Have Sajid Khan and Noman Ali’s performances proved that Ravichandran Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja are nothing special?

[Ab Fan]

Naah again this is a fallacy.

Before matters because it shows Noman's bowling ability on flatter wickets where he failed.

This "rank turners" is a convenient excuse by Pakistani fans to deflect criticism. Rank turners were present between 2021-2023 and the two matches of the NZ series in 2024 and in the SA series in 2015. Outside of that all those pitches were flat.

2016-2019 Jadeja averaged in the low 20s on pitches Kohli and Pujara averaged 60+ and guys like Mayank Agarwal, Dhawan, Vijay made merry.

Post 2024 Eng series also averaging low where Gill and Jaiswal are averaging close to 60.

Indian pitches magically become "rank turners" when discussing stats of Indian spinners and "flat tracks" when discussing stats of Indian batsmen lol.

Rank turners produced by India in last 10 years:-

2015 SA- Mohali and Nagpur
2017 Aus - Pune
2021 Eng - Ahmedabad Pink ball
2023 Aus - Indore
2024 NZ - Pune ( Santner match)

Remove these 6 matches and both Ashwin and Jadeja would still be averaging similar numbers with bowl and 500 and 300 wickets respectively to their name.

 

[saimayubera]

If you can compare Noman to any Indian spinner it should be 19 averaging Axar Patel.

He thrived in the 2021-2023 turning track era but was poor when pitches became flat.

Jadeja has multiple series where he has bowled well on flat tracks. Noman has ZERO.

England in India 2016 - 25.84
Ind in SL 2017 - 28.76
SL in India 2017 - 25.90
Ind in Aus 2018 - 28.57
Ind in Aus 2020/21 - 15
Eng in Ind 2024 - 25.05

 

[saimayubera]

Doing it for 1 year and doing it for 10+ years is a huge difference.

Jadeja is in the league of Botham and Miller because he has done it for 10-12 years and isn’t done yet.

Noman Ali as a spinner has done it for only 1 year so comparisons are laughable and meaningless. He can be compared with Axar Patel although even there Patel is many years younger than Noman.

Noman hasn't even done it for 1 year.

He has done on extreme dustbowls where no one can score a run. Even someone mediocre like Warrican managed to defeat Pakistan.

Noman played in all of the 2022 series vs Eng, Aus and NZ and was very very poor in all three.

Jadeja has done well in lots of series on flat pitches at home where the likes of Rohit, Kohli, Pujara and now Gill and Jaiswal have made merry.

Axar Patel is the correct comparison because he has only done well (with the ball) on turning tracks.

 

[Rajdeep]

Pakistani players always overshadow Indian counterparts in these discussion forums using arbitary metrics. However, when they meet on field, India always comes out as victorious. Wonder why?

#14Sept
#21Sept
#28Sept

 

[Ab Fan]

Noman hasn't even done it for 1 year.

He has done on extreme dustbowls where no one can score a run. Even someone mediocre like Warrican managed to defeat Pakistan.

Noman played in all of the 2022 series vs Eng, Aus and NZ and was very very poor in all three.

Jadeja has done well in lots of series on flat pitches at home where the likes of Rohit, Kohli, Pujara and now Gill and Jaiswal have made merry.

Axar Patel is the correct comparison because he has only done well (with the ball) on turning tracks.

It is laughable comparison simply. It is like comparing Sreesanth to Steyn/Philander just because Sreensanth won a test match in South Africa.

 

[mominsaigol]

Ashwin and Jadeja outbowled every opposition spinner for 10 years, Chacha and Sajid were inferior to Warrican when wi toured.

They are not comparable.

Noman and Sajid weren't inferior to Warrican lol. They outbowled him as well.

WI beat Pakistan yes but that doesn't mean warrican was better.

I agree ashwin and Jadeja are better by miles and miles. But let's not create fake narratives either about warrican lol.

 

[saimayubera]

Pakistani players always overshadow Indian counterparts in these discussion forums using arbitary metrics. However, when they meet on field, India always comes out as victorious. Wonder why?

#14Sept
#21Sept
#28Sept

Because those are cherry picked dumb metrics.

Its like saying Bhuvi has proved Akhtar is nothing special because of similar test bowling averages.

When reality is

1. Bhuvi has a much lower sample size
2. Bhuvi was almost exclusively used in seam bowling conditions especially in Kohli's captaincy

Noman is the same

 

[saimayubera]

Noman and Sajid weren't inferior to Warrican lol. They outbowled him as well.

WI beat Pakistan yes but that doesn't mean warrican was better.

I agree ashwin and Jadeja are better by miles and miles. But let's not create fake narratives either about warrican lol.

No they didn't. Warrican was the best spinner in that series and was the Man of the Series.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Chacha, with his guile would be a handful on those Ind wickets. If Jadeja can turn it, chacha would turn it more. Chacha would struggle on the flatter surfaces but as we saw Jadeja also looks very average on those

With due respect , you are completely wrong about this. To be effective on Indian pitches, you have to turn the ball at high pace. Guile is not as important as pace and overspin and keeping it within the stumps.

Chacha turns it only when he flights it above the eyeline at slow speeds.

Great on certain surfaces but will most likely fail on Indian pitches.

 

[saimayubera]

With due respect , you are completely wrong about this. To be effective on Indian pitches, you have to turn the ball at high pace. Guile is not as important as pace and overspin and keeping it within the stumps.

Chacha turns it only when he flights it above the eyeline at slow speeds.

Great on certain surfaces but will most likely fail on Indian pitches.

He even failed on Pakistani flat pitches as well as Bangladeshi pitches.

 

[harshjoshi87]

There can't be any comparison. Ashwin & Jadeja won every home series for India from 2013-2024 except the NZ series last year. Ashwin & Jadeja also contributed with both bat & ball in India's victories in Australia in 2018 & 2021. Besides they were part of innumerable victories in white ball cricket too. So this comparison is laughable to say the least.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Doing it for 1 year and doing it for 10+ years is a huge difference.

Jadeja is in the league of Botham and Miller because he has done it for 10-12 years and isn’t done yet.

Noman Ali as a spinner has done it for only 1 year so comparisons are laughable and meaningless. He can be compared with Axar Patel although even there Patel is many years younger than Noman.

Yes I agree.

The comparison is not valid.

It is purely hypothetical for Nomi. Although I do think he is a wonderful test match spinner and hypothetically up there with Ashwin and Jadeja interns of skill and guile.

Sajid is much far behind on ability.

 

[imshally81]

Sample size is too small for Nouman & Sajid... Need 5 more years

 

[BouncerGuy]

Ash retired at 38 but Nomi is bowling 60-70 overs at 39...

 

[Hellion]

Ash retired at 38 but Nomi is bowling 60-70 overs at 39...

Wow. Such incredible fitness.

 

[gazza619]

Ash retired at 38 but Nomi is bowling 60-70 overs at 39...

Nomi’s real age is probably 43-44 which makes it even more impressive

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes I agree.

The comparison is not valid.

It is purely hypothetical for Nomi. Although I do think he is a wonderful test match spinner and hypothetically up there with Ashwin and Jadeja interns of skill and guile.

Sajid is much far behind on ability.

Is he really up there with Ashwin in terms of skills?

 

[Katwalindian]

He only played in Aus series on the flattest pitches on planet earth where Lyon didnt take a single wicket to save his life....he still took 6 wickets in an innings.....I dint think even jadeja would have done anything on those patta wickets......

Noman hasn't even done it for 1 year.

He has done on extreme dustbowls where no one can score a run. Even someone mediocre like Warrican managed to defeat Pakistan.

Noman played in all of the 2022 series vs Eng, Aus and NZ and was very very poor in all three.

Jadeja has done well in lots of series on flat pitches at home where the likes of Rohit, Kohli, Pujara and now Gill and Jaiswal have made merry.

Axar Patel is the correct comparison because he has only done well (with the ball) on turning tracks.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Is he really up there with Ashwin in terms of skills?

I think you can make a case for him. He is a very wily spinner. How his career would have panned out we don't know.

Sajid is a lesser bowler. He is more condition dependent.

 

[Bewal Express]

With due respect , you are completely wrong about this. To be effective on Indian pitches, you have to turn the ball at high pace. Guile is not as important as pace and overspin and keeping it within the stumps.

Chacha turns it only when he flights it above the eyeline at slow speeds.

Great on certain surfaces but will most likely fail on Indian pitches.

I agree speed matters, however I think he can speed up if needed. Chacha has bowling intelligence that we often dont see from PK spinners

 

[mazkhan]

Chacha is a gun player

 

[hur rizvi]

I liked SA pitch. It wasn’t a rank turner to be honest. It was a spin-supporting wicket with increasing difficulty as match progressed.

WI pitches were bad with no chance for batters. The fact that we saw a century and multiple fifties from both teams it was pretty bat-able

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

I liked SA pitch. It wasn’t a rank turner to be honest. It was a spin-supporting wicket with increasing difficulty as match progressed.

WI pitches were bad with no chance for batters. The fact that we saw a century and multiple fifties from both teams it was pretty bat-able

Don't you want a proper turner have three spinners and go for the kill finish south africa.

 

[saimayubera]

No they didn't. Warrican was the best spinner in that series and was the Man of the Series.

View attachment 158757

View attachment 158758

I have realized @mominsaigol has still not replied to this.

He lies a lot and most prolly don't even catch it.

Lies I have caught:
1. Warner and Smith have 6 ICC trophies including multiple T20 WCs
2. Pakistan women have won an ICC trophy which Indian women hasn't
3. Sajid/Noman outbowled Warrican

There must be many lies I have not caught. But then again, expected from the "heir of Saigol corp" lol.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Ravi Ashwin blames the rookie misktake which SA spinners committed in the 1st Test match against Pakistan

"They kept bowling outside off stump instead of targeting the stumps which doesnt work in the subcontinent"

“In Guwahati, India might perform well against South Africa and even put them under pressure. But just because the venue is in India doesn’t mean it truly feels like a home match. For me, it’s more like playing an away game within our own country, since we haven’t played many Tests there. As the home side, we were unsure of what conditions to expect, that’s the point I’m trying to make.”

 

[ataullah]

Noman hasn't even done it for 1 year.

He has done on extreme dustbowls where no one can score a run. Even someone mediocre like Warrican managed to defeat Pakistan.

Noman played in all of the 2022 series vs Eng, Aus and NZ and was very very poor in all three.

Jadeja has done well in lots of series on flat pitches at home where the likes of Rohit, Kohli, Pujara and now Gill and Jaiswal have made merry.

Axar Patel is the correct comparison because he has only done well (with the ball) on turning tracks.

So same will apply to bumrah vs Akram. How long has bumrah been at the top of his game compared to Akram?

 

[tiger_khan]

Ravi Ashwin blames the rookie misktake which SA spinners committed in the 1st Test match against Pakistan

"They kept bowling outside off stump instead of targeting the stumps which doesnt work in the subcontinent"

“In Guwahati, India might perform well against South Africa and even put them under pressure. But just because the venue is in India doesn’t mean it truly feels like a home match. For me, it’s more like playing an away game within our own country, since we haven’t played many Tests there. As the home side, we were unsure of what conditions to expect, that’s the point I’m trying to make.”

Let me tell you this...after the spin condition series in Pakistan, SA batters will be better prepared for India

SA batters might be failing in Pakistan but they and their analysts are thorough professionals. They will learn from their mistakes.

 

[saimayubera]

So same will apply to bumrah vs Akram. How long has bumrah been at the top of his game compared to Akram?

Not even the same comparison.

That would be like saying Bumrah is greater than Akram after 2019 when Bumrah was doing well and had 62 wickets at 19.

Bumrah is playing his eighth year of test cricket and has 226 wickets compared to Akram's 414 (54.5%) at a much better average. Already has more 5fers in wins outside Asia compared to Akram.

Also has played everywhere so has a body of work.

Also Bumrah's peak rating of 908 is higher than Akram's of 830.

These things don't apply to Noman. If he does it for 4-5 years more, maybe then.

Noman has 93 wickets compared to Ashwin's 537 (17%) and Jadeja's 338 (27.5%).

Both Ashwin and Jadeja have been ranked the no 1 bowler in the world and have peak ratings of 904 and 899 respectively. Noman's peak rating is 806.

 

[saimayubera]

Let me tell you this...after the spin condition series in Pakistan, SA batters will be better prepared for India

SA batters might be failing in Pakistan but they and their analysts are thorough professionals. They will learn from their mistakes.

That is true but then you can say the same for Bangladesh and West Indies who won/drew in Pak before being whitewashed in India.

 

[tiger_khan]

That is true but then you can say the same for Bangladesh and West Indies who won/drew in Pak before being whitewashed in India.

What's the ranking of these three teams in Test Cricket again?

 

[saimayubera]

What's the ranking of these three teams in Test Cricket again?

Doesn't negate the fact that they did well in Pakistan before failing in India.

 

[tiger_khan]

Doesn't negate the fact that they did well in Pakistan before failing in India

Nevertheless, how much is the gap between SA and WI and BD team rankings?

May be for the benefit of the other posters, you can explain what qualitatively constitutes this gap? Are top ranking teams capable of adapting, faster than the very low-ranking teams? Are low-ranking teams inconsistent? they would win one series and lose the next one?

Enlighten us please

 

[Buffet]

So same will apply to bumrah vs Akram. How long has bumrah been at the top of his game compared to Akram?

Long enough to bag 150+ test wickets in Aus, SA and Eng. That's 50% higher than second most tally from any other Asian pacer in Eng, Aus and SA taken together.

Talking about lack of longevity was fine for Bumrah 5 years back despite having quality, but it's not the case anymore.

 

[ataullah]

Long enough to bag 150+ test wickets in Aus, SA and Eng. That's 50% higher than second most tally from any other Asian pacer in Eng, Aus and SA taken together.

Talking about lack of longevity was fine for Bumrah 5 years back despite having quality, but it's not the case anymore.

View attachment 158768

In comparison to Akram is the question bumrah does have longevity but is it enough to be compared to a wasim akram and his 400 plus test wickets

 

[Buffet]

In comparison to Akram is the question bumrah does have longevity but is it enough to be compared to a wasim akram and his 400 plus test wickets

Over all his longevity is never going to be same as Wasim, but when you start looking at tough tours wickets, outside Asia wickets, away from home wickets tally, he is right up there in longevity. And then he is ahead in quality.

Where is lack right now is home wickets tally and getting something like 100+ wickets agaisnt minnows/weaker teams. Given India does not play Pakistan so one less team to play. Also, not sure if India has been playing Zim. Wasim had around 50 wickets just against Zim. So all wickets are not same. Anyway, after certain point longevity won't be a substitute for quality, case in point Anderson. No pacer is likely to get that tally, but many bowlers( Garner, Holding etc) with less than half wickets are rated ahead of Anderson due to having enough longevity. Not saying that Anderosn is in league of Wasim. Now if Garner, Holding etc had just 100 test wickets then longevity will be an issue in rating them ahead of Anderson.

My point was not to show that he has more longevity than Wasim. That's never going to happen. Some time back it would have been fine to penalizer him for lack of longevity when rating, now it's a non-issue. Sure, 75+ wickets from here at similar output will propel him among the top 3-4 test bowlers, but it's not needed to rate him high anymore. Situation is no way similar to Naman/Sajid.

 

[saimayubera]

In comparison to Akram is the question bumrah does have longevity but is it enough to be compared to a wasim akram and his 400 plus test wickets

Thing is Bumrah has already achieved things Wasim hasn't. Not true of Noman with regards to Ashwin/Jadeja.

Bumrah's peak rating of 908 is greater than Wasim's 830. Also Bumrah has been ranked no 1. Wasim has never been 1 in his career.

Similarly Bumrah has more wickets in SENA than Wasim as well as same number of match winning 5fers.

Noman in no way or form compares with Ashwin/Jadeja, both of whom have been ranked no 1 and have peak ratings of 904/899. Noman's peak is 806.

If Noman continues this for 4-5 years including similar performances in Bangladesh, SL, WI (where Ashwin/Jadeja were devastating as well) with decent supporting roles in SENA (Jadeja has good average in Aus/SA while Ashwin in England) then we can have this conversation.

 

[saimayubera]

Over all his longevity is never going to be same as Wasim, but when you start looking at tough tours wickets, outside Asia wickets, away from home wickets tally, he is right up there in longevity. And then he is ahead in quality.

Where is lack right now is home wickets tally and getting something like 100+ wickets agaisnt minnows/weaker teams. Given India does not play Pakistan so one less team to play. Also, not sure if India has been playing Zim. Wasim had around 50 wickets just against Zim. So all wickets are not same. Anyway, after certain point longevity won't be a substitute for quality, case in point Anderson. No pacer is likely to get that tally, but many bowlers( Garner, Holding etc) with less than half wickets are rated ahead of Anderson due to having enough longevity. Not saying that Anderosn is in league of Wasim. Now if Garner, Holding etc had just 100 test wickets then longevity will be an issue in rating them ahead of Anderson.

My point was not to show that he has more longevity than Wasim. That's never going to happen. Some time back it would have been fine to penalizer him for lack of longevity when rating, now it's a non-issue. Sure, 75+ wickets from here at similar output will propel him among the top 3-4 test bowlers, but it's not needed to rate him high anymore. Situation is no way similar to Naman/Sajid.

Bumrah-Wasim-Anderson comparisons

Bumrah - 226 @ 19.83
Wasim - 414 @ 23.62
Anderson - 704 @ 26.46

Bumrah has 54.5% of Wasim's wickets at an average 3.79 lower
Wasim has 58.8% of Anderson's wickets at an average 2.84 lower

 

[tiger_khan]

TBH all these stats mean absolutely nothing when comparing bowlers from the pre DRS era with the post DRS era

It's not like comparing apples with oranges but have the preceding era bowlers at a disadvantage

If these stats need to be taken into account seriously then they should highlight the victims of modern era bowlers, which were given not out by the umpires without the DRS but turned in to a wicket

Needless to say, the attitudes of umpires have changed since the advent of DRS. Umpires have been giving less benefit of doubt to batsmen because they know that batsmen can always utilize the DRS

In the pre DRS era, bowlers were at a disadvantage because the umpires always gave the benefit of doubt to batsmen

If a batsman had his foot planted far out or was standing outside the crease, he was hardly given LBW.

Same with the faint edges. The umpires of the past did not have earpieces to help them with the sound


Hence the comparison of bowlers of different era and declaring one better than the other is a futile exercise

 

[Devadwal]

Both are exposed by South Africa.

First they out bowled by Warrican, now by Maharaj/ Harmer/ Muthusamy.

Even 38 year Asif Afridi taken 6 fer while they conceded 119/1, 92/2

Only idiots can compared Sajid/ nonam to Ash/ jadeja

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

Why only Noman and Sajid, very shortly you’ll probably have people bringing Asif Afridi to this comparison, on the basis of a one Test performance, ‘what could have been’ and vibes…

 

[Savak]

Noman and Sajid have proven to be worthless on flat pitchces. Both need rank turners to be relevant

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Noman is a good bowler.

Sajid is a bit limited.

 

[Kianig89]

Any Series won by Noman and Sajid , please do mention

 

[Savak]

Any Series won by Noman and Sajid , please do mention

Apart from the England series, none

 

[sithb]

Longevity in the game needs to be considered as well. As are the opposition that India play against.

Bit tired of hearing comparisons between cricketer. And that's been a running debate in the forum for quite a while from what I gather.

 

[Savak]

Longevity in the game needs to be considered as well. As are the opposition that India play against.

Bit tired of hearing comparisons between cricketer. And that's been a running debate in the forum for quite a while from what I gather.

Ashwin and Jadeja have helped India build a fortress at home for a good 12-13 years.

Nauman and Sajid have failed to that beyond a series. There is no comparison. Ashwin and Jadeja win this by miles.

 

[Ab Fan]

I have talked a lot about longevity and doing it for 10-12 years which is what makes it a fortress.

Having said that, this is just start for Pakistan. They will be few hiccups but one shouldn’t completely write off anyone on one or two bad performance either.

 

[NishanKonar]

For any spinner their real test is after 6-7 months of debut - once their novelty factor wears out & batters know what their tricks are. Thats true test of their capablity

Ajanta Mendis , Monty Panesar , Narendra Hirwani , Laxman Sivaramkrishnan , they all had fantastic start to their careers but after few months they lost their effectiveness once their gameplan became clear. Even Saqlain Mushtaq lost his bite once his doosra became too familiar

On the other hand Warne Murali Lyon Ashwin Jadeja had long careers bcoz they kept innovating & conjuring new tricks

So real test for Sajid & Noman starts now

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Sajid has been useless this series

 

[mominsaigol]

I have talked a lot about longevity and doing it for 10-12 years which is what makes it a fortress.

Having said that, this is just start for Pakistan. They will be few hiccups but one shouldn’t completely write off anyone on one or two bad performance either.

I agree with you now elder bro. Sorry for giving you a hard time.

Sajid and noman have made me realise how difficult a job home dominance truly is and how impactful Jadeja and Ashwin were.

Lets end this debate here. I believe it's settled after that.

 

[Buffet]

Apart from the England series, none

Well, Pak is leading 1-0 and it can be the second series win.

 

[Buffet]

I would have loved to see Pakistan batting last in one test out of two tests in this series.

 

[hur rizvi]

Well, Pak is leading 1-0 and it can be the second series win.

Difficult to win from here

 

[Buffet]

Difficult to win from here

Yes, it's not an easy situation but batting last with inexperienced batting line up can make it hard to get even a modest total.

It's one thing for tail to slog runs in first inning, but if match is close then it's a vastly different situation. Pakistan just played poorly to let tail score so many runs, but SA can't bank on this to happen again. SA have to limit the runs they need to chase and then top order has to score runs. It's never easy of spinning track while batting last.

 

[hur rizvi]

Yes, it's not an easy situation but batting last with inexperienced batting line up can make it hard to get even a modest total.

It's one thing for tail to slog runs in first inning, but if match is close then it's a vastly different situation. Pakistan just played poorly to let tail score so many runs, but SA can't bank on this to happen again. SA have to limit the runs they need to chase and then top order has to score runs. It's never easy of spinning track while batting last.

I agree, but Pakistan need to get at least around 200 lead to make a match of it…

I expect them to collapse in first hour tomorrow leaving around 100 or there about to chase for SA

 

[Hellion]

Got outbowled by Warrican and now by Harmer, Muthu and Maharaj.

Ash and Jadeja never got outbowled by visiting spinners for 11 and a half years.

These guys could barely maintain it for 1 series.

The likes of Chacha would get thrashed on Indian wickets. Just like he got thrashed in Bangladesh.

Pakistani bowlers are crap. Both fast bowlers and spinners get their backsides handed to them by visiting bowlers.

Very poor understanding of the sport by both OP and many posters on this thread.

 

[saimayubera]

Got outbowled by Warrican and now by Harmer, Muthu and Maharaj.

Ash and Jadeja never got outbowled by visiting spinners for 11 and a half years.

These guys could barely maintain it for 1 series.

The likes of Chacha would get thrashed on Indian wickets. Just like he got thrashed in Bangladesh.

Pakistani bowlers are crap. Both fast bowlers and spinners get their backsides handed to them by visiting bowlers.

Very poor understanding of the sport by both OP and many posters on this thread.

Not even 1 series.

They won the England series simply due to changing the pitches while England had brought over a team for the flat tracks on which they whitewashed Pak in 2022.

And England did well in the first test in those conditions.

Pak then completely changed the pitches and the squad (Babar/Shaheen/Naseem out) while England couldn't as it was an away tour and won the two matches.

Imagine if Pak go to England assuming seaming tracks and bring that team composition and then England changes pitches to turning tracks and get spinners and spin playing batsmen in. This is exactly what happened.

Pak spinners would have been outbowled by someone like Tom Hartley and would have been whitewashed in 2024 too if England had known beforehand.

 

[saimayubera]

Got outbowled by Warrican and now by Harmer, Muthu and Maharaj.

Ash and Jadeja never got outbowled by visiting spinners for 11 and a half years.

These guys could barely maintain it for 1 series.

The likes of Chacha would get thrashed on Indian wickets. Just like he got thrashed in Bangladesh.

Pakistani bowlers are crap. Both fast bowlers and spinners get their backsides handed to them by visiting bowlers.

Very poor understanding of the sport by both OP and many posters on this thread.

Ash/Jaddu also outbowled Lyon in 2018 and 2020 as well as Herath in 2015 and 2017. They were great away too.

 

[Hellion]

Not even 1 series.

They won the England series simply due to changing the pitches while England had brought over a team for the flat tracks on which they whitewashed Pak in 2022.

And England did well in the first test in those conditions.

Pak then completely changed the pitches and the squad (Babar/Shaheen/Naseem out) while England couldn't as it was an away tour and won the two matches.

Imagine if Pak go to England assuming seaming tracks and bring that team composition and then England changes pitches to turning tracks and get spinners and spin playing batsmen in. This is exactly what happened.

Pak spinners would have been outbowled by someone like Tom Hartley and would have been whitewashed in 2024 too if England had known beforehand.

To be fair, that is England's fault. And well done to Pakistan for the exposing the Bazballers by taking them out of their comfort zone.

 

[saimayubera]

To be fair, that is England's fault. And well done to Pakistan for the exposing the Bazballers by taking them out of their comfort zone.

Not really. You bring a team for one set of conditions and then you completely change the pitch in the middle of the series.

Imagine Pak goes to England, takes seamers and then England puts dustbowls.

 

[atreus]

To be fair, that is England's fault. And well done to Pakistan for the exposing the Bazballers by taking them out of their comfort zone.

They did the same turner trick in 2022 and lost 3-0 because England still had Anderson and Wood. It's pretty pathetic how Pakistani fans they are exposing anything from a team that has lost only twice at home in the last 12 years, that too in irrelevant two match serieses.

while Pakistan themselves got whitewashed and bodied by Bangladesh at home.

 

[Ijaz Ahmed07]

An emphatic No.

Dont know why we have to put down other successful Asian bowlers.


Ashwin and Jadeja have taken wickets on a variety of Indian pitches over a long period of time, more importantly they have gotten great batsmen out ..From AB DeVilliers to Kane Williamson , from Steve Smith to Kumar Sangakkara .


There is no comparison here

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Jhadeja fans @Bhaag Viru Bhaag and @Devadwal in ruins with this thread. He has greatly benefited from doctored pitches.

 

[Devadwal]

Ther is one country in the world who played a test on used pitch( First ever teat played on used pitch) with help of industrial fan. Guess the name of that country?

Jhadeja fans @Bhaag Viru Bhaag and @Devadwal in ruins with this thread. He has greatly benefited from doctored pitches.

 

[saimayubera]

Jhadeja fans @Bhaag Viru Bhaag and @Devadwal in ruins with this thread. He has greatly benefited from doctored pitches.

No lol.

This thread has proved otherwise.

 

[Katwalindian]

Ash/Jaddu also outbowled Lyon in 2018 and 2020 as well as Herath in 2015 and 2017. They were great away too.

Name one test which is won by Ashwin figures in SENA conditions not named westindies? Overrated.......jadeja is overall good cricketer...............please don't show averages of Ashwin in SENA because he usually took wickets when match is already gone or tailender wickets bit mostly he was on bench....

 

[saimayubera]

Name one test which is won by Ashwin figures in SENA conditions not named westindies? Overrated.......jadeja is overall good cricketer...............please don't show averages of Ashwin in SENA because he usually took wickets when match is already gone or tailender wickets bit mostly he was on bench....

MCG 2020-21
Adelaide 2018

 

[Energy]

Sajid was the worst of the 6 spinners on show in this 2 match series.

 

[Savak]

Sajid was the worst of the 6 spinners on show in this 2 match series.

Absolutely zero innovation or creative thinking in his bowling. Harmer intelligently went around the wicket to the right hander and kept on ruthlessly targetting the stumps with a leg slip, bat pad catcher and constantly targetting the batsman. Babar eventually missed one delivery and got caught plumb lbw, similarly Rizwan got caught bat and pad.

Heck when Rabadda was effortlessly hitting, lofting him for 4's and 6's, not once did Sajid even go over the wicket and try and create a different and a more difficult angle for Rabada to hit. Pakistani bowlers in general and team management have zero creativity and out of the box thinking, very rarely do you even see the bowler intelligently use the crease. Zero Cricketing IQ overall

 

[BouncerGuy]

NO.... WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING NATIONALITIES HERE.

STAY ON TOPIC NOW