Have Sajid Khan & Noman Ali’s performance proved that Ravichandran Ashwin & Ravindra Jadeja are nothing special?

[mominsaigol]

Ashwin away avg is also 29, same as Anderson. Comparing SENA stats for a spinner tells us about your understanding of the game more than anything else.

Ashwin outsmarted Sangakkara and outperformed Herath in their backyard in SL.

Ashwin has absolutely dominated Windies with both bat and ball.

He has 11 player of series award. You are just nitpicking by filtering stat as per preference.

I wish a non Indian player comes who pick 530 test wickets at avg of 23 and scores 3400 runs at avg of 26 with 6 tons and you argue against him claiming he is a rubbish cricketer but you probably won’t because of your undefendable double standards against Indian cricketers.

Ashwin avg 42 ans 49 in aus and sa. Is a run machine their, has no 5 wicket hauls in SENA. Bcci doesn't even trust this flith to play in AUS or SA half the time.

^^ Fix this nonsense and address this. Don't give me but but but avg 29 this or series this and that.

^^ Answer this plain and simple. No narratives, No comparis0n with others, Focus on ashwin only and explain this rubbish

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin avg 42 ans 49 in aus and sa. Is a run machine their, has no 5 wicket hauls in SENA. Bcci doesn't even trust this flith to play in AUS or SA half the time.

^^ Fix this nonsense and address this. Don't give me but but but avg 29 this or series this and that.

^^ Answer this plain and simple. No narratives, No comparis0n with others, Focus on ashwin only and explain this rubbish

It is an illogical argument. A spinner is judged based on his performance in conditions where he has main role to play and not supporting role. Ashwin bowled a lot of overs in SENA because he was given responsibility of lead bowler and he did played a major role in winning Australia two test series win. Your argument is laughable, Cummins and Rabada both have been poor in India too. You can only do well if the conditions offer something in it for you to exploit. Also, the strength of opposition in current era in Asia except India is much weaker than strength of opposition in SENA.

Your double standards are exposed clearly when you said you are willing to rate Anderson and Rabada but not Ashwin. That’s an illogical argument given both are destructive in favourable conditions but have similar record as Ashwin away from home and are obviously inferior batters.

 

[mominsaigol]

It is an illogical argument. A spinner is judged based on his performance in conditions where he has main role to play and not supporting role. Ashwin bowled a lot of overs in SENA because he was given responsibility of lead bowler and he did played a major role in winning Australia two test series win. Your argument is laughable, Cummins and Rabada both have been poor in India too. You can only do well if the conditions offer something in it for you to exploit.

Your double standards are exposed clearly when you said you are willing to rate Anderson and Rabada but not Ashwin. That’s an illogical argument given both are destructive in favourable conditions but have similar record as Ashwin away from home and are obviously inferior batters.

All I hear is bitter banter and excuses.

Address what I wrote earlier.

I told you no narratives.

Ashwin: Avg 49 and 42 in aus, and sa, No 5 wicket hauls in SENA, Gets dropped half the time to avoid said conditons.

^^ Explain

 

[mominsaigol]

It is an illogical argument. A spinner is judged based on his performance in conditions where he has main role to play and not supporting role. Ashwin bowled a lot of overs in SENA because he was given responsibility of lead bowler and he did played a major role in winning Australia two test series win. Your argument is laughable, Cummins and Rabada both have been poor in India too. You can only do well if the conditions offer something in it for you to exploit. Also, the strength of opposition in current era in Asia except India is much weaker than strength of opposition in SENA.

Your double standards are exposed clearly when you said you are willing to rate Anderson and Rabada but not Ashwin. That’s an illogical argument given both are destructive in favourable conditions but have similar record as Ashwin away from home and are obviously inferior batters.

Does Anderson lack 5 wicket hauls and avg 42 and 49 in any country?

 

[Ab Fan]

@mominsaigol , you probably rate Jadeja higher than Ashwin as bowler purely due to his sub 20 average in Aus and SA lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol , you probably rate Jadeja higher than Ashwin as bowler purely due to his sub 20 average in Aus and SA lol.

All I hear is bitter banter and excuses.

Address what I wrote earlier.

I told you no narratives.

Ashwin: Avg 49 and 42 in aus, and sa, No 5 wicket hauls in SENA, Gets dropped half the time to avoid said conditons.

^^ Explain

Does Anderson lack 5 wicket hauls and avg 42 and 49 in any country?

^^ This is premise mate. No bitter banter. No narratives, no other player this or other player that.

Ashwin ashwin Ashwin ^^

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol , you probably rate Jadeja higher than Ashwin as bowler purely due to his sub 20 average in Aus and SA lol.

Jadeja avg 43 and 60 in England and New Zealand

 

[mominsaigol]

@Ab Fan wanna know what jadeja has that ashwin doesn't?

A 25 avg and 5 wicket haul on south africa

 

[mominsaigol]

Jadeja avg 43 and 60 in England and New Zealand

Btw I hope you don't bitter banter on this.

You brought jadeja, I didn't.

England is the only stain on his career bowling wise. He's barely played in NZ so obviously it doesn't count.

What does count is Ashwin's rubbish

 

[Ab Fan]

Does Anderson lack 5 wicket hauls and avg 42 and 49 in any country?

Anderson has poor record in three major countries - Aus, Ind, SA. What is this 5-fer nonsense now? Ashwin has multiple 4-fers so just because someone came and picked a tailender wicket and completed its 5-fer, you are saying you are willing to rate that player but not the guy who picked key top order wickets?

Rabada averages 40+ in India and Pakistan and you are not even making sense comparing Ashwin’s record in SA where all India got are absolutely overcast conditions and a pace bowling shootout. If you are not willing to take conditions into consideration, there is no point of argument at all. You are just being a statsguru PR merchant and not following game enough to understand how it works. Keep on crying about his stat, it would mean zilch.

 

[mominsaigol]

Anderson has poor record in three major countries - Aus, Ind, SA. What is this 5-fer nonsense now? Ashwin has multiple 4-fers so just because someone came and picked a tailender wicket and completed its 5-fer, you are saying you are willing to rate that player but not the guy who picked key top order wickets?

Rabada averages 40+ in India and Pakistan and you are not even making sense comparing Ashwin’s record in SA where all India got are absolutely overcast conditions and a pace bowling shootout. If you are not willing to take conditions into consideration, there is no point of argument at all. You are just being a statsguru PR merchant and not following game enough to understand how it works. Keep on crying about his stat, it would mean zilch.

Ashwin avg 42 and 49 in sa and aus, no 5 wicket hauls in SENA and bcci doesn't even trust him to go overseas.

Also idkw you're constantly brining other players when Anderson, Rabada or anyone else have nothing to do with thread.

Keep it to ashwin.

Like I said, Explain this rubbish. No narratives or this player did this or that from you.

Explain this for Ashwin

 

[Ab Fan]

@Ab Fan wanna know what jadeja has that ashwin doesn't?

A 25 avg and 5 wicket haul on south africa

Btw I hope you don't bitter banter on this.

You brought jadeja, I didn't.

England is the only stain on his career bowling wise. He's barely played in NZ so obviously it doesn't count.

What does count is Ashwin's rubbish

Not sure why you are not trying to understand. Country wise stats are not the single topmost measure of rating player because some players may get different conditions than others. A bowler will only do well if you give him the conditions to make an impact. For example, Cummins did zilch and would do zilch if he gets the type of conditions Australia got in India last tour. Southee and O’Rourke got overcast conditions in first test and they made the most of it. They have better numbers than Cummins or Rabada in India. That doesn’t make them a better bowler. Context needs to be understood.

Same goes for Jadeja, he got the right conditions and took a 5-fer. Ashwin is far more skillful than him and he doesn’t have one. But he does have match winning performance and hence deserves to be rated for that reason.

If you can’t, it is your problem. Go and play your game on statsguru rather than pretending to have a logical discussion over here.

 

[mominsaigol]

Not sure why you are not trying to understand. Country wise stats are not the single topmost measure of rating player because some players may get different conditions than others. A bowler will only do well if you give him the conditions to make an impact. For example, Cummins did zilch and would do zilch if he gets the type of conditions Australia got in India last tour. Southee and O’Rourke got overcast conditions in first test and they made the most of it. They have better numbers than Cummins or Rabada in India. That doesn’t make them a better bowler. Context needs to be understood.

Same goes for Jadeja, he got the right conditions and took a 5-fer. Ashwin is far more skillful than him and he doesn’t have one. But he does have match winning performance and hence deserves to be rated for that reason.

If you can’t, it is your problem. Go and play your game on statsguru rather than pretending to have a logical discussion over here.

Again another word essay that I won't bother reading.

Aus and SA, no 5 wicket hauls in SENA. Lack of trust on overseas tours from bcci.

^^ Answer this and no more abuse or aggression from you. Answer this. And no more bringing other players into this

 

[Ab Fan]

Again another word essay that I won't bother reading.

Aus and SA, no 5 wicket hauls in SENA. Lack of trust on overseas tours from bcci.

^^ Answer this and no more abuse or aggression from you. Answer this. And no more bringing other players into this

Mate, I have provided answers and explanations to all your arguments which have been actually crushed quite conveniently. I am not showing any aggression, you are just not willing to have a logical discussion so I can’t help make a case anymore. You can continue to rate him the way you like but you can’t stop me doing it the right way too.

 

[mominsaigol]

Mate, I have provided answers and explanations to all your arguments which have been actually crushed quite conveniently. I am not showing any aggression, you are just not willing to have a logical discussion so I can’t help make a case anymore. You can continue to rate him the way you like but you can’t stop me doing it the right way too.

I asked you a question that wasn't answered.

Answer it. All you have done is deflect to other players.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I hope you guys can read the topic of the thread. Is it about DHONI OR FINISHERS???


Stay on topic here.

 

[Ab Fan]

I asked you a question that wasn't answered.

Answer it. All you have done is deflect to other players.

You have shown enough evidence to prove that you are not competent enough to have a logical discussion and understand that the game is not played on paper but on field. You are concluding purely based on statistics which is funny and that validates my point only.

 

[KP From India]

Amla has standout performances in test series wins and draw in India, England and Australia and they all were very good sides. This alone puts him above Root who has 0 test tons in Australia and 0 test series wins/ draws in India and Australia.

2003 WC Final is a different ball game. India lost that game as soon as Australia posted 359 runs in 50 overs. It was a total that was unheard before and in a WC Final, it is as good as impossible to chase. One match don’t define a player. Tendulkar won India three World Cup matches vs Pakistan while Wasim and Waqar together couldn’t won one World Cup match vs India. In contrast, Shaheen has won one ICC World tournament match vs India. This doesn’t define anything.

Here we take a look at points you are arguing on,

Most runs in a calendar year is a terrible way to rate players. Everyone knows England plays test cricket most so obviously that title will go to an England player or basically whoever plays more tests.

Back when Tendulkar played, India didn’t played a lot of test matches in one series. It was mostly 3 test match series or sometimes 2 test series also. Only in Australia, we had 4 test series and that too from 2000 onwards. Tendulkar not hitting 500+ runs further emphasises the fact that his stats are not skewed based on one series but he has done well consistently across tours and across countries and still ends with average of 53.78.

200s and 300s are individual records and that only tells us how a certain player has cashed on heavily when offered roads. SRT scored in tough conditions and tough attacks rather than cashing on 5-6 double tons at home or against minnows.

All in all what you are mentioning are just statistical/ personal achievements and nothing else.

Your last point is incorrect. India’s two biggest wins of 2000s overseas were Adelaide 2003 and Perth 2007. Perth was massive in the context and Tendulkar contributed very well in that test match. VVS was pivotal in most of India’s tough wins though, that’s an undeniable fact.

Lol!...Guy is blaming a batsman for not chasing 360 that too in a final....Even Aussie ATG batting line-up is not chasing that against Srinath,Zaheer, Bhajji etc...In 360 chase the fight is against no of huge runs as well as RRR.

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol!...Guy is blaming a batsman for not chasing 360 that too in a final....Even Aussie ATG batting line-up is not chasing that against Srinath,Zaheer, Bhajji etc...In 360 chase the fight is against no of huge runs as well as RRR.

He is struggling to keep up with his new version and defending his points through comical arguments which is fun to watch.

 

[Mamoon]

Lol!...Guy is blaming a batsman for not chasing 360 that too in a final....Even Aussie ATG batting line-up is not chasing that against Srinath,Zaheer, Bhajji etc...In 360 chase the fight is against no of huge runs as well as RRR.

What stopped Tendulkar from playing the innings that Sehwag did?

 

[KP From India]

He is struggling to keep up with his new version and defending his points through comical arguments which is fun to watch.

No team has ever chased 300+ in ICICI event final/Semi final.
Give the same total 360 to the same Indian bowling Khan, Srinath, Bhajji etc and they get the job done.
Assume Aussies 100/1 in 15 overs in their usual style and a couple of wickets by Bhajji or some other spinner scoreboard reads 130/3 in 20 overs.
New batsman Bevan/Symonds however good they are, still take 3-4 overs to get used to the conditions, so around 145 in 25 overs.
This leaves 215 runs in 25 overs @ 8.5 RPO not happening even with Bevan and Symonds, one mistake/run out and virtually everything is over. Bevan is good when RR is 5-5.5 with some help of lower order. No batting line-up is getting 9 runs per over during 25 to 40 overs phase.

 

[Mamoon]

No team has ever chased 300+ in ICICI event final/Semi final.
Give the same total 360 to the same Indian bowling Khan, Srinath, Bhajji etc and they get the job done.
Assume Aussies 100/1 in 15 overs in their usual style and a couple of wickets by Bhajji or some other spinner scoreboard reads 130/3 in 20 overs.
New batsman Bevan/Symonds however good they are, still take 3-4 overs to get used to the conditions, so around 145 in 25 overs.
This leaves 215 runs in 25 overs @ 8.5 RPO not happening even with Bevan and Symonds, one mistake/run out and virtually everything is over. Bevan is good when RR is 5-5.5 with some help of lower order. No batting line-up is getting 9 runs per over during 25 to 40 overs phase.

No one is saying that India showed have chased it down. The question remains: what stopped Tendulkar from playing the innings that Sehwag did?

 

[mominsaigol]

You have shown enough evidence to prove that you are not competent enough to have a logical discussion and understand that the game is not played on paper but on field. You are concluding purely based on statistics which is funny and that validates my point only.

And you have shown enough evidence to prove that you are incompetent when answering a simple question

 

[Mamoon]

I just love how Tendulkar fanatics are unable to answer very simple questions without deflecting.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I just love how Tendulkar fanatics are unable to answer very simple questions without deflecting.

Welcome to the Tendulkar twilight zone.

If you can withstand and navigate the constant changing of the goal posts, the random switches between formats, the way they apply different metrics to different players and the randomness of the argument then @Hitman appears with a hand written letter from Don Bradman to take you back to the start again.

 

[ethan hunt]

The indian spinners have conned the world. No wonder they were dropped from the white ball team.

Even Aijaz patel and Glenn phillips have bowled like Murali and Warne here

 

[Mamoon]

One step ahead as always.

 

[Mobashir]

One step ahead as always.

Hahaha what happened to you ?
That means you were a fan of my thinking in secret.
Still happy that you have Come back to reason.

Here even Philipps will average in the low 20's.

 

[G0rmintAunty]

If you can withstand and navigate the constant changing of the goal posts, the random switches between formats, the way they apply different metrics to different players and the randomness of the argument

Are you talking about Indian fans or Mamoon

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Are you talking about Indian fans or Mamoon

Past comments are in the past. He is entitled to his past opinions and we are entitled to agree/disagree.

But for now we should all be allied to confront the Indian menace plaguing our great game.

He has the capability to eloquently shatter many of the Indian myths. It is important this is done now to protect them from being embedded into the narrative of the game and future generations think of them as facts.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Ajaz Patel out bowled Jadeja in the last game. Jadeja picked up 10, while Ajaz picked up 11 wickets. Lol