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Have Ramiz Raja and Wasim Khan handled the NZC and ECB withdrawal well?

Here are the exact words of our newly appointed PCB Chairman :

"We are going into the WC where we initially had one target (India), and where we have now added 2 teams (NZ and England). We are not going to lose because you did wrong and we will avenge that in the ground."

These kind of statements have resulted in nothing but humiliations in WC games against India, and yet, our former players have not learnt the lesson.

Secondly, he is clearly portraying NZ and England as some sort of bad guys, thus further damaging the relationship with their boards, and the chances of them touring us in the future.

I'm okay with this too. There is a time and place for everything. It's good that Ramiz is channeling the anger of fans. The boards need to understand that it's not business as usual, something really nasty and unprecedented has happened. They are the ones politicizing the sport, what are we supposed to do, just stay quiet? Recall Ramiz's statements about showing aggression before all this happened, and how it felt off. Now the times have caught up to him.
 
Another thread which completely misses the point.

The PCB has actually done really well in getting some cricket back to Pakistan and in building bridges with foreign Boards.

And it has all been destroyed in the last six weeks by the Pakistan government and ISI's support for the Taliban.

There is only one, I repeat ONE strategy which can lead to Pakistan hosting western teams again.

The players and PCB are going to have to do what the South African players and Board did during the days of Apartheid.

They are going to have to come out in front of the cricket world and express their total opposition to their country's support for the Taliban regime, and they are going to have to say that it is evil.

It was hard for Barry Richards, Mike Procter and the Pollock brothers to come out and disown and criticise the Apartheid government that their own white South African friends and family (and in some cases they themselves) had elected. And for a while they were despised by their own community.

Two cricket tours of Pakistan have been cancelled in the three weeks since the Taliban regained power. It's not a coincidence - it's the underlying cause.

And nothing that the PCB or the players do can make the slightest difference - unless they condemn what has caused his.

This is some strange stuff. Pakistan should change its foreign policy to accommodate cricket boards influenced by America and India? Your post assumes a lot of things about the Taliban, and this is not even to get into how the Taliban emerged and succeeded, and Pakistan's role in all this. You want cricketers to come out and apologize for the Taliban and disassociate themselves from the government's policy? I can't believe I'm reading this. We should just apologize for existing and hope the cricket boards will have mercy on us and play the sport with us.
 
Lol are you for real?

Pakistan isnt going to shoot itself in the head to save its foot The taliban are here to stay and making them pakistans enemies isnt a good idea considering whats gone on over the last 20 yrs

If thats the reason for the isolation so be it Pakistan cricket will recover theres still enough boards that want to play them There will be no apologies or calling the taliban out

Laughable suggestion

I'm just being pragmatic.

The only thing that has changed is the return of the Taliban. And yet every tour of Pakistan is now getting cancelled. NZ at least had a security justification, but England didn't even bother to provide a plausible justification - they just cancelled the tour.

Pakistan's support for the Taliban makes Pakistan a Pariah state.

(Defined as "an outcast in the international community").

There is literally NOTHING the PCB can do to make Pakistan a viable host for international series while that support remains in place.
 
This is some strange stuff. Pakistan should change its foreign policy to accommodate cricket boards influenced by America and India? Your post assumes a lot of things about the Taliban, and this is not even to get into how the Taliban emerged and succeeded, and Pakistan's role in all this. You want cricketers to come out and apologize for the Taliban and disassociate themselves from the government's policy? I can't believe I'm reading this. We should just apologize for existing and hope the cricket boards will have mercy on us and play the sport with us.

Procter, Pollock and Richards and the rest of the white South Africans did exactly that. They condemned their own government's policies and saved their careers.

A big part of the problem is that support for the Taliban seems to be accepted within Pakistan due to a failure to comprehend that it condemns Pakistan to the status of being a Pariah state.

But Pariah states lose any influence. They can jump up and down and complain, but nobody takes any notice of them.

Consider who the other Pariah states are.

Transnistria
South Ossetia
Somaliland
Northern Cyprus
Nagorno-Karabakh
Abkhazia

It's a pretty unfortunate situation to be in. And sadly it has consequences - as the PCB is discovering.

I'm not actually defending this situation. I'm just calling it out for what it is. This isn't the PCB's fault, and they cannot fix it.
 
While I detest Taliban [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] you seem like a white apologist right now .

West has had no issues with Qatar, Saudi, UAE supporting Taliban or even hosting them.

The only practical issue here is financial muscle, or in words of Fawad the minister that western bloc wasn’t allowed to have bases in Pakistan anymore.
 
Procter, Pollock and Richards and the rest of the white South Africans did exactly that. They condemned their own government's policies and saved their careers.

A big part of the problem is that support for the Taliban seems to be accepted within Pakistan due to a failure to comprehend that it condemns Pakistan to the status of being a Pariah state.

But Pariah states lose any influence. They can jump up and down and complain, but nobody takes any notice of them.

Consider who the other Pariah states are.

Transnistria
South Ossetia
Somaliland
Northern Cyprus
Nagorno-Karabakh
Abkhazia

It's a pretty unfortunate situation to be in. And sadly it has consequences - as the PCB is discovering.

I'm not actually defending this situation. I'm just calling it out for what it is. This isn't the PCB's fault, and they cannot fix it.

You are comparing Pakistan to breakaway regions not even recognized by anyone?
Stick to your analysis of historical cricket games. Geo politics is not your cup of tea.....
 
While I detest Taliban [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] you seem like a white apologist right now .

West has had no issues with Qatar, Saudi, UAE supporting Taliban or even hosting them.

The only practical issue here is financial muscle, or in words of Fawad the minister that western bloc wasn’t allowed to have bases in Pakistan anymore.

With respect, cricketing links are different.

There are only 7 traditional Test playing countries - Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand, West Indies, India and Pakistan. We later saw Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe join, and briefly Afghanistan, although Afghanistan is no more a Test playing country than Pluto is a planet.

The original 10 countries are bound by a common past and shared cultural and sporting and linguistic experiences.

England could play Saudi Arabia in a FIFA World Cup, but that means meeting for a couple of hours on neutral territory.

Whereas a Test tour involves at least six weeks spent in a country. It entails much deeper links - that's why Athers and Bumble love Pakistan the way they do.

That's why cricket and rugby union were the two sports which were weaponised against South Africa's Apartheid regime.

There were players prepared to sell their souls for the South African Rand during apartheid just as players will continue to play in the PSL.

But international cricket is a small, closed community. And I don't think that Pakistani cricket lovers currently really understand what is going on, and why they are suddenly outcasts once again.

Is it unfair? Probably.

Do I like it? No, I don't.

But I do think that people need to understand the new reality, and act accordingly.
 
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Probably not. It may sound slavish but I think Pak should have considered playing the series at a neutral venue and continue to maintain good relationship with all the boards.

As of now they have spoiled relationship with NZC, they already have a spoiled relationship with BCCI, now they are critical of ECB, most likely Aussies won't come to Pakistan, so Pak may spoil that relationship as well. Basically that's 4 countries Pakistan are looking not to play bilateral against, unless they tour Pak, which as of now is unlikely.

The way Ramiz and Wasim have humiliated Zimbabwe in the past has shown their lack of maturity in dealing with boards that have good relationship and have been supportive of Pakistan cricket. A team can lose comprehensively at times, doesn't mean you end up humiliating them for no fault.

PCB hasn't had the best of relationship with Bangladesh as well, but at least it seems to be improving now.

So if you see overall, PCB is isolating themselves, which is not a good sign.

non-emotional, sane and unbiased approach towards conflict resolution, good advice
 
With respect, cricketing links are different.

There are only 7 traditional Test playing countries - Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand, West Indies, India and Pakistan. We later saw Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe join, and briefly Afghanistan, although Afghanistan is no more a Test playing country than Pluto is a planet.

The original 10 countries are bound by a common past and shared cultural and sporting and linguistic experiences.

England could play Saudi Arabia in a FIFA World Cup, but that means meeting for a couple of hours on neutral territory.

Whereas a Test tour involves at least six weeks spent in a country. It entails much deeper links - that's why Athers and Bumble love Pakistan the way they do.

That's why cricket and rugby union were the two sports which were weaponised against South Africa's Apartheid regime.

There were players prepared to sell their souls for the South African Rand during apartheid just as players will continue to play in the PSL.

But international cricket is a small, closed community. And I don't think that Pakistani cricket lovers currently really understand what is going on, and why they are suddenly outcasts once again.

Is it unfair? Probably.

Do I like it? No, I don't.

But I do think that people need to understand the new reality, and act accordingly.

We have understood quite well from the moment it happened that this is about paying Pakistan back for the Taliban's victory. That's the only thing that has changed. I agree with you that nothing will really change, regardless of what the PCB does or doesn't do, as long as Pakistan is seen as supportive of the Taliban, which it will continue to be, indefinitely. In that sense, this is beyond cricket, it is pure politics. But you make a mistaken comparison to apartheid, universally condemned, and the Taliban, who are not universally condemned, not even within Pakistan. The correct stance for cricketers is not to distance themselves from Pakistan's foreign policy, because this is nothing like apartheid, but for cricket to disengage from politics of any kind. Are you saying that individual Pakistani players should save their own careers by engaging in freelance politics with the Pakistani government as their antagonist? How is that even possible when I suspect that many of them probably wouldn't be against the Taliban's victory? Quite aside from the religious aspect, the Taliban's win is a major setback for the American empire (the way I see it, and the way other left analysts have seen it), so on that score alone it is not something unambiguous like apartheid, or slavery and Jim Crow in the U.S. But I agree, Pakistan is again isolated, and that is the only explanation for what has happened, and there does not seem to be a way out of this trap.
 
This is not about support for the Taliban. After 9/11, Pakistan were considered Taliban supporters and yet we had many tours including England, NZ and South Africa. Apart from the Aussies who are always in Rameez’ words “spooked” all too easily, Pakistan tours continued pretty much as normal. The world was in a much more precarious position then and the taliban were considered a lot more dangerous than they are now.

The difference between then and now is that Pakistan bent over for the US and UK and allowed them to use pak as bases then and they are not bending over now.

I’m not getting in to merits of why they bent over - maybe there were good reasons for it - I.e avoid getting carpet bombed.

However, that is the main difference.

So what people are advocating under the veil of “apologising”, “bootlicking”, “playing it safe” is to just basically bend over and give up. Perhaps if we kissed their feet and handed over power to the US and the UK, these people will be even happier.
 
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There is a way of doing things.

Yes, this was a setback.

Yes, the NZ government did wrong.

That still doesn't allow the PCB to act like a bunch of fan boys.

Had they dealt with the situation behind closed doors without screaming their lungs out on Twitter and in the press, a NZ tour would have happened in the near future and it would have sent a positive image of a professionnal Cricket Board.

This childish behaviour has sent us even back than before, and fans are not realising it.

Agree about the behaviour and the credibility, or lack of it that portraits
 
We have understood quite well from the moment it happened that this is about paying Pakistan back for the Taliban's victory. That's the only thing that has changed. I agree with you that nothing will really change, regardless of what the PCB does or doesn't do, as long as Pakistan is seen as supportive of the Taliban, which it will continue to be, indefinitely. In that sense, this is beyond cricket, it is pure politics. But you make a mistaken comparison to apartheid, universally condemned, and the Taliban, who are not universally condemned, not even within Pakistan. The correct stance for cricketers is not to distance themselves from Pakistan's foreign policy, because this is nothing like apartheid, but for cricket to disengage from politics of any kind. Are you saying that individual Pakistani players should save their own careers by engaging in freelance politics with the Pakistani government as their antagonist? How is that even possible when I suspect that many of them probably wouldn't be against the Taliban's victory? Quite aside from the religious aspect, the Taliban's win is a major setback for the American empire (the way I see it, and the way other left analysts have seen it), so on that score alone it is not something unambiguous like apartheid, or slavery and Jim Crow in the U.S. But I agree, Pakistan is again isolated, and that is the only explanation for what has happened, and there does not seem to be a way out of this trap.

I think you have touched on the fundamental problem here - a failure of the two sides to understand the reality of what the other thinks.

I marched against Apartheid. I hated it.

But all of us in the west view the Taliban as infinitely more evil than Apartheid.

But as long as the people running Pakistan fail to grasp the absolute disgust that westerners have towards not just the Taliban but also anyone who supports them - and yes, I mean Pakistan's government and ISI - then there is simply no way that you are going to be able to take the steps that you would have to take to be able to host western teams again.
 
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PCB were brave in their response led by Ramiz and Wasim. That could to be applauded yet there is thin line between brave and stupidity.

PCB went on the "too brave" approach which I feel is stupidity, where their rants against the top countries, could spoil relationships, goodwill in cricket fraternity.

PCB should bring more stakeholders, be it ICC, media yet they choose to fight a lonely battle.
 
didn't even know ramiz was the pcb chairman

not bad tbh
better than some of others
whats others thoughts on this
 
I think Ramiz has been brave and sometimes over emotional which is understandable
 
Is cricket at home super critical ? There is a big alliance that wants to restrict cricket so let it be. Cricket will die eventually because interest is dying among leading nations. If there's no India, probably death will happen more sooner

WK is doing a good job and so is Ramiz. It's not easy to see all your work gone with a stupid excuse.
 
IMO, there is nothing professional about they way it has been handled.
Ramiz strategy right now is to express anger and try to form an opinion which will be popular in Pakistan but he should not be doing it by burning bridges with other boards.
This way will succeed only internally but fail externally.
His role is guide Pak cricket and not hang other boards and their players
 
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Good cop, bad cop when it comes to the ECB at the moment.

Wasim waiting, while Ramiz is bowling bouncers.
 
While I detest Taliban [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] you seem like a white apologist right now .

West has had no issues with Qatar, Saudi, UAE supporting Taliban or even hosting them.

The only practical issue here is financial muscle, or in words of Fawad the minister that western bloc wasn’t allowed to have bases in Pakistan anymore.

Saudi and UAE dont have relations with taliban any more. What they had was pre 9/11.

Qatar hosted a peace talk delegation of Taliban.

Pakistan otoh is accused of hiding the taliban leadership, providing them refuge, providing them support, helping them fight by providing arms, training, logistics etc.

Coming to what [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] said, as usual he is exaggerating. The uk government says that the government had no objection to the tour. So surely there is no political conspiracy here.

Ofcourse pakistan's credibility is hit, not that there was a lot when OBL was found in abottabad or when un sanctioned terrorists roam around in pakistan. The result of loss of credibility is that Ardern couldn't be convinced by even imran.
 
Saudi and UAE dont have relations with taliban any more. What they had was pre 9/11.

Qatar hosted a peace talk delegation of Taliban.

Pakistan otoh is accused of hiding the taliban leadership, providing them refuge, providing them support, helping them fight by providing arms, training, logistics etc.

Coming to what [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] said, as usual he is exaggerating. The uk government says that the government had no objection to the tour. So surely there is no political conspiracy here.

Ofcourse pakistan's credibility is hit, not that there was a lot when OBL was found in abottabad or when un sanctioned terrorists roam around in pakistan. The result of loss of credibility is that Ardern couldn't be convinced by even imran.

I don't think there's a political conspiracy.

I just think that the return of the Taliban took away all of Pakistan's influence.
 
IMO, there is nothing professional about they way it has been handled.
Ramiz strategy right now is to express anger and try to form an opinion which will be popular in Pakistan but he should not be doing it by burning bridges with other boards.
This way will succeed only internally but fail externally.
His role is guide Pak cricket and not hang other boards and their players

There are no bridges to begin with. No need to stay under this delusion. Better accept reality and show the mirror to these board. We're not getting any favors with status quo, better ruffle some feathers.

Perfectly handled by PCB
 
Saudi and UAE dont have relations with taliban any more. What they had was pre 9/11.

Qatar hosted a peace talk delegation of Taliban.

Pakistan otoh is accused of hiding the taliban leadership, providing them refuge, providing them support, helping them fight by providing arms, training, logistics etc.

Coming to what [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] said, as usual he is exaggerating. The uk government says that the government had no objection to the tour. So surely there is no political conspiracy here.

Ofcourse pakistan's credibility is hit, not that there was a lot when OBL was found in abottabad or when un sanctioned terrorists roam around in pakistan. The result of loss of credibility is that Ardern couldn't be convinced by even imran.

Where were the 9/11 hijackers hiding?

Where the London bridge attackers hiding?

Where was the NZ mosque attacker hiding?

Not a single 9/11 hijacker was Pakistani or Afghan.

If OBL was hiding in Pakistan then that's on him as he was using poor countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan, he was a parasite with a lot of money.

AL Qaeda identified Pakistan as an enemy.

Pakistan is a non NATO ally who helped in WOT.

You can't make the victim a preparator as much as your demented media and your hatred for Pakistan wants it to be that way.

Pakistan lost 80 thousand people in this WOT, have some empathy and compassion if you are capable which I think not looking at your ridiculous media with the video game as evidence nonsense that world media is laughing about right now. Your credibility was literally shot from the sky when your jet came crashing down.

India lost in Afghanistan and their $3 billion investment in terror networks to destabilize Pakistan, they were never winning in the first place, so go sit down and enjoy your cricket and save the political chat for people who have more "credibility" than you.
 
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