I read your post only because Cpt quoted it, and saw the lie straight away.
1. And how is that different from India where there is ban on certain freedoms based on Hindu beliefs? How is that different from Blasphemy law? (you are getting punished for going against a certain religion)I read your post only because Cpt quoted it, and saw the lie straight away.
Aain-e-Pakistan discriminates among its citizens not only at one place, but several that I know of apart from the one for head of state.
1. Blasphemy law.
2. laws on Ahmadiya.
3. Islam as state religion.
yes, apart from that Pakistan is secular.
1. Are there any bans on religious freedoms? Which religious freedom of muslims is banned?
Yes, and that religion is Islam. Exempt from affirmative action for dalits despite taking state funds. Special law for waqf property. Exception for polygamy, muslim personal law board, stopped hindu festivities so that muslims can take processions.
1. Who said about religious freedom. Its freedom in general that is banned based on Hindu beliefs.
1. So you concede no religious freedom of muslims is restricted.
I don't live in India so I cant speak to religious freedom but from what I can tell there is general freedom of non Hindus that is restricted and that is a bigger indictment than restriction of religious freedom. I mean I would hate to live in a country where I can be held liable for killing a cow. This restriction covers not just Muslims.1. So you concede no religious freedom of muslims is restricted.
Folks. Brother @Stewie accepts that no religious freedom of muslims is restricted.
Now brother @Stewie says he doesn't live in india so he cannot say anything for sure.
Of course, I am being realistic, unlike the idiots who don't live in Pakistan but make it sound like they live here and know everything, and especially sympathize with Ahmedis by posting links to other websites about their plight. I swear I saw some deluded dude post about that on here somewhere.Now brother @Stewie says he doesn't live in india so he cannot say anything for sure.
The gift that keeps on giving.
Aren't ahmadiyas barred by law from calling themselves muslims or calling their mosques as mosques?Of course, I am being realistic, unlike the idiots who don't live in Pakistan but make it sound like they live here and know everything, and especially sympathize with Ahmedis by posting links to other websites about their plight. I swear I saw some deluded dude post about that on here somewhere.
In India a Hindu can become Muslim legally. Is it legal in Pakistan for a Muslim to become Hindu? More generally does Sharia allow preaching of other religions to Muslims?
Fair point: yes you are correct those activities are not allowed in Pakistan. Under sharia law, I am not entirely sure if preaching is allowed or not. I am inclined to say probably not.
I am not discussing their plight, I am showing how Pakistani law discriminates against them
I don’t think you are in any position to judge what sort of discrimination the Ahmedis face. I actually have no sense of unease about it at all. It’s fairly clear what a Muslims stands for and believes and according to the government, they don’t fulfill that qualification. So they are classified as non Muslims. If you want to call it discriminatory, well who cares. We can claim the same about the Hindu caste culture which judges people on the family of birth than belief. What’s worse?
Indian laws discriminate based on caste? Show me the proof or it is yet another lie from your never ending stable.
Haha, way to divert the topic but ok fine I’ll play along.
I am not a fan of secularism. Let there be no mistake about it. I am only exposing your lies and schooling you because you said except head of state rule, Pakistani laws are secular.
Hilarious!I am not a fan of secularism. Let there be no mistake about it. I am only exposing your lies and schooling you because you said except head of state rule, Pakistani laws are secular.
I have given multiple examples (FACTS) which show Aain-e-Pakistan treats non muslims as second class citizens.
Now you have given ZERO proof where COI (Constitution of India) discriminates based on religion.
In fact you already conceded that Indian law does not restrict ANY religious freedom of muslims.
A-e-P treats non muslim pakistanis as second class, but but but apart from that it is truly secular. This is brother @Stewie logic, folks.
Can you please send me text of aine Pakistan that says they are “second class” citizens please?I am not a fan of secularism. Let there be no mistake about it. I am only exposing your lies and schooling you because you said except head of state rule, Pakistani laws are secular.
I have given multiple examples (FACTS) which show Aain-e-Pakistan treats non muslims as second class citizens.
Now you have given ZERO proof where COI (Constitution of India) discriminates based on religion.
In fact you already conceded that Indian law does not restrict ANY religious freedom of muslims.
A-e-P treats non muslim pakistanis as second class, but but but apart from that it is truly secular. This is brother @Stewie logic, folks.
Good to see you falling back to your old defense mechanism, which is to avoid discussion with me.
LOL. The gift that keeps giving!
India's official head of state is president. A Muslim became president. A Sikh became PM.
So what? Has a muslim become a prime minister? Unless a muslim becomes a prime minister, india is not secular.
2 Muslims became President - APJ Abdul Kalam and Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed.
My favourite was Vice President Hamid Ansari, cousin of Mukhtar Ansari.
Why exactly?
we don’t get anywhere with these discussions if we are not honest. You were correct with your analysis and I conceded to it with all honesty.
I have already accepted that piece. Is your sole argument that President or PM cannot be NON MUSLIMS, hence they are second class citizens?
You are comparing naturalized citizens with natural born citizens. Very poor comparison.
I don't think you should waste so much time. All his points can be ripped apart in a few lines. @Stewie should I do the honours again?
I think you missed the whole point or as usual tried to evade the main point.
Are you serious or trolling now?
I have no idea what to say either if you cannot simply grasp a concept because it is outside of your wagon wheel. You are not even showing any intent to try to understand it.
If the law in a country tells a natural born citizen that you cannot become this or that because you do not follow certain religion, then it is religious apartheid.I have no idea what to say either if you cannot simply grasp a concept because it is outside of your wagon wheel. You are not even showing any intent to try to understand it.
There are laws in each country about how they operate, some may base it on religious philosophy, some may do it on the basis of place of birth and some may not have any at all on paper, as in the case of India, but their policies speak louder than any words on paper on the basis of actual results.
Once you figure out what percentage of Hindu PMs have been non Brahmin Hindus and compare that to the percentage of Brahmin Hindus in the total Indian population, please let us know.
On second thought we all know you will run away from that as well because you are too busy redefining the word apartheid.
it is discrimination but not apartheid
We don't need you, an Indian to tell us to be proud of our laws. LOL.
Can we call it legalized discrimination then?
you can call it whatever you want, who cares? just like Americans don't care if I cry about not being able to run for president or if Christians, Muslims, achyouts and all the backward class and dalits having no chance to become PM of India, you will not care. THats just the reality of it.
I bash caste system unabatedly. I don't think it ever served any good purpose and definitely not in this day and age. It must be binned ASAP.
Yes, as it limits the full participation of minorities in political life.
In all honesty, it is not my call anymore. I don't live in Pakistan but I do identify as a Pakistani by race. I don't vote in Pakistani elections. How that country is and should be run is upto the people who live there and make their own choices. I don't think I do enough to fairly have any say in that matter. My personal view would be that eventually, I would like Pakistan to get out of the "labelling" business. A state should have no business in declaring people muslims or non-muslims. it should also allow for non Muslims to become PM and be given equal rights to run for other offices within the state.
So now Pakistan is as discriminatory as USA? Because USA wants a natural born citizen as president and Pakistan wants a muslim as a president?
Salman Taseer was killed, not because he wanted to end the blasphemy rule, but because he didn't want the law to be abused. The killer had a sea of supporters to attend his janaza, and is a martyr for Islam.
And Pakistan is not a great example to be..I understand the constitution normalises discrimination there but why should Indian constitution do the same?
This discussion is very revealing, because a moderate muslim living in USA is defending the religious discrimination against non muslims in Pakistan, while also wanting more and more rights for muslims in India, after conceding that he cannot find one example where indian muslims religious freedom is restricted by the law.
Are you saying Islam is discriminatory?
All you need to do is look for videos of Mumtaz Qadri on youtube and look at the comments section of each video.
It is equally as discriminatory as other religions.
CAA did not apply to indian citizens, so the discrimination between citizens doesn't even arise.
His supporters are pakistani equivalent of people like you that support vigilantes
I have always said that we sanghis are same as normal pakistanis.
I don't know if you are a Muslim. But if you are, kudos to you. I am reading this for the first time from a Pakistani.
I don't know if you are a Muslim. But if you are, kudos to you. I am reading this for the first time from a Pakistani.
Nothing to give kudos on this is just normal for religions.I don't know if you are a Muslim. But if you are, kudos to you. I am reading this for the first time from a Pakistani.
I think honest attempts such as this to reason will only elicit vows and gasps and such "outrageous" reactions from the Hindus. These are merely attempts to detract us from the main topic of discussion. There have been plenty of threads to discuss these issues of so-called discrimination within Pakistan. That is not the topic here now, is it?
It's good to draw parallels because the examples may help understand the thoughts of the other party.
Completely agree with you. All religions discriminate because they are all man made.
Good of you to admit anything man made can be subject to scrutiny and discrimination including their "secular" laws.
Everything should be subjected to scrutiny. Nothing can be improved without scrutiny and thorough testing.
cjp.org.in
It is very funny you shared this. I think this sort of stuff should be subject to more scrutiny than anything else. When you have people like this guy claiming love jihad, no wonder almost all the Hindu posters on this forum like Brother @Bhaijaan and this other cartoon guy, etc honestly believe Hindus are on their way to extinction because their women are being accosted by Muslims and converted.Muslims in the new India: How one week showcases their escalating persecution
In recent years, India has witnessed a disturbing rise in communal violence, reflecting deepening religious divides that threaten the country’s secular fabric. While communal tensions have long simmered beneath the surface, a series of violent incidents over the course of just one week, from August 28 to September 1, has brought these tensions into sharp focus. This wave of violence, marked by attacks on the Muslim communities across the length and breadth of India, has not only raised concerns about the safety and security of Muslims, but has also underscored the growing complicity of state machinery in perpetuating communal hatred.
The incidents, occurring within a span of five days, are not isolated events but rather part of a broader pattern of targeted aggression against Muslims. These attacks range from brutal lynching’s to the destruction of properties and places of worship, often incited by inflammatory rhetoric from political leaders and fuelled by a sense of impunity among the perpetrators. The alarming frequency and intensity of these incidents point to a systematic erosion of communal harmony, where violence against a particular community is increasingly normalised.
What is particularly troubling is the role of state institutions in either directly or indirectly facilitating these crimes? In some cases, law enforcement agencies have been accused of turning a blind eye to the violence, failing to protect victims, or even actively participating in the oppression of minority communities. This tacit or overt state support emboldens perpetrators, creating an environment where communal violence can thrive unchecked.
The week’s events also highlights the role of social media in spreading hate and inciting violence. Misinformation and provocative content circulate rapidly online, stoking communal tensions and leading to real-world consequences. The digital age has amplified the reach and impact of communal propaganda, making it easier for hate to spread and harder for authorities to contain the fallout.
Muslims in the new India: How one week showcases their escalating persecution | CJP
In recent years, India has witnessed a disturbing rise in communal violence, reflecting deepening religious divides that threaten the country’s secular fabric. While communal tensions have long simmered beneath the surface, a series of violent incidents over the course of just one week, from...
Yep the report seems to suggest wrong in the sense that they think it's been there for just a week
Living in denial and delusion. No wonder Pak is the state it is now because of views like this. Ind has never denied its deficiencies. The societal evils are already banned per Ind law. Just because they were written in some ancient books doesnt mean it's gospel unlike for you. No wonder Islam doesn't to move forward into the modern era.
Exactly. When in minority - want full secularism. The moment you are in majority- want Islamic law maybe sharia law and to heck with minorities rights. Atleast thanks for accepting it.
But that's the core issue with Islamic countries. Islam the religion defines them. Even if some of the things are primitive and medieval in concept. And it's not an isolated case. Every Islamic country and by that I mean a Muslim majority country has Islamic laws and constitution eith Islam as state religion and no minorities rights. Whereas all western and European countries even though are Christian majority are secular democracies. Ind even though it's Hindu majority- its still a secular country. Nobody in the west cares what religion you belong to and people's entire lives dont revolve around religionIn all honesty, it is not my call anymore. I don't live in Pakistan but I do identify as a Pakistani by race. I don't vote in Pakistani elections. How that country is and should be run is upto the people who live there and make their own choices. I don't think I do enough to fairly have any say in that matter. My personal view would be that eventually, I would like Pakistan to get out of the "labelling" business. A state should have no business in declaring people muslims or non-muslims. it should also allow for non Muslims to become PM and be given equal rights to run for other offices within the state.
Now once they remove any such nonsense from their constitution, they can simply continue with their unofficial policies. Basically take a leaf out of India's book so people like Brother @Champs_Pal who have no business commenting on their policies can pick on something else to complain about Muslims on PP.
You are saying the opposite. When you find some verse conflicting with your modern values, you just find ways to not practice it, or you tell yourself that the teaching was meant for a particular age and time ( this is a good thing to march ahead while keeping your belief intact). But, an important but, you never criticise it. It is because you don't own it. You are owned by it.
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I think you have been sold a whammy all this time by whatever they tell you guys in India. It behooves one to fact check. There are a lot of countries that are majority Muslim but don’t have Islamic laws or constitution in entirety.
