Has PTI surrendered to the Establishment and PDM?

I find it surprising when people say that Imran Khan has awoken the public to the true power that is the Establishment. The Army has ruled Pakistan directly for the majority of it's history and indirectly for most of the minority. They've deposed, arrested and even killed Prime Minsters. Imran Khan himself is on the record saying he used to call the ISI for support on difficult votes.

If the public still wasn't clear on who it was that really ran the country, I doubt one more rigged election has really opened the eyes of the masses.
 
They placed zardari in jail and made cuts on his tongue.

Ppp's govt was twice dethrone by pmln.

The 90s was all about pmln going after ppp. It was only when musharaffe came that pmln learned its lesson.

But even during all that fighting, both parties worked in making the constitution better like taking the powers away from president.

As the democratic started to shape, they fixed there differences with it along the way.

Pti will only learn when imran leaves
Yes they did overthrow each other and yes Zardari was thrown in jail because N.S. had Military Establishment's backing but Zardari is no saint quite the opposite actually. He has done the same thing to his opposition in Sindh. The 90's was also all about the Zardari doing corruption and killing off his political opponents in Sindh including target killing of Benazir Bhutto's brother and extra judicial killings in Karachi. They worked for constitutional amendments for their own benefits but didn't do a single constitutional reform to curb the power of Military Establishment because they all thought that they can use Military Establishment against each other.

Even after Musharraf, both the parties didn't learn Jack **** and threw the Misaq-e-Jamohriyat in the river and became puppets in the hands of Establishment when they were in opposition. Only when people got sick and tired of their games and realized that they are both corrupt and started following Imran Khan and gave him power in 2018 that they and Military Establishment realized that due to their infighting, a third political force from outside the status quo has come to the fore. Military Establishment started backing both of the corrupt opposition parties secretly since they were also corrupt and when Imran was ousted by conspiracy, they thought that public will not come out on streets like before and he will go quietly into the night like all the others before him and will not expose their conspiracy and they were proven wrong on both accounts and for the first time, Pakistanis gradually started realizing that it's not just the political parties that are corrupt but Military Establishment is corrupt to the core as well and are part of the status quo and only has their own best interests at heart.

We all know that they still want to hate each other in public and are only united along with Military Establishment due to Imran Khan and will continue to do so as long as Imran Khan is there and will start their wrestling entertainment again for public consumption if Imran Khan is out of the picture so if you want them to stay united even as a facade, then you should really thank Imran Khan.

It doesn't matter anymore if Imran Khan leaves or if PTI will learn or not after Imran leaves because the Corrupt Military Establishment along with Corrupt Political Parties will have to face the younger generation for decades to come and are going to have to rig every election for at least the next three decades or install Marshal Law because these two brutal years of oppression, injustice and torture are now imbedded in the minds of younger generation and have shaped them for generations to come.
 
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The poster above is right though, the Establishment will need a massive PR building exercise for atleast a decade to be trusted by average Pakistani youngster now.

If no issue occurs between Indian and Pakistani military I doubt they will ever be able to keep up the budget and the respect they used to have.

Who knows maybe this might make the Establishment finally again sit down and talk with GOI.
 
Because here public is even wealthier compared to the government... they just love to raise dust and create hype on social media but in reality most of them are living peacefully.
The people who were wealthy are getting wealthier, the upper middle class has been lowered to middle class and middle class to lower middle class and lower middle class to poor and poor to poorer which are then turning to crimes. Why do you think the beggars have increased and the crime rates have increased? The beggars and criminals don't come out of thin air you know!!! They are a product of our country's economy. You might be living peacefully but the majority of the country isn't and day by day it's getting really hard to live let alone peacefully.
 
As I said before, the real issue for PTI is that the PTI supporters are absolute cowards with no courage. They cannot walk the talk.

History has never seen such cowards before and remember, no cowards ever brought a revolution.

Since the treatment dished out on May 9, they have ran

Their leader got arrested. Not a whimper. Their electoral victory got usurped. Not a whimper.

All of this is happening because PTI supporters don’t have the courage to take to the streets and lockdown the federal and provincial capitals without the establishment on their side and without the establishment funding and promoting their chaos.

If PTI supporters were tasked with leading the French Revolution, they would have ran away with the first cannon fired by the French royal troops and the monarchy would have continued on their merry ways.

PTI supporters can be divided into two groups: the overseas lot who love their foreign passports more than they love Imran and the local lot who are not willing to fight.

Both are scared and both are cowards in equal measure. They are hiding in their homes watching their leader and their part taken apart and they are only observing. If you are going to only observe then don’t complain.
 
As I said before, the real issue for PTI is that the PTI supporters are absolute cowards with no courage. They cannot walk the talk.

History has never seen such cowards before and remember, no cowards ever brought a revolution.

Since the treatment dished out on May 9, they have ran with their tails tucked between their legs.

Their leader got arrested. Not a whimper. Their electoral victory got usurped. Not a whimper.

All of this is happening because PTI supporters don’t have the courage to take to the streets and lockdown the federal and provincial capitals without the establishment on their side and without the establishment funding and promoting their chaos.

If PTI supporters were tasked with leading the French Revolution, they would have ran away with the first cannon fired by the French royal troops and the monarchy would have continued on their merry ways.

PTI supporters can be divided into two groups: the overseas lot who love their foreign passports more than they love Imran and the local lot who are not willing to fight.

Both are scared and both are cowards in equal measure. They are hiding in their homes watching their leader and their part taken apart and they are only observing. If you are going to only observe then don’t complain.
So if they protest peacefully and work within the system they are cowards, if they protest violently they are criminals(May9) .

I think you like to just take the opposite view of majority for the sake of it.
 
So if they protest peacefully and work within the system they are cowards, if they protest violently they are criminals(May9) .

I think you like to just take the opposite view of majority for the sake of it.


They are not protesting peacefully and working within the system because they believe in doing that. No group of supporters have caused more harm and done more damage to the nation than PTI supporters have over the last 10 years.

They are and were criminals. The only difference is that they were previously backed by the establishment and now they are not, and they are too cowardly to fight the establishment.

They are hiding in their homes watching everything unfold in front of their eyes because they don’t have the guts to fight for themselves and their leader.
 
I find it surprising when people say that Imran Khan has awoken the public to the true power that is the Establishment. The Army has ruled Pakistan directly for the majority of it's history and indirectly for most of the minority. They've deposed, arrested and even killed Prime Minsters. Imran Khan himself is on the record saying he used to call the ISI for support on difficult votes.

If the public still wasn't clear on who it was that really ran the country, I doubt one more rigged election has really opened the eyes of the masses.

The truth is Pakistani people have always backed the military establishment, that is why there has never been any hint of revolution. They don't trust their elected governments beyond a local level where their local MPs might get them a new road built, or help get their naughty nephew off a pesky murder charge.

This is the first time in Pakistan's history where the public are starting to wonder just what the Pakistan military stands for, and whose interests they are protecting. Whether they'll actually do anything about it is another matter, as long as people aren't starving and they keep getting influx of IMF money to kick the can further down the road, we might not see much beyond a few murmers in the tea shops.
 
The truth is Pakistani people have always backed the military establishment, that is why there has never been any hint of revolution. They don't trust their elected governments beyond a local level where their local MPs might get them a new road built, or help get their naughty nephew off a pesky murder charge.

This is the first time in Pakistan's history where the public are starting to wonder just what the Pakistan military stands for, and whose interests they are protecting. Whether they'll actually do anything about it is another matter, as long as people aren't starving and they keep getting influx of IMF money to kick the can further down the road, we might not see much beyond a few murmers in the tea shops.
What really turns general dissatisfaction and low level 'murmurs in tea shops' into a mass level uprising and civil disobedience movement that overthrows long established authority is so mysterious and will of the wisp.

Who would've thought that after years of oppression, inflation and corruption, the self-immolation of a street vendor in Tunisia would ignite the storm that would depose a dictator at two decades in power and spark the Arab Spring?

Whether Pakistan is ready for a spark like that and if it is, what it would be, is useless to speculate for an Indian like me or a second/third generation immigrant like you. The in-Pakistan voices don't have any consensus on this forum or maybe they're just being drowned out by a few overvocal contrarians who like to provoke. Even so, you're probably right. It seems unlikely.
 
As I said before, the real issue for PTI is that the PTI supporters are absolute cowards with no courage. They cannot walk the talk.

History has never seen such cowards before and remember, no cowards ever brought a revolution.

Since the treatment dished out on May 9, they have ran.

Their leader got arrested. Not a whimper. Their electoral victory got usurped. Not a whimper.

All of this is happening because PTI supporters don’t have the courage to take to the streets and lockdown the federal and provincial capitals without the establishment on their side and without the establishment funding and promoting their chaos.

If PTI supporters were tasked with leading the French Revolution, they would have ran away with the first cannon fired by the French royal troops and the monarchy would have continued on their merry ways.

PTI supporters can be divided into two groups: the overseas lot who love their foreign passports more than they love Imran and the local lot who are not willing to fight.

Both are scared and both are cowards in equal measure. They are hiding in their homes watching their leader and their part taken apart and they are only observing. If you are going to only observe then don’t complain.
PTI supporters, most of whom on this forum are not even living in pakistan, made big noise about how Imran is the red line. We were told if establishment touches him there will be a revolution. That poor guy is in prison for six months now, none of the overseas Pakistanis have returned to Pakistan to support their beloved leader. He has got multiple convictions, denied fair participation in elections, and now being slowly pushed to being has been of Pakistan history. Absolutely nothing. Look at the kind of farm protests in India, anti government protest in SL, etc. You are right, PTI supporters are all talk and no action. They sit comfortably in their western homes and preach from behind the screens.
 
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Haha! what surrender even after rigging and and all fishy stuff the one with largest majority today in National Assembly will be PTI backed candidates, more power to IK, hopefully Ali Muhammad Khan will deliver another goose-bumping speech like he did in VoNc session.
 
PTI supporters, most of whom on this forum are not even living in pakistan, made big noise about how Imran is the red line. We were told if establishment touches him there will be a revolution. That poor guy is in prison for six months now, none of the overseas Pakistanis have returned to Pakistan to support their beloved leader. He has got multiple convictions, denied fair participation in elections, and now being slowly pushed to being has been of Pakistan history. Absolutely nothing. Look at the kind of farm protests in India, anti government protest in SL, etc. You are right, PTI supporters are all talk and no action. They sit comfortably in their western homes and preach from behind the screens.

This sort of comment is just lazy and not particularly clever. Why would westerners sitting comfortably in their homes be responsible for what happens in Pakistan? The only people who should be responsible for the welfare of Pakistan is the people of Pakistan themselves.

If PTI is a party of western supporters, then that means local Pakistanis all support the Establishment and the old established parties led by the Bhutto and Sharif clans right? Between the three of them they ran Pakistan for all but a few years during the best part of a century. Wow, they must have done a bang up job to get the country to where it is today. Congratulations.
 
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PTI supporters, most of whom on this forum are not even living in pakistan, made big noise about how Imran is the red line. We were told if establishment touches him there will be a revolution. That poor guy is in prison for six months now, none of the overseas Pakistanis have returned to Pakistan to support their beloved leader. He has got multiple convictions, denied fair participation in elections, and now being slowly pushed to being has been of Pakistan history. Absolutely nothing. Look at the kind of farm protests in India, anti government protest in SL, etc. You are right, PTI supporters are all talk and no action. They sit comfortably in their western homes and preach from behind the screens.
Exactly. These people used to claim that they left Pakistan because of corrupt leadership but when their leader came into power in 2018, they made a million excuses for why they wouldn’t return to Pakistan.

These people cannot walk the talk. They love their foreign passports more than they love Pakistan or Imran khan, and their support is limited to social media only.

Imran has suffered defeat for only one reason: his supporters are cowards. They can talk about the establishment and “foreign interference” all they want, but it is the people, the masses, that hold the real power.

They say that the mandate of the people was not respected. Of course it was not respected. The mandate of cowards and gutless people will never be respected.

I dislike Imran Khan, but one thing I would not shy fro admitting that he has more courage than all his supporters put together. If they had a semblance of courage and persistence than their leader does, he would not be in the position he is today.

Imran has been let down not by the establishment and the opposition but by his own supporters and he will spend the rest of his days contemplating if these people were worth fighting for.
 
IK is a cult figure, so whatever he does, he will be praised. Some groups of our public have become radicalized, especially the youth who are in the majority, making Pakistan one of the scariest places to live. The religious extremism forced upon this nation has become a real enemy of the country. Now, these young people will carry this thinking into the next generation and beyond. While the first-grade Muslims, who are Arabs, are progressing in every department of life and becoming more liberal day by day, on the other hand, we are no less than third-grade Muslims, becoming religious zombies day by day.

IK has simply exploited the popular narrative of using religion very well with the help of the establishment.

Even if IK leaves politics, the damage has been done, and we must prepare to reap the bitter fruits for many years to come
Whether he is or isn't, it has gone beyond him now. It isn't about him or whatever he does, or if he will be praised or not anymore. It's about the younger generation realizing who their real enemy is and standing up peacefully against them by casting their votes via ballot. What is radical about it? If some groups of our public have been radicalized, especially the youth, then who has done it? The Establishment creating religious extremist and ethno-extremist groups like TLP, MQM, and others because they want to divide and rule, akin to their predecessors, The British Empire. They aim to create fault lines, dividing the nation along sectarian and linguistic lines so they can easily control us. This nation won't be united against them, and they will continue to loot and plunder along with other elite mafias. That's why the Establishment controlling this nation for 76 years is the real enemy of this country.

These younger people have recognized the real enemy and will carry this thinking into the next generation and beyond. Nobody is a first or third-grade Muslim, except by their good character. The Arabs are not progressing and becoming more liberal day by day. By your definition of liberalism and progressiveness, Russia and Egypt are the most liberal and progressive countries in the world. There's no democracy or human rights in those countries, but at least the women there are allowed to dance semi-naked because that's what you think the definition of liberalism and progressiveness is. They are no better Muslims than us, and let's not go over who is a better Muslim and who isn't. The younger people are not zombies anymore, and they proved that in these elections, and that's what scares the Establishment.

Thankfully, Imran Khan has used religion to teach the young people about the true message of Islam, which is to get true independence and break the shackles of slavery physically and mentally. He has brought the majority of young people back from religious extremism towards the true message of Islam, uniting them from Sindh to Gilgit Baltistan. The Establishment does not want that.

You're right that even if Imran Khan leaves politics, the damage has been done. It is the damage to the Establishment's reputation and credibility and the one-sided love that people had for them in their hearts. Their hearts might have been broken, but it is for the better in the long run that the public now knows the real truth, and the Establishment should prepare to reap the bitter fruits for many years to come.
 
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Imran has been let down not by the establishment and the opposition but by his own supporters and he will spend the rest of his days contemplating if these people were worth fighting for.

Agreed. He has probably been thinking that every minute of every day since 2022.
 
For anyone who looks from the outside, they must be wondering why don't these supposed home based Pakistanis ever take responsibility for what happens in their own country?
 
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I believe AZ has accomplished some splendid work for the political system in the long term. Snatching power from the president and allocating provinces their share were very good steps.

NS was a good administrator and diplomat. Whenever he held power, he endeavored to bring our neighbors closer to us and improved economic activities, which are significant advantages for any underdeveloped country like Pakistan. We should not forget the significant steps he took to not only invite Vajpayee but also Modi to Pakistan for historical tours. Unfortunately, both times the army sabotaged his efforts by initiating the Kargil war and the Pathankot incident. These actions resulted in Modi taking a hard but necessary step to boycott any relations with Pakistan. His policy proved effective for him and his country, as they are standing at peak economic growth in their entire history.

Current Pakistans politics scenarios and system is just a copy paste of India's politics in 70s, 80s and 90s
I believe AZ did those things for him and his cronies' own personal gains and to further strengthen this corrupt political system. Nothing AZ does is out of the kindness of his heart or for the good of the people. Snatching power from the president was just a move by NS to have everybody under his thumb so he could rule like a corrupt king, but he didn't realize that without curbing the powers of Military Establishment, his dream cannot be achieved, and Military Establishment later found other ways like their moral and financial corruption to blackmail them. Allocating provinces their share was done at the behest of AZ because even if in the future PPP doesn't win elections and form a federal government. he can still with the help of Establishment form a provincial government in Sindh and AZ and Establishment can continue to loot and plunder Sindh and Federal govt. will not be able to intervene due to 18th amendment. That's the reality of these so-called good steps.

N.S. is a good dealer and an ass kisser for his own interests. Whenever he held power, he endeavored to bring our neighbors closer to himself and improved his personal economic activities, which were significant for a corrupt politician like N.S. We should not forget the significant step he took to secretly invite and Meet Sajjan Jindal in Pakistan without a visa for his own personal business interest and not Pakistan. Not denying what Military Establishment has done in Kargil but Pathankot incident is controversial in India itself. Even in India, people think that this incident was a false flag operation. Modi was always openly anti Pakistan even before N.S. invited him and even before Pathankot Incident. The Pathankot incident was done so Modi can bash Pakistan and increase his popularity in India. India was already boycotting us since 2008 and Modi was never going to undo that. It was all about N.S. personal relationship and business outside Pakistan with Sajjan Jindal and Mukesh Ambani. India's actual economic growth didn't happen because they boycotted Pakistan. It actually started happening in Manmohan Singh's tenure and it also happened because they don't have a corrupt political system backed by a corrupt Military Establishment looking for their own personal gain.
India's political scenario in 70's, 80's and 90's was actually much better and more lenient towards minorities minus Kashmir and some riots that happened every 3 to 4 years and a religious extremist party was not in power spreading hate and fascism towards minorities in India. I don't think that Pakistan's political scenario today is lenient towards minorities thanks to Military Establishment who wants to create and control these pockets of religious extremist groups in order to control the nation and primarily Punjabis.
 
But he is the only political leader who built the narrative of being an honest and corruption free person but what happened we all know.
So an honest and corruption free person can't make mistakes? I hope you're talking about genuine mistakes out of naivety and not something else.
 
PTI cannot surrender to the establishment, that's a contradiction

PTI as it currently stands can be seen as a splinter group of the establishment gone rogue. The proof is only in the pudding when you have guys like Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Pervez Elahi and Omar Ayub holding senior positions.

With the way things are panning out it looks like the current establishment headed by Asim Munir wants to not just get rid of PTI as a party but also the fragments of the establishment that have hooked their claws deep into PTI.

Although I have never encouraged establishment meddling, if the current group can get rid of PTI and as well as the aforementioned establishment figures than this will be a great move by killing two birds - the toxic rhetoric of Imran Khan and the power of Waderas and the elite class (to an extent)- with one stone
It doesn't matter if PTI can or can't surrender to the Military Establishment and if it's a contradiction or not because it's not about just PTI anymore.

It doesn't even matter if PTI can or can't be seen as a splinter group of the Military establishment gone rogue because the majority of young Pakistanis now see all of the Military Establishment as one organized corrupt mafia which does not care one iota about Pakistan and never did whether it's the splinter rogue group or the current one headed by Asim Munir. In young Pakistani's eyes, they're all the same. You are right in that these people you mentioned were or maybe still are close to Military Establishment even though two of them are in jails for six months in their old ages and standing their grounds by showing loyalty to Imran Khan when they could've easily saved their skin and say yes to whatever Military Establishment was offering them. Omar Ayub was also imprisoned, beaten and tortured and still didn't leave PTI and that's why Imran Khan can't remove these three from PTI for now even though they might still be close to some groups of Military Establishment.
You're right that Asim's Military Establishment wants to get rid of PTI just like Musharraf's Military Establishment wanted to get rid of N.S. and B.B. but we all know what happened. They only succeeded in getting rid of B.B. by killing her via A.Z. but N.S. and A.Z. saved their skin by making a deal with U.S. and General Kiyani who along with International Establishment (U.S.) pressured General Musharraf to make a deal with them because nobody can get rid of any political party unless the majority of people wants it to and this election results have shown that.
As far as Asim Munir removing the fragments of Military Establishment that have hooked their claws deep into PTI, he would be doing PTI a favor and majority of Pakistanis could care less about those fragments of Military Establishment getting removed from Military, but we all know the truth that Asim Munir just wants to get rid of Imran Khan and not PTI and wants to control PTI by installing his own men in PTI like Sher Afzal Marwat and hooking his claws deep into PTI. Deep down, he's no different than the other generals before him and wants to continue meddling in politics.

Whether you want them to or not, they will continue to do it unless we the people get up and say enough is enough. The current group only wants to eliminate Imran Khan and the previous group of Military Establishment & do the same thing which the previous group was doing which is to control PTI like every other political party in Pakistan. The only difference is that the previous group thought in the beginning that they could control Imran Khan through blackmailing and other means but later realized that they can't and tried to eliminate him via attempted assassination & current group wants to eliminate him from the get-go but is afraid of public's reaction & has installed people like Sher Afzal Marwat to elevate him as an alternate of Imran Khan to calm the situation down after this group eliminates Imran Khan like AZ did after B.B's assassination, but if that ever happens, a more extremist and separatist leader will emerge from public calling for armed struggle against this group & majority of young Pakistanis will follow him because of the hate they have now in their hearts for Military Establishment which might be great move for you but will not be good for this country.

Irrespective of Whether Imran Khan's rhetoric is toxic or not, the fact is that it has woken the young generation to fight for their basic and fundamental right to vote and elect who they want to and the realization that the Military Establishment was never against the power of Waderas and elite class not even to an extent, and not only they were part of this corrupt elite mafia of waderas and elite class but they were infact heading this corrupt elite mafia and their only enemy which they want to control by abducting, torturing and killing is us Pakistanis . So, if you're happy that they want to get rid of Imran Khan and control PTI with their uncontrolled & unbridled power, then that's fine by me but they won't stop there and will go after others but what they can't get rid of is young generation and that's what scares them. The Military Establishment's time is up. It's just a matter of time however many years or decades that may be, but they will outlive this old man's club.
 
They’re too busy making TikToks and playing PUBG.

Falsely accuse someone of Blasphemy and they’ll come out like there’s no tomorrow.
Well the people who voted in unprecedented numbers on 8th February were not busy making Tiktoks and playing PUBG.

There is a section of religious extremists that does that and majority of them from madrasas and that's why Imran Khan wanted to bring modern education into these madrasas and he even started doing that but the religious mullahs stopped him from doing that and afraid that it will lessen their control over these students and they will start asking question to them about their bogus ideologies. Ideally, there should be a single home grown education system in this country but we are still stuck between Lord Meckalay's old education system and sectarian style repressive madarsa education system.
 
its pretty common now, and every media channel accepts that PTI was made and funded by the establishment. To say PTI is was not created by the establishment and than says my views are not realistic is really ironic.

Atleast accept your party's basis. And plz, PTI has no ideology. They are still confused and looking for one.
Okay let's go with your common theory even though you didn't bring up any valid points and instead brought up Pakistani media channels who seriously lack any sort of credibility and are in complete control of their owners who are in turn complete control of corrupt Military Establishment. Let's say PTI was made and funded by Military Establishment. Then I ask you these questions?

1. What was stopping the Military Establishment from installing Imran Khan in Punjab as CM right away like they did with N.S.?
2. What was stopping the Military Establishment from installing Imran Khan in 2002 as P.M. like they did with N.S. in 1990? It would've been a perfect time for them to do it.
3. What was stopping the Military Establishment from installing Imran Khan in 2008 and 2013? They could've easily done it with rigging like they did in 2024.
4. What was stopping the Military Establishment from giving Imran Khan 2/3rd Majority in 2018 Elections? Instead they used the delay in RTS to stop PTI from even getting simple majority. Why did they do that if PTI was created and funded by them?
5. Finally, what was forcing Bajwa's Military Establishment to convince U.S. via Hussain Haqqani that Imran Khan was anti-U.S. and U.S. should help Bajwa to oust Imran Khan via VONC even when Imran Khan was saying to him that let his government complete 5 years otherwise there will be economic instability and he will give him his extension, but he still backstabbed him even though we finally found out that he did wanted extension?

I will except it if you can answer all five questions with valid arguments.
It doesn't matter if PTI has an ideology or not. The people of Pakistan especially women and younger generation have found an ideology just like they did before creation of Pakistan. The ideology of "True independence" from Military Establishment.
 
Pashtunkhwa Milli Awami Party chief Mahmood Khan Achakzai has claimed that the establishment was playing with the Constitution of the country.

“Today is the first day of the National Assembly […] you should now pass four resolutions that the establishment and security institutions will have no role in the politics of Pakistan,” he said.

“Otherwise we will thrash them with the power of the public,” Achakzai said.

“From the formation of Pakistan, the fight between democratic and non-democratic forces has been going on,” he recalled, adding that the PML-N, PPP and PTI should draft a resolution and declare judges who opposed martial law as “heroes".

Dawn
 
Quite an outrageous speech from him. Some of his points are valid, which we can't deny. And during the speech, he was quite neutral, appreciating both Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan.
 
Quite an outrageous speech from him. Some of his points are valid, which we can't deny. And during the speech, he was quite neutral, appreciating both Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan.
I don't know where is the Nawaz of "Vote ko IZZAT do" version now.
 
What people expect when the whole judiciary is with the establishment? Start a guerrilla war?
 
I forsee the pti collapsing once IK is out of the picture. The party is all about IK. Everyone else just feeds of him. It will become like every other political party once IK is gone and the masses will no longer be attracted to it.
I could be proven wrong, but I foresee Murad Saeed leading the party if IK is ever out of the picture. Yes, PTI is all about IK for now and everyone else does feed off of him and there will not be another like him for years if not decades, but a future leader will come from this young generation. It might or might not become like any other party and even if IK doesn't complete his mission before bowing out, the future generations will complete his mission for him. The masses may no longer be attracted to PTI in the future after Imran Khan, but a new leader from younger generation with similar goals of "True Independence" may form another party and masses will be attracted to that party. Seeing the results of this election, It's the first time I have hopes for our democracy in the future.
 
bro thats the thing. ARY discussed the poll rigging of 2018.
Yeah, the polls were rigged in 2018 against PTI to stop them from making simple majority which they were clearly heading for until RTS stopped and PTI stopped winning seats after that. Coincidence?? I think not!!!
 
I could be proven wrong, but I foresee Murad Saeed leading the party if IK is ever out of the picture. Yes, PTI is all about IK for now and everyone else does feed off of him and there will not be another like him for years if not decades, but a future leader will come from this young generation. It might or might not become like any other party and even if IK doesn't complete his mission before bowing out, the future generations will complete his mission for him. The masses may no longer be attracted to PTI in the future after Imran Khan, but a new leader from younger generation with similar goals of "True Independence" may form another party and masses will be attracted to that party. Seeing the results of this election, It's the first time I have hopes for our democracy in the future.
A fake degree holder like Murad Saeed will be PTI’s next leader?

And what is Imran’s mission? His mission ended up when he welcomed corrupt and crook politicians in his party because he was desperate for power.

PTI will disintegrate after Imran because it is not a proper party. It is a cult. A fan club of one individual.

Once he is gone, PTI will split into different parties. There is no difference between PTI and MQM. The foundations of both parties are based on hero worshipping of their supreme leader.
 
I believe AZ did those things for him and his cronies' own personal gains and to further strengthen this corrupt political system. Nothing AZ does is out of the kindness of his heart or for the good of the people. Snatching power from the president was just a move by NS to have everybody under his thumb so he could rule like a corrupt king, but he didn't realize that without curbing the powers of Military Establishment, his dream cannot be achieved, and Military Establishment later found other ways like their moral and financial corruption to blackmail them. Allocating provinces their share was done at the behest of AZ because even if in the future PPP doesn't win elections and form a federal government. he can still with the help of Establishment form a provincial government in Sindh and AZ and Establishment can continue to loot and plunder Sindh and Federal govt. will not be able to intervene due to 18th amendment. That's the reality of these so-called good steps.

N.S. is a good dealer and an ass kisser for his own interests. Whenever he held power, he endeavored to bring our neighbors closer to himself and improved his personal economic activities, which were significant for a corrupt politician like N.S. We should not forget the significant step he took to secretly invite and Meet Sajjan Jindal in Pakistan without a visa for his own personal business interest and not Pakistan. Not denying what Military Establishment has done in Kargil but Pathankot incident is controversial in India itself. Even in India, people think that this incident was a false flag operation. Modi was always openly anti Pakistan even before N.S. invited him and even before Pathankot Incident. The Pathankot incident was done so Modi can bash Pakistan and increase his popularity in India. India was already boycotting us since 2008 and Modi was never going to undo that. It was all about N.S. personal relationship and business outside Pakistan with Sajjan Jindal and Mukesh Ambani. India's actual economic growth didn't happen because they boycotted Pakistan. It actually started happening in Manmohan Singh's tenure and it also happened because they don't have a corrupt political system backed by a corrupt Military Establishment looking for their own personal gain.
India's political scenario in 70's, 80's and 90's was actually much better and more lenient towards minorities minus Kashmir and some riots that happened every 3 to 4 years and a religious extremist party was not in power spreading hate and fascism towards minorities in India. I don't think that Pakistan's political scenario today is lenient towards minorities thanks to Military Establishment who wants to create and control these pockets of religious extremist groups in order to control the nation and primarily Punjabis.

First of all, snatching power from a president was an excellent decision by the parliament, as history has proven how the establishment overthrew elected PMs and governments by putting pressure on the president. The next step is to limit the power of these so-called higher courts in political and parliamentary decisions. I do not support Supreme Court verdicts in parliamentary decisions either, which become apparent after votes of no confidence against IK.

NZ is a businessman himself, and his father and forefathers were all involved in business in India, indicating strong roots in the country. How can any sensible person envision economic prosperity without fostering bilateral relationships with neighbors such as India, which is poised to become the next economic giant in the region? Musharraf sabotaged NS's great efforts in 1999 by engaging in the Kargil war and then shifting blame onto political leadership when they sensed failure. India and Modi used the Pakistan card to win elections, but look at their progress. Only the ignorant would deny that they will emerge as a major economic giant in the next 10-20 years.
 
Whether he is or isn't, it has gone beyond him now. It isn't about him or whatever he does, or if he will be praised or not anymore. It's about the younger generation realizing who their real enemy is and standing up peacefully against them by casting their votes via ballot. What is radical about it? If some groups of our public have been radicalized, especially the youth, then who has done it? The Establishment creating religious extremist and ethno-extremist groups like TLP, MQM, and others because they want to divide and rule, akin to their predecessors, The British Empire. They aim to create fault lines, dividing the nation along sectarian and linguistic lines so they can easily control us. This nation won't be united against them, and they will continue to loot and plunder along with other elite mafias. That's why the Establishment controlling this nation for 76 years is the real enemy of this country.

These younger people have recognized the real enemy and will carry this thinking into the next generation and beyond. Nobody is a first or third-grade Muslim, except by their good character. The Arabs are not progressing and becoming more liberal day by day. By your definition of liberalism and progressiveness, Russia and Egypt are the most liberal and progressive countries in the world. There's no democracy or human rights in those countries, but at least the women there are allowed to dance semi-naked because that's what you think the definition of liberalism and progressiveness is. They are no better Muslims than us, and let's not go over who is a better Muslim and who isn't. The younger people are not zombies anymore, and they proved that in these elections, and that's what scares the Establishment.

Thankfully, Imran Khan has used religion to teach the young people about the true message of Islam, which is to get true independence and break the shackles of slavery physically and mentally. He has brought the majority of young people back from religious extremism towards the true message of Islam, uniting them from Sindh to Gilgit Baltistan. The Establishment does not want that.

You're right that even if Imran Khan leaves politics, the damage has been done. It is the damage to the Establishment's reputation and credibility and the one-sided love that people had for them in their hearts. Their hearts might have been broken, but it is for the better in the long run that the public now knows the real truth, and the Establishment should prepare to reap the bitter fruits for many years to come.
In Pakistan, it's remarkable how we learn about Islam from someone who led a flamboyant lifestyle in their youth, engaged in numerous illicit affairs, and even has an illegitimate daughter. This is a true reflection of our society, where individuals can manipulate and exploit religion and social services to garner sympathy and votes, solely because they possess eloquence, good looks, and adeptness at playing these cards.
 
A fake degree holder like Murad Saeed will be PTI’s next leader?

And what is Imran’s mission? His mission ended up when he welcomed corrupt and crook politicians in his party because he was desperate for power.

PTI will disintegrate after Imran because it is not a proper party. It is a cult. A fan club of one individual.

Once he is gone, PTI will split into different parties. There is no difference between PTI and MQM. The foundations of both parties are based on hero worshipping of their supreme leader.

The word “cult” gets thrown around quite a lot for PTI, but not for the other 2 main stream parties.

Remove Zardari and Bilawal from PPP, you think that party will still be intact?

Remove the Sharif’s from PML-N, they can barely get votes with them in the party, what will happen when they’re gone?
 
At least 8 PTI protestors arrested at GPO Chowk Lahore

At least eight PTI workers have been arrested by police at GPO Chowk on Mall Road near the Lahore High Court after they gathered there on the party’s call to protest against alleged theft of their mandate.

According to a Dawn correspondent present at the protest site, a police contingent was deployed near the court before the protest started, and once a few protestors congregated there, the police began making the arrests.

The police action managed to disperse the remaining protestors.

Dawn
 
What will be achieved by protesting against rigging? Instead of protesting, engage in blogging.
 
At least 8 PTI protestors arrested at GPO Chowk Lahore

At least eight PTI workers have been arrested by police at GPO Chowk on Mall Road near the Lahore High Court after they gathered there on the party’s call to protest against alleged theft of their mandate.

According to a Dawn correspondent present at the protest site, a police contingent was deployed near the court before the protest started, and once a few protestors congregated there, the police began making the arrests.

The police action managed to disperse the remaining protestors.

Dawn
ASP Shehrbano is restoring peace in Lahore. I don't understand why these PTI supporters have such expensive cars!!!!

View attachment YouCut_20240302_172102284.mp4
 
The word “cult” gets thrown around quite a lot for PTI, but not for the other 2 main stream parties.

Remove Zardari and Bilawal from PPP, you think that party will still be intact?

Remove the Sharif’s from PML-N, they can barely get votes with them in the party, what will happen when they’re gone?
The difference between PTI and PMLN/PPP is very simple.

PTI is fan club of Imran. It has no roots. Without Imran, it has no relevance, no existence. This is why PTI will disintegrate after he is gone.

On the other hand, PMLN and PPP will remain relevant for as long as as the Sharif and Bhutto family survives. Nawaz, Shehbaz, Maryam, Bilawal etc. will be gone but their family name and legacy will continue and 50 years from now, people will be voting for their descendants.

Individuals don’t matter - it is the family name and legacy that carries forward. People criticize family politics but in the dynamics of Pakistani politics, family politics ensures long-term survival.

There is a difference between dependency on one individual (Imran) and dependency on a family. This is why PTI will not survive in the long-term but PMLN and PPP will.

Imran has no succession plan. He has two sons with identity crisis who are British with Pakistani names and probably can’t even speak their father’s language and I don’t know what God they worship to.

After Imran is gone, they will probably never step foot in Pakistan and their future generations would have zero affiliation with Pakistan.

PTI will die with Imran.
 
The difference between PTI and PMLN/PPP is very simple.

PTI is fan club of Imran. It has no roots. Without Imran, it has no relevance, no existence. This is why PTI will disintegrate after he is gone.

On the other hand, PMLN and PPP will remain relevant for as long as as the Sharif and Bhutto family survives. Nawaz, Shehbaz, Maryam, Bilawal etc. will be gone but their family name and legacy will continue and 50 years from now, people will be voting for their descendants.

Individuals don’t matter - it is the family name and legacy that carries forward. People criticize family politics but in the dynamics of Pakistani politics, family politics ensures long-term survival.

There is a difference between dependency on one individual (Imran) and dependency on a family. This is why PTI will not survive in the long-term but PMLN and PPP will.

Imran has no succession plan. He has two sons with identity crisis who are British with Pakistani names and probably can’t even speak their father’s language and I don’t know what God they worship to.

After Imran is gone, they will probably never step foot in Pakistan and their future generations would have zero affiliation with Pakistan.

PTI will die with Imran.

PTI supporters according to you support the party because of one man, you’ve labelled that as a “cult”

But, it’s not a cult to worship the Bhutto’s and the Sharif’s?
 
PTI supporters according to you support the party because of one man, you’ve labelled that as a “cult”

But, it’s not a cult to worship the Bhutto’s and the Sharif’s?
Don't believe in these rubbish analogies that Imran is a cult, these philosophers predicted that IK wont last a week in Jail and that PTI has no business post 9 May.
 
Sher Afzal Marwat says protest to continue till Imran’s release, return of ‘stolen’ mandate

PTI leader Sher Afzal Marwat has said that his party will continue protesting until former prime minister Imran Khan is released from jail and the “stolen mandate” is returned.

Addressing a PTI rally in Islamabad today, he urged the Supreme Court to take notice of the violation of Pakistanis’ fundamental rights under the judiciary’s watch.

Marwat said the incumbent government’s reality was “stealing prisoner no: 804’s mandate”.

“Imran Khan, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Parvez Elahi, Bushra Bibi, Yasmin Rashid, Sanam Javed, and other PTI leaders have been unjustly jailed by the fascist regime imposed on us for the past two years,” he told the protestors.

Marwat said Imran was innocent but imprisoned for seven months, adding that the PTI founder’s only sin was chanting ‘absolutely not’ and striving for haqeeqi azaadi.

“We will continue our struggle and protest in the courts, parliament, and on the streets until Imran is released [..] and the recovery of our mandate,” the PTI leader concluded.

Dawn
 
Don't believe in these rubbish analogies that Imran is a cult, these philosophers predicted that IK wont last a week in Jail and that PTI has no business post 9 May.

Just find it strange how some of these “liberals” are happy for their country to be run by two parties that claim to be anti - establishment and pro democracy but they’re completely the opposite.

Even if they’re anti - PTI/IK, what’s stopping them from voting alternative parties that actually suit their ideologies?

Jinnah didn’t go through all the trouble just so two dumbass families could run it for eternity.
 
Exactly. These people used to claim that they left Pakistan because of corrupt leadership but when their leader came into power in 2018, they made a million excuses for why they wouldn’t return to Pakistan.

These people cannot walk the talk. They love their foreign passports more than they love Pakistan or Imran khan, and their support is limited to social media only.

Imran has suffered defeat for only one reason: his supporters are cowards. They can talk about the establishment and “foreign interference” all they want, but it is the people, the masses, that hold the real power.

They say that the mandate of the people was not respected. Of course it was not respected. The mandate of cowards and gutless people will never be respected.

I dislike Imran Khan, but one thing I would not shy fro admitting that he has more courage than all his supporters put together. If they had a semblance of courage and persistence than their leader does, he would not be in the position he is today.

Imran has been let down not by the establishment and the opposition but by his own supporters and he will spend the rest of his days contemplating if these people were worth fighting for.
Just like in cricket, a captain and a leader is just as good as his team. Imran, may have good intentions, even though I feel is pretty incompetent. But that is besides the point. His supporters are really awful. The only way pak can progress is if PTI supporters on the street walk the talk. Unfortunately they are all noise and keyboard warriors
 
This sort of comment is just lazy and not particularly clever. Why would westerners sitting comfortably in their homes be responsible for what happens in Pakistan? The only people who should be responsible for the welfare of Pakistan is the people of Pakistan themselves.

If PTI is a party of western supporters, then that means local Pakistanis all support the Establishment and the old established parties led by the Bhutto and Sharif clans right? Between the three of them they ran Pakistan for all but a few years during the best part of a century. Wow, they must have done a bang up job to get the country to where it is today. Congratulations.
They may or may not be responsible. But they proclaim to be big supporters of IK. If they are so invested in Pakistan or driven by IK idealogy, why not go there and support him? Why hide behind the keyboard and belittle hard working Pakistanis who are struggling to make ends meet? Most Pakistanis and PTI supporters in pakistan clearly don't see any reason to fight for Imran Khan. May be they don't consider him a savior, may don't care for him or just cowards. Irrespective of any reason, clearly IK doesn't have the street support his supporters talk about if they don't even come out when he has been locked up in jail
 
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Just like in cricket, a captain and a leader is just as good as his team. Imran, may have good intentions, even though I feel is pretty incompetent. But that is besides the point. His supporters are really awful. The only way pak can progress is if PTI supporters on the street walk the talk. Unfortunately they are all noise and keyboard warriors
PTI supporters mainly fall into these categories:

1. Teenagers who think it is cool to support Imran and be a part of this youth tsunami or whatever it is called.

2. Cricket fans who were in love with Imran when he was a cricketer and followed him in politics.

3. Genuine, authentic supporters who are pretty much ex-supporters now. They believed in him and what he promised but they ended up disappointed because Imran couldn’t deliver 10% of what he had promised. These people might still have voted for him due to lack of alternatives, but they no longer care enough to fight for him and they don’t have any expectations from him either.
 
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The difference between PTI and PMLN/PPP is very simple.

PTI is fan club of Imran. It has no roots. Without Imran, it has no relevance, no existence. This is why PTI will disintegrate after he is gone.

On the other hand, PMLN and PPP will remain relevant for as long as as the Sharif and Bhutto family survives. Nawaz, Shehbaz, Maryam, Bilawal etc. will be gone but their family name and legacy will continue and 50 years from now, people will be voting for their descendants.

Individuals don’t matter - it is the family name and legacy that carries forward. People criticize family politics but in the dynamics of Pakistani politics, family politics ensures long-term survival.

There is a difference between dependency on one individual (Imran) and dependency on a family. This is why PTI will not survive in the long-term but PMLN and PPP will.

Imran has no succession plan. He has two sons with identity crisis who are British with Pakistani names and probably can’t even speak their father’s language and I don’t know what God they worship to.

After Imran is gone, they will probably never step foot in Pakistan and their future generations would have zero affiliation with Pakistan.

PTI will die with Imran.

Aleema Khan has played an active role in pti since imrans arrest, her popularity graph has gone up. The pti seniorl leadership consults her before making final decisions. She or sons or imrans nephews could play an active role in pti and cash in on his name.
 
PTI supporters mainly fall into these categories:

1. Teenagers who think it is cool to support Imran and be a part of this youth tsunami or whatever it is called.

2. Cricket fans who were in love with Imran when he was a cricketer and followed him in politics.

3. Genuine, authentic supporters who are pretty much ex-supporters now. They believed in him and what he promised but they ended up disappointed because Imran couldn’t deliver 10% of what he had promised. These people might still have voted for him due to lack of alternatives, but they no longer care enough to fight for him and they don’t have any expectations from him either.
You are the equivalent of the legacy media when it comes to understanding modern PK politics. The PTI isn't popular because we support them,we are I agree cheer leaders from afar. IK and the PTI are popular because people have had enough of the thugs and munafiqs and as Sethi recently said, and others have also complained,the new generation doesn't give a toss of what the legacy media and the politicians that pay for them propagate to them. The reason is 3 fold,firstly IK talks their language, the youth bulb is prepared to listen to him and the social media has allowed people to express themselves. thugs have no narrative, no one believes the Generals,what can they tell them? Will they tell them that those people that they have used as the bad guys( NS and AZ) are suddenly the good guys? What is the narrative of the bilawal, vote for him and I will bring prosperity and justice, when everyone can see what they have done in Sindh. What will bloody Mary tell the young generation,vote for me because I am the daughter of a crook and I will be replaced by my son because a population of 250mn doesn't have any talent outside a family of crooks.
The PTI has started to produce its own talent and this talent has taken the torture and still stayed strong.
 
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Pti supporters need to prove that they can take and survive a good beating and keep moving forward to win Mamoons respect.
 
PTI has survived the crackdown and is now the only national political party. Pakistan's political dynamics have changed forever with PTI now being a major force. Just a matter of time before it's in power
And will you cut cake when they get into power?
 
Just find it strange how some of these “liberals” are happy for their country to be run by two parties that claim to be anti - establishment and pro democracy but they’re completely the opposite.

Even if they’re anti - PTI/IK, what’s stopping them from voting alternative parties that actually suit their ideologies?

Jinnah didn’t go through all the trouble just so two dumbass families could run it for eternity.
Because one way or another they are beneficiary of this corrupt system with some father, brother, uncle or dad in that cesspool
 
Pti supporters need to prove that they can take and survive a good beating and keep moving forward to win Mamoons respect.
Whatever happened post May 9 and attacks on Zaman Park in March/2023 are seen as a new phenomena in Pak’s history. PTI’s workers and leadership went through hell. Their businesses got demolished, women were on the verge of being raped, police brutality was at its peak, the whole system was against them yet they won an unbelievable victory and crushed the establisment on Feb 8. They don’t need any nobody’s respect.

Its very easy to sit in your room and lecture. PPP or Noon league never went through a mere 25% of what PTI faced. IK is sitting in a jail comfortably knowing he has won and he will win again, just wait a year or so. He didn’t run away like a loser NS or Zardari and made cheap deals. He is a legend. People should learn from his resistance and persistence.
 
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You are the equivalent of the legacy media when it comes to understanding modern PK politics. The PTI isn't popular because we support them,we are I agree cheer leaders from afar. IK and the PTI are popular because people have had enough of the thugs and munafiqs and as Sethi recently said, and others have also complained,the new generation doesn't give a toss of what the legacy media and the politicians that pay for them propagate to them. The reason is 3 fold,firstly IK talks their language, the youth bulb is prepared to listen to him and the social media has allowed people to express themselves. thugs have no narrative, no one believes the Generals,what can they tell them? Will they tell them that those people that they have used as the bad guys( NS and AZ) are suddenly the good guys? What is the narrative of the bilawal, vote for him and I will bring prosperity and justice, when everyone can see what they have done in Sindh. What will bloody Mary tell the young generation,vote for me because I am the daughter of a crook and I will be replaced by my son because a population of 250mn doesn't have any talent outside a family of crooks.
The PTI has started to produce its own talent and this talent has taken the torture and still stayed strong.
On Tiktok I follow a truck driver in Pakistan and his daily life. He just went through Sindh on a trip for supplies.

I'm not lying. It resembles poverty seen in sub saharan Africa, mud houses, broken roads, absolute poverty. Larkana was horrific beyond words. The only structures standing had PPP flags. This is their legacy.
 
They may or may not be responsible. But they proclaim to be big supporters of IK. If they are so invested in Pakistan or driven by IK idealogy, why not go there and support him? Why hide behind the keyboard and belittle hard working Pakistanis who are struggling to make ends meet? Most Pakistanis and PTI supporters in pakistan clearly don't see any reason to fight for Imran Khan. May be they don't consider him a savior, may don't care for him or just cowards. Irrespective of any reason, clearly IK doesn't have the street support his supporters talk about if they don't even come out when he has been locked up in jail
Firstly, I have to repeat again, the only people who need to take responsibility for Pakistan are actually Pakistani citizens. To try to argue that in fact the responsibility for Pakistan lies with foreigners who live abroad is not only bizarre, but maybe indicative of everything wrong with the rotten mindset of of local Pakistanis - assuming you are actually a home based Pakistani. Could be you yourself are also a foreigner.

Secondly, if you believe Imran Khan has no street support, why would there be any need to rig elections or lock him up in jail on trumped up charges? The reality flies in the face of the narrative, a narrative which no one believes outside of the establishment given it's history of deposing elected leaders.
 
Firstly, I have to repeat again, the only people who need to take responsibility for Pakistan are actually Pakistani citizens. To try to argue that in fact the responsibility for Pakistan lies with foreigners who live abroad is not only bizarre, but maybe indicative of everything wrong with the rotten mindset of of local Pakistanis - assuming you are actually a home based Pakistani. Could be you yourself are also a foreigner.

Secondly, if you believe Imran Khan has no street support, why would there be any need to rig elections or lock him up in jail on trumped up charges? The reality flies in the face of the narrative, a narrative which no one believes outside of the establishment given it's history of deposing elected leaders.


Elections happen, PTI sweeps it. ECP still hasn't uploaded any Form 45 forms, the new duffer PM today thanked everyone for electing him as the opposition leader.

You'd think for a party they accuse of only having either overseas support or only a social media presence they'd rushed into elections. They didn't, delaying it illegally. Why? This is not some mistaken thinking, its genuine dishonesty in some of these lot. In the other thread FearlessRoar, after having no point to make about his party stealing a mandate, goes onto ask 'but why does IK support Talibans'. This coming from his party who's leader served under a dictator, a dictator responsible for all the TTP-lite namoonay rife in our country. I said it back then and will say it again, its exactly like debating with Israeli hasbara trolls, when they have no point to make 'but do you condemn Hamas'.

You can't debate with such people in any kind of good faith.
 
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Hammad Azhar says ‘new experiment of establishment’ would also fail

PTI leader Hammad Azhar has said that the PPP and PML-N should be given the “medal of shame” for taking over the government despite their “rigging, fascism, failed performance and bootlicking”.

“The new experiment by the establishment will also fail,” he said in a post on X. “The people gave him a crushing defeat and gave PTI the mandate of a strong government with a two-thirds majority.”

Dawn
 
Of course, no prime minister in Pakistan has completed their tenure to date.
 
Of course, no prime minister in Pakistan has completed their tenure to date.
The honor of which should be given to Nawaz + estb as he worked in full tandem with the estb to overthrow Benazir's government in the 90s and then the farcical overthrow of Imran Khan.

He should have been allowed to complete his terms too but his attempts to put 200 Pakistani lives in danger onboard an airline deserved jail, never mind sacking.

Then ofcourse Panama, where Nawaz says everything he bought was from the proeeds of his rich father, duffer Shehbaz says his father was poor and had no money, Nani says we have nothing not even a property abroad and then forges documents in court.

All 3 should be rotting in jail.
 
Fearing for IK life in prison. The Pakistani establishment and PDM will be further emboldened by the support of the international establishment ie USA, UK, EU and the lack of street power, response from pti workers, supporters and the Pakistani people at large.
 
Fearing for IK life in prison. The Pakistani establishment and PDM will be further emboldened by the support of the international establishment ie USA, UK, EU and the lack of street power, response from pti workers, supporters and the Pakistani people at large.
Death will be quick and easy for Imran. He will be kept alive so that he can reflect on his defeat, his mistakes and how much he was let down by his cowardly supporters.
 
Imran is buzzing and roaring from prison while PdM hides behind a diikhead the end is near for them
 
Imran is buzzing and roaring from prison while PdM hides behind a diikhead the end is near for them
Buzzing and roaring from prison 🤣🤣🤣

The only people who are hiding are his supporters who don’t have the courage to protest and take to the streets without the establishment funding & protecting them like they did from 2013 to 2018.
 

The plague for Pakistan​

=====

Establishment stands isolated in attempt to revive ‘corrupt actors’, claims PTI’s Hammad Azhar​

PTI leader Hammad Azhar has claimed that the establishment stood isolated in its attempt to revive “corrupt actors” from the political stage.

In a post on X, he said Pakistanis were striving to “salvage the moral fabric” by actively opposing the “regime’s shenanigans”.

“By actively opposing the regime’s shenanigans, the Pakistanis are trying to salvage the moral fabric. The people as a collective washed out the incompetent, corrupt actors from the political stage,” Azhar said.

Source: Dawn News
 
Are we expecting a show down between these two forces soon?
=====

Establishment’s terms and conditions don’t reconcile with our approach, says PTI’s Sher Afzal Marwat

PTI leader Sher Afzal Marwat has said that some form of contact did take place with the establishment “but the terms and conditions did not reconcile with our approach”.

Speaking on Geo News programme ‘Aaj Shahzeb Khanzada Kay Saath’, Marwat said that if any deal had to be struck, it would only be with political entities.

“They are also thinking about how long will they stay in the establishment’s good book,” the PTI leader said.

He further stated that former prime minister Imran Khan had given clear instructions for his party regarding staging a protest against alleged election rigging across the country to let people know that “we won’t strike any deal”.

“People who try to control the situation back here, no doubt they are powerful but they are not Gods,” Marwat added.

Source: Dawn News
 
Are we expecting a show down between these two forces soon?
=====

Establishment’s terms and conditions don’t reconcile with our approach, says PTI’s Sher Afzal Marwat

PTI leader Sher Afzal Marwat has said that some form of contact did take place with the establishment “but the terms and conditions did not reconcile with our approach”.

Speaking on Geo News programme ‘Aaj Shahzeb Khanzada Kay Saath’, Marwat said that if any deal had to be struck, it would only be with political entities.

“They are also thinking about how long will they stay in the establishment’s good book,” the PTI leader said.

He further stated that former prime minister Imran Khan had given clear instructions for his party regarding staging a protest against alleged election rigging across the country to let people know that “we won’t strike any deal”.

“People who try to control the situation back here, no doubt they are powerful but they are not Gods,” Marwat added.

Source: Dawn News
Marwat a plant 100%, on this program where IK's wife was insulted and the entire disgusting case was started by Khanzada.
 
Marwat a plant 100%, on this program where IK's wife was insulted and the entire disgusting case was started by Khanzada.

Marwat is definitely a plant, he never gets arrested or picked up, his past Facebook posts and tweets are full of anti IK posts and posts filled with praise for NS and Maryam. His brother who has deleted his previous twitter account openly used to post against IK.

Any PTI leader who is allowed to roam around freely, is never subjected to arrest or detention is not to be trusted.
 
PTI has struggled to evolve into a structured political entity due to its entrenched cultist culture, lacking organized forums for decision making. This weakness is particularly evident in its parliamentary performance. Similarly, many other prominent political parties in the country suffer from a lack of democratic structures and organization.
 
Didn’t de-notify Gen Qamar Bajwa despite ‘betrayal’: PTI founder

“Although General Bajwa’s actions felt like a betrayal, we [the then PTI government] refrained from convening a committee to confront him,” the deposed prime minister said while speaking to journalists in an informal conversation during the hearing of the Toshakhana reference in Adiala jail.

During the conversation, PTI founder Imran Khan once again called for negotiations for the betterment of the country. “It’s for the betterment of Pakistan, so convince me for negotiations,” he said.

“If I could meet Gen Qamar Bajwa twice following removal of our government, then I can meet anyone. Right now, it is not about me, but is about Pakistan,” the former prime minister told reporters.

PTI founder Imran Khan said that he could have de-notified General Bajwa despite his “betrayal”, however, he chose not to as he did not want to confront the Pakistan army.

On the Toshakhana reference, the former prime minister said that he and his wife Bushra Bibi were convicted in the reference by claiming that the value of the jewellery set was Rs3 billion while the real value was Rs18 million.

In this regard, he said that he would file a case against the chairman of the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) and the prosecution witness Inam Shah.

Khan said that the former spy chief General Faiz Hameed (Retd) and General Bajwa informed him about corruption within the Sharif family and their acquisition of cars from Toshakhana.

However, the PTI founder said that their cases have not been pursued.

“Bushra Bibi has been convicted to break me,” he claimed.

The former prime minister expressed hope that the judiciary would uphold justice, as he lauded the Islamabad High Court’s (IHC) six judges’ letter alleging interference of intelligence agencies.

On the issues related to PTI, Khan claimed that some of his party leaders were in contact with the “establishment” and were attempting to dismantle the party.

He said that the same people were leveling allegations against former First Lady Bushra Bibi.

On his wife’s health and allegations of poisoning, Imran Khan said that it will be premature to ascertain anything until Bushra Bibi undergoes an endoscopy.

Days earlier, Bushra Bibi alleged that in a poisoning bid floor cleaner was mixed in her food.

In an informal talk with media outside the accountability court after attending hearing of 190 million pounds graft case, former prime minister Imran Khan’s wife alleged that on Shab-e-Mairaj, floor cleaner was added in her food.

“I am experiencing swelling in the eyes, discomfort in the chest and stomach, as well as a bitter taste in food and water,” she said.

A day earlier, a medical report of the former first lady found no evidence of any poisonous substance being given to her at the Bani Gala sub-jail.

The medical report was released by the Pakistan Institute of Medical Science (Pims) after four senior doctors performed a medical examination of the Bushra Bibi.

 
They are also like Babar and Shaheen, transitioning from being best friends to having a rift due to government issues
 

Imran green-lights negotiations with establishment, political forces​


Former prime minister and incarcerated Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) founder, Imran Khan, has reportedly authorised his party to engage in negotiations with the establishment and other political entities.

Express News reported that PTI is open to discussions with both the establishment and political parties, a notion confirmed by PTI leader Shibli Faraz, who stated that Imran Khan has granted permission for negotiations.

Sources indicate that Khan has stressed that any negotiations must adhere strictly to the Constitution and legal frameworks. Furthermore, it is suggested that Terms of Reference (TORs) will be established prior to the negotiations, guiding discussions with stakeholders including the establishment and political parties.

Addressing journalists on Saturday, Faraz highlighted the current political instability in the country and stressed the importance of defining negotiation parameters. The manner in which the negotiations will take place and in what environment should be decided first, only then will the way for the negotiations be paved with those who are the stakeholders, he added.

Faraz said PTI is a reality and so is the establishment.

He raised questions on the authenticity of the incumbent government formed post-February 8 elections, noting the reliance on Form 47.

The PTI leader stated, "It remains to be seen how empowered it [government] is." Faraz emphasised the need to lay the groundwork and create a conducive environment before initiating dialogue with the government and establishment.

During a Senate session the previous day, Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) Senator Irfan Siddiqui extended an invitation to PTI for talks on the directive of party leadership.

On the same day, PTI leader Shehryar Afridi expressed intentions to engage in discussions with the military establishment. Afridi, speaking to a private TV channel, indicated that talks with the army chief and DG ISI would take place soon.

Afridi clarified that PTI's objective is not to seek a National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) for itself but rather to negotiate for the betterment of Pakistan's future.

He also mentioned Imran Khan's longstanding desire to engage with the establishment from day one, lamenting the absence of a response thus far.

 
Gandapur, Omar, Shibli to ‘hold talks on PTI’s behalf’

Clearing the air after months of confusion and speculation, the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) on Monday finally designated Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Chief Minister Ali Amin Gandapur and parliamentary opposition leaders Omar Ayub and Shibli Faraz to hold talks with the military establishment.

Their names were confirmed by PTI founding chairman and former prime minister Imran Khan while speaking to media persons inside Adiala Jail following the hearing of a £190m corruption case.

When asked if the PTI is still holding talks with the establishment, Mr Khan said: “I have authorised Ali Amin, Omar Ayub and Shibli Faraz for these dialogues.”

He made it clear that no one, except these three leaders, has been authorised to hold talks with the establishment.

Referring to the court order restraining him from speaking against institutions, Mr Khan insisted he never disrespected any state entity and that the directive is against his fundamental rights enshrined in the Constitution.

He regretted that a petition against violation of human rights pending before the Supreme Court was not being heard. Mr Khan expressed the hope that uncertainty about the nomination of chairman of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) would end on Tuesday (today).

He said initially PTI leader Sher Afzal Khan Marwat was nominated for the post; however, he wanted more consultations on this matter. According to him, the jail authorities gave him only half an hour for consultation, which is not a reasonable time for such a serious deliberation.

The former PM endorsed the KP chief minister’s statement threatening to storm Islamabad over unfulfilled commitments made by the federal government, saying the Centre is not giving the due share to the provincial government.

Earlier, talking to journalists outside Adiala Jail, PTI Chairman Barrister Gohar Ali Khan had denied any backchannel dialogues with the establishment. “We are not holding dialogue with anyone,” he said, adding that the PTI did not nominate any leader for holding talks with the establishment; however, Imran Khan might make an announcement in this regard.

Meanwhile, Interior Minister Mohsin Naqvi said he was unaware of any talks or an “imminent deal” between the PTI and the military establishment.

When asked about the issue by reporters during an appearance in Islamabad on Monday, he said he had no such information.

He also did not give a clear answer when asked if the names of some PTI leaders had been struck off the ECL, saying names were removed from the ECL through a standard procedure.

Court proceedings

Accountability Court judge Nasir Javed Rana recorded statements of four witnesses in the £190m corruption reference, the defence counsel cross-examined one witness.

The court has so far recorded the testimonies of 25 witnesses, out of them 16 have been cross-examined.

Meanwhile, the Islamabad High Court adjourned the hearing of bail petitions filed by Imran Khan and his spouse Bushra Bibi in the £190m corruption case because of the absence of the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) special prosecutor.

An IHC division bench comprising Chief Justice Aamer Farooq and Justice Tariq Mehmood Jahangiri resumed the hearing on the bail petitions. The counsel of Imran Khan told the court that he travelled all the way from Lahore to attend the hearing.

Justice Farooq said he was also not feeling well, but came for the hearing of this particular case. He warned the prosecution that no further adjournment would be made and the court would decide the bail petition on merits.

SOURCE: DAWN
 
We won’t speak to establishment secretly, says CM Gandapur

Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Chief Minister Ali Amin Khan Gandapur on Wednesday said he was part of the committee nominated by detained PTI founder Imran Khan to hold dialogue with the security establishment.

“We won’t keep anything [regarding negotiations with the establishment] secret,” Mr Gandapur told reporters after attending a Labour Day function at a hotel here.

The chief minister said former prime minister Imran Khan had given the go-ahead to the party for holding talks with the establishment, and he was part of the dialogue panel.

He said he was happy to see JUI-F chief Maulana Fazlur Rehman tell the truth about election rigging.

Mr Gandapur said the JUI-F chief was part of almost every government, and therefore, he would reveal other “secrets” about Pakistani politics as well.

He said Mr Fazl first claimed that he ousted Imran Khan’s government but later blamed former army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa for it, so he should speak more about it.

The chief minister said the JUI-F chief claimed that the mandate given by voters to his party was stolen.

He said since he had defeated Mr Fazl in the Feb 8 polls, he was ready for the verification of votes polled by him and other candidates.

“The Maulana claimed his mandate was stolen, but in reality, he was deceived by those with whom he had always made deals to grab power,” he said.

Earlier in the function, the chief minister announced the appointment of “wage magistrates” to ensure the implementation of the minimum wage fixed by the government. He said the salaries of labourers must be transferred into their bank accounts, and that should be monitored by an effective mechanism.

Mr Gandapur said his government would protect the rights of labourers and work for their welfare by introducing new laws and making reforms in the legal framework, according to an statement issued by the Chief Minister’s House.

He said the provincial government would stand by the labour class and would not allow any individual or institution to exploit them.

“The stakeholders, including representatives of labourers, will be taken on board during the process of legislation and reforms,” he said.

The chief announced the government would double packages of assistance for labourers.

He said since the revenue of the labour department had increased, the assistance packages for labourers should be enhanced.

Mr Gandapur transferred Rs177.5 million funds to the relevant bank account online for the educational expenses of the children of labourers and said 22,354 students would benefit from that money.

He said 2,056 residential flats constructed for labourers should be handed over to them at the earliest in consultation with stakeholders and in a transparent manner. The chief minister said the ease of doing business was one of the priorities of his government, and therefore, it would attract investors by extending facilities to them.

“We are providing investors with a conducive environment,” he said.

Mr Gandapur said plans were also in the works to provide locally produced electricity to the industry at low rates.

He said the initiative would benefit labourers and create jobs.

The chief minister said since the government’s intentions and priorities were clear, it would deliver the goods.

SOURCE: DAWN
 

Can Pakistan’s Imran Khan and army patch up, a year after violent clashes?​


Pakistan Army chief General Asim Munir was blunt. Addressing army officials during his visit to Lahore Garrison on May 9, Munir said, “There can be no compromise or deal with the planners and architects of this dark chapter in our history.”

Munir was referring to the events of May 9, 2023, when Pakistan erupted in violence and a subsequent crackdown after former Prime Minister Imran Khan was arrested while appearing before the Islamabad High Court for a hearing into a case of corruption.

Thousands of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) party workers responded to Khan’s arrest by storming the streets in various cities, demanding his immediate release and going on a rampage in which state buildings and military installations were targeted. Angry supporters in Lahore targeted the residence of a top military commander, torching the building. Another group of protesters raided the gates of the Pakistani military’s headquarters in Rawalpindi.

While Khan was released two days later, he was arrested again in August. The police had by that time arrested thousands of PTI workers and party leaders. An already tense relationship between Pakistan’s military and the PTI ruptured, descending into public hostility.

Now, a year later, that broken relationship continues to strain a political system that is also struggling to manage an economic crisis striking at the everyday lives of Pakistan’s 240 million people, analysts say. The military, which felt directly challenged — even attacked — on May 9, 2023, remains Pakistan’s most powerful institution. Meanwhile, the PTI, which emerged as Pakistan’s most popular political force in February national elections, even though its talismanic leader was behind bars and despite a crackdown against it, faces questions over its future.

“It is no secret that our relationship with military leadership has frazzled and there is significant mistrust on both sides,” Taimur Jhagra, a senior PTI leader and former minister in the provincial government of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, told Al Jazeera. “This will have to be resolved because in no country can the largest political force and strongest institution in the state stand against each other.”

Pakistan’s military — euphemistically known in the country as the “establishment” — has directly ruled the country for more than three decades since independence and has wielded significant influence under civilian governments too.

When Khan became Pakistan’s prime minister in August 2018 after winning elections, his rivals claimed that the military facilitated his triumph. Four years later, Khan accused the military of orchestrating his removal from power through a vote of no confidence. The military has rejected both those accusations and the claims that it plays kingmaker in Pakistani politics.

In the 12 months after he had to leave office, Khan took out huge rallies and long marches to Islamabad, survived an assassination attempt, delivered speeches daily, and repeatedly accused the military of joining a United States-backed conspiracy to eject him from office. The US too has consistently denied those allegations.

But those tensions between Khan and the military exploded in May last year. Within two weeks of the violent May 9 protests, as security agencies cracked down on alleged perpetrators, more than 100 party leaders announced their decision to leave the party in hastily arranged news conferences that often appeared stage-managed. The party, it seemed, was imploding.

A former PTI leader who was once considered close to Khan but ended up leaving the party after May 9 said he would often raise concerns within the party about the rising confrontation with the military months before the events that unfolded last year.

“I was saying this in our party meetings repeatedly that we might be heading towards a big disaster, as both sides, us and them, are perhaps underestimating each other and heading towards a confrontation,” he told Al Jazeera on condition of anonymity.

Several party leaders were jailed on charges of plotting the events of May 9, 2023.

While the PTI insists that the events were part of a “false flag operation” to malign the party, some analysts believe that the party miscalculated the military’s response to the rioting that day.

“They assumed they had the room to challenge the military since Khan was able to get away with saying things publicly that others had been punished for saying, and swiftly. But they were mistaken in attempting to challenge the military’s monopoly over violence,” political scientist Sameen Mohsin, an assistant professor at the University of Birmingham, told Al Jazeera.

Asma Faiz, an associate professor of political science at Lahore University of Management Sciences, said the “very smooth relationship” the PTI once enjoyed with the military might have given the party confidence that it could survive the escalating tensions.

“PTI still continues to enjoy support among individuals within the military, judiciary and bureaucracy, so there is broad-based societal support also. That I think led to this miscalculation from them but they had their reasons and logic,” she said.

Jhagra, the PTI leader, said the party was clear that anybody guilty of violating the law should be punished. “But you must remember that May 9 [protests and violence] did not happen in isolation. Starting from the vote of no confidence leading to the ouster of government, and the actual arrest of Khan on May 9, questions must be asked if May 9 would have happened if the events of last year hadn’t,” he said.

As the party continued to face arrests and legal challenges, Khan, who had already been charged in more than 100 cases, was arrested on August 5 last year in a corruption case related to state gifts since he was premier. He was barred from contesting elections due to his conviction. In December 2023, the party’s symbol, a cricket bat, was taken away by the country’s election panel over “irregularities” in the PTI’s intra-party elections.

With just 10 days to go before the polls, the former PM was sentenced in three different cases – revealing state secrets, illegal sale of state gifts, and unlawful marriage.

Despite these setbacks, candidates backed by the PTI, who were forced to contest as independents because the party had lost its symbol, emerged as the largest bloc, winning 93 seats in the lower house of Pakistan’s parliament.

“The people of Pakistan believe that Imran Khan is a patriotic leader, and his supporters are being unfairly treated. The February 8 election results showed this,” Jhagra said.

Still, the party refused to forge a coalition with either of its political rivals: PTI has long described the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) and the Pakistan People’s Party, the two other leading national parties, as corrupt, and has maintained that it will not join hands with them.

So they joined hands themselves, forming the coalition that currently rules Pakistan, under Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif.

Meanwhile, a year after the May 9 protests, the rhetoric from both sides remains sharp. Khan, who remains behind bars, continues to criticise the military. The military, on its part, has insisted that those involved in the May 9 violence will be punished. “It was a futile attempt to bring about a misplaced and shortsighted revolution in the country,” the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), the military’s media wing, said in a press statement to mark the anniversary of the incident.

The military has described May 9, 2023, as “one of the blackest days” in the history of the country.

Jhagra insists that PTI is not an antimilitary party, but acknowledged that there was a lack of trust between the two.

Lahore-based analyst Benazir Shah noted that at this juncture, “both the PTI and the establishment must step back from the confrontation”.

“The ISPR press conference underscores that the establishment is still refusing to engage with the PTI. Despite the PTI’s history of populism and perhaps, certain undemocratic actions, it remains an electoral force. Disregarding it and avoiding dialogue with its leadership would not be in the state’s best interest,” she told Al Jazeera.

The PTI needs to reflect too, said the former party leader who quit after the May 9 violence. The party’s current strategy, he said, was incomprehensible to him.

“On one hand you have ruled out political settlement” with political parties, he said. “You have taken on the establishment believing they will buckle under pressure, but I don’t think this makes sense in reality,” he added.

Still, Faiz, the Lahore-based political scientist, pointed out that the PTI had survived the setbacks of the past year — just as the parties it now accuses of having betrayed democracy once did.

“We do not give enough credit to Pakistani political parties,” she said. “PPP survived martial law, PMLN survived martial law, and now PTI is showing courage. They all have certain resilience.”

What happens next could hinge on a few difficult questions for both sides, suggested Mohsin, the political scientist.

“The question for the PTI is whether prominent members of the party will decide that they prefer to be in power more than being loyal to Khan and continuing to be out of favour with the military establishment,” she said.

Shah, the Lahore-based analyst said the PTI needed to climb down from its position of refusing to speak to other political parties.

But the military establishment and Pakistan’s larger political class too must try to understand why so many people, including young men and women, “came out with such passion for their leader and the party” on May 9, 2023, she said.

“The question to ask here would be: What was the root cause of the anger among these people?” Shah said. “This is a question that must be answered to prevent another May 9 happening in the future.”

 
The way Khan has made their lives difficult even while staying in jail, I m sure soon they will all surrender to him.
 
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