Feeling jealous of Pakistan seamers in PSL

[Titan24]

Amir
Wahab
Irfan
Junaid
Raees
Usman
Rahat
Tanvir
Shaheen Afridi
Hassan Ali
Umar Gul
Sameen Gul

And we have Undakat, Thakur and Sran as future.

Appreciate your honest opinion and cricketing knowledge.

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

Please Bro! These are facts.......the world has moved on from all these rudimentary stuff ��

Q. Is he (Bhuvi) currently a match winner in ALL 3 FORMATS?

A. Yes.

End of discussion

 

[Titan24]

Mohammad Hasnain is yet to get a game, imagine guys if he plays and turns out to be as good as hyped.

 

[Titan24]

Q. Is he (Bhuvi) currently a match winner in ALL 3 FORMATS?

A. Yes.

End of discussion

No not in all three. ODIs have been his weakest game and for tests to be judged and to be considered even best for India he needs to play every game irrespective of conditions.

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

No not in all three. ODIs have been his weakest game and for tests to be judged and to be considered even best for India he needs to play every game irrespective of conditions.

Looking at Pak bowlers in Tests it's obvious they want to Save themselves for T20

 

[IndianFan2018]

No not in all three. ODIs have been his weakest game and for tests to be judged and to be considered even best for India he needs to play every game irrespective of conditions.

Horses for courses ...Bhuvi has improved a lot, still room for improvement. Don't understand why PPers don't rate Bhuvi much !

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

By the way Mohd. Shami's career is over now. Good chance for either Basil Thampi or Nagarkoti/Mavi to be fastracked

 

[IndianFan2018]

By the way Mohd. Shami's career is over now. Good chance for either Basil Thampi or Nagarkoti/Mavi to be fastracked

BCCI will not entertain such off field behaviour which harm reputation of all concerned. Such a waste of talent

Also Shami was good when fit, was too injury prone lately.

 

[CanadianG00se]

What about the name Musa who was in U19 WC. I was very impressed with him. He is tall and can hit 140+.
Is he playing PSL?

 

[Titan24]

What about the name Musa who was in U19 WC. I was very impressed with him. He is tall and can hit 140+.
Is he playing PSL?

I heard he was training with IU squad may be as cover for Moh Hasnain, who has got fit and can be seen on IU bench.

So unfortunately he isnt part of PSL like many other talented bowlers but, only so many can play in each team. Wont be surprised if he gets a spot next year

 

[Ellipsism]

What about the name Musa who was in U19 WC. I was very impressed with him. He is tall and can hit 140+.
Is he playing PSL?

Tall for Indian standards maybe , he’s only 5’8-9.

And nope, he isn’t the playing the PSL. Franchises don’t really have any talent scouts in place.

 

[Ellipsism]

I heard he was training with IU squad may be as cover for Moh Hasnain, who has got fit and can be seen on IU bench.

So unfortunately he isnt part of PSL like many other talented bowlers but, only so many can play in each team. Wont be surprised if he gets a spot next year

I think he may have just been a net bowler in Pakistan, I don’t think he’s travelled with the team to the UAE.

Wasn’t Hasnain out for the season?

 

[IndianFan2018]

Tall for Indian standards maybe , he’s only 5’8-9.

And nope, he isn’t the playing the PSL. Franchises don’t really have any talent scouts in place.

Generalised statements are not warranted bro...

 

[Titan24]

Horses for courses ...Bhuvi has improved a lot, still room for improvement. Don't understand why PPers don't rate Bhuvi much !

He is a very skillful bowler with new ball no doubt about it. His seam position and realease is lovely, also he can ball some decent yorkers and slow balls at the death.

However as I have stated numerous times, the reason of him averaging 38 odd in ODIs is that he doesnt reverse the ball or has any weapon to take wickets between overs and 10-40 and that really makes him struggle.

He can either take the wicket with new ball and if that doesnt happen, he gets odd wicket or two at the end and that is also sometimes.

 

[Titan24]

I think he may have just been a net bowler in Pakistan, I don’t think he’s travelled with the team to the UAE.

Wasn’t Hasnain out for the season?

Yes that was the news but, there is still no word from IU about him being injured or his replacement. I thought I saw a guy on IU bench which I couldn’t recognise so may be he recovered in time, not sure though. IU should have been more upfront abt it

 

[Titan24]

I think he may have just been a net bowler in Pakistan, I don’t think he’s travelled with the team to the UAE.

Wasn’t Hasnain out for the season?

I think I might have confused him with Mohammad Hassan the keeper

 

[IndianFan2018]

He is a very skillful bowler with new ball no doubt about it. His seam position and realease is lovely, also he can ball some decent yorkers and slow balls at the death.

However as I have stated numerous times, the reason of him averaging 38 odd in ODIs is that he doesnt reverse the ball or has any weapon to take wickets between overs and 10-40 and that really makes him struggle.

He can either take the wicket with new ball and if that doesnt happen, he gets odd wicket or two at the end and that is also sometimes.

Going forward Bhuvi's role will be in first and last 10 overs (Power play 1 & 3) and definitely will improve his ODI stats in next 2 years.

 

[Ellipsism]

Generalised statements are not warranted bro...

I was joking, hence the smiley.

 

[Ellipsism]

I think I might have confused him with Mohammad Hassan the keeper

That makes more sense, as I haven’t seen Hasnain photographed anywhere.

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

Tall for Indian standards maybe , he’s only 5’8-9..

Pakistanis share the same genetic make up as North Indians. Unless one believes All of Pakistan is of Arab/Afghan origin.

India/Pak are essentially the same people.. of course India is much diverse than just North India

 

[Ellipsism]

Pakistanis share the same genetic make up as North Indians. Unless one believes All of Pakistan is of Arab/Afghan origin.

India/Pak are essentially the same people.. of course India is much diverse than just North India

I didn’t ask for a history lesson, I know where my ancestors came from. It was just a light hearted joke.

 

[IndianFan2018]

I didn’t ask for a history lesson, I know where my ancestors came from. It was just a light hearted joke.

But in bad taste ... response can lead to ugly Ind vs Pak mudslinging which will lead to posts being deleted and mods taking over

 

[Napa]

Shaheen looks class. Can be a potential ATG.

Shaheen Afridi is a gem of a talent. He will be the envy of the cricketing world, let alone India.

Am I missing something here? He did very well in a recent PSL game, but just six weeks ago in the India-Pak U19 semi-final his figures were: 10-0-62-1. The Indian batsmen completely dominated him.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

With all due respect to the legendary Pakistani pace bowling tradition...

Seriously OP, what were you thinking when you opened this thread?

Indian pace attack is superior to Pakistan's now. I just don't see the quality in Pakistani pacers these days. Barring a few of course.

Just because our brain dead (and likely corrupt) management plays no-hopers like Unadkat and Dhawal doesn't change the fact that India is developing a good pace attack.

Pakistan has to make serious changes to their domestic system to produce high quality pacers.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Am I missing something here? He did very well in a recent PSL game, but just six weeks ago in the India-Pak U19 semi-final his figures were: 10-0-62-1. The Indian batsmen completely dominated him.

U19 batsman played Shaheen better than PSL batsman

 

[Usman Chadda]

Its funny how Kumar is considered a good bowler in LOI cricket. These same people pick on Amir as being rubbish, while according to them Kumar is 'improving day by day' or 'his job is to contain'. Amir's averages are brought up, completely ignoring Kumar's average of 38 in ODIs. Yet he is somehow one of the best bowlers in the world in all three formats of the game. Not to mention Amir delivered the phainty of a lifetime to their superstars on one of the biggest stage of them all, while Kumar was busy getting walloped by Mohammad Hafeez of all people. Am I missing something here [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]?

Hilarious.

Bumrah is the only decent bowler India have.

 

[WengerOut]

With all due respect to the legendary Pakistani pace bowling tradition...

Seriously OP, what were you thinking when you opened this thread?

Indian pace attack is superior to Pakistan's now. I just don't see the quality in Pakistani pacers these days. Barring a few of course.

Just because our brain dead (and likely corrupt) management plays no-hopers like Unadkat and Dhawal doesn't change the fact that India is developing a good pace attack.

Pakistan has to make serious changes to their domestic system to produce high quality pacers.

Agree completely. Just because traditionally Pak have been better does not mean they remain that way every time. Kind of authoritative statements by some "desi non biased " fans are just for attention seeking. There is not much difference between Pak and Indian bowlers overall.

 

[Titan24]

Am I missing something here? He did very well in a recent PSL game, but just six weeks ago in the India-Pak U19 semi-final his figures were: 10-0-62-1. The Indian batsmen completely dominated him.

Yes bro you are missing something big time here.

Shaheen definitely lacks consistency atm but he is just 17 but when he is on song he can rattle and batting lineup, as he did against Ireland (Yes I know its not the standard but still some deliveries were amazing), and now against MS.

Even if you take Amir, Starc, Boult, Rabada etc they are not performing in every match but when day do they are exceptional.

While Philander and Hazlewood are more consistent but sometimes the impact created by the above mentioned lists overshadows them.

 

[Titan24]

With all due respect to the legendary Pakistani pace bowling tradition...

Seriously OP, what were you thinking when you opened this thread?

Indian pace attack is superior to Pakistan's now. I just don't see the quality in Pakistani pacers these days. Barring a few of course.

Just because our brain dead (and likely corrupt) management plays no-hopers like Unadkat and Dhawal doesn't change the fact that India is developing a good pace attack.

Pakistan has to make serious changes to their domestic system to produce high quality pacers.

Can you please place an Indian bowler against each name OP has mentioned?

That would be great and will make people understand your point better.

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

Am I missing something here? He did very well in a recent PSL game, but just six weeks ago in the India-Pak U19 semi-final his figures were: 10-0-62-1. The Indian batsmen completely dominated him.

True actually.. The Indian U19 batsman are better than the ones at PSL.

By the way Musa was more impressive than Shaheen at the U19 WC encounter with India

 

[good guy]

i know Pakistan bowling attack has always been better than India bowling attack

but the way India bowling attack perform in south Africa was outstanding especially Jasprit Bumrah
any bowling fans will appreciated that performance

 

[Sane.Cricket.Fan]

Can you please place an Indian bowler against each name OP has mentioned?

Can you please mention a Single current fast bowler from Pakistan who is decent in TEST CRICKET?

 

[Napa]

Yes bro you are missing something big time here.

Shaheen definitely lacks consistency atm but he is just 17 but when he is on song he can rattle and batting lineup, as he did against Ireland (Yes I know its not the standard but still some deliveries were amazing), and now against MS.

Even if you take Amir, Starc, Boult, Rabada etc they are not performing in every match but when day do they are exceptional.

While Philander and Hazlewood are more consistent but sometimes the impact created by the above mentioned lists overshadows them.

Fair enough, everybody has a bad day. I am not enough of an expert to judge future potential by watching video, I think others can do better. Good luck to Shaheen.

 

[Napa]

Its funny how Kumar is considered a good bowler in LOI cricket. These same people pick on Amir as being rubbish, while according to them Kumar is 'improving day by day' or 'his job is to contain'. Amir's averages are brought up, completely ignoring Kumar's average of 38 in ODIs. Yet he is somehow one of the best bowlers in the world in all three formats of the game. Not to mention Amir delivered the phainty of a lifetime to their superstars on one of the biggest stage of them all, while Kumar was busy getting walloped by Mohammad Hafeez of all people. Am I missing something here [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]?

Hilarious.

Bumrah is the only decent bowler India have.

You can check my posts on PP, I have always said Amir is a very good LOI player. Top order Indian batsmen especially seem to have problems playing him in LOIs. But he doesn't seem to have the ability bowl long penetrative spells in Tests.

Besides Bumrah, BK is very good when the ball is swinging. Also Shami cleaned up SA's tail in the second innings of the third Test and was an important part of the reason why we won. Umesh is pretty good too, but still can't get into the team.

 

[Ellipsism]

Am I missing something here? He did very well in a recent PSL game, but just six weeks ago in the India-Pak U19 semi-final his figures were: 10-0-62-1. The Indian batsmen completely dominated him.

One game is now the end all be all. I personally don’t believe he’s ready for the international level, but we’re talking about a tournament in which he outbowled every Indian pacer, and was one of the best overall.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Fair enough, everybody has a bad day. I am not enough of an expert to judge future potential by watching video, I think others can do better. Good luck to Shaheen.

Desi style to hype players too early, better to wait till young cricketer achieve something substantial !

Sometimes too much hype too early may become reason for players downfall. Hope that will not be the case if Shaheen is really got it to make it big .. cheers !

 

[Ellipsism]

True actually.. The Indian U19 batsman are better than the ones at PSL.

By the way Musa was more impressive than Shaheen at the U19 WC encounter with India

You don’t see many people talk about Musa because he isn’t as skilled as Shaheen; and I’m still perplexed as to how in the game vs SA he bowled between 132-136 kph and topped at 140 kph, and against India he hardly bowled a delivery under 140 kph.

 

[Sidilicious]

I am not sure that there is such a big difference anymore.

Arguably, our test pace bowling is better than Pakistan, whereas Pakistan does have the better Limited overs pace attack, but not by much.

In the U19 WC, the Indian pace attack was better than the Pakistani attack put together, so I believe that we dont have a lot too be envious about. We also have a couple of pacers in their early 20s who should be given a chance soon.

 

[Ellipsism]

I am not sure that there is such a big difference anymore.

Arguably, our test pace bowling is better than Pakistan, whereas Pakistan does have the better Limited overs pace attack, but not by much.

In the U19 WC, the Indian pace attack was better than the Pakistani attack put together, so I believe that we dont have a lot too be envious about. We also have a couple of pacers in their early 20s who should be given a chance soon.

Shaheen>Nagarkotti

Musa<Mavi- India really need to invest in this guy, quality bowler.

Arshad> Porel- Apparently the latter was coming off an injury, hence why he was trundling. But from what I saw in the WC Arshad looked the better bowler

 

[Ellipsism]

Shaheen>Nagarkotti

Musa<Mavi- India really need to invest in this guy, quality bowler.

Arshad> Porel- Apparently the latter was coming off an injury, hence why he was trundling. But from what I saw in the WC Arshad looked the better bowler

Musa<Mavi- India really need to invest in this guy, quality bowler.
[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] I typed this in the original post but it doesn’t seem to be being displayed.

 

[Sidilicious]

Shaheen>Nagarkotti

Musa<Mavi- India really need to invest in this guy, quality bowler.

Arshad> Porel- Apparently the latter was coming off an injury, hence why he was trundling. But from what I saw in the WC Arshad looked the better bowler

From what I saw, the performance of the Indian U19 WC pace bowling unit was the best in the tournament. I can only comment on the performance and not potential. From the performance of our young pacers, India definitely has decent pace bowling future ahead.

Pakistan's u19 bowlers might improve and become the better bowlers, but thats not the performance said.

 

[PakLFC]

Amir

Wahab
Irfan
Junaid
Raees
Usman
Rahat
Tanvir
Shaheen Afridi
Hassan Ali
Umar Gul
Sameen Gul

And we have Undakat, Thakur and Sran as future.

The bold ones are nothing special or past their sell by date. Likes of Sameen and Shaheen have never played international Cricket. Our current crop are no way near what we had in the 1990's or 2000's era. Would say the current Indian and Pak bowling attack is the closest in comparison for a long time.

 

[Titan24]

Can you please mention a Single current fast bowler from Pakistan who is decent in TEST CRICKET?

Mohammad Abbas has got a great start to his test career and that on WI and UAE wickets and statistically an impact wise much better than Bumrah who got his debut in SA. Hassan has also started well, he did deliver a match impacting spell in WI last test match.

Junaid Khan will be back in test squad one his fitness issues are sorted. Amir will continue to improve.

Wahab and Sohail were really good in England. In 1 year time you will see a settled pace bowling unit in tests as well.

You didnt answer my question? I dont know a single international quality seamer other than Bhuvi, Bumrah and Shami (If he remains part of cricket after his scandal) and Yadav would be stretching a bit but ok.

You backup is Unadkat, Thakur etc. That doesnt seam like a lot of bowling depth. Yes 3, 4 seamers of India I mentioned above have been doing well but there is no bench strength or backup.

If I am wrong you can always fill the names in front of their Pakistani counterparts listed by OP.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Mohammad Abbas has got a great start to his test career and that on WI and UAE wickets and statistically an impact wise much better than Bumrah who got his debut in SA. Hassan has also started well, he did deliver a match impacting spell in WI last test match.

Junaid Khan will be back in test squad one his fitness issues are sorted. Amir will continue to improve.

Wahab and Sohail were really good in England. In 1 year time you will see a settled pace bowling unit in tests as well.

You didnt answer my question? I dont know a single international quality seamer other than Bhuvi, Bumrah and Shami (If he remains part of cricket after his scandal) and Yadav would be stretching a bit but ok.

You backup is Unadkat, Thakur etc. That doesnt seam like a lot of bowling depth. Yes 3, 4 seamers of India I mentioned above have been doing well but there is no bench strength or backup.

If I am wrong you can always fill the names in front of their Pakistani counterparts listed by OP.

Amir continue to improve in tests not sure about that to be honest

 

[WengerOut]

Mohammad Abbas has got a great start to his test career and that on WI and UAE wickets and statistically an impact wise much better than Bumrah who got his debut in SA. Hassan has also started well, he did deliver a match impacting spell in WI last test match.

Junaid Khan will be back in test squad one his fitness issues are sorted. Amir will continue to improve.

Wahab and Sohail were really good in England. In 1 year time you will see a settled pace bowling unit in tests as well.

You didnt answer my question? I dont know a single international quality seamer other than Bhuvi, Bumrah and Shami (If he remains part of cricket after his scandal) and Yadav would be stretching a bit but ok.

You backup is Unadkat, Thakur etc. That doesnt seam like a lot of bowling depth. Yes 3, 4 seamers of India I mentioned above have been doing well but there is no bench strength or backup.

If I am wrong you can always fill the names in front of their Pakistani counterparts listed by OP.

So basically 'hope' is your best bowler.

 

[ethan hunt]

Was really ooking forward to seeing hasnain .
Pakistan has around half a dozen or more under 19 bowlers who bowl 140 kph .
Thats a large talent pool to work with

 

[Titan24]

So basically 'hope' is your best bowler.

Yes atleast that hope helped us draw a test series in England.

 

[WengerOut]

Yes atleast that hope helped us draw a test series in England.

No. It was Yasir Shah and the slow pitches.

 

[BreadPakoda]

No. It was Yasir Shah and the slow pitches.

True. Aamir, Wahab, Rahat all averaged around 40 to 55ish.

Bottom line is that neither India nor Pakistan have world beating fast bowlers at the moment. Cricket is a sport of a very few nations and 4 of them - Aus, NZ, England, SA, are the top ones when it comes to fast bowlers.

 

[babajee]

Indian pace attack is superior to Pakistan's now. I just don't see the quality in Pakistani pacers these days. Barring a few of course.

Uhh what? You guys only have Bumrah and BK.

 

[Abhilash93]

Unadkat & Co are being played because the younger lot do not have enough First Class experience to be pushed into international cricket at this time. But I think they will be there in 2-3 years time.

And by the younger lot, I mean the following under-25 bowlers who can atleast reach 140k : Khaleel Ahmed, Basil Thampi, KM Asif, Nagarkoti, Mavi, Navdeep Saini, Avesh Khan, Khejroliya, Ankit Rajpoot, Nathu Singh, Lalit Yadav.

I think only Rajpoot and Saini have played more than 2 seasons of FC cricket.

 

[Titan24]

True. Aamir, Wahab, Rahat all averaged around 40 to 55ish.

Bottom line is that neither India nor Pakistan have world beating fast bowlers at the moment. Cricket is a sport of a very few nations and 4 of them - Aus, NZ, England, SA, are the top ones when it comes to fast bowlers.

In ODIs two out of top 3 wicket takers in CT 17 were from Pakistan.

 

[Titan24]

Unadkat & Co are being played because the younger lot do not have enough First Class experience to be pushed into international cricket at this time. But I think they will be there in 2-3 years time.

And by the younger lot, I mean the following under-25 bowlers who can atleast reach 140k : Khaleel Ahmed, Basil Thampi, KM Asif, Nagarkoti, Mavi, Navdeep Saini, Avesh Khan, Khejroliya, Ankit Rajpoot, Nathu Singh, Lalit Yadav.

I think only Rajpoot and Saini have played more than 2 seasons of FC cricket.

These are just names without any performances to backup. Many such players come and go.

 

[WengerOut]

In ODIs two out of top 3 wicket takers in CT 17 were from Pakistan.

Nobody is denying that in ODIs.In Tests , India have better fast bowlers. In T20 , in my view India edges it.

 

[WengerOut]

These are just names without any performances to backup. Many such players come and go.

Some guy said any gully in Lahore has better bowlers. I dint see any stats there. Atleast these guys are from first class cricket

 

[Titan24]

No. It was Yasir Shah and the slow pitches.

Yasir didnt take a single wicket in the first innings of Oval test match, it was Sohail with 5fer and rest of the pacers chipping in.

Yes England made such pitches so Pak could win. If you are not atleast act like being unbiased.

 

[Abhilash93]

These are just names without any performances to backup. Many such players come and go.

Obviously not everybody would turn out great, but atleast some will. Some of them have performed quite well in domestic cricket and on India A tours.

And No, 'many such players' did not come up in India till even a few years ago. We used to have trundlers aplenty in first class teams.

 

[Titan24]

Nobody is denying that in ODIs.In Tests , India have better fast bowlers. In T20 , in my view India edges it.

Lol! Yes Amir with economy of under 7 is mediocre and so is everybody else in Pakistan squad. Back your talk with stats. Pak is ranked no 1 in T20s for a reason.

 

[Titan24]

Obviously not everybody would turn out great, but atleast some will. Some of them have performed quite well in domestic cricket and on India A tours.

And No, 'many such players' did not come up in India till even a few years ago. We used to have trundlers aplenty in first class teams.

Quality bowler is not equal to fastest bowler. Skillful bowler even being a less pacy one can become world class. Yes your new lot might have bit more pace than previous ones but that doesnt mean they are gonna be world class just because they are pacy. Seam bowling is a lot more than pace, it requires skills.

 

[WengerOut]

Lol! Yes Amir with economy of under 7 is mediocre and so is everybody else in Pakistan squad. Back your talk with stats. Pak is ranked no 1 in T20s for a reason.

Where did I say Aamir is mediocre in T20??? I said India edges it in fast bowling. Just look at Bhuvi and Bumrah records. And yeah !! Lol for U too.

 

[WengerOut]

Yasir didnt take a single wicket in the first innings of Oval test match, it was Sohail with 5fer and rest of the pacers chipping in.

Yes England made such pitches so Pak could win. If you are not atleast act like being unbiased.

I don't need to be biased or act unbiased. Yasir Shah and slow pitches helped you MORE in drawing the series.

 

[Ellipsism]

From what I saw, the performance of the Indian U19 WC pace bowling unit was the best in the tournament. I can only comment on the performance and not potential. From the performance of our young pacers, India definitely has decent pace bowling future ahead.

Pakistan's u19 bowlers might improve and become the better bowlers, but thats not the performance said.

If we are speaking strictly about wickets taken, the Pak bowling trio had taken more than their Indian counterparts.

 

[Titan24]

Where did I say Aamir is mediocre in T20??? I said India edges it in fast bowling. Just look at Bhuvi and Bumrah records. And yeah !! Lol for U too.

Hahaha bro chill! Apologies if you didnt like my "Lol".

I am saying that if Pak is no1 in T20s we must have been doing something right

 

[WengerOut]

Hahaha bro chill! Apologies if you didnt like my "Lol".

I am saying that if Pak is no1 in T20s we must have been doing something right

I was mocking you not being angry . In tests India is better as a team. But in T20s Pak is better . ODIs , I would say equal and that too just because of Kohli. Team fortunes can depend on many things . India ODI fast bowling is mediocre. But in other 2 formats , i think they are getting better.

 

[Titan24]

I was mocking you not being angry . In tests India is better as a team. But in T20s Pak is better . ODIs , I would say equal and that too just because of Kohli. Team fortunes can depend on many things . India ODI fast bowling is mediocre. But in other 2 formats , i think they are getting better.

Glad to year that you were not angry.

Yes definitely Indian pacers have been improving but, it would be great if they can improve their backup. May be Nagarkoti can be fast tracked if he does well in IPL.

 

[Fahdi]

The bowling culture is still there but we have tried to behave as the sort of nation we are not. In the past few years we have tried to look for bowlers the way Australia do; trust the system and believe that the top performers will be good enough. This is great when you have a good system in place but not for a country like Pakistan unless we do something about the state of FC cricket.

Look at it historically. Imran was our first great homegrown fast bowler(Discounting Fazal Mehmood since he was around before Pakistan and I can't comment on how he became who was). Imran was picked as early as 17 years of age I believe and if I recall correctly he states in his book that he didn't have a great showing in the training camp but he got selected and was told he had the perfect action. Imran was basically picked due to the influence of his cousin Majid Khan who believed he possessed great talent and although Imran didn't have a great first outing many have described how Imran swung the ball so much it was ridiculous. Imran was dropped from the national team but learned his trade playing for Oxford and then in the counties. He made the most out of his raw talent and became the beast that we all know.

After that this has been Pakistan's formula for finding bowlers: find young kids with raw talent and bring them into the squad. Have them learn the trade from the national stars and coaches and get them county contracts which helped them improve even further. Obviously there have been some exceptions here and there but overall this is how we have found our bowlers. Wasim the next fast bowling star also came through this formula. He was tall, nippy and had an uncanny ability to generate pace and bounce off the pitch which hurried the batsmen. He was spotted and quickly drafted where he learned his trade from Imran himself.

Then came Waqar who was picked after Imran saw him bowl only twice. A young kid with genuine pace and basically nothing else. Shoaib Akhtar another kid who was picked for his raw pace and talent and then transformed into one of the most menacing pacemen under the tutelage of Wasim and Waqar. Then we had Amir the 17 year old boy wonder who drew praise from all over the world, everyone believed he would be the next big thing but he lost 5 years of international cricket after which he hasn't shown the heart and fire he once possessed. The latest potw from [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] describes this very well.

This isn't exactly the best formula for producing pacers and there have been many failed experiments but with the quality of domestic cricket I feel this is still the best way to go about things. In recent years we haven't made many proper investments in this regard. After the spot fixing saga there were quite a few young guys who could have been drafted but we decided to stick with TTFs and bide our time till Amir returns and somehow magically transform our fortunes. The young Zia ul Haq was bowling at 137+ in his U19 days and had plenty of ability but we let him rot in domestic cricket and now he bowls at 129-130 gun barrel straight, Ehsan Adil showed promise early on but we decided he needs more FC cricket and now he is another trundler with no movement. There were plenty of other cases and no one is saying they will become great bowlers but the pitches at FC usually do more harm than good. The likes of Hammad Azam average close to 20 with the ball over there which gives one an indication of the quality of the turf and cricketing standards.

This is the reason I want the national squad to carry around a contingent of 3-4 up and coming fast bowlers with raw ability who can learn there trade from the top coaches and playing side matches. Maybe just maybe one of them reach his full potential and become the next big thing.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

That's how it is supposed to be.

Pakistani jealous of the Indian batting depth and Indians jealous of Pakistani bowling talent.

 

[backfootpunch]

The bowling culture is still there but we have tried to behave as the sort of nation we are not. In the past few years we have tried to look for bowlers the way Australia do; trust the system and believe that the top performers will be good enough. This is great when you have a good system in place but not for a country like Pakistan unless we do something about the state of FC cricket.

Look at it historically. Imran was our first great homegrown fast bowler(Discounting Fazal Mehmood since he was around before Pakistan and I can't comment on how he became who was). Imran was picked as early as 17 years of age I believe and if I recall correctly he states in his book that he didn't have a great showing in the training camp but he got selected and was told he had the perfect action. Imran was basically picked due to the influence of his cousin Majid Khan who believed he possessed great talent and although Imran didn't have a great first outing many have described how Imran swung the ball so much it was ridiculous. Imran was dropped from the national team but learned his trade playing for Oxford and then in the counties. He made the most out of his raw talent and became the beast that we all know.

After that this has been Pakistan's formula for finding bowlers: find young kids with raw talent and bring them into the squad. Have them learn the trade from the national stars and coaches and get them county contracts which helped them improve even further. Obviously there have been some exceptions here and there but overall this is how we have found our bowlers. Wasim the next fast bowling star also came through this formula. He was tall, nippy and had an uncanny ability to generate pace and bounce off the pitch which hurried the batsmen. He was spotted and quickly drafted where he learned his trade from Imran himself.

Then came Waqar who was picked after Imran saw him bowl only twice. A young kid with genuine pace and basically nothing else. Shoaib Akhtar another kid who was picked for his raw pace and talent and then transformed into one of the most menacing pacemen under the tutelage of Wasim and Waqar. Then we had Amir the 17 year old boy wonder who drew praise from all over the world, everyone believed he would be the next big thing but he lost 5 years of international cricket after which he hasn't shown the heart and fire he once possessed. The latest potw from [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] describes this very well.

This isn't exactly the best formula for producing pacers and there have been many failed experiments but with the quality of domestic cricket I feel this is still the best way to go about things. In recent years we haven't made many proper investments in this regard. After the spot fixing saga there were quite a few young guys who could have been drafted but we decided to stick with TTFs and bide our time till Amir returns and somehow magically transform our fortunes. The young Zia ul Haq was bowling at 137+ in his U19 days and had plenty of ability but we let him rot in domestic cricket and now he bowls at 129-130 gun barrel straight, Ehsan Adil showed promise early on but we decided he needs more FC cricket and now he is another trundler with no movement. There were plenty of other cases and no one is saying they will become great bowlers but the pitches at FC usually do more harm than good. The likes of Hammad Azam average close to 20 with the ball over there which gives one an indication of the quality of the turf and cricketing standards.

This is the reason I want the national squad to carry around a contingent of 3-4 up and coming fast bowlers with raw ability who can learn there trade from the top coaches and playing side matches. Maybe just maybe one of them reach his full potential and become the next big thing.

Excellent post - sums up the importance of raw talent to be drafted into the intl sides so they can learn and develop from the best coaches.

So surely you would agree that Shaheen needs a call up to the international side (at least for LOIs) as I feel Pakistan's ODI bowling line up is missing a tall, pacy presence.

 

[jnaveen1980]

INdian fast bowling was never in hopeless situation. Zaheer/RP singh/Sreesanth/Irfan/Balaji they all played some part in atleast one or 2 test wins. India's problem is India rarely produces bowlers who runs through the line up. On evidence i am not sure even current Pak fast bowlers can run through line up like Akram or Younis or even Akhtar at some times. India can offset this by having solid spinners. Ashwin, Jadeja they are still in top 10 rankings. Not long ago they were 1 and 2 bowler in Tests. All Asian bowlers are well below other inernational bowlers like Anderson, Rabada, Hazlewood, Starc, Phihlander, Wagner, Boult, Steyn.


Let me check the highest ranked Asian fast bowler in ICC now

Shami (15)
Kumar (20)
Riaz (24)
Ishant(25)
Lakmal (30)
Taijul Islam (33)
Pradeep (35)
Mohammad Abbas (37)
Mohammad Amir(39)

If anything i would be jealous of Australian bowling line up, SA bowling line up.

 

[Sidilicious]

If we are speaking strictly about wickets taken, the Pak bowling trio had taken more than their Indian counterparts.

Well, here are the stats

Afridi - 12 wickets, AVG - 14.58, SR - 24.4, ECON - 3.58
Musa - 7 wickets, AVG - 26.28, SR - 37.7, ECON - 4.18
Iqbal - 6 wickets, AVG - 24.33, SR - 40.0, ECON - 3.65

Nagarkoti - 9 wickets, AVG - 16.33, SR - 28.1, ECON - 3.48
Mavi - 9 wickets, AVG - 18.88, SR - 27.4, ECON - 4.12
Porel - 6 wickets, AVG - 13.16, SR - 22.1, ECON - 3.56

As you can see the Pakistani pace attack took 1 more wicket, but the Indians bowler with lower AVG, ECON and significantly lower SR.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Well, here are the stats

Afridi - 12 wickets, AVG - 14.58, SR - 24.4, ECON - 3.58
Musa - 7 wickets, AVG - 26.28, SR - 37.7, ECON - 4.18
Iqbal - 6 wickets, AVG - 24.33, SR - 40.0, ECON - 3.65

Nagarkoti - 9 wickets, AVG - 16.33, SR - 28.1, ECON - 3.48
Mavi - 9 wickets, AVG - 18.88, SR - 27.4, ECON - 4.12
Porel - 6 wickets, AVG - 13.16, SR - 22.1, ECON - 3.56

As you can see the Pakistani pace attack took 1 more wicket, but the Indians bowler with lower AVG, ECON and significantly lower SR.

Was Shaheen the best pace bowler of the tournament?

 

[Sidilicious]

Was Shaheen the best pace bowler of the tournament?

Arguably. One Canadian pacer bowler had more wickets, Afirdi was definitely one of the best pacers. Along with Nagarkoti and Coetzee, he was the 3 pacers chosen in the ICC Team.

 

[Fahdi]

Excellent post - sums up the importance of raw talent to be drafted into the intl sides so they can learn and develop from the best coaches.

So surely you would agree that Shaheen needs a call up to the international side (at least for LOIs) as I feel Pakistan's ODI bowling line up is missing a tall, pacy presence.

He needs to be along for all 3 squads. Obviously he is not ready but he'll learn more there. Maybe he can be thrown a game or two here and there for experience. But people also need to lower their expectations, there is every chance he will be a disappointment but that is no reason not to invest in youngsters. As I have mentioned take Shaheen, Arshad Iqbal and one or two other guys who have pace and other raw skills and perhaps one of them will come good maybe even 2 of them if we are lucky.

 

[Titan24]

INdian fast bowling was never in hopeless situation. Zaheer/RP singh/Sreesanth/Irfan/Balaji they all played some part in atleast one or 2 test wins. India's problem is India rarely produces bowlers who runs through the line up. On evidence i am not sure even current Pak fast bowlers can run through line up like Akram or Younis or even Akhtar at some times. India can offset this by having solid spinners. Ashwin, Jadeja they are still in top 10 rankings. Not long ago they were 1 and 2 bowler in Tests. All Asian bowlers are well below other inernational bowlers like Anderson, Rabada, Hazlewood, Starc, Phihlander, Wagner, Boult, Steyn.


Let me check the highest ranked Asian fast bowler in ICC now

Shami (15)
Kumar (20)
Riaz (24)
Ishant(25)
Lakmal (30)
Taijul Islam (33)
Pradeep (35)
Mohammad Abbas (37)
Mohammad Amir(39)

If anything i would be jealous of Australian bowling line up, SA bowling line up.

I didnt know that the thread was only about Tests?

In that our bowlers can never compete points wise as none of the pacers whol played in the last series are more than 2 years old so obviously less points.

Taijul Islam isnt a fast bowler just telling.

 

[Ellipsism]

Well, here are the stats

Afridi - 12 wickets, AVG - 14.58, SR - 24.4, ECON - 3.58
Musa - 7 wickets, AVG - 26.28, SR - 37.7, ECON - 4.18
Iqbal - 6 wickets, AVG - 24.33, SR - 40.0, ECON - 3.65

Nagarkoti - 9 wickets, AVG - 16.33, SR - 28.1, ECON - 3.48
Mavi - 9 wickets, AVG - 18.88, SR - 27.4, ECON - 4.12
Porel - 6 wickets, AVG - 13.16, SR - 22.1, ECON - 3.56

As you can see the Pakistani pace attack took 1 more wicket, but the Indians bowler with lower AVG, ECON and significantly lower SR.

We also played one less game, and you’ve got to take into account the fact that India had a group consisting of PNG and Zimbabwe...

 

[ataullah]

Wahab was a great sight bowling at 150 kph. Quickest bowler in the world?

 

[Ellipsism]

Wahab was a great sight bowling at 150 kph. Quickest bowler in the world?

No.

Stanlake, Ferguson and Rabada are the quickest.

 

[ethan hunt]

No.

Stanlake, Ferguson and Rabada are the quickest.

Wahab was much quicker than Rabada in the champions trophy .
Also hit 97 mph in the oval test .
He most certainly has higher peak speeds than Rabada .

 

[Hasan123]

India and Pakistan both have good bowlers. Don't understand this obsession with the need to always compare the 2. Most of the bowlers being compared in this thread are unproven sow by not wait till they have played international cricket regualry before comparing?

We have some good prospects who I would like to see integrated into the squad.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Irfan's still bowling 145+. Sheesh, what a waste he's been, man. I hate our system.