right to complain being a Canadian and having to suck it up because her grandfather chose to immigrate 70 years ago.

What should she do?

Revoke her Canadian passport and declare allegiance to Pakistan, a country she has not even visited since her birth ?
 
However it does become racism when you are born in that country.

Its like my daughter having no right to complain being a Canadian and having to suck it up because her grandfather chose to immigrate 70 years ago.

What should she do?

Revoke her Canadian passport and declare allegiance to Pakistan, a country she has not even visited since her birth ?

I don't know. This is the reason my family never migrated despite all of us being eligible for the passport of a European nation.

There is a non muslim who is in same condition in Pakistan or BD.

There is a Rohingya with the same situation in different countries.

There are many others in the same situation. Facing consequences of the decisions their ancestors took.

Any immigrant is always that. An immigrant. Your rights are subject to the wishes of the native majority.

And let this law/rule/constitution stuff not fool you. The natives made the system, the day they feel immigrants are a threat to that system, they will change it to suit themselves.
 
I am not sure why it's difficult. Simple example, my lad took 5 wickets on his debut,the tradition is to buy a jug, but I am not into buying alcohol, so instead I brought a Pizza for the whole team. The guys loved it and everyone was happy
 
If there is a mass migration of Africans to Pakistan and they become naturalized citizens and their children and their children in the future identify themselves as 100% Pakistanis like you identify yourself as British, do you think they would never be subjected to any racism, discrimination and hostility?

Of course they will be. It is inevitable. They might consider themselves as Pakistani but not every ethnic Pakistani (Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi, Balochi etc.) will view them as equals because of their African ethnicity. They will be viewed as outsiders.

I have answered this post and given fantastic examples of multicultural success in the west, but these answers are no longer available to be viewed unfortunately so the discussion is no longer of any use.
 
I don't know. This is the reason my family never migrated despite all of us being eligible for the passport of a European nation.

There is a non muslim who is in same condition in Pakistan or BD.

There is a Rohingya with the same situation in different countries.

There are many others in the same situation. Facing consequences of the decisions their ancestors took.

Any immigrant is always that. An immigrant. Your rights are subject to the wishes of the native majority.

And let this law/rule/constitution stuff not fool you. The natives made the system, the day they feel immigrants are a threat to that system, they will change it to suit themselves.

Again I can answer this, but if the examples of multicultural success which are given are going to be removed then it is pointless.
 
Essex County Cricket Club has been charged following a Cricket Regulator investigation into allegations of non-recent racist or discriminatory conduct at the club.

The club has been charged with a breach of ECB Directive 3.3 following the investigation into allegations which covered a significant period of time.

ECB Directive 3.3 concerns conduct, acts or omissions which may be prejudicial to the interests of cricket or which may bring the game of cricket or any cricketer or group of cricketers into disrepute.

It is alleged by the Cricket Regulator that there was systemic use of racist and/or discriminatory language and/or conduct at Essex, during the period between 2001 and 2010, which Essex failed to address.

An independent panel of the Cricket Discipline Commission will hear the case in due course. No further comment will be made until the case is concluded.
 
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