Has Mohammad Abbas proved it is wrong to blame conditions in UAE for poor performances of pacers?

[Madplayer]

We see appologists of Muhammad Amir and the likes make this excuse again and again that UAE is the graveyard of fast bowlers and that we shouldnt expect fast bowlers to pick many wickets there.

However, with incredible performances time and again by Abbas in UAE, is it now proved that its the talent rather than conditions that matter?

 

[saeed5646]

totally agree abbas have expose our fast bowler like amir,wahab hopefully our young bowler like hasan ali and shaheen will learn how to succeeded in those condition

 

[Madplayer]

totally agree abbas have expose our fast bowler like amir,wahab hopefully our young bowler like hasan ali and shaheen will learn how to succeeded in those condition

What is Abbas doing right which other fast bowlers are not?

 

[Pakhs]

Not really most of the fast bowers will not be effective in this conditions, Credit must be given to Abbas to bowl as well as he has bowled in this series against a pretty week Australian line it must be said.

Bowlers like Amir who are reliant on swing will always struggle on these kind of wickets Something similar happens to Anderson.

 

[saeed5646]

What is Abbas doing right which other fast bowlers are not?

1}use of new ball
2)make the batsmen play and hit the wicket 9 out of 10 time
i think it is our main issue across all the format from long long time the way he use new ball and
hit the wicket 9 out of 10 time which is what amir and wahab have fail to do

 

[saeed5646]

Not really most of the fast bowers will not be effective in this conditions, Credit must be given to Abbas to bowl as well as he has bowled in this series against a pretty week Australian line it must be said.

Bowlers like Amir who are reliant on swing will always struggle on these kind of wickets Something similar happens to Anderson.

wrong anderson have performed very well in uae that too after playing after his 30s which is incredible

Mats
6

Inns
12

Wkts
22

Ave
20.54

Eco
2.09

SR
58.90

5Ws
0

 

[LordJames]

More worrying is the lack of wickets by our spinners in the UAE. It used to be happy hunting ground for our spinners.

I am happy for Abbas but lack of penetration by the spinner is worrying.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Bowlers like Amir who are reliant on swing will always struggle on these kind of wickets Something similar happens to Anderson.

Anderson has a superb record in the UAE, he averages 20 across 6 matches. Good fast bowlers with lots of skills can adapt to almost all conditions. This just highlights that the likes of Amir and Wahab are mediocre bowlers that don't have the mental strength to succeed in adverse conditions.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Amir is a mediocre bowler. All his career has been about his apologists making excuses for his fixing and poor performances in Asia.

 

[Madplayer]

1}use of new ball
2)make the batsmen play and hit the wicket 9 out of 10 time
i think it is our main issue across all the format from long long time the way he use new ball and
hit the wicket 9 out of 10 time which is what amir and wahab have fail to do

I agree. He bowls attacking lines and makes the ball do just enough to put doubt in batsman's mind. Also it helps that he can both seam and swing the ball which means he can adapt to different pitches.

 

[Pakhs]

wrong anderson have performed very well in uae that too after playing after his 30s which is incredible

Mats
6

Inns
12

Wkts
22

Ave
20.54

Eco
2.09

SR
58.90

5Ws
0

That's just one place out of all Asia, Amir also has a good record in Srilanka. But over all both bowlers bowl better in swinging conditions.

 

[Pakhs]

Anderson has a superb record in the UAE, he averages 20 across 6 matches. Good fast bowlers with lots of skills can adapt to almost all conditions. This just highlights that the likes of Amir and Wahab are mediocre bowlers that don't have the mental strength to succeed in adverse conditions.

See my response to this above.

 

[Madplayer]

Not really most of the fast bowers will not be effective in this conditions, Credit must be given to Abbas to bowl as well as he has bowled in this series against a pretty week Australian line it must be said.

Bowlers like Amir who are reliant on swing will always struggle on these kind of wickets Something similar happens to Anderson.

Check out Steyn, Philander and Anderson's averages in Asia. They have bowled outstandingly well there.

 

[gazza619]

Fair point. Abbass is proving to be world class. Its high time we bring in Shaheen Afridi to partner him in tests.

 

[Pakhs]

Check out Steyn, Philander and Anderson's averages in Asia. They have bowled outstandingly well there.

Steyn is a different beast all together, Both Philander and Anderson have better averages at home.

 

[Madplayer]

Steyn is a different beast all together, Both Philander and Anderson have better averages at home.

Sure they have better averages at home but they arent complete duds like Amir in Asian conditions. Amir looks harmless in these conditions.

 

[MMHS]

This wicket in TOTALLY different from any thing what we have seen in UAE in recent times, therefore drawing conclusion is risky. But, it's true that Abbas is bowling exceptionally well. Runs on board always helps & to his aid, Sarfraz won both toss, but 2 of his 1st innings wickets were top order lefti, with classical Test dismissals - making batsmen play at something bowled from angle & leaving, it ended in slip cordon.

I think, it's more with Abbas (& AUS batting), rather than wicket here; UAE is still poor wicket for pacers for cricket actually, at least this time they have made sure that there is some pace, bounce & turn - no surprise RR in this Test is in higher side than usual. If it was that easy for pacers like Abbas proving it, I doubt if MoHa could have reached double digit in 4 bites against Strac & Siddle - he has a century FGS!!!!!!

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Fair point. Abbass is proving to be world class. Its high time we bring in Shaheen Afridi to partner him in tests.

I agree, Don't know why Mir Hamza was given a debut. When we all Know that Shaheen is the Future for Pakistan.

 

[ManFan]

I think we were led to believe for years that pace and pace only takes wickets in the UAE due to the ability of reverse-swing and taking the pitch out of the equation.

What the likes of Abbas and Anderson have done is use fast-bowling in the manner spin is used. Bowl tight lines, dry runs, build pressure, slow the RR down, and force the batsmen to make mistakes playing risky shots.

While the likes of Amir, Wahab, and Starc look for a magical ball each time to take a wicket, they end up failing because they bowl undisciplined lines.

 

[wrongun]

No he hasn't.

He's proven that some bowlers have the ability to perform at an excellent level in UAE conditions. Some can't, even if they are otherwise good bowlers.

Some batsmen have the ability to perform at an excellent level in XYZ conditions too. They don't prove that bouncy/swinging/spinning/etc conditions are irrelevant.

I'll take a bet that M. Abbas falls behind Philander when he plays in SA. Not because he's no good, just that success in one conditions doesn't AT ALL guarantee success in another.

Please quote and embarrass me later

 

[Madplayer]

This wicket in TOTALLY different from any thing what we have seen in UAE in recent times, therefore drawing conclusion is risky. But, it's true that Abbas is bowling exceptionally well. Runs on board always helps & to his aid, Sarfraz won both toss, but 2 of his 1st innings wickets were top order lefti, with classical Test dismissals - making batsmen play at something bowled from angle & leaving, it ended in slip cordon.

I think, it's more with Abbas (& AUS batting), rather than wicket here; UAE is still poor wicket for pacers for cricket actually, at least this time they have made sure that there is some pace, bounce & turn - no surprise RR in this Test is in higher side than usual. If it was that easy for pacers like Abbas proving it, I doubt if MoHa could have reached double digit in 4 bites against Strac & Siddle - he has a century FGS!!!!!!

But Abbas has done it again and again. Even in last test match.

 

[wrongun]

I think we were led to believe for years that pace and pace only takes wickets in the UAE due to the ability of reverse-swing and taking the pitch out of the equation.

What the likes of Abbas and Anderson have done is use fast-bowling in the manner spin is used. Bowl tight lines, dry runs, build pressure, slow the RR down, and force the batsmen to make mistakes playing risky shots.

While the likes of Amir, Wahab, and Starc look for a magical ball each time to take a wicket, they end up failing because they bowl undisciplined lines.

Good point.

Warne is generally useless when talking about anything but himself but he recalls as a youngster bowling in nets with Terry Jenner watching and Jenner said Warne had all the toys; huge spinning stock ball, wrong un', flipper, toppy etc but no idea how to use them...
Warne was at first confused and then realised he had more weapons than anyone but needed to know when/how to deploy them. And he took it to heart and used that idea all through his career even when injury left him with no weapons but a slight leggy, a toppy he could bowl once a spell and a whole lot of bluff.

Starc etc are in the same boat. Starc has a killer yorker, a deadly bouncer, reverse swing and high pace/height/bounce but just no idea how to put those ingredients together to sort a batsman out at Test level when they don;t have to swing at him or the pitch is slow. Almost Sami-like.

But if we get on the WACA or GABBA, I think Starc takes more. Otherwise, Abbas is the second coming of M. Asif.

 

[Usman Chadda]

What is Abbas doing right which other fast bowlers are not?

Abbas is a seam bowler. Hits the right length and lets the ball do the rest. He is very accurate too, which plays on the batsman's mind. Same reason pre-injury Junaid was also successful in the UAE.

Amir relies more on movement through the air.

 

[New Yorker]

I agree, Don't know why Mir Hamza was given a debut. When we all Know that Shaheen is the Future for Pakistan.

Sure, just as we all knew at some point that Amir was special, that Wahab has that extra something to make things happen, and that Rahat has everything a fast bowler needs to succeed.

I put very little trust in what people take for granted. Shaheen may be a wonderful but so is Hamza, who has been second or third best FC bowler in domestics alongside Abbas and Sadaf for some years

What is quite fascinating is that no matter how well Abbas does, no matter well Asif did, fans will always explain their success as exceptions to an unspoken rule. Even though the best bowlers in domestics are line and length bowlers, we remain transfixed by pace.

This belief has some curious relation to the feeling domestic performance can never mean anything; that the basis for knowing anything can never be with ourselves.

Hence, if a bowler is fast but mediocre in domestics, he should still be selected. Hence, if he is slow but brilliant, he should not be selected.

Hence, although Abbas' is doing exactly what he has done at home for three years now, taking wickets in internationals at roughly his average in domestics, people now date his "form" to his brief summer county stint.

 

[Red Devil]

No he hasn't.

He's proven that some bowlers have the ability to perform at an excellent level in UAE conditions. Some can't, even if they are otherwise good bowlers.

Some batsmen have the ability to perform at an excellent level in XYZ conditions too. They don't prove that bouncy/swinging/spinning/etc conditions are irrelevant.

I'll take a bet that M. Abbas falls behind Philander when he plays in SA. Not because he's no good, just that success in one conditions doesn't AT ALL guarantee success in another.

Please quote and embarrass me later

Well he most probably will fall behind Philander when we play in SA but that won't prove much because of the disparity between the two batting line ups both of them will be bowling against.

 

[MMHS]

But Abbas has done it again and again. Even in last test match.

He is bowling exceptionally well, and last Test also had 482 & 462 on bag - kept things on proper spot. Wahab & Yasir were poor, therefore you are not considering that 482 & 462 lead, otherwise score board pressure is a major burden on such wickets where you can't score quickly to release some pressure. Few years back under Misbah, I believe Imran Sr. picked a 5for in UAE while Rahat won a MoM bowling exceptionally well - that's what score board pressure can do.

Abbas bowled brilliantly even in 2nd innings, but couldn't win the game at Dubai, which won't be the case against this AUS side ANYWHERE else in cricket world.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

No, he's been exceptional. These are not good conditions at all. There's literally nothing for pacers.

Also, I'd like to point out that UAE conditions are not the same as SC conditions. The pitches, weather varies there greatly whereas you know what to expect in UAE day in, day out.

 

[CricketDon]

Amir has no heart and does wel in helpful pitches once In a blue moon.

What else do you expect from a fixer and convict.

 

[Fahdi]

Abbas has been the exception and should not be used as the general rule.

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

When Australia toured Pakistan last time there was an Imran Khan who regularly picked wickets along with Yasir Shah.

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

when australia toured pakistan last time there was an imran khan who regularly picked wickets along with yasir shah.

*uae

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

Pakistan fans shouldn't get carried away. In a test series played against South Africa in UAE which was the first after Amir and Asif were banned a bowler named Tanvir Ahmed ripped through South Africa in a brief good spell.

 

[DRsohail]

This wicket in TOTALLY different from any thing what we have seen in UAE in recent times, therefore drawing conclusion is risky. But, it's true that Abbas is bowling exceptionally well. Runs on board always helps & to his aid, Sarfraz won both toss, but 2 of his 1st innings wickets were top order lefti, with classical Test dismissals - making batsmen play at something bowled from angle & leaving, it ended in slip cordon.

I think, it's more with Abbas (& AUS batting), rather than wicket here; UAE is still poor wicket for pacers for cricket actually, at least this time they have made sure that there is some pace, bounce & turn - no surprise RR in this Test is in higher side than usual. If it was that easy for pacers like Abbas proving it, I doubt if MoHa could have reached double digit in 4 bites against Strac & Siddle - he has a century FGS!!!!!!

I enjoyed this wicket i mean enjoyed batsamn playing there shots and bowlers taking wickets,outfield was also good.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

No he hasn't.

He's proven that some bowlers have the ability to perform at an excellent level in UAE conditions. Some can't, even if they are otherwise good bowlers.

Some batsmen have the ability to perform at an excellent level in XYZ conditions too. They don't prove that bouncy/swinging/spinning/etc conditions are irrelevant.

I'll take a bet that M. Abbas falls behind Philander when he plays in SA. Not because he's no good, just that success in one conditions doesn't AT ALL guarantee success in another.

Please quote and embarrass me later

Abbas has performed in Pakistan, UAE, West Indies and England. He is not limited to just UAE conditions.

 

[MMHS]

I enjoyed this wicket i mean enjoyed batsamn playing there shots and bowlers taking wickets,outfield was also good.

It'll also get slower & lower in Day 4 & 5, because wicket is built on soft base with less clay content; but much better than Dubai - and there is enough time for a direct result here. Also, I think this wicket is drier than Dubai hence it'll break with foot-mark; Yasir should get big turn here, slow turn but not as dying like Dubai, while Sarfraz should learn his lesson and he has 75 more to defend - this time I expect him to be more attacking, therefore AUS's RR will also be higher.

 

[Saj]

Put the ball in the right area often enough and it doesn't matter what the pitch is like or what te surface is.

A bowler who is skillful and consistent and uses his brain will alway succeed. Glenn McGrath is an example of such a bowler.

 

[Madplayer]

Put the ball in the right area often enough and it doesn't matter what the pitch is like or what te surface is.

A bowler who is skillful and consistent and uses his brain will alway succeed. Glenn McGrath is an example of such a bowler.

Its incredible how he is able to do what no other pacer from either side has been able to do.

 

[90MPH]

Its incredible how he is able to do what no other pacer from either side has been able to do.

He just keeps hitting the seam and very accurate.

Probably as accurate as Asif but without the height otherwise with his bounce he would be even more readily.

As it is he’s an amazing bowler and a real gem that needs to kept wrapped in cotton wool for years to come just for this format.

 

[kingusama92]

Pakistan fans shouldn't get carried away. In a test series played against South Africa in UAE which was the first after Amir and Asif were banned a bowler named Tanvir Ahmed ripped through South Africa in a brief good spell.

Did you just compare Tanvir Ahmed to Mohammad Abbas?

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mohammad Abbas has become the first pace bowler to take 9 wickets in a Test match in UAE. Previous best was 8 wickets for 151 runs by Junaid Khan against Sri Lanka in 2013 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvAUS?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvAUS</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1053182090198552576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[mak36]

This thread undermines how good Abbas is. The fact is very few pacers succeed in the UAE.