General Zia-ul-Haq: Why is he often detested by a lot of Pakistanis?

[Hitman]

I was fascinated by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto for a good few years. I read all I could of him online, watched videos related to him on youtube, even created a thread here asking Pakistani posters about their views on the man, and now have a pretty good understanding regarding his history.

Another complex man that has fascinated me is none other than Gen Zia Ul Haq. While I do know about his history, what I fail to understand is why a lot of educated Pakistanis have an intense dislike for him.

I’m not here to contribute to the topic because I have very little idea about it. What I want to know from our Pakistani friends is why exactly is he disliked by so many of their countrymen.

It would be very nice if my Pakistani friends would educate me on the topic.

Thanks.

 

[moghul]

There two men, ZAB and Gen Zia have been the worst things happened to Pakistan. One was involved in breaking down Pakistan and other made Pakistan so weak internally, we have not recovered from it , yet.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Short Bullet points on how many Pakistanis that dislike him remember Zia's legacy:

- Military coup, ousted a democratic government
- Bhutto was executed in what was a farce trial.
- Implemented policies that plague Pakistan to this day (i.e. extremism, etc...)
- Brought Nawaz Sharif into power

That being said, not all of his policies were bad. He reversed a lot of Bhutto's socialist economic policies, which saw Pakistan having the fastest growth rate in its history.

 

[Major]

ALot of the social problems that exist today in our society is because of him.

See when you bring in policies, they are easily reversible, but when you user religion to bring in policies, then in a country like Pakistan you cant reverse them.

The hudood ordinance, zina ordinance are examples

he created alot of problem for women with his zina ordinance.

He promoted sectarianism aswell. He used to back the deobandis the same deobandis who were agianst the formation of Pakistan

Then he created those Tax laws for shia and sunni that created more problem.

Then there were few anti Shia leaders who openly spoke agianst Shias during the sensitive months of Muhaarram and Zia had told the police officials not to arrest him.

And to top that all, he got an innocent man hanged based on a very old FIR for which the guy wasnt even found guilty of even after trying to make a case agianst him proceeding with it accoriding to the dates of retirement of the judges and all.

He was a fitna, and his germs still exist in the society. Thats why he is the most hated Pakistani by the educated Pakistanis.

 

[WebGuru]

Zulfi Bhutto and Zia I will never forgive them both for screwing the nation to further their own agendas one was a dictator with uniform and the other one was a dictator without uniform.

 

[Couch Cricketer]

ALot of the social problems that exist today in our society is because of him.

See when you bring in policies, they are easily reversible, but when you user religion to bring in policies, then in a country like Pakistan you cant reverse them.

The hudood ordinance, zina ordinance are examples

he created alot of problem for women with his zina ordinance.

He promoted sectarianism aswell. He used to back the deobandis the same deobandis who were agianst the formation of Pakistan

Then he created those Tax laws for shia and sunni that created more problem.

Then there were few anti Shia leaders who openly spoke agianst Shias during the sensitive months of Muhaarram and Zia had told the police officials not to arrest him.

And to top that all, he got an innocent man hanged based on a very old FIR for which the guy wasnt even found guilty of even after trying to make a case agianst him proceeding with it accoriding to the dates of retirement of the judges and all.

He was a fitna, and his germs still exist in the society. Thats why he is the most hated Pakistani by the educated Pakistanis.

Bhutto might have been Innocent for the crime he was hanged for but he was not innocent in any sense of that word.

 

[moghul]

Bhutto's crime continued long after his death in the shape of Bilawal and Zardari.

 

[Couch Cricketer]

Bhutto's crime continued long after his death in the shape of Bilawal and Zardari.

I have always believed his son died so that a Zardari could take over his name and party

 

[Syed1]

Zulfiqar Bhutto and Zia-ul Haq were the worst things to happen to Pakistan.


I'm glad both suffered unnatural deaths. May they burn in hell inshallah

 

[moghul]

Zulfiqar Bhutto and Zia-ul Haq were the worst things to happen to Pakistan.


I'm glad both suffered unnatural deaths. May they burn in hell inshallah

Amen.

 

[Markhor]

Gen Zia may have died 31 years ago but his poisonous legacy lives on.

Zia fanaticised a population to produce the footsoldiers for America's proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan. He carried on from Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in allowing the religious right unfettered access to the media and education system, allowing thousands of unregistered madrassas to spring up which formed the ideological basis for many militant groups in Pakistan which now the State are trying to neuter.

The end of the Afghan war created chaos on the border with the heroin and illegal weapons trade growing out of control, and saw an influx of millions of Afghan refugees which is another aspect of Zia's legacy the State is only today managing to get to grips with. Zia gratefully accepted Reagan's dollars but did nothing to mitigate the effects of the war on his own people. Also before Zia, sectarianism was unheard of but Shia-Sunni division broke out into armed conflict.

Time and again one sees Zia's callous disregard for his own peoples' lives. Ojri Camp is an example. The story goes there was a leakage in the supply of weapons to Afghanistan. American arms intended for the Afghan fighters were sold to Iran who was fighting Iraq at the time. This leakage occurred in Rawalpindi and to hide this theft, the place was blown up and killed so many lives in the city. Newsweek did an article on the tragedy and put the blame of theft and murder squarely on the ruling powers.

Zia's fake Islamisation was to give this usurper political legitimacy. It meant women descended to lower than vermin in the food chain. The Zina Ordinance resulted in one case where a blind 13 year old gang rape victim was tried for adultery whilst the criminals walked away scot-free. He hardened the blasphemy laws which created a lynch mob culture against minorities and has been repeatedly abused by those acting out personal vendettas. Between 1927-1985 about 10 cases of blasphemy were reportedly heard in court. Since then more than 4,000 cases have been handled.

Textbooks were changed beyond recognition. Jinnah's secular outlook was scrubbed and was turned into a clean shaven mullah. Zia's notion of Islam was reduced to a series of rituals and punishments. People aren't born with intolerance and bigotry in their heart. It is acquired through your upbringing and education, and Bhutto and Zia's education "reforms" produced a generation of bigots allowing discrimination against minorities and Ahmedis to surge despite the very foundation of Pakistan's creation was to SAFEGUARD a minority.

Pakistan has a dodgy plane crash in Bahawalpur to thank for that era of darkness lasting no more than 11 years. All that was left in the smouldering wreck was his teeth - some would say that's divine justice.

 

[Hitman]

Wow, have learnt a lot of new things. Googled a lot of things that has been mentioned by our Pakistani brothers.

And this is the person that a certain Zaid Hamid considers his hero, and defends him to the hilt.

 

[Badsha]

Wow, have learnt a lot of new things. Googled a lot of things that has been mentioned by our Pakistani brothers.

And this is the person that a certain Zaid Hamid considers his hero, and defends him to the hilt.

Zia blew up ogiri camp killing people of of Pakistan. This guy was evil to the core

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

The tragedy is that Bhutto was not convicted for the crimes he did commit but for the crimes he did NOT. Similarly, Zia should've been held answerable to the people of Pakistan through proper channels instead of just being blown up. Both these incidents have made martyrs out of scumbags.

 

[Major]

Wow, have learnt a lot of new things. Googled a lot of things that has been mentioned by our Pakistani brothers.

And this is the person that a certain Zaid Hamid considers his hero, and defends him to the hilt.

if you are interested in how he died, read "a case of exploding mangoes"

 

[Major]

Zulfiqar Bhutto and Zia-ul Haq were the worst things to happen to Pakistan.


I'm glad both suffered unnatural deaths. May they burn in hell inshallah

may what you have said be bestowed to the current PM aswell

 

[Major]

Zia blew up ogiri camp killing people of of Pakistan. This guy was evil to the core

Ojrii camp!!!
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] you should read up on that too.

WE live in Rawalpindi and my mother and other familiy members often tell us how Missiles were flying in the air that day and how many people died.

 

[Nostalgic]

Regarding Ojri camp, this was where the much-vaunted Stinger shoulder-mounted missiles were stored. These had been instrumental in turning the tide against the Soviets from 1986 or so. Prior to this, things were at a stalemate: the Soviets and the Afghan communists held the cities comfortably enough and had ceded the countryside to the resistance. Once the stingers were introduced, things changed, and rapidly.

By 1988, it was clear that the Soviet were about to retreat back across the border. It was then that the Americans finally decided to perform an audit of the stingers, among other weaponery, and this was when that the depot at Ojri camp conveniently caught fire, removing all evidence of any shenanigans.

Those stingers rained down on the twin cities for days, resulting in over a thousand deaths. Being from the twin cities but living abroad, I have heard several accounts of this event from relatives. They thought either the Indians or the Soviets (or even the Israelis) had attacked, and there was panic everywhere. People were left stranded everywhere, and particularly vulnerable were the women: not every stranger approached for help turned out to be an angel.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Most people see him in the role against Soviets. What they dont understand is he had no choice but to help the Afghans to defeat the Soviets. If the Soviets took permanent unchallenged control of Afghanistan, India would have started bombings off in Pakistan 20 years earlier than they did.

Because of Zia Pakistan have the F16s and this was to defend its nuclear facilities.

It doesn't really matter what kind of a man he was, Pakistans economy grew and so did it's armed forces. Some very stupid people blaming the security situation of the late 2000's on a man who has been dead for many years.

His other policies may have been rubbish but in terms of military strength no other leader has done so much.

 

[Muhammad10]

may what you have said be bestowed to the current PM aswell

Relax, Bhutto was the one who said "suwar ke bache, jahannam me jao" (translation: children of pigs, go to hell) to Bangladeshis. How incredibly filthy of him. Terrible insult to Imran to compare him to the founder of the Jiyala royal family cult.

 

[Syed1]

may what you have said be bestowed to the current PM aswell

Imran didn't kill people or set our nation on a path to destruction. Baqi only Allah decides who goes to Hell or not. However, as Muhammad above mentioned Bhutto said "dash dash dash jahunnum mein jao". Maybe he was prophesizing about himself and his family.

 

[Nostalgic]

Regarding Zia’s role in Afghanistan and whether Pakistan was destined to be drawn into the conflict during the Soviet presence, a couple of pertinent points:

The communist regime in Afghanistan came to power after overthrowing Sardar Daud Khan in April 1977. The Soviet invasion took place in December 1979. During these two and a half years, we had already started arming the resistance at the behest of certain other countires. The Afghan communists had been requesting the Soviets to intervene, which they only did two and a half years later, after Noor Muhammad Taraki had been deposed and his successor Hafizullah Amin had started making overtures to the US, Pakistan and other countries in the eventual anti-Soviet alliance. A case can be made that Afghanistan would have remained a communist government without the Soviets ever invading directly, if they had been left to themselves without provocation. Having said that, my opinion is that would’ve been unlikely, since Soviet invasion or not, with us being squarely in the Western camp at that time, conflict was inevitable once the communists were in power and beholden to the Soviets even prior to the invasion. I’ll defer to @KB here, if he chooses to comment.

Another detail is that we had identified the religious element in Afghanistan as a tool to be used against not just the communists but also Daud Khan before them, in ZAB’s time, well before Zia was even CoAS. I believe it was in 1974 that not only Gulbadin Hikmayar but also Ahmed Shah Massoud (before their eventual and inevitable falling out) were brought over to Pakistan for this purpose. Massoud’s first attempted rebellion in the Panjsher valley was against Daud, at our behest, a detail often forgotten given the acrimony between him and us later in the years.

All this said, Zia was able to leverage the invasion to cozy up to the Reagan White House. He did not get along with Carter, had rejected his grudging offer of aid as “peanuts,” but things changed once the Republicans came to power after 1980. Had there been no invasion or a second Carter term, things may have turned out differently for all involved.

It’s fascinsting mulling over the possibilities: what if the Soviets had never invaded? What if Raegan had not been elected? Would the region have turned out differently, and how?

 

[Major]

Regarding Ojri camp, this was where the much-vaunted Stinger shoulder-mounted missiles were stored. These had been instrumental in turning the tide against the Soviets from 1986 or so. Prior to this, things were at a stalemate: the Soviets and the Afghan communists held the cities comfortably enough and had ceded the countryside to the resistance. Once the stingers were introduced, things changed, and rapidly.

By 1988, it was clear that the Soviet were about to retreat back across the border. It was then that the Americans finally decided to perform an audit of the stingers, among other weaponery, and this was when that the depot at Ojri camp conveniently caught fire, removing all evidence of any shenanigans.

Those stingers rained down on the twin cities for days, resulting in over a thousand deaths. Being from the twin cities but living abroad, I have heard several accounts of this event from relatives. They thought either the Indians or the Soviets (or even the Israelis) had attacked, and there was panic everywhere. People were left stranded everywhere, and particularly vulnerable were the women: not every stranger approached for help turned out to be an angel.

I have read charlie wilson's war it was a good read.

Funny how pakistan even ran to the israelis aswell

 

[Major]

Relax, Bhutto was the one who said "suwar ke bache, jahannam me jao" (translation: children of pigs, go to hell) to Bangladeshis. How incredibly filthy of him. Terrible insult to Imran to compare him to the founder of the Jiyala royal family cult.

that comment was posted towards the opposition not the bengalis in that speech in karachi.

and it was used in a political context.

 

[whyamir]

may what you have said be bestowed to the current PM aswell

Noonie in shambles detected.

Hahaha.

Love reading all the ********** comments from the noonie and billo supporters on this board nowadays. Great entertainment. Especially from [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], copy and past king, and a bunch of other members lol.

Anyways, good thread. Learning some new things about this guy.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Zia made Pakistan a nuclear power, enhanced our military power. GDP growth rates were good as well during his reign. Thats all you need to know.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Zia made Pakistan a nuclear power, enhanced our military power. GDP growth rates were good as well during his reign. Thats all you need to know.

Zia took $1.3 billion from IMF in 1980 and it wasn't even a bailout.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Before Zia's era, the highest amount of loan we took from IMF, in a single go, was $0.1 billion dollars.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Before 1980, the sum total of Pakistan's IMF loans was $0.57 billion dollars. After taking $1.3 billion dollars from the IMF, the only time Pakistan surpassed that number was in 2008 when the PPP government took $7.8 billion bailout package from IMF.

 

[Markhor]

Zia made Pakistan a nuclear power, enhanced our military power. GDP growth rates were good as well during his reign. Thats all you need to know.

You mean that's all you know.

If GDP growth rates were the sole measure of success then even Trump is a model of good governance.

The growth was down to the fact we were rolling in it from the Americans and Saudis for fighting their dirty war.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Before Zia's era, the highest amount of loan we took from IMF, in a single go, was $0.1 billion dollars.

Watch this, How General Zia ul Haq Fooled America To Make Nuclear Bomb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkRKlsywPNc

The only reason Pakistan got nukes was because of Zia's shrewdness. He took F16's and other military aid from the US while simultaneously building the bomb. US hated it but couldn't do nothing as it needed Zia as an ally.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Watch this, How General Zia ul Haq Fooled America To Make Nuclear Bomb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkRKlsywPNc

The only reason Pakistan got nukes was because of Zia's shrewdness. He took F16's and other military aid from the US while simultaneously building the bomb. US hated it but couldn't do nothing as it needed Zia as an ally.

He left the country in a lurch of extremism, international sanctions and many other issues.

 

[KingKhanWC]

He left the country in a lurch of extremism, international sanctions and many other issues.

Please list these.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Safia Bibi, was a blind teenaged girl who was raped during Zia's tenure. Under the religious laws introduced by Zia as Hudood ordinances, she was required to identify the people she had accused of raping her. As she was blind and could not do so, she was convicted of fornication and sentenced to be publicly lashed.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Gave us Nawaz Shareef.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

During his tenure, political parties were declared un-Islamic, a position that still hold its relevance among terrorist groups and their sympathizers.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Amended the law so that capital punishment became mandatory in blasphemy related cases.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

His lying created a mistrust within international community, so even now when claim to have lost 70,000 lives in the war on terror they still accuse us to play double game.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Drug abuse became rampant during his tenure.

 

[KingKhanWC]

A lot of nations have such laws but this has nothing to do with any rise in extremism in society which lead to violence against the state or the public at large. UAE has much stronger laws than this.

International sanctions?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

In retrospective, the acquisition of nuclear weapons brought US-led sanctions on Pakistan, albeit during NS's tenure.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

A lot of nations have such laws but this has nothing to do with any rise in extremism in society which lead to violence against the state or the public at large. UAE has much stronger laws than this.

International sanctions?

And many countries with such laws are objectively extremist.

 

[KingKhanWC]

In retrospective, the acquisition of nuclear weapons brought US-led sanctions on Pakistan, albeit during NS's tenure.

Are you suggesting Pakistan shouldn't have nukes?

 

[KingKhanWC]

And many country with such laws are objectively extremist.

This is hyperbole.

 

[moghul]

Bhutto gave us Benazir, Bilawal and Zardari
Zia gave us Nawaz
Both are equal culprit in destroying Pakistan , during their lives and long after they were killed.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Zia’s crackdown on political dissidents and journalists resulted in the arrest of thousands of people. Many of them were incarcerated and tortured in the basements of Lahore Fort because the jails were all spilling over. Public floggings of criminals and political opponents were a routine affair and hangings were often projected widely in the media to scare people into submission.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

This is hyperbole.

No its not. The masterminds of 9/11 came from countries with similarly rigid laws.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

During Zia's tenure, rape and adultery were equated: With rape being considered a ‘form of adultery’.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No its not. The masterminds of 9/11 came from countries with similarly rigid laws.

911 was done by guys who went to strip bars and drank alcohol if you believe the offical narrative. Even the intelligence services stated it was a poltical attack not a religously motived attack.

Someone told you Zia was bad etc and you have fallen for it without trying to understand the situation.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

During and after his tenure, a marked increase in honour based violence was/is noticeable.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

911 was done by guys who went to strip bars and drank alcohol if you believe the offical narrative. Even the intelligence services stated it was a poltical attack not a religously motived attack.

Someone told you Zia was bad etc and you have fallen for it without trying to understand the situation.

And he was not?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

911 was done by guys who went to strip bars and drank alcohol if you believe the offical narrative. Even the intelligence services stated it was a poltical attack not a religously motived attack.

Someone told you Zia was bad etc and you have fallen for it without trying to understand the situation.

.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

I guess, flogging rape victims doesn't make Zia a bad person to some people.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I guess, flogging rape victims doesn't make Zia a bad person to some people.

Blame the judges. Do you really think Zia was involved in every single case or even had the authority to make these laws himself against opposition?

His main role in Pakistan was to strengthen the armed forces to a new high in Pakistani history and he did this.

If it wasnt for Zia, sure you might have lived in a secular society with rum & coke flowing in nightclubs but India would have ruined Pakistan to the core by now.

What he did in terms of making Pakistan a strong miltary nation outweighs these laws by far imo. Your entitled to yous.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Zia's policies emboldened families to kill on the bases of Karo Kari.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Blame the judges. Do you really think Zia was involved in every single case or even had the authority to make these laws himself against opposition?

Are you being purposeful dense?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

FYI the work on nuclear weapons started during Bhutto era and was accomplished during Nawaz Shareef's tenure.

 

[KingKhanWC]

FYI the work on nuclear weapons started during Bhutto era and was accomplished during Nawaz Shareef's tenure.

There is a big difference between starting a job, doing all the work and finishing it. The army didn't allow Nawaz Sharif to have any say in the countries future nuclear weapons programme, this is laughable to suggest he did.

There is not much here for me to continue, dont worry about Zia , todays problems in Pakistan have little to do with a man who has been dead for over 30 years.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

There is a big difference between starting a job, doing all the work and finishing it. The army didn't allow Nawaz Sharif to have any say in the countries future nuclear weapons programme, this is laughable to suggest he did.

There is not much here for me to continue, dont worry about Zia , todays problems in Pakistan have little to do with a man who has been dead for over 30 years.

Zia didn't finish it. Since Zia is dead for 30 years and we tested our first weapons in the late 90's, I'd say your timeline has serious discrepancies.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Here's another consequence of Zia's hardliner policies:
The onus of providing proof of rape rests with the victim under the
Hudood Ordinance and there are severe ramifications if she does not
provide that proof. If she is unable to convince the court, her allegation of
rape is in itself considered as confession of Zina and the victim effectively
implicates herself and is liable to Tazir punishment. Furthermore, the
woman can be categorized as the rapist herself since it is often assumed
that she seduced the man.
There is a reason why women still fear to register cases against their rapists. Those who think that his policies don't have any affect now, are deluding themselves.

 

[szrana]

FYI the work on nuclear weapons started during Bhutto era and was accomplished during Nawaz Shareef's tenure.

Pakistan was a nuclear power for all practical purposes in the late 80's. The US knew this and that is why the applied Pressler Amendment sanctions on Pakistan, once Soviets were defeated and they left Afghanistan. What Nawaz did was nuclear tests in 1998, thereby making Pakistan an overt nuclear power rather than a covert one.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Pakistan was a nuclear power for all practical purposes in the late 80's. The US knew this and that is why the applied Pressler Amendment sanctions on Pakistan, once Soviets were defeated and they left Afghanistan. What Nawaz did was nuclear tests in 1998, thereby making Pakistan an overt nuclear power rather than a covert one.

Here's the difference between being an overt nuclear power and covert nuclear power. Covert nuclear powers, such as North Korea and Iran are always more susceptible to international sanctions. Once you overtly declare yourself as a nuclear power, it brings down the opposing forces like a house of card. You can see the difference between the way Iran and North Korea are treated on economic front and how Pakistan is treated. So what Zia did was making us more susceptible to international sanctions without having the guts to officially announce that we were a nuclear power. Beside being a fundamentalist, he was also a coward who thrived on taking credit from other people's initiative.

 

[gazza619]

I just grew up hearing that Bhutto was trying to sell Pakistan and Zia saved it. Lol

 

[Tapori]

Gen. Zia is without doubt one of the most influential and pivotal figures in world politics if not in the sub-continent, Islam, and Pakistan.

Supported, aided and backed by western intelligence agencies, he was clever in his maneuvering into power and his grip was on Pakistan was firm.
He is fondly remembered by close friends, family, politicians that benefited under his patronage and many religious leaders.

If Pakistan could to be said to have regressed economically under Z. Bhutto, at least he was once democratically elected (Mujibur Rahman irony not withstanding) but it took Zia just a couple of years to destroy any semblance of peace, prosperity, forward-thinking and development socially. He sowed the seeds of strife and pain for years to come and was brutal in that decade to many.

I would be interested to hear from anyone on the best books of his era.

As far as Pakistan's military coups go, it was the worst.

 

[szrana]

Here's the difference between being an overt nuclear power and covert nuclear power. Covert nuclear powers, such as North Korea and Iran are always more susceptible to international sanctions. Once you overtly declare yourself as a nuclear power, it brings down the opposing forces like a house of card. You can see the difference between the way Iran and North Korea are treated on economic front and how Pakistan is treated. So what Zia did was making us more susceptible to international sanctions without having the guts to officially announce that we were a nuclear power. Beside being a fundamentalist, he was also a coward who thrived on taking credit from other people's initiative.

When Pak conducted nuclear tests in 1998, more sanctions were applied on Pak. The only reason Pak conducted nuclear tests in 1998 was to respond to India's tests. And India and Pak both got sanctioned for it.

 

[Tapori]

I'm interested as to what types of people hold this view?
Class, occupation etc?

Pakistan's provincial divisions between Sindh,Punjab, Balochistan etc has never healed.

 

[Technics 1210]

I was in Pakistan the day the news broke out about his plane crash/dead. The nation was in shock, but I was too young to understand politics back then! Suffice to say, everyone was in agreement that his accident was very iffy - aka - an assassination!

 

[Tapori]

I was in Pakistan the day the news broke out about his plane crash/dead. The nation was in shock, but I was too young to understand politics back then! Suffice to say, everyone was in agreement that his accident was very iffy - aka - an assassination!

Hit that for 6
Top post

 

[KingKhanWC]

Zia didn't finish it. Since Zia is dead for 30 years and we tested our first weapons in the late 90's, I'd say your timeline has serious discrepancies.

I was referring to your post suggesting Nawaz finished it. By the time Zia died, it was too late to stop Pakistan getting nukes. I dont think you understand how difficult it would have been for Pakistan to complete it's nuclear weapons programme if it wasn't for Zia. He was very smart in making sure Americans needed Pakistan in desperate measures but even then they wouldn't have allowed nukes but Zia lied to the President of the USA, kept them at bay while the work was being completed. To this day the US and it's Zionist allies are upset they allowed this to happen.

Read the declassifield US files instead of watching some liberal idiot on some Pak news channel.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Blame the judges. Do you really think Zia was involved in every single case or even had the authority to make these laws himself against opposition?

His main role in Pakistan was to strengthen the armed forces to a new high in Pakistani history and he did this.

If it wasnt for Zia, sure you might have lived in a secular society with rum & coke flowing in nightclubs but India would have ruined Pakistan to the core by now.

What he did in terms of making Pakistan a strong miltary nation outweighs these laws by far imo. Your entitled to yous.

The only similar kind of authotarian rule is the last 500 years would have been qutb aibak and the delhi sultanate
I suppose if we can compare benazir to the shah before the revolution
We can compare zia to Iran after the revolution

 

[KingKhanWC]

How Pakistan had the bomb while Zia was alive and how he fooled them in allowing to do so. People can criticise him in his other policies but what he did no leader to this day has come close to doing or while have the courage and intelligence to do so. Its no coincidene Pakistan is the only Muslim majority nation with the nuke. Good luck to any future Muslim nation getting even close to producing their own nuclear weapon, just look at Iran now.

Imo Zia was assasinated as punishment for this but far too late to stop the bomb which was already present.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The only similar kind of authotarian rule is the last 500 years would have been qutb aibak and the delhi sultanate
I suppose if we can compare benazir to the shah before the revolution
We can compare zia to Iran after the revolution

lol. The Ayatollahs of Iran are nothing compared to Zia, he had bottle, intelligence they dont. Iranian revolution was in 79, they dont even have the yield for a nuclear bomb to this day and dont have the courage to even try now.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

lol. The Ayatollahs of Iran are nothing compared to Zia, he had bottle, intelligence they dont. Iranian revolution was in 79, they dont even have the yield for a nuclear bomb to this day and dont have the courage to even try now.

I hope you rate Abdul Kalam khan this much too

 

[KingKhanWC]

I hope you rate Abdul Kalam khan this much too

He's Indian and I dont care about any Indian politician. But no he can't compare to what Zia achieved, not many in history can.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

He's Indian and I dont care about any Indian politician. But no he can't compare to what Zia achieved, not many in history can.

Are we crediting Zia for nawaz too?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Are we crediting Zia for nawaz too?

Please write in detail the relationship between these as you understand it? thanks

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Please write in detail the relationship between these as you understand it? thanks

Pier and mursheed
Guru and apprentice
Heir apparent and king

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pier and mursheed
Guru and apprentice
Heir apparent and king

He cant be his Guru as it wasnt Zia who gave him his first important role in politics.

Zia made a lot of mistakes and had some poor policies but what he did right nobody wants to talk about? Why, because its an achievement which overides any mistakes.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

He cant be his Guru as it wasnt Zia who gave him his first important role in politics.

Zia made a lot of mistakes and had some poor policies but what he did right nobody wants to talk about? Why, because its an achievement which overides any mistakes.

The crux of the matter is you that you only really judge a leader based on the framework they lead for others to follow
It’s all very good riding the wave at the time but how did his policies and reforms affect Pakistan in the long run

Was he indirectly responsible for any of the following

Kargil
The Pakistani taliban
Migration of a lot of skilled scientists and engineers from Pakistan to America
The lack of education for girls in Pakistan
Corruption
Martial law

 

[KingKhanWC]

The crux of the matter is you that you only really judge a leader based on the framework they lead for others to follow
It’s all very good riding the wave at the time but how did his policies and reforms affect Pakistan in the long run

Was he indirectly responsible for any of the following

Kargil
The Pakistani taliban
Migration of a lot of skilled scientists and engineers from Pakistan to America
The lack of education for girls in Pakistan
Corruption
Martial law

No you dont. You judge a leader for his achivements, gains or losses and failures.

He is not responsible for any of those. All laws can be changed or did Zia instill the constituation all laws made under his tenure must not be challenged? lol