General Election 2017 - Round 2, November (December?) 2017

[James]

Labour would not be able to form a Grand Coalition at the moment. They did very well in June to make gains, but they still do not have enough seats. They would need another General Election in order to get into government, which they would be strong favourites in at the moment - the Conservatives have become such a shambles that the floating voters would side with Labour and even some stock Tory voters would go Labour / abstain. Even the Old Etonian administration of Gideon and Pig-Poker is starting to look competent in comparison to this bunch.

RE [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]'s point, I think the Tories would actually be better served going for an 'anti-centrist' replacement when Mrs Mop finally falls on her sword. With a Socialist Labour Party in opposition, surely it's far better to have a genuinely right-wing Conservative Party under David or Rees-Mogg so voters are given a clear choice over the country's direction for the next 5 years - none of these PC agreeable navel-gazing moderates need apply.

 

[Yossarian]

He won't have enough MPs unless leading an alliance of the DUP, SNP plus Lib Dems, and they won't side with Brexit Labour.

That's why I wrote "He won't be able to since he would also need the support of the DUP to get a majority, and he won't get that." in the part of my post you've quoted.

 

[Robert]

Britiain Elects says a GE held tomorrow would return Labour 294, Tories 283, SNP 37, LD 14, DUP 10.

In which case... Tories/DUP would have no majority. Mrs May would ask the Lib Dems for help and be refused. The Queen would ask Mr Corbyn to form a government. I doubt that the SNP or Lib Dems would side with Brexit Labour.

Result: paralysis. Constitutional crisis. Would a previous PM be wheeled out to form a caretaker government, as happened in Belgium in 2010?

.....or a unity government of Remainers headed by Sir Vince Cable?

 

[s28]

Britain Elects is run by Blairites and their projections are pointless.

Actual elections show Labour caning the Conservatives and I expect any new General Election see Labour win a big majority.

Corbyn and Momentum are touring 70 odd 'marginals' including the seats of Cabinet members like Boris Johnson and Amber Rudd because they believe they can take those seats.

 

[James]

I think Labour would get at least 325 seats now. The Tories are obviously never popular cos they're the Tories, but they seem to be transcending this at the moment and turning into something of a national joke.

 

[Robert]

I think Labour would get at least 325 seats now. The Tories are obviously never popular cos they're the Tories, but they seem to be transcending this at the moment and turning into something of a national joke.

They are popular among people who vote Tory. They could rally if they drop foolish policies which hurt their own base like the dementia tax. But Brexit is the ultimate poisoned chalice. Outcomes range from bad to really bad. Whatever happens they will get the blame.

 

[James]

It might be safer for Labour to sit in opposition until Brexit, an utterly thankless task, is done and dusted.

 

[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mcdonnell confirms my Long Read story: shad Chancellor - Asset managers/investors coming to him for Brexit assurance arent getting from Govt</p>— Faisal Islam (@faisalislam) <a href="https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/919483839206100993?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">15 October 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Markhor]

This "no deal" talk is INSANITY. It may be a negotiating tactic but I hope nobody is taking the prospect seriously.

Pete North, the Editor of Leave HQ, made some critical points online this week. He said with "no deal" we will lose all of our JIT manufacturing and we lose most of our 3rd country trade relationships overnight.

He also said that a two year transitional arrangement is wholly inadequate for the decades of regulatory changes that'd need to be made. A recession or even a depression is not unthinkable with numerous sectors of our economy collpasing.

Brexiteers demanding we "just leave already" seem to have no idea as to the seismic implications of the project we're embarking on.

 

[Bewal Express]

This "no deal" talk is INSANITY. It may be a negotiating tactic but I hope nobody is taking the prospect seriously.

Pete North, the Editor of Leave HQ, made some critical points online this week. He said with "no deal" we will lose all of our JIT manufacturing and we lose most of our 3rd country trade relationships overnight.

He also said that a two year transitional arrangement is wholly inadequate for the decades of regulatory changes that'd need to be made. A recession or even a depression is not unthinkable with numerous sectors of our economy collpasing.

Brexiteers demanding we "just leave already" seem to have no idea as to the seismic implications of the project we're embarking on.

Werent there dire predictions straight after brexit?

 

[Yossarian]

Werent there dire predictions straight after brexit?

Brexit hasn't occurred yet. The eye of Hurricane Brexit's landfall is not until the end of March 2019. Britain has not started feeling the advance squalls as yet and will not do so until about mid-to-late 2018. Britain is currently in the calm before the coming storm Cat 5 Hurricane Brexit.

 

[Robert]

This "no deal" talk is INSANITY. It may be a negotiating tactic but I hope nobody is taking the prospect seriously.

Sir Keir says Labour will vote against Hard Brexit. Good. Clever too, it will win votes.

Not as good as a referendum on the deal, but a baby step in the right direction.

 

[Bewal Express]

Brexit hasn't occurred yet. The eye of Hurricane Brexit's landfall is not until the end of March 2019. Britain has not started feeling the advance squalls as yet and will not do so until about mid-to-late 2018. Britain is currently in the calm before the coming storm Cat 5 Hurricane Brexit.

As i have written before i would have voted to stay but now that the decsion has been made it has to be a Brexit that gives the country control over its laws and migration, otherwise it is all the uncertainty and none of the benefits. As far as the consequences go, there is no doubt It will have an effect but Britain was successful before it joined the EU and it will survive without the EU.

 

[James]

Lots of doom-mongering recently. Thing is Britain is arguably the most influential country in the world's history relative to its (tiny) size. Britain has a resourceful people - post-Brexit it will survive, and succeed, once again.

 

[Robert]

As i have written before i would have voted to stay but now that the decsion has been made it has to be a Brexit that gives the country control over its laws and migration, otherwise it is all the uncertainty and none of the benefits. As far as the consequences go, there is no doubt It will have an effect but Britain was successful before it joined the EU and it will survive without the EU.

It will survive, but at what cost to ordinary working people I wonder?

We were the sick man of Europe before we joined the EEC.

 

[s28]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...lions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/

Britain's missing billions: Revised figures reveal UK is £490bn poorer than previously thought

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
15 OCTOBER 2017 • 9:30PM

Global banks and international bond strategists have been left stunned by revised ONS figures showing that Britain is £490bn poorer than had been *assumed and no longer has any reserve of net foreign assets, depriving the country of its safety margin as Brexit talks reach a crucial juncture.

A massive write-down in the UK balance of payments data shows that Britain’s stock of wealth – the net international investment position – has collapsed from a surplus of £469bn to a net deficit of £22bn. This transforms the outlook for sterling and the gilts markets.

“Half a trillion pounds has gone missing. This is equivalent to 25pc of GDP,” said Mark Capleton, UK rates strategist at Bank of America.

 

[Yossarian]

Lots of doom-mongering recently. Thing is Britain is arguably the most influential country in the world's history relative to its (tiny) size. Britain has a resourceful people - post-Brexit it will survive, and succeed, once again.

The problem is that most Brexiteers in the Tory party studied topics like Politics, Latin and Philosophy, never worked in industry, and thus have no clue whatsoever about logistics, supply chains, modern just-in-time production methods, and all the other practical aspects of a modern industrial economy.

And the few Brexiteers businessmen that do, such as James Dyson, have vested self interests in leaving the EU.

In the case of Dyson, it's the fact that EU health and safety related technical restrictions in the production and sales of high wattage domestic vacuum cleaners prevents him from selling these to UK customers, which he wants to do. Besides, other than the UK, most of his sales are outside the EU, along with his manufacturing facilities. By leaving the EU, he can get his Brexiteer friends to remove these technical restrictions for the UK market.

Hence that's why Brexiteers believe 'everything will be rosy', 'cause they have no understanding of the devastation that Brexit will cause to British industry and therefore the economy generally.

 

[Robert]

The problem is that most Brexiteers in the Tory party studied topics like Politics, Latin and Philosophy, never worked in industry, and thus have no clue whatsoever about logistics, supply chains, modern just-in-time production methods, and all the other practical aspects of a modern industrial economy.

Politics, Philosophy and Economics usually. It's a course at Oxford. Cameron, Boris, Ed Balls, Rees-Mogg all did it.

But I take your point about these guys not having had real jobs. They are professional politicians. The Labour lot are by and large no better - no real work experience, and less education than the Tories. Compare with Cable who was economic advisor to Shell UK.

 

[Yossarian]

Politics, Philosophy and Economics usually. It's a course at Oxford. Cameron, Boris, Ed Balls, Rees-Mogg all did it.

But I take your point about these guys not having had real jobs. They are professional politicians. The Labour lot are by and large no better - no real work experience, and less education than the Tories. Compare with Cable who was economic advisor to Shell UK.

I would add to that the political and economics journalists.

Yesterday, on The Andrew Marr Show, John McDonald was asked very searching questions on financial matters by Andrew Marr. John McDonald was pushed again and again, and rightly so, with Andrew Marr trying to get McDonald into a corner and make a comment which could then be taken out of context and used as a soundbite to sensationalise some policy or other of Labour.

In contrast, when Andrew Marr later interviewed Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, I was shocked how Andrew Marr accepted at face value the blasé answers given by Chris Grayling, on seaports that will require massive lorry parks and other customs infrastructure being built in the next 18 months in order to be ready for a 'no deal hard Brexit', and answers on duty free/customs free trade between Ireland (the EU), Northern Ireland and the rest of Britain. Chris Grayling was simply trotting out the usual "everything will be ok" line, whilst Andrew Marr didn't probe that any further because he also doesn't have a clue what it means in practice.

 

[Robert]

I would add to that the political and economics journalists.

Yesterday, on The Andrew Marr Show, John McDonald was asked very searching questions on financial matters by Andrew Marr. John McDonald was pushed again and again, and rightly so, with Andrew Marr trying to get McDonald into a corner and make a comment which could then be taken out of context and used as a soundbite to sensationalise some policy or other of Labour.

In contrast, when Andrew Marr later interviewed Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, I was shocked how Andrew Marr accepted at face value the blasé answers given by Chris Grayling, on seaports that will require massive lorry parks and other customs infrastructure being built in the next 18 months in order to be ready for a 'no deal hard Brexit', and answers on duty free/customs free trade between Ireland (the EU), Northern Ireland and the rest of Britain. Chris Grayling was simply trotting out the usual "everything will be ok" line, whilst Andrew Marr didn't probe that any further because he also doesn't have a clue what it means in practice.

I expect their bosses are scared of the Corporation's charter being taken away.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

There’s no chance of an election in 2017 now, we’ve run out of time. May has weathered the storm and the opposition are still as impotent as they were at the beginning of the year. May was there for the taking however Corbyn and his comrades couldn’t capitalise on the chaos within number 10.

 

[s28]

A rather peculiar and politically illiterate take but then you can lead a donkey to water but you can't make it think

 

[s28]

Even the Tory biased BBC admitting how weak the Government is.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">demand is only going to build-hard to see how govt will be able to resist in end - know several Tories who'll find it imposs to vote against <a href="https://t.co/apFpgG2POg">https://t.co/apFpgG2POg</a></p>— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) <a href="https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/925676240886992896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">1 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[James]

It would only take an "omnishambles" fortnight of bad press bookended by a couple of howlers such as a shocking budget, another awkward Theresa May speech or a bunch of sexual assault allegations in order to trigger another GE. Corbyn was quite off the pace when he came into the leadership role but seems to have learned how to play the game now.

 

[s28]

Michael Fallon the Defence Secretary resigns

So much for 'May weathering the storm'

Just another 40 odd sleazy Tory MPs to go...

 

[James]

Defence Secretary is a big fish. Somebody is on for a fat promotion now - possibly Gove, Grayling or Patel.

 

[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The opposition is basically the government of Britain as of tonight's commons vote - it is forcing executive to act</p>— Paul Mason (@paulmasonnews) <a href="https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/925805047035891717?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">1 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">THE TIMES FRONT PAGE: 'Fallon resigns as new sleaze claims emerge' <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/skypapers?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#skypapers</a> <a href="https://t.co/SefJa0peW3">pic.twitter.com/SefJa0peW3</a></p>— Sky News (@SkyNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/925867031127298048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">1 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[s28]

There’s no chance of an election in 2017 now, we’ve run out of time. May has weathered the storm and the opposition are still as impotent as they were at the beginning of the year. May was there for the taking however Corbyn and his comrades couldn’t capitalise on the chaos within number 10.

lol you were saying ?

As the Tory Cabinet descends into farce...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Leadsom delivered dossier of inappropriate Fallon remarks to Downing St two days ago, according to The Sun <a href="https://t.co/Qkx7zhaLtr">https://t.co/Qkx7zhaLtr</a></p>— Lucy Fisher (@LOS_Fisher) <a href="https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/926209972479938561?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[James]

Experienced Labour MP now suspended and under investigation. This is a cross-party purge and could go on for months.

 

[Robert]

Curious about Fallon ss JHB said there was no problem. Could be more skeletons in his cupboard.

 

[Robert]

Three Council seats go from Con to LD overnight with big swings. LDs resurgent in their traditional South West fortress?

 

[James]

So Priti "not very pretty" Patel has been having secret meetings in Israel for personal benefit. Could be another resignation on the cards here.

 

[irfan]

I see odious Harman/Harperson has been hoisted by her own petard
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...man-to-apologise-for-repeating-holocaust-joke

 

[James]

2 more suspensions tonight, one from each major party.

Can't we just hit the Hard Reset button on British politics and try again from scratch - seriously.

 

[Robert]

2 more suspensions tonight, one from each major party.

Can't we just hit the Hard Reset button on British politics and try again from scratch - seriously.

The last two years have been beyond parody. Just start again with new parties and an elected upper house. No more PMQT, no more shouting.

 

[s28]

The Labour MPs who have been accused have been suspended straight away or accused of minor indiscretions or are fighting back/denying allegations.

The CON MPs all seem to have track records of abusive and serious behaviour and the numbers involved dwarf Labour.

It's not really a Party Political issue though so it will be good when May and Corbyn meet on Monday with regards to establishing some Independent body to investigate complaints.

 

[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is incredibly serious and is a potential resigning matter. <a href="https://t.co/OdQXKFTFAJ">https://t.co/OdQXKFTFAJ</a></p>— Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) <a href="https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/926354025188077568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">3 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[s28]

the mind boggles... how depraved does it have to be that experienced police officers describe it as 'extreme' ?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sunday Times understands specialist cops had to examine "extreme" porn on deputy PM Damian Green's parliamentary computer</p>— Tom Harper (@TomJHarper) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomJHarper/status/926931818066206720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">4 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Robert]

Can't we just hit the Hard Reset button on British politics and try again from scratch - seriously.

Here's a radical idea.

May is trapped - she cannot unite the pro-EU and Brexit headbanger factions in her own party. If she comes back with a deal where we have SM&CU conditions she will face a leadership challenge. So it is steady state until 2022, with Hard Brexit on the way.

Neither can the PLP get out of this trap because their leader is a Brexiteer and commands the rank-and-file.

Solution: a cross-party government to get us through Brexit on favourable terms. Remain Tories and Remain Labour MPs - i.e. ha;lf the former and most of the latter - join in an emergency coalition government. Labourites won;pt accept a Tory PM. Tories won;t accept a Labourite.

Step forward Sir Vince Cable - a man with deep understanding and whom the MPs listen to. He is old enough to have no ambition beyond the next five years. Let Sir Vince steer us through Brexit as Coalition PM, then return to the old right-vs-left politics.

Job done.

 

[s28]

Are you ok?

 

[Robert]

Radical problems need radical solutions....

 

[s28]

There is no constituency for Radicals that is why they only have 6,000 followers on Twitter

https://twitter.com/RadicalsUK

 

[Robert]

There is no constituency for Radicals that is why they only have 6,000 followers on Twitter

https://twitter.com/RadicalsUK

I wasn’t using a proper noun. I mean that we have a problem that looks insoluble given the state of the two major parties and we should try something different to solve it.

 

[s28]

Both main parties got their biggest absolute vote counts in years !

Turnout was up

Just because you don't like Brexit you can't tear the whole thing down.

 

[Markhor]

Hard to keep up with the scandals being revealed in recent weeks, reminds me of John Major's government in the 1990s.

We've had allegations of sexual harassment in Westminster, cabinet divisions, undisclosed foreign visits by ministers and now there's Trouble in Paradise.

This issue disproportionately affects the UK given its Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories are involved. What will be the most troubling for PM May are the allegations around Lord Ashcroft who has been a long-time significant Tory donor. From the BBC:

The structure of a trust involves one entity legally entrusting a second to look after assets for a third, essentially removing ownership for tax purposes.

Wealthy people can legally avoid paying tax on assets that they have given to a trust because they can tell the authorities they no longer own or control the assets in them.

But for a trust to work as a tax break, decisions about its assets have to be taken independently by the trustees. A series of leaked emails between trustees and Lord Ashcroft's advisers suggest he was was willing to ignore the rules.

Despite the warning, Lord Ashcroft appears to have continued to make decisions about the Trust's assets.

 

[s28]

Miqdaad Versi kills it with this savage tweet today

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">UK Cabinet<br>- First Secretary of State (Green) being investigated for extreme porn<br>- Foreign Secretary (Johnson) "gaffe" may cost UK citizen 5 yrs in jail <br>- Defence Secretary (Fallon) resigned<br>- SoS for Int. Devpt (Patel) met Israeli PM without disclosing to FCO & lied about it</p>— Miqdaad Versi (@miqdaad) <a href="https://twitter.com/miqdaad/status/927553206368063488?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">6 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Robert]

Both main parties got their biggest absolute vote counts in years !

Turnout was up

Just because you don't like Brexit you can't tear the whole thing down.

Then it’s Hard Brexit and years more austerity, then Corbyn wins and turns us into a third world state.

 

[s28]

This is tragic and really should see Boris Johnson's career ended

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Boris Johnson gaffe risks five more years in Iran jail for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe <a href="https://t.co/OcUynCP0zc">https://t.co/OcUynCP0zc</a> <a href="https://t.co/dvXNWkw1Ba">pic.twitter.com/dvXNWkw1Ba</a></p>— The Times of London (@thetimes) <a href="https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/927515029678813185?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">6 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[s28]

On Pestminster this is an interesting blog

this girl 'Ava' does not strike me as a naive innocent, most Iranian girls i've known have been sharp elbowed feisty strong women

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017...andal-to-target-pro-brexit-mp-kelvin-hopkins/

 

[s28]

British Government is in complete disarray. A Cabinet meeting planned for today cancelled...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When put like this by <a href="https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@POLITICOEurope</a> can start to understand why there is no Cabinet meeting this morning... (via <a href="https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PaulBrandITV</a>) <a href="https://t.co/VGsqFWLR7j">pic.twitter.com/VGsqFWLR7j</a></p>— Faisal Islam (@faisalislam) <a href="https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/927833648447049728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">7 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[s28]

Pestminster has another victim

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Former Welsh govt. minister Carl Sargeant has died following allegations over his personal conduct. <a href="https://t.co/VOjIPMmbNY">https://t.co/VOjIPMmbNY</a></p>— Moments UK & Ireland (@UKMoments) <a href="https://twitter.com/UKMoments/status/927887240604344321?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">7 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[James]

Wow.

Apparently it was a suicide.

Horrendous.

 

[Robert]

Oh ye gods.

Poor man. His poor wife and kids.

 

[James]

Imagine if he is found "not guilty" as well.

 

[Robert]

Let’s see if Patel survives the day in post. It would be interesting if a brown lady is sacked and a white male posho stays on, but Boris is probably unsackable.

So the Zombie Cabinet staggers on.....

 

[s28]

The 'victims' must be feeling terrible. Corbyn got it right in saying everybody needed to be given appropriate pastoral care. He also made a point in his earlier letter to Theresa May of pointing out role Trade Unions can play in supporting workers in workplace environments. I would certainly urge all workers now to join and contribute to any Trade Union or Professional body that can redress the power imbalance between workers and employers through collective action.

 

[Robert]

Never been a union member, never felt the need. Every employer I ever had treated me fairly. Unions in the UK have often been far-left wreckers backed financially by the Soviets and other competing powers.

The Scandis and Germans seem to get it right, with union reps sitting on the top management teams. We should copy them.

 

[s28]

Arrant nonsense. If it had not been for the Labour Movement this Country would be a hellhole like the US with no NHS and limited workers rights.

 

[James]

I have always been a member of the official union at my workplace, politically I am certainly no ardent trade unionist, however my union are generally collaborative with the business and get a lot of good work done on behalf of colleagues, end of year pay rises and redeployments due to redundancy / ill health etc. I have had my monthly direct debit for a long time now and never made any use of my membership, however I believe in supporting the continuing existence of the unions because they keep the giant corporations more honest.

 

[s28]

One of my friends was a teacher caught up in Gove's Islamophobic Trojan Horse plot. He regretted not having Union membership and support. The Head of NUT Union Kevin Courtney has been brilliant advocate for his members.

 

[Big Mac]

Lots of doom-mongering recently. Thing is Britain is arguably the most influential country in the world's history relative to its (tiny) size. Britain has a resourceful people - post-Brexit it will survive, and succeed, once again.

Yes, we can survive thanks to our stiff upper lip and bulldog spirit. Which is why we have been getting repeatedly slapped down in talks with the EU over Brexit.

There's rhetoric and there's reality. Don't get the two confused.

 

[Robert]

Arrant nonsense. If it had not been for the Labour Movement this Country would be a hellhole like the US with no NHS and limited workers rights.

We are talking about the unions, not the Labour Party. I am not denying their historic contribution, but their job was done by the 1960s. After that their adversarial attitude in the 1970s brought down a democratically elected government, wrecked the car industry and caused the port of London to collapse by resisting the move to containerisation. There is a reason why the working class turned to Thatcher in 1979 but the left still cannot accept it.

 

[s28]

Funny Thatcher and her children (Blair) gave us Brexit, GFC, Austerity and you can't seem to accept the answer to that is a move left

 

[James]

One of my friends was a teacher caught up in Gove's Islamophobic Trojan Horse plot. He regretted not having Union membership and support. The Head of NUT Union Kevin Courtney has been brilliant advocate for his members.

Unions are not just an exclusive darling of the Left either. Some people on the Right, such as Peter Hitchens of all people, support the concept of unionism as well because it is there to back up the plight of the common man.

 

[Robert]

Funny Thatcher and her children (Blair) gave us Brexit, GFC, Austerity and you can't seem to accept the answer to that is a move left

Thatcher and Blair were ardent Europhiles. Brexit was brought about by neofascists in the press and Leave.EU. Austerity was inevitable - Brown and Darling would have enacted it too - but there should also have been tax rises to offset the public sector cuts.

I want a move left, I've not voted Tory in decades. But I want it led by people I consider competent.

 

[Markhor]

And now Brexit negotiations, already moving at a glacial pace, are set to resume.

Combine that with ministerial scandals, public services in meltdown, housing shortages and stagnating incomes - these are issues hard enough to deal with for a government with a comfortable majority let alone for a weakened PM without one.

 

[Yossarian]

And now Brexit negotiations, already moving at a glacial pace, are set to resume.

Combine that with ministerial scandals, public services in meltdown, housing shortages and stagnating incomes - these are issues hard enough to deal with for a government with a comfortable majority let alone for a weakened PM without one.

And of course Brexit has nothing to do with any of this. Brexit is already a success.

The Cabinet jobs are being shared out, everyone's getting a chance to be a Cabinet Minister for a month or two. Will look good on a cv, getting highly paid directorships and then being able to say "see Brexit is good for you, it's not done me any harm. Look how everyone want my name on their list of board members, so they can say a former Cabinet Minister is on their board"

 

[Yossarian]

Boris Johnson will be fired this week.

That is unless the new partnership of Boris and Michael Gove (yes the same Michael Gove who shafted Boris in the back 15 minutes before Boris was going to announce his leadership bid after Cameron stepped down. Apparently they've made up now and are buddies again) manages to get Theresa May kicked out first.

 

[s28]

I LOVE this video...

Lucy Powell the awful 2015 'Election strategist' and Stephen Kinnock the awful son of awful windbag Neil Kinnock look devastated as Corbyn proves them wrong on June 8th 2017 at 22:00 as the exit polls came out...

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Labour MPs Lucy Powell, Ruth Cadbury and Stephen Kinnock, who had been calling for Mr Corbyn to resign, as they'll be seen on BBC2 Mon 9pm <a href="https://t.co/yiYuHo3fvq">pic.twitter.com/yiYuHo3fvq</a></p>— BBC Daily Politics and Sunday Politics (@daily_politics) <a href="https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/932589941766332416?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">20 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[s28]

this is even better

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">the sad and tragic ballad of stephen kinnock <a href="https://t.co/doZ4HAoUml">pic.twitter.com/doZ4HAoUml</a></p>— Reel Politik podcast (@reel_politcast) <a href="https://twitter.com/reel_politcast/status/932640975989694464?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">20 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Robert]

I LOVE this video...

Lucy Powell the awful 2015 'Election strategist' and Stephen Kinnock the awful son of awful windbag Neil Kinnock look devastated as Corbyn proves them wrong on June 8th 2017 at 22:00 as the exit polls came out...

I was a big fan of Neil. Voted for him in 1987 and 1992. He took Labour from the apocalypse of 1983 and brought it to the point of electability. Sadly he was a bit short of PM material.

If only dear old John Smith had lived. He was far more capable and would have defeated Major in 1997. Smith was the best PM we never had.

 

[s28]

The apocalypse of 1983 as you put it was solely caused by war jingoism rescuing Thatcher's disastrous economic policy and the SDP splitters splitting Labour vote

Which is why all the 'pundits' and 'experts' got this years election result so wrong

 

[Robert]

The apocalypse of 1983 as you put it was solely caused by war jingoism rescuing Thatcher's disastrous economic policy and the SDP splitters splitting Labour vote

Don’t forget the birth of Prince William.

But remember what Gerald Kaufman said about the 1983 manifesto - “the longest suicide note in history”, - unilateral disarmament, leave the EEC, renationalise the recently privatised utilities. And Labour had seen fit to elect Michael Foot. He was a brilliant orator but made elementary errors like turning up at the Cenotaph in an old donkey jacket which he probably wore in the Spanish Civil War. But for those things the Gang of Four wouldn't have split.

So not solely what you posted.

Yet Thatcher got another landslide in 1987 despite her disastrous policies.

 

[Yossarian]

Don’t forget the birth of Prince William.

But remember what Gerald Kaufman said about the 1983 manifesto - “the longest suicide note in history”, - unilateral disarmament, leave the EEC, renationalise the recently privatised utilities. And Labour had seen fit to elect Michael Foot. He was a brilliant orator but made elementary errors like turning up at the Cenotaph in an old donkey jacket which he probably wore in the Spanish Civil War. But for those things the Gang of Four wouldn't have split.

So not solely what you posted.

Yet Thatcher got another landslide in 1987 despite her disastrous policies.

"It's the Sun that won it"

Far truer than most think. Tory or Labour, get Murdoch and his press on your side and you win (like Blair did), Else you lose. It's been simple as that for the last 30 to 40 year. But the internet and social media is about to change all that.

 

[s28]

Would be interesting to see stats on Sun circulation 1983 vs today.

It does explain a lot

 

[Robert]

"It's the Sun that won it"

Far truer than most think. Tory or Labour, get Murdoch and his press on your side and you win (like Blair did), Else you lose. It's been simple as that for the last 30 to 40 year. But the internet and social media is about to change all that.

And not before time. It will be interesting to see if The Sun becomes a Labour paper again. It has always blown with the wind.

 

[the Great Khan]

the worst out of the four was undoubtedly Sarah Champion. Kinnock and powell we knew were stabbers. But Sarah is the snake in the grass. The closet racist who believes she isnt. Dangerous individuals like her should be nowhere near the labour party.

 

[Robert]

Champion’s remarks were incendiary and unacceptable. But there are plenty of racists in the Labour Party, despite the Chakrabarti report.

 

[Markhor]

The OBR have immediately shot down Philip Hammond's plan to scrap stamp duty for first time buyers of homes under £300k, saying it will push up house prices and only 3,500 more people buying a home than otherwise.

Hammond's claim to be spending £44bn on housing was also criticised as it emerged the actual new money was £15bn and not a single new house would be built as a consequence of the announcement.