Gujarat India - what is the root of the hatred?

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just check post#625 in the below thread

Disrespectful boos heard in Ahmedabad for Babar Azam during the toss for India vs Pakistan ICC World Cup group stage match, 2023

What was waqar said about Hindu is not a 90 thing bro. Ok let's forget all things for a minutes what your opinion about rizwan offered Namaz in the stadium( when match is ongoing ) ?? Give me honest answer I don't think it was illegal or wrong, to be honest. Let me know if it is illegal...

ppforum.pakpassion.net

As I thought, one single supporter being abusive, that too it isn't clear if the supporter is Pakistani or Bharati. More subterfusion and deflection. Obviously in a crowd of thousands a few will be idiots, no one is going to complain on every individual, the problem in Ahmedabad was whole sections of the crowd were chanting abuse so a player can't avoid it. It's comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Technics 1210]

Why are you comparing Nazism with Hindutva? Care to mention the similarities?

One was extreme race based nationalism leading to holocaust and world war. Other is a secular nationalism with inclusive ideology, the kind of which every nation should have.

Nazism and Hindutva share the symbol of Swatsika, and are both right wing ideologies that are concerned with a pure race through violence.

Hindutva hijacked the Swatsika from Hinduism, and then exported it to Nazi Germany.

 

[RexRex]

So you agree that it is the more inclusive version, and only question if it is more confident than hinduism?

I didn't agree with anything .. just wanted to know what you meant by saying it's more inclusive and confident that previous version of hinduism. Simple question.

The term Hindutva, atleast when used on this forum, primarily refers to the muscular hardliner political version of hinduism that BJP practises , eg: Ayodhya mosque being torn down and replaced with temple. Or some posters on here wanting India's constitution to be rewritten and the country be declared a hindu rashtra.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I didn't agree with anything .. just wanted to know what you meant by saying it's more inclusive and confident that previous version of hinduism. Simple question.

The term Hindutva, atleast when used on this forum, primarily refers to the muscular hardliner political version of hinduism that BJP practises , eg: Ayodhya mosque being torn down and replaced with temple. Or some posters on here wanting India's constitution to be rewritten and the country be declared a hindu rashtra.

Masjid-e-janmasthan was decolonization. Constitution is rewritten very often. You think it is set in stone? Even the so called preamble and fundamental rights which are supposed to be immutable, have been mutated in the past. Every community deserves a homeland where their religion and culture is respected and has primacy. Muslims have many Islamic countries, Buddhists have them, Christians have, and even the minority Jews have one. Why shouldn't Hindus have a hindu homeland? Are they sub humans?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Nazism and Hindutva share the symbol of Swatsika, and are both right wing ideologies that are concerned with a pure race through violence.

Hindutva hijacked the Swatsika from Hinduism, and then exported it to Nazi Germany.

Similarity of symbol is not even an argument. By that logic Christians are same as KKK as they use the cross, and Muslims are same as many muslim terrorist groups as they use Islamic symbols. If I use mickey mouse as my insignia and start killing, it doesn't make Disney a terrorist group. Please have a serious discussion.

To go to find the logic, use first principles. Read the ideologies and the actions. Go and see statements by RSS Chief for the last 10 years and come back with the summary of its current ideology.

 

[Technics 1210]

Similarity of symbol is not even an argument. By that logic Christians are same as KKK as they use the cross, and Muslims are same as many muslim terrorist groups as they use Islamic symbols. If I use mickey mouse as my insignia and start killing, it doesn't make Disney a terrorist group. Please have a serious discussion.

To go to find the logic, use first principles. Read the ideologies and the actions. Go and see statements by RSS Chief for the last 10 years and come back with the summary of its current ideology.

You missed the point.

Zionists hijacked the Star of David.
KKK hijacked the Cross.
Muslim terrorist groups hijacked the Star and Cresent.
Hindutva hijacked the Swatsika.

Zionists, KKK, Muslim Terror Groups, and Hindutva, are all right wing terror factions of religion.

You can deny Hindutva and Nazism have no common ground, but you would be in the minority.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So Pakistan receiving a pretty generous reception at Bengaluru - I'm not sure where about in India that is, but the hatred does seem pretty much centred in Modi's home state of Gujarat.

I feel almost proud to be a Brit of Indian heritage, Ahmedabad has given Bharat a poor reputation the rest of the country doesn't deserve.

 

[RexRex]

Every community deserves a homeland where their religion and culture is respected and has primacy. Why shouldn't Hindus have a hindu homeland?

Are u saying as a hindoo living in India, you feel disrepected and unwanted and unable to properly practise your culture/religion despite living in a country of 80% hindus ? That is 800 million hindus

How ? Why ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wait. just read in the cricket forum that today's game is in Bangalore. I thought Bengaluru was a totally different city.

 

[Hassan A]

A man of Pakistani origin who had been living in India as a citizen for 17 years has been arrested by the country’s anti-terrorism squad on espionage charges.

Labhshankar Duryodhan Maheshwari, 53, was arrested for allegedly helping Pakistani agents access an Indian SIM card, which they used to hack the phones of Indian defence personnel’s wards in Army schools, according to Indian media.

While espionage between India and Pakistan has a long history, considering the complex geopolitical relationship between the two countries, Maheshwari’s case stands out because he lived in India for 17 years, obtaining Indian citizenship in 2006.

According to the Indian Express newspaper, Maheshwari arrived at Tarapur town in India’s Gujarat state in 1999 with his wife for “fertility treatment” and stayed on, establishing himself as a successful businessman.

“He applied for a long-term visa, and with the support of his in-laws, he established himself as a successful businessman, running a grocery store and renting out multiple stores and a house in Tarapur,” defence sources told the newspaper.

In 2022, he visited his parents in Pakistan and the agency believes he was “cultivated” by Pakistani agents during the processing of his Pakistani visa, the newspaper reported.

After his return to India, the anti-terror squad [ATS] alleges, he facilitated the delivery of a SIM card registered in the name of a Jamnagar resident, Mohammad Saqlain Umar Tahim, to a Pakistan embassy contact.

His arrest came on the back of specific intelligence from the Military Intelligence (MI) that Pakistani operatives were using an Indian SIM card to target Indian defence personnel.

“An unknown man connected with Ramwani (Maheshwari’s cousin) told Maheshwari that his sister would get her visa, but she would also receive a SIM card in which she needs to activate her WhatsApp and send the OTP (one-time password) to him,” Om Prakash Jat, superintendent of police, ATS, told The Indian Express.

“The man also told Maheshwari that after the visa process is done, and his sister goes to Pakistan, she needs to bring the SIM card with her.”

Maheshwari has been booked for espionage and under sections of the Information Technology Act. He was remanded to seven-day custody, the ATS said.

 

[globetrotter]

Gujarathi peoples are quite and progressive… Indian business mostly run by them and not only in India but around world … 60% motel owners are gujarathis..

Gujarath is a peaceful state, in Godhra after 100s of karasevak were burnt alive by Muslim mob which resulted in Gujarat riots… now some ppls here called them communal but at the same time they are defending Hamas terrorists who abducted 200s Israelis.. what a hypocracy?

 

[Champ_Pal]

You missed the point.

Zionists hijacked the Star of David.
KKK hijacked the Cross.
Muslim terrorist groups hijacked the Star and Cresent.
Hindutva hijacked the Swatsika.

Zionists, KKK, Muslim Terror Groups, and Hindutva, are all right wing terror factions of religion.

You can deny Hindutva and Nazism have no common ground, but you would be in the minority.

Swastika existed in India for more than 300o years. It is held as a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. KKK existed for may be 100 years.
No one believes that Nazism and Hindutva are similar except in some peoples delusional mind.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Gujarathi peoples are quite and progressive… Indian business mostly run by them and not only in India but around world … 60% motel owners are gujarathis..

Gujarath is a peaceful state, in Godhra after 100s of karasevak were burnt alive by Muslim mob which resulted in Gujarat riots… now some ppls here called them communal but at the same time they are defending Hamas terrorists who abducted 200s Israelis.. what a hypocracy?

They might be quiet, but they are not progressive. In the civilised western nations the police and the courts work together to arrest and punish miscreants, they don't allow mobs to run riot and massacre over a thousand innocent civilians.

 

[Anupam]

The general sentiment in India towards Pakistan is not very positive because of the terrorism which is directed towards India from Pakistan. This is the root of all ill will. India usually doesnt have issues with Afghanistan and they are Muslims. So its not a religious thing. States with BJP in power tend to be right winged and hard line with regards to issues concerning national security.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The general sentiment in India towards Pakistan is not very positive because of the terrorism which is directed towards India from Pakistan. This is the root of all ill will. India usually doesnt have issues with Afghanistan and they are Muslims. So its not a religious thing. States with BJP in power tend to be right winged and hard line with regards to issues concerning national security.

If Bharat doesn't have issues with Afghanistan, how are they showing love to an extermist terroist govt which is led by the Taliban?

 

[Hitman]

If Bharat doesn't have issues with Afghanistan, how are they showing love to an extermist terroist govt which is led by the Taliban?

Mumbai attacks is the root. And Afghanistan wasn't behind it.

 

[uppercut]

The term Hindutva, atleast when used on this forum, primarily refers to the muscular hardliner political version of hinduism that BJP practises , eg: Ayodhya mosque being torn down and replaced with temple.

The correct sequence of events as they happened is

Ram temple destoyed
Mosque built over it
Mosque destroyed
Ram temple restored

now you conveniently left out the first 2 events for obvious reasons and this sort of nonsense is the root cause of why muscular hardline hindu activism is taking hold.

 

[happydavy]

The reason is very simple but many people find it hard to understand. Gujarat traditionally was a very welcoming state for all religions for many a centuries. Ibn batuta called it likewise 700 years ago for Surat. Problem happened post independance more specifically from 70s to 90s when Hindu traders and industrialists often faced extortion by Muslim mafia. It being a border state didn't help as Pakistan supported many of these Muslims underworld mafia. And i am not taking about dawoodi bohras muslims here, who were again educated and hard working businessmen and got along very well with Hindus traders, even till this day they vote for Modi. Other Gujarati muslims never focused on studies and many of the uneducated muslims took to crime and became gangsters that really sowed the seeds for this backlash. Many people don't know but Amit Shah claim to fame was that he terminated most of these extortion gangs through encounter killing and that's how most Gujaratis remember him for.

 

[RexRex]

The correct sequence of events as they happened is

Ram temple destoyed
Mosque built over it
Mosque destroyed
Ram temple restored

now you conveniently left out the first 2 events for obvious reasons and this sort of nonsense is the root cause of why muscular hardline hindu activism is taking hold.

History is not relevant to my point. Babri Mosque was torn down by a hindu nationalist mob in 1992. They took justice into their own hands. Hence the term 'muscular'. They went above the remit of the state authorities.

 

[uppercut]

History is not relevant to my point.

At this rate you might as well add logic , rationale , reasoning , sense of whats right and wrong and historical facts to that list of things you ignore

Babri Mosque was torn down by a hindu nationalist mob in 1992. They took justice into their own hands. Hence the term 'muscular'. They went above the remit of the state authorities.

See above point. So when you strip logic and facts this is the sort of artificial narrative that gets manufactured and now in the small matter of 2 posts I have shown you why people like you are the main reason for most communal issues in India.

 

[RexRex]

At this rate you might as well add logic , rationale , reasoning , sense of whats right and wrong and historical facts to that list of things you ignore

Yes, keep encouraging this vigilante mob justice instead of going through the legal system. It's the same reason used to justify the gujarat massacres of 2001.

 

[Ml12345]

There is not hate for Muslims. Hindus and Muslims have mutual respect for each other. People just hate criminals and troublemakers and lots of such bad elements happen to be Muslims. Hindus love and respect law abiding Muslims. Muslims burnt a train full of Hindu Pilgrims which resulted in the riots and people of all religions got killed like in any other riot.

 

[uppercut]

Yes, keep encouraging this vigilante mob justice instead of going through the legal system.

Does it occur to you that the ecosystem built by people that subscribe to your ideological orientation are the "raison d'etre" for the existence of all Hindu vigilante groups in the country ?

It's the same reason used to justify the gujarat massacres of 2001.

Nobody used any "justification" for that crime(certainly not me), our courts went to extreme lengths to ensure justice was done and it all happened when the supposedly evil BJP was not in power.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

At this rate you might as well add logic , rationale , reasoning , sense of whats right and wrong and historical facts to that list of things you ignore



See above point. So when you strip logic and facts this is the sort of artificial narrative that gets manufactured and now in the small matter of 2 posts I have shown you why people like you are the main reason for most communal issues in India.

The only reason for communal issues in Bharat is because the govt encourages them. You can hardly look at the make up of the party and the public statements of their local ministers and deduce otherwise.

 

[uppercut]

The only reason for communal issues in Bharat is because the govt encourages them. You can hardly look at the make up of the party and the public statements of their local ministers and deduce otherwise.

You mean the current BJP govt?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You mean the current BJP govt?

Not particularly.

 

[Stewie]

Does it occur to you that the ecosystem built by people that subscribe to your ideological orientation are the "raison d'etre" for the existence of all Hindu vigilante groups in the country ?



Nobody used any "justification" for that crime(certainly not me), our courts went to extreme lengths to ensure justice was done and it all happened when the supposedly evil BJP was not in power.

I think you have made an important point. Except this does t apply just to vigilante groups but can be applied widely to a number of political groups and BJP.

To them it’s a existential identity now, the anti criminal Muslim agenda, which has now naturally expanded to all Muslims now that they have killed off or eliminated the criminal Muslim element.

Think about it.. this is how we began, so how do we continue to be popular? Let’s paint them all with the same brush and start a war against them and let’s include Pakistan in this as well and call those who oppose us Pakistanis. Now you have a steady stream of enemy that just won’t die off and a steady stream of people who believes in this enemy and will continue to give you power to fight them off ..


… where in actuality there is no fight really to be had. Mostly you are victimizing your own citizens.

 

[uppercut]

Not particularly.

Elaborate as to which past govts you hold as responsible

 

[uppercut]

I think you have made an important point. Except this does t apply just to vigilante groups but can be applied widely to a number of political groups and BJP.

To them it’s a existential identity now, the anti criminal Muslim agenda, which has now naturally expanded to all Muslims now that they have killed off or eliminated the criminal Muslim element.

Think about it.. this is how we began, so how do we continue to be popular? Let’s paint them all with the same brush and start a war against them and let’s include Pakistan in this as well and call those who oppose us Pakistanis. Now you have a steady stream of enemy that just won’t die off and a steady stream of people who believes in this enemy and will continue to give you power to fight them off ..


… where in actuality there is no fight really to be had. Mostly you are victimizing your own citizens.

Except that the number of terror attacks, riots have declined under the current BJP govt.

 

[Stewie]

Except that the number of terror attacks, riots have declined under the current BJP govt.

You missed the whole point of what I was trying to say.

 

[uppercut]

You missed the whole point of what I was trying to say.

How so? Your post tries to blame BJP for "painting them all with the same brush and start a war against them and let’s include Pakistan in this as well and call those who oppose us Pakistanis". If that was the case we would see endless acts of un-provoked violence against Muslims in India. But the hard data suggests otherwise.

 

[Stewie]

How so? Your post tries to blame BJP for "painting them all with the same brush and start a war against them and let’s include Pakistan in this as well and call those who oppose us Pakistanis". If that was the case we would see endless acts of un-provoked violence against Muslims in India. But the hard data suggests otherwise.

i am not sure what hard data you are referring to. perhaps refer to neutral sources. it is no secret that muslims are being marginalized more and more in india. but of course BJPers will always claim those sources have an agenda, even if they are HRW or any other neutral body.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes, keep encouraging this vigilante mob justice instead of going through the legal system. It's the same reason used to justify the gujarat massacres of 2001.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. The justice system is rotten to the core, so you cannot expect people to keep waiting for milords. More power to vigilante justice. Even in US, the decolonization is happening with mob justice only. The judiciary is only to help the elite. Real justice happens on the streets, not the courts.

 

[RexRex]

Does it occur to you that the ecosystem built by people that subscribe to your ideological orientation are the "raison d'etre" for the existence of all Hindu vigilante groups in the country ?

What do you mean by 'ecosystem' ? They were the lawfully elected governments of the other political parties.

You can't take justice in your own hands because you disagree with another party's politics. That's the whole point of ELECTIONS.

 

[RexRex]

Nobody used any "justification" for that crime(certainly not me), our courts went to extreme lengths to ensure justice was done and it all happened when the supposedly evil BJP was not in power.

I have lost count of the number of posts on here and in real life who said the 2001 massacre was revenge for the Godhra train burning. That is mob justice. They didn't rely on the courts, they took their anger out on complete strangers who had nothing to do with the train burning.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Elaborate as to which past govts you hold as responsible

I don't hold any past govt responsible, this has been put forward by hindutvas that Congress themselves have indulged in communal politics. But the govt has to reflect it's people so where to put the blame is not that simple.

 

[RexRex]

Nothing happens in a vacuum. The justice system is rotten to the core, so you cannot expect people to keep waiting for milords. More power to vigilante justice. Even in US, the decolonization is happening with mob justice only. The judiciary is only to help the elite. Real justice happens on the streets, not the courts.

Alright .. might as well have mob rule then. A Taliban-style setup.

By the way, I don't think the actual judges are as rotten to the core. It's the prosecution/CBI that is rotten since they report directly to the party in power. The prosecutor refuses to bring forth cases or slow-walks them so that the party in power can silently blackmail their political opponents and keep them in check. It is done by both the BJP and Congress, hence why you rarely see them go after each other with actual convictions .. atleast their top level leaders.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I have lost count of the number of posts on here and in real life who said the 2001 massacre was revenge for the Godhra train burning. That is mob justice. They didn't rely on the courts, they took their anger out on complete strangers who had nothing to do with the train burning.

Its amusing how you called Godhra as train burning and Riots massacre.

Why were the 59 people burned to death in Godhra? What was the provocation?

 

[RexRex]

Why were the 59 people burned to death in Godhra? What was the provocation?

I don't know why. Do you know the reason ?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't know why. Do you know the reason ?

Then you will never understand the reason of the reaction that followed.

 

[RexRex]

Then you will never understand the reason of the reaction that followed.

Stop being coy & evasive and tell me the reason. I sincerely want to know.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Alright .. might as well have mob rule then. A Taliban-style setup.

By the way, I don't think the actual judges are as rotten to the core. It's the prosecution/CBI that is rotten since they report directly to the party in power. The prosecutor refuses to bring forth cases or slow-walks them so that the party in power can silently blackmail their political opponents and keep them in check. It is done by both the BJP and Congress, hence why you rarely see them go after each other with actual convictions .. atleast their top level leaders.

Vigilantes are just filling the massive void created by the corrupt judiciary. If everyone did their job, there would be no need to common people to turn vigilantes. More power to these quasi judiciary system from grassroots, which delivers instant justice.

Truly democratic than the self appointed milords who are answerable to no one. Even the politicians, no matter how bad, have to face the public once in a while, but not these milords.

 

[kumjsr]

I have lost count of the number of posts on here and in real life who said the 2001 massacre was revenge for the Godhra train burning. That is mob justice. They didn't rely on the courts, they took their anger out on complete strangers who had nothing to do with the train burning.

Is there any court which could have convicted thousands of people involved in train burning?

Has it happened in past? Any examples even from other countries?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Is there any court which could have convicted thousands of people involved in train burning?

Has it happened in past? Any examples even from other countries?

So I assume like joshila bhai you believe in mob justice? If you are just say so, your compatriot and fellow hindutva @CricketCartoons has no hesitation in declaring this is the way.

 

[kumjsr]

So I assume like joshila bhai you believe in mob justice? If you are just say so, your compatriot and fellow hindutva @CricketCartoons has no hesitation in declaring this is the way.

I haven't been that type of situation ever in life. Mob justice should never be the response.

I am asking simple question, What should have been ideal response in this case?

Wait for police and legal system to take it's course? Is it practically possible for police and judiciary to identify and convict thousands of perpetrators in such cases? Is there any example in other countries with better societies and better legal system?

Or is there any other option?

 

[uppercut]

i am not sure what hard data you are referring to. perhaps refer to neutral sources. it is no secret that muslims are being marginalized more and more in india. but of course BJPers will always claim those sources have an agenda, even if they are HRW or any other neutral body.

A simple way to settle that is see how many communally motivated incidents are reported on prominent Indian media. If what you are saying were to be the norm I would expect a regular and un-ending stream of un-provoked acts of violence.

Also I would never expect ANY acts of violence against the majority. I can tell you that is FAAAR from the truth, please don't equate the minorities in Pakistan to Minorities in India. You have no idea whatsoever as to how drastically different the situation is in India.

I will give you one more data point : The WAQF board in India is one of the largest landholder next only to massive govt institutions like the Railways. Significant chunk of Delhi belongs to them. Can you explain how that is possible in a country where you claim Muslim oppression is deep rooted and widespread.

 

[uppercut]

Alright .. might as well have mob rule then. A Taliban-style setup.

By the way, I don't think the actual judges are as rotten to the core. It's the prosecution/CBI that is rotten since they report directly to the party in power. The prosecutor refuses to bring forth cases or slow-walks them so that the party in power can silently blackmail their political opponents and keep them in check. It is done by both the BJP and Congress, hence why you rarely see them go after each other with actual convictions .. atleast their top level leaders.

There exists an even better solution .... How about turning your attention/ire/outrage towards the root cause of the problem and getting that fixed ? Ever wonder why there are sooo many horrific acts of violence conducted by Muslims ? They are implicated in Everything from ethinic cleansing to mass murders to riots to gang violence to love jihad etc. Why is it that you ohh so conveniently ignore the root cause and start your scrutiny on the aftermath or response ? For instance When was the last time you expressed outrage at the broad daylight torching of 59 innocent Hindu pilgrims most of them Women and Children ? Ditto for what happened to the Kashmiri Pandits ?

 

[uppercut]

I don't know why. Do you know the reason ?

So let me get this straight .... you claim to not know the reason for daylight torching of 59 Hindu pilgrims ( therefore by logical deduction we can safely conclude that you are unlikely to know the list of perpetrators of that horrific massacre and what happened to them ) but here and elsewhere you have declared Hindu vigilante groups ( and ofcourse Modi) to be the villain of Gujrat 2001 and are outraged at what happened in the vigilante backlash thereafter. Complete radio silence and ignorance on the main event. Do you not see the glaring problem in your stance ?

Here is the real problem : Did it ever to you that there are still few mass murderers absconding ? Who is to be blamed for that and why are you the self proclaimed savior of all things innocent not aware of this let alone express scorn/outrage yet ?

 

[RexRex]

So let me get this straight .... you claim to not know the reason for daylight torching of 59 Hindu pilgrims ( therefore by logical deduction we can safely conclude that you are unlikely to know the list of perpetrators of that horrific massacre and what happened to them ) but here and elsewhere you have declared Hindu vigilante groups ( and ofcourse Modi) to be the villain of Gujrat 2001 and are outraged at what happened in the vigilante backlash thereafter. Complete radio silence and ignorance on the main event. Do you not see the glaring problem in your stance ?

There is no glaring problem.

What are we supposed to do about the Godhra incident except ensure that the culprits be bought to justice? On the other hand, the 2001 riots are singled out because of the complicity of the state i.e the law-enforcement being asked to not interfere and prevent the mob from the subsequent massacres. THEY LET IT HAPPEN.

 

[RexRex]

There exists an even better solution .... How about turning your attention/ire/outrage towards the root cause of the problem and getting that fixed ? Ever wonder why there are sooo many horrific acts of violence conducted by Muslims ? They are implicated in Everything from ethinic cleansing to mass murders to riots to gang violence to love jihad etc. Why is it that you ohh so conveniently ignore the root cause and start your scrutiny on the aftermath or response ? For instance When was the last time you expressed outrage at the broad daylight torching of 59 innocent Hindu pilgrims most of them Women and Children ? Ditto for what happened to the Kashmiri Pandits ?

I don't understand the point of this post. What is preventing you from using the law to solve all these problems you listed above? The BJP is in power at the moment.

Why aren't the BJP doing anything about the Kashmir Pandits ?
Why aren't the BJP doing anything to bring the villians of Godhra to justice ?
Why aren't the BJP doing anything to remove temples from state control ?

Direct your anger at your beloved party who've been in power for 10 years now instead of defending mob justice.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I don't understand the point of this post. What is preventing you from using the law to solve all these problems you listed above? The BJP is in power at the moment.

Why aren't the BJP doing anything about the Kashmir Pandits ?
Why aren't the BJP doing anything to bring the villians of Godhra to justice ?
Why aren't the BJP doing anything to remove temples from state control ?

Direct your anger at your beloved party who've been in power for 10 years now instead of defending mob justice.

BJP is not much different from congress, in fact today's BJP is the closest to the congress of 1947. BJP uses us and we use them, but our cause is much much bigger than a political party.

Vigilante justice is the only solution for now. You can keep waiting for judiciary to become effective and functional, we are not going to wait anymore.

 

[uppercut]

There is no glaring problem. Use your tiny brain for god's sake.

Strike two. While I let your initial jab slide which not surprisingly happened in a matter of 3 posts into this discussion between us, don't mistake my restraint for weakness. If I chose to engage in a battle of trading barbs and insults, I'd be fighting an unarmed opponent afterall its very easy dismantle your arguments and your ego quite brutally, but I'd rather stick to the issue at hand. Your move. And ohh I did not report your post that got modded(nor did I cross the line in my response) when you tried your stunt of insulting me earlier in this thread... it was a suo-moto action on the part of the mods.

And yet here we are after all that and you somehow feel you have the higher moral ground on this topic. Let me categorically assure you that you will quietly slip away from this thread once your usual ammo of ad-hominem is neutered. Let me know how you want to proceed.

What are we supposed to do about the Godhra incident except ensure that the culprits be bought to justice?

for starters ... Show me ONE single post from YOU and your like minded comrades that will similarly vociferously bat for the victims of the Godhra train torching and countless other horrific attrocities. While you guys will cry hoarse on a near regular basis to highlight the Plight of the muslims who suffered in the riots while here you are matter of factly claiming ignorance on why innocent Hindu Pilgrims were torched in broad daylight. I mean shouldnt you be equally outraged instead of claiming ignorance ? Doesnt shock me one bit by the way but not surprised at all by the "Whats wrong with you guys" type of posts instead. Talk about ulta chor and all that ...

On the other hand, the 2001 riots are singled out because of the complicity of the state i.e the law-enforcement being asked to not interfere and prevent the mob from the subsequent massacres. THEY LET IT HAPPEN.

Lets assume that the "THEY LET IT HAPPEN" part is true, even though the highest court has ruled otherwise, does it occur to you that a similar yardstick needs to be applied to the main massacre that lead to the event ? Or is this a one-way street where the burden of communal harmony solely rests on one community ?

 

[Ml12345]

The bottom line is you don't start a fight that you can't finish and then cry victims. Muslims did that in Godhra and very recently in Israel (even if their land is illegally occupied). When you hit someone, they are going to react.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The bottom line is you don't start a fight that you can't finish and then cry victims. Muslims did that in Godhra and very recently in Israel (even if their land is illegally occupied). When you hit someone, they are going to react.

Israel started the fight in Palestine. What happened in Godhra is similar to every other time hindutva mobs went on the rampage against Muslim communities, in hindsight a motive is always produced by saying it was them who started it first. It does seem that both hindutva hardliners and Muslim communities both want the same thing, the elimination of Muslim communities in Bharat. It's very strange.

 

[Stewie]

it is quite clear looking at this thread there is genuine hatred of muslims in india. they are equating indian muslims with the palestinians now, painting all their issues with a broad brush, insinuating its Muslims themselves who are evil. I dont think it could be clearer than this how deep this hatred has run now.

 

[uppercut]

I don't understand the point of this post. What is preventing you from using the law to solve all these problems you listed above? The BJP is in power at the moment.

Why aren't the BJP doing anything about the Kashmir Pandits ?
Why aren't the BJP doing anything to bring the villians of Godhra to justice ?
Why aren't the BJP doing anything to remove temples from state control ?

Direct your anger at your beloved party who've been in power for 10 years now instead of defending mob justice.

Lets start with your own conscience first ... whats stopping you from learning about the original atrocities and calling them out instead of focusing solely only the reactions to those horrific atrocities ? Never once have I seen you call out the original crimes and the perpetrators. Worse right here in this thread you said you were not even aware of the reasons.

 

[uppercut]

Israel started the fight in Palestine. What happened in Godhra is similar to every other time hindutva mobs went on the rampage against Muslim communities, in hindsight a motive is always produced by saying it was them who started it first. It does seem that both hindutva hardliners and Muslim communities both want the same thing, the elimination of Muslim communities in Bharat. It's very strange.

Lets see some real data on this .... do you have dates and body counts when these "rampages" initiated by Hindu vigilante groups happened ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Lets see some real data on this .... do you have dates and body counts when these "rampages" initiated by Hindu vigilante groups happened ?

The data is in the hands of the hindutva authorities in the first place, journalists are heavily censored. How would you expect me to have access to it?

 

[uppercut]

it is quite clear looking at this thread there is genuine hatred of muslims in india. they are equating indian muslims with the palestinians now, painting all their issues with a broad brush, insinuating its Muslims themselves who are evil. I dont think it could be clearer than this how deep this hatred has run now.

No response to my post# 206 ?

The data is in the hands of the hindutva authorities in the first place, journalists are heavily censored. How would you expect me to have access to it?

Then how do you know that there are atrocities happening in the first place ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No response to my post# 206 ?



Then how do you know that there are atrocities happening in the first place ?

You can't control all the information in the age of social media. But you can doctor it afterwards to paint a more favourable picture.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

it is quite clear looking at this thread there is genuine hatred of muslims in india. they are equating indian muslims with the palestinians now, painting all their issues with a broad brush, insinuating its Muslims themselves who are evil. I dont think it could be clearer than this how deep this hatred has run now.

One of the reasons for this thread was there seems to be a genuine hatred in Gujarat, and considering it rose to prominence after the ethnic riots under Modi's tenure, there does seem to be a pattern. However, that doesn't mean it is representative of the rest of India, but given enough time, maybe it will be.

 

[Stewie]

No response to my post# 206 ?



Then how do you know that there are atrocities happening in the first place ?

Those are arbitrary and subjective assessments. you and I dont have to do any of those if there the expert views on the matter already exist. i can share those (and have shared those here multiple times in the past). the situation for Muslims has gone down the drain in recent years in india. but of course you and others who think like you will continue to blow the trumpet of that not being the case.

 

[uppercut]

Those are arbitrary and subjective assessments.

whats arbitrary about them ?

you and I dont have to do any of those if there the expert views on the matter already exist. i can share those (and have shared those here multiple times in the past). the situation for Muslims has gone down the drain in recent years in india. but of course you and others who think like you will continue to blow the trumpet of that not being the case.

Who are these experts ? Any links that I can take a look at ?

 

[Stewie]

whats arbitrary about them ?




Who are these experts ? Any links that I can take a look at ?

Why don’t you google this stuff? What are you really trying to do? You are on a Pakistani board trying to tell us that India is taking care of its Muslims and BJP and Modi are not spreading hatred of Muslims? Are you really that blinded by propaganda or are you just here to troll?

Just google this stuff, you will find plenty of legit neutral sources. But once again for Bhakts what really is legit and neutral and credible?

Access Asia - Rising Islamophobia in India: How Modi's BJP is spreading anti-Muslim sentiment

In India, derogatory comments about the Prophet Mohammed made two officials from India's ruling Bharatiya Janata Party have sparked a mixture of deadly protests and diplomatic spats. Countries like Oman,…

www.france24.com

India’s Muslims: An Increasingly Marginalized Population

India’s Muslim communities have faced decades of discrimination, which experts say has worsened under the Hindu nationalist BJP’s government.

www.cfr.org

How India's Hindu Nationalists Are Weaponizing History Against Muslims

The BJP is spreading a false history about the Mughal empire and more, to spread its Hindu nationalist vision.

time.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/11/modi-india-muslims-hatred-incitement/

10 Times When BJP Leaders (Not Fringe) Made Anti-Muslim Hate Speeches

Although the Union government has labelled leaders who made Islamophobic remarks as part of the fringe in the face of global outrage, the anti-Muslim rhetoric is too mainstream to ignore and gloss over.

m.thewire.in

India: Surge in Summary Punishments of Muslims

The authorities in India are increasingly using summary and abusive punishments against Muslims deemed to have broken the law.

www.hrw.org

India: Government Policies, Actions Target Minorities

Authorities in India have adopted laws and policies that systematically discriminate against Muslims and stigmatize critics of the government, Human Rights Watch said today.

www.hrw.org

 

[CricketCartoons]

The historically oppressed have all the right to have hatred. It is the most righteous emotion any victim can harbour. Even violence by the historically oppressed in not violence, but honourable physical resistance.

 

[cricketjoshila]

There is no glaring problem.

What are we supposed to do about the Godhra incident except ensure that the culprits be bought to justice? On the other hand, the 2001 riots are singled out because of the complicity of the state i.e the law-enforcement being asked to not interfere and prevent the mob from the subsequent massacres. THEY LET IT HAPPEN.

Can you point out the evidence in court that proved that law enforcement was asked not to stop the riots?

Don't give me he she said media opinions or documentaries, give court evidence.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why don’t you google this stuff? What are you really trying to do? You are on a Pakistani board trying to tell us that India is taking care of its Muslims and BJP and Modi are not spreading hatred of Muslims? Are you really that blinded by propaganda or are you just here to troll?

Just google this stuff, you will find plenty of legit neutral sources. But once again for Bhakts what really is legit and neutral and credible?

Access Asia - Rising Islamophobia in India: How Modi's BJP is spreading anti-Muslim sentiment

In India, derogatory comments about the Prophet Mohammed made two officials from India's ruling Bharatiya Janata Party have sparked a mixture of deadly protests and diplomatic spats. Countries like Oman,…

www.france24.com

India’s Muslims: An Increasingly Marginalized Population

India’s Muslim communities have faced decades of discrimination, which experts say has worsened under the Hindu nationalist BJP’s government.

www.cfr.org

How India's Hindu Nationalists Are Weaponizing History Against Muslims

The BJP is spreading a false history about the Mughal empire and more, to spread its Hindu nationalist vision.

time.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/11/modi-india-muslims-hatred-incitement/

10 Times When BJP Leaders (Not Fringe) Made Anti-Muslim Hate Speeches

Although the Union government has labelled leaders who made Islamophobic remarks as part of the fringe in the face of global outrage, the anti-Muslim rhetoric is too mainstream to ignore and gloss over.

m.thewire.in

India: Surge in Summary Punishments of Muslims

The authorities in India are increasingly using summary and abusive punishments against Muslims deemed to have broken the law.

www.hrw.org

India: Government Policies, Actions Target Minorities

Authorities in India have adopted laws and policies that systematically discriminate against Muslims and stigmatize critics of the government, Human Rights Watch said today.

www.hrw.org

First of all stop posting opinion of NGOs as truth. Its their opinion and agenda.

Secondly, the same European outlet that says BJP leaders insulted The Prophet(Pbuh), will cry FoE when cartoons are made and holy Quran is burnt.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why don’t you google this stuff? What are you really trying to do? You are on a Pakistani board trying to tell us that India is taking care of its Muslims and BJP and Modi are not spreading hatred of Muslims? Are you really that blinded by propaganda or are you just here to troll?

Just google this stuff, you will find plenty of legit neutral sources. But once again for Bhakts what really is legit and neutral and credible?

Access Asia - Rising Islamophobia in India: How Modi's BJP is spreading anti-Muslim sentiment

In India, derogatory comments about the Prophet Mohammed made two officials from India's ruling Bharatiya Janata Party have sparked a mixture of deadly protests and diplomatic spats. Countries like Oman,…

www.france24.com

India’s Muslims: An Increasingly Marginalized Population

India’s Muslim communities have faced decades of discrimination, which experts say has worsened under the Hindu nationalist BJP’s government.

www.cfr.org

How India's Hindu Nationalists Are Weaponizing History Against Muslims

The BJP is spreading a false history about the Mughal empire and more, to spread its Hindu nationalist vision.

time.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/11/modi-india-muslims-hatred-incitement/

10 Times When BJP Leaders (Not Fringe) Made Anti-Muslim Hate Speeches

Although the Union government has labelled leaders who made Islamophobic remarks as part of the fringe in the face of global outrage, the anti-Muslim rhetoric is too mainstream to ignore and gloss over.

m.thewire.in

India: Surge in Summary Punishments of Muslims

The authorities in India are increasingly using summary and abusive punishments against Muslims deemed to have broken the law.

www.hrw.org

India: Government Policies, Actions Target Minorities

Authorities in India have adopted laws and policies that systematically discriminate against Muslims and stigmatize critics of the government, Human Rights Watch said today.

www.hrw.org

Audrey Truschke.

 

[Ml12345]

Israel started the fight in Palestine. What happened in Godhra is similar to every other time hindutva mobs went on the rampage against Muslim communities, in hindsight a motive is always produced by saying it was them who started it first. It does seem that both hindutva hardliners and Muslim communities both want the same thing, the elimination of Muslim communities in Bharat. It's very strange.

Surprise surprise. They are still growing faster than any other community in India. Looks like efforts to eliminate are not really working . You conveniently ignored the fact that Muslims started the Godhra fiasco and then cried victim. So typical. How to eliminate minorities, we have to learn from some other countries.

 

[Stewie]

And as expected canned responses from Bhakts start flowing in. Don’t quote this don’t quote that. Hahaha.

Across the world there are plenty of organizations who are showing you guys the mirror and you hate being told the reality. Stop telling the world who or what to believe. When it suits you guys you are quick to use the same sources. Go figure!

 

[cricketjoshila]

And as expected canned responses from Bhakts start flowing in. Don’t quote this don’t quote that. Hahaha.

Across the world there are plenty of organizations who are showing you guys the mirror and you hate being told the reality. Stop telling the world who or what to believe. When it suits you guys you are quick to use the same sources. Go figure!

Stop telling Indians what to do what not to do and how to run their country.

Give some proof not opinion of NGOs. NGOs spread propoganda of their donors.

NGO opinions are not admissible as evidence in any court of law.

Coming to European media outlet, as per them politicians in India insulting The Prophet (Pbuh) is Islamophobia, but same done via cartoons in Europe is FoE.

 

[Stewie]

Stop telling Indians what to do what not to do and how to run their country.

Give some proof not opinion of NGOs. NGOs spread propoganda of their donors.

NGO opinions are not admissible as evidence in any court of law.

Coming to European media outlet, as per them politicians in India insulting The Prophet (Pbuh) is Islamophobia, but same done via cartoons in Europe is FoE.

I will say and do what I want. This is not India where you and your lot can tell people what to do. So unfortunately you will have to hear me and you will also have to “hear” the thousands other speaking out the reality you think is “alternate”

 

[cricketjoshila]

I will say and do what I want. This is not India where you and your lot can tell people what to do. So unfortunately you will have to hear me and you will also have to “hear” the thousands other speaking out the reality you think is “alternate”
You can either bury your head in the sand, put me on ignore, just leave this board and hang out at whatever other stormfront like board Hindu extremists hang out at, or continue being a nuisance here. Unlike you lot we don’t force people to think or believe like them.
Guess you are gonna have to suck it up.

Good that you realised that we will do whatever we want in India and all you will do is post on virtual boards.


Unfortunately we ignore unnecessary noise. And no amount of whining by you or the thousands you talk about is going to affect us or India.

I need not do anything but watch and enjoy as you throw your toys out in frustration. Because there is nothing else you can do.

 

[Stewie]

Good that you realised that we will do whatever we want in India and all you will do is post on virtual boards.


Unfortunately we ignore unnecessary noise. And no amount of whining by you or the thousands you talk about is going to affect us or India.

I need not do anything but watch and enjoy as you throw your toys out in frustration. Because there is nothing else you can do.

Well, thank you for finally admitting what we have been saying all along. India is a modern day genocidal and hateful state run by Hindu zealots who dont care what the world says and run the country as they want, a country where a vast majority of Muslims resides. You are and have been continuing to run it as you want and impose your draconian genocidal leader's agenda and blow his trumpet on the media. That hate has now spilled over to your support of Israel. Thats all we are saying here. Remember the title of the thread "What is the root of Hatred". Nobody is telling you what to do or how to run your country. Simply showing you the mirror, the lot screaming bloody murder for years over how Pakistan does things. Well now you guys are finally owning up to the fact you are not much different and the hatred on your side runs as deep, possibly deeper.

I have to give kudos to you, at least you are more honest than others owning up to the truth now.