Had chuckers been banned, would Shahid Afridi had been amongst the top spinners of Pakistan?

[Major]

When Afridi used to play international cricket, I was a big critic of him because of the way he batted and his bowling stats showed a wicket per match.

However, one thing I realized that Afridi was competing with chuckers, who were setting a standard required by spinners.

Afridi took a wicket per match. In 398 Odis he picked 395 wickets at an average of 34.51

If you look at Shadab Khan, he has 62 wickets in 48 matches.

But Shahid Afridi was always a much better spinner than Shadab is currently. Afridi would never bowl a full tose and would rarely miss his length. And he had different varieties, infact even when minnows were able to get us all out for a low total, Afridi was able to take the match away from minnow oppositions with his bowling alone as it was quite difficult.

I believe, if Afridi was bowling in the current times, he would had been amongest the best.

Do you guys think that with the competition of chucker's, he has had poor stats?

 

[MenInG]

Can you name those chuckers to make it clear.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Afridi was a good ODI bowler between 2004-2011. Ajmal and Hafeez were consistently playing only 2011 onwards. I'd you are suggesting there were no spinners who were better than the 2011-2015 version of Adridi, then I'm not sure Pakistan would have done better than even minnows in that period.

 

[Major]

Can you name those chuckers to make it clear.

Saeed Ajmal and Hafeez at international.

However, there was always competition from domestic chukers like Adnan Rasool.

Yes I understand by those times laws they were not chuckers by ICC, but by todays laws they were

 

[Major]

Afridi was a good ODI bowler between 2004-2011. Ajmal and Hafeez were consistently playing only 2011 onwards. I'd you are suggesting there were no spinners who were better than the 2011-2015 version of Adridi, then I'm not sure Pakistan would have done better than even minnows in that period.

Pakistan never really focused on Afridis bowling that much. If we had a situation where chuckers were stopped back in the early 2000s, than i believe guys like Afridi would had focussed more on their bowling.

 

[Savak]

Afridi started off as a mediocre spinner, in the middle he got better and towards the end as his body gave away, his bowling fell to pieces.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Afridi's bowling prime was actually 2002-2011.

But Inzamam was an extremely poor captain of spin who only believed in using spinners as a defensive option and containers and fillers which is why under him we barely played any specialist spinner and hence Malik and Afridi were used everywhere in the same role. So from 2003-2007, his bowling never really appealed as something outstanding and Afridi was only seen as someone who would a bit of both in all 3 departments. In 2001-03, we probably had our most talented guys in the most volatile atmosphere and hardly played as a team which resulted in poor performances.

It was only with the advent of T20 cricket that Afridi's bowling came to the front, and even took the center stage ahead of his batting. His exploits in 07 and 09 wt20 proved he was more than a filler spinner but rather an attacking option and someone who could take four fers and fivers consistently.

By 2012, his body was aging out, and was probably 36 or 37, so we only got to see occasional sparks of class leg spin followed by troughs of mediocre games.

I think if there was no t20 cricket, his bowling wouldn't have come to attention and he would have had an even more underwhelming career.

 

[Zaz]

Afridi was a mediocre spinner He avged over 40 against most decent teams

He had a longer career than he shouldve tbh Every ex player looks better after retirement

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Afridi was a mediocre spinner He avged over 40 against most decent teams

He had a longer career than he shouldve tbh Every ex player looks better after retirement

“Afridi was a mediocre spinner” - yet majority of the times his wickets would be game changing. Most of his wickets were probably against the top batsmen that could take the game away from you. Afridi had the knack of getting out big players like De Villiers, Tendulkar, and most of the Indian top order.

Afridi played as an all rounder, his ODI bowling average is mid 30’s yet he’s considered mediocre but a player like Ben Stokes with a bowling average in 40’s will probably be in your ATG list*

 

[Colorblind Genius]

“Afridi was a mediocre spinner” - yet majority of the times his wickets would be game changing. Most of his wickets were probably against the top batsmen that could take the game away from you. Afridi had the knack of getting out big players like De Villiers, Tendulkar, and most of the Indian top order.

Afridi played as an all rounder, his ODI bowling average is mid 30’s yet he’s considered mediocre but a player like Ben Stokes with a bowling average in 40’s will probably be in your ATG list����*

Folks sunk themselves into stats, scorebooks and averages and run-rates and all that useless nonsense.

The only and only statistic that matters in cricket is winning man of the match awards because ONLY THIS RECORD truly indicates that how impactful of a player were you? And this is where Afridi wins.

If you are an impactful player, you win the matches for your team.

On other the hand, if you can score piles and piles of centuries and take millions of wickets but you haven't won enough man of the match awards to back it up, your stats could mean nothing.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Afridi’s bowling specialty was his 3 minutes or less overs, he used to go through his spell really quick. Bowling captains love that, opposition hates it as middle overs go so fast.

His bowling action was also beautiful, used to imitate him and Kumble. Both could bowl 100kmph at will.

 

[moghul]

Can you name those chuckers to make it clear.

The greatest them of all, Saeed Ajmal, another all time great chucker was/is Mohammad Hafeez. I seriously thinks Saeed Ajmal's record should be expunged . Taking all those wickets with an illegal action is cheating pure and simple.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

The greatest them of all, Saeed Ajmal, another all time great chucker was/is Mohammad Hafeez. I seriously thinks Saeed Ajmal's record should be expunged . Taking all those wickets with an illegal action is cheating pure and simple.

If Ajmal was a chucker than Murli threw a javelin.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't agree with this argument. Ajmal and Hafeez were not chuckers because for the majority of their careers their bowling action was considered legal according to ICC regulations. When ICC changed the goal-post, it became a different story. But downplaying their legacy is not right, especially after all the matches they won us.

As for Afridi, though his stats may not reflect this, I always believed him to be a revolutionary with ball. His batting is an entirely different story that caused long-standing damage to our cricket. But as a bowler what he was doing (especially during that golden 2011 phase) was outstanding and so different from everyone else. At times he was essentially a medium-pacer. It even inspired a bowler like Rashid Khan, whose style draws many parallels to Afridi. And that for me, deserves to be celebrated.

 

[Ashmal]

The greatest them of all, Saeed Ajmal, another all time great chucker was/is Mohammad Hafeez. I seriously thinks Saeed Ajmal's record should be expunged . Taking all those wickets with an illegal action is cheating pure and simple.

How can you say that all of Ajmal's wickets were taken with an illegal action..?

Didn't the same ICC tested and cleared his action in 2009

 

[Bewal Express]

Afridi could have been a very good leg spinner in all formats but he stayed on the Kumble path which worked for Kumble and for Afridi in some circumstances but didn't give him enough spin to beat the right handers outside edge. Afridis release is mostly from the front of the hand( Shadab has a similar release) and it doesn't generate enough side spin.

 

[JattMaula]

Lala is good spinner even without considering the qualifiers proposed by OP.

 

[moghul]

If Ajmal was a chucker than Murli threw a javelin.

Thats a separate discussion , we are talking about our own "award winning" chuckers. There is no "if" about Ajmal;s being a chucker.

 

[PakLFC]

Same can be asked about Murali too. Lala's action was fine, i did not ever see anything wrong with it. The ICC has always been pro white other then India coz they get most money from them.

 

[Mamoon]

Afridi was a very good bowler. He would regularly break partnerships in the middle-overs. He had decent variations as well and wasn’t easy to hit.

The 37 ball century in his second game ruined the direction of his career. Pakistan spent a decade trying to force him into a batsman when he did not have the ability to be a proper batsman.

The decision to convert him into an opener after that 37 ball century was disastrous for his career.

He should have always been viewed as a leg-spinner and a lower-order hitter and he would have done much better.

From 1997 to around the mid 2000s, he hardly focused on his bowling. It was only around 2008 onwards that he focused more on his bowling after Pakistani finally gave up on him as a top-order player, and no wonder he bowled really well from 2008 to 2013 when he still had some mileage left in his body,

Afridi could have taken 250+ Test wickets, maybe more.

 

[Mamoon]

Muralitharan, Ajmal and Hafeez are nothing but disgrace to the game of cricket.

Afridi was a better bowler than all of them, because he was a “bowler” to begin with.

The other three should have competed in the Olympics for javelin throws.

 

[msb314]

Afridi was a very good bowler. He would regularly break partnerships in the middle-overs. He had decent variations as well and wasn’t easy to hit.

The 37 ball century in his second game ruined the direction of his career. Pakistan spent a decade trying to force him into a batsman when he did not have the ability to be a proper batsman.

The decision to convert him into an opener after that 37 ball century was disastrous for his career.

He should have always been viewed as a leg-spinner and a lower-order hitter and he would have done much better.

From 1997 to around the mid 2000s, he hardly focused on his bowling. It was only around 2008 onwards that he focused more on his bowling after Pakistani finally gave up on him as a top-order player, and no wonder he bowled really well from 2008 to 2013 when he still had some mileage left in his body,

Afridi could have taken 250+ Test wickets, maybe more.

Not sure I agree…

Think Afridi was a good pinch opener - something Woolmer used to exploit when he was the coach from 2004-06

 

[Mercurial]

Afridi was more of a bowling all-rounder in ODIs, I never considered him a specialist ODI spinner. His strongest formats were Test and T20I. In T20Is he is a legendary spinner regardless of so called chuckers. While in Tests, he wasted himself, could have been one of our greatest spinners.