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France - Bans women wearing headscarfs, but allows them to protest topless in public

KKhan said:
If that's the case, then why not annoy them exercising Nun dress code alike and revive the modesty of the dress code? That's gonna annoy the hell outta nudists. :)

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Sorry, couldn't get your point, brother.
 
Texaco said:
Allowing indecency and lack of morals isn't acceptable in Islam. I am not sure why are you cribbing about it ? Something wrong is wrong. Don't let your hate for Islam rule your judgment.
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I have no doubt it is not acceptable in Islam. My point rather, is that it does not matter what is or isn't acceptable in Islam. Not everyone is Muslim, and not everyone is obligated to cater to the preferences of Muslims.

If Muslims don't like a certain thing, they can avoid it. That is life.
 
Texaco said:
Sorry, couldn't get your point, brother.
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What does nudists hate the most? Plus it is convenient option to get around the system and revive the modesty of dress code to serve reminder. :)

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Texaco said:
As I said, western world may have left it's morals long back, it doesn't mean Muslims also need to follow that style. Islam clearly mentions women to dress properly, hiding their body from the non-maharam male gaze.

Before anyone pounces on me, it also orders men to lower their gaze if inadvertently any woman's body is exposed.
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If women don't want to cover themselves, then they don't have to. If they don't want to follow their religion then they don't have to. Men nitpick religious "laws" that suits them and exercise those laws while completely avoiding the rest. No one follows Islamic laws 100%, but people seem to have issues when people don't follow few laws.
 
KKhan said:
What does nudists hate the most? Plus it is convenient option to get around the system and revive the modesty of dress code to serve reminder. :)

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But this rule helps Muslims women too so this is not a discriminatory rule saying woman can go topless.If rule says only specific religion women can go topless then it should have been a hypocritical issue.
 
Bakasura said:
But this rule helps Muslims women too so this is not a discriminatory rule saying woman can go topless.If rule says only specific religion women can go topless then it should have been a hypocritical issue.
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It is discrimination alright. After all, Muslim women are fighting for the implementation of appropriate dress code, not against nudists. But for now, this alternative option I just proposed is the best for now - exercising Nun dress code alike. After all, they are inspiration from our beloved God-Fearing Mother of Jesus (PBUH).

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KKhan said:
It is discrimination alright. After all, Muslim women are fighting for the implementation of appropriate dress code, not against nudists. But for now, this alternative option I just proposed is the best for now - exercising Nun dress code alike. After all, they are inspiration from our beloved God-Fearing Mother of Jesus (PBUH).

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Different topics.

Allowing people to go topless is in equal measure,all religion people can use this so no discrimination.

France banned religious symbols display in schools (again all religions),but Muslim woman want separate rule is against this law.If they don't like a country law better to move somewhere else.
 
Thivagar said:
If women don't want to cover themselves, then they don't have to. If they don't want to follow their religion then they don't have to. Men nitpick religious "laws" that suits them and exercise those laws while completely avoiding the rest. No one follows Islamic laws 100%, but people seem to have issues when people don't follow few laws.
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Muslim women are happy following Islam, as Islam gives them more rights than any other religion in the world.
 
Bakasura said:
Different topics.

Allowing people to go topless is in equal measure,all religion people can use this so no discrimination.

France banned religious symbols display in schools (again all religions),but Muslim woman want separate rule is against this law.If they don't like a country law better to move somewhere else.
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Pretty nonsensical. Why would muslim women like to go topless ? They have some morals and dignity, unlike some of these western women who have given up any sense of decency.
 
Bakasura said:
Different topics.

Allowing people to go topless is in equal measure,all religion people can use this so no discrimination.

France banned religious symbols display in schools (again all religions),but Muslim woman want separate rule is against this law.If they don't like a country law better to move somewhere else.
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Asking for the rights to wear is not Muslims only unless you are typing naked.

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People shouldn't be allowed to cover their heads in public institutions for security reasons.

If the owners of a private venue wish to do the same they should be allowed to.
 
Texaco said:
As I said, western world may have left it's morals long back, it doesn't mean Muslims also need to follow that style. Islam clearly mentions women to dress properly, hiding their body from the non-maharam male gaze.

Before anyone pounces on me, it also orders men to lower their gaze if inadvertently any woman's body is exposed.
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So feel free to not live in the Western World then
 
Third_Umpire said:
I have no doubt it is not acceptable in Islam. My point rather, is that it does not matter what is or isn't acceptable in Islam. Not everyone is Muslim, and not everyone is obligated to cater to the preferences of Muslims.

If Muslims don't like a certain thing, they can avoid it. That is life.
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If we allow this, then tomorrow you will say, even cartoons of Prophet Mohammad (SOAB) should also be allowed.. where it will all stop ? Freedom should have a limit.
 
Texaco said:
Why don't you ask these women to have some morals and dress decently like Muslim women have ?
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Because I don't care.

What France does is the responsibility of the French and anyone in France should respect French laws.
 
Convict said:
Because I don't care.

What France does is the responsibility of the French and anyone in France should respect French laws.
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Still, it doesn't give them any right to infringe on Muslim women's right. It's not acceptable to us.
 
KKhan said:
Asking for the rights to wear is not Muslims only unless you are typing naked.

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They can ask but state have the right to reject when they are banning other religious symbols as well.As this not a discriminatory rule only option is for them to go somewhere else and practice what they want.
 
Convict said:
Because I don't care.

What France does is the responsibility of the French and anyone in France should respect French laws.
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If people were submissive, there would be no revolution in France. Fighting for the rights. The day people will stop fighting for the basic rights, that will be end of it.

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Texaco said:
Still, it doesn't give them any right to infringe on Muslim women's right. It's not acceptable to us.
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Actually it does.

If nobody is allowed to wear religious clothing in any public places than why should Muslims be exempt - especially since France isn't a Muslim country so obviously has no obligation to care.
 
Texaco said:
Pretty nonsensical. Why would muslim women like to go topless ? They have some morals and dignity, unlike some of these western women who have given up any sense of decency.
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Their wish who are we to stop them.Recently. A Pakistani model said she will strip if Pakistan win cricket match ,it's her wish to do what ever with her dress.
 
KKhan said:
If people were submissive, there would be no revolution in France. Fighting for the rights. The day people will stop fighting for the basic rights, that will be end of it.

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Why immigrate to a country if you want to change its laws?
 
KKhan said:
If people were submissive, there would be no revolution in France. Fighting for the rights. The day people will stop fighting for the basic rights, that will be end of it.

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Very well said brother. Is there any peaceful protest which can be organized to discuss this issue with French Govt. ?
 
Bakasura said:
They can ask but state have the right to reject when they are banning other religious symbols as well.As this not a discriminatory rule only option is for them to go somewhere else and practice what they want.
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If they wanna stay in France, they have to be nudists?

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KKhan said:
If they wanna stay in France, they have to be nudists?

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You are just deviating from every debate and posting randomly.Can you show a source where French law says Muslim woman need to be nudist to stay in France?
 
KKhan said:
If they wanna stay in France, they have to be nudists?

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Nope. But according to French law they have to accept that it is legal for people to walk around topless in public.
 
Convict said:
Why immigrate to a country if you want to change its laws?
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I think you missed the point. If people were submissive, would there be revolution that changed France for better?

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Convict said:
Actually it does.

If nobody is allowed to wear religious clothing in any public places than why should Muslims be exempt - especially since France isn't a Muslim country so obviously has no obligation to care.
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Please understand brother.

Islam is not a country specific religion. It's the way of life suggested for the entire humanity, and restricting France out of it would, in the long run be detrimental to France itself.

It's not an issue of fight. Peacefully it should be resolved.
 
Texaco said:
Very well said brother. Is there any peaceful protest which can be organized to discuss this issue with French Govt. ?
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Do you live in France?

Why should your wishes be above actual French people?
 
Texaco said:
Please understand brother.

Islam is not a country specific religion. It's the way of life suggested for the entire humanity, and restricting France out of it would, in the long run be detrimental to France itself.

It's not an issue of fight. Peacefully it should be resolved.
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And if the French want to choose that, that is their own choice.

France is a secular nation with a thin pretense (due to historical reasons) of being a Catholic nation.
 
KKhan said:
I think you missed the point. If people were submissive, would there be revolution that changed France for better?

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The revolution making France better is highly debatable but I digress.

In any case a minority should not enforce their will in the majority.
 
KKhan said:
So naturally they have to be nudists.

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If you adhere to a rather strange definition of nudist which is completely at odds with any accepted definition of nudist.
 
Convict said:
And if the French want to choose that, that is their own choice.

France is a secular nation with a thin pretense (due to historical reasons) of being a Catholic nation.
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Truth (as told by Allah almighty's angel to Prophet Mohammad (SOAB) ) is not restricted to any country. France people should also be told the truth, as they are currently strayed down the wrong path of immorality and indecency.

I am surprised people don't see the obvious moral issue here and support indecent women.
 
Convict said:
The revolution making France better is highly debatable but I digress.

In any case a minority should not enforce their will in the majority.
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It is not minority rights. We are talking about people having rights not to be nudists. Pre-revolution, it makes sense to follow the laws but today France after revolution grant people rights to fight for their rights.

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Texaco said:
If we allow this, then tomorrow you will say, even cartoons of Prophet Mohammad (SOAB) should also be allowed.. where it will all stop ? Freedom should have a limit.
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Regardless of what I say, cartoons of anyone are allowed and will continue to be allowed. And honestly, if cartoons is what you fear or consider worth spending your time and energy on, then you may want to revisit your priorities. There is so much more to spend energy on in the Muslim world, than some cartoon some no-name draws.
 
Convict said:
In any case a minority should not enforce their will in the majority.
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This is wrong. This is the sole excuse places like India, and other countries where Muslims are victims of, just because they are minority.

Why can't we allow muslim minority the right to live?
 
Texaco said:
This is wrong. This is the sole excuse places like India, and other countries where Muslims are victims of, just because they are minority.

Why can't we allow muslim minority the right to live?
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Don't go to a government funded school. Problem solved
 
Bakasura said:
You still didn't shown a source where it says Muslim woman need to be nudist to stay in France.
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Do you need a dictionary to differentiate between nudists and people with clothes on?

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Third_Umpire said:
Regardless of what I say, cartoons of anyone are allowed and will continue to be allowed. And honestly, if cartoons is what you fear or consider worth spending your time and energy on, then you may want to revisit your priorities. There is so much more to spend energy on in the Muslim world, than some cartoon some no-name draws.
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Cartoons is not what we fear, but ridiculing and insulting our beloved prophet Mohammad (SOAB) is not acceptable to any muslim.
 
Texaco said:
This is not the solution. Islam encourages women to study. Why they should not go to school ?
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Go to a non Government funded school.

Problem solved

Or better still. Leave France.
 
Texaco said:
Cartoons is not what we fear, but ridiculing and insulting our beloved prophet Mohammad (SOAB) is not acceptable to any muslim.
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And so, you should peacefully express your disapproval the next time it happens, if you so wish.
 
Texaco said:
Truth (as told by Allah almighty's angel to Prophet Mohammad (SOAB) ) is not restricted to any country. France people should also be told the truth, as they are currently strayed down the wrong path of immorality and indecency.

I am surprised people don't see the obvious moral issue here and support indecent women.
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Their country their rules bro.

I maintain that Western countries should not dictate how others live their lives and others should not dictate how Western countries live their lives.

Even in Islam when you live in a foreign non-muslim country you have to follow their laws.
 
blackanhyellow said:
Their country their rules bro.

I maintain that Western countries should not dictate how others live their lives and others should not dictate how Western countries live their lives.

Even in Islam when you live in a foreign non-muslim country you have to follow their laws.
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But as Muslims, it's incumbent upon us to show the disbelievers the error of their ways at least once. To educate them about the truth is the ultimate duty of a Muslim.
 
Texaco said:
Truth (as told by Allah almighty's angel to Prophet Mohammad (SOAB) ) is not restricted to any country. France people should also be told the truth, as they are currently strayed down the wrong path of immorality and indecency.

I am surprised people don't see the obvious moral issue here and support indecent women.
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Who are you to decide that French women are currently straying down the wrong path of immorality and indecency.

Who are you to impose your moral standing on others, no person has the right to impose their religious or moral beliefs onto others. It is Islam that has the wrong morals, it imposes strict moral laws onto people for no reason. There is no moral reason why a woman has to cover her body, the moral problem is with others who cannot control themselves.
 
Texaco said:
This is not the solution. Islam encourages women to study. Why they should not go to school ?
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Well technically Islam prohibits mixing of two genders. Since most French schools are probably mixed gender schools wouldn't that make going to school prohibited?

I am Muslim btw, but you sound really preachy. Learn to understand that there are more than just your own point of view.

Imagine some people immigrated to Pakistan and said we want to wear mini skirts to school. Obviously the Pakistani government will ban that.

Similarly when muslim immigrants are going to these foreign countries and imposing their cultural attire the people there are becoming xenophobic.

Learn to see both sides of the story.

There are other Western countries that still let women wear hijab, move to one of them!

If not, then move back to your home country!
 
blackanhyellow said:
Well technically Islam prohibits mixing of two genders. Since most French schools are probably mixed gender schools wouldn't that make going to school prohibited?

I am Muslim btw, but you sound really preachy. Learn to understand that there are more than just your own point of view.

Imagine some people immigrated to Pakistan and said we want to wear mini skirts to school. Obviously the Pakistani government will ban that.

Similarly when muslim immigrants are going to these foreign countries and imposing their cultural attire the people there are becoming xenophobic.

Learn to see both sides of the story.

There are other Western countries that still let women wear hijab, move to one of them!

If not, then move back to your home country!
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Are you comparing indecent clothes like mini skirts to proper decent clothes like Hijab ? The analogy doesn't suit brother.
 
It is the right of any minority to peacefully protest and use the country's law to combat against any sort of discrimination.

However if in the end the majority of the country's population decides they want to discriminate against the minority, this is in effect democracy.

If we accept democracy as the go to form of governance we must also accept the flaws of democracy.
 
Texaco said:
Very well said brother. Is there any peaceful protest which can be organized to discuss this issue with French Govt. ?
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Yeah. It can be organized as long as protest is peacefully hosted. France after revolution grant you and people to fight for their rights; in this case choosing not to be nudists which is noble cause.

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Texaco said:
Are you comparing indecent clothes like mini skirts to proper decent clothes like Hijab ? The analogy doesn't suit brother.
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Thats because you only see things from a muslims perspective, there is nothing wrong with a mini skirt its just normal dress for some people. You call it indecent but its only indecent if you are looking from muslim eyes. I think its ignorant to call a mini skirt indecent.
 
Texaco said:
Are you comparing indecent clothes like mini skirts to proper decent clothes like Hijab ? The analogy doesn't suit brother.
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What is decent to us Muslims may not be decent to someone else.

What is decent to others may not be decent to us.

Learn to open your mind to the fact that cultures, life styles, and religions are different through out the world.

For example, Hindus probably see saris as the most decent form of clothing, whereas someone in Saudi Arabia might see them as too revealing. Conversely Hindus might see Burkas as oppressive to women.

Its all about where you come from, what your belief systems are. All cultures are different.
 
blackanhyellow said:
It is the right of any minority to peacefully protest and use the country's law to combat against any sort of discrimination.

However if in the end the majority of the country's population decides they want to discriminate against the minority, this is in effect democracy.

If we accept democracy as the go to form of governance we must also accept the flaws of democracy.
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LOL.. you have pretty deformed view of democracy, specially secular one. France needs to protect the rights of Muslims specially since they are a minority.
 
Gilly said:
Who are you to decide that French women are currently straying down the wrong path of immorality and indecency.

Who are you to impose your moral standing on others, no person has the right to impose their religious or moral beliefs onto others. It is Islam that has the wrong morals, it imposes strict moral laws onto people for no reason. There is no moral reason why a woman has to cover her body, the moral problem is with others who cannot control themselves.
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Dear brother,

I am not deciding it. It's the message from Allah almighty which itself asks women to dress modestly and cover their body parts from non-maharam male gaze.

Why are you picking on me instead of opposing those indecent women who are clearly going against the code of conduct Allah (swt) Himself has laid out ?

Please point out what wrong morals Islam has ? It's not correct on your part to blame Islam, without any basis.
 
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blackanhyellow said:
What is decent to us Muslims may not be decent to someone else.

What is decent to others may not be decent to us.

Learn to open your mind to the fact that cultures, life styles, and religions are different through out the world.

For example, Hindus probably see saris as the most decent form of clothing, whereas someone in Saudi Arabia might see them as too revealing. Conversely Hindus might see Burkas as oppressive to women.

Its all about where you come from, what your belief systems are. All cultures are different.
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Dear brother,

The message of Allah (swt) is not restricted to any particular race or culture. It's the message from Allah almighty which itself asks women to dress modestly and cover their body parts from non-maharam male gaze.
 
Texaco said:
Dear brother,

The message of Allah (swt) is not restricted to any particular race or culture. It's the message from Allah almighty which itself asks women to dress modestly and cover their body parts from non-maharam male gaze.
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It's restricted to only you guys.
 
Gilly said:
Thats because you only see things from a muslims perspective, there is nothing wrong with a mini skirt its just normal dress for some people. You call it indecent but its only indecent if you are looking from muslim eyes. I think its ignorant to call a mini skirt indecent.
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Dear brother,

I see things from the perspective of truth. Mini skirt doesn't cover the body parts of women from non-maharam male gaze.

Thank you.
 
Texaco said:
Dear brother,

The message of Allah (swt) is not restricted to any particular race or culture. It's the message from Allah almighty which itself asks women to dress modestly and cover their body parts from non-maharam male gaze.
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Dear brother,

Not everyone is Muslim, so they don't care about this, they only care about their own culture.

What is hard to understand about this?

We follow Islam, because we are Muslim. They don't , because they are not Muslim.

Just because you say Allah's message is for all of humanity does not mean all of humanity will follow it.

Otherwise there would be no concept of hell.

So live and let live! Let others live their life how they want to. If they want to fill their country with naked women let them.

Its not your job to police what other countries are doing or whether they are following any religion.
 
KKhan said:
So naturally they have to be nudists.

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God created us nude.... Show me another animal in nature who wears clothes?

We are born nude in this world. God intended that way.

After only making the sin, the shame of being nude came into place.

So why being nude is a crime?
 
blackanhyellow said:
Dear brother,

Not everyone is Muslim, so they don't care about this, they only care about their own culture.

What is hard to understand about this?

We follow Islam, because we are Muslim. They don't , because they are not Muslim.

Just because you say Allah's message is for all of humanity does not mean all of humanity will follow it.

Otherwise there would be no concept of hell.

So live and let live! Let others live their life how they want to. If they want to fill their country with naked women let them.

Its not your job to police what other countries are doing or whether they are following any religion.
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Dear brother,

I am only requesting for a peaceful spreading of the message of truth. I am not sure what is your problem with that ? I am not advocating force.
 
Texaco said:
Dear brother,

I am only requesting for a peaceful spreading of the message of truth. I am not sure what is your problem with that ? I am not advocating force.
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Truth depends upon the context. What is truth to you, may not be truth to me.

Jews were the chosen ones. But muslims will disagree to it.

But from neutral point of view, they are.
 
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