Former umpire John Holder accuses England team of ball-tampering, and ECB of racism

[Yossarian]

Former England umpire has accused Graham Gooch's England team of ball-tampering in the Test match against the West Indies in 1991, the year before England accused Wasim Akram & co of ball-tampering in the Test series England versus Pakistan in 1992.

Umpire Holder, who is black, also claims that he was taken off the Test panel shortly after reporting the England team ball-tampering incident in his match report. He says the ECB (known previously as the TCCB) has not appointed a black umpire to the Test umpires list ever since.

He also claims that two weeks after that incident, in a 4 day County Championship match between Lancashire and Essex, which Essex needed to win, and the 40 over Sunday League match on the Sunday in-between the County Championship match days, a match that was a must-win for Lancashire, the two captains fixed the outcome whereby Lancashire won the Sunday League match, and returned the favour by declaring early to leave Essex a relatively easy run chase in the four-day match.

Holder is also suing the ECB for racial discrimination.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/12/john-holder-umpire-interview

 

[Varun]

So this happened in 1991 and 1992 and he's suing now?

What a gold digger.

 

[Yossarian]

So this happened in 1991 and 1992 and he's suing now?

What a gold digger.

You must have been living in cuckoo land for the last year or two, or else you'd have realised how the Black Lives Matter movement, along with the sea change in attitudes towards racism in the last few years, are only now giving the courage to victims of racism to come out and tell their stories.

Furthermore, if you bothered to read the article in the link, you'd have read him saying that he would have been frozen out completely, and lost his livelihood had he complained further. In those days, the likes of the TCCB/ECB had the clout to bury any accusations made against them or against England players.

 

[Mamoon]

Another opportunist riding on the BLM propaganda hoping to mint some money.

Nothing to see here.

 

[Rana]

England are as bad as all of them. Nothing to see here

 

[observer1]

Another opportunist riding on the BLM propaganda hoping to mint some money.

Nothing to see here.

Why would you dismiss someone without hearing what he has to say? I wouldn't call it "riding on the BLM propaganda". It's more now or never to reveal what you know without any comebacks.

What have we told you about putting your opinions as facts Mamoon?

 

[James]

Definitely sounds like there could be something to this. More and more reports of racist attitudes within English cricket are now starting to come out. This is another story that needs looking into.

 

[pillionrider]

David Bumble Lloyd epitomizes the smug hypocrisy with which England have played their cricket over the years.

That's why - though I like some England players for their skills, I'll always support Australia over them. At least they're straightforward in their foulplay

 

[Varun]

You must have been living in cuckoo land for the last year or two, or else you'd have realised how the Black Lives Matter movement, along with the sea change in attitudes towards racism in the last few years, are only now giving the courage to victims of racism to come out and tell their stories.

Furthermore, if you bothered to read the article in the link, you'd have read him saying that he would have been frozen out completely, and lost his livelihood had he complained further. In those days, the likes of the TCCB/ECB had the clout to bury any accusations made against them or against England players.

So if he was happy to accept their dime while being tight-lipped over 30 years, at best - he's as much of a protagonist as anybody else in this case.

Last umpired in 2001, mind you.

 

[Yossarian]

Another opportunist riding on the BLM propaganda hoping to mint some money.

Nothing to see here.

BLM propaganda?
Considering how the well off Pakistanis treat with disdain (often even worse than racism) their lower down the pecking order brethren, I'm not surprised someone like you, growing up in a well-to-do Pakistani family, most likely treating their poorer compatriots in the manner described above, claiming that the Black Lives Matter movement is just propaganda. I guess you have to experience racism (which some of us did whilst growing up in the UK) to fully understand the devastating effects of racism.

 

[Markhor]

David Bumble Lloyd epitomizes the smug hypocrisy with which England have played their cricket over the years.

That's why - though I like some England players for their skills, I'll always support Australia over them. At least they're straightforward in their foulplay

What's poor old Bumble done ?! He's harmless.

Anyway these allegations must be properly investigated. Can't have another cover up.

 

[Varun]

What's poor old Bumble done ?! He's harmless.

Nothing sinister about David Lloyd, but after failing as player and coach, he's seemed too desperate to have his bread buttered over the years.

---

 

[Yossarian]

So if he was happy to accept their dime while being tight-lipped over 30 years, at best - he's as much of a protagonist as anybody else in this case.

A black man, trying to earn a living, couldn't afford to rile too much an establishment like the ECB/TCCB, whose members included high court judges, Prime Ministers and the elite of the elite of the British Establishment.

Last umpired in 2001, mind you.

Not appointed another black umpire other than himself. Plus there was a 10 year gap between the incident he mentions, and the 2001 Test.

 

[Hasan123]

This needs to be investigated. And we need to hear the outcome and clear reasons as to why they have reached the outcome they reach. Tired of cover ups and things like this not being investigated.

 

[Rana]

Nothing sinister about David Lloyd, but after failing as player and coach, he's seemed too desperate to have his bread buttered over the years.

---

I would watch Inter v Barca over Delhi Dipsticks also

 

[Varun]

I would watch Inter v Barca over Delhi Dipsticks also

You probably hold the record of creating the most IPL threads on here. You're not fooling anybody.

At least David gets some rupees out of it.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I would watch Inter v Barca over Delhi Dipsticks also

I would prefer Delhi Dipsticks over Lahori Mangosticks..

 

[Rana]

I would prefer Delhi Dipsticks over Lahori Mangosticks..

Lol what is a mango stick )

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Why sue the current management for something people in power did 30 years ago who may or may not be alive now.

 

[silentkiller187]

Nothing sinister about David Lloyd, but after failing as player and coach, he's seemed too desperate to have his bread buttered over the years.

---

What’s bumble done wrong here, Most would love to watch inter Milan vs Barcelona over Delhi dipsticks

 

[silentkiller187]

Former England umpire has accused Graham Gooch's England team of ball-tampering in the Test match against the West Indies in 1991, the year before England accused Wasim Akram & co of ball-tampering in the Test series England versus Pakistan in 1992.

Umpire Holder, who is black, also claims that he was taken off the Test panel shortly after reporting the England team ball-tampering incident in his match report. He says the ECB (known previously as the TCCB) has not appointed a black umpire to the Test umpires list ever since.

He also claims that two weeks after that incident, in a 4 day County Championship match between Lancashire and Essex, which Essex needed to win, and the 40 over Sunday League match on the Sunday in-between the County Championship match days, a match that was a must-win for Lancashire, the two captains fixed the outcome whereby Lancashire won the Sunday League match, and returned the favour by declaring early to leave Essex a relatively easy run chase in the four-day match.

Holder is also suing the ECB for racial discrimination.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/12/john-holder-umpire-interview

This was common knowledge back then, the two ws in county cricket showed their team mates how it was done, the problem for England was they couldn’t execute it because they were not skilful enough, as Geoff boycott once said give 95% of bowlers a bottle top and a ball and they wouldn’t know what to do with it.

 

[Varun]

What’s bumble done wrong here, Most would love to watch inter Milan vs Barcelona over Delhi dipsticks

The hypocrisy was that he said that in 2010, but was happy to become commentator - no less - of the IPL in 2020.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The hypocrisy was that he said that in 2010, but was happy to become commentator - no less - of the IPL in 2020.

Its possible that attitudes change over time. The IPL was very much seen as pyjama cricket by most of the world outside of India during in the first few years of its inception. Franchise cricket was very much an unknown and I doubt anyone outside of India supported a team in the same way that football fans do. It was really just seen as an exhibition of individual players by most non-indians. I guess in the same way that the 100 competition is seen as nonsense by most of us.

10 years later they have built a brilliant team identities, rivalries, quality of cricket has improved and it has an international window.

 

[Varun]

Its possible that attitudes change over time. The IPL was very much seen as pyjama cricket by most of the world outside of India during in the first few years of its inception. Franchise cricket was very much an unknown and I doubt anyone outside of India supported a team in the same way that football fans do. It was really just seen as an exhibition of individual players by most non-indians. I guess in the same way that the 100 competition is seen as nonsense by most of us.

10 years later they have built a brilliant team identities, rivalries, quality of cricket has improved and it has an international window.

To each their own, but I'll use Occam's Razor and go for the simplest explanation for the initially dismissive commentators around the world - a commentary gig attached to a fat paycheck was probably not on offer in 2008, but was on the table in the following years.

 

[TheSultan]

So this happened in 1991 and 1992 and he's suing now?

What a gold digger.

Please learn some history. I remember when this happened very clearly. The guy was silenced and pretty much blacklisted. Everyone knows what happened. This is no secret. The ramifications in those days for speaking out were huge and he was also under contract.

The balance of the world is now in favour of people speaking out so he’s exercising it. Nothing wrong whatsoever is what he’s doing.

And this finally shows the hypocrisy of England in the 1992 series. If anyone followed it at the time we all knew what the score was with John Holder and England in 1991.

 

[pillionrider]

What's poor old Bumble done ?! He's harmless.

Anyway these allegations must be properly investigated. Can't have another cover up.

Varun has explained it quite well. My issues are pretty much this plus a little more.

So while he and some of the other English were turning up their noses at the vulgar, crass and excessively commercialized IPL, he had no conflict of conscience to reference the MRF blimp floating above English grounds while on air. In a contractual way. As in, like twice a day he'd bring it up and there'd be a long shot of it.

I agree that there was and is plenty wrong with some aspects of the IPL and Indian cricket. Personally I've tired of it and have watched it only in snatches over the last 5-6 years. But this guy was shameless enough to come running to the IPL when they offered him a stint.

It's the snobbery that's not grounded enough principles that makes him worthy of nothing but contempt.

 

[pillionrider]

It's the snobbery that's not grounded enough principles that makes him worthy of nothing but contempt.

*not grounded in enough

 

[silentkiller187]

The hypocrisy was that he said that in 2010, but was happy to become commentator - no less - of the IPL in 2020.

People complain about their jobs and companies they work for all the time, they still will do the job, it’s life. It still doesn’t change the fact that most would watch inter and Barcelona than Delhi.

 

[Mamoon]

Does ECB do charity? They could help this guy out. This is quite a creative way to beg for money.

 

[cricket4all]

It was common knowledge back then what Holder is saying now, but why did he not take action then? 30 years a bit too late he is. Maybe the courts can respond in another 30 years as well?

 

[MenInG]

Former umpires John Holder and Ismail Dawood have withdrawn their claim of racial discrimination against the England and Wales Cricket Board.

The pair announced their intention to sue the ECB in December after alleging "institutionalised racism" in November.

Mediation talks took place last week, attended by ECB managing director of county cricket Neil Snowball and Hundred managing director Sanjay Patel.

No payment has been made by the ECB to Holder or Dawood.

"The ECB has been notified that John Holder and Ismail Dawood have withdrawn their employment claims against the ECB without payment of compensation or costs," read an ECB statement.

Holder, 76, stood in 16 Tests between 1988 and 2001.

Dawood, 44, played for Yorkshire, Glamorgan and Worcestershire. He umpired in men's domestic cricket and two women's one-day internationals.

Holder and Dawood have been invited to contribute to the ECB's review of officiating, an invitation that Dawood has declined.

The last BAME umpire to be added to the ECB's first-class panel was Vanburn Holder 29 years ago. There have been none since his retirement in 2010.

Last week, former England fast bowlers Dean Headley and Devon Malcolm were appointed to a supplementary list of match referees.

"The ECB is committed to a world-class diverse and inclusive officiating system, with opportunities for all," read the statement.

"The ECB appreciates Mr Holder and Mr Dawood's engagement in addressing these matters, and will now discuss with Mr Holder his interest in contributing to its ongoing review of officiating."

Before the allegations made by Holder and Dawood, former England batsman Michael Carberry said in June 2020 that racism in cricket was "rife".

Former Yorkshire spinner Azeem Rafiq also alleged "institutional racism" at the county, who have been carrying out an investigation into the claims.

The ECB founded an independent commission for equity in cricket, designed to examine issues relating to race and equity, in November.

On Wednesday, historical tweets of a racist and sexist nature posted by seamer Ollie Robinson came to light while he was making his Test debut for England against New Zealand at Lord's.

Robinson apologised for the tweets, which date back to 2012 and 2013, and the ECB said it will open an investigation.

Mohammed Sadiq Patel, the solicitor that represented Holder and Dawood, said the Robinson case "has reaffirmed institutional failings by the England and Wales Cricket Board concerning racism".

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/57348878

 

[PakLFC]

Better for him to keep quiet about it now. Should have spoken about it then.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

David Bumble Lloyd epitomizes the smug hypocrisy with which England have played their cricket over the years.

That's why - though I like some England players for their skills, I'll always support Australia over them. At least they're straightforward in their foulplay

Bumble was always a bit delusional though so he can be forgiven. This is the same guy who thought England were one of the favourites for the 1999 World Cup when he was coaching and was convinced that England was a much superior side to India and we only knocked them out because Thorpe got a bad decision.

Apart from one fluke tournament win in Sharjah 97, that team had lost every single ODI tournament and this guy legitimately thought they had a chance ) Sums it up really.

 

[zarak]

Does ECB do charity? They could help this guy out. This is quite a creative way to beg for money.

Mate don't be so dismissive of potential racial abuse unless you know the matter in depth.