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Have MS Dhoni's performances in this ICC World Cup 2019 damaged his legacy?

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MS Dhoni is widely considered one of the greatest finishers in ODI cricket history, renowned for coming in during a pressure situation in a run chase and dragging India over the line.

However, his performances in this World Cup have drawn much scrutiny, from some Indian fans as much as anyone else, for his lack of intent and urgency when the exact opposite is required, showcased perfectly in today's match vs England. When Dhoni lined up to face his first ball, India required 104 from 61, yet he let his first ball, a length ball outside off, carry through to the keeper without offering a shot.

This set the tone for a pretty tame innings, given the circumstances, in which in 31 balls he was only able to score 5 boundaries, one of them a misfield from Stokes, and for the most part did not attempt to hit many more, despite the required run rate being well over 12 for most of his innings. The lack of intent and sufficient scoring rate in the circumstances "completely baffled" Nasser Hussain and many others, but could this have damaged the legacy he has crafted through his career?
 
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People will forget about all this when he retires and remember all the good he did for India imo.
 
I have said it before...grandpa Dhoni will cost India this world cup. He has passed his expiration date...should have retired after the 2015 world cup but the "seniority" tag got him to this point.

He only performs against mediocre bowling units (BD, SL, Win)....England's bowling attack is way superior and hence the cowardly display by him. He is currently the weakest link in their batting line-up.
 
Firstly, only fools will forget what he has done for India since 2007.

Secondly this WC is far from over. If they get to finals and chase 260 on a difficult wicket he can win his team the match. He has lost some reflexes, but still no one is better than him to play on difficult wickets. He can score matchwinning 60 from 58 balls. Just hold your horses.
 
Dhoni is the best Indian captain of all time. I don't think his legacy will diminish. However, he should retire after this World Cup.
 
His legacy is set in stone

India's best ever ODI captain
India's best ever ODI wicket keeper
India's 2nd best ever ODI player/matchiwnner after Virat Kohli
 
This is India’s first loss, blame shouldn’t be on Dhoni, he played better than Root. India lost the match when they got rid of Root, those last blows from Buttler was costly
 
His legacy is set in stone

India's best ever ODI captain
India's best ever ODI wicket keeper
India's 2nd best ever ODI player/matchiwnner after Virat Kohli


I hope I am allowed by the mods to say this but his army rank, the caps and the insignia gloves are all part of his legacy. He played it smart IMO. He sold well what sells well in New India.
 
Yes, every cricketing fan is angry with the way Dhoni played today, but I don't think any sane person can believe it to tarnish a career as distinguished as Dhoni's. Remember, this game was of massive importance to Pakistan, hence you are attaching that much importance to it, but for us more than importance it was the lack of intent shown which has hurt the fans.

Dhoni's legacy is already sealed. He is a legend of the game and have massive respect for his past achievements and the things he did for Indian cricket.

The only sad thing is, the theory he put into practice of retiring senior players and out of form players is missing in his case. I don't know why he hanging in even now, when it is clear his reflexes are gone, a prime Dhoni would have smoked at least 4 sixes of the garbage short balls he faced today.

A great player whose legacy is sealed already, nothing to prove anything more.

Just want him to retire on a winning note by having lifting the cup again for us. Proud of achievements.
 
I hope I am allowed by the mods to say this but his army rank, the caps and the insignia gloves are all part of his legacy. He played it smart IMO. He sold well what sells well in New India.

Let's not get into all those. Discuss his cricketing stuff...
 
Hell no, in the end there he was just doing damage control with regards to India's NRR; you'd be fool to count him out at this stage, India owes a lot to this man; shameless fair weather fans criticise him too much
 
His legacy is set in stone, the greatest Indian captain ever. Fighting till the last ball, best ever finisher in ODIs. As someone has pointed out already, he had distinguished honor of retiring non-performing seniors which did wonders for team India but the tables have reversed now and he is being bit of an hypocrite. Should've retired 2 years ago, his last 2 years with the bat have been pathetic.
 
I think he has damaged his legacy. He now looks like a grandad trying to keep up with the kids. It's a shame because he is probably India's best ever player.
 
Nothing can damage MSD legacy. He won India the world cup and true India fans will forever be grateful for that.
 
One of the most selfish and self delusional cricketers.

Thinks he is king and bats for his average
 
It won't affect his legacy but the perception has been developing for a couple of years now that Dhoni is not what he used to be. It seems he just doesn't have that same ability anymore to finish off games, take on the bowlers. The guy is past his prime. In West Indies aswell I remember he played remarkably slow innings 2 years back in a game where India were chasing under 200. And despite playing over a hundred balls he couldn't finish the game off and got out when India needed 14 off the last 7.
 
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Stats prove MS Dhoni among the worst wicket-keepers in 2019 Cricket World Cup

https://www.foxsportsasia.com/crick...rst-wicket-keepers-in-2019-cricket-world-cup/

India have had a superb Cricket World Cup so far. The men in blue have won five out of their seven matches so far, drawing one and losing the other. They currently occupy one of the top-four spots as well. Despite that, several Indian stars have come under scrutiny but none more so than MS Dhoni.

While India are enjoying a great Cricket World Cup so far, MS Dhoni has had a torrid time. The former Indian captain has been lamented by fans and experts for his slow showing with the bat and some peculiar calls.

The Indian wicket-keeper earned the wrath of the populace once again during the match against England. He was accused of playing too cautiously at a crucial point in the match. Earlier in the tournament, Dhoni had attracted heat for the same reason against Afghanistan.

While the ex-captain goes through a tough time with the bat, stats prove that he hasn’t been any good from behind the wicket as well. Once known for his quick reflexes and his accurate calls, Dhoni has failed miserably in both departments.

According to statistics, MS Dhoni is the third-worst wicket-keeper in this edition of the Cricket World Cup when it comes to dismissals. The 2011 World Cup winner has been able to successfully dismiss just four opponents in six innings. In comparison, Australia’s Alex Carey leads the table with eighteen dismissals in eight matches!

Dhoni’s record is bettered by eight of the ten participating wicket-keepers. Afghanistan’s Ikram Alikhil and Mohammad Shahzad are the only ones behind him on the table.

Meanwhile, the 37-year-old leads the chart in terms of byes conceded. He has given away 19 byes, which is more than double of Alex Carey, who is the next person on the list.

Moreover, the Indian wicket-keeper has drawn flak for his calls against review as well. In their most recent match, Dhoni himself advised captain Virat Kohli against going upstairs for a review against Jason Roy. Had India take a review, Roy would’ve been declared out.

Nevertheless, there are still at least two matches left in the Cricket World Cup for MS Dhoni and India. If they manage to win even one of those two games, the former Champions will qualify for the semi-finals.
 
Signs of his powers waning have been there since 2016. What an awful decision to just continue on with him for 4 years, rather than invest game time in finding a real replacement.

India have an abundance of talent but their unwillingness to take a chance & sticking with the same old horses (Dhoni, Karthik) means they will never maximise their potential.
 
The guy has played for the senior Indian team over 500 times! Nearly all of those matches was as wicketkeeper too. Then he’s played every season of IPL for 12 years. Again in the dual role of keeper and batsman.

He’s also 38 years old.

With that in mind it would be more of a shock if Dhoni’s skills hadn’t declined substantially at this stage.

He’s finished at international level and either he’s in serious denial about this or he knows it himself yet still plays on for whatever selfish reason.
 
He’s finished at international level and either he’s in serious denial about this or he knows it himself yet still plays on for whatever selfish reason.

This is the thing am unable to understand what it is.. is he being selfish or in denial or Kohli Shastri co are forcing him to play, just unable to figure out!
 
The greedy corporates will milk the sponsorship money riding on dhoni at the cost of the nation winning the world cup.

Always been the same in Asian cricket.
 
This is the thing am unable to understand what it is.. is he being selfish or in denial or Kohli Shastri co are forcing him to play, just unable to figure out!

He's got crores riding on him. India is corrupt country where everything is ruled by people owning money. Corporates will milk the last of revenue dhoni can generate at cost of the nation winning world cup. Always been like this

Moreover it's the public's fault who start worshipping celebrities and make them god..
 
Never seen guys like Tendulkar more importantly Laxman complaining about any batsman let alone Dhoni. Now Ganguly has joined as well. This is the ultimate low for a player of his stature. He still has enough fan boys. But definitely a significant dent. This is a world event. So neutral fans will be less forgiving. I don't care how great a player is. Be it is Sachin or Dhoni . If you play against the interest of fans you should take the heat.
 
Post World Cup 2019, give an honourable retirement to MS Dhoni

It is tremendously painful to watch him struggling now. In his prime he was a fearless, unparalleled beast but, now he struggles to even put bat to ball. This is now long overdue. Post World Cup, BCCI should discuss with him & arrange for his retirement. We now have several Keeper batsmen who can very well fill his shoes.
 
2015 world cup should have been his last.

Too late now he will cost us the world cup for selfish reasons and such a selfish player doesn't deserve a honourable retirement. If he had retired when he should have he would have been remembered as the best ever Indian cricketer but he turned out to be selfish and money hungry like many before him.
 
Let's just hope he doesn't cost us this WC first. There's no chance of him playing in 2023, so I don't really care if he continues playing bilaterals for a year after the WC.
 
Dhoni has a vice-like grip on cricketing media, not just Indian.

So much so his fans think he can play even after the WC.

His batting might cost India the WC if the top-order have an off day.
 
it was so painful to watch Dhoni today. :ssmith:ssmith:ssmith:ssmith:ssmith India can still defend this score but if eng/aus is playing than we would be in big trouble.
 
Dhoni has a vice-like grip on cricketing media, not just Indian.

So much so his fans think he can play even after the WC.

His batting might cost India the WC if the top-order have an off day.

He has power, no doubt about that. All Sanjay said on commentary was: «well that is how Dhoni plays though Bhuvi is a good player»

But Dhoni is the greatest captain India have produced so respect to him.
 
He can do whatever he wants much like Misbah

Unlike that selfish guy Tendulkar who was only playing for 100 hundreds, Dhoni is still playing for the team but wtih diminished capability
 
He has power, no doubt about that. All Sanjay said on commentary was: «well that is how Dhoni plays though Bhuvi is a good player»

But Dhoni is the greatest captain India have produced so respect to him.

Yes respect but not at the cost of the team.

No individual should be above the team.
 
Seems Misbah is setting a bad precedent across the border and to Bangladesh with senior players. Both Mashrafe Mortaza and Dhoni are well past their sell by date and should have retired at least a year before this WC.

The guy who loves the Inti emjoi backs Dhoni like his life depends on it, yet has the nerve to bash Pant and Pandya.
 
people will eventually forget his unwillingness to retire. The damage has been done though. People will no long say "if Dhoni was still playing we would have won" because everyone now sees his demise. He should have retired on a high, making his fans wanting more. Now, most just want him to leave and that's not a good thing considering how many matches he has won for them.
 
Absolutely agree with op. He will retire with a lot of disgrace. And he can only blame himself for that. Tarnished legacy
 
Guess he made sure to protect his average in the previous game vs ENG.

Must have taken inspiration from the geest Gavasker player in the 1st WC when he got the draw for India.
 
Depends upon the result actually. If India end up winning this WC then Dhoni's poor display would barely register in the mind of the fans.
 
Not even a single 100 in any format of the game outside Asia and he has played over 500 international games including over 200 outside Asia.
 
People will forget about all this when he retires and remember all the good he did for India imo.

It’ll take only one bad game that matters & all good work will be forgotten. Just like how Yuvi was after the World T20 loss against Sri Lanka.
 
It’ll take only one bad game that matters & all good work will be forgotten. Just like how Yuvi was after the World T20 loss against Sri Lanka.

Mention Yuvraj name to an average Indian fan and they will talk about all the good stuff. Same will happen with Dhoni. Right now your annoyed at him because you think he isn’t good enough and your seeing him in every game. Once he has retired , you will remember all what he did.

He’s a legend of Indian cricket.
 
India has carried Dhoni to the knockouts - Now is his time to do what he does (it used to do) best

I still believe in Dhoni

We have carried him in the LOI team for the best 3-4 years with the only hope that he will come good the day it is needed the most.

We paid our dues.

We carried Dhoni on our back to the World Cup semi finals.

It is time now for Dhoni to finally pay back our trust.

Can you please turn the clock back and play a couple of match winning knocks for us now?

Everything that happened before will be forgotten and forgiven.

Please redeem yourself.

It is your moment

It is your space.

Go and own it.
 
He is not the same player anymore.

The best we can hope is that he is promoted to no 4 and plays an anchoring 55 (70) type of innings after the loss of a couple of early wickets.

Dhoni the attacking finisher is no more.
 
He is not the same player anymore.

The best we can hope is that he is promoted to no 4 and plays an anchoring 55 (70) type of innings after the loss of a couple of early wickets.

Dhoni the attacking finisher is no more.


People keep saying he isn't the same player anymore but he looked great in the IPL just a few weeks ago, not to mention the hundred he scored in the WC warmups.
Its bizarre what he's been doing these last few games - just inexplicable.
 
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Actually, he may well enhance his legacy. Suppose, if India get lucky with toss or on that particular day, Indian players come really good, we might very well win the WC. That will enhance his reputation only.

Let us not forget, every team has loophole in this World Cup and whoever comes good on that particular day, will win the WC this time around.
 
Let us not forget, every team has loophole in this World Cup and whoever comes good on that particular day, will win the WC this time around.


Whoever wins the toss in the two semis will win and onto the final. This has been a bat-first WC.
 
Didn't he play ordinary cricket the whole of 2011 world cup barring the final? You can't count him out yet
 
Yeah and he scored selfish 91* in that final. How many teams have sucessfully chased a target of more than 250 in world cup final? :inti

A team which had Yuvi, the guy who won India 2 WCs and arguably the greatest LOI player of his generation and Gambhir who was batting brilliantly back then ?
 
people will eventually forget his unwillingness to retire. The damage has been done though. People will no long say "if Dhoni was still playing we would have won" because everyone now sees his demise. He should have retired on a high, making his fans wanting more. Now, most just want him to leave and that's not a good thing considering how many matches he has won for them.

Ab devilliers is being lambasted for retiring on a high.
 
People keep saying he isn't the same player anymore but he looked great in the IPL just a few weeks ago, not to mention the hundred he scored in the WC warmups.
Its bizarre what he's been doing these last few games - just inexplicable.
IPL isn’t same as facing International quality bowlers, he can still dominate against team without top quality bowlers at international level as well.
He has been past it for long time now, it’s the management who are to blame for this situation.
I don’t think his legacy is tarnished but he is going to cost India the world cup though.
 
People keep saying he isn't the same player anymore but he looked great in the IPL just a few weeks ago, not to mention the hundred he scored in the WC warmups.
Its bizarre what he's been doing these last few games - just inexplicable.

IPL is t20. WC is 50 overs. Different format.
 
It's hard to see this percentage cricket from Dhoni these days . Against England it was tactical, but against Bangladesh he could have been more aggressive. By the way the pathetic performance of Karthik(after tons of ODI matches) and so called capable bat Bhuvaneswar does not help Dhoni and India as well. Look at how Shabbir and Saifuddin fought till last breath and smashed Bumrah and Shami. Look how Woakes/Plunkett, Wahab/Hasan, Santner/Grandhomme, play fearlessly for their teams when required. Unfortunately while Dhoni has declined he also does not have assurance from the team that they can stand up once he is gone.

Indian fans sometimes give too much weightage to so called talent and forget that hard work and mental fortitude rides over talent any day . That is the reason why they will continue to believe in Rahul and Karthik because of their infrequent silky cover drives or fierce hooks and will continue to get royally disappointed when they see how so called less competent players consistently over perform their super hyped but mentally weak talents.
 
It is the worst kept secret in Indian cricket right now but India’s last match in the ongoing World Cup, in all likelihood, will also be Mahendra Singh Dhoni’s last game in India colours.

If India qualify for the finals and go on to win the World Cup on July 14 at the Lord’s, it would be ideal setting for a fitting farewell to one of the legends of Indian cricket.

“You never know with M.S. Dhoni. But it is unlikely that he will continue to play for India after this World Cup. But since his decisions to quit captaincy from the three formats have been taken so suddenly, it is very difficult to predict at the moment,” a senior BCCI official told PTI on condition of anonymity.

READ: Ambati Rayudu announces retirement from all forms of cricket

The current selection committee, which is likely to stay till the October AGM, will obviously start the changeover process looking at the ICC World T20 in Australia next year.

When the new selection committee takes over from the incumbents, the possible replacements for the shorter formats will be identified with reasonable time left for the World T20s.

However, with India qualifying for the semifinals at the World Cup here, neither the team management nor the BCCI wants to talk about sensitive issue.

Dhoni has scored 223 runs in seven games at a decent strike rate of 93 plus if one goes by the scorecards but what they don’t reflect is his inability to rotate the strike and strike big.

Some have attributed it to the lack of intent and some have pointed out the his waning capabilities as a finisher, something that had once made him a top short format player in the world.

With the likes of Sachin Tendulkar and Sourav Ganguly also being critical of his approach, the team management knows only too well that they can’t carry their “beloved captain” beyond the marquee tournament.

His on-field contribution is still immense as every player who has appeared for media interactions has pointed out.

“The team management had to take a call in 2017 after the Champions Trophy. They decided that they will invest another two years in Dhoni till the 2019 World Cup. India have reached the semifinals despite his lukewarm performances so he has been carefully shielded,” a former India player said.

“No one can ask him to retire but obviously he has got the drift that post World Cup, things won’t be the same,” he said.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cric...international-cricket-end/article28270601.ece
 
As a neutral his reputation has been damaged because of his selfishness. He kicked out legends for the betterment of his side and now he himself is sticking around for personal glories and achievements. Dhoni turned out to be selfish and it hurts watching him bat like this in the death overs, he was phenomenal in his prime. He is finished.
 
He should have a retired. I can't imagine continuing on a player after winning a world cup as a captain and then taking orders from younger players. Dhoni ruined his legacy.
 
No, his legacy will be remembered forever as one of the greatest LOI captain, and the one who changed the meek mentality of Indian players (along with Ganguly).

But the ending has left a sour taste in the mount for sure (assuming he will retire after WC), that will be forgotten as soon as he announces it officially. Any rational Indian fans knew that he would be in the team only for his past reputation and brand value. However, people outside India too became aware of his demise as an individual contributor.

However, the#thala brigade will always back him, come what may, judging from the social media outrage against Sanju Manju. They are starting a campaign to remove him from commentary, not because of his atrocious commentary but because he spoke against Thala. :facepalm:
 
The only reason he is in the team at the moment is as a 2nd captain, looks like he still pulls the strings in the background and lets kohli focus on his batting
 
What do Pakistanis think of MS Dhoni now?

Indian fans have been screaming from top of their lungs about Dhonis poor strike rotation and killing Indian teams momentum for last few years. Dhoni always wans his partners (Raina, Kohli, Yuvraj) to take the risk, while Dhoni himself plays dot balls after dot balls till 48th over and hit few sixes in last 2 overs, staying not out and his fans including Pakistanis going gaga over his last ball sixes.

However, one thing I have noticed is that I never seen a single Pakistani complaining about poor strike rate of Dhoni. For Pakistanis, Dhoni is world best finisher. But now after Dhonis performance against England and his slow batting, Pakistanis saw and observed his batting pattern for the first time. Cuz this time, Dhonis batting style hurt Pakistan more than India. And finally, in our cricket clubs get together and social media, I have started to see Pakistanis also calling Dhoni for retirement.

Do Pakistanis now also agree with majority Indians that Dhoni should retire and his batting style is too slow, and Dhoni is taking a spot away from youngsters like Pant, Shaw or Gill.
 
Dhoni has past his date. It was the lack of intention from all players that was odd but such things happen. Lets move on and prepare for next WC.
 
The hate for Dhoni from Indians is mainly from Sachin Tendulkar fans who realize that Sachin was the most selfish cricketer India produced and now they want Dhoni to take that claim
 
Absolutely. Many fans have already forgotten about the days when he was in the peak form because that felt a very long time ago. He should've retired from the game after 2015 WC. We have lost so many T20 World cups under this guy and yet he was still allowed to retain his captaincy. Many have already been fed up with seeing him in Indian team.
 
MS Dhoni has definitely ruined his legacy by dragging his career. He has been a massive achiever for Indian Cricket and this is something nobody can take away from him. By the 2015 WC Dhoni as a batsman was finished. He should have retired by 2016 T20 WC or CT 2017. Honestly I don't like watching MS Dhoni bat nowadays because the way he bats its a real pain. He should end his career from both Odi and T20 formats with this World Cup. He can continue playing for CSK in IPL as he has been extremely successful for them. We need to get rid of this Asian mentality of players dragging their careers unnecessarily and not contributing enough for the team.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Happy birthday mahi bhai <a href="https://twitter.com/msdhoni?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@msdhoni</a>. Very few people understand the meaning of trust and respect and I'm glad to have had the friendship I have with you for so many years. You've been a big brother to all of us and as I said before, you will always be my captain 🙂 <a href="https://t.co/Wxsf5fvH2m">pic.twitter.com/Wxsf5fvH2m</a></p>— Virat Kohli (@imVkohli) <a href="https://twitter.com/imVkohli/status/1147837252552146944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 7, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
I think his legacy of being a a legendary captain will never be tarnished.
 
Big day today coming in at number 7.

The pressure is on, can he lift his team.
 
Big day today coming in at number 7.

The pressure is on, can he lift his team.

Difference why he would never be an Imran Khan.... Khan came up the order, at no3 in crucial matches for team sake.... Dhoni goes even lower .... disappointing to see how he is shaping up before retirement.... one of my fav indian cricketer and ..... just feel sad
 
His lack of strike rotation has been shocking for a batsman of such calibre and experience. When he plays out dots upon dots you'd think he has it all figured out and will make up for it later on but he hasn't been doing that, so he needs to start rotating the strike and not add pressure on the other batsmen.
 
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