What is it about Australian conditions that historically suits the otherwise average performances of the Indian cricket team?

[big_gamer007]

Most Indian batters are comfortable against pace and bounce, what they struggle the most against is lateral movement which you get in England and SA.

In Australia after the first 15-20 overs the lateral movement becomes less and Indian batters are comfortable. In England/SA even the soft ball can swing/seam after 60 overs depending on condition so Indian batsmen struggle.

 

[NishanKonar]

Reasonable response but why do you think India fail to up their game vs Newzealand. Does a whitewash against Newzealand not hurt indian cricketing circles? Interesting observation.

Defeats to ur biggest rivals always hurt more than losng to other sides. Like Pakistan fans will hate losing to India much more than losing to ZImbabwe or Bangladesh

Like Man Utd fans wont mind losing to Burnley / Everton / Fulham but losing to Liverpool will hurt a lot

 

[ethan hunt]

Most Test Matches Won in SENA Countries by Asian Teams (Matches)

29 - (146)
29 - (172)*
9 - (74)
1 - (25)

Wonder where pak would stand after 172 games. They need to start winning overseas, been a while.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

Most Test Matches Won in SENA Countries by Asian Teams (Matches)

29 - (146)
29 - (172)*
9 - (74)
1 - (25)

Wonder where pak would stand after 172 games. They need to start winning overseas, been a while.

How on earth pak has better record in sena than india even now pak has not beaten any sena team in a while still their record stands out.

 

[jnaveen1980]

How on earth pak has better record in sena than india even now pak has not beaten any sena team in a while still their record stands out.

THey bashed ENgland NZ in the 90s a lot.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

THey bashed ENgland NZ in the 90s a lot.

Ya that could be one reason bro.

 

[Buffet]

How on earth pak has better record in sena than india even now pak has not beaten any sena team in a while still their record stands out.

WI had 54 wins in SENA twenty years ago. Now , it's 58 wins.

Not the same extreme, but Pakistan is following the trend.

Cricket did not start recently. India was poor away team in 90s due to lack of pacers. I think they won 1 test outside India, forget about winning in SENA or any more spefic filter.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

WI had 54 wins in SENA twenty years ago. Now , it's 58 wins.

Not the same extreme, but Pakistan is following the trend.

Cricket did not start recently. India was poor away team in 90s due to lack of pacers. I think they won 1 test outside India, forget about winning in SENA or any more spefic filter.

Ya i get that but i think this pak team will fancy their chances vs south africa with kind of spin bowlers pak has and south africa being almost minnow team in test game will be on big time.

 

[Buffet]

Ya i get that but i think this pak team will fancy their chances vs south africa with kind of spin bowlers pak has and south africa being almost minnow team in test game will be on big time.

True, but some batsmen need to still score runs and bowlers need to simply not give freebies. I wouldn't call SA almost minnow. SA has a good domestic system and it will keep producing good players.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

True, but some batsmen need to still score runs and bowlers need to simply not give freebies. I wouldn't call SA almost minnow. SA has a good domestic system and it will keep producing good players.

Ya bro i know they got great system but south africa young lot doesnt look that promising they someone like markram is still struggling to find his feet he should have been a superstar by now.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

It seems like modern day Aussies don't play with high intensity against India (due to IPL perhaps).

They were more focused on the auction

 

[JaDed]

Most Indian batters are comfortable against pace and bounce, what they struggle the most against is lateral movement which you get in England and SA.

In Australia after the first 15-20 overs the lateral movement becomes less and Indian batters are comfortable. In England/SA even the soft ball can swing/seam after 60 overs depending on condition so Indian batsmen struggle.

That’s why Lanka has done well in England, they are the last South Asian team to win a series there, and India before that and Pakistan before that.

Pakistani batsmen are overrated when it comes to winning series in England is taken into account, they are nothing without YK overall.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

They were more focused on the auction

Perhaps that's why PAK lost to Zimbabwe too? Players focussing on an auction they were never going to be a part of.

 

[jnaveen1980]

GIlhcirst talks about what sepearates India from other teams that tour Australia.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Perhaps that's why PAK lost to Zimbabwe too? Players focussing on an auction they were never going to be a part of.

Obsessed. Pakistan is a minnow, why so invested?..

It's the equivalent of Brazil trolling Bolivia

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Obsessed. Pakistan is a minnow, why so invested?..

It's the equivalent of Brazil trolling Bolivia

Per your logic, OZ are focussed on IPL auction. But somehow the history nation India, who is playing Australia, and whose players are getting paid a lot more in the auction weren't ?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Per your logic, OZ are focussed on IPL auction. But somehow the history nation India, who is playing Australia, and whose players are getting paid a lot more in the auction weren't ?

*host

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Per your logic, OZ are focussed on IPL auction. But somehow the history nation India, who is playing Australia, and whose players are getting paid a lot more in the auction weren't ?

Are they not guaranteed selection?...

Aus thought they'd win without preparation despite their recent humblings at home to india. It was complacent at best and arrogant at worse.

 

[Shafikapeo]

India since the 2000s apart from a couple of exceptions have done well im Australia. Compare that to their performances in other places like NZ and Eng where they invariably get a pasting its amazing.

So what is it about Australian conditions that seems to suit both batsmen and bowlers from an otherwise mediocre travelling team?

I believe the root of this lies in the Australians' sledging and arrogance, which has always motivated us Indians to perform against them. The rivalry truly began with the iconic Kolkata Test match, where Harbhajan Singh took a historic hat-trick under Dada’s (Sourav Ganguly’s) captaincy. The 2003 World Cup final loss to Australia marked another major turning point in this rivalry.

Even before that, during the 1983 World Cup, the English media underestimated us, treating India as underdogs. We silenced them by winning the trophy. Beating Australia in Australia is one of the most satisfying moments in cricket—few victories can compare to that feeling.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Are they not guaranteed selection?...

Aus thought they'd win without preparation despite their recent humblings at home to india. It was complacent at best and arrogant at worse.

How many players play multiple domestic matches anymore anywhere in the world before a home season?

It doesn't happen.

Anyway Marnus played 2 Shield matches and he was the worst player. Travis and Marsh came in cold because of paternity leave or whatever and they batted a lot better

 

[captain.hansolo]

Most Test Matches Won in SENA Countries by Asian Teams (Matches)

29 - (146)
29 - (172)*
9 - (74)
1 - (25)

Wonder where pak would stand after 172 games. They need to start winning overseas, been a while.

If that statistic does not have a time constraint, then it is a meaningless statistic.

 

[kron]

If that statistic does not have a time constraint, then it is a meaningless statistic.

Most of India's losses to englund were during pre 70s weak assm rubbish amateur era

 

[mominsaigol]

"Mediocre travelling team"....

I would really like to know which team in world cricket currently is a better travelling side than India.

Come on OP. @ethan hunt

travelling side than India.

Travis Head

 

[Devadwal]

After 1st test phainta to Australia some fans has lost their mind.

 

[sweep_shot]

travelling side than India.

Travis Head

Indians are very salty about Travis Head. It is quite hilarious.

Looks like Head has traumatized them with his performances in WTC and 2023 WC final.

 

[mominsaigol]

Indians are very salty about Travis Head. It is quite hilarious.

Looks like Head has traumatized them with his performances in WTC and 2023 WC final.

Head lives in their(@Devadwal @Rajdeep @Mesozoic) head rent free.

 

[mominsaigol]

After 1st test phainta to Australia some fans has lost their mind.

No, it is you who have lost your Head.

 

[jnaveen1980]

After 1st test phainta to Australia some fans has lost their mind.

They banked so much on Australia to troll India. It backfired lol. So they are venting their anger at Australia even though it is ludicrous. As i said earlier it is much easier to appreciate good cricket and move on even if it is a team that you don't like.

 

[Devadwal]

No, it is you who have lost your Head.

Ho gyi double century cheater ki or century head ki .

You never forget this ohainta

 

[Devadwal]

They banked so much on Australia to troll India. It backfired lol. So they are venting their anger at Australia even though it is ludicrous. As i said earlier it is much easier to appreciate good cricket and move on even if it is a team that you don't like.

They has becomes australia fans because their own team can't do anything

 

[mominsaigol]

Ho gyi double century cheater ki or century head ki .

You never forget this ohainta

And you never forget wtc 2023 and WC 2023 phainti.

Steve smith and Travis head are my favourites.

It's a shame steve smith is done now though but Travis head will remain at the Head of the table for a long long time.

 

[mominsaigol]

They has becomes australia fans because their own team can't do anything

I live in Australia. Where do you live? England?

 

[ethan hunt]

Most of India's losses to englund were during pre 70s weak assm rubbish amateur era

Legit reason not to count those defeats in the stats

 

[Varun]

I live in Australia. Where do you live? England?

1 out of 5 tests have been played. 4 more to go. The series result could yet be a disastrous 3-1 or 4-1 in favour of Australia. So just relax.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Instead of casting aspersions why can't you act as a normal cricket fan and analyze yousrelf what makes them do well here. It is a good case study for a cricket fan. This way you can seperate yourself as a serious cricket fan rather than a run of the mill troll. WHy can't you expand your cricketing knowledge, perceptions by reading opinions of various experts instead of randomly throwing opinions

Read this Forbes article

Check how BCCI promotes test cricket. Compare that with your cricketing boards. You play 1 test series, 2 test series. What is the contribution of other teams to test matches? BCCI can live without Test cricket. Yet they give a lot of importance to Tests.

India Foreshadows Cricket Dominance With Thrashing Of Australia

Cricket's financial power India has never truly dominated five-day Test cricket, but a sustained run of success is imminent due to its depth of talent and heft.

www.forbes.com

India Foreshadows Cricket Dominance With Thrashing Of Australia​

Underlining cricket's generational divide, in a clash of the sport's traditions and its inevitable future, the backend of the blockbuster series-opener in the Border-Gavaskar Trophy between Australia and India was played with the Indian Premier League looming large.



Even though it boasts many of their country's top players, testament to the financial power of cricket's richest league, Australian fans and the media don't have much interest in the IPL which is played in the immediate aftermath of its season.


But for Indian media in Perth, they had to work dual shifts and slog through long days covering the Test match followed by who had sold for what price in an IPL auction that grips India. As journalists in the press box explained to their Australian counterparts, the IPL is especially king among younger cricket fans in India.


While it was once international cricket that was at the heart of the obsession for the sport they love, fans are starting to be invested more for their IPL team than the India national team. The IPL has also come of age amid the rise of sports betting and fantasy games.


Cricket had been a rare major sport where international cricket was far more popular than franchise leagues, but that is changing in India where a generation has been weaned on the IPL since it took off in 2008.

There is widespread belief that the IPL, currently running for around two months, will expand to the lengths seen in American major sport leagues. With an abundance of resources, including growing relations with Saudi Arabia as links deepen with this year's auction held in Jeddah, the IPL appears likely to eventually completely transcend the sport.

But, right now, international cricket is still alive. And despite attention spans declining, the traditional five-day Test format endures. In Australia it is still the most popular form of cricket and series against India are particularly hyped.

But Test cricket could be effectively extinguished if not for mighty India's overwhelming support of the format despite lukewarm interest back home.

Credit should go to its all-powerful boss and incoming ICC chair Jay Shah, who has been a staunch advocate and so too superstar Virat Kohli - the most famous cricketer in the world doubling as the sport's most influential voice.

India have been determined to absolutely dominate this most respected format, which they had modest success until the last couple of decades. They've had a decade-long win streak against Australia and been arguably the best team over this period mostly on the back of an astonishing home record that was only just recently breached.

But India have never truly dominated across the board. They've never had an all-time team like West Indies 1980s or Australia 2000s. Given their resources and depth of talent in a country where cricket is clearly the most popular sport, India should really be almost unbeatable.

We're seeing their overwhelming might strengthening in the T20 format, where India won June's World Cup and they've been eviscerating all comers for some time. The IPL's breeding ground has clearly started to bear fruit.

But they want to do likewise in Test cricket and etch their names alongside those legendary teams. Their first Test upset against Australia could well be foreshadowing the future.

India were largely written off ahead of the series, after that unprecedented home whitewash against New Zealand, and were shorthanded without a slew of veterans including captain Rohit Sharma.

But a youthful India provided energy to rattle an aging Australia in a surprisingly one-sided contest. Thanks to strong pathways, Australia usually has an enviable depth of talent but right now the cupboard is bare.

India, however, have options galore in all departments as they proved in the first Test where Nitish Kumar Reddy and Harshit Rana impressed on debut

Kohli rewound the clock to peel off a masterful century to end a form slump, but 22-year-old Yashasvi Jaiswal's 161 proved he is a worthy protégé to India's long-time talisman.

India are in pole position to win the series. But there will be twists and turns in cricket's most tempestuous rivalry. Australia will surely bounce back having looked particularly sluggish after a long hiatus from Test cricket.

India may not win the series, but it feels like prolonged domination of Test cricket is imminent. Their cash-rich governing body recently launched its new national training centre that has cutting edge amenities the rest of the cricket world can only dream of.

India's off-field wealth has not quite married up on-field, but it's not far away.

 

[sweep_shot]

Most of India's losses to englund were during pre 70s weak assm rubbish amateur era

I understand Indians love to rewrite and manipulate histories but those statistics shouldn't be discarded.

 

[kron]

I understand Indians love to rewrite and manipulate histories but those statistics shouldn't be discarded.

Why shouldn't weak amateur era not be discounted. There were like 3 4 teams playing competitively at the time.

 

[ethan hunt]

Why shouldn't weak amateur era not be discounted. There were like 3 4 teams playing competitively at the time.

Shouldnt India’s record be better then according to this logic?

 

[kron]

Shouldnt India’s record be better then according to this logic?

Pre 70s was weak amateur era. How would it be better then? Indi actually won 3 series In England. Guess how many pakistan have won? Same. 3.

 

[ethan hunt]

Pre 70s was weak amateur era. How would it be better then? Indi actually won 3 series In England. Guess how many pakistan have won? Same. 3.

What does any of that have to do with this:

Most Test Matches Won in SENA Countries by Asian Teams (Matches)

29 - (146)
29 - (172)*
9 - (74)
1 - (25)

Accept the past and move on.

 

[Local.Dada]

What does any of that have to do with this:

Most Test Matches Won in SENA Countries by Asian Teams (Matches)

29 - (146)
29 - (172)*
9 - (74)
1 - (25)

Accept the past and move on.

Pakistan hasn’t won a test series in Wi till 2017 and limped its way to a win the only time they won. Failed to win the subsequent series too.

Pak in Australia is a love story for the ages.

In SA- Pak have won lesser tests than India with their fast bowling superstars.

However Pak in the 90s did bash England and Nzl a lot when those teams were extremely mediocre and Pak had a gun bowling attack for those conditons. Not taking anything away, you bash what is in front of you.

current Indian team has made it to WTC finals, WC finals, drew series 1-1 in SA, 2-2 in England, won WT20, beat Aus twice in their home and till the recent Nz series were borderline unbeatable at home.

So there is no surprise unless you have smoke coming from your backside to wonder how India is doing well. Obviously, it’s a different matter if there was more substance to the argument but it is clear as day why India does well in Australia. Good team with all bases covered.

 

[ethan hunt]

Pakistan hasn’t won a test series in Wi till 2017 and limped its way to a win the only time they won. Failed to win the subsequent series too.

Pak in Australia is a love story for the ages.

In SA- Pak have won lesser tests than India with their fast bowling superstars.

However Pak in the 90s did bash England and Nzl a lot when those teams were extremely mediocre and Pak had a gun bowling attack for those conditons. Not taking anything away, you bash what is in front of you.

current Indian team has made it to WTC finals, WC finals, drew series 1-1 in SA, 2-2 in England, won WT20, beat Aus twice in their home and till the recent Nz series were borderline unbeatable at home.

So there is no surprise unless you have smoke coming from your backside to wonder how India is doing well. Obviously, it’s a different matter if there was more substance to the argument but it is clear as day why India does well in Australia. Good team with all bases covered.

Thats one way to look at it another would be lost the WTC final, never won in Southafrica, couldnt beat Engand and whitewashed home and away vs Nz.

Pak bashed eng and nz a lot because they were mediocre? What does ghat make India. Pak was only team that drew with the great westindian side. There is a reason Pak’s test record is better than India because they’ve been better.
Credit to India for the way they ve played in aus of late.

 

[Local.Dada]

Thats one way to look at it another would be lost the WTC final, never won in Southafrica, couldnt beat Engand and whitewashed home and away vs Nz.

Pak bashed eng and nz a lot because they were mediocre? What does ghat make India. Pak was only team that drew with the great westindian side. There is a reason Pak’s test record is better than India because they’ve been better.
Credit to India for the way they ve played in aus of late.

Yes India in the 90s had a weaker fast bowling lineup than Pakistan. Did anyone else say otherwise? At the same time though India was undefeated at home in the 90s for the major part , Pak lost to Zimbabwe at home.

Ok Pak drew with WI in one series but they didn’t win till 2017 there. WI was extremely mediocre since early 2000s.

While India was not as strong as Pakistan in cricket in 80s and 90s for what it’s worth we won 2 ICC tournaments in the 80s. What is your takeaway from that.

You can just say India currently across all 3 formats and all conditions might be the best it top 1-2 team and move on but you are clutching at straws and coming up with caveats.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

Yes India in the 90s had a weaker fast bowling lineup than Pakistan. Did anyone else say otherwise? At the same time though India was undefeated at home in the 90s for the major part , Pak lost to Zimbabwe at home.

Ok Pak drew with WI in one series but they didn’t win till 2017 there. WI was extremely mediocre since early 2000s.

While India was not as strong as Pakistan in cricket in 80s and 90s for what it’s worth we won 2 ICC tournaments in the 80s. What is your takeaway from that.

You can just say India currently across all 3 formats and all conditions might be the best it top 1-2 team and move on but you are clutching at straws and coming up with caveats.

Look ethan made great points there is no shame in admitting historically pak has been the better side outside asia anyone who doesn't agre on this is making a fool of himslef but now india has actually left pak behind which i admit even after getting better outside asia india record outside is similar to pak.

 

[Ab Fan]

India and Pakistan are at same level overseas if we look at their entire cricket history but it is the home conditions where India are so dominant and invincible while Pakistan have been treated as domestic Slave as teams like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe have beaten them at home.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

India and Pakistan are at same level overseas if we look at their entire cricket history but it is the home conditions where India are so dominant and invincible while Pakistan have been treated as domestic Slave as teams like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe have beaten them at home.

Bro it was those stupid pitches ramiz clown raja made flat tracks we know pak play spin better than sena teams the moment pak made spin pitches they thrashed england.

 

[Local.Dada]

Look ethan made great points there is no shame in admitting historically pak has been the better side outside asia anyone who doesn't agre on this is making a fool of himslef but now india has actually left pak behind which i admit even after getting better outside asia india record outside is similar to pak.

Historically is overreaching it. You can say there have been eras when one team (Ind/Pak) were better than the other. in this era India is not only better than Pakistan but a top side in the word and maybe the best across all formats which nether India or Pakistan were ever in a position to be in the past. I will take the blame on me then if that is what he was saying and I didnt understand. No issues there.

 

[Ab Fan]

Bro it was those stupid pitches ramiz clown raja made flat tracks we know pak play spin better than sena teams the moment pak made spin pitches they thrashed england.

I am talking entire history, not recent times.

Pakistan didn’t do that great at home even when they were very strong back in 90s. They had Saqlain, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib and you are losing test matches to Zimbabwe and several other home test matches to other nations.

Look at India when they are a strong team or even Sri Lanka when they were a strong team in 2000s or late 90s, they would hardly lose matches at home.

 

[kron]

What does any of that have to do with this:

Most Test Matches Won in SENA Countries by Asian Teams (Matches)

29 - (146)
29 - (172)*
9 - (74)
1 - (25)

Accept the past and move on.

Different teams across different eras

Compare by each country.

India does better in bouncier pitched of SA and aus.

India doesn't do well in swing friendly conditions of nz as much as oh wait pak sucks there too since 2010s.

And yes in England we both have equal amount of series wins. India doesn't do well in swing friendly conditions where Pakistan due to their ball tampering expertise fared better.

 

[ethan hunt]

Different teams across different eras

Compare by each country.

India does better in bouncier pitched of SA and aus.

India doesn't do well in swing friendly conditions of nz as much as oh wait pak sucks there too since 2010s.

And yes in England we both have equal amount of series wins. India doesn't do well in swing friendly conditions where Pakistan due to their ball tampering expertise fared better.

Indians couldnt even win after ball tampering. The team was awful and awful is an understatement.

 

[ethan hunt]

India and Pakistan are at same level overseas if we look at their entire cricket history but it is the home conditions where India are so dominant and invincible while Pakistan have been treated as domestic Slave as teams like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe have beaten them at home.

Lol india are nowhere near. Pak has the same number of wins in about 40-50 less matches. Its not even close. The term lions at home and lambs abroad was coined for indian cricket, while they may not be lions at home anymore after the Nz whitewash but they certainly are lambs no more. They have made progress.

 

[Mesozoic]

What does any of that have to do with this:

Most Test Matches Won in SENA Countries by Asian Teams (Matches)

29 - (146)
29 - (172)*
9 - (74)
1 - (25)

Accept the past and move on.

This "SENA" term holds no relevance when you take entire history's stats. Those 4 teams were not always the top 5 sides in the world at all times in the past. Only since 2014 does this make sense as all 4 of those were decent Test sides since then at the same time .

New Zealand before 2013 (McCullum took captaincy) were bang average right throughout their entire test history.

England were barely average in the throughout the 90s and until the 05 Ashes.

Those Pakistani stats are super inflated by beating a mediocre NZ side throughout the pre McCullum days. india always had much lesser games against them for some reason.

 

[ethan hunt]

This "SENA" term holds no relevance when you take entire history's stats. Those 4 teams were not always the top 5 sides in the world at all times in the past. Only since 2014 does this make sense as all 4 of those were decent Test sides since then at the same time .

New Zealand before 2013 (McCullum took captaincy) were bang average right throughout their entire test history.

England were barely average in the throughout the 90s and until the 05 Ashes.

Those Pakistani stats are super inflated by beating a mediocre NZ side throughout the pre McCullum days. india always had much lesser games against them for some reason.

Well if they werent decent than india should have beaten them more often. India were pretty poor back then. No need to be shy about it.

Sena didnt just become Sena when in 2014. Lol

 

[jnaveen1980]

NZ was a crap team in the 90s and early 2000s. England was also a crap team in the 90s. Genuinely best teams were SA and Australia. True measure is how well you do agianst them in their backyard. Do you guys remember Mohammad sami who finished with an epic average of 52 in Tests. He averaged 35 in NZ lol Akram averages 16. Akhtar averages 7 in NZ during that phase.

 

[Mesozoic]

Sena didnt just become Sena when in 2014. Lol

Except that it did. Before that , no one used to use this SENA acronym at all in cricketing circles.. It was always "outside the subcontinent" as West Indies were still a formidable side and even Zimbabwe were decent in the 90s..

Ofcourse Pakistan were better India for most of the 80s and 90s ... No doubts about it. But indian fans don't have that big of a memory or neither do they care what happened 3 decades ago. All this talk about India being a top travelling team started in this century (as if should) when Saurav took over.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Except that it did. Before that , no one used to use this SENA acronym at all in cricketing circles.. It was always "outside the subcontinent" as West Indies were still a formidable side and even Zimbabwe were decent in the 90s..

Ofcourse Pakistan were better India for most of the 80s and 90s ... No doubts about it. But indian fans don't have that big of a memory or neither do they care what happened 3 decades ago. All this talk about India being a top travelling team started in this century (as if should) when Saurav took over.

You gotta check after cameras were installed, third umpires were used, noballs were monitored. Back then too many fraudulent activities going on unnoticed.

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol india are nowhere near. Pak has the same number of wins in about 40-50 less matches. Its not even close. The term lions at home and lambs abroad was coined for indian cricket, while they may not be lions at home anymore after the Nz whitewash but they certainly are lambs no more. They have made progress.

Lol it seems you are living in the delusional world of 80s and 90s still. Your away record is nothing to write about and it is same or arguably even worse than Indian team.

West Indies were an ATG team in 80s but they were great in 90s and good in 00s also but all it took for Pakistan was 2016-17 series to finally achieve your first away test series win in West Indies against a minnowish Windies. India won their first test series in Windies in 2006 only and have been dominant there since then.

In addition, Pakistan never won a test series in Australia or South Africa either, India have already won two test series there.

Pakistan's away stats are highly inflated thanks to bashing England and New Zealand team of 90s who were highly mediocre team. They were 6th and 7th ranked test team of that era, basically same as Sri Lanka of 2015-2023 and current Bangladesh.

However, India when they weren't a strong team still had great record at home like in 90s. They never lost a home series or a match to Sri Lanka or Bangladesh though. Pakistan got whitewashed to BD.

 

[kron]

Indians couldnt even win after ball tampering. The team was awful and awful is an understatement.

Indians dint ball tamper like the Pakistanis though.

Pakistan are pioneers in ball tampering.

 

[Buffet]

You gotta check after cameras were installed, third umpires were used, noballs were monitored. Back then too many fraudulent activities going on unnoticed.

Your statement is likely to be correct for home but not for away. I don't think those made much difference in Pakistan's away performance. Nuetral umpires came in 1994.

Pakistan's W/L away till 1994: 0.5
Pakistan's W/L away after 1994: 0.5

Pakistan's W/L home till 1994: 4
Pakistan's W/L after after 1994: 1

Pakistan's home record flipped like a switch after nuetral umpires came while away record remains the same.

Some one may argue that in huge time periods like 30-40 years teams changes , but you can do this same exercise for 10 years before neutral umpires came and 10 years after. Home W/L dropped from 6 to 1 while away remained the same for both periods. No ther team had flip switch like this for those 20 years period in home. Pakistan had Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Anwar, Inzzy, Saqlain so it was nothing to do with Pakistan becoming weaker after nuetral umpires. We all know the reasons but let's not get into that.

Bottomline, Pakistan's away performance was genuine and due to playing good cricket and not due to non-cricketing reasons. That's why it remained the same. No flip switch happened for away peformances. Away performance is clean record more or less and reflects the ability of teams and players. You can very quickly see where everyone stood in away performance and it will be very close to their ability as a player.

 

[big_gamer007]

That’s why Lanka has done well in England, they are the last South Asian team to win a series there, and India before that and Pakistan before that.

Pakistani batsmen are overrated when it comes to winning series in England is taken into account, they are nothing without YK overall.

Pakistani batting has been historically poor in tests compared to other big cricket playing nations.

YK was a great player but he struggled massively when pitch had some juice in it. His last series in England he was jumping like a headless bunny and then scored 200+ on a flattish pitch. He is one of the best players of spin and slow pitches but he faces same issue against the moving ball like most sub continent batsmen have.

Pakistani bowling has been historically been their stronger side, their batting has been poor apart from couple of seasons of Yousuf Youhana where he was an actual beast.

 

[Buffet]

Indians dint ball tamper like the Pakistanis though.

Pakistan are pioneers in ball tampering.

10 year before nuetral umpire - Pakistan's W/L at home : 6
10 years after nuetral umpires - Pakistan's W/L at home : 1



10 year before nuetral umpire - Pakistan's W/L at away : 1
10 years after nuetral umpires - Pakistan's W/L at away : 1

Home performances dropped like a rock in water when Pakistan had players like Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Saqalain, Anwar, Inzzy playing for them after nuetral umpire so it was not the case of team becoming weak suddenly. It was team being too dependent on reverse and it became different ball game with cameras and nuetral umpires. Otherwise it's just unimaginable to see W/L dropping from 6 to 1 with those players.

Concludion, ball tampering may have been the factor for Pakistan doing so well at home but it was pretty much a non-factor when playing away. Away performance remained constant more of less. Pakistan's SENA or outside of Asia record is genuine record and there is no reason to think non-cricketing stuff played a part. Same can't be said about the home but discussion is about away here.

That's why where players stand in away record gives a clear picture of their ability when compared to peers worldwide. It was true in pre nuetral umpires days and true across era as well. After thinking more on it, I may start rating some players below ATG level if they are lacking big time away despite having a great over all record in pre-nuetral umpires days.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Your statement is likely to be correct for home but not for away. I don't think those made much difference in Pakistan's away performance. Nuetral umpires came in 1994.

Pakistan's W/L away till 1994: 0.5
Pakistan's W/L away after 1994: 0.5

Pakistan's W/L home till 1994: 4
Pakistan's W/L after after 1994: 1

Pakistan's home record flipped like a switch after nuetral umpires came while away record remains the same.

Some one may argue that in huge time periods like 30-40 years teams changes , but you can do this same exercise for 10 years before neutral umpires came and 10 years after. Home W/L dropped from 6 to 1 while away remained the same for both periods. No ther team had flip switch like this for those 20 years period in home. Pakistan had Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Anwar, Inzzy, Saqlain so it was nothing to do with Pakistan becoming weaker after nuetral umpires. We all know the reasons but let's not get into that.

Bottomline, Pakistan's away performance was genuine and due to playing good cricket and not due to non-cricketing reasons. That's why it remained the same. No flip switch happened for away peformances. Away performance is clean record more or less and reflects the ability of teams and players. You can very quickly see where everyone stood in away performance and it will be very close to their ability as a player.

Pakistan has greatest decline in the home W/L record after neutral umpires came into picture and bringing of technology.
Rest of the world more or less had the same. I did this exercise a couple of months back, the most blatant discrepancy in lbw of top batters were from Pakistan and WI. Rest of the countries were more or less the same.

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan has greatest decline in the home W/L record after neutral umpires came into picture and bringing of technology.
Rest of the world more or less had the same.

Yes, difference in performance ( dropping from 6 to 1 ) at home 10 years before and 10 years after is just shocking given away remained the same.

For this reason, away record is very good indicator of players ability even in older era. All players can be safely compared with peers in away performance because non-cricketing factor won't be present. Across eras comparison is also much more reliable with away performance. You see the actual ability of players even if they played in older era.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Yes, difference in performance ( dropping from 6 to 1 ) at home 10 years before and 10 years after is just shocking given away remained the same.

For this reason, away record is very good indicator of players ability even in older era. All players can be safely compared with peers in away performance because non-cricketing factor won't be present. Across eras comparison is also much more reliable with away performance. You see the actual ability of players even if they played in older era.

I have said before, just like we dont compare batting averages and SR of batsmen of 80s and 90s to players of now. It doesnt make sense making 1 on 1 comparison for bowlers of the past.
Fast bowlers of past could get away with no balls like crazy and we have no way of knowing how they would have faired under cameras. Same goes to criteria about lbws and stuff.

Else Rizwan is better than Lara
Today's bowlers should get more respect than they deserves when comparing with the past ones. They are under much more scrutiny and rules have shifted dramatically in favor of batsmen.
Across era comparison will always be a pain unless you have Bradman type anomaly that no one can dispute or ignore.

 

[Buffet]

I have said before, just like we dont compare batting averages and SR of batsmen of 80s and 90s to players of now. It doesnt make sense making 1 on 1 comparison for bowlers of the past.
Fast bowlers of past could get away with no balls like crazy and we have no way of knowing how they would have faired under cameras. Same goes to criteria about lbws and stuff.

Else Rizwan is better than Lara
Today's bowlers should get more respect than they deserves when comparing with the past ones. They are under much more scrutiny and rules have shifted dramatically in favor of batsmen.
Across era comparison will always be a pain unless you have Bradman type anomaly that no one can dispute or ignore.

But you can see who stood out in their own era. Marshall, McGrath, Steyn, Bumrah stood out in thier eras and even across era comaprison shows that they produced most match winning spells when playing away. So you can still do across era comparisons. Point noted about no ball, WI bowlers got away many times with that. So across era is not perfect, but away across era is pretty close to accurate.

 

[Buffet]

I have said before, just like we dont compare batting averages and SR of batsmen of 80s and 90s to players of now. It doesnt make sense making 1 on 1 comparison for bowlers of the past.
Fast bowlers of past could get away with no balls like crazy and we have no way of knowing how they would have faired under cameras. Same goes to criteria about lbws and stuff.

Else Rizwan is better than Lara
Today's bowlers should get more respect than they deserves when comparing with the past ones. They are under much more scrutiny and rules have shifted dramatically in favor of batsmen.
Across era comparison will always be a pain unless you have Bradman type anomaly that no one can dispute or ignore.

ODI has constantly evolved so it's useless to compare raw stats across eras. Only way to compare players is to see how they did against peers in ODI.

In test, you can take away performance and still compare across eras. Less non-cricketing stuff comes in away performance and test cricket has not changed much.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

ODI has constantly evolved so it's useless to compare raw stats across eras. Only way to compare players is to see how they did against peers in ODI.

In test, you can take away performance and still compare across eras. Less non-cricketing stuff comes in away performance and test cricket has not changed much.

Scrutiny on no balls bhai, I believe the pacers of today are getting underrated dramatically compared to those of past.
We don't know whether any of those chucked or how many no balls got missed. neither was the protective gear as good in the past. How many tampered with the balls, we don't know and will never know.
Spinners of past similarly should get more credit because lbw was rarely given after a long long stride forward till we got the DRS. or playing against Pakistani batsmen in Pakistan would have ruined a lot of bowling stats. Miandad had zero lbw at home in first 10 years of his career.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

But you can see who stood out in their own era. Marshall, McGrath, Steyn, Bumrah stood out in thier eras and even across era comaprison shows that they produced most match winning spells when playing away. So you can still do across era comparisons. Point noted about no ball, WI bowlers got away many times with that. So across era is not perfect, but away across era is pretty close to accurate.

They stood high among their peers but how objectively can we compare these greats of their eras will always be hard. Any subjective assessment will always be prone to our individual bias. Still its always fun

 

[uppercut]

In test, you can take away performance and still compare across eras. Less non-cricketing stuff comes in away performance and test cricket has not changed much.

Test Cricket has changed dramatically in the last approx 15 yrs or so. The main reasons are:

1. DRS ( this took care of rogue or simply incompetent umpires and at the same time ensured that batting techniques have changed. Spinners have benefited from this long overdue change)
2. T20 Cricket - This has produced far more attacking batsmen
3. TV Coverage with dozens of cameras that track EVERYTHING and the incredible data analysis that can be used to the hearts content.

 

[Buffet]

They stood high among their peers but how objectively can we compare these greats of their eras will always be hard. Any subjective assessment will always be prone to our individual bias. Still its always fun

You may not get exact comparison across era by seeing who stood out in their era, but it's a good proxy of top 8-10 bowlers or batsmen in entire history. I won't have strong opinion on Viv Vs SRT, but I am comfortable in rating them as top batsmen in history due to standing out in their era. Same way, I am comfortable to rate Marshall and McGrath as among the best in history due to standing out in their eras.

Think about it this way. Preofessional cricket is 50-60 years old. If some one is best bowler or best batsman in 10 years period then they make the cut. You end up with 8-10 bowlers and 8-10 batsmen accounting for some overlapping periods. I am pretty sure those 20 players will be absolute top notch.

Yah, we shouldn't hype 6th best bowler of any era and say that he is among the top 10-12 bowlers in history. Or take 6th best bowler of 90s and claim that he is better than best bowler of 2010s or 2020s. That's just silly. It defies all logic. If you can't be even top 2 in your era then you certainly don't belong in top 10 in entire history.

 

[Buffet]

Test Cricket has changed dramatically in the last approx 15 yrs or so. The main reasons are:

1. DRS ( this took care of rogue or simply incompetent umpires and at the same time ensured that batting techniques have changed. Spinners have benefited from this long overdue change)
2. T20 Cricket - This has produced far more attacking batsmen
3. TV Coverage with dozens of cameras that track EVERYTHING and the incredible data analysis that can be used to the hearts content.

Yes, agreed. It has changed. But change is much lower than ODI cricket. It's about rate of change.

You can still compare test across era but in ODI it's just meanigless. Not slight off but totally meaningless.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Yes, agreed. It has changed. But change is much lower than ODI cricket. It's about rate of change.

You can still compare test across era but in ODI it's just meanigless. Not slight off but totally meaningless.

Even in Tests I would say we have 3 or 4 major eras
1. Till World War 2 : Only England and Australia
2. 1950- 1980s : Expansion of cricket post colonial times
3. 1980-1994 : Professional cricket but no neutral umpires
4. 1994-2010: Professional cricket, neutral umpires, third umpire but NO DRS
5. 2010 - to present: DRS and impact of T20

If we study the trends, I believe we will see very unique trends specific to these times.
Some data does get distorted in Tests from non-cricketing reasons and is significant becase number of tests played is low.
Kerry Packer defections in the late 70s and utter decline of Zimbabwe in 2000s and dumb entry of Bangladesh in Test cricket in 99.

 

[BouncerGuy]

India has just lost 1 series against Kiwis at home and people started calling India average. They are not. They are still beasts at home especially.

 

[jnaveen1980]

India has just lost 1 series against Kiwis at home and people started calling India average. They are not. They are still beasts at home especially.

But that is the biggest blot in Indian cricket history I think. This is why people are still mad at Rohit sharma who checked out the whole series as a captain, batsman, fielder everything. He just ruined it for us. Even if we win this 5-0 here (which we won't) that loss will hurt us forever.

 

[BouncerGuy]

But that is the biggest blot in Indian cricket history I think. This is why people are still mad at Rohit sharma who checked out the whole series as a captain, batsman, fielder everything. He just ruined it for us. Even if we win this 5-0 here (which we won't) that loss will hurt us forever.

Yep. That was a pathetic performance from India in that series and it is gonna hurt and hurt long but 1 series does not make a team good or bad.

 

[kron]

Yep. That was a pathetic performance from India in that series and it is gonna hurt and hurt long but 1 series does not make a team good or bad.

I want to thrash out rohit tbh. No accountability at all
Loser

 

[Vikram1989]

One should.also consider jadeja kind of bowlers.he has not bowled a no ball till 3rd umpire started taking care of no balls as he hangs his feet in the air while bowling. Blatant cheating of home / neutral umpires till drs arrival was one more pathetic factor . I remember the pak robbed of series victory in wi with atrocious home umpiring .same goes for Hobart test and Sydney is the pinnacle of biased and incompetent neutral umpiring. Lots of sena players were happy to hide their bat behind pads against spin and escape lbw.

 

[Vikram1989]

I want to thrash out rohit tbh. No accountability at all
Loser

He proudly said all the players are his choice for odi wc in a press conference.sky was a huge failure and rohit never took responsibility for that.so u can't expect accountability and responsibility for that pr leader. Selection committee made kl as captain for next series after wc finals,so u can't expect them too

 

[kron]

One should.also consider jadeja kind of bowlers.he has not bowled a no ball till 3rd umpire started taking care of no balls as he hangs his feet in the air while bowling. Blatant cheating of home / neutral umpires till drs arrival was one more pathetic factor . I remember the pak robbed of series victory in wi with atrocious home umpiring .same goes for Hobart test and Sydney is the pinnacle of biased and incompetent neutral umpiring. Lots of sena players were happy to hide their bat behind pads against spin and escape lbw.

now in drs we will see their aukaad

south africa and escpecially nz do lot of pitch tampering when asian teams tour

 

[jnaveen1980]

now in drs we will see their aukaad

south africa and escpecially nz do lot of pitch tampering when asian teams tour

SA never plays at Durban in a long time. Last time 2013. That is the only SA pitch that helps spinners. Last time Jaddu took 6 wickets.