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Hardik Pandya vs Faheem Ashraf

Tyler Durden said:
Okay! I understand! But as a package, I would rate Jadeja as a better option than Ashwin in ODIs. Yes! Ashwin is better in tests though. This is just my perspective btw! Agree with you about the pace bowling all rounder culture! Had high hopes on this guy Pandya. But he is only turning into a big disappointment by the day. Irfan pathan as an allrounder looked much better than this hack. Don't you rate Robin Singh too?
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Irfan was a fast bowler and good enough batsman. Remember him scoring 80 odd opening the inning in a test match. He was a team man. I blame chappell for wasting him and his talent. Robin Singh was a medium pace bowler just like Sanjay Bangar both of them were average bowlers.
 
Both of falling into the same usual cricketing pattern. Whatever you average in domestic, is likely to be close to what you average in internationals. There are those who do great in domestic, and poor in internationals. Very, very few average substantially more in internationals than domestic. Pandya shows flashes of brilliance but is inconsistent, just how he must be in domestic given his averages.

Same with Fahim, people went on about his talent and how his numbers didn't justify him in domestic. And yet he's produced numbers similar to that in internationals. Fahim is even worse I don't think he's even used to responsibility with the bat, he's batting like a bowler who slogs down the order. Which makes sense, he's a bowler first that's what he knows best.

Both are talented, but both probably picked too early and not allowed enough time to dominate in domestic, and develop the mindset and the ability to regularly contribute with the bat and perform under pressure.

Another argument for Pandya over Ashraf is he's a luxury India can afford. They have a strong batting line up. A hitter down the order who can score quick who can bowl a bit can be of use. Especially given India don't have the plethora of part time bowling options they used to. He's not the clutch finisher down the order that India would love though, once Kohli gets out things get difficult. Dhoni used to fill that role but not anymore.

On the other hand Fahim plays in a weak batting line up where we can hardly afford to weaken anymore. We have quite a few part timers in Malik, Haris, Hafeez who have all been able to bowl 10 overs at times, even Fakhar can bowl a bit. We also have a batting allrounder in Talat knocking down the door in domestic too.

Internationals isn't the place to practice, or worse in Fahim's case learn, that's what domestic is for. If we play him, play him as third pacer and see if he can hold his own. If he can't, think the best option is to send him back to domestic to work on his game.
 
ads101 said:
Both of falling into the same usual cricketing pattern. Whatever you average in domestic, is likely to be close to what you average in internationals. There are those who do great in domestic, and poor in internationals. Very, very few average substantially more in internationals than domestic. Pandya shows flashes of brilliance but is inconsistent, just how he must be in domestic given his averages.

Same with Fahim, people went on about his talent and how his numbers didn't justify him in domestic. And yet he's produced numbers similar to that in internationals. Fahim is even worse I don't think he's even used to responsibility with the bat, he's batting like a bowler who slogs down the order. Which makes sense, he's a bowler first that's what he knows best.

Both are talented, but both probably picked too early and not allowed enough time to dominate in domestic, and develop the mindset and the ability to regularly contribute with the bat and perform under pressure.

Another argument for Pandya over Ashraf is he's a luxury India can afford. They have a strong batting line up. A hitter down the order who can score quick who can bowl a bit can be of use. Especially given India don't have the plethora of part time bowling options they used to. He's not the clutch finisher down the order that India would love though, once Kohli gets out things get difficult. Dhoni used to fill that role but not anymore.

On the other hand Fahim plays in a weak batting line up where we can hardly afford to weaken anymore. We have quite a few part timers in Malik, Haris, Hafeez who have all been able to bowl 10 overs at times, even Fakhar can bowl a bit. We also have a batting allrounder in Talat knocking down the door in domestic too.

Internationals isn't the place to practice, or worse in Fahim's case learn, that's what domestic is for. If we play him, play him as third pacer and see if he can hold his own. If he can't, think the best option is to send him back to domestic to work on his game.
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Agree, Pandya has higher sealing than Faheem. Also Pandya will get more opportunity due to full backing of :ravi and :kohli2 , which Fahim doesn't have!
 
IndianFan2018 said:
Agree, Pandya has higher sealing than Faheem. Also Pandya will get more opportunity due to full backing of :ravi and :kohli2 , which Fahim doesn't have!
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If anything, Sarfaraz and Mickey back the youngsters and newcomers even more. Not a single guy has been discarded without being given a fair chance to prove his worth.

In comparison, I find it surprising how India bench the likes of Rahul for inferior players. However, Kohli definitely does back the bowlers and all-rounders and Pandya is likely to be a long-term fixture in the team.
 
Abdullah719 said:
If anything, Sarfaraz and Mickey back the youngsters and newcomers even more. Not a single guy has been discarded without being given a fair chance to prove his worth.

In comparison, I find it surprising how India bench the likes of Rahul for inferior players. However, Kohli definitely does back the bowlers and all-rounders and Pandya is likely to be a long-term fixture in the team.
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Kholi will destroy poor Rahul's career. He has tendency to selects players in wrong formats. Rahane shouldn't be need LO teams and Manish has sacrificed his technique for power game, which is pretty poor as well. KL is better option that both the above.
 
It seems to me that Kohli trust Pandya the bowler more than Pandya the batsman otherwise why would he send Dhoni ahead of Pandya when 5-7 overs are remaining in a T20 match? Apart from 1 inning in a test match and bowling & fielding performance in the last ODI he hasn't done anything special in this tour.
 
What has Faheem done so far to even deserve the hype? Any impactful inning or bowling performance?

I always thought Pandya himself is a newbie and has only a few matches where he affected the outcome of the game. He is still a nobody in the Indian team. If he does not play tomorrow, he will not be terribly missed. As of now, Pandya is a nice to have kind of guy who can bowl and bat okay'ish.

On the other hand Faheem? What has he done to deserve the hype?
 
troodon said:
What has Faheem done so far to even deserve the hype? Any impactful inning or bowling performance?

I always thought Pandya himself is a newbie and has only a few matches where he affected the outcome of the game. He is still a nobody in the Indian team. If he does not play tomorrow, he will not be terribly missed. As of now, Pandya is a nice to have kind of guy who can bowl and bat okay'ish.

On the other hand Faheem? What has he done to deserve the hype?
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Let’s just say if a coach was to watch Pandya and Faheem batting together in the nets without any background knowledge about who they were, Faheem would look on another planet in terms of hitting ability.
 
babajee said:
Let’s just say if a coach was to watch Pandya and Faheem batting together in the nets without any background knowledge about who they were, Faheem would look on another planet in terms of hitting ability.
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... and the less said about bowling, the better.
 
babajee said:
Let’s just say if a coach was to watch Pandya and Faheem batting together in the nets without any background knowledge about who they were, Faheem would look on another planet in terms of hitting ability.
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Except we don't play international cricket in nets lol He has to prove something at the highest level. Pandya did that. He even did that in a Test match against Steyn, Morke, Philander, Rabada.
 
babajee said:
Let’s just say if a coach was to watch Pandya and Faheem batting together in the nets without any background knowledge about who they were, Faheem would look on another planet in terms of hitting ability.
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And is hitting ability the end all be all?
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Except we don't play international cricket in nets lol He has to prove something at the highest level. Pandya did that. He even did that in a Test match against Steyn, Morke, Philander, Rabada.
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Yep Pandya has proved something and Faheem will prove himself soon enough.
 
babajee said:
Let’s just say if a coach was to watch Pandya and Faheem batting together in the nets without any background knowledge about who they were, Faheem would look on another planet in terms of hitting ability.
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Faheem has played a few LOI matches. Any clip where he is hitting sixes for fun?

At least Pandya has done it against your team and against Aus a few times.

If Faheem is so much better than Pandya, then he should have already have at least one rampaging inning in the 5 or 6 matches Faheem played. Don't tell me he is unlucky.
 
babajee said:
Faheem would be a more useful hitter than Pandya at the death. All we need from Faheem is late order blitz.
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Then what is the point of this comparison? You have Pandya who is a genuine batsman and Faheem according to yourself is nothing more than a late order slogger.
 
Ellipsism said:
Then what is the point of this comparison? You have Pandya who is a genuine batsman and Faheem according to yourself is nothing more than a late order slogger.
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Tbh the thread was created prematurely. But anyway they are being compared as all rounders.
 
babajee said:
It’s getting there - Fakhar, Babar, Haris and Sarfaraz are solid.

Just need to get rid of the likes of Azhar, Hafeez, Malik.

We have a very good lower order atm.
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Dude, you are the only major team around in this era of Pattas who still struggle to chase anything over 250.Your tuk-tuks have to travel a long way to reach others.
 
Dingolfy said:
Dude, you are the only major team around in this era of Pattas who still struggle to chase anything over 250.Your tuk-tuks have to travel a long way to reach others.
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A few changes can completely change the outlook and chemistry of the team. But yeah no doubt our batting unit has some distance to go.
 
So Faheem played against NZL recently. Below are his stats.

1st ODI
Bowling - 9-0-58-1
Batting - 17*(12)

2nd ODI
Bowling - 5-0-30-1
Batting 7(18)

2nd ODI
Bowling - 5-0-30-1
Batting 7(18)

3rd ODI
Bowling - 6-0-29-1
Batting 10(13)

4th ODI
Bowling - 6-0-33-0
Batting 1(3) (Opening the innings)

5th ODI
Bowling - 9-0-49-2
Batting 23(15)

1st T20
Bowling - 1-0-8-0
Batting - 7(14)

1st T20
Bowling - 3.3-0-22-2
Batting - 0(1)

3rd T20
Bowling - 4-0-55-1
Batting - 8(6)

A sample of 7 matches and nothing to show. Not even 1 eye catching performance.
With bat, he got enough opportunities in ODI's where he could have played at least one blinder. Pak were getting destroyed by Kiwis and needed someone to stand up and play a good inning. What did Faheem do? Nothing.
 
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BCeXI-IHORw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Pandya did this in a test match. 26 in an over.
 
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Unfair comparison. As of now Pandya is ahead in both bat and ball...let's not talk about ifs and buts...Faheem can have a higher ceiling but he hasn't done anything substantive yet.
 
babajee said:
A few changes can completely change the outlook and chemistry of the team. But yeah no doubt our batting unit has some distance to go.
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Many teams can become world beaters with a few changes. Those changes are hard to come by. Otherwise, every team will be a GOAT team.
 
troodon said:
Many teams can become world beaters with a few changes. Those changes are hard to come by. Otherwise, every team will be a GOAT team.
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The thing is we have alternatives but our selectors are persisting with mediocrity and “experience”
 
babajee said:
The thing is we have alternatives but our selectors are persisting with mediocrity and “experience”
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The player who is riding the bench or domestics always look like world beaters.

Topic is about Faheem and he has not done anything to deserve the hype. Since the sample set is too small, we will have to wait till the end of 2018 to see if he is any good.
 
Pandya is a good fielder too. Today he was very good. He bowled some very crucial overs for India which eventually helped India win the match. That final over against Bangladesh where Mushfiqur made a fool of himself was one such over.
 
Faheem Ashraf needs a good psl and then try again in international cricket next year. many good things there to work with.
 
Pandya’s fielding alone is worth 10 runs every March for us.. Dude is very athletic only one who I have seen who looked more athletic than him was Andre Russel..

Both have a decent start to their careers, not bad not good so next 3 years are going to be very crucial.. Pandya needs to improve his batting against pace bowlers in LOI’s if he has to succeed as a lower middle order bat in LOI’s..
 
Sidilicious said:
Its really surprising the amount of hate Pandya gets on this forum. I understand the hate from [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] - because Pandya emerged in the IPL and he has some agenda against the IPL. When I counter his statements with facts, he response is anecdotal.

But from others, its shocking! Without a shadow of doubt he has been disappointing with the bat in the last 2 series, but people dont realise the risk reward situation here.

The risk of Pandya is a slightly weaker MO, and a few more runs leaked in the middle overs. But the upside is unbelievable. If Pandya has a good series, India will generally do well in that series. He needs to be allowed to develop in LOIs.
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Sorry for the late reply I didn't see this post. But lol at the "hate from [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] because Pandya emerged in the IPL". He is only a good fielder. Has a lot to prove in internationals both with his bat and ball. If saying the truth looks like hate to you then so be it. Atleast I don't say things like "even if India has to lose few matches to develop Pandya then there is no harm in it". It just shows clearly who is worshipping a player like Pandya and who wants to see his team win.
 
If you tell the average cricket follower that there is a thread on a cricket blog which compares 2 cricketing allrounders from Pakistan and India and has been going on for 13 pages, they would assume it's between Kapil Dev and Imran Khan. Only allrounders of their calibre who have proved themselves for decades deserve such time and dedication by keyboard warriors. Faheem and Pandya are still unsettled players in their teams, yet this thread makes it seem like they are at the peak of their careers.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Sorry for the late reply I didn't see this post. But lol at the "hate from [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] because Pandya emerged in the IPL". He is only a good fielder. Has a lot to prove in internationals both with his bat and ball. If saying the truth looks like hate to you then so be it. Atleast I don't say things like "even if India has to lose few matches to develop Pandya then there is no harm in it". It just shows clearly who is worshipping a player like Pandya and who wants to see his team win.
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At what point did I say "even if India has to lose few matches to develop Pandya then there is no harm in it". I clearly mentioned that the risk reward is heavily in India's favour. Which means, of he fails not a significant risk to India's result. And if he succeeds the Reward is exponential. Everyone would agree that except one match, Pandya had a pretty poor series. But India still won, courtesy top 3 and 4 bowlers. Which means that his failures did not have a huge impact on the result. But the match India won, Pandya turned it around with the ball. He has done well also against Aus in ODIs and was the MoS, IIRC. When he starts performing consistently, India will get to next level.

Now, there is no guarantee that he will perform or become a regular in the long run. And he has long way to go before he can be called a quality international cricketer. But he has shown enough glimpses that he needs to be persisted with at least another 6 months. When you have such talents, you are ready to accept some average performances initially, for the long run. This is simple Risk - Reward Situation.

As for test cricket, I dont think he belongs there. Not right now, at least.

Also, on IPL, its a different topic, but you are yet to answer to any of my pertinent arguments that I have raised over the last couple of years.
 
Sidilicious said:
At what point did I say "even if India has to lose few matches to develop Pandya then there is no harm in it". I clearly mentioned that the risk reward is heavily in India's favour. Which means, of he fails not a significant risk to India's result. And if he succeeds the Reward is exponential. Everyone would agree that except one match, Pandya had a pretty poor series. But India still won, courtesy top 3 and 4 bowlers. Which means that his failures did not have a huge impact on the result. But the match India won, Pandya turned it around with the ball. He has done well also against Aus in ODIs and was the MoS, IIRC. When he starts performing consistently, India will get to next level.

Now, there is no guarantee that he will perform or become a regular in the long run. And he has long way to go before he can be called a quality international cricketer. But he has shown enough glimpses that he needs to be persisted with at least another 6 months. When you have such talents, you are ready to accept some average performances initially, for the long run. This is simple Risk - Reward Situation.

As for test cricket, I dont think he belongs there. Not right now, at least.

Also, on IPL, its a different topic, but you are yet to answer to any of my pertinent arguments that I have raised over the last couple of years.
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Sometimes prejudice towards a player clouds thinking of few fans, no point convincing such ones.

People who matter coach :ravi and captain :kohli2 believe in Pandya's talent ...

If Pandya has in it him, he will succeed !
 
Faheem all the way. Come back when Pandya scores a 50 in PSL batting with the tail :srini:
 
Until he does something worthwhile in an international game this will stay as a joke thread. Actually his Brother Krunal Pandya is a very good all rounder too. Any other country he would already be playing.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Sorry for the late reply I didn't see this post. But lol at the "hate from [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] because Pandya emerged in the IPL". He is only a good fielder. Has a lot to prove in internationals both with his bat and ball. If saying the truth looks like hate to you then so be it. Atleast I don't say things like "even if India has to lose few matches to develop Pandya then there is no harm in it". It just shows clearly who is worshipping a player like Pandya and who wants to see his team win.
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What's your opinion on faheem?
 
aloo paratha said:
Can we stop bumping this thread every time one does bad and one does good? It's kind of annoying.
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Except for that 1 off 1 test match performance he had a flop series in terms of batting and also bowling but some indians are okay with him because he is saving them 10 run every match with his fielding
 
7sins said:
Except for that 1 off 1 test match performance he had a flop series in terms of batting and also bowling but some indians are okay with him because he is saving them 10 run every match with his fielding
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Bowling was more than okay as he contained well provided few breakthroughs when partnerships were developing
 
7sins said:
Except for that 1 off 1 test match performance he had a flop series in terms of batting and also bowling but some indians are okay with him because he is saving them 10 run every match with his fielding
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Being fifth bowler Pandya contributed by removing AB and bowling well to help win one of the ODI vs SA.

Pandya also bowled economically in decider T20 took key player Klassen wicket.
,
Gun fielder, done well in all matches both ODI and T20..

What else u want from alrounder in making ? :facepalm:

Pandya is not Kapil ..will never be, he will be good utility player with occasional brilliance !
 
7sins said:
Except for that 1 off 1 test match performance he had a flop series in terms of batting and also bowling but some indians are okay with him because he is saving them 10 run every match with his fielding
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Also with India being batting heavy team traditionally, needed good fifth bowler, which Pandya is trying to become ...Work in Progress !
 
7sins said:
Except for that 1 off 1 test match performance he had a flop series in terms of batting and also bowling but some indians are okay with him because he is saving them 10 run every match with his fielding
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I know, but Fahim hasn't done anything too special either. They're at the same level I feel.
 
India needs a 3rd bowler that can slog a bit. They are not looking for 50s from Pandya. 10 overs for 50 runs with a wicket or two, good out Fielding and 20 quick runs with the bat. Ability to deal pressure is another. That's all Kohli wants. Pandya is here to stay
 
In longer format, Fahim has the potential to be the better all rounder.

In the limited overs cricket, Pandya is way ahead of Fahim in the batting department. In the bowling department, Fahim is a better bowler than Pandya in the 50 overs format, while Pandya is better in T20 format.
 
ads101 said:
Both of falling into the same usual cricketing pattern. Whatever you average in domestic, is likely to be close to what you average in internationals. There are those who do great in domestic, and poor in internationals. Very, very few average substantially more in internationals than domestic. Pandya shows flashes of brilliance but is inconsistent, just how he must be in domestic given his averages.

Same with Fahim, people went on about his talent and how his numbers didn't justify him in domestic. And yet he's produced numbers similar to that in internationals. Fahim is even worse I don't think he's even used to responsibility with the bat, he's batting like a bowler who slogs down the order. Which makes sense, he's a bowler first that's what he knows best.

Both are talented, but both probably picked too early and not allowed enough time to dominate in domestic, and develop the mindset and the ability to regularly contribute with the bat and perform under pressure.

Another argument for Pandya over Ashraf is he's a luxury India can afford. They have a strong batting line up. A hitter down the order who can score quick who can bowl a bit can be of use. Especially given India don't have the plethora of part time bowling options they used to. He's not the clutch finisher down the order that India would love though, once Kohli gets out things get difficult. Dhoni used to fill that role but not anymore.

On the other hand Fahim plays in a weak batting line up where we can hardly afford to weaken anymore. We have quite a few part timers in Malik, Haris, Hafeez who have all been able to bowl 10 overs at times, even Fakhar can bowl a bit. We also have a batting allrounder in Talat knocking down the door in domestic too.

Internationals isn't the place to practice, or worse in Fahim's case learn, that's what domestic is for. If we play him, play him as third pacer and see if he can hold his own. If he can't, think the best option is to send him back to domestic to work on his game.
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Top post, the first paragraph is so realistic.
 
IndianFan2018 said:
Faheem Klusener took bowler turned batsman (hack Narine) wicket ... so much reaction for this, slow clap :ashwin
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Lol

Tbh I don't think there's much of a difference between the 2 hence the excitement when one or the other does well. I feel it's too early to judge them as they are only babies in their careers. What is your opinion?
 
ataullah said:
Lol

Tbh I don't think there's much of a difference between the 2 hence the excitement when one or the other does well. I feel it's too early to judge them as they are only babies in their careers. What is your opinion?
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Agree 100% brother...this comparison is really good both starting to find feat at high level.

My Opinion -

'WC'19 will decide who the winner among both' :19:
 
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IndianFan2018 said:
Agree 100% brother...this comparison is really good both starting to find feat at high level.

My Opinion -

'WC'19 will decide who the winner among both' :19:
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What if one performs better than the other but their team gets knocked out while the others' advances?
 
ManFan said:
What if one performs better than the other but their team gets knocked out while the others' advances?
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Usually WC events will show the real class of players, both being all rounders will get chance to showcase skills (at-least in group stages) for us to conclude who is better among two (only for this thread) !
 
So Faheem bowls a ball at 141 clicks and he is a good pacer.

He hits a full toss from Gul to four and he is a better hitter against pace than Pandya. :))

Pandya has done something in international cricket to deserve the hype. Faheem has not done anything in international cricket and he is better than Pandya to some posters.
 
troodon said:
So Faheem bowls a ball at 141 clicks and he is a good pacer.

He hits a full toss from Gul to four and he is a better hitter against pace than Pandya. :))

Pandya has done something in international cricket to deserve the hype. Faheem has not done anything in international cricket and he is better than Pandya to some posters.
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How many hattricks does Pandya have?
 
troodon said:
So Faheem bowls a ball at 141 clicks and he is a good pacer.

He hits a full toss from Gul to four and he is a better hitter against pace than Pandya. :))

Pandya has done something in international cricket to deserve the hype. Faheem has not done anything in international cricket and he is better than Pandya to some posters.
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Let's be honest if you're comparing Pandya with Faheem on bowling then Faheem is way better than him.
 
There’s no competition here, Faheem will never be nothing more than a hitter. On the other hand Pandya has the ability to be a genuine batsman batting at 5 or 6. And generally speaking India has the coaches and the environment to maximise a players potential. Pakistanis are just hella bent on belittling him.
 
troodon said:
So Faheem bowls a ball at 141 clicks and he is a good pacer.

He hits a full toss from Gul to four and he is a better hitter against pace than Pandya. :))

Pandya has done something in international cricket to deserve the hype. Faheem has not done anything in international cricket and he is better than Pandya to some posters.
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No doubt Pandya is better at this stage but Faheem has something so lets see how he develops.
 
Ah yes. My favourite thread on this forum :sarf

Faheem is improving by the day. Watch out haters.
 
Syed1 said:
How many hattricks does Pandya have?
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Bro, how can you forget the Hatrick he took against the Mighty Aussies bro? His ability to reverse swing at 145 clicks was a sight to behold. Made a fool out of Smith, Warner and Hanscomb at the Adeliade and then proceeded to score a matchwining 150+

Faheem can only dream of a such a performance and that too away from home.
 
Syed1 said:
How many hattricks does Pandya have?
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So now we judge a players calibre by a hat-trick taken in a T20I game? I agree that Faheem is a brilliant talent but there have been lots of great bowlers who don't have a hattrick to their name. Pandya has not achieved much at this level and so has Faheem. Let them play a for couple of years and we can judge as to what they have achieved in their careers. Anyone remember Anthony Stuart? Google him. Got a ODI hattrick against Pakistan only in his 3rd game. Never played again for Australia and no one remembers him.
 
giri26 said:
So now we judge a players calibre by a hat-trick taken in a T20I game? I agree that Faheem is a brilliant talent but there have been lots of great bowlers who don't have a hattrick to their name. Pandya has not achieved much at this level and so has Faheem. Let them play a for couple of years and we can judge as to what they have achieved in their careers. Anyone remember Anthony Stuart? Google him. Got a ODI hattrick against Pakistan only in his 3rd game. Never played again for Australia and no one remembers him.
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My response was specifically for the poster who said that Pandya has achieved so much in international cricket while Fahim hasn't done anything. The Indians are making it out as if Pandya is some well established player snapping at the heels of Stokes as best alrounder.

I agree that hattrick isn't a measure of how good a bowler is, but you have to be slightly better than average to take a hattrick in international cricket.


Ashraf was also by far our best pacer in NZ, anybody who had actually seen the matches would attest to that fact. Even the commentators were impressed by him, his ability to hit the deck, vary the pace when required, maintain good channels or bowl 140+ if the situation demands, but if you look at the scorecard it would show mediocre trundler Rumman Raees as the highest wicket-taker even though he got phainti match after match.
 
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