Forced conversions in Pakistan

[uberkoen]

Forced conversions are a major problem in Pakistan and unfortunately nothing is being done to tackle this issue. We raise our voices for Kashmir, Palestine and Muslims all over the world yet this is happening to Pakistani's in our own backyard and we sit quietly.

It has been estimated that 1000 women and girls from religious minorities are abducted, forcibly converted and then married off to their
abductors every year.

Pakistan has signed and ratified the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights and ratified the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), of which Article 16 confirms the right of every woman to enter into marriage ‘only with their free and full consent’. Pakistan has ratified the Child Rights Convention, of which Article 14 (1) states that state parties need to respect the right of children to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

The state has responsibility to provide protection against individuals or organisations that try to convert people by resorting to means of coercion or by directly exploiting situations of particular vulnerability. They also have a responsibility to ensure that forced conversions do not occur in the context of marriage or marriage negotiations.

Pakistan is failing to fulfill their obligations under these international treaties to protect the rights of vulnerable minorities from forced conversions and forced marriages.

I really think should protect our own minorities before pointing fingers at others like we usually do. This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[saeedhk]

This is a huge problem in Sindh but nobody is willing to talk about it and address it. Hundreds of minor Hindu girls are forcibly converted to Islam and then married off to older Muslim men. In some cases, the groom is twice as old as the bride.

One of the main culprits on forced conversions in Mian Mitho who hails from Sindh. He is a highly influential preachers who has converted hundreds of minor Hindu girls. He is politically- connected as well.

Another element of the forced conversions is that all those who supposedly accept Islam are females.

How come no males are converted to Islam? And, why aren’t Muslim men not converting Hindu men and marry off their sisters and daughters to them?

 

[saeedhk]

Despite all this, Pakistanis have the guts to cry about the treatment of Muslim minorities in India and faraway lands. This is a nation of hypocrites!

 

[Mamoon]

This is the true face of Pakistan.

Then we wonder why we have zero credibility on international forums, and why the world doesn’t take our moral high ground with respect to India seriously.

 

[uberkoen]

So just to clarify, I saw a video where a hindu woman was crying about her 14 year old daughter who was forced into a marriage and converted to Islam. This is why I made the post. This happened on 26th of June 2020 in Sindh.

 

[saeedhk]

So just to clarify, I saw a video where a hindu woman was crying about her 14 year old daughter who was forced into a marriage and converted to Islam. This is why I made the post. This happened on 26th of June 2020 in Sindh.

There are dozens of such videos. I have seen a lot!

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Any forced conversion is wrong, however lets keep in mind that the Hindu population is stable since 1951. So there is no large scale conversions happening.

Also we need to keep in mind that whenever Muslim men marry non Muslim women, usually the women converts or at minimum the children our raised Muslim. I have seen plenty of examples here in the US, when Pakistani men regardless of how religious they are marrying white women, and the women has converted or agreed to raise the children Muslim. This also happens in Canada, England, Australia, India, so we should not be surprised that non Muslim women convert to marry Pakistani Muslim men in Pakistan.

The fair solution is that Pakistani Muslim women and non Muslim men can also marry. Any restrictions on those marriages should be removed. However we should not expect what has been happening in the last 1,000 years, of Muslim men marrying non Muslim women, to change any time soon.

And last point. In many cases when parents allege underage daughters have been married to Muslim men, its later found out that those girls are over 18, and it was a love marriage.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

This is a huge problem in Sindh but nobody is willing to talk about it and address it. Hundreds of minor Hindu girls are forcibly converted to Islam and then married off to older Muslim men. In some cases, the groom is twice as old as the bride.

One of the main culprits on forced conversions in Mian Mitho who hails from Sindh. He is a highly influential preachers who has converted hundreds of minor Hindu girls. He is politically- connected as well.

Another element of the forced conversions is that all those who supposedly accept Islam are females.

How come no males are converted to Islam? And, why aren’t Muslim men not converting Hindu men and marry off their sisters and daughters to them?

Its not that care about Islam. In alot of cases they simply want to marry a man who happens to be Muslim. If white women in US, Canada, Australia, England convert to marry Muslim men, even when that man is not religious at all, and drinks does not pray, etc, we should not be surprised that non Muslim women in Pakistan also convert to marry Pakistani Muslim men.

The change that is needed is that non Muslim men can marry Muslim women. That is the only fair solution.

 

[Buffet]

And last point. In many cases when parents allege underage daughters have been married to Muslim men, its later found out that those girls are over 18, and it was a love marriage.

The Peoples Commission for Minorities’ Rights and the Centre for Social Justice compiled the data of 156 incidents of forced conversions which took place between 2013 and 2019. A vast majority of the girls are minors, with numerous cases of girls as young as 12 years old.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1548550

 

[BreadPakoda]

Any forced conversion is wrong, however lets keep in mind that the Hindu population is stable since 1951. So there is no large scale conversions happening.

Also we need to keep in mind that whenever Muslim men marry non Muslim women, usually the women converts or at minimum the children our raised Muslim. I have seen plenty of examples here in the US, when Pakistani men regardless of how religious they are marrying white women, and the women has converted or agreed to raise the children Muslim. This also happens in Canada, England, Australia, India, so we should not be surprised that non Muslim women convert to marry Pakistani Muslim men in Pakistan.

The fair solution is that Pakistani Muslim women and non Muslim men can also marry. Any restrictions on those marriages should be removed. However we should not expect what has been happening in the last 1,000 years, of Muslim men marrying non Muslim women, to change any time soon.

And last point. In many cases when parents allege underage daughters have been married to Muslim men, its later found out that those girls are over 18, and it was a love marriage.

Lovely. Off to an entirely different tangent.

 

[uberkoen]

Any forced conversion is wrong, however lets keep in mind that the Hindu population is stable since 1951. So there is no large scale conversions happening.

Also we need to keep in mind that whenever Muslim men marry non Muslim women, usually the women converts or at minimum the children our raised Muslim. I have seen plenty of examples here in the US, when Pakistani men regardless of how religious they are marrying white women, and the women has converted or agreed to raise the children Muslim. This also happens in Canada, England, Australia, India, so we should not be surprised that non Muslim women convert to marry Pakistani Muslim men in Pakistan.

The fair solution is that Pakistani Muslim women and non Muslim men can also marry. Any restrictions on those marriages should be removed. However we should not expect what has been happening in the last 1,000 years, of Muslim men marrying non Muslim women, to change any time soon.

And last point. In many cases when parents allege underage daughters have been married to Muslim men, its later found out that those girls are over 18, and it was a love marriage.

You are wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The Peoples Commission for Minorities’ Rights and the Centre for Social Justice compiled the data of 156 incidents of forced conversions which took place between 2013 and 2019. A vast majority of the girls are minors, with numerous cases of girls as young as 12 years old.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1548550

I quote from the article you listed

"In March 2019, nearly 2,000 Hindus staged a sit-in to demand justice for two sisters, Reena and Raveena, who they claimed were forcibly converted and married. The Islamabad High Court ruled the girls had willingly converted and married the men. "

The father of those girls had stated that they were 12 and 13, and were forcibly converted. It went to the courts and the medical test proved that they were over 18.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1475372

So either the father of the girls lied, or the courts are in on it.


That does not mean forced marriage does not happen, it does. But it does not happen exclusively to minority girls. In interior Sindh wadera's oppress both Muslim and Hindu.


Not to mention there are millions of Pakistani women who have to marry men there parents choose because of arranged marriage.

I think its best to focus on improving women's rights than try to make it a religious issue.

 

[topspin]

This is what happens when you turn a stable country with secular values (as it was in the 60s) to a breeding ground for religious intolerance and extremism. All thanks to General Zia-ul-Haq ofc.

 

[uberkoen]

This is what happens when you turn a stable country with secular values (as it was in the 60s) to a breeding ground for religious intolerance and extremism. All thanks to General Zia-ul-Haq ofc.

Started with Bhutto though.

 

[saeedhk]

Clerics reject proposed anti-forced conversion bill

ISLAMABAD : Clerics belonging to all the four mainstream schools of thought on Thursday rejected the draft Anti-Forced Conversion Bill, calling it a conspiracy and suggested that the government should not fall into the trap of the West by taking the draft bill to parliament.

At a meeting, chaired by Council of Islamic Ideology (CII) Chairman Dr Qibla Ayaz, they reviewed the draft bill. Minister for religious affairs Pir Noorul Haq Qadri attended the meeting held to commemorate the completion of three years of the present government.
The meeting was attended by senior officials of the CII, Ministry of Religious Affairs and clerics belonging to the four mainstream schools of thought in the country - Shia, Barelvi, Deobandi and Ahle Hadis.

The participants criticised the Ministry of Human Rights for not sharing with them the report of Senator Anwaarul Haq Kakar when he was the chairman of the Parliamentary Committee to Protect Minorities from Forced Conversions.
The officials of the Ministry of Religious Affairs told the clerics that the report had been received from the Ministry of Human Rights and would be provided to them on Friday (today).

Incidentally, not only the clerics but even the officials were unanimous in declaring that there was no forced conversion in the country and most of the cases related to “love affairs between individuals”.

The meeting also unanimously rejected the title of the draft bill - Anti Forced Conversion - and one of the clerics later said the bill was a trap and the government should avoid it at all cost.
The cleric on the condition of anonymity added that it had been decided in the meeting that none of the participants would speak about the subject in public.

The meeting formed a committee headed by Dr Inamullah Khan, head of research at the CII, and including officials of the Ministry of Religious Affairs for suggesting an alternate name for the bill and eradicating controversial clauses in it.

Meanwhile, in another meeting, the National Commission for Minorities (NCM) too decided to formulate proposals for the bill against forced conversion.
The meeting of the NCM was chaired by Cheela Ram Kewalani and was briefed by Secretary Religious Affairs Sardar Ijaz Khan Jaffar and other officials of the Ministry of Law, Human Rights and Nadra.

The meeting noted that suggestions had been received from all stakeholders over the draft law to protect minorities, and after formulating all the proposals the draft would be sent to the Ministry of Law for vetting.

The chairman of the NCM said a law to protect religious minorities from forced conversion was the need of time and the commission was compiling proposals in this regard.

The meeting noted that the commission can play an effective role in promoting religious harmony in society, and lauded the government for arresting the culprits who disgraced the

Ganesh Mandir in Bhong, Rahim Yar Khan, and started the rebuilding of the temple.
“Such incidents not only hurt the religious minorities but also the Muslim brothers,” Mr Cheela Ram added.

“The dignity of the entire Pakistani nation has been tarnished due to the incompetence of some people,” he added.

However, the commission noted that before the Bhong temple tragedy, the administration had shown negligence but such negligence should not be repeated and it could have been averted had recommendations of the “Implementing Commission on Terry Temple, Karak, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, been adopted by the Punjab government.

Source:https://www.dawn.com/news/1642778

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Ofcourse this is a big problem in the country not from a few years but since decades.

The so called clerics don't obviously want this anti forced conversion bill passed that has been brought by the current PTI government to get accepted in Parliament.

 

[Justcrazy]

That is why Pakistan is a Muslim state and not an Islamic state.

 

[rockyboy2018]

I do not understand one thing with Pakistani Islamic mulvis and scholars.All the time they talk about the west is being bad and they are busy doing conspiracy. The reality is, hardly anyone knows much about Pakistan apart from being a terrorist nation if someone happens to know about it. However, the funny thing is, all their sons and daughters get to study in the west and enjoy the freedom. It is simply a case of being two-faced. Forced conversions are not religious at all and go against the wishes of God. People should choose whichever religion they think is right for them.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The Hindu population in Pakistan has risen by 34% since 1941

The 2019 Census gave the following figures for Religion:

On the basis of religions, the total population count includes 96.47pc Muslims, followed by 1.27pc Christians, 1.73pc Hindus, 0.09pc Ahmadis, 0.41pc scheduled caste and 0.02pc others.

So that gives a total Hindu population of 2.14%.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1624375

1951 Census gave the following figures for Religion:

Hindu 1.6%
Muslim 97.41%


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFhkrw3WkAEVMlc.jpg

http://lsi.gov.in:8081/jspui/bitstream/123456789/7452/1/1422_1951_POP.pdf

Also the Muslim population has decreased. This idea that their is a mass conversion of Hindu girls is completely false. This idea that their is a mass conversion of minorities is false.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Incidentally, not only the clerics but even the officials were unanimous in declaring that there was no forced conversion in the country and most of the cases related to “love affairs between individuals”.

The meeting also unanimously rejected the title of the draft bill - Anti Forced Conversion - and one of the clerics later said the bill was a trap and the government should avoid it at all cost.
The cleric on the condition of anonymity added that it had been decided in the meeting that none of the participants would speak about the subject in public.

Source:https://www.dawn.com/news/1642778

Ofcourse this is a big problem in the country not from a few years but since decades.

The so called clerics don't obviously want this anti forced conversion bill passed that has been brought by the current PTI government to get accepted in Parliament.

Good. Its rare that i agree with the Mullahs but these are false accusations that can be verified by checking census figures.

 

[street cricketer]

The Hindu population in Pakistan has risen by 34% since 1941

The 2019 Census gave the following figures for Religion:



So that gives a total Hindu population of 2.14%.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1624375

1951 Census gave the following figures for Religion:

Hindu 1.6%
Muslim 97.41%


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFhkrw3WkAEVMlc.jpg

http://lsi.gov.in:8081/jspui/bitstream/123456789/7452/1/1422_1951_POP.pdf

Also the Muslim population has decreased. This idea that their is a mass conversion of Hindu girls is completely false. This idea that their is a mass conversion of minorities is false.

There were 3.25 million people in Jammu and Kashmir in 1951 on the Indian side. There were 12.5 million people living there according to the last 2011 census. Their population has increased by 385% and their population as a percentage to India has also increased from being 0.9% of the total population of India in 1951 to 1.02% of the total population of India in 2011. Also the hindu population in the Kashmir valley has decreased.

This idea that there has been a mass killing of Kashmiris in India is completely false.

 

[PakLFC]

Some days back I was criticised here when pointing out the condition of non Muslim's in Pak when I mentioned the decline in numbers of Hindu's in particular although other non Muslim communities have suffered too. Yes we have a big problem in Pak no doubt about it. Better to accept it then bury our heads in the sand.

It is mostly in rural area's where such problems occur much more then major cities where some non Muslim's are doing very well. Statistics don't tell the real story, no one visits regions like Tharparkar or rural Sindh to ask what the real situation is.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

There were 3.25 million people in Jammu and Kashmir in 1951 on the Indian side. There were 12.5 million people living there according to the last 2011 census. Their population has increased by 385%

Kind of pointless to compare the total number of population in 1951 to 2011 to make your point. I did not use the total number of Hindus in 1951 to 2019.

and their population as a percentage to India has also increased from being 0.9% of the total population of India in 1951 to 1.02% of the total population of India in 2011. Also the hindu population in the Kashmir valley has decreased.

This idea that there has been a mass killing of Kashmiris in India is completely false.

You would have a point with this example, however their is one big difference. With deaths there are reliable stats available. We would know how many people would have died in the Kashmir conflict. What would be impossible to know is how many died because of Indian Army, and how many died because of militants. And if they were killed by the Indian Army, it would be impossible to know how many were innocent civilians or how many were actually militants.

Now as far as forced conversions, perhaps I should have posted their is no reliable evidence that it is happening, instead of saying it is false. However the onus should be on the people making the accusation to provide some proof. They have not done so.

In the OP this was stated

It has been estimated that 1000 women and girls from religious minorities are abducted, forcibly converted and then married off to their abductors every year

Their is not one shred of reliable evidence that can prove this number. As far as I am concerned these NGO's need to provide proof or they are liars.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

It is mostly in rural area's where such problems occur much more then major cities where some non Muslim's are doing very well. Statistics don't tell the real story, no one visits regions like Tharparkar or rural Sindh to ask what the real situation is.

The census was not done on zoom. People actually went to rural Sindh to get the figures.

Some days back I was criticised here when pointing out the condition of non Muslim's in Pak when I mentioned the decline in numbers of Hindu's in particular although other non Muslim communities have suffered too. Yes we have a big problem in Pak no doubt about it. Better to accept it then bury our heads in the sand.

There has been no decline in the Hindu population since 1951. There was a decline from 47 to 51, but that was because Punjab was partitoned. More Muslims went to West Pakistan than Hindus/Sikhs went to India.

6.5 million Muslims moved from India to West Pakistan, and 4.7 million Hindus and Sikhs moved from West Pakistan to India;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India#Independence,_population_transfer_and_violence

So Shukriya to whoever criticized you for mentioning the "decline" of Hindus in Pakistan.

 

[saeedhk]

Good. Its rare that i agree with the Mullahs but these are false accusations that can be verified by checking census figures.

These are not false accusations. This is the reality of this country where minorities are treated as second-grade citizens. The census will show no substaintial decrease in the number of Hindus because high birth rate can easily cover the 1000 forced conversions a year.

 

[PakLFC]

The census was not done on zoom. People actually went to rural Sindh to get the figures.



There has been no decline in the Hindu population since 1951. There was a decline from 47 to 51, but that was because Punjab was partitoned. More Muslims went to West Pakistan than Hindus/Sikhs went to India.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India#Independence,_population_transfer_and_violence

So Shukriya to whoever criticized you for mentioning the "decline" of Hindus in Pakistan.

Do some proper research on the subject. Go around Pak and ask minorities how happy they are instead of depending on dodgy reports.