Gujarat India - what is the root of the hatred?

[AAli98]

Modi & Netanyahooo are serial killers just look at their eyes.. they would kill 1 million Muslims on a day & show no remorse they’ll have dinner that night as if nothing’s happened.

 

[gani999]

Why, do you disagree with the schedule? Much rather have this where Pakistan play in the quieter parts of town while Aus vs SA etc are exposed to the Lucknow riff-raff.

I don't disagree with the schedule. What I'm asking is why the likes of you would 'much rather have Pakistan play in the quiet part of town', when they themselves didn't complain about what happened at Ahmedabad. Like all others, the Pak team seem to be a professional side who take hostile audiences in their stride. So why the concern from 'liberals' like yourself?
The last thing the Pak team seems to need is this sort of mollycoddling from certain Indians.

 

[Varun]

I don't disagree with the schedule. What I'm asking is why the likes of you would 'much rather have Pakistan play in the quiet part of town', when they themselves didn't complain about what happened at Ahmedabad. Like all others, the Pak team seem to be a professional side who take hostile audiences in their stride. So why the concern from 'liberals' like yourself?
The last thing the Pak team seems to need is this sort of mollycoddling from certain Indians.

Because I don't want an arena for non sporting/borderline communal acts at a cricket stadium? Go figure.

 

[Rajdeep]

I said my interest is minimal, not that it is non-existent. Once you are able to make that distinction the rest of your words are meaningless on that topic.

Singing Dil Dil Pakistan isn't what anyone asked for and it's beside the point. Shouting abuse at Pakistan players and using Jai Shri Ram chants like your mobs do when attacking Muslims in Ahmedabad, that is hateful though. Your own writers and former cricketers are saying it, but if it's too far from the script you are taught then there's not much can be done about that.

Okay so I was right that this thread is a result of that cricket match...thanks for accepting.

Now can you pls enlighten what abuse been hurled at Pakistani players? Has anyone from Pak team, PCB, ICC or anyone has complained? However, you sitting in your home in UK somehow got to know that abuses being hurdled at Pak cricketers?

Since you did not give any specifics, let me help you out a bit. Is your issue is with the booing?

Booing is a normal thing in sports. Many times even Indian players got booed at. Dhoni got booed in Lords, Kohli got booed in Mumbai. It happens in other sports too...English crowds booed every team and thier national anthems during Euro 2020 from Wembley Stadium.

So what is the abuse?

Okay let me help you out a bit more...is your issue is some people were chanting those 'Baap Baap hota hai...' juvenile chants?

Isn't it the same same thing that Pak fans chanted during CT2017 finals? So you can dish it but can't take it?

As far as Jai Shri Ram is concerned, it is a holy chant and not abuse. Also, it was only directed towards Rizwan (and not on any other players) since he brings religion everywhere.

And LOL at singing Dil Dil Pakistan is not something anyone asked for. You coach sahab himself said it in post match conference that no Dil Dil being played. He should rather teach his team to play good cricket and give the DJ an opportunity to play Dil Dil Pakistan. If you get folded for 36/8 and lose a game with 25+ overs to spare...no one can play Dil Dil isn't it?

So based on these from certain section of fans you came to the conclusion that entire State of Gujarat (land of more than 5 million people) is hateful?

Look everyone can see the bottom-line from far away...no one is spring chicken here.

These kind of threads are only being created because your team lost a cricket match and the defeat is too hard to take. Had Pak team won that game, we would not have seen any such threads.

Lets not pretend.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Okay so I was right that this thread is a result of that cricket match...thanks for accepting.

Now can you pls enlighten what abuse been hurled at Pakistani players? Has anyone from Pak team, PCB, ICC or anyone has complained? However, you sitting in your home in UK somehow got to know that abuses being hurdled at Pak cricketers?

Since you did not give any specifics, let me help you out a bit. Is your issue is with the booing?

Booing is a normal thing in sports. Many times even Indian players got booed at. Dhoni got booed in Lords, Kohli got booed in Mumbai. It happens in other sports too...English crowds booed every team and thier national anthems during Euro 2020 from Wembley Stadium.

So what is the abuse?

Okay let me help you out a bit more...is your issue is some people were chanting those 'Baap Baap hota hai...' juvenile chants?

Isn't it the same same thing that Pak fans chanted during CT2017 finals? So you can dish it but can't take it?

As far as Jai Shri Ram is concerned, it is a holy chant and not abuse. Also, it was only directed towards Rizwan (and not on any other players) since he brings religion everywhere.

And LOL at singing Dil Dil Pakistan is not something anyone asked for. You coach sahab himself said it in post match conference that no Dil Dil being played. He should rather teach his team to play good cricket and give the DJ an opportunity to play Dil Dil Pakistan. If you get folded for 36/8 and lose a game with 25+ overs to spare...no one can play Dil Dil isn't it?

So based on these from certain section of fans you came to the conclusion that entire State of Gujarat (land of more than 5 million people) is hateful?

Look everyone can see the bottom-line from far away...no one is spring chicken here.

These kind of threads are only being created because your team lost a cricket match and the defeat is too hard to take. Had Pak team won that game, we would not have seen any such threads.

Lets not pretend.

I would respect you more if you just said yes we do hate Pakistan, what are you going to do about it instead of trying to present disinformation and think you are fooling anyone. Why don't you guys ever say stuff openly, are you ashamed of it? Hey for all I know Ahmedabad might have good historical reasons for hating Muslims, I already hinted at one in the OP. Maybe you should consider it, I wonder why you don't want to say it? Ahmedabad? Is it a name you are proud of as a Bharati?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Modi & Netanyahooo are serial killers just look at their eyes.. they would kill 1 million Muslims on a day & show no remorse they’ll have dinner that night as if nothing’s happened.

Have you heard about Black September?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Because I don't want an arena for non sporting/borderline communal acts at a cricket stadium? Go figure.

People are not required to act as per your opinion. Just like you, they have their opinion.

Or maybe this is new India hostile and brash.
We have become full of ourselves, loving taking credit for hard work of scientists at ISRO as our own lol

So Indians should not feel proud of the work done by ISRO?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Thank you for an honest answer. Another Bharat poster @rhony has recently posted similar assessment, expressing much glee at Pakistan burning, and I have heard many hindutvas espousing this view.

If this isn't hatred I don't know what is. But I agree with you that Pakistan is doing a good job in self destruction, that is always likely to happen when you have martial law masquerading as democracy. The problem with this of course is that it's no longer the people making national decisions, it's one leader who might decide to sell the country down the road if the offer is attractive enough.

1. I am not a Hindu, I am a Proud Sikh of Bharat Mata.

2. Regarding Glee at Pakistan burning, off course we will because here is a nation hell bent on destruction of India, causing immense harm of the life of people of India. Pakistan is an existential threat for India. Why would we not celebrate its downfall as a nation.

3. Did I claimed that there is no hatred in India for Pakistan ? I am pretty transparent and straightforward in telling you that there is immense hatred in India towards Pakistan, and it increased hundred fold after Mumbai Terrorist attacks.

You asked for root cause of the hatred, I have clearly specified and explain what is the reason of hatred. It is because of Terrorism emanating from Pakistan.

 

[JaDed]

People are not required to act as per your opinion. Just like you, they have their opinion.



So Indians should not feel proud of the work done by ISRO?

ISRO scientists are pretty humble, people on social media are lecturing and mocking others when mission was successful is stupid. Happiness is different from mocking others.

 

[gani999]

I would respect you more if you just said yes we do hate Pakistan, what are you going to do about it instead of trying to present disinformation and think you are fooling anyone. Why don't you guys ever say stuff openly, are you ashamed of it? Hey for all I know Ahmedabad might have good historical reasons for hating Muslims, I already hinted at one in the OP. Maybe you should consider it, I wonder why you don't want to say it? Ahmedabad? Is it a name you are proud of as a Bharati?

We would respect you more too, if you set aside your fake 'British objectivity' and admit that you hate India and Hindus. It's all too obvious in your posts. Why don't you say it openly?

 

[Rajdeep]

I would respect you more if you just said yes we do hate Pakistan, what are you going to do about it instead of trying to present disinformation and think you are fooling anyone. Why don't you guys ever say stuff openly, are you ashamed of it? Hey for all I know Ahmedabad might have good historical reasons for hating Muslims, I already hinted at one in the OP. Maybe you should consider it, I wonder why you don't want to say it? Ahmedabad? Is it a name you are proud of as a Bharati?

Translation - I have no answer.

So let me try again, you said Ahmedabad crowd hurdled abusive behavior towards Pak cricket team. All I am asking for is to quote some examples of such abuses?

I don't need your respect but pls answer my question. Since you opened a thread about a topic...I am sure you must have done some research.

 

[RexRex]

Because I don't want an arena for non sporting/borderline communal acts at a cricket stadium? Go figure.

You have to admit that cacophonous sea of blue in the Indo-Pak game ... it looked more like the Nuremberg rally !

I am exaggerating of course but there's something about the air in Gujarat ...

 

[Rajdeep]

You have to admit that cacophonous sea of blue in the Indo-Pak game ... it looked more like the Nuremberg rally !

I am exaggerating of course but there's something about the air in Gujarat ...

At least no dengue.

 

[FPresidential]

We would respect you more too, if you set aside your fake 'British objectivity' and admit that you hate India and Hindus. It's all too obvious in your posts. Why don't you say it openly?

Hindutva, lets not use Hindus as human shield in an attempt to hide Hindutva bigotry.

Just as the world hate Nazi one should hate Hindutva.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Hindutva, lets not use Hindus as human shield in an attempt to hide Hindutva bigotry.

Just as the world hate Nazi one should hate Hindutva.

But Pakistanis do hate Hindus. They were 22% at the time of partition. Now they are merely 2%.
Same as other minorities like Sikhs/Ahmaddiya Muslims. Ahmaddiya Muslims have a Pakistan state sanctioned laws against them and cannot practice there religion and practices freely. That is exactly what Nazis did to Jews.
And Jews, there is not a single Jew living in Pakistan.

 

[FPresidential]

But Pakistanis do hate Hindus. They were 22% at the time of partition. Now they are merely 2%.
Same as other minorities like Sikhs/Ahmaddiya Muslims. Ahmaddiya Muslims have a Pakistan state sanctioned laws against them and cannot practice there religion and practices freely. That is exactly what Nazis did to Jews.
And Jews, there is not a single Jew living in Pakistan.

lol.

Partition of Pakistan happened in 71.

Talking about Hindus, not Ahmaddiya. Pak is a 3rd world country run by dictator, the min Pak has true democracy, your talking point will disappear, whereas Bharat has elected a Bigot.

Sikhs aren't killed by Pakistani but Hindutva agents

Lol, No Jew lived in most of the Arab or Muslim countries unless they could remove them from their homes dead or alive.

Your post reek of hatred toward Muslim, mine always is filled with hatred for Hinutva. Not Hindus

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Translation - I have no answer.

So let me try again, you said Ahmedabad crowd hurdled abusive behavior towards Pak cricket team. All I am asking for is to quote some examples of such abuses?

I don't need your respect but pls answer my question. Since you opened a thread about a topic...I am sure you must have done some research.

These have already been answered by MiG in the cricket forum thread, I don't see any need to have the same conversation in two different places. But if you like I can post his answer here. Or I can link to his post.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

lol.

Partition of Pakistan happened in 71.

Talking about Hindus, not Ahmaddiya. Pak is a 3rd world country run by dictator, the min Pak has true democracy, your talking point will disappear, whereas Bharat has elected a Bigot.

Sikhs aren't killed by Pakistani but Hindutva agents

Lol, No Jew lived in most of the Arab or Muslim countries unless they could remove them from their homes dead or alive.

Your post reek of hatred toward Muslim, mine always is filled with hatred for Hinutva. Not Hindus

The ones that are killed are not Sikhs, they are Khalistanis. They can never be Sikhs as we Indian Sikhs don't consider them one. Pakistanis are hated in India because of there state policy of terrorism against India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

1. I am not a Hindu, I am a Proud Sikh of Bharat Mata.

2. Regarding Glee at Pakistan burning, off course we will because here is a nation hell bent on destruction of India, causing immense harm of the life of people of India. Pakistan is an existential threat for India. Why would we not celebrate its downfall as a nation.

3. Did I claimed that there is no hatred in India for Pakistan ? I am pretty transparent and straightforward in telling you that there is immense hatred in India towards Pakistan, and it increased hundred fold after Mumbai Terrorist attacks.

You asked for root cause of the hatred, I have clearly specified and explain what is the reason of hatred. It is because of Terrorism emanating from Pakistan.

If Pakistan was hell bent on destruction of Bharat then they would just nuke the place. That's the only way they can destroy a much bigger country with far more resources. Pakistan is not capable of hurting Bharat, and to do so would be counter-productive. It's well circulated among hindutvas that rather than end Pakistan, it would be better to keep it permanently weak and sick, something your govt has the resources to do, and your people often say it is worth India suffering small losses if Pakistan is damaged indefinitely.

These are policies your own posters have often described here, and your post which I quoted describes exactly that. Just own it and show you are a proud hindutva.

Incidentally I never said anything about you being a Hindu or a Sikh, this is just you offering information for your own reasons. There's no way for anyone to know who is Sikh or Hindu on an anonymous forum, but we can make a judgement on when hindutva doctrines are being spouted.

 

[Rajdeep]

These have already been answered by MiG in the cricket forum thread, I don't see any need to have the same conversation in two different places. But if you like I can post his answer here. Or I can link to his post.

But you started this thread in TPS, so a bit of a context would have been good rather than making blanket sweeping statements. If I have to read it in cricket section, then what purpose does this thread even serves?

Also, pls visit that thread in cricket section and see many Pakistani fans also saying exactly what I am saying i.e these booing and slogans are non issue. The bottomline is Pak team couldn't defeat India and buck stops there.

Your team has been defeated badly on saturday in Narendra Modi Stadium...accept the defeat and move on mate

 

[FPresidential]

The ones that are killed are not Sikhs, they are Khalistanis. They can never be Sikhs as we Indian Sikhs don't consider them one. Pakistanis are hated in India because of there state policy of terrorism against India.

As a Sikh yourself, you should know better, you do not get to decide who is Sikh and who is not.

Khalistanis can be Sikh because they are.

I feel like y'all just type anything and expect everyone to believe it

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But you started this thread in TPS, so a bit of a context would have been good rather than making blanket sweeping statements. If I have to read it in cricket section, then what purpose does this thread even serves?

Also, pls go to that thread in cricket section thread and see many Pakistani fans also saying exactly what I am saying i.e these booing and cheering is non issue. The bottomline is Pak team couldn't defeat India.

Your team has been defeated badly on staurday in Narendra Modi Stadium...accept the defeat and move on mate

But that is the whole point of making this thread in Time Pass rather than the cricket forum. If you go back to the OP you can clearly see it was an attempt to understand the city of Ahmedabad and the roots of hatred, not one solitary cricket game. I think you are trying to focus on the cricket side because the questions being asked are making you uncomfortable. Not surprising considering what happened in Gujarat in 2002 where your current PM orchestrated the mob riots which led to hindutvas rampaging through a Muslim district and slaughtering over 1000 people including Ehsan Jafri, a former minister who has chopped to pieces with ceremonial swords.

 

[cricketjoshila]

ISRO scientists are pretty humble, people on social media are lecturing and mocking others when mission was successful is stupid. Happiness is different from mocking others.

Who was mocking whom?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Hindutva, lets not use Hindus as human shield in an attempt to hide Hindutva bigotry.

Just as the world hate Nazi one should hate Hindutva.

Let's not use Hindutva in an attempt to hide your hatred for Hindus and India and your bigotry.

Just as Nazis used the shield of Zionism to hide his hatred towards the Jews and justify his genocide, some people use the shield of Hindutva.

 

[Rajdeep]

But that is the whole point of making this thread in Time Pass rather than the cricket forum. If you go back to the OP you can clearly see it was an attempt to understand the city of Ahmedabad and the roots of hatred, not one solitary cricket game. I think you are trying to focus on the cricket side because the questions being asked are making you uncomfortable. Not surprising considering what happened in Gujarat in 2002 where your current PM orchestrated the mob riots which led to hindutvas rampaging through a Muslim district and slaughtering over 1000 people including Ehsan Jafri, a former minister who has chopped to pieces with ceremonial swords.

Yes the Godhra train burning did happen in 2002 where fanatical Islamists burned alive a bunch of hindu pilgrimages inside a train. That was the trigger point of the 2002 Gujarat riots. Modi's role subsequently was accessed by Supreme Court's SIT committe and was given a clean chit due to no evidence. I am sure all of this is already known to you. So what are you trying to ask on this thread, I am still unclear. Can you pls explicitly tell us that this is what I am asking Rajdeep and can you pls answer.

 

[gani999]

Hindutva, lets not use Hindus as human shield in an attempt to hide Hindutva bigotry.

Just as the world hate Nazi one should hate Hindutva.

Your definition of Hindutva is clearly the wrong one that is pontificated by islamofascists and left wing hindu losers on cyberspace. Let's not get into that.
If you think that shouting 'jai shri ram' at the Pak team amounts to hindu fascism at work, then shouting 'nara e takbeer', and describing Indo-Pak matches as jihad, amounts to islamofascism towards the Indian team as well. Fascists who dish it out shouldn't complain if the other side responds with fascism. It's called playing the victim card.

I doubt the Indian team, should it ever play in Pakistan, will be showered with verses of love by the Pak audience. The hatred is going to be very visible. Don't tell me it won't happen.

For now let's admit that Indians and Pakistanis hate each other for the most part, and the hatred is very mutual. Don't come back saying Pakistanis are justified and Indians aren't. Hatred can never be justified.

 

[FPresidential]

Let's not use Hindutva in an attempt to hide your hatred for Hindus and India and your bigotry.

Just as Nazis used the shield of Zionism to hide his hatred towards the Jews and justify his genocide, some people use the shield of Hindutva.

I love it, I knew there would be at least one who would post a comment like this.

Please find any post of mine that shows hatred toward Hindus? I'll wait.

I have specifically said, Hindutva and I have praised Hindus. I have always been careful in distinguish between Hindutva and Hindus, as there are many Hindus on this forum who despise Hindutva ideology, probably more than anyone else, and your fellow followers Hindutva label them as "Libera" because y'all haven't figure out how to get rid of them, yet.

Last time I checked, only Hindtuva were promoting Aparthies and Genocide of Palestine on this forum and the rest of India, which y'all mask it as 'national interest"

Highlight where have or any other muslim on this forum is promoting Genocide of Hindus, even Hindutva genocide is unacceptable.

Thanks for giving an opportunity to highlight the above

 

[FPresidential]

Your definition of Hindutva is clearly the wrong one that is pontificated by islamofascists and left wing hindu losers on cyberspace. Let's not get into that.
If you think that shouting 'jai shri ram' at the Pak team amounts to hindu fascism at work, then shouting 'nara e takbeer', and describing Indo-Pak matches as jihad, amounts to islamofascism towards the Indian team as well. Fascists who dish it out shouldn't complain if the other side responds with fascism. It's called playing the victim card.

I doubt the Indian team, should it ever play in Pakistan, will be showered with verses of love by the Pak audience. The hatred is going to be very visible. Don't tell me it won't happen.

For now let's admit that Indians and Pakistanis hate each other for the most part, and the hatred is very mutual. Don't come back saying Pakistanis are justified and Indians aren't. Hatred can never be justified.

I agree the highlighted

My definition of Hindutva isn't wrong, it is for everyone to see, I only see Hindutva getting out of shape when their bigotry is highlighted and unable to defend bigotry.

 

[FPresidential]

Your definition of Hindutva is clearly the wrong one that is pontificated by islamofascists and left wing hindu losers on cyberspace. Let's not get into that.
If you think that shouting 'jai shri ram' at the Pak team amounts to hindu fascism at work, then shouting 'nara e takbeer', and describing Indo-Pak matches as jihad, amounts to islamofascism towards the Indian team as well. Fascists who dish it out shouldn't complain if the other side responds with fascism. It's called playing the victim card.

I doubt the Indian team, should it ever play in Pakistan, will be showered with verses of love by the Pak audience. The hatred is going to be very visible. Don't tell me it won't happen.

For now let's admit that Indians and Pakistanis hate each other for the most part, and the hatred is very mutual. Don't come back saying Pakistanis are justified and Indians aren't. Hatred can never be justified.

No they do not, have met many Hindus who do not hate Muslims or Pakistan, but I am yet to meet a Hindutva who doesn't hate Muslims and Pakistani.

 

[JaDed]

Who was mocking whom?

Am talking about social media

 

[gani999]

I agree the highlighted

My definition of Hindutva isn't wrong, it is for everyone to see, I only see Hindutva getting out of shape when their bigotry is highlighted and unable to defend bigotry.

As I have said, your definition of Hindutva is wrong. You are equating it with fascism, which it isn't. I wish I could explain but don't have the time.

And I'm not getting out of shape or whatever. Just pointing out the truth. You clearly are unable to understand the simple fact that fascism begets fascism. Maybe something else in you should get in shape then.

 

[Technics 1210]

We should not be giving a platform to RSS/Hindutva to propagate their hate and terror.

 

[FPresidential]

As I have said, your definition of Hindutva is wrong. You are equating it with fascism, which it isn't. I wish I could explain but don't have the time.

And I'm not getting out of shape or whatever. Just pointing out the truth. You clearly are unable to understand the simple fact that fascism begets fascism. Maybe something else in you should get in shape then.

LOL.

It is your prerogative to however you want to define Hindutva for yourself, but for the rest of us, we have seen physical and actual definition of Hindutva.

Fascism is ingrained in Hindutva ideology and trying to find any excuse for the rest to accept it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

No they do not, have met many Hindus who do not hate Muslims or Pakistan, but I am yet to meet a Hindutva who doesn't hate Muslims and Pakistani.

I am a hindutva follower and I don't hate Muslims at all, in fact I admire their qualities. Their awareness of muslim history, their civilizational memory, their long term vision and their global brotherhood. I only wish that hindus imbibed these qualities. Most hindus are self hating or in amnesia and get embarrassed of they see an assertive or proud hindu.

I don't hate Pakistan either, used to defend Pakistan in the past, although have lost interest in its people. They have been a massive let down. I expected Pakistan state to do something, even if it was for posturing, when India changed the status quo of Kashmir (their so called jugular vein) few years back. But the most disappointment was how they didn't rise to defend Imran Khan (him being incarcerated is beneficial for India), after that Pakistanis don't have my admiration ( not that it matters).

Happy to answer your questions on Hindutva. It is inclusive and confident version of Hinduism.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I love it, I knew there would be at least one who would post a comment like this.

Please find any post of mine that shows hatred toward Hindus? I'll wait.

I have specifically said, Hindutva and I have praised Hindus. I have always been careful in distinguish between Hindutva and Hindus, as there are many Hindus on this forum who despise Hindutva ideology, probably more than anyone else, and your fellow followers Hindutva label them as "Libera" because y'all haven't figure out how to get rid of them, yet.

Last time I checked, only Hindtuva were promoting Aparthies and Genocide of Palestine on this forum and the rest of India, which y'all mask it as 'national interest"

Highlight where have or any other muslim on this forum is promoting Genocide of Hindus, even Hindutva genocide is unacceptable.

Thanks for giving an opportunity to highlight the above

As i said, you hide your bigotry towards Hindus by using the term Hindutva.

You carefully use the word Hindutva to justify the hatred you spew just like many use the word Zionism to justify their hatred towards Jews.

Hindutva is the state of being a Hindu.A cultural and religious identity of being Hindu

5000 years have gone by and no one has been able to remove Hindus or their culture.

Israel has widespread support in India because they supported and helped India at the time of its need. Just like Russia has widespread support in India.

And most Indians will be the last ones to condemn action and use of force against terrorists and their enablers. We have suffered similar attacks ourselves and when we retaliated similar victim card was played by the same people.

It doesn't work here.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am a hindutva follower and I don't hate Muslims at all, in fact I admire their qualities. Their awareness of muslim history, their civilizational memory, their long term vision and their global brotherhood. I only wish that hindus imbibed these qualities. Most hindus are self hating or in amnesia and get embarrassed of they see an assertive or proud hindu.

I don't hate Pakistan either, used to defend Pakistan in the past, although have lost interest in its people. They have been a massive let down. I expected Pakistan state to do something, even if it was for posturing, when India changed the status quo of Kashmir (their so called jugular vein) few years back. But the most disappointment was how they didn't rise to defend Imran Khan (him being incarcerated is beneficial for India), after that Pakistanis don't have my admiration ( not that it matters).

Happy to answer your questions on Hindutva. It is inclusive and confident version of Hinduism.

Pakistan has proven to be a nothing State, neither this nor that. Neither Islamic, not secular and not Hindu (although not sure if that is technically possible).

It's even a pathetic police state, must be the only police state in the world where crime and corruption runs rampant and they only people they jail are their former heroes. I can say this with some authority as I speak as a neutral Brit, I have no skin in this game.

No wonder hindutvas are delighted to keep it limping along, no nation could serve their purposes more faithfully. The only problem is Bharat is too tight fisted, they leave the door open for Uncle Sam or China to jump in and buy some assets. But these are third world problems, perhaps by 2050 a Shining Bharat will be able to swat aside all competitors.

 

[rhony]

Thank you for an honest answer. Another Bharat poster @rhony has recently posted similar assessment, expressing much glee at Pakistan burning, and I have heard many hindutvas espousing this view.

If this isn't hatred I don't know what is. But I agree with you that Pakistan is doing a good job in self destruction, that is always likely to happen when you have martial law masquerading as democracy. The problem with this of course is that it's no longer the people making national decisions, it's one leader who might decide to sell the country down the road if the offer is attractive enough.

I think your view is a bit bigoted. Bharat was obligated to support the formation of Bangladesh because of the influx of millions of refugees. Pakistan, after that, has been on a relentless pursuit to break India through support of insurgency in Kashmir, Punjab, North East, Maoists etc. I think India likes this status quo. Pakistan doing its own things and India it's own. Indians are fine with no bilateral relations or trade. Pakistanis should also get to terms with that and follow it's own development path.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think your view is a bit bigoted. Bharat was obligated to support the formation of Bangladesh because of the influx of millions of refugees. Pakistan, after that, has been on a relentless pursuit to break India through support of insurgency in Kashmir, Punjab, North East, Maoists etc. I think India likes this status quo. Pakistan doing its own things and India it's own. Indians are fine with no bilateral relations or trade. Pakistanis should also get to terms with that and follow it's own development path.

What was bigoted about what I said?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Pakistan has proven to be a nothing State, neither this nor that. Neither Islamic, not secular and not Hindu (although not sure if that is technically possible).

It's even a pathetic police state, must be the only police state in the world where crime and corruption runs rampant and they only people they jail are their former heroes. I can say this with some authority as I speak as a neutral Brit, I have no skin in this game.

No wonder hindutvas are delighted to keep it limping along, no nation could serve their purposes more faithfully. The only problem is Bharat is too tight fisted, they leave the door open for Uncle Sam or China to jump in and buy some assets. But these are third world problems, perhaps by 2050 a Shining Bharat will be able to swat aside all competitors.

It is not just hindutva followers, even the indian seculars (so called) are happy to see Pakistan in a poor state. Indian seculars are useful for Pakistanis but are not their friends or well wishers.

Every country loves to have fond memories of itself and a grand vision of the future. Even if it is not based on reality. For some it is a Shining India, but for me it is a Hindu Rashtra (on the ground, not on paper). We are moving towards that ( I am a mere foot soldier), although the resistance is not from any external enemy, but from internal enemies opposed to our ideology. It is this enemy which should be purged. Pakistan can take care of itself.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Am talking about social media

Am talking about social media

The partially successful Chandrayaan 2 was also mocked on social media.

Minister from our neighbourhood mocked it.

So let's not go there.

 

[rhony]

What was bigoted about what I said?

"Expressing much glee at Pakistan burning"

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think your view is a bit bigoted. Bharat was obligated to support the formation of Bangladesh because of the influx of millions of refugees. Pakistan, after that, has been on a relentless pursuit to break India through support of insurgency in Kashmir, Punjab, North East, Maoists etc. I think India likes this status quo. Pakistan doing its own things and India it's own. Indians are fine with no bilateral relations or trade. Pakistanis should also get to terms with that and follow it's own development path.

I think i agree with the last part regarding the bilateral relations.

Just let there be a status quo.

Don't even comment on each other, let alone interfere.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

"Expressing much glee at Pakistan burning"

That was me describing the bigoted gloating of the person I was quoting. The whole post reeked of hatred, but perhaps you just glossed over it. Even so I praised the poster for not sugar coating his words and speaking openly.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think i agree with the last part regarding the bilateral relations.

Just let there be a status quo.

Don't even comment on each other, let alone interfere.

This will be your last post as a respected guest on this Pakistan based site then joshila bhai? Wishing you well in your future endeavours on exclusive Bharati forums.

 

[FPresidential]

As i said, you hide your bigotry towards Hindus by using the term Hindutva.

You carefully use the word Hindutva to justify the hatred you spew just like many use the word Zionism to justify their hatred towards Jews.

Hindutva is the state of being a Hindu.A cultural and religious identity of being Hindu

5000 years have gone by and no one has been able to remove Hindus or their culture.

Israel has widespread support in India because they supported and helped India at the time of its need. Just like Russia has widespread support in India.

And most Indians will be the last ones to condemn action and use of force against terrorists and their enablers. We have suffered similar attacks ourselves and when we retaliated similar victim card was played by the same people.

It doesn't work here.

LOL

Describing what is not even there.

Jews existed before Zionism, Jews and Muslim lived in peace before Zionism decided to forcefully remove Palestinian and Christian out of their homes in Palestine. So please try again, Thanks.

Please tell me, how and where have I ever shown bigotry toward the religion of Hindu, I'll wait, but i can show plenty of your post where you have defended Hindutva bigots.

If I was a bigot I'd be defending bigotry against Hindus just as you defend bigotry of Hindutva.

The highlighted part, a mental prison, a tell tell sign of a person who is on the quest of vengeance.

Keep them coming

 

[FPresidential]

I am a hindutva follower and I don't hate Muslims at all, in fact I admire their qualities. Their awareness of muslim history, their civilizational memory, their long term vision and their global brotherhood. I only wish that hindus imbibed these qualities. Most hindus are self hating or in amnesia and get embarrassed of they see an assertive or proud hindu.

I don't hate Pakistan either, used to defend Pakistan in the past, although have lost interest in its people. They have been a massive let down. I expected Pakistan state to do something, even if it was for posturing, when India changed the status quo of Kashmir (their so called jugular vein) few years back. But the most disappointment was how they didn't rise to defend Imran Khan (him being incarcerated is beneficial for India), after that Pakistanis don't have my admiration ( not that it matters).

Happy to answer your questions on Hindutva. It is inclusive and confident version of Hinduism.

Doubt about inclusiveness but confident they are.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Doubt about inclusiveness but confident they are.

Very inclusive of all castes. In fact they were among the early reformers. Something Allama Iqbal would be proud of when he lamented: Yoon tau Syed bhi ho Mirza bhi ho , Afghan bhi ho sabhi kuch ho, Batao tau Musalmaan bhi ho

Very inclusive of religions, as long as their loyalty is towards the homeland. In that sense it is a very secular ideology. Hindutvas love and idolize many Muslims who show loyalty to the homeland. And that is why it reminds Indian muslims that they were hindus, one of us. Not exclusivist or supremacist, but all encompassing. Only criteria is loyalty to the motherland. Secular and cultural nationalism.

 

[FPresidential]

Most Hindutva and Zionism lump Hindus with Hindutva and Jews with Zionism for a reason, that is to use them as a shield to defend their bigotry and they'll fight to hide any distinction between Hindutva from Hindus and Zionist from Jews

Whereas 99% of Muslims fight against Muslim radicals to preserve their true Islamic identity.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Most Hindutva and Zionism lump Hindus with Hindutva and Jews with Zionism for a reason, that is to use them as a shield to defend their bigotry and they'll fight to hide any distinction between Hindutva from Hindus and Zionist from Jews

Whereas 99% of Muslims fight against Muslim radicals to preserve their true Islamic identity.

You are really mistaken about Hindutva. In fact Hinduism deserves a lot of criticism than Hindutva (which is a reformed Hinduism).

For example, a white supremacist will say if you have one drop of black blood you are not white.
An Islamist will say Shia Kaffir, Ahmedia Kaffir and so on.
Supremacists are exclusivists.

But Hindutva says, hey, Indian Muslim, you are a Hindu!. Indian Christian, you are a Hindu!. You are one of us. Inclusive. Quite the opposite of the supremacists or islamists.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are really mistaken about Hindutva. In fact Hinduism deserves a lot of criticism than Hindutva (which is a reformed Hinduism).

For example, a white supremacist will say if you have one drop of black blood you are not white.
An Islamist will say Shia Kaffir, Ahmedia Kaffir and so on.
Supremacists are exclusivists.

But Hindutva says, hey, Indian Muslim, you are a Hindu!. Indian Christian, you are a Hindu!. You are one of us. Inclusive. Quite the opposite of the supremacists or islamists.

If only this were true, then we would never have had angry protests against love jihad. The inclusive Hindu would just welcome the Musalman to the fold.

 

[CricketCartoons]

If only this were true, then we would never have had angry protests against love jihad. The inclusive Hindu would just welcome the Musalman to the fold.

It is the Musalman which doesn't accept that he is a hindu. He is exclusivist, not Hindutva, which is all welcoming.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It is the Musalman which doesn't accept that he is a hindu. He is exclusivist, not Hindutva, which is all welcoming.

So why is that a problem? A true hindutva who understands the great and inclusive traditions of the ancient Hindu civilisations has no problem accepting exclusivists either. Otherwise what is separates the Hindu from the rest? You are either inclusive or not. The whole of creation is one and the same.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

As a Sikh yourself, you should know better, you do not get to decide who is Sikh and who is not.

Khalistanis can be Sikh because they are.

I feel like y'all just type anything and expect everyone to believe it

i love that y'all try to preach other people about their religion but when same is done with y'all.. we know the end result.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

i love that y'all try to preach other people about their religion but when same is done with y'all.. we know the end result.

He might just be trying to give you some pointers as to Sikh religion since you probably aren't familiar with it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

So why is that a problem? A true hindutva who understands the great and inclusive traditions of the ancient Hindu civilisations has no problem accepting exclusivists either. Otherwise what is separates the Hindu from the rest? You are either inclusive or not. The whole of creation is one and the same.

Just like tolerant don't tolerate fascists, secularists don't accept communalists, inclusivists don't accept exclusivists.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just like tolerant don't tolerate fascists, secularists don't accept communalists, inclusivists don't accept exclusivists.

Then that means they aren't inclusive. They are no different to every other self-proclaimed inclusives if they are putting conditions first. Even the most strict Saudis will have hindutvas living and working in their country as long as their idolatry and other displays of faith don't clash or contradict publicly with Islamic religion.

For example, were a Hindu to perform pranam to a Sheikh, it would not be objected harshly as it is not an offense to do so, even though the Sheikh may feel uncomfortable on witnessing it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Then that means they aren't inclusive. They are no different to every other self-proclaimed inclusives if they are putting conditions first. Even the most strict Saudis will have hindutvas living and working in their country as long as their idolatry and other displays of faith don't clash or contradict publicly with Islamic religion.

For example, were a Hindu to perform pranam to a Sheikh, it would not be objected harshly as it is not an offense to do so, even though the Sheikh may feel uncomfortable on witnessing it.

Your fundamentals and first principles are weak.

It is not fascism to be fascist with a fascist.
It is not intolerance to be intolerant with an intolerant.
It is not exclusivism to be exclusivist with an exclusivist.

Because otherwise the fascists, the intolerant and the exclusivist wins.

Many people don't get this basic concept, but expect you to know it Cpt.

Signing off.

 

[FPresidential]

i love that y'all try to preach other people about their religion but when same is done with y'all.. we know the end result.

What makes anyone who is supporter of Khalistan not Sikh, are they not practicing the same religion? lol

Looks as if you are positioning yourself as Sikh.

 

[Varun]

I don't disagree with the schedule. What I'm asking is why the likes of you would 'much rather have Pakistan play in the quiet part of town', when they themselves didn't complain about what happened at Ahmedabad. Like all others, the Pak team seem to be a professional side who take hostile audiences in their stride. So why the concern from 'liberals' like yourself?
The last thing the Pak team seems to need is this sort of mollycoddling from certain Indians.

PCB files complaint with ICC over ‘inappropriate conduct’ towards Babar and Co. during India vs Pakistan clash at WC

PCB files complaint with ICC over ‘inappropriate conduct’ towards Babar and Co. during India vs Pakistan clash at WC

Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) filed a complaint regarding inappropriate conduct targeted at members of the Pakistani cricket team during the Indo-Pak match.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Your fundamentals and first principles are weak.

It is not fascism to be fascist with a fascist.
It is not intolerance to be intolerant with an intolerant.
It is not exclusivism to be exclusivist with an exclusivist.

Because otherwise the fascists, the intolerant and the exclusivist wins.

Many people don't get this basic concept, but expect you to know it Cpt.

Signing off.

Good time to sign off CC, otherwise someone might ask the question how one could decide on a merit for judging intolerance. Or Facism. Or exclusivism. At the end of the day the nation reflects it's reality and everyone sees it.

Don't feel shy, pop in again when you feel necessary and we'll see how things are progressing.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Recently one of the famous gujju vlogger uploaded a video that in Canada anyone can take advantage of food banks, he was boasting that how he gets stuff free while having a full time job. Utterly shameful behaviour.

As far as Indians in general being petty and hateful, it's due to inferiority complex. We Indians try too hard to be acknowledged by outsiders, Westerners know this and they tactfully wish Indians Diwali and Vaisakhi etc and do some photo OPs to please thirsty Indians. Indians can't help it lol.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Good time to sign off CC, otherwise someone might ask the question how one could decide on a merit for judging intolerance. Or Facism. Or exclusivism. At the end of the day the nation reflects it's reality and everyone sees it.

Don't feel shy, pop in again when you feel necessary and we'll see how things are progressing.

I run 4 miles before the sun rises so I need to sleep early. Sorry if you thought I was dodging you.

Already answered how to decide on exclusivism and inclusiveness. Former excludes people based on differences, no matter how minor. Latter looks for similarities and finds common ground.

Abrahhamic philosophies accentuate differences, no matter how small. That is why Jews, Christians and Muslims have been the fiercest enemies, when there differences are minor, and their similarities many. Even within each religion, a small difference is enough to declare them a sect and sometimes enemies. Think about it. Shias and Sunnis are hardly different. They believe in one God, one Book, one Prophet. Yet because of very minor difference, they are divided. This is what exclusivism does.

It gets boring when such basic concepts have to be explained, and there is no joy in argument. Used to love discussing with aKher/enkidu, never seen anyone come close to him. Most of the posters here have remained on a very superficial level, where they are good for trolling, but poor for having discussion and exchange of ideas. Feel free to win the argument.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I run 4 miles before the sun rises so I need to sleep early. Sorry if you thought I was dodging you.

Already answered how to decide on exclusivism and inclusiveness. Former excludes people based on differences, no matter how minor. Latter looks for similarities and finds common ground.

Abrahhamic philosophies accentuate differences, no matter how small. That is why Jews, Christians and Muslims have been the fiercest enemies, when there differences are minor, and their similarities many. Even within each religion, a small difference is enough to declare them a sect and sometimes enemies. Think about it. Shias and Sunnis are hardly different. They believe in one God, one Book, one Prophet. Yet because of very minor difference, they are divided. This is what exclusivism does.

It gets boring when such basic concepts have to be explained, and there is no joy in argument. Used to love discussing with aKher/enkidu, never seen anyone come close to him. Most of the posters here have remained on a very superficial level, where they are good for trolling, but poor for having discussion and exchange of ideas. Feel free to win the argument.

aKher/enkidu was indeed a superb poster, I'm sure he/she has found somewhere to share their wisdom. But the world is a big place and this is as good a place as any to find common ground. Or blare propaganda for that matter, but we can't blame the home if an intruder comes in and wrecks the place.

 

[CricketCartoons]

aKher/enkidu was indeed a superb poster, I'm sure he/she has found somewhere to share their wisdom. But the world is a big place and this is as good a place as any to find common ground. Or blare propaganda for that matter, but we can't blame the home if an intruder comes in and wrecks the place.

He is still active somewhere, and I follow him. Disagree with the quality of Time Pass. The Indian contingent wasn't good even then, but at least the Pakistanis were good. Really sorry for the kind of people you have to face from my side of the border.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He is still active somewhere, and I follow him. Disagree with the quality of Time Pass. The Indian contingent wasn't good even then, but at least the Pakistanis were good. Really sorry for the kind of people you have to face from my side of the border.

There are actually some very good posters from your side of the border, I marvel at their restraint and generosity. But having lived through different stages in life, I find it hard to ignore the anday wala burger stand in favour of the fine dining establishments. Both have their place and your past will always have a piece of your heart.

 

[ex-q-zit]

I am surprised you created a thread to understand this. Its the same reason Pakistani fans were abusing Indian team after Pakistan won the 2017 CT. North India is more sensitive towards religion than teh south because Noth India was more effected by Partition than the south. Also in the south most minorities irrespective of their religion speak, dress and respect the local culture and language. the barriers is much narrower in south.

As an analogy you can see that people from Balochistan will hate India lesser than the Punjabi muslims who were more affacted by Partition and the violence that followed. So if you look at Pakistani Punjab you will find teh reason for hatred which will be the same for most states in North India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am surprised you created a thread to understand this. Its the same reason Pakistani fans were abusing Indian team after Pakistan won the 2017 CT. North India is more sensitive towards religion than teh south because Noth India was more effected by Partition than the south. Also in the south most minorities irrespective of their religion speak, dress and respect the local culture and language. the barriers is much narrower in south.

As an analogy you can see that people from Balochistan will hate India lesser than the Punjabi muslims who were more affacted by Partition and the violence that followed. So if you look at Pakistani Punjab you will find teh reason for hatred which will be the same for most states in North India.

As I said previously, I only have a minimal interest in cricket these days, and I didn't actually watch the 2017 CT so am not aware of any abuse of Indian team by Pakistan fans. Can you give an example?

 

[RexRex]

Happy to answer your questions on Hindutva. It is inclusive and confident version of Hinduism.

How is the confident version of Hinduism aka Hindutva different from the previous version of Hinduism ? That seems to abstract a statement without any elaboration or real-life examples of how one is better than the other.

 

[ex-q-zit]

As I said previously, I only have a minimal interest in cricket these days, and I didn't actually watch the 2017 CT so am not aware of any abuse of Indian team by Pakistan fans. Can you give an example?

I posted a YT link og Pak fans mocking India regarding parentage but was deleted. You can just search in YT you will find it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

How is the confident version of Hinduism aka Hindutva different from the previous version of Hinduism ? That seems to abstract a statement without any elaboration or real-life examples of how one is better than the other.

So you agree that it is the more inclusive version, and only question if it is more confident than hinduism?

 

[Ml12345]

Hindutva, lets not use Hindus as human shield in an attempt to hide Hindutva bigotry.

Just as the world hate Nazi one should hate Hindutva.

For that to happen, Hindus will have to work as hard as Muslims have to earn the reputation they have worldwide today

 

[FPresidential]

For that to happen, Hindus will have to work as hard as Muslims have to earn the reputation they have worldwide today

Which is?

You must be Hindutva and if you were Hindu then you woundn’t get upset.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Which is?

You must be Hindutva and if you were Hindu then you woundn’t get upset.

Why are you comparing Nazism with Hindutva? Care to mention the similarities?

One was extreme race based nationalism leading to holocaust and world war. Other is a secular nationalism with inclusive ideology, the kind of which every nation should have.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I posted a YT link og Pak fans mocking India regarding parentage but was deleted. You can just search in YT you will find it.

You think I'm going to search for a video which you claim is out there to prove your point? How quaint.

 

[Ml12345]

Hindutva, lets not use Hindus as human shield in an attempt to hide Hindutva bigotry.

Just as the world hate Nazi one should hate Hindutva.

Good luck with that. Everyone is bowing in front of Modi including your middle eastern brethren (who are also members of OIC)

 

[Ml12345]

You think I'm going to search for a video which you claim is out there to prove your point? How quaint.

You would rather stay disillusioned

 

[FPresidential]

Good luck with that. Everyone is bowing in front of Modi including your middle eastern brethren (who are also members of OIC)

Bro, if you will continue to post sound bites in an attempt to make yourself appear relevant then tag someone who will indulge in such discussio.

I mean, what is that you trying to achieve by highlighting a sound bite? does it make you feel better now? As if a dictator bowing down will make Modi less of a Hindutva, lol

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You would rather stay disillusioned

I would rather see proof since I suspect this is either fake news or highly exaggerated.

 

[ex-q-zit]

I would rather see proof since I suspect this is either fake news or highly exaggerated.

Just check post#625 in the below thread

Disrespectful boos heard in Ahmedabad for Babar Azam during the toss for India vs Pakistan ICC World Cup group stage match, 2023

What was waqar said about Hindu is not a 90 thing bro. Ok let's forget all things for a minutes what your opinion about rizwan offered Namaz in the stadium( when match is ongoing ) ?? Give me honest answer I don't think it was illegal or wrong, to be honest. Let me know if it is illegal...

ppforum.pakpassion.net

 

[Justcrazy]

Modi & Netanyahooo are serial killers just look at their eyes.. they would kill 1 million Muslims on a day & show no remorse they’ll have dinner that night as if nothing’s happened.

Modi is a politician , following RSS ideology , but Netanyahoo is pure evil incarnate. He literally is a satan worshiper.