Explanation for why the Qur'an is a literary miracle - Hamza Tzortzis

shaykh

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Was looking at Roberts discussion on why the Quran is deemed to be a literary miracle...and tbf many Muslims are generally unaware of this argument...when in fact it is the sole argument for Islam's legitimacy...it is deemed proof...

I of course don't endorse this argument...but Hamza Tzortzis is the best presenter imho of this argument...it's a long read but a good one in terms of understanding the Muslim position of the Quran as being proof...

I have plenty of my own disagreements with this line of thought but i'll keep them to myself for now...

A lot of it is especially after the bolded parts is only of interest to the linguist so i wouldnt expect many to read it...

The main ideas are that the Quran is a unique literary form and is inimitable...
This inimitability is what apparently makes the Quran divine and miraculous...
The criteria is listed below...

What is a miracle?

The word miracle is derived from the Latin word ‘miraculum’ meaning ‘something wonderful’. A miracle is commonly defined as a violation of natural law (lex naturalis); however this is an incoherent definition. This incoherence is due to our understanding of natural laws. As Bilynskyj observes “so long as natural laws are conceived of as universal inductive generalisations, the notion of violation of a natural law is incoherent.”[9]

Natural laws are inductive generalisations of patterns we observe in the universe. For clarification; induction, also known as inductive reasoning or inductive logic, is a type of reasoning which involves moving from a set of specific facts to a general conclusion. It can also be seen as a form of theory-building, in which specific facts are used to create a theory that explains relationships between the facts and allows prediction of future knowledge. Induction is employed, for example, in using specific propositions such as: all ice I have ever touched was cold. Hence all ice is cold. Problems may occur where hasty inductive generalisations proceed from a premise about a sample to a conclusion about the population. To give a very simple example; a quarter of the pupils in a class are left handed. Therefore, a quarter of the town’s population must also be left handed.

Furthermore, if the definition of a miracle is a violation of this natural law, in other words a violation of the patterns we observe in the universe, then an obvious dilemma occurs. The dilemma is that why can’t we take this perceived violation of the pattern as part of the pattern itself? Hence, a more coherent description of a miracle is not a ‘violation’ but an ‘impossibility’. William Lane Craig rejects the definition of a miracle as a “violation of a natural law” and replaces it with the coherent definition of “events which lie outside the productive capacity of nature”.[10] In summary, this means that miracles are acts of impossibilities concerning causal or logical connections.

Why is the Qur’an a Miracle?

What makes the Qur’an a miracle, is that it is impossible for a human being to compose something like it, as it lies outside the productive capacity of the nature of the Arabic language. The productive capacity of nature, concerning the Arabic language, is that any grammatically sound expression of the Arabic language will always fall with-in the known Arabic literary forms of prose and poetry. All of the possible combinations of Arabic words, letters and grammatical rules have been exhausted and yet its literary form has not been matched linguistically. The Arabs, who were known to have been Arabic linguists par excellence, failed to successfully challenge the Qur’an. Forster Fitzgerald Arbuthnot, who was a notable British Orientalist and translator, states:

“…and that though several attempts have been made to produce a work equal to it as far as elegant writing is concerned, none has as yet succeeded.”[11]

The implication of this is that there is no link between the Qur’an and the Arabic language; however this seems impossible because the Qur’an is made up of the Arabic language. On the other hand, every combination of Arabic words and letters have been used to try and imitate the Qur’an. Therefore, this leaves only one conclusion; a Divine explanation is the only coherent explanation for this impossible Arabic literary form – the Qur’an. Hence, it logically follows that if the Qur’an is a literary event that lies outside the productive capacity of the Arabic language, i.e. an impossibility, then by definition, it is a miracle.

The challenge in the Qur’an

In the following verses Allah has challenged the whole of mankind to try and produce a single chapter like the Qur’an. This challenge, which has remained unmet, captivated the minds of the Arabs at the time of revelat-ion. They rationally assessed that if an Arab cannot challenge the Qur’an and nor could a non-Arab, then the only source of the Qur’an is the Creator. The Qur’an states:

“If you are in doubt of what We have revealed to Our Messenger, then produce one chapter like it, call upon all your helpers, besides Allah, if you are truthful.” Surah al-Baqarah (The Heifer) 2: 23.

“Or do they say: “He (Prophet Muhammad, ) has forged it (this Qur’an)?” Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recitation like it (the Qur’an) if they are truthful.” Surah at-Toor (The Mount) 52: 33-34.

According to Qur’anic commentators such as Ibn Kathir, Suyuti and Ibn Abbas, these verses issue a challenge to produce a chapter that imitates the unique literary form of the Qur’an.[12] The tools needed to meet this challenge are the finite grammatical rules and the twenty eight letters that make-up the Arabic alphabet; these are independent and objective measures available to all. The fact that it has not been matched since it was revealed does not surprise scholars familiar with the Arabic language and that of the Qur’an.

The Qur’an was revealed over 1430 years ago and the challenge to produce something like the Qur’an has remained to this day. Throughout the centuries, thinkers, poets, theologians and literary critics have attempted to challenge the Qur’an. Some of these challengers in the past have included: Musaylamah; Ibn Al-Mukaffa; Yahya ibn Al-Hakam al-Ghazal; Sayyid ‘Ali Muhammad; Bassar ibn Burd.

Without going into an extensive analysis of why Muslim and non-Muslim scholars have agreed that those who have attempted to challenge the Qur’an have failed, the following summary should suffice. Even though the challengers have had the same set of ‘tools’, which are the twenty eight Arabic letters, finite grammatical rules and the blue print of the challenge – which is the Qur’an itself; they have failed to:

1. Replicate the Qur’an’s literary form
2. Match the unique linguistic nature of the Qur’an
3. Select and arrange words like that of the Qur’an
4. Select and arrange similar grammatical particles
5. Match the Qur’an’s superior eloquence and sound
6. Equal the frequency of rhetorical devices
7. Match the level of content and informativeness
8. Equal the Qur’an’s conciseness and flexibility


The following few lines shows a translation of Musaylamah’s attempt to challenge the Qur’an by trying to write something similar to Surah al-Feel (The Elephant, 105). Another important point to consider here is that the miracle of the Qur’an is the Arabic language itself. So when the Qur’an is translated into another language, although the general meaning becomes apparent, the actual miracle is lost.

The elephant.
What is the elephant?
And who shall tell you what the elephant is?
He has a ropy tail and a long trunk.
This is a [mere] trifle of our Lord’s creations.

It can be clearly seen, with reference to the Arabic original, that the style of Musaylamah’s speech is in the kahin style of rhymed prose. It lacks informativeness and the words and phrases that have been used can be replaced with other words that will express greater meaning as well as producing a more eloquent discourse. In stark contrast, the words of the Qur’an are such that they cannot be replaced by something else.

Hence, from a literary and stylistic point of view, this attempt failed to replicate the Qur’an. The totality of every chapter is a special characteristic of the Qur’an, each having its own unique form and its unique use of literary devices. The Qur’an’s inimitable eloquence is based upon:

i. Eloquent use of language to please and persuade;

ii. Its perfect choice of words expressions with the best of verbal forms;

iii. Accuracy of meaning;

iv. Apt selection of pronouns and rhetorical devices;

v. Interrelation between style, structure and meaning.

The list above is not exhaustive and represents just some of the reasons why it has not been possible to emulate the Qur’an to this day.

The Qur’an is impossible to match linguistically

The inability to produce anything like the Qur’an, due to its unique literary form, is the essence of the Qur’anic miracle. The argument posed by Muslim theologians and philosophers is that if, with the finite set of Arabic linguistic tools at humanity’s disposal, there is no effective challenge, then providing a naturalistic explanation for the Qur’an’s uniqueness is incoherent and doesn’t explain its inimitability. This is because a human author is only able to produce the known literary forms in the Arabic language. The development of an entirely new literary form is beyond the scope of the natural capacity of any human author, hence a Divine entity, Allah, is the only sufficient comprehensive explanation. The evidence for this is that for over a millennia, the speech and writings of the Arabs have always fallen within the known forms and expressions of the Arabic language. However, the Qur’an breaks this natural pattern due to its uniqueness. Taha Husayn, a prominent Egyptian litterateur, in a public lecture summarised how the Qur’an achieves its own unique form:

“But you know that the Qur’an is not prose and that it is not verse either. It is rather Qur’an, and it cannot be called by any other name but this. It is not verse, and that is clear; for it does not bind itself to the bonds of verse. And it is not prose, for it is bound by bonds peculiar to itself, not found elsewhere; some of the binds are related to the endings of its verses, and some to that musical sound which is all its own.

It is therefore neither verse nor prose, but it is “a Book whose verses have been perfected and expounded, from One Who is Wise, All-Aware.” We cannot therefore say it is prose, and its text itself is not verse. It has been one of a kind, and nothing like it has ever preceded or followed it.” [13]

Hence, the Qur’an is truly a unique expression of the Arabic language. Nothing has come before or after it that can match its literary form and style. This next section will discuss how the Qur’an compares to Arabic poetry and prose.

Is the Qur’an poetry?

The Qur’an cannot be simply described as poetry because the totality of each surah does not conform to any of the al-bihar and in many places does not exhibit the same regular rythmic patterns of the al-bihar. Surah al-Kawthar (A River in Paradise, 108) is a good example to show how the Qur’an is not Arabic poetry:

Inna a’tayna kal kawthar
Verily, We have granted you al-Kawthar.
Fasalli li rabbika wanhar
Therefore turn in prayer to your Lord and sacrifice.
Inna shani-aka huwal abtar
For he who hates you, he will be cut off.

The syllables of these verses do not correspond to any pattern similar to the al-bihar of Arabic poetry. In fact, there is no syllabic rhythmical pattern in this surah. Mohammad Khalifa in The Authorship of the Qur’an concludes,

“Readers familiar with Arabic poetry realize that it has long been distinguished by its wazn, bahr, arud and qafiyah (i.e. exact measures of syllabic sounds and rhymes), which have to be strictly adhered to even at the expense of grammar and a shade of meaning at times. All of this is categorically different from Qur’anic literary style.” [14]

As discussed previously Arabic prose can be defined either as rhymed (saj’) or normal speech (mursal). If we compare mursal with the Qur’an, we find that the construction of the Qur’an is not just straightforward speech. This is due to the use of rhyme, rhythm, depth of meaning and unique stylistic features abundant throughout the Qur’an. Mursal is just normal speech that does not employ any of the above features. A superficial analysis on Surah al-Kawthar will conclude that it cannot be described as normal speech.

Inna a’tayna kal kawthar
Fasalli li rabbika wanhar
Inna shani-aka huwal abtar

These verses employ an end rhyme as can be seen by the letters in bold. The repetition of the ending ‘ka’ (you) is responsible for creating the chapter’s rhythm. By highlighting just this surah’s rhyme and rhythm, clearly shows that the Qur’an is not straightforward speech.

Is the Qur’an rhymed prose (saj’)?

The Qur’an has its own unique form so it cannot be described as the normal rhymed prose that is evident in other works of Arabic literature. There are three major opinions based upon modern and classical scholarship on how the Qur’an achieves its own unique literary form of rhymed prose or saj’:

1. Unique fusion of metrical and non-metrical speech

The Qur’an achieves this unique literary form by fusing together metrical and non-metrical speech. This fusion of metrical and non-metrical composition is present throughout the whole of the Qur’an and cannot be found in any Arabic text, past or present.[15] This is summarised by the famous Arabic literary scholar Arthur J. Arberry, “For the Koran is neither prose nor poetry, but a unique fusion of both.”[16]

2. The Qur’an transcends saj’

The Qur’an shares similar features with saj’, specifically in the early Makkan surahs, but it completely transcends many aspects of what defines saj’. What makes the Qur’an unique in this context is:

a. Greater tendency to mono-rhyme

The Qur’an differs from saj’ due to its use of mono-rhyme, meaning that its rhyming scheme conforms to a few rhymes rather than a selection of many rhymes. According to one analysis, just over half of the Qur’an ends with the same letter.[17] This particular use of rhyme, in a text the size of the Qur’an, has not been replicated in any Arabic text. Devin J. Stewart states:

“Qur’anic saj’ has a much greater tendency to mono-rhyme than does later saj’. A small number of rhymes…are predominant in the Qur’an whereas rhyme in later saj’ shows greater variation.”[18]

b. Does not conform to a particular style

The general description of saj’ is that it has an end rhyme. However, the Qur’an does not conform to a constant or consistent rhyme, which reflects the work of ar-Rummani[19] who states that the Qur’an’s use of language is semantically orientated and does not conform to a particular style. Semantically orientated means the use of language is driven by meaning, in other words the message that is being portrayed, in contrast to the language of the poets when they used words and phrases primarily for sound and rhythm rather than any coherent meaning.

This is also reflected by Devin J. Stewart’s analysis, he states, “The Qur’an allows inexact rhymes which are not found in later saj’”[20]

c. Greater range of saj’ phrases

The divisions of saj’ or single phrases of saj’ are called saj’aat.[21] The Qur’an differs from normal saj’ as it has a greater range of short and long saj’aat. Devin J. Stewart states, “Both in the Qur’an and in later saj’ we see that shorter saj’ is much more common, but the range in the Qur’an is greater.”[22]

d. Higher frequency of rhetorical features

The Qur’an is a ‘sea of rhetoric’. The Qur’an exhibits an unparalleled frequency of rhetorical features, surpassing any other Arabic text, classical or modern.[23] The use of rhetoric in the Qur’an stands out from any other type of discourse.[24] The following examples show that the Qur’an employs a wider range and frequency of rhetorical features than any other rhymed prose; past or present [please refer to the original Arabic to understand the examples giveb below].

i. Alliteration.

This is a literary or rhetorical stylistic device that consists of repeating the same consonant sound within several words in close succession. For example repetition of kum in the following verse:

“He will direct you to do righteous good deeds and will forgive you your sins. And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed achieved a great achievement.” Surah al-Ahzaab (The Confederates) 33: 71.

Another example of alliteration occurs in Surah al-Mursalaat when the letter meem is repeated in quick succession:

“Did We not create you from a despised water? Surah al-Mursalaat (Those sent forth) 77: 20.

ii. Analogy

This can be a spoken or textual comparison between two words (or sets of words) to highlight some form of semantic similarity between them. For example:

“And cushions set in rows. And rich carpets spread out.” Surah al-Ghaashiyah (The Overwhelming) 88: 15-16.

“Therefore, treat not the orphan with oppression. And repulse not the beggar.” Surah ad-Duhaa (The Forenoon) 93: 9-10.

iii. Antiphrasis

This is a figure of speech that is used to mean the opposite of its usual sense, especially ironically. For example:

“Then pour over his head the torment of boiling water. Taste you (this)! Verily, you were (pretending to be) the mighty, the generous!” Surah ad-Dukhaan (The Smoke) 44: 48-49.

iv. Antithesis

This is a counter-proposition and denotes a direct contrast to the original proposition. For example:

“Those who disbelieve, theirs will be a severe torment; and those who believe and do righteous good deeds, theirs will be forgiveness and a great reward.” Surah Faatir (The Originator of Creation) 35: 7.

v. Asyndeton

This term is used for a stylistic scheme in which conjunctions are deliberately omitted from a series of related clauses. For example in the following verses the subject matter switches within the same verse without any linkage:

“Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you can see. Then, He rose above the Throne. He has subjected the sun and the moon, each running (its course) for a term appointed. He manages and regulates all affairs; He explains the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in detail, that you may believe with certainty in the Meeting with your Lord.” Surah ar-Ra’d (The Thunder) 13: 2.

vi. Assonance

A refrain of vowel sounds to create internal rhyming within phrases or sentences, For example the words eeyaa bahum and hesaa bahum in the following two verses:

“Verily, to Us will be their return; Then verily, for Us will be their reckoning.” Surah al-Ghaashiyah (The Overwhelming) 88: 25-26.

vii. Cadence

Cadence is the rythmic rise or fall of the voice when a text is read aloud. This powerful feature is one of the most beautiful attractions of the Qur’an and is present throughout. It is a major phonetic and cohesive element which makes the Qur’an impossible to imitate. No other text has done this before, especially in such frequency and in combination with assonance and the many other phonetic devices such as assimilation, nasalisation, etc.

viii. Chiasmus

In rhetoric, chiasmus is the figure of speech in which two or more clauses are related to each other through a reversal of structures in order to make a larger point, for example:

“You make the night to enter into the day, and You make the day to enter into the night, You bring the living out of the dead and, You bring the dead out of the living. And You give wealth and sustenance to whom You will, without limit.” Surah aal-Imraan (The Family of Imraan) 3: 27.

ix. Epizeuxis

In linguistics, an epizeuxis is the repetition of words in immediate succession, for vehemence or emphasis. For example in Surah ash-Sharh we read:

“Verily, along with every hardship is relief, verily, along with every hardship is relief.” Surah ash-Sharh (The Opening Forth) 94: 5-6.

x. Equivoque

This is the use of a term with more than one meaning or sense. For example use of the word ‘mountains’ in the following verse:

“See you not that Allah drives the clouds gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a heap of layers, and you see the rain comes forth from between them; and He sends down from the sky hail (like) mountains, and strikes therewith whom He wills, and averts it from whom He wills. The vivid flash of its (clouds) lightning nearly blinds the sight.” Surah an-Noor (The Light) 24: 43.

xi. Homonymy

This is a group of words, that share the same spelling and the same pronunciation but can have a different meaning. For example, in the following verse the word makara can have both good and bad meaning. In the context of the verse we see the evil plotting and planning of those who wished to kill Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) as opposed to Allah’s plan to protect Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him).

“And they (disbelievers) plotted (to kill Jesus), and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of those who plan.” Surah aal-Imraan (The Family of Imraan) 3: 54.

xii. Hyperbole

A term for when statements that are deliberately exaggerated to underline a point. For example:

“Verily, those who deny Our verses and treat them with arrogance, for them the gates of heaven will not be opened, and they will not enter Paradise until the camel goes through the eye of the needle (which is impossible). Thus do We recompense the Mujrimun (criminals, polytheists, sinners).” Surah al-A’raaf (The Heights) 7: 40.

“When they came upon you from above you and from below you, and when the eyes grew wild and the hearts reached to the throats, and you were harbouring doubts about Allah.” Surah al-Ahzaab (The Confederates) 33: 10.

xiii. Isocolon

A figure of speech in which parallelism is reinforced. For example:

“Let the rich man spend according to his means; and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. Allah will grant after hardship, ease. And many a town (population) revolted against the Command of its Lord and His Messengers; and We called it to a severe account, and We shall punish it with a horrible torment (in Hell in the Hereafter). So it tasted the evil result of its affair (disbelief), and the consequence of its affair (disbelief) was loss (destruction in this life and an eternal punishment in the Hereafter). Allah has prepared for them a severe torment. So fear Allah and keep your duty to Him, O men of understanding, who have believed! Allah has indeed sent down to you a Reminder (this Qur’an).” Surah at-Talaaq (The Divorce) 65: 7-10.

xiv. Metaphor

A metaphor is a term that concisely compares two things, saying that one is like the other. For example:

“And We shall turn to whatever deeds they (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners) did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust.” Surah al-Furqaan (The Criterion) 25: 23.

“And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour. And lower to them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: “My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was young.” Surah al-Israa (The Journey by Night) 17: 23-24.

xv. Metonymy

This device is used in rhetoric in which a thing or concept is not called by its own name, but by the name of something intimately associated with that thing or concept. So for example in the following verse when describing the story of Prophet Noah (peace be upon him), the Arabic word for ark or ship is not in the verse but is implied by Allah’s mention of planks and nails:

“And We carried him on a (ship) made of planks and nails” Surah al-Qamar (The Moon) 54: 13.

xvi. Palindrome

This is a word or phrase that can be read both forwards and backwards, for example ‘race car’ or ‘radar’. The Prophet Muhammad was unlettered, so for him to construct palindromes in the Qur’an such as these would have been a very lengthy task of trial and error, especially when we consider that the Qur’an was revealed as an oral transmission and Prophet Muhammad would merely recite the revelation as soon as he had received it without editing or revising. Allah says in verse 3 of Surah al-Muddaththir (The One Enveloped, 74):

Translated into English this verse means;

“And magnify your Lord (Allah)!”

The example above of an Arabic palindrome is all the more remarkable because it maintains the Qur’an’s consistent unique style, and retains a coherent meaning which is often lost in normal Arabic poetry. When we take a closer look, we see the verse is composed of a palindrome. The word rabbaka (Lord) written backwards forms kabbara meaning ‘magnify’.

xvii. Parenthesis

This is an explanatory or qualifying word, clause or sentence inserted into a passage with which it doesn’t necessarily have any grammatical connection. For example:

“But those who believed, and worked righteousness – We tax not any person beyond his scope – such are the dwellers of Paradise. They will abide therein forever.” Surah al-A’raaf (The Heights) 7: 42.

xviii. Polyptoton

This stylistic scheme occurs when words are derived from the same root and repeated (e.g. ‘strong’ and ‘strength’). In the Qur’an for example Allah says sabab-nal maa a’ sabbaa and shaqaqq-nal arda shaqqaa:

“We pour forth water in abundance. And We split the earth in clefts.” Surah ‘Abasa (He Frowned) 80: 25-26.

xix. Rhetorical questions

This type of question is a figure of speech in the form of a question posed for its persuasive effect without the expectation of a reply (for example, Why me?). Rhetorical questions encourage the listener to think about what the (often obvious) answer to the question must be. When a speaker states, “How much longer must our people endure this injustice?”, no formal answer is expected. Rather, it is a device used by the speaker to assert or deny something. In the Qur’an, Allah uses rhetorical questions in many places, for example:

“Is there any reward for good other than good?” Surah ar-Rahmaan (The Most Gracious) 55: 60.

“Then he turned to their alihah (gods) and said: “Will you not eat (of the offering before you)?” Surah as-Saaffaat (Those Ranged in Ranks) 37: 91.

xx. Synecdoche

This is closely related to metonymy and is a figure of speech that denotes a part of something but is used to refer to the whole thing. For example ‘a pair of hands’ referring to a worker. In the following Qur’anic verse there are many different aspects to consider. Firstly, a synecdoche when the word raqaba meaning ‘neck’ is used to refer to the whole ie. a slave. Then the charitable act itself being likened to a steep path, in other words a difficult course of action.

The psycholinguistics behind the verse alone opens up for consideration various aspects of human psychology, behaviour and comprehension in relation to language. Lastly, the use of the word raqaba achieves the effect of maintaining the rhyme created by the previous key word, ‘aqaba (the steep path).

“And what will make you know the path that is steep? (It is) freeing a neck.” Surah al-Balad (The City) 90: 12-13.

3. Qur’an bound stylistic variations

Stylistic variation is the use of different features of language in a myriad of ways. Continuing with the comparison between the unique literary form of the Qur’an and Arabic rhymed prose or saj’, we find that the Qur’an uses literary and linguistic devices in such a way that has not been used before with unparalleled communicative effect.

The use of stylistic variation or stylistic differences, includes, but is not limited to:

1. Semantically driven assonance and rhyme
2. Grammatical shifts (iltifaat, in Arabic)
3. Interrelation between sound, structure and meaning
4. Choice of words
5. Unique linguistic genre
6. Word order

To illustrate these points further take the following two Qur’anic verses which are structurally identical but stylistically distinct:

“These are the limits set by God, so do not approach them”[25]

“These are the limits set by God, so do not transgress them”[26]

The first verb ‘approach’ occurs in the context of following a very serious prohibition in the same verse:

“…but do not associate with your wives while you are in spiritual retreat in the mosques.”[27]

The second verb ‘transgress’ of the second verse entails flexibility signified by the conjunctions in the previous phrases ‘either’ and ‘or’:

“A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness.”[28]

In the context of stylistic variation the above example can provide empirical evidence for the view that the Qur’an uses words and phrases specifically to provide an accurate and intended meaning.

How are stylistic variations unique to the Qur’an?

The Qur’an achieves its unique literary form by transcending the use of language that is common to saj’. S. M. Hajjaji-Jarrah in her article “The Enchantment of Reading: Sound, Meaning, and Expression in Surat Al-Adiyat”, which discusses how the Qur’an achieves its uniqueness due to stylistic differences, states: “…Qur’anic ‘Arabiyya brings forth a dazzling assembly of word meaning and sound defying the conventions of both the Arabian saj’ and the literary rules of classical Arabic literature”.[29]

The following examples provide linguistic and literary evidence for the Qur’an’s stylistic distinction.

Example 1: Word order, sound and meaning

The following is an example of how the Qur’an combines words, sounds, meaning and order to achieve its communicative goal, the result of which is sublime rhetoric[30], unsurpassed eloquence and a unique literary form. Let us examine the text from verses 3 and 4 of Surah aal-Imraan (The Family of Imraan, 3):

“…And He sent down the Torah and the Gospel, Aforetime, as a guidance to mankind. And He sent down the Criterion…”

Working with the English transliteration the verse reads;

“wa-anzala at-tawrata waal-injeela min qablu hudan lilnnasi wa-anzala al-furqana”

An alternative order of the words is possible:

“wa-anzala at-tawrata waal-injeela waal-furqana min qablu hudan lilnnas”

However, when compared to the original this alternative arrangement has some flaws. Firstly, the alternative arrangement lacks rhythm, compared to the original Qur’anic structure, and it is phonetically inferior. Secondly, this arrangement has led to a disturbance in the meaning. This is due to the fact that the second use of the key word anzala (revealed) has been taken out and the final word al-furqana (the Criterion), whose position has a crucial semantic value, has been placed in the middle of the sentence.

In the original Qur’anic sentence, the repetition of the word anzala and the placement of al-furqana are essential devices employed to enhance the communicative, psycholinguistic and rhetorical effect. The repetition of the word anzala is to confirm the revelation of the Criterion and that it is indeed a Divine scripture while the placement of the word al-furqana at the end of the sentence is to confirm that the Criterion is the last and final scripture.[31] Abd al-Qadir Ahmad ‘Ata refers to examples like these as ‘the chemical composition of the Qur’an which indicate the delicate and balanced stylistic variation in the Qur’an.[32]

Example 2: Grammatical Shift (iltifaat)

Professor Abdel Haleem in his article ‘Grammatical Shift for Rhetorical Purposes: Iltifaat and related features in the Qur’an[33], highlighted another inimitable feature of the Qur’an, the extensive use of grammatical shifts. This feature is an effective rhetorical device that enhances the texts literary expression and achieves the communicative goal;[34] it is an accepted, well researched part of Arabic rhetoric. One can find references in the books of balagha (Arabic Rhetoric) by al-Athir, Suyuti and Zarkashi.[35]

These grammatical shifts include changes in person, change in number, change in addressee, change in tense, change in case marker, using a noun in place of a pronoun and many other changes.[36] An example of this complex rhetorical feature is exhibited in the following verse. It changes to talking about Allah, in the third person, to Allah Himself speaking in the first person plural of majesty:

“There is no good in most of their secret talk, only in commanding charity, or good, or reconciliation between people. To anyone who does these things, seeking to please God, We shall give a rich reward.” Surah an-Nisaa (The Women, 4): 114.

Surah al-Kawthar provides another good example of the use of grammatical shift.

“Verily, We have granted you al-Kawthar. Therefore turn in prayer to your Lord and sacrifice. For he who hates you, he will be cut off.” Surah al-Kawthar (A River in Paradise) 108: 1-3.

In this surah, there is a change from the first person plural ‘We’ in the first line to the second person ‘…your Lord’. This change is not an abrupt shift; it is calculated and highlights the intimate relationship between Allah and Prophet Muhammad . The use of ‘We’ as described above is used to emphasize the Majesty, Power and the Ability of Allah, whereas ‘Your Lord’ is used to indicate and emphasise intimacy, closeness and love; this is an apt use as the preceding concepts are about prayer, sacrifice and worship ‘So to your Lord pray and sacrifice’. Furthermore, the purpose of this chapter is also to console Prophet Muhammad; using intimate language enhances the psycholinguistic effect. A final shift occurs from the second person to the third person singular.

These shifts contribute to the dynamic style of the Qur’an and are obvious stylistic features and accepted rhetorical practice. The Qur’an uses this feature in such a way that conforms to the theme of the text (semantically driven) while enhancing the impact of the message it conveys. It is not surprising that Neal Robinson in his book ‘Discovering the Qur’an: A Contemporary Approach to a Veiled Text’ concludes that the grammatical shifts used in the Qur’an, “…are a very effective rhetorical device.”[37]

The Qur’an is the only form of Arabic prose to have used this rhetorical device in an extensive and complex manner. Professor Abdel Haleem states, “…it employs this feature far more extensively and in more variations than does Arabic poetry. It is, therefore, natural to find…no one seems to quote references in prose other than from the Qur’an.”[38]

Hence, the Qur’an is stylistically distinct from any known form of Arabic speech. It uses linguistic and literary devices in such a way that have not been used before.

Example 3: Qur’anic precision

A further example of Qur’anic precision is found in a verse that mentions two of the attributes of Allah; al-Ghafoor (The Forgiving) and ar-Raheem (The Merciful). In the Qur’an we find that these two names of Allah are mentioned together more than seventy times, with the word al-Ghafoor always preceding ar-Raheem. However, in Surah Saba verse 2 (see below), we find that ar-Raheem is mentioned before al-Ghafoor. So the question arises as to why this might be.

“In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are to Allah, to Whom belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. His is all praise and thanks in the Hereafter, and He is the All-Wise, the Well-Acquainted (with all things). He knows that which goes into the earth and that which comes forth from it, and that which descends from the heaven and that which ascends to it. And He is the Most Merciful, the Oft-Forgiving.” Surah Saba (Sheba) 34: 1-2.

If we examine the content and structure of the whole verse in detail we see that the two attributes of Allah ‘Mercy and Forgiveness’ alternate as shown in the representation below. Allah begins verse two with the word “He knows” which has a direct connection with why ar-Raheem is mentioned first in this case.

If we carefully analyse this verse Allah says that “He knows that which goes into the earth…” If we consider the types of things that go into the earth such as seeds that are buried in the ground, worms, insects, drops of rain and the fact that human beings will also go into the earth when they die. Once in the ground we will need to rely on the Mercy of Allah. Then Allah says, “and that which comes forth from it”. Vegetation, springs and rivers gushing forth are examples of all the types of things that come out of the earth. Similarly human beings will too come out from the earth when they are resurrected from their graves. At that time we will need to rely on Allah’s attribute of al-Ghafoor (forgiveness).

The verse continues and Allah says “and that which descends from the heaven”. Consider for a moment what comes from the skies such as drops of rain, Divine commandments in the form of revelations, Allah’s graces, favours and provisions. We see that all of these things are a mercy from Allah. Rain is a mercy, revelation is a mercy and provisions are a mercy. The verse then ends with “and that which ascends to it. And He is the Most Merciful, the Oft-Forgiving”. Our deeds, supplications, and souls depart this word and all ascend to heaven and what is required in these instances from Allah is his forgiveness. Thus, each part of the verse connects with these two names and the verse has to end on ar-raheemul ghafoor in contrast to all other occurrences, in order to maintain the correct sequence.

This verse provides another excellent example of the precision and balance present throughout the Qur’an, coupled with a level of awareness of what is being said and the implications behind the words that would have been impossible for Prophet Muhammad to produce by himself and remain consistent over a period of twenty three years.

Example 4: Maintenance of rhythm

An example of textual precision and maintenance of rhythm in the Qur’an is found within the story of Prophet Moses (Musa, peace be upon him). Prophet Moses is mentioned together with his brother Prophet Aaron (Harun, peace be upon him) in numerous places in the Qur’an. So for example in Surah A’raaf (The Heights), verses 121 and 122 we read:

“They said: “We believe in the Lord of the Alamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists). The Lord of Moses and Aaron.”

Note how all of the verses leading up to the mention of the Prophets Moses and Aaron end with the letter noon. Usually when we read the story about their meeting with the Pharaoh and his magicians as in the above verse, Prophet Moses is always mentioned before Prophet Aaron. However, there is one exception. In Surah TaaHaa (20) verse 70 Allah says:

“So, the magicians fell down prostrate. They said: “We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses.”

The order of the names is different in this verse so that the rhythm of the recitation is maintained. The previous Qur’anic text shows that the verses preceding verse 70 all end on the letter alif. Hence, ending verse 70 with the name Musa, helps to maintain this style and rhythm.

Example 5: Singular and plural words

One of the many fascinating aspects of the Qur’an is that it never ceases to astound those who study it. As each layer of knowledge is unravelled further levels of understanding and comprehension are revealed. The fact that Allah the Creator has a very fine and subtle knowledge of human nature in terms of how we think and feel is highlighted throughout the Qur’an. For example, whenever Allah uses the word sama’ (listen) in the Qur’an it is usually in its singular rather than the plural form as in Surah al-Baqarah (The Heifer, 2) verse 7 we read;

“Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allah’s Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.”

The highlighted text above shows that although the words qoloobihim (hearts) and absaarihim (eyes) are in their plural forms the word sami’him (hearing) is singular. This is due to the fact that if we listen to speech, our hearts and minds all react on an individual basis, whereby we will translate and understand the speech according to our own personal understanding and comprehension of what was said. This type of subtlety is lost when the Qur’an is translated into another language, so the true linguistic miracle and magnificence of the Qur’an can only be fully appreciated from the original Arabic.

Another example of the use of singular and plural words occurs in Surah ash-Shu’araa (The Poets, 26). The following verses reveal how the people of the Prophets Noah and Lot (peace be upon them) and the people of Ad, Thamud and al-Aikah all denied the Messengers of Allah.

“The people of Noah denied the Messengers.” Surah ash-Shu’araa (The Poets) 26: 105.

“(The people of) Ad denied the Messengers” Surah ash-Shu’araa (The Poets) 26: 123.

“(The people of) Thamud denied the Messengers.” Surah ash-Shu’araa (The Poets) 26: 141.

“The people of Lot denied the Messengers.” Surah ash-Shu’araa (The Poets) 26: 160.

“The dwellers of Al-Aikah denied the Messengers.” Surah ash-Shu’araa (The Poets) 26: 176.

In all of these verses the apparent meaning is clear that all of these people denied their Messengers. However the choice of the plural word al-mursaleen (Messengers) rather than singular ar-rasool is more appropriate here. This is due to the fact that even if you deny one of Allah’s Messengers it is as if you have denied them all because they all came with the same message, namely, Islam. As in the following verse where Allah says;

“Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His messengers (by believing in Allah and disbelieving in His messengers) saying, “We believe in some but reject others,” and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment. And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of them (messengers), We shall give them their rewards; and Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Surah an-Nisaa (The Women) 4: 150-152.

Example 6: Qur’anic imagery and word choice

There are many examples in the Qur’an of a particular word being used rather than another word with a similar meaning that phonetically enhances the description in the text during its recitation. For instance, Allah says in Surah al-Hajj (The Pilgrimage, 22) verse 31:

“Hunafa’ Lillah (i.e. worshipping none but Allah), not associating partners (in worship) to Him; and whoever assigns partners to Allah, it is as if he had fallen from the sky, and the birds had snatched him, or the wind had thrown him to a far off place.”

Here (hunafa’ lillah) means, sincerely submitting to Him alone, shunning falsehood and seeking the truth. Allah then says “not associating partners unto Him”. Then Allah gives a likeness of the idolator in his misguidance and being doomed and being far away from true guidance, and says: whoever assigns partners to Allah, it is as if he had fallen from the sky, and the birds had snatched him, or the wind had thrown him to a far off place.”

This whole passage conjures up a vivid scene of a person falling down from the sky from a great height about to be violently broken into pieces or he may be swept away by the wind or thrown into a bottomless depth. What is striking is the rapid and violent movement, with scenes happening in quick succession and then disappearing completely.

The interesting point to note here is that the verse ends with the word saheeq, rather than an alternative word, baeed. Both of these have a very similar meaning: remote, distant and faraway. However, the word saheeq is used because it ends in the letter qaf, which is a ‘heavy’ letter in the Arabic alphabet as opposed to the ‘lighter’ daal at the end of the word baeed. In this case the verse ends on a much harder note, which strengthens and underlines the stark events being portrayed in the verse.

The verse represents a very accurate picture and apt description of one who associates partners with Allah. He falls from the sublime height of faith to land in utter destruction. Finishing the verse with the letter qaf shows the severity of the matter, and that when the person is thrown to the faraway place the landing is not soft, rather he is smashed on the ground with a crack. This type of example highlights further the unique inter-relationship between the precise choice of Qur’anic words, their resonance and how this effects the meaning of a particular verse.

Example 7: The challenge

Surah al-Kawthar is the shortest surah in the Qur’an with only three short verses and like all of the other chapters in the Qur’an, has an unmatched selection of words, pronouns, word order and meaning. Moreover, anyone attempting to take up the challenge of the Qur’an only needs to produce something comparable to it. By briefly analysing this chapter’s first verse it provides an insight into how this matchless and eloquent discourse is achieved.

i. Emphasis and choice of pronoun

Verily, We have granted you al-Kawthar.
Inna a’tayna kal kawthar
Therefore turn in prayer to your Lord and sacrifice.
Fasalli li rabbika wanhar
For he who hates you, he will be cut off.
Inna shani-aka huwal abtar

The use of the words (Verily, We) at the start of al-Kawthar is emphatic; also the plural is used to indicate power, certainty, ability, greater quantity or sometimes to stress the status and greatness (li-ta’zim al-mutakallim aw ihtimaman bidhikr rabbika wa ta’ziman). This is an apt choice of pronoun as its persuasive force can not be matched by any other pronoun. The effect is “The Creator, who has power to do anything, has indeed given you….”

ii. Word choice

The term a’tayn has been used instead of aataaina’ because of a subtle difference. The difference as defined by Ibn Manzoor in his Lisan al-Arab is that the Qur’anic choice indicates ‘to hand over with one’s own hand’ whereas the non Qur’anic selection does not provide this meaning.

This choice of word is apt as it strengthens the sentence emphasizing the surety of giving, ability, greatness, power and intimacy (to console and strengthen Prophet Muhammad ). The verb has also been used in the past tense which indicates that it has already happened and makes it definitive. This further accentuates the meaning of surety, power and greatness. This also expresses certainty of a promise; in this case Prophet Muhammad will have al-Kawthar, or abundance.

The root stem for the word al-Kawthar are the letters kaf, tha and ra (kathara). This signifies plentiful, multitude, overflowing, rich, unstinting and unending. Other derivations of this root include:

1. katha-ratun: Multitude

2. katheerun: Much, many, numerous

3. ak’tharu: More numerous (emphasis)

4. kath-thara: To multiply

5. takathur: Act of multiplying

6. is-thak-thara: To wish for much

Al-Qurtubi states that the Arabs used ‘kawthar’ to denote anything which is great in quantity or value. This word can not be replaced with another, as its meaning can not be matched equally with any other Arabic word.

iii. Word arrangement

The placement of al-Kawthar is an attribute; plentiful and abundance. However, this word has been placed at the end of the verse with no word after to be attributed to it, as al-Qurtubi points out, this indicates that Prophet Muhammad has been given an abundance of everything. Islamic scholars state that if Allah had bestowed one thing in great multitude then that would have been mentioned. How-ever, due to giving Prophet Muhammad an abundance of everything, nothing is mentioned to indicate everything or many things. Also, within the science of eloquence and rhetoric, mentioning all things would be superfluous and not a good use of language.

iv. Multiple meaning

The word al-Kawthar has been given multiple meanings by the scholars. These meanings include:

1. A river of Paradise from which rivers flow.

2. The fountain on the Day of Judgement from which Prophet Muhammad will quench the thirst of his people.

3. His prophethood.

4. The Qur’an.

5. The way of life called Islam.

6. The multitude of his companions; no other prophet had as many companions as Prophet Muhammad.

7. Elevated status. No one is more researched, more mentioned, more praised and more loved than Prophet Muhammad.

8. It is a multitude of goodness.

Just by briefly looking at Surah al-Kawthar’s first line it can been seen that the words, word order and pronoun have been carefully selected to enhance the meaning. Any attempt to change the words or word order will truly cease to sound like the Qur’an, and the powerful meaning would be lost. As we have discussed, the Qur’an is unique in that it does not follow the normal pattern of Arabic poetry and prose. The flow of the Qur’an is not interrupted by the repeated detail contained in many of its verses. In fact, part of the beauty of the Qur’an can be attributed to its precise detail and accuracy.

Hence, the overview presented here shows how the Qur’an transcends all forms of Arabic rhymed prose (saj’). In fact theologians and Arab linguists hold that the Qur’an does not contain just ordinary saj’, and is in fact unique to all types of saj’. Their reasoning is that in the Qur’an, the use of language is semantically orientated and its literary structure is distinct, whereas in saj’, conformity to style is a primary objective.

No human being has ever composed a book that discusses such diverse topics in a language with so much rhythm, beauty and style. Further examples of the Qur’an’s unique literary form are too many and varied to list and are beyond the scope of this book, but can be found in a multitude of other works on this subject.

In conclusion, the Qur’an is a literary and linguistic mira-cle. It has challenged those who doubt its Divine author-ship and history has shown that it is indeed a miracle as there can be no natural explanation to comprehensively explain its unmatched unique expression. As tangible signs, Qur’anic verses are expressive of an inexhaustible truth. They signify meanings layered within meanings, light upon light and miracle after miracle. Examples of other miraculous aspects of the Qur’an, such as the scientific accuracy where it deals with many natural phenomena, can be found in “The Islam Guide, pp. 191-264”.[39]


http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/essays-articles/exploring-the-quran/the-inimitable-quran/
 
It is impossible for any human being to replicate what Shakespeare did, his mastery with words and phrases was on another level. It is impossible for human beings to replicate what Da Vinci or Picasso or Michelangelo did. Through history there have been geniuses who made work of art no other human beings could replicate. Are they all miracles?

The problem is, if you can explain miracles it won't be a miracle any more, so there is no point. If you believe it is miracle then do so, explaining will not make anyone think a book is a miracle.
 
1430+ years and still counting .....

I think its more easy for others becoz the Miracle have the "explanation" now.
so its still an open challenge if someone can make a book or even one verse like that.

and God knows Best ....
:)
 
It is impossible for any human being to replicate what Shakespeare did, his mastery with words and phrases was on another level. It is impossible for human beings to replicate what Da Vinci or Picasso or Michelangelo did. Through history there have been geniuses who made work of art no other human beings could replicate. Are they all miracles?

The problem is, if you can explain miracles it won't be a miracle any more, so there is no point. If you believe it is miracle then do so, explaining will not make anyone think a book is a miracle.

I get your point but those people you mentioned were masters of their field and their work arguably might not be replicated ever. But in this case, the fact is that the Prophet Muhammad was an illiterate man and rationally speaking it is next to impossible for an illiterate person to come up with this literary master piece.
Unless and until you have some other theory or proof about the scriptor of Quran, the literary work does surprise the human knowledge.
 
I get your point but those people you mentioned were masters of their field and their work arguably might not be replicated ever. But in this case, the fact is that the Prophet Muhammad was an illiterate man and rationally speaking it is next to impossible for an illiterate person to come up with this literary master piece.
Unless and until you have some other theory or proof about the scriptor of Quran, the literary work does surprise the human knowledge.

We have a similar story in Hinduism, about Valmiki who was an illiterate dacoit who went on to write Ramayan, in sanskrit, which is considered one of the masterpieces of all time.

BTW, genius has nothing to do with education. Many of the top geniuses in their field did not have any training or education yet created masterpieces. Michael Faraday did not have any formal education yet he revolutionized the field of electricity, magnetism and chemistry. Srinivasa Ramanujan taught himself math and is known as one of the foremost mathematical geniuses with his formulas being used in almost everything from string theory to crystallography. Gregor Mandel was an uneducated monk. Yet his work is how we know how genetics work and most of what we know about DNA and inheritance is all thanks to him. You cannot underestimate the capabilities of a human being.

My point is not to put religion down. However stop trying to justify miracles and otherworldly things using human knowledge and science. It will never work. Faith is separate from proof.
 
I get your point but those people you mentioned were masters of their field and their work arguably might not be replicated ever. But in this case, the fact is that the Prophet Muhammad was an illiterate man and rationally speaking it is next to impossible for an illiterate person to come up with this literary master piece.
Unless and until you have some other theory or proof about the scriptor of Quran, the literary work does surprise the human knowledge.

Illiterate people can still possess a rich vocabulary...remember Muhammad never wrote a thing...his scribes did...his being illiterate doesn't mean he was unable to convey his opinions effectively...he was able to speak...he was a tradesman who owned his own business and regularly communicated with people...his wife was wealthy...he wasnt some peasant who was mute...this illiteracy argument is extremely weak...
 
Illiterate people can still possess a rich vocabulary...remember Muhammad never wrote a thing...his scribes did...his being illiterate doesn't mean he was unable to convey his opinions effectively...he was able to speak...he was a tradesman who owned his own business and regularly communicated with people...his wife was wealthy...he wasnt some peasant who was mute...this illiteracy argument is extremely weak...

May be the scribes made up the poetry .Maybe Muhammad was a gifted poet.How does this make the Koran divine?Believe if you will believe -dont make up stupid stuff about poetry . Have you read all the poetry in the world to judge the Koran as the best?
 
May be the scribes made up the poetry .Maybe Muhammad was a gifted poet.How does this make the Koran divine?Believe if you will believe -dont make up stupid stuff about poetry . Have you read all the poetry in the world to judge the Koran as the best?

Lol where have I claimed the Quran to be divine?...you're obviously new here...

The OP is presenting the Islamic argument on literary miracle...its not something I agree with in the slightest but am displaying it...

But that said you evidently didn't read the link...the argument presented is one of inimitability...

The point I presented about Muhammads illiteracy is that its perfectly plausible for an illiterate man to be able to create poetry...he never wrote a word down himself...and illiteracy doesnt mean he was unable to convey wide ranging opinions...people speak as though the Quran was something he wrote and was done quickly...he never wrote a thing and this one thing was over a twenty three year period...
 
How can anything that condones slavery be divine? Muhammad could have abolished slavery altogether in the region since he took over most of Arabia but he continued to take part in it. Maybe he was more reasonable than the other Arabian leaders of the time but the slavery stuff hasn't stood the test of time and I therefore conclude the Quran is a book of its time rather than timeless.

World have now changed from 1400 years back.Nowadays a lot of people have servants
 
Yes but they don't have sex with their servants after killing their servants' husbands. Quran is a guide book on how to live in 7th century Arabia not in the 21st century

Believe whatever you want to and let other believe what they want to.There were no female slaves at that time.
 
Lol are you honestly comparing slavery to a job?...

How different slavery is to servants? Servants are just more advanced type of slavery and believe me I have seen people in this century beating their servants
 
There is nothing about that in Quran stop misinterpreting Islam and Quran

I really don't want to turn this into a slavery thread...if you have something to comment on literary miracles then contribute...if not then leave the thread...
 
I really don't want to turn this into a slavery thread...if you have something to comment on literary miracles then contribute...if not then leave the thread...

If you have something to comment on Cricket section then contribute........if not then leave this forum and join any other Anti-Muslim forum
 
If you have something to comment on Cricket section then contribute........if not then leave this forum and join any other Anti-Muslim forum

This is the Timepass section...I am not required to discuss cricket in this section...again if you have something to contribute to this topic then comment...otherwise do one...
 
You just can't handle the truth and the fact that you have been lied to your whole life.

Slavery and sex with slaves is permitted in Islam. Yes it was a different world in 7th century arabia, but this is the 21st century and Islam's teachings are largely obsolete.

It is only permitted with the war victims slaves not any slave.How could you tell that it is a lie? I have already told you that if you believe that a Muslim have no right to preach it on non Muslims then Atheists also do not have any right to force religious people to stop believing in God
 
This is the Timepass section...I am not required to discuss cricket in this section...again if you have something to contribute to this topic then comment...otherwise do one...

You have done nothing on cricket forum.You have to realize that this is a Cricket forum first then a Time Pass or anything else.I contribute in every forum fyi
 
I'm not telling you to stop believing in God. I'm stating that human slavery is not acceptable in any time whether it is during peace or war time. You can still believe in God without believing in religion.

Tell me, are you scared of burning in hell fire?

Ofcourse who is not scared of burning in fire.Human slavery is not acceptable but then in 7th century it was a need for a human.To your statement that Islam have obsolete teachings no it doesn't have obsolete teachings.Two or three verses can comprehend the whole book.If you do not like to read that part don't read it
 
You only believe because you are scared of what will happen if you don't believe. You got conned big time.

No it does give me happiness when I am sad and it is like light for me in the darkness.I know that no one is perfect so everyone would be burnt in hell for a long time or shorter.I was going with the context in this world that many people are scared of being burnt
 
How different slavery is to servants? Servants are just more advanced type of slavery and believe me I have seen people in this century beating their servants

It is illegal to beat servants

Countries which still have such practices are backwards. In Western world maids are paid very highly and treated very well. How you can compare them with slaves is beyond me

And those who treat servants as slaves and misbehave are wrong
 
I will just say one thing. If it were not for laws like blasphemy, even the Quran would have been scrutinized just like the Bible. However what happens now is that people who praise the miracles are held in respect but those who dare to criticize can even be killed. In such an environment it is not possible to logically look at any miracle
 
How different slavery is to servants? Servants are just more advanced type of slavery and believe me I have seen people in this century beating their servants

If u really don't know the difference between these two then u certainly aren't educated enough to discuss this matter.

I would have written a detailed paragraph regarding this matter but I don't think I should do that. Besides shykh has already requested everyone to refrain themselves from derailing this thread. :)
 
Was looking at Roberts discussion on why the Quran is deemed to be a literary miracle...and tbf many Muslims are generally unaware of this argument...when in fact it is the sole argument for Islam's legitimacy...it is deemed proof...

Interesting.

My view is that the argument is circular and self-justifying. If somebody writes a similarly complex literary work, it will invalidate God, so it will have to be judged to have failed by the Muslims doing the judging.
 
I will just say one thing. If it were not for laws like blasphemy, even the Quran would have been scrutinized just like the Bible. However what happens now is that people who praise the miracles are held in respect but those who dare to criticize can even be killed. In such an environment it is not possible to logically look at any miracle
The most number of anti Islam books have been written in the past 50 years or so, you keep coming with this argument but there is no truth behind it.
 
I bet some people found this artcle logically sound and enlightening, good for them. But for me, it was long and pointless blabber that further highlights how obsessed people can be about proving their religion to be the ultimate divine word.
 
Interesting.

My view is that the argument is circular and self-justifying. If somebody writes a similarly complex literary work, it will invalidate God, so it will have to be judged to have failed by the Muslims doing the judging.

Herein lies the problem...

Muslims claim no-one has met the challenge...when in fact lots of people throughout history state that they have...

But even then what is the challenge?...what does it mean to create a verse like the Quran...its deliberately left vague in the Quran...nowhere does it speak about rhetorical devices...or the innovation of a new literary form...

And tbf a new literary form is not miraculous...he combined poetry and prose...big deal...if anything it made it easier to write...languages by their nature constantly evolve...how is changing aspects of the language miraculous?...surely changing the language is actually just poor writing? :) ...

And lets say a linguistic miracle is a miracle...what a stupid miracle...how is the layman supposed to verify this?...how is the non Arab non linguist supposed to determine the validity of this claim?...

And on the subject of this whole rhetorical device thing...how is having a frequency of something miraculous...i have shown in another thread how one can have 18 rhetorical devices in 3 words from a simple English phrase...nothing special there...and also the definition of what is rhetorical device is subjective...some believe Machiavelli to be a satirist...applying specific rhetorical devices to a text is a subjective exercise...

In short Muhammad gives a challenge that cant be met because it is such a ridiculous challenge in the first place...
 
I bet some people found this artcle logically sound and enlightening, good for them. But for me, it was long and pointless blabber that further highlights how obsessed people can be about proving their religion to be the ultimate divine word.

Its deliberately presented that way to intimidate imo...make it seem a lot more complex than it is...

In summary...he redefines miracle to fit his perspective...
He states the Quran is inimitable...uses the argument of new literary form and rhetorical devices...
Then he gives a long list of rhetorical devices to make it look clever...
Its absolute rubbish but its the Muslims strongest argument for legitimacy of their creed...
 
People need to see the videos of Nouman Ali Khan, he explains, very effectively, why Quran is a literary miracle.
 
Its deliberately presented that way to intimidate imo...make it seem a lot more complex than it is...

In summary...he redefines miracle to fit his perspective...
He states the Quran is inimitable...uses the argument of new literary form and rhetorical devices...
Then he gives a long list of rhetorical devices to make it look clever...
Its absolute rubbish but its the Muslims strongest argument for legitimacy of their creed...

Complicated rhetorical mumbo jumbo is usually the best you can do while defending such matters. Religions around the world sold a dodgy story thousands of years ago, and in order to keep selling it in the 21st Century, they need to up their game. Play of words is not enough now, so the latest trend seems to be presenting the same old story with a shiny pseudo-scientific plot to it.
 
People need to see the videos of Nouman Ali Khan, he explains, very effectively, why Quran is a literary miracle.

I'll give it a watch actually...and I'll report my findings on here...
 
People need to see the videos of Nouman Ali Khan, he explains, very effectively, why Quran is a literary miracle.

This is reaching...

The fact that Muhammad never edited his work is evidence of a miracle?...

Muhammad wasn't freestyling...it's perfectly easy to rehearse and get speech correct over a 23 year period...it's disingenuous to present it as a speech...

His thing on Baqara is odd...it has 286 ayahs...yet he speaks about a middle ayah...im no mathematician but doesn't middle require an odd number of ayahs...

Also he defeats himself by stating that the ayah form was created after the Quran became a mush'af...

However even if this point is correct...this is miraculous?...

On his second point...subtletly in language shows something is well written...but the argument is about something being miraculous...

I didn't listen further on tbf...

Watsupdoc feel free to express which points of his you felt were strong...i presume you have seen his 2hr version and not the 22 minute one I just watched...
 
You think Shakespeare is better?...

The merchant of Venice is very interesting , some may even consider it prophetic but no text or oral recording can ever come close to the Quran. Did you read the new found Quranic text in Bham uni ? It kind of puts to bed one of your old arguments regarding when the Quran was written down .
 
Good read .

Lol @ someone comparing Shakespeare to the Quran .

Why so KK? I don't think any writer in English has ever achieved what Shakespeare did. He crystallised a language. Surely, by the standard set by GW, that means that The Collected Works of Shakespeare must be divinely inspired?
 
This is reaching...

The fact that Muhammad never edited his work is evidence of a miracle?...

Muhammad wasn't freestyling...it's perfectly easy to rehearse and get speech correct over a 23 year period...it's disingenuous to present it as a speech...

His thing on Baqara is odd...it has 286 ayahs...yet he speaks about a middle ayah...im no mathematician but doesn't middle require an odd number of ayahs...

Also he defeats himself by stating that the ayah form was created after the Quran became a mush'af...

However even if this point is correct...this is miraculous?...

On his second point...subtletly in language shows something is well written...but the argument is about something being miraculous...

I didn't listen further on tbf...

Watsupdoc feel free to express which points of his you felt were strong...i presume you have seen his 2hr version and not the 22 minute one I just watched...

What is odd about the Baqarah point he made? Yes, it has 286 ayah and the ayat about the middle nation is 143 ayah. What is so odd about it?

I don't know which video you watched.

Personally though, I wasn't that religious either. However, once I came across the divine speech lecture by Nouman Ali Khan, I started to get more interested and from there on in, I had no doubt that this book is from God. There is no way that an unlettered man could have come up with something like this.

Anyways, I have pointed you to the 'scholar' that I find makes compelling arguments about why this book is divine. It's up to you to check them out or not.
 
What is odd about the Baqarah point he made? Yes, it has 286 ayah and the ayat about the middle nation is 143 ayah. What is so odd about it?

I don't know which video you watched.

Personally though, I wasn't that religious either. However, once I came across the divine speech lecture by Nouman Ali Khan, I started to get more interested and from there on in, I had no doubt that this book is from God. There is no way that an unlettered man could have come up with something like this.

Anyways, I have pointed you to the 'scholar' that I find makes compelling arguments about why this book is divine. It's up to you to check them out or not.


This is the video I watched...


The middle verse would only work if there is an odd number...143 isnt the middle of 286...144 would be the middle of 287...although I could be wrong...but even then I don't see how this is evidence of something being miraculous...

You keep mentioning unlettered...but as stated many people were illiterate...I lived in Georgia a few years ago...an area there Svaneti still has no written language...but they have a language and history that has all been carried down through oral tradition over thousands of years...there are currently 696 unwritten languages in the world...the idea that a wealthy businessman is able to possess eloquent speech and be a poet isn't really that unusual...

I am asking you what specific points you felt were strong pertaining to the idea of a linguistic miracle...or even if you want point out a specific video...
 
The merchant of Venice is very interesting , some may even consider it prophetic but no text or oral recording can ever come close to the Quran. Did you read the new found Quranic text in Bham uni ? It kind of puts to bed one of your old arguments regarding when the Quran was written down .

I disagree...can you go about proving i'm wrong...or is this just your subjective opinion?...

I did indeed read about about the oldest fragments...quite interesting...but i dont see what of mine it has debunked?...
 
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Einstein
 
I disagree...can you go about proving i'm wrong...or is this just your subjective opinion?...

I did indeed read about about the oldest fragments...quite interesting...but i dont see what of mine it has debunked?...


It's my opinion & the opinion of many others .

I think you once claimed the Quran wasn't written down until much later but the carbon dating on this find suggests otherwise . I apologise if I'm mistaken .
 
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Einstein

Please don't attribute every other saying to me after the internet is discovered - Albert Einstein
 
It's my opinion & the opinion of many others .

I think you once claimed the Quran wasn't written down until much later but the carbon dating on this find suggests otherwise . I apologise if I'm mistaken .

The findings don't dispute that...so yes you are mistaken...and the view I expressed was a conventional Islamic opinion...

The Quran is oral...and thats how Muhammad delivered it...scribes wrote things down on parchment etc...It was Uthman who standardised a Mush'af a written form...if you are a Sunni or a Shia you wouldn't be disputing this point...

But it's interesting you dispute this point...

So explain away your opinion...what is it about the Quran that makes it better?...
 
Why so KK? I don't think any writer in English has ever achieved what Shakespeare did. He crystallised a language. Surely, by the standard set by GW, that means that The Collected Works of Shakespeare must be divinely inspired?

I wouldn't put down Shakespeare , he indeed was a great writer . However the Quranic Arabic is way above any literature ever produced . Eg individual letters in the Quran have meanings & the Arabic sentence 'there is no god but god ' consists of only 3 letters. There are many more examples.
 
How do people verify the best literary work unless they know the language?
 
It is illegal to beat servants

Countries which still have such practices are backwards. In Western world maids are paid very highly and treated very well. How you can compare them with slaves is beyond me

And those who treat servants as slaves and misbehave are wrong

Is it legal for servants to kill or rob their owners?
 
This is the video I watched...


The middle verse would only work if there is an odd number...143 isnt the middle of 286...144 would be the middle of 287...although I could be wrong...but even then I don't see how this is evidence of something being miraculous...

You keep mentioning unlettered...but as stated many people were illiterate...I lived in Georgia a few years ago...an area there Svaneti still has no written language...but they have a language and history that has all been carried down through oral tradition over thousands of years...there are currently 696 unwritten languages in the world...the idea that a wealthy businessman is able to possess eloquent speech and be a poet isn't really that unusual...

I am asking you what specific points you felt were strong pertaining to the idea of a linguistic miracle...or even if you want point out a specific video...

Well watch the divine speech video by Nouman Ali Khan.
 
How do people verify the best literary work unless they know the language?

Basically cos thats what they have been told...the Quran is amazing therefore it must be amazing...KKWC doesn't read Arabic and neither do the rest attesting to its brilliance...i'd give them a let off if they were describing a book they enjoyed when it was translated in English...but its laughable for them to attest to the superior use of Arabic when they dont understand a word of it...and certainly have no ability to appreciate the things they claim the Quran is able to do...its just fake really...

I like Dostoyevsky...but i dont read Russian...what these guys are doing is akin to me describing the amazing things that Dostoyevsky does with Russian language...its beyond pretentious...its simply disingenuous...
 
Basically cos thats what they have been told...the Quran is amazing therefore it must be amazing...KKWC doesn't read Arabic and neither do the rest attesting to its brilliance...i'd give them a let off if they were describing a book they enjoyed when it was translated in English...but its laughable for them to attest to the superior use of Arabic when they dont understand a word of it...and certainly have no ability to appreciate the things they claim the Quran is able to do...its just fake really...

I like Dostoyevsky...but i dont read Russian...what these guys are doing is akin to me describing the amazing things that Dostoyevsky does with Russian language...its beyond pretentious...its simply disingenuous...

You're urge to win a debate is only letting yourself down . You know every Muslim understands not just one word but many words in the Quran . I would go as far to say the majority of Muslims know what they are saying when performing the prayers .
 
You're urge to win a debate is only letting yourself down . You know every Muslim understands not just one word but many words in the Quran . I would go as far to say the majority of Muslims know what they are saying when performing the prayers .

Lol actually you're making yourself look worse...

I have actually studied Russian...have lived in a Russian speaking country and know a lot more than a few words...does this mean I can even begin to appreciate a difficult text...I have read Dostoyevsky in English and can enjoy Crime and Punishment as a novel for what it conveys...what I have no ability to speak on is his use of Russian language...

Now non Arab speakers I knew during my time as a Muslim memorised translations...this isn't the same as appreciating the use of Arabic language...far from it...unless you are an Arabic speaker versed in classical Arabic you are in no position to express your appreciation for the use of Arabic...the only reason you are able to speak about the use of Arabic is simply cos that is what you have been told or these are the arguments you have read...

Be honest...do you speak Arabic...can you read classical Arabic and understand without the need of translation?...are you genuinely able to appreciate the little nuances of classical Arabic?...or are you simply regurgitating arguments you have heard...
 
Lol actually you're making yourself look worse...

I have actually studied Russian...have lived in a Russian speaking country and know a lot more than a few words...does this mean I can even begin to appreciate a difficult text...I have read Dostoyevsky in English and can enjoy Crime and Punishment as a novel for what it conveys...what I have no ability to speak on is his use of Russian language...

Now non Arab speakers I knew during my time as a Muslim memorised translations...this isn't the same as appreciating the use of Arabic language...far from it...unless you are an Arabic speaker versed in classical Arabic you are in no position to express your appreciation for the use of Arabic...the only reason you are able to speak about the use of Arabic is simply cos that is what you have been told or these are the arguments you have read...

Be honest...do you speak Arabic...can you read classical Arabic and understand without the need of translation?...are you genuinely able to appreciate the little nuances of classical Arabic?...or are you simply regurgitating arguments you have heard...

Lol you claimed Muslims don't understand A word of it when you know this isn't true .

Of course most Muslims including myself don't speak or read Classical Arabic . It doesn't mean you can't appreciate listening to or speaking the language. Maybe when you was a Muslim listening to Quranic recitation has no impact on you but many Muslims feel at peace when listening . It's not just an a method of living your life but a medicine for the soul.
 
Lol you claimed Muslims don't understand A word of it when you know this isn't true .

Of course most Muslims including myself don't speak or read Classical Arabic . It doesn't mean you can't appreciate listening to or speaking the language. Maybe when you was a Muslim listening to Quranic recitation has no impact on you but many Muslims feel at peace when listening . It's not just an a method of living your life but a medicine for the soul.

Therefore your comments on the superior use of Arabic have no basis...

And you're changing the goalposts again...I enjoy Bossa Nova...it soothes me...saying you enjoy listening to Arabic means nothing when attesting to whether the Quran is godly or not...

Saying the Quran is well written...even outstanding does not make it Godly...

A simple question for you...is the Quran a linguistic miracle?...if so...why?...you enjoying something doesn't make it a miracle...this is about as credible as someone claiming Tendulkar is God ;) ...
 
Therefore your comments on the superior use of Arabic have no basis...

And you're changing the goalposts again...I enjoy Bossa Nova...it soothes me...saying you enjoy listening to Arabic means nothing when attesting to whether the Quran is godly or not...

Saying the Quran is well written...even outstanding does not make it Godly...

A simple question for you...is the Quran a linguistic miracle?...if so...why?...you enjoying something doesn't make it a miracle...this is about as credible as someone claiming Tendulkar is God ;) ...

lol I never suggested enjoying the Quran proved it was a miracle .

I'm glad you've now accepted Muslims do understand words in the Quran .

All other books or written works can be improved upon with regards to the language used except the Quran .

Take it as you will 😊
 
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lol I never suggested enjoying the Quran proved it was a miracle .

I'm glad you've now accepted Muslims do understand words in the Quran .

All other books or written works can be improved upon with regards to the language used except the Quran .

Take it as you will ��

So what makes it a literary miracle then?...

Simply stating it is doesn't make for an argument...and the part in bold is just a nonsensical statement...what is improvement?...go on KKWC...try the linguistic argument that you have no knowledge of...whats it gonna be...the Tzortzis argument of unlimited rhetorical devices?...the eloquence argument?... which is not only subjective but also not something you as a non-Arab can even begin to debate...

Try and move past statements and actually provide an argument...why can't the Quran be improved upon?...
 
So what makes it a literary miracle then?...

Simply stating it is doesn't make for an argument...and the part in bold is just a nonsensical statement...what is improvement?...go on KKWC...try the linguistic argument that you have no knowledge of...whats it gonna be...the Tzortzis argument of unlimited rhetorical devices?...the eloquence argument?... which is not only subjective but also not something you as a non-Arab can even begin to debate...

Try and move past statements and actually provide an argument...why can't the Quran be improved upon?...


No verse can be articulated better.
 
All other books or written works can be improved upon with regards to the language used except the Quran .

I'm actually interested in the bolded part than in Quran. Dude, have you read all the books before coming to this conclusion?
 
1430+ years and still counting .....

I think its more easy for others becoz the Miracle have the "explanation" now.
so its still an open challenge if someone can make a book or even one verse like that.

and God knows Best ....
:)

open challenge to anyone to write another play like Shakespeare or draw a Pcaso
 
I'm actually interested in the bolded part than in Quran. Dude, have you read all the books before coming to this conclusion?

There is no need as it's obvious any book whether it's from Shakespeare or anyone else can be improved upon, things can be articulated better by someone else. It doesn't have to be the entire book but even one sentence, the Quran doesn't have this issue.
 
lol I never suggested enjoying the Quran proved it was a miracle .

I'm glad you've now accepted Muslims do understand words in the Quran .

All other books or written works can be improved upon with regards to the language used except the Quran .

Take it as you will ��

So have you read every book before making this statement? If not, how can you claim this? How can Shakespeare be improved by another human?

For the other claim, how cannot it be improved? how do you measure improvement and who is the judge? This is like someone talking about his own children and just proclaiming they are the best because it is their own
 
There is no need as it's obvious any book whether it's from Shakespeare or anyone else can be improved upon, things can be articulated better by someone else. It doesn't have to be the entire book but even one sentence, the Quran doesn't have this issue.

Yes, you say Quran doesn't have this issue. I say my son is the best in the world and I will close my ears whenever anyone else points out his fault. It is obvious because you are biased.
 
When I was a kid, there were lots of things which were forced on me as "perfect". To the extent that I grew up believing that they were indeed that and laughed at others who did not believe. Then I became a cynic and realized it is more my upbringing and my childhood brain washing which makes me believe this. Most such things have of course "vague" definition of perfection. Why are Shakespeare sonnets, not perfection for his fans? I can find 100 literally devices in them, genius uses of the words. However I know they are just plays. But if I wanted I could twist his words into miracles and perfection just because his plays are great.
 
Yes, you say Quran doesn't have this issue. I say my son is the best in the world and I will close my ears whenever anyone else points out his fault. It is obvious because you are biased.

lol Of course I'm biased, I'm a Muslim.
 
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lol Of course I'm biased, I'm a Muslim.

Hence why the challenge is a false one...

You say that the Quran can't be improved upon...what does that even mean?...how are you going to assess if someone has written something better?...surely you have a criteria in place?...

Actually though there isnt really...Muhammad wasnt dumb and knew not to set a real challenge which could actually be met...its deliberately vague...

I say Shakespeare is a better writer than Muhammad...PROVE me wrong...your argument is that this isn't simply a subjective judgement but that one piece of literature is actually Godly...can you please tell me why this piece of work is godly...and try and give a bit of detail...

What needs to be done to prove that something is better than a Quranic verse?...
 
Hence why the challenge is a false one...

You say that the Quran can't be improved upon...what does that even mean?...how are you going to assess if someone has written something better?...surely you have a criteria in place?...

Actually though there isnt really...Muhammad wasnt dumb and knew not to set a real challenge which could actually be met...its deliberately vague...

I say Shakespeare is a better writer than Muhammad...PROVE me wrong...your argument is that this isn't simply a subjective judgement but that one piece of literature is actually Godly...can you please tell me why this piece of work is godly...and try and give a bit of detail...

What needs to be done to prove that something is better than a Quranic verse?...

If you are really interested in a detail you need to read works by classical and modern scholars. Try Al-Baqillani. He discusses in detail the language, criteria etc.
 
For those interested these are the verses in the Quran which mention the challenge:

Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." [Qur'an 17:88]

And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful. [Qur'an 2:23]

And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation) which was before it [i.e. the Taurat (Torah), and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.], and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. laws and orders, etc, decreed for mankind) - wherein there is no doubt from the the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns,and all that exists).

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a surah (chapter) like unto it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allah, if you are truthful!" [Qur'an 10:37-38]

Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad(P)) forged it (the Qur'an)." Say: "Bring you then ten forged surah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!" [Qur'an 11:13]

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it (this Qur'an)?" Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful. [Qur'an 52:33-34]

Now what is the challenge?...

What does produce something like this even mean?...

Its deliberately vague...and this is why you get so many different interpretations on what this challenge entails...

Hence the absurdity of the Hamza Tzortzis challenge...which focuses on rhetorical devices which have no mention anywhere in any Islamic text...

What is inimitability?...

I have a technical testable question for you...can words be substituted in the Quran whilst still maintaining its semantic sense?...

If the answer is yes...then one can argue that it is an imitation...of course this would make it different but it displays the same characteristics etc...

If I substitute a pronoun or even remove a pronoun and maintain the essence of the work then this would be an imitation and plenty of people have risen to that challenge...

You then get stupid replies such as 'Allah uses the best word'...'it isn't as eloquent'...which are subjective arguments and also false in terms of determining whether something is inimitable or not...one can be a poor imitator but still be an imitator...its just a ridiculous argument to make overall...

But this is simply focusing on arguments concocted which aren't backed up by the Quranic verses...

Fact is the challenge has been put out there...but with no rules and no way of determining whether the conditions have been met...

This is why the responses from the Muslims on here have essentially been nothing but statements without explanations...
 
If you are really interested in a detail you need to read works by classical and modern scholars. Try Al-Baqillani. He discusses in detail the language, criteria etc.

Quote me something...im sure since you have read Baqillani in depth and not just cherry picked him from a bibliography you can explain his criteria to me...

As for modern scholars this thread is dealing with one of them...
 
Do you speak and read classical arabic or have some kind of phd in the language [MENTION=133972]shaykh[/MENTION]

Speaking of shakespear apparently he was illieterate to and had scribes :)) old rumour :yk2
 
Do you speak and read classical arabic or have some kind of phd in the language [MENTION=133972]shaykh[/MENTION]

Speaking of shakespear apparently he was illieterate to and had scribes :)) old rumour :yk2


Nothing like that at all :) ...just someone who explored the notion of a linguistic miracle in detail...

I don't need to know Arabic to know that an ambiguous challenge that sets no clear criteria is a false challenge...
 
Here is one such imitation...it claims to be legitimate...now on what basis does it fail?...

1. By the Mid-day
2. Verily, Muslims are in (a state of) loss
3. Except those who disbelieve and who seek enjoyment through their (own) lives and who seek enjoyment through wine!


والظهر
ان المسلمين لفي خسر
الا الذين كفروا واستمتعوا بحياتهم واستمتعوا بالخمر


Would anyone like to comment on whether this is a decent imitation...
 

I hope this time you actually respond to my points...

The initial point raises something interesting...he judges the book based on proper Arabic as opposed to ancient Arabic...this makes the notion of a linguistic challenge even more ridiculous...to observe and understand this linguistic miracle one needs to understand ancient Arabic not the Arabic that people know today...these makes it an even more closed religion...

His point about criticisms is also interesting...he rightly mentions that the Quran was accused of being the work of a soothsayer or simply poetry...

One has to ask why Allah had a linguistic miracle when Nouman himself acknowledges that Ancient Arabic understanding declined so quickly...

His point about a new literary form is weak...Haiku's are unique...Hip Hop is unique...these are innovative structures with different orders...the idea that the Quran has no chronological order and lacks structure doesnt make it strong...having a unique form isn't godly which he admits...

His point about the ayats about witnessing isn't great...he just says Muhammad mentions two versions of it at different times...placement and sequence of words he calls 'perfection'...its a device...

He continues to speak about stunning speech as being 'perfect'...

His point about tenses is ridiculous...switching tenses is impressive?...this idea that this doesn't exist anywhere else is nonsense tbf...

He repeats his middle nation point which is wrong...143 is not the middle Ayah...you can't have a middle ayat when there is an even number...286/2 is 143...287 would make more sense...144 would be the middle ayat in that instance...

He then speaks about partial and complete...thats subtlety of language which is fair...but he calls it a miracle...

Then he mentions idioms...he speaks about a powerful example which again one can argue subjectively is a nice phrase...miraculous no...

Herein lies the issue of the whole talk...its an hour of him speaking about how impressive the Quran is...but there is absolutely nothing to suggest anything is miraculous...anyone studying anyone in literature may attend a similar talk about how a literary figure does fantastic things with language...

He finishes off by labeling the Quran marvelous and beautiful...one can make that argument...and that is it...
 
Man I'm surprised Hamza would take the time to log out of AshleyMaddison and actually write something that long
 
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