Have Sajid Khan and Noman Ali’s performances proved that Ravichandran Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja are nothing special?

[Ab Fan]

Naah again this is a fallacy.

Before matters because it shows Noman's bowling ability on flatter wickets where he failed.

This "rank turners" is a convenient excuse by Pakistani fans to deflect criticism. Rank turners were present between 2021-2023 and the two matches of the NZ series in 2024 and in the SA series in 2015. Outside of that all those pitches were flat.

2016-2019 Jadeja averaged in the low 20s on pitches Kohli and Pujara averaged 60+ and guys like Mayank Agarwal, Dhawan, Vijay made merry.

Post 2024 Eng series also averaging low where Gill and Jaiswal are averaging close to 60.

Indian pitches magically become "rank turners" when discussing stats of Indian spinners and "flat tracks" when discussing stats of Indian batsmen lol.

Rank turners produced by India in last 10 years:-

2015 SA- Mohali and Nagpur
2017 Aus - Pune
2021 Eng - Ahmedabad Pink ball
2023 Aus - Indore
2024 NZ - Pune ( Santner match)

Remove these 6 matches and both Ashwin and Jadeja would still be averaging similar numbers with bowl and 500 and 300 wickets respectively to their name.

 

[saimayubera]

If you can compare Noman to any Indian spinner it should be 19 averaging Axar Patel.

He thrived in the 2021-2023 turning track era but was poor when pitches became flat.

Jadeja has multiple series where he has bowled well on flat tracks. Noman has ZERO.

England in India 2016 - 25.84
Ind in SL 2017 - 28.76
SL in India 2017 - 25.90
Ind in Aus 2018 - 28.57
Ind in Aus 2020/21 - 15
Eng in Ind 2024 - 25.05

 

[saimayubera]

Doing it for 1 year and doing it for 10+ years is a huge difference.

Jadeja is in the league of Botham and Miller because he has done it for 10-12 years and isn’t done yet.

Noman Ali as a spinner has done it for only 1 year so comparisons are laughable and meaningless. He can be compared with Axar Patel although even there Patel is many years younger than Noman.

Noman hasn't even done it for 1 year.

He has done on extreme dustbowls where no one can score a run. Even someone mediocre like Warrican managed to defeat Pakistan.

Noman played in all of the 2022 series vs Eng, Aus and NZ and was very very poor in all three.

Jadeja has done well in lots of series on flat pitches at home where the likes of Rohit, Kohli, Pujara and now Gill and Jaiswal have made merry.

Axar Patel is the correct comparison because he has only done well (with the ball) on turning tracks.

 

[Rajdeep]

Pakistani players always overshadow Indian counterparts in these discussion forums using arbitary metrics. However, when they meet on field, India always comes out as victorious. Wonder why?

#14Sept
#21Sept
#28Sept

 

[Ab Fan]

Noman hasn't even done it for 1 year.

He has done on extreme dustbowls where no one can score a run. Even someone mediocre like Warrican managed to defeat Pakistan.

Noman played in all of the 2022 series vs Eng, Aus and NZ and was very very poor in all three.

Jadeja has done well in lots of series on flat pitches at home where the likes of Rohit, Kohli, Pujara and now Gill and Jaiswal have made merry.

Axar Patel is the correct comparison because he has only done well (with the ball) on turning tracks.

It is laughable comparison simply. It is like comparing Sreesanth to Steyn/Philander just because Sreensanth won a test match in South Africa.

 

[mominsaigol]

Ashwin and Jadeja outbowled every opposition spinner for 10 years, Chacha and Sajid were inferior to Warrican when wi toured.

They are not comparable.

Noman and Sajid weren't inferior to Warrican lol. They outbowled him as well.

WI beat Pakistan yes but that doesn't mean warrican was better.

I agree ashwin and Jadeja are better by miles and miles. But let's not create fake narratives either about warrican lol.

 

[saimayubera]

Pakistani players always overshadow Indian counterparts in these discussion forums using arbitary metrics. However, when they meet on field, India always comes out as victorious. Wonder why?

#14Sept
#21Sept
#28Sept

Because those are cherry picked dumb metrics.

Its like saying Bhuvi has proved Akhtar is nothing special because of similar test bowling averages.

When reality is

1. Bhuvi has a much lower sample size
2. Bhuvi was almost exclusively used in seam bowling conditions especially in Kohli's captaincy

Noman is the same

 

[saimayubera]

Noman and Sajid weren't inferior to Warrican lol. They outbowled him as well.

WI beat Pakistan yes but that doesn't mean warrican was better.

I agree ashwin and Jadeja are better by miles and miles. But let's not create fake narratives either about warrican lol.

No they didn't. Warrican was the best spinner in that series and was the Man of the Series.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Chacha, with his guile would be a handful on those Ind wickets. If Jadeja can turn it, chacha would turn it more. Chacha would struggle on the flatter surfaces but as we saw Jadeja also looks very average on those

With due respect , you are completely wrong about this. To be effective on Indian pitches, you have to turn the ball at high pace. Guile is not as important as pace and overspin and keeping it within the stumps.

Chacha turns it only when he flights it above the eyeline at slow speeds.

Great on certain surfaces but will most likely fail on Indian pitches.

 

[saimayubera]

With due respect , you are completely wrong about this. To be effective on Indian pitches, you have to turn the ball at high pace. Guile is not as important as pace and overspin and keeping it within the stumps.

Chacha turns it only when he flights it above the eyeline at slow speeds.

Great on certain surfaces but will most likely fail on Indian pitches.

He even failed on Pakistani flat pitches as well as Bangladeshi pitches.

 

[harshjoshi87]

There can't be any comparison. Ashwin & Jadeja won every home series for India from 2013-2024 except the NZ series last year. Ashwin & Jadeja also contributed with both bat & ball in India's victories in Australia in 2018 & 2021. Besides they were part of innumerable victories in white ball cricket too. So this comparison is laughable to say the least.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Doing it for 1 year and doing it for 10+ years is a huge difference.

Jadeja is in the league of Botham and Miller because he has done it for 10-12 years and isn’t done yet.

Noman Ali as a spinner has done it for only 1 year so comparisons are laughable and meaningless. He can be compared with Axar Patel although even there Patel is many years younger than Noman.

Yes I agree.

The comparison is not valid.

It is purely hypothetical for Nomi. Although I do think he is a wonderful test match spinner and hypothetically up there with Ashwin and Jadeja interns of skill and guile.

Sajid is much far behind on ability.

 

[imshally81]

Sample size is too small for Nouman & Sajid... Need 5 more years

 

[BouncerGuy]

Ash retired at 38 but Nomi is bowling 60-70 overs at 39...

 

[Hellion]

Ash retired at 38 but Nomi is bowling 60-70 overs at 39...

Wow. Such incredible fitness.

 

[gazza619]

Ash retired at 38 but Nomi is bowling 60-70 overs at 39...

Nomi’s real age is probably 43-44 which makes it even more impressive

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes I agree.

The comparison is not valid.

It is purely hypothetical for Nomi. Although I do think he is a wonderful test match spinner and hypothetically up there with Ashwin and Jadeja interns of skill and guile.

Sajid is much far behind on ability.

Is he really up there with Ashwin in terms of skills?

 

[Katwalindian]

He only played in Aus series on the flattest pitches on planet earth where Lyon didnt take a single wicket to save his life....he still took 6 wickets in an innings.....I dint think even jadeja would have done anything on those patta wickets......

Noman hasn't even done it for 1 year.

He has done on extreme dustbowls where no one can score a run. Even someone mediocre like Warrican managed to defeat Pakistan.

Noman played in all of the 2022 series vs Eng, Aus and NZ and was very very poor in all three.

Jadeja has done well in lots of series on flat pitches at home where the likes of Rohit, Kohli, Pujara and now Gill and Jaiswal have made merry.

Axar Patel is the correct comparison because he has only done well (with the ball) on turning tracks.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Is he really up there with Ashwin in terms of skills?

I think you can make a case for him. He is a very wily spinner. How his career would have panned out we don't know.

Sajid is a lesser bowler. He is more condition dependent.

 

[Bewal Express]

With due respect , you are completely wrong about this. To be effective on Indian pitches, you have to turn the ball at high pace. Guile is not as important as pace and overspin and keeping it within the stumps.

Chacha turns it only when he flights it above the eyeline at slow speeds.

Great on certain surfaces but will most likely fail on Indian pitches.

I agree speed matters, however I think he can speed up if needed. Chacha has bowling intelligence that we often dont see from PK spinners

 

[mazkhan]

Chacha is a gun player

 

[hur rizvi]

I liked SA pitch. It wasn’t a rank turner to be honest. It was a spin-supporting wicket with increasing difficulty as match progressed.

WI pitches were bad with no chance for batters. The fact that we saw a century and multiple fifties from both teams it was pretty bat-able

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

I liked SA pitch. It wasn’t a rank turner to be honest. It was a spin-supporting wicket with increasing difficulty as match progressed.

WI pitches were bad with no chance for batters. The fact that we saw a century and multiple fifties from both teams it was pretty bat-able

Don't you want a proper turner have three spinners and go for the kill finish south africa.