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Five greatest all-rounders of all time!

khozema

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5 greatest all-rounders of all time

One of the most valuable members of a cricket team is an all-rounder. Every team tries to achieve that optimal team balance by choosing an all-rounder in their side. However, as much as it is desirable to have an all-rounder in your side, a good, reliable all-rounder is a rare breed. In fact, they are so rare that only a handful of all-rounders have succeeded in having a meaningful impact on their team's fortunes.

Cricket in the last two decades has evolved to become a more flashy and fast-moving sport designed to keep a short-attention-span audience glued to their TV screens. All-rounders have become an even more sought-after commodity that teams go to great lengths to find in their domestic talent pool. Oddly, though, apart from a couple of notables, one has to dig deep down memory lane into the realm of nostalgia to come up with names deserving to be called the greatest all-rounders of all time.

Great all-rounders are not necessarily remembered because of their fantastic batting or bowling averages. But, rather, they are remembered for the disproportionate impact they have had on the fortunes of their team. Some of these all-time great all-rounders played such a major role in the success of their teams that it's inconceivable that their teams would have achieved the landmarks they did or gained historic notoriety were it not for their contributions.

So, here are the 5 greatest all-rounders of all time.

#5 Jacques Kallis

jacques kallis.jpg
It's hard to believe that Kallis retired more than four years ago. Instinctively, even today, one searches for his name in the South African team roster when their Test or ODI squad is announced. Kallis batted as a proper top-order batsman as opposed to a traditional fast bowling all-rounder who bats in the lower middle order. His Test average of 57 merits comparisons with the best batsmen of all time.

What is remarkably unique about Kallis is that despite being such a big superstar, he was disciplined like a work-horse who just delivered for his team consistently in every game that he played. He was not known for a flashy innings here or a last-ball wicket there. He just took it upon his shoulders to carry a big chunk of the team's burden, without complaining. It's no wonder that four years after his retirement, South Africa is still struggling to replace him.

#4 Richard Hadlee
richard hadlee.jpg

Hadlee is easily known as New Zealand's best cricketer of all time. He is responsible for effectively elevating New Zealand cricket from being an amateurish outfit to a competitive international cricket team. It's almost unimaginable how New Zealand would have fared without Hadlee in its line-up. He was primarily known for his fearsome bowling, at first with a longer and later with a much-shortened run-up.

His record of 431 Test wickets at an average of 22.29 doesn't even begin to accurately reflect his value to his team. In a career filled with one outstanding performance after another, two particular series' flash in our minds when we think of Richard Hadlee. The first was against India when at the age of 37, Hadlee terrorized the Indian batsmen on a placid Wankhede pitch to lead New Zealand to a historic win in the sub-continent.

The second was against Australia, in 1985-86, when he willed New Zealand to a 2-1 and 1-0 win over the powerful Aussies in back to back series' in Australia and New Zealand. Almost three decades after his retirement, Hadlee's impact on New Zealand cricket remains unsurpassed. He was truly one of the greatest all-rounders in an era filled with other great all-rounders.

#3 Sir Garfield Sobers
garfield sobers.jpg

The intriguing thing about Sobers was that he started his international career as pretty much a bowler who could bat a bit. He all of a sudden developed his batting skills to become one of the most devastating batsmen the world has ever known. His 365 against Pakistan remained a record for over 36 years! In addition, his ability as a left arm pacer, left-arm orthodox spinner, and a left arm wrist spinner made him an indispensable member of his team. He is famously known as the man who could do anything.

Sobers is also known for smashing 6 sixes in one over off Englishman Malcolm Nash's over in a county game. The only knock against Sobers is that his stint as captain of West Indies wasn't successful. Even though his tenure initially was successful, his record as captain pales in comparison to his gargantuan feats as an all-rounder. The multi-talented Sobers was a gem the likes of which the world has never seen again.

#2 Kapil Dev
kapil Dev.jpg

Kapil Dev's contribution to Indian cricket is truly immeasurable. He is best known for being the face of the new, powerful, resurgent Indian cricket. The heroics of his leadership, in guiding his heavily mismatched team to an unprecedented World Cup title in 1983, remains part of an epic rags-to-riches fairy tale - the memory of which is firmly etched in the minds of every Indian cricket fan of that generation.

In a time when his contemporaries were racking up big numbers on pace friendly tracks, Kapil Dev tirelessly toiled on the slow, spin-friendly pitches in India to take 434 wickets in his 131 Test career. No Indian pacer before that or since then has come close to matching Kapil's exploits. His incredible achievements with the bat include that memorable inning of 175, against Zimbabwe in the World Cup, when his team was down and about to be knocked out.

For his longevity, value to his team, and leadership, Kapil Dev remains India's greatest all-rounder and second on my list of the greatest all-rounders of all time.

#1 Imran Khan
Imran Khan.jpg

Imran Khan's name is synonymous with leadership and confidence. His is a story of uplifting the morale and confidence of an entire nation. Imran built his reputation as a fiery bowler that delivered dread to the batsmen- both on the placid sub-continent pitches and the lively Australian or English pitches. His unflinching confidence in his abilities and in his pursuit to will his team to a win is truly a remarkable case study of a leader's unwillingness to lose.

His leadership in guiding Pakistan to the World Cup title in 1992 from seemingly difficult situations remains his single most admired achievement that is cherished and celebrated by his countrymen to this day.

His passion for mentoring young and upcoming Pakistan cricketers and his inspirational leadership gave rise to a whole new generation of superstar cricketers from Pakistan whose allegiance and belief in Imran Khan remain steadfast to this day.

So, Imran Khan, the all-rounder-par-excellence, a man admired by fans and peers alike, a leader who made his team world beaters is unquestionably the greatest all-rounders of all time.

https://cricket.yahoo.net/news/5-greatest-rounders-time-155154721
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Garfield Sobers
Imran Khan
Keith Miller
Jacques Kallis
Ian Botham

As a genuine all-rounder, Hadlee falls a bit due to not being that good enough with the bat while Kapil Dev also comes behind the mentioned five.
 
My top 5 greatest all-rounders list would be ...
1. Imran Khan
2. Jacques Kallis
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Ian Botham
5. Kapil Dev
 
Garfield Sobers
Imran Khan
Keith Miller
Jacques Kallis
Ian Botham

As a genuine all-rounder, Hadlee falls a bit due to not being that good enough with the bat while Kapil Dev also comes behind the mentioned five.

This.
 
Garfield Sobers
Imran Khan
Keith Miller
Jacques Kallis
Ian Botham

As a genuine all-rounder, Hadlee falls a bit due to not being that good enough with the bat while Kapil Dev also comes behind the mentioned five.

Botham is great





if







he did not have to play the WI teams of that era






:shhh
 
No Botham? Sobers not as number one?

Good write up and obviously you have put effort into it but I am not sure if the order is all that well informed. Anyway, good effort.
 
5 greatest all-rounders of all time

One of the most valuable members of a cricket team is an all-rounder. Every team tries to achieve that optimal team balance by choosing an all-rounder in their side. However, as much as it is desirable to have an all-rounder in your side, a good, reliable all-rounder is a rare breed. In fact, they are so rare that only a handful of all-rounders have succeeded in having a meaningful impact on their team's fortunes.

Cricket in the last two decades has evolved to become a more flashy and fast-moving sport designed to keep a short-attention-span audience glued to their TV screens. All-rounders have become an even more sought-after commodity that teams go to great lengths to find in their domestic talent pool. Oddly, though, apart from a couple of notables, one has to dig deep down memory lane into the realm of nostalgia to come up with names deserving to be called the greatest all-rounders of all time.

Great all-rounders are not necessarily remembered because of their fantastic batting or bowling averages. But, rather, they are remembered for the disproportionate impact they have had on the fortunes of their team. Some of these all-time great all-rounders played such a major role in the success of their teams that it's inconceivable that their teams would have achieved the landmarks they did or gained historic notoriety were it not for their contributions.

So, here are the 5 greatest all-rounders of all time.

#5 Jacques Kallis

View attachment 85392
It's hard to believe that Kallis retired more than four years ago. Instinctively, even today, one searches for his name in the South African team roster when their Test or ODI squad is announced. Kallis batted as a proper top-order batsman as opposed to a traditional fast bowling all-rounder who bats in the lower middle order. His Test average of 57 merits comparisons with the best batsmen of all time.

What is remarkably unique about Kallis is that despite being such a big superstar, he was disciplined like a work-horse who just delivered for his team consistently in every game that he played. He was not known for a flashy innings here or a last-ball wicket there. He just took it upon his shoulders to carry a big chunk of the team's burden, without complaining. It's no wonder that four years after his retirement, South Africa is still struggling to replace him.

#4 Richard Hadlee
View attachment 85393

Hadlee is easily known as New Zealand's best cricketer of all time. He is responsible for effectively elevating New Zealand cricket from being an amateurish outfit to a competitive international cricket team. It's almost unimaginable how New Zealand would have fared without Hadlee in its line-up. He was primarily known for his fearsome bowling, at first with a longer and later with a much-shortened run-up.

His record of 431 Test wickets at an average of 22.29 doesn't even begin to accurately reflect his value to his team. In a career filled with one outstanding performance after another, two particular series' flash in our minds when we think of Richard Hadlee. The first was against India when at the age of 37, Hadlee terrorized the Indian batsmen on a placid Wankhede pitch to lead New Zealand to a historic win in the sub-continent.

The second was against Australia, in 1985-86, when he willed New Zealand to a 2-1 and 1-0 win over the powerful Aussies in back to back series' in Australia and New Zealand. Almost three decades after his retirement, Hadlee's impact on New Zealand cricket remains unsurpassed. He was truly one of the greatest all-rounders in an era filled with other great all-rounders.

#3 Sir Garfield Sobers
View attachment 85394

The intriguing thing about Sobers was that he started his international career as pretty much a bowler who could bat a bit. He all of a sudden developed his batting skills to become one of the most devastating batsmen the world has ever known. His 365 against Pakistan remained a record for over 36 years! In addition, his ability as a left arm pacer, left-arm orthodox spinner, and a left arm wrist spinner made him an indispensable member of his team. He is famously known as the man who could do anything.

Sobers is also known for smashing 6 sixes in one over off Englishman Malcolm Nash's over in a county game. The only knock against Sobers is that his stint as captain of West Indies wasn't successful. Even though his tenure initially was successful, his record as captain pales in comparison to his gargantuan feats as an all-rounder. The multi-talented Sobers was a gem the likes of which the world has never seen again.

#2 Kapil Dev
View attachment 85395

Kapil Dev's contribution to Indian cricket is truly immeasurable. He is best known for being the face of the new, powerful, resurgent Indian cricket. The heroics of his leadership, in guiding his heavily mismatched team to an unprecedented World Cup title in 1983, remains part of an epic rags-to-riches fairy tale - the memory of which is firmly etched in the minds of every Indian cricket fan of that generation.

In a time when his contemporaries were racking up big numbers on pace friendly tracks, Kapil Dev tirelessly toiled on the slow, spin-friendly pitches in India to take 434 wickets in his 131 Test career. No Indian pacer before that or since then has come close to matching Kapil's exploits. His incredible achievements with the bat include that memorable inning of 175, against Zimbabwe in the World Cup, when his team was down and about to be knocked out.

For his longevity, value to his team, and leadership, Kapil Dev remains India's greatest all-rounder and second on my list of the greatest all-rounders of all time.

#1 Imran Khan
View attachment 85396

Imran Khan's name is synonymous with leadership and confidence. His is a story of uplifting the morale and confidence of an entire nation. Imran built his reputation as a fiery bowler that delivered dread to the batsmen- both on the placid sub-continent pitches and the lively Australian or English pitches. His unflinching confidence in his abilities and in his pursuit to will his team to a win is truly a remarkable case study of a leader's unwillingness to lose.

His leadership in guiding Pakistan to the World Cup title in 1992 from seemingly difficult situations remains his single most admired achievement that is cherished and celebrated by his countrymen to this day.

His passion for mentoring young and upcoming Pakistan cricketers and his inspirational leadership gave rise to a whole new generation of superstar cricketers from Pakistan whose allegiance and belief in Imran Khan remain steadfast to this day.

So, Imran Khan, the all-rounder-par-excellence, a man admired by fans and peers alike, a leader who made his team world beaters is unquestionably the greatest all-rounders of all time.

In order of Merit? Kapil and Imran never above Sobers.Kapil and Hadlee ahead of Kallis?How no Botham?Very happy someone in PP has given due recognition to Kapil Dev but would not rank him in the top 3.
 
Garfield Sobers
Imran Khan
Keith Miller
Jacques Kallis
Ian Botham

As a genuine all-rounder, Hadlee falls a bit due to not being that good enough with the bat while Kapil Dev also comes behind the mentioned five.

Accurate evaluation .well done.I may put Miller closer to Sobers and maybe Botham ahead of Kallis.Botham had more flair and was more of a match-winner,arguably on par with Imran and Miller.For pure all-round performance Miller and Botham could be joint runner-ups.
 
Botham’s record against WI obviously counts against him.

Consider that he was made skipper at age 24 for ten tests on a row against the toughest opposition. His game fell apart. After resigning he immediately returned to form in the infamous Headingley match.

In 1985/6 he really should have done better. He had become distracted by a manager who wanted him to give up cricket for movie acting.

Though it was nice, in his final test against them, to see him walk out with scores level, grinning from ear to ear as he hit the winning runs - the first and only time he tasted test victory against WI.
 
Hahaha, how on earth an allrounder with a bowling average of 30 in tests even after playing his whole career in bowling friendly era can be considered one of the greatest allrounders of all time? Then add the fact that he failed to score a single double hundred even after playing close to 150 tests.

Furthermore, his tailenderish batting average in ODIs against top sides also suggests that he is not even an atg allrounder leave alone one of the greatest allrounder of all time. He was a decent bowler who could bat a bit. Nothing more than that. Lol.
 
My top 5 greatest all-rounders list would be ...
1. Imran Khan
2. Jacques Kallis
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Ian Botham
5. Kapil Dev

morally disagree but salute your recognition to the great Kapil Dev who is hardly given his due here well done for that.I think at most in top 5 but not in top 3.At his best very close though.
 
My top 5 allrounder across all formats in no particular order

1. Sobers
2. Kallis
3. Shakib
4. Imran
5. Botham
 
My top 5 allrounder across all formats in no particular order

1. Sobers
2. Kallis
3. Shakib
4. Imran
5. Botham
Shakib above imran,
So shakib is better than the greatest Pakistani cricketer ever?
What do you think about tendulkar vs shakib?
Is tendulkar good enough for comparison?
 
Sobers
Imran
Miller
Kapil
Botham


Can anyone tell me how many test 5 fers Kallis had againist a Aus India Eng Pak SL or NZ?
 
Botham’s record against WI obviously counts against him.

Consider that he was made skipper at age 24 for ten tests on a row against the toughest opposition. His game fell apart. After resigning he immediately returned to form in the infamous Headingley match.

In 1985/6 he really should have done better. He had become distracted by a manager who wanted him to give up cricket for movie acting.

Though it was nice, in his final test against them, to see him walk out with scores level, grinning from ear to ear as he hit the winning runs - the first and only time he tasted test victory against WI.

Poor excuse Rob, Dev was a 23 year old kid when he captained India to their first WC glory vs the WI. He I believe also captained a number of matches for India when he scored a few runs and took wickets in test matches vs the WI...

You need to stop making excuses for Botham, just man up and admit he was not good enough vs the best, there is nothing wrong with that, some players just don't have what it takes to hang with the best...

Dev's performance alone vs the WI alone makes him the second best player vs the WI to Imran in the all rounder category, heck Dev even has better stats than Imran in the WI.....

So please no more of this>>> Oh Oh Botham couldn't handle being the captain or Oh Oh Botham was concentrating on his cooking or acting career hence he could not handle the WI, it makes you sound real silly...
 
Botham is great





if







he did not have to play the WI teams of that era






:shhh

My ranking was more like:-

Botham is a better batsmen than Kapil quite clearly as visible by difference in average and 100s.

Kapil was on par with Botham as a bowler but not much of a difference.So, overall, I will have Botham over Kapil as a genuine all-rounder.

On WI, you are right. Botham didn't do too well vs them.
 
Accurate evaluation .well done.I may put Miller closer to Sobers and maybe Botham ahead of Kallis.Botham had more flair and was more of a match-winner,arguably on par with Imran and Miller.For pure all-round performance Miller and Botham could be joint runner-ups.

Botham isn't ahead of Kallis. Laughable really how you overhype older SA players but underrate the ones after 92.

Look at Botham performance against best team, WI?? What match-winning ability you are talking if he can't deliver against the best?

The consensus of Kallis not being a match-winner is because he didn't do well against Australia when they had McGrath and Warne and at that time, they were the best team in the world. Other than that, Kallis has done brilliantly as well.

He has won his team a test series in India and Pakistan and played pivotal role in many of SA home wins. I remember he won his team a match in England with the bowl as well.

So, I will have Sobers, Imran, Miller, Kallis, Botham in this order only.
 
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My ranking was more like:-

Botham is a better batsmen than Kapil quite clearly as visible by difference in average and 100s.

Kapil was on par with Botham as a bowler but not much of a difference.So, overall, I will have Botham over Kapil as a genuine all-rounder.

On WI, you are right. Botham didn't do too well vs them.

To the highlighted bit, imo that's all that matters, how you do vs the best, the rest is just secondary, its what separates men from boys..... Dev was the top dawg, man among boys he was...
 
1) Imran Khan
2) Gary Sobers
3) Keith Miller
4) Jacques Kallis
5) Ian Botham

People are overrating Kapil Dev as usual.
 
Only for Tests

1) Gary Sobers
2) Keith Miller
3) Imran Khan
4) Ian Botham
5) Kallis/Kapil

For ODIs, Kapil would be number 1.
 
To anyone thinking of putting Kapil Dev above Ian Botham, let me just say:

Jubilee Test, Bombay, 1980.

Enough said.
 
How about Dev's 183 vs Zimb in 1983 WC?
Yes it was terrific and so was Kapil Dev.

But in an era of four great Test all-rounders, Kapil Dev was the world’s sixth best all-rounder.

(Before you ask, Mike Procter and Clive Rice).
 
To the highlighted bit, imo that's all that matters, how you do vs the best, the rest is just secondary, its what separates men from boys..... Dev was the top dawg, man among boys he was...

Fair enough. Dev was absolutely fantastic against WI and in ODIs, he was the best all-rounder of the four, and might also be the all-time.

A case can be made for him in top 5 as well if we look overall.
 
To anyone thinking of putting Kapil Dev above Ian Botham, let me just say:

Jubilee Test, Bombay, 1980.

Enough said.

An in-form Ian Botham was the greatest AR ever.

He would make the team as a batsman and a bowler. Basically allow his team to play with 12 players. Had this form of his lasted after 82, he would easily be the greatest ever AR.

Only Keith Miller and Sobers had that ability.
 
Yes it was terrific and so was Kapil Dev.

But in an era of four great Test all-rounders, Kapil Dev was the world’s sixth best all-rounder.

(Before you ask, Mike Procter and Clive Rice).

Ok I wont argue bcoz I hv not seen either Dev or Botham play.
 
My ranking was more like:-

Botham is a better batsmen than Kapil quite clearly as visible by difference in average and 100s.

Kapil was on par with Botham as a bowler but not much of a difference.So, overall, I will have Botham over Kapil as a genuine all-rounder.

On WI, you are right. Botham didn't do too well vs them.

I would put Kapil a bit ahead of Botham as a bowler as he had good returns in WI and Australia. Also no Willis at the other end to help him. He went on too long and messed his figures up so he could get the world record.

He should have done better as a batsman especially at home where fast bowling is at a disadvantage. He probably attacked too much, when he could have batted more sensibly like Botham and got more centuries.
 
My ranking was more like:-

Botham is a better batsmen than Kapil quite clearly as visible by difference in average and 100s.

Kapil was on par with Botham as a bowler but not much of a difference.So, overall, I will have Botham over Kapil as a genuine all-rounder.

On WI, you are right. Botham didn't do too well vs them.

I would put Kapil a bit ahead of Botham as a bowler as he had good returns in WI and Australia. Also no Willis at the other end to help him. He went on too long and messed his figures up so he could get the world record.

He should have done better as a batsman especially at home where fast bowling is at a disadvantage. He probably attacked too much, when he could have batted more sensibly like Botham and got more centuries.
 
Shakib above imran,
So shakib is better than the greatest Pakistani cricketer ever?
What do you think about tendulkar vs shakib?
Is tendulkar good enough for comparison?

As I said my ranking was in no particular order. Anyway, we r talking about some of the greatest allrounders of all time across all formats. How can someone with a functional brain put kapil in that list is beyond my understanding. Doesn't kapil average 19 or something like that with the bat outside Asia in ODIs ? He was a decent bowler who could slog a bit, someone like Mitchell Johnson. But that's it, nothing more than that.
 
To anyone thinking of putting Kapil Dev above Ian Botham, let me just say:

Jubilee Test, Bombay, 1980.

Enough said.

To anyone who thinks Botham is better than Dev, below are the stats vs the best side of their era the WI. Botham def wins the higher bowling avg of 35 :)))

Enuff Said:

Kapil Dev:

1978-1989 - 25 1079 126* 30.82 3 89 9/83 24.89

Ian Botham:

1980-1991 - 20 792 81 21.40 0 61 8/103 35.18
 
He should have done better as a batsman especially at home where fast bowling is at a disadvantage. He probably attacked too much, when he could have batted more sensibly like Botham and got more centuries.


Oh good you are now talking sensibly, Yes Gavaskar once back in his playing days said: Kapil Dev was the most talented batsmen he had ever seen and also said a man of that batting talent should score atleast 10,000 runs however Kapil Dev would never fullfill his potential because he does not care about his batting.

Had he batted sensibly 10,000 runs was within his capacity with about 20-25 odd 100s. A man who can go into the WI and smack the great WI bowlers of the 80s around all over the park like they were nothing, is a man of serious ability... Such a shame...
 
My top 5 allrounder across all formats in no particular order

1. Sobers
2. Kallis
3. Shakib
4. Imran
5. Botham

Rofl. Shakib the one who hides when team is to play in tougher condition? and comes back when things are easy. This guy is actually one of the most overrated all rounder i have seen without any impact for the side. Bangladesh have much better impact players than him.
 
What would be your ranking of all-rounders overall?
I don’t think you can directly compare the three categories of quick bowling all-rounder. They are too different.

1. Batting all-rounders

1. Garry Sobers
2. Jacques Kallis
3. Clive Rice
4. Eddie Barlow

2. Balanced all-rounders

1. Imran Khan
2. Keith Miller
3. Mike Procter
4. Ian Botham (up to 1985)
5. Shaun Pollock
6. Kapil Dev
7. Tony Greig

3. Bowling all-rounders

1. Richard Hadlee
2= Wasim Akram
2= Alan Davidson

Everyone listed above was a fabulous player who would be the best player in the world today.
 
Sobers
Imran
Miller
Kallis
Botham

Hadlee was 5* with the ball but not much of a bat. Kapil was ok at both, outstanding in neither area.
 
To anyone thinking of putting Kapil Dev above Ian Botham, let me just say:

Jubilee Test, Bombay, 1980.

Enough said.

How can anyone come to a conclusion based on just a single match? Applying your logic it can also be proved that Laxman>Ponting or maybe even more nonsensical conclusions like Srinath>Waqar, Cairns>McGrath, Samaraweera>Kallis etc. Can't take a match in isolation and come to a decision. In tests Botham>Kapil I agree but your way of arriving at the deduction is moronic.
 
There is 6 now. You forgot to add Hardik pandya!! [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] what do ya reckon?
 
.
 

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How in the world did Sakib Al Hasan come into this thread ??? Oh good lord Bangla pussey cats feel the need to be counted... Sakib would have been killed playing the WI bowlers of the 80s without helmets.. Let it go bangla pussey cats, you players are invalid.... MEooWwwwwwwww

Looks like u r getting a bit worked up here. Haha, calm down. But i can understand ur frustration though. The bubble of kapil being one of the greatest all rounders of all time has already been burst in this thread. U r at the anger stage now in the cycle of acceptance. U just need to pass couple of more stages to accept this cold hard fact.

Anyway, This is the batting and bowling average of slogger Kapil outside asia in odis in bilateral series. I have to say even many taienders these days have better batting average than that.

Capture.jpg

This is the batting and bowling average of Kapil in tests away from home. Nothing surprising here either. They r also as mediocre as his odi stats
Kapil.jpg

Compared to that mediocriety this is Shakib's Batting and bowling average in tests away from home
View attachment 85457

This is the batting and bowling average of Kapil in SENA countries in tests. I have to say this also looks quite mediocore for someone who is claimed as one of the greatest allrounders of all time. A test bowling average of 33 in fast bowling friendly wickets of SENA and he is hailed as one of the greatest allrouners of all time. Is this some sort of joke or what?
View attachment 85459

And here is Shakib's mind boggling batting and bowling records in SENA countries where he also scred a double ton something which Kapil coul not manage to score in his entire career.

View attachment 85460

Anyway, i think u have got enough reality check for today. Now go and cry somewhere else. Shakib is miles ahead of Kapil as an allrounder in tests. As a matter of fact he is the second greatest allrounder to ever come out of Asia. Keep that in mind. :))
 
Looks like u r getting a bit worked up here. Haha, calm down. But i can understand ur frustration though. The bubble of kapil being one of the greatest all rounders of all time has already been burst in this thread. U r at the anger stage now in the cycle of acceptance. U just need to pass couple of more stages to accept this cold hard fact.

Anyway, This is the batting and bowling average of slogger Kapil outside asia in odis in bilateral series. I have to say even many taienders these days have better batting average than that.

View attachment 85462

This is the batting and bowling average of Kapil in tests away from home. Nothing surprising here either. They r also as mediocre as his odi stats
View attachment 85461

Compared to that mediocriety this is Shakib's Batting and bowling average in tests away from home
View attachment 85457

This is the batting and bowling average of Kapil in SENA countries in tests. I have to say this also looks quite mediocore for someone who is claimed as one of the greatest allrounders of all time. A test bowling average of 33 in fast bowling friendly wickets of SENA and he is hailed as one of the greatest allrouners of all time. Is this some sort of joke or what?
View attachment 85459

And here is Shakib's mind boggling batting and bowling records in SENA countries where he also scred a double ton something which Kapil coul not manage to score in his entire career.

View attachment 85460

Anyway, i think u have got enough reality check for today. Now go and cry somewhere else. Shakib is miles ahead of Kapil as an allrounder in tests. As a matter of fact he is the second greatest allrounder to ever come out of Asia. Keep that in mind. :))

Kudos.

Of course anyone who saw Kapil Dev knows he was NOT a especially special cricketer. He was a decent bowler and a biffer with the bat. He was clearly inferior to Imran Khan and Botham as an AR.
 
Looks like u r getting a bit worked up here. Haha, calm down. But i can understand ur frustration though. The bubble of kapil being one of the greatest all rounders of all time has already been burst in this thread. U r at the anger stage now in the cycle of acceptance. U just need to pass couple of more stages to accept this cold hard fact.

Anyway, This is the batting and bowling average of slogger Kapil outside asia in odis in bilateral series. I have to say even many taienders these days have better batting average than that.

View attachment 85462

This is the batting and bowling average of Kapil in tests away from home. Nothing surprising here either. They r also as mediocre as his odi stats
View attachment 85461

Compared to that mediocriety this is Shakib's Batting and bowling average in tests away from home
View attachment 85457

This is the batting and bowling average of Kapil in SENA countries in tests. I have to say this also looks quite mediocore for someone who is claimed as one of the greatest allrounders of all time. A test bowling average of 33 in fast bowling friendly wickets of SENA and he is hailed as one of the greatest allrouners of all time. Is this some sort of joke or what?
View attachment 85459

And here is Shakib's mind boggling batting and bowling records in SENA countries where he also scred a double ton something which Kapil coul not manage to score in his entire career.

View attachment 85460

Anyway, i think u have got enough reality check for today. Now go and cry somewhere else. Shakib is miles ahead of Kapil as an allrounder in tests. As a matter of fact he is the second greatest allrounder to ever come out of Asia. Keep that in mind. :))

Indians and [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] will attempt mental gymnastics to try and undermine your FACT based arguments. :)))
 
An in-form Ian Botham was the greatest AR ever.

He would make the team as a batsman and a bowler. Basically allow his team to play with 12 players. Had this form of his lasted after 82, he would easily be the greatest ever AR.

Only Keith Miller and Sobers had that ability.

Could not agree with you more.At his best Botham was arguably the best ever like in 1981Ashes and 1980 Jubilee test in Mumbai.Still he was never morally the equal of Sobers who in terms of pure all round skill was supreme as his figures proved in his peak.
 
An in-form Ian Botham was the greatest AR ever.

He would make the team as a batsman and a bowler. Basically allow his team to play with 12 players. Had this form of his lasted after 82, he would easily be the greatest ever AR.

Only Keith Miller and Sobers had that ability.

Miller was in terms of pure skill with bat and ball and consistency in all round performance 2 nd only to Sobers and being a fast bowler was arguably the best match winner.
 
I don’t think you can directly compare the three categories of quick bowling all-rounder. They are too different.

1. Batting all-rounders

1. Garry Sobers
2. Jacques Kallis
3. Clive Rice
4. Eddie Barlow

2. Balanced all-rounders

1. Imran Khan
2. Keith Miller
3. Mike Procter
4. Ian Botham (up to 1985)
5. Shaun Pollock
6. Kapil Dev
7. Tony Greig

3. Bowling all-rounders

1. Richard Hadlee
2= Wasim Akram
2= Alan Davidson

Everyone listed above was a fabulous player who would be the best player in the world today.
Why would you not rank Sobers outright at the top on another pedestal and not class him a balanced all rounder?Remember his outstanding bowling skill and variety and number of times he turned games with both bat and ball?At his peak Botham should be at no 1 in your division .I feel Miller was most balanced with Imran not being at his best with bot bat and ball.For pure all round performance Sobers.Miller and Botham would edge Imran who was basically a fast bowling allrounder.Considering consistency in that category Imran and Miller would fight it out for no 1.
 
Sobers
Imran
Miller
Kapil
Botham


Can anyone tell me how many test 5 fers Kallis had againist a Aus India Eng Pak SL or NZ?
How Kapil ahead of Botham Totally agree on Sobers at the top.I fell Miler was a more consistent performer with both bat and ball than Imran and overall it was a virtual draw between Imran,Botham and Miller.Botham at his peak turned more games with both bat and ball than anybody.Why is Kallis not ranked closer to Sobers?
 
The poster above makes a great case for Shakib being a better all-rounder than Kapil. Would love to see one of these Devdas fans try to counter his arguments.

Regardless, Kapil should not even be in the conversation when discussing the greatest all-rounders of all time.
 
Why this SENA during Kapil era, lol??

West Indies minnows the kya?
 
Why this SENA during Kapil era, lol??

West Indies minnows the kya?

Exactly, the lengths people will go to just to reinforce their agenda. Purposely ignoring Kapil's record against the GOAT team and manipulating numbers to put him down, small people indeed.
 
The poster above makes a great case for Shakib being a better all-rounder than Kapil. Would love to see one of these Devdas fans try to counter his arguments.

Regardless, Kapil should not even be in the conversation when discussing the greatest all-rounders of all time.

The poster who made that case also rated Shakib over Imran and Botham if you scroll the page up, because he is an unapologetic troll. Even his numbers are incorrect because he removed Kapil's stats against GOAT WI to make him look worse. Kapil may not be in the reckoning in such a discussion but Shakib is a coward who skips overseas assignments to protect his reputation. Stats aren't the be all end all otherwise many modern day mediocre players will supersede players like Aravinda, Vishy, Amarnath, Qadir, Gupte, Majid etc.
 
Only for Tests

1) Gary Sobers
2) Keith Miller
3) Imran Khan
4) Ian Botham
5) Kallis/Kapil

For ODIs, Kapil would be number 1.

Botham isn't ahead of Kallis. Laughable really how you overhype older SA players but underrate the ones after 92.

Look at Botham performance against best team, WI?? What match-winning ability you are talking if he can't deliver against the best?

The consensus of Kallis not being a match-winner is because he didn't do well against Australia when they had McGrath and Warne and at that time, they were the best team in the world. Other than that, Kallis has done brilliantly as well.

He has won his team a test series in India and Pakistan and played pivotal role in many of SA home wins. I remember he won his team a match in England with the bowl as well.

So, I will have Sobers, Imran, Miller, Kallis, Botham in this order only.
Why do you rank Miller above Kalllis and not Kalllis 2 nd with his staggering record?
 
Why do you rank Miller above Kalllis and not Kalllis 2 nd with his staggering record?

Miller rated very highly by older blokes, a genuine all-rounder and many believe he was a better batsmen than all of the 80s quartet and as a bowler, he was only behind Imran and Hadlee.

He also lost years of his peak due to World War. So, all in all, I will have him behind Sobers and Imran and ahead of Kallis followed by Botham and then Kapil.
 
Indians and [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] will attempt mental gymnastics to try and undermine your FACT based arguments. :)))

Stats alone do not define greatness. Shakib is a wonderful player and can compete with any all-rounder based on stats alone, but compared to the great all-rounders in history including Kapil, he has a Mickey Mouse legacy.
 
Comparing shakib to great all rounders of the past is like comparing Rubel Husain to Malcolm Marshal. For starters, Kapil almost single handedly won the world cup while he was all of 24 yrd old. No one comes close to this achievement. When most teams used to get blasted by WI, he captained India to defeating WI twice, not once in 1983 WC. For all other all rounders of his generation including Imran and Botham, Kapil was the role model for large part of their careers. His problem was he achieved too much too early, and couldn't care about his stats once he won th WC.
 
Kapil Dev:

1978-1989 - 25 1079 126* 30.82 3 89 9/83 24.89

Ian Botham:

1980-1991 - 20 792 81 21.40 0 61 8/103 35.18

I was there to see that 81 and that 8/103 which came on the same day. Botham was running in very hard and bowled quicker than usual. It was a great day. People stood around the nets watching the nursery kids bowl at Clive Lloyd. He took guard right handed and let one little lad bowl him out.

One thing I found curious about Kapil’s bowling was the lack of success in England, where I would have expected him to do very well.
 
Comparing shakib to great all rounders of the past is like comparing Rubel Husain to Malcolm Marshal. For starters, Kapil almost single handedly won the world cup while he was all of 24 yrd old. No one comes close to this achievement. When most teams used to get blasted by WI, he captained India to defeating WI twice, not once in 1983 WC. For all other all rounders of his generation including Imran and Botham, Kapil was the role model for large part of their careers. His problem was he achieved too much too early, and couldn't care about his stats once he won th WC.

Nice counter factual. Imran and Botham were always better regarded. LOL @ stats. His returns are moderate at best.
 
Looks like u r getting a bit worked up here. Haha, calm down. But i can understand ur frustration though. The bubble of kapil being one of the greatest all rounders of all time has already been burst in this thread. U r at the anger stage now in the cycle of acceptance. U just need to pass couple of more stages to accept this cold hard fact.

Anyway, This is the batting and bowling average of slogger Kapil outside asia in odis in bilateral series. I have to say even many taienders these days have better batting average than that.

View attachment 85462

This is the batting and bowling average of Kapil in tests away from home. Nothing surprising here either. They r also as mediocre as his odi stats
View attachment 85461

Compared to that mediocriety this is Shakib's Batting and bowling average in tests away from home
View attachment 85457

This is the batting and bowling average of Kapil in SENA countries in tests. I have to say this also looks quite mediocore for someone who is claimed as one of the greatest allrounders of all time. A test bowling average of 33 in fast bowling friendly wickets of SENA and he is hailed as one of the greatest allrouners of all time. Is this some sort of joke or what?
View attachment 85459

And here is Shakib's mind boggling batting and bowling records in SENA countries where he also scred a double ton something which Kapil coul not manage to score in his entire career.

View attachment 85460

Anyway, i think u have got enough reality check for today. Now go and cry somewhere else. Shakib is miles ahead of Kapil as an allrounder in tests. As a matter of fact he is the second greatest allrounder to ever come out of Asia. Keep that in mind. :))

Again, how did Sakib become relevant again? As i said previously, your players are invalid :angel:
 
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One thing I found curious about Kapil’s bowling was the lack of success in England, where I would have expected him to do very well.

Before the first Eng tour, there was huge hype that Dev was going to ball well in ENG but for whatever reasons he turned into a batsmen in ENG and forgot how to ball. It is a curious case indeed, same goes for NZ, he was terrible there. It amazes me how a player can play so well against the best side of his era WI and ball real well in Australia but would not show up against lesser opponents......
 
NAh bro, Imran won the WC by fluke, wasn't for rain there is no Imran legacy today... :angel:

Hi Mamoon. :)))

I didn't realize the WC was in the Test format. I thought his legacy was based on an age of total domination in the highest form.

Even for that WC, the loss/gain on the rain rule balanced out for Pk. They were ahead of the game v RSA if I recall.

India has ATG players, why the need to try and lionize Kapil (who was good but not top draw) baffles me?
 
IK; great captain, bowler, and batsman.

What else could you ask for in a cricket team?
 
Hi Mamoon. :)))

I didn't realize the WC was in the Test format. I thought his legacy was based on an age of total domination in the highest form.

Even for that WC, the loss/gain on the rain rule balanced out for Pk. They were ahead of the game v RSA if I recall.

India has ATG players, why the need to try and lionize Kapil (who was good but not top draw) baffles me?

It was a fluke WC win for Imran not for DEV, but Imran is better than Dev no one would argue it. However stats vs the WI for Imran and Dev are neck and neck, that's the main factor imo....
 
It was a fluke WC win for Imran not for DEV, but Imran is better than Dev no one would argue it. However stats vs the WI for Imran and Dev are neck and neck, that's the main factor imo....

How can a team fluke a WC? They qualified thru the pool, bt NZ *2 and then stormed it. India deffo fluked 83 v WI. The gulf was huge.

For any other major Test country, Kapil would not make their XI as a bowler.
 
Shakib Al Hasan wont be playing 10 test matches if he was an Indian. No expert has ever listed Shakib in their top all rounder list. But we get to read essays here, how Shakib is better than Kapil etc. Another classic case of Bangla fans somehow trying to fit in their players amongst big boys...DUH.
 
How can a team fluke a WC? They qualified thru the pool, bt NZ *2 and then stormed it. India deffo fluked 83 v WI. The gulf was huge.

For any other major Test country, Kapil would not make their XI as a bowler.

Nope, DEV led India side beat WI twice in that 83 WC tourney, no fluke there sunshine, only team to beat WI in that series I believe... If there was no rain in 92, there would be no cornered tiger speech, Imran would have lived in DEV's shadow forever, fact... Also to DEV not making any major team's 11 as a bowler, well DEV was an allrounder, and he would make into plenty of teams side as an allrounder. Stats speak for themselves; DEV and Imran are neck and neck in performance vs the best side of their era the WI..
 
Shakib Al Hasan wont be playing 10 test matches if he was an Indian. No expert has ever listed Shakib in their top all rounder list. But we get to read essays here, how Shakib is better than Kapil etc. Another classic case of Bangla fans somehow trying to fit in their players amongst big boys...DUH.

Bangla kitty kats ... Meowww.. :P
 
How can a team fluke a WC? They qualified thru the pool, bt NZ *2 and then stormed it. India deffo fluked 83 v WI. The gulf was huge.

For any other major Test country, Kapil would not make their XI as a bowler.

Pakistan got all out for 74 vs Eng in a must win league game. Eng was 24/1 chasing and then match got washed out. Without rain, Pak was out of the tournament in that match.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-13th-match-benson-&-hedges-world-cup-1991-92

Also, India had beaten WI not only in finals but also in league game in 1983 WC. Hard to believe you can fluke 2 wins in the same tournament against ATG WI side.

Why is it so tough to give credit where due? How about BD try to fluke 1 world cup win first?Or any other ICC event? Or an Asia cup? Or even a tri series?

Only big talks....result zero.
 
Luck is an integral part of any endeavor whether it be politics or sports.

There is no way a team can "fluke" its way to a WC victory. That word has become almost as overused as "mercurial" or "unpredictable" on PP.
 
Pakistan got all out for 74 vs Eng in a must win league game. Eng was 24/1 chasing and then match got washed out. Without rain, Pak was out of the tournament in that match.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-13th-match-benson-&-hedges-world-cup-1991-92

Also, India had beaten WI not only in finals but also in league game in 1983 WC. Hard to believe you can fluke 2 wins in the same tournament against ATG WI side.

Why is it so tough to give credit where due? How about BD try to fluke 1 world cup win first?Or any other ICC event? Or an Asia cup? Or even a tri series?

Only big talks....result zero.

As detailed the rain denied Pk v RSA so these things balance out. Even then it would only has eased their path to the KO stage. They did not just hand Pk the cup after the wash out.

Indian insecurity is very funny. Hell, even the CIA noted it in their country analysis. 😄
 
Nope, DEV led India side beat WI twice in that 83 WC tourney, no fluke there sunshine, only team to beat WI in that series I believe... If there was no rain in 92, there would be no cornered tiger speech, Imran would have lived in DEV's shadow forever, fact... Also to DEV not making any major team's 11 as a bowler, well DEV was an allrounder, and he would make into plenty of teams side as an allrounder. Stats speak for themselves; DEV and Imran are neck and neck in performance vs the best side of their era the WI..

I take it other teams dont count?
In that same vector of logic, no one rates Kapil as the equal to ITB or IK as his overall returns are MEDIOCRE.
Even as an AR (in AT XIs), he'd not make WI, Eng, RSA, Aus or Pk's side. All have far superior options.
 
I take it other teams dont count?
In that same vector of logic, no one rates Kapil as the equal to ITB or IK as his overall returns are MEDIOCRE.
Even as an AR (in AT XIs), he'd not make WI, Eng, RSA, Aus or Pk's side. All have far superior options.

Other teams are secondary, all that matters is what you do vs the best. This is the reason why players like Inzi & Mohd Yousuf etc will always be considered second tier batsmen outside of Pakistan..... AT XIs ? oh who cares about some random guys figment of imagination lol :)).. A young up & coming Kapil Dev would easily make it to the AUS & RSA side of any era, obviously he would not make it into the old WI side of the 80s as that team was invincible and there is no place for him on a team with no weakness. ENG would pick DEV instantly if they wanted a player who would show up vs the best otherwise they would keep Botham to show up against all the secondary teams. As for Pakistan, there is already an all rounder in Imran Khan so naturally he would not make it.
 
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