Have Sajid Khan & Noman Ali’s performance proved that Ravichandran Ashwin & Ravindra Jadeja are nothing special?

[mominsaigol]

Ashwin away avg is also 29, same as Anderson. Comparing SENA stats for a spinner tells us about your understanding of the game more than anything else.

Ashwin outsmarted Sangakkara and outperformed Herath in their backyard in SL.

Ashwin has absolutely dominated Windies with both bat and ball.

He has 11 player of series award. You are just nitpicking by filtering stat as per preference.

I wish a non Indian player comes who pick 530 test wickets at avg of 23 and scores 3400 runs at avg of 26 with 6 tons and you argue against him claiming he is a rubbish cricketer but you probably won’t because of your undefendable double standards against Indian cricketers.

Ashwin avg 42 ans 49 in aus and sa. Is a run machine their, has no 5 wicket hauls in SENA. Bcci doesn't even trust this flith to play in AUS or SA half the time.

^^ Fix this nonsense and address this. Don't give me but but but avg 29 this or series this and that.

^^ Answer this plain and simple. No narratives, No comparis0n with others, Focus on ashwin only and explain this rubbish

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin avg 42 ans 49 in aus and sa. Is a run machine their, has no 5 wicket hauls in SENA. Bcci doesn't even trust this flith to play in AUS or SA half the time.

^^ Fix this nonsense and address this. Don't give me but but but avg 29 this or series this and that.

^^ Answer this plain and simple. No narratives, No comparis0n with others, Focus on ashwin only and explain this rubbish

It is an illogical argument. A spinner is judged based on his performance in conditions where he has main role to play and not supporting role. Ashwin bowled a lot of overs in SENA because he was given responsibility of lead bowler and he did played a major role in winning Australia two test series win. Your argument is laughable, Cummins and Rabada both have been poor in India too. You can only do well if the conditions offer something in it for you to exploit. Also, the strength of opposition in current era in Asia except India is much weaker than strength of opposition in SENA.

Your double standards are exposed clearly when you said you are willing to rate Anderson and Rabada but not Ashwin. That’s an illogical argument given both are destructive in favourable conditions but have similar record as Ashwin away from home and are obviously inferior batters.

 

[mominsaigol]

It is an illogical argument. A spinner is judged based on his performance in conditions where he has main role to play and not supporting role. Ashwin bowled a lot of overs in SENA because he was given responsibility of lead bowler and he did played a major role in winning Australia two test series win. Your argument is laughable, Cummins and Rabada both have been poor in India too. You can only do well if the conditions offer something in it for you to exploit.

Your double standards are exposed clearly when you said you are willing to rate Anderson and Rabada but not Ashwin. That’s an illogical argument given both are destructive in favourable conditions but have similar record as Ashwin away from home and are obviously inferior batters.

All I hear is bitter banter and excuses.

Address what I wrote earlier.

I told you no narratives.

Ashwin: Avg 49 and 42 in aus, and sa, No 5 wicket hauls in SENA, Gets dropped half the time to avoid said conditons.

^^ Explain

 

[mominsaigol]

It is an illogical argument. A spinner is judged based on his performance in conditions where he has main role to play and not supporting role. Ashwin bowled a lot of overs in SENA because he was given responsibility of lead bowler and he did played a major role in winning Australia two test series win. Your argument is laughable, Cummins and Rabada both have been poor in India too. You can only do well if the conditions offer something in it for you to exploit. Also, the strength of opposition in current era in Asia except India is much weaker than strength of opposition in SENA.

Your double standards are exposed clearly when you said you are willing to rate Anderson and Rabada but not Ashwin. That’s an illogical argument given both are destructive in favourable conditions but have similar record as Ashwin away from home and are obviously inferior batters.

Does Anderson lack 5 wicket hauls and avg 42 and 49 in any country?

 

[Ab Fan]

@mominsaigol , you probably rate Jadeja higher than Ashwin as bowler purely due to his sub 20 average in Aus and SA lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol , you probably rate Jadeja higher than Ashwin as bowler purely due to his sub 20 average in Aus and SA lol.

All I hear is bitter banter and excuses.

Address what I wrote earlier.

I told you no narratives.

Ashwin: Avg 49 and 42 in aus, and sa, No 5 wicket hauls in SENA, Gets dropped half the time to avoid said conditons.

^^ Explain

Does Anderson lack 5 wicket hauls and avg 42 and 49 in any country?

^^ This is premise mate. No bitter banter. No narratives, no other player this or other player that.

Ashwin ashwin Ashwin ^^

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol , you probably rate Jadeja higher than Ashwin as bowler purely due to his sub 20 average in Aus and SA lol.

Jadeja avg 43 and 60 in England and New Zealand

 

[mominsaigol]

@Ab Fan wanna know what jadeja has that ashwin doesn't?

A 25 avg and 5 wicket haul on south africa

 

[mominsaigol]

Jadeja avg 43 and 60 in England and New Zealand

Btw I hope you don't bitter banter on this.

You brought jadeja, I didn't.

England is the only stain on his career bowling wise. He's barely played in NZ so obviously it doesn't count.

What does count is Ashwin's rubbish

 

[Ab Fan]

Does Anderson lack 5 wicket hauls and avg 42 and 49 in any country?

Anderson has poor record in three major countries - Aus, Ind, SA. What is this 5-fer nonsense now? Ashwin has multiple 4-fers so just because someone came and picked a tailender wicket and completed its 5-fer, you are saying you are willing to rate that player but not the guy who picked key top order wickets?

Rabada averages 40+ in India and Pakistan and you are not even making sense comparing Ashwin’s record in SA where all India got are absolutely overcast conditions and a pace bowling shootout. If you are not willing to take conditions into consideration, there is no point of argument at all. You are just being a statsguru PR merchant and not following game enough to understand how it works. Keep on crying about his stat, it would mean zilch.

 

[mominsaigol]

Anderson has poor record in three major countries - Aus, Ind, SA. What is this 5-fer nonsense now? Ashwin has multiple 4-fers so just because someone came and picked a tailender wicket and completed its 5-fer, you are saying you are willing to rate that player but not the guy who picked key top order wickets?

Rabada averages 40+ in India and Pakistan and you are not even making sense comparing Ashwin’s record in SA where all India got are absolutely overcast conditions and a pace bowling shootout. If you are not willing to take conditions into consideration, there is no point of argument at all. You are just being a statsguru PR merchant and not following game enough to understand how it works. Keep on crying about his stat, it would mean zilch.

Ashwin avg 42 and 49 in sa and aus, no 5 wicket hauls in SENA and bcci doesn't even trust him to go overseas.

Also idkw you're constantly brining other players when Anderson, Rabada or anyone else have nothing to do with thread.

Keep it to ashwin.

Like I said, Explain this rubbish. No narratives or this player did this or that from you.

Explain this for Ashwin

 

[Ab Fan]

@Ab Fan wanna know what jadeja has that ashwin doesn't?

A 25 avg and 5 wicket haul on south africa

Btw I hope you don't bitter banter on this.

You brought jadeja, I didn't.

England is the only stain on his career bowling wise. He's barely played in NZ so obviously it doesn't count.

What does count is Ashwin's rubbish

Not sure why you are not trying to understand. Country wise stats are not the single topmost measure of rating player because some players may get different conditions than others. A bowler will only do well if you give him the conditions to make an impact. For example, Cummins did zilch and would do zilch if he gets the type of conditions Australia got in India last tour. Southee and O’Rourke got overcast conditions in first test and they made the most of it. They have better numbers than Cummins or Rabada in India. That doesn’t make them a better bowler. Context needs to be understood.

Same goes for Jadeja, he got the right conditions and took a 5-fer. Ashwin is far more skillful than him and he doesn’t have one. But he does have match winning performance and hence deserves to be rated for that reason.

If you can’t, it is your problem. Go and play your game on statsguru rather than pretending to have a logical discussion over here.

 

[mominsaigol]

Not sure why you are not trying to understand. Country wise stats are not the single topmost measure of rating player because some players may get different conditions than others. A bowler will only do well if you give him the conditions to make an impact. For example, Cummins did zilch and would do zilch if he gets the type of conditions Australia got in India last tour. Southee and O’Rourke got overcast conditions in first test and they made the most of it. They have better numbers than Cummins or Rabada in India. That doesn’t make them a better bowler. Context needs to be understood.

Same goes for Jadeja, he got the right conditions and took a 5-fer. Ashwin is far more skillful than him and he doesn’t have one. But he does have match winning performance and hence deserves to be rated for that reason.

If you can’t, it is your problem. Go and play your game on statsguru rather than pretending to have a logical discussion over here.

Again another word essay that I won't bother reading.

Aus and SA, no 5 wicket hauls in SENA. Lack of trust on overseas tours from bcci.

^^ Answer this and no more abuse or aggression from you. Answer this. And no more bringing other players into this

 

[Ab Fan]

Again another word essay that I won't bother reading.

Aus and SA, no 5 wicket hauls in SENA. Lack of trust on overseas tours from bcci.

^^ Answer this and no more abuse or aggression from you. Answer this. And no more bringing other players into this

Mate, I have provided answers and explanations to all your arguments which have been actually crushed quite conveniently. I am not showing any aggression, you are just not willing to have a logical discussion so I can’t help make a case anymore. You can continue to rate him the way you like but you can’t stop me doing it the right way too.

 

[mominsaigol]

Mate, I have provided answers and explanations to all your arguments which have been actually crushed quite conveniently. I am not showing any aggression, you are just not willing to have a logical discussion so I can’t help make a case anymore. You can continue to rate him the way you like but you can’t stop me doing it the right way too.

I asked you a question that wasn't answered.

Answer it. All you have done is deflect to other players.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I hope you guys can read the topic of the thread. Is it about DHONI OR FINISHERS???


Stay on topic here.

 

[Ab Fan]

I asked you a question that wasn't answered.

Answer it. All you have done is deflect to other players.

You have shown enough evidence to prove that you are not competent enough to have a logical discussion and understand that the game is not played on paper but on field. You are concluding purely based on statistics which is funny and that validates my point only.

 

[KP From India]

Amla has standout performances in test series wins and draw in India, England and Australia and they all were very good sides. This alone puts him above Root who has 0 test tons in Australia and 0 test series wins/ draws in India and Australia.

2003 WC Final is a different ball game. India lost that game as soon as Australia posted 359 runs in 50 overs. It was a total that was unheard before and in a WC Final, it is as good as impossible to chase. One match don’t define a player. Tendulkar won India three World Cup matches vs Pakistan while Wasim and Waqar together couldn’t won one World Cup match vs India. In contrast, Shaheen has won one ICC World tournament match vs India. This doesn’t define anything.

Here we take a look at points you are arguing on,

Most runs in a calendar year is a terrible way to rate players. Everyone knows England plays test cricket most so obviously that title will go to an England player or basically whoever plays more tests.

Back when Tendulkar played, India didn’t played a lot of test matches in one series. It was mostly 3 test match series or sometimes 2 test series also. Only in Australia, we had 4 test series and that too from 2000 onwards. Tendulkar not hitting 500+ runs further emphasises the fact that his stats are not skewed based on one series but he has done well consistently across tours and across countries and still ends with average of 53.78.

200s and 300s are individual records and that only tells us how a certain player has cashed on heavily when offered roads. SRT scored in tough conditions and tough attacks rather than cashing on 5-6 double tons at home or against minnows.

All in all what you are mentioning are just statistical/ personal achievements and nothing else.

Your last point is incorrect. India’s two biggest wins of 2000s overseas were Adelaide 2003 and Perth 2007. Perth was massive in the context and Tendulkar contributed very well in that test match. VVS was pivotal in most of India’s tough wins though, that’s an undeniable fact.

Lol!...Guy is blaming a batsman for not chasing 360 that too in a final....Even Aussie ATG batting line-up is not chasing that against Srinath,Zaheer, Bhajji etc...In 360 chase the fight is against no of huge runs as well as RRR.

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol!...Guy is blaming a batsman for not chasing 360 that too in a final....Even Aussie ATG batting line-up is not chasing that against Srinath,Zaheer, Bhajji etc...In 360 chase the fight is against no of huge runs as well as RRR.

He is struggling to keep up with his new version and defending his points through comical arguments which is fun to watch.

 

[Mamoon]

Lol!...Guy is blaming a batsman for not chasing 360 that too in a final....Even Aussie ATG batting line-up is not chasing that against Srinath,Zaheer, Bhajji etc...In 360 chase the fight is against no of huge runs as well as RRR.

What stopped Tendulkar from playing the innings that Sehwag did?

 

[KP From India]

He is struggling to keep up with his new version and defending his points through comical arguments which is fun to watch.

No team has ever chased 300+ in ICICI event final/Semi final.
Give the same total 360 to the same Indian bowling Khan, Srinath, Bhajji etc and they get the job done.
Assume Aussies 100/1 in 15 overs in their usual style and a couple of wickets by Bhajji or some other spinner scoreboard reads 130/3 in 20 overs.
New batsman Bevan/Symonds however good they are, still take 3-4 overs to get used to the conditions, so around 145 in 25 overs.
This leaves 215 runs in 25 overs @ 8.5 RPO not happening even with Bevan and Symonds, one mistake/run out and virtually everything is over. Bevan is good when RR is 5-5.5 with some help of lower order. No batting line-up is getting 9 runs per over during 25 to 40 overs phase.

 

[Mamoon]

No team has ever chased 300+ in ICICI event final/Semi final.
Give the same total 360 to the same Indian bowling Khan, Srinath, Bhajji etc and they get the job done.
Assume Aussies 100/1 in 15 overs in their usual style and a couple of wickets by Bhajji or some other spinner scoreboard reads 130/3 in 20 overs.
New batsman Bevan/Symonds however good they are, still take 3-4 overs to get used to the conditions, so around 145 in 25 overs.
This leaves 215 runs in 25 overs @ 8.5 RPO not happening even with Bevan and Symonds, one mistake/run out and virtually everything is over. Bevan is good when RR is 5-5.5 with some help of lower order. No batting line-up is getting 9 runs per over during 25 to 40 overs phase.

No one is saying that India showed have chased it down. The question remains: what stopped Tendulkar from playing the innings that Sehwag did?

 

[mominsaigol]

You have shown enough evidence to prove that you are not competent enough to have a logical discussion and understand that the game is not played on paper but on field. You are concluding purely based on statistics which is funny and that validates my point only.

And you have shown enough evidence to prove that you are incompetent when answering a simple question

 

[Mamoon]

I just love how Tendulkar fanatics are unable to answer very simple questions without deflecting.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I just love how Tendulkar fanatics are unable to answer very simple questions without deflecting.

Welcome to the Tendulkar twilight zone.

If you can withstand and navigate the constant changing of the goal posts, the random switches between formats, the way they apply different metrics to different players and the randomness of the argument then @Hitman appears with a hand written letter from Don Bradman to take you back to the start again.

 

[ethan hunt]

The indian spinners have conned the world. No wonder they were dropped from the white ball team.

Even Aijaz patel and Glenn phillips have bowled like Murali and Warne here

 

[Mamoon]

One step ahead as always.

 

[Mobashir]

One step ahead as always.

Hahaha what happened to you ?
That means you were a fan of my thinking in secret.
Still happy that you have Come back to reason.

Here even Philipps will average in the low 20's.

 

[G0rmintAunty]

If you can withstand and navigate the constant changing of the goal posts, the random switches between formats, the way they apply different metrics to different players and the randomness of the argument

Are you talking about Indian fans or Mamoon

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Are you talking about Indian fans or Mamoon

Past comments are in the past. He is entitled to his past opinions and we are entitled to agree/disagree.

But for now we should all be allied to confront the Indian menace plaguing our great game.

He has the capability to eloquently shatter many of the Indian myths. It is important this is done now to protect them from being embedded into the narrative of the game and future generations think of them as facts.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Ajaz Patel out bowled Jadeja in the last game. Jadeja picked up 10, while Ajaz picked up 11 wickets. Lol

 

[BouncerGuy]

Noman joins the party along with Sajid's 4 wickets and he gets his first... This duo is creating mess for opposition batters

 

[BouncerGuy]

Unplayable this combo Noman and Sajid is. Windies are 8 wicket down and all of them are taken by nomi and Sajid... Brilliantly using the pitch to their favor...

 

[Mamoon]

They continue to prove that Ashwin-Jadeja combo was the biggest scam running in Test cricket for 10+ years.

These two are by no means inferior in any capacity and you can add a lot of other spinners to this list too including some Indian spinners who have been neglected because of those two.

Shame on PCB for not producing such wickets since Test cricket resumed in Pakistan in 2019. Pakistan should have played every home Test in such conditions and they would be firmly established as a top 3 Test team by now with the likes of Nauman and Sajid finishing their careers with 300+ wickets each.

 

[Farabi]

They continue to prove that Ashwin-Jadeja combo was the biggest scam running in Test cricket for 10+ years.

These two are by no means inferior in any capacity and you can add a lot of other spinners to this list too including some Indian spinners who have been neglected because of those two.

Shame on PCB for not producing such wickets since Test cricket resumed in Pakistan in 2019. Pakistan should have played every home Test in such conditions and they would be firmly established as a top 3 Test team by now with the likes of Nauman and Sajid finishing their careers with 300+ wickets each.

Yet, a bunch of "genius" posters on PP are questioning this strategy. They're arguing that we should treat our guests nicely. According to them, it doesn’t matter how they treat us when we tour their countries.

 

[Mamoon]

Yet, a bunch of "genius" posters on PP are questioning this strategy. They're arguing that we should treat our guests nicely. According to them, it doesn’t matter how they treat us when we tour their countries.

Pakistan producing a seaming pitch vs South Africa in Pindi in 2021 and tbh they got away with it because Shaheen and Hassan Ali were in prime form.

Then came Australia and Ramiz insisted on highways which was a cowardly approach to neutralize their pace attack which backfired.

The 2022 Bazball humiliation was ridiculous too.

Teams like Australia, England and others have virtually no chance of winning in Pakistan on turning tracks. The only team that can is India and they obviously don’t want to play.

It is insane how much self-destruction Pakistan have caused in Test cricket in the last few years, but I guess better late than never.

 

[Rajdeep]

Pakistan is over doing the spin stuff. Just 1 over from seamer? LOL

It is only ensuring they will never win any test in SENA.

Ashwin and Jadeja never took this kind of undue advantage. India always used seam bowlers appropriately even in home conditions.

 

[Aviator]

Don't know about other things but this duo surely saved the sorry career of shan masood...

 

[Farabi]

Pakistan producing a seaming pitch vs South Africa in Pindi in 2021 and tbh they got away with it because Shaheen and Hassan Ali were in prime form.

Then came Australia and Ramiz insisted on highways which was a cowardly approach to neutralize their pace attack which backfired.

The 2022 Bazball humiliation was ridiculous too.

Teams like Australia, England and others have virtually no chance of winning in Pakistan on turning tracks. The only team that can is India and they obviously don’t want to play.

It is insane how much self-destruction Pakistan have caused in Test cricket in the last few years, but I guess better late than never.

I feel like the Pakistan cricket fraternity—and most of the fanbase, honestly—are all over the place and lack clarity.

Even with a clear trend of success, some people are still arguing that this approach isn’t a long-term solution. They call it “poor quality cricket.” Rizwan was even asked about it in a press conference yesterday, which just shows how divided everyone is.

Now the new complaint is that these pitches won’t prepare Pakistan for international challenges. But here’s the thing: when SENA teams prepare their pitches, they don’t care about spinning tracks in Asia. They’re not using home Tests to prepare for Asian tours—they’re focused entirely on winning in their own conditions.

It really feels like there’s some kind of inferiority complex at play here...

 

[zaidihusain]

I am loving this strategy adopted by PCB. All other Asian countries like India, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh are doing this since many years and there is no shame in doing that as every home team deserve advantage. In fact PCB started it very late otherwise Pakistan could have been in top 4 in test cricket easily. Pakistan wasted some great winning opportunities in previous home series against Aus, Eng & NZ when Ramiz was the chairman.

 

[Savak]

Pakistan is following the Bangladeshi template which will be detrimental for their pacers. Pacers need to be encouraged to utilize reverse swing atleast. Even India when they prepare rank turners have had Bhumrah, Siraj, Shami, Ishant Sharma run through teams at home by utilizing the new ball and the old ball via reverse swing.

 

[Farabi]

Pakistan is following the Bangladeshi template which will be detrimental for their pacers. Pacers need to be encouraged to utilize reverse swing atleast. Even India when they prepare rank turners have had Bhumrah, Siraj, Shami, Ishant Sharma run through teams at home by utilizing the new ball and the old ball via reverse swing.

Is the SENA teams template detrimental for their spinners and do they care?

 

[Farabi]

Pakistan is following the Bangladeshi template which will be detrimental for their pacers. Pacers need to be encouraged to utilize reverse swing atleast. Even India when they prepare rank turners have had Bhumrah, Siraj, Shami, Ishant Sharma run through teams at home by utilizing the new ball and the old ball via reverse swing.

Case in point @Mamoon

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pakistan is following the Bangladeshi template which will be detrimental for their pacers. Pacers need to be encouraged to utilize reverse swing atleast. Even India when they prepare rank turners have had Bhumrah, Siraj, Shami, Ishant Sharma run through teams at home by utilizing the new ball and the old ball via reverse swing.

Yeh I said this in the match thread too.

We aren't replicating India we are replicating the Bangladesh strategy

 

[Farabi]

Yeh I said this in the match thread too.

We aren't replicating India we are replicating the Bangladesh strategy

Bumrah and Shami would take lots of wickets with reverse on these Pakistani pitches. Seal took wickets in first innings too.

We simply do not have fast bowlers with the Skill nor the pace to reverse it. Quality pacers will still be more dangerous on this pitch than the flat pitches

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Any pitch that has been created with green houses and industrial fans, where the home team decides to only play one seamer and 3 spinners is not good for the game.

If we had lost the toss we would have spin from both ends after 10 overs on day 1 of a test match.

SENA pitches should have conditions for 3 seam + 1 spin and Asia 2+2. It's the best and most compelling cricket.

You can make exceptions for a match or two on a long tour.

Pakistan should employ this strategy for the short term but then tone it down once the team is back to winning ways.

 

[Hyder]

Any pitch that has been created with green houses and industrial fans, where the home team decides to only play one seamer and 3 spinners is not good for the game.

If we had lost the toss we would have spin from both ends after 10 overs on day 1 of a test match.

SENA pitches should have conditions for 3 seam + 1 spin and Asia 2+2. It's the best and most compelling cricket.

You can make exceptions for a match or two on a long tour.

Pakistan should employ this strategy for the short term but then tone it down once the team is back to winning ways.

Why sena should have 3 pace and 1 spin meanwhile asian pitches cant be 3 spin and 1 pace.

Also stop with these pitches not being that great put bumrah or cummins here and they will still pick up wickets.

Teams should last more than 50 overs to bring reverse into play hence we dont even see that.

Lastly, they are playing spin so wrongly. With such a big turn u are still getting lbw ut tells us how late they are playing and still missing it.
Two players scored excess of 70 on same pitch and such scores are very normal in overcast conditions in sena.

Cry about spinning pitches when sena teams make pitches where 2 spinners can be played

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Why sena should have 3 pace and 1 spin meanwhile asian pitches cant be 3 spin and 1 pace.

Also stop with these pitches not being that great put bumrah or cummins here and they will still pick up wickets.

Teams should last more than 50 overs to bring reverse into play hence we dont even see that.

Lastly, they are playing spin so wrongly. With such a big turn u are still getting lbw ut tells us how late they are playing and still missing it.
Two players scored excess of 70 on same pitch and such scores are very normal in overcast conditions in sena.

Cry about spinning pitches when sena teams make pitches where 2 spinners can be played

These are my principles. While I enjoy my team winning I can't forsake my principles because my ultimate love is for the game.

I will speak out against this rigging when any side does it even if it is my own.

I take no joy in rigging the conditions to batter a weak West Indies. None whatsoever.

 

[Hyder]

These are my principles. While I enjoy my team winning I can't forsake my principles because my ultimate love is for the game.

I will speak out against this rigging when any side does it even if it is my own.

I take no joy in rigging the conditions to batter a weak West Indies. None whatsoever.

If u want balance then say that all pitches should have equal assistance for pace and spin.

If sa can prepare green mambas to beat india then any subcontinent team can do so too.

 

[Hawkeye]

This thread is so spot on and will continue to expose the frauds that Ashwin and Jadeja are.

Had Pakistan been preparing these type of “Indian” pitches several Test bowlers from Pakistan would have surpassed 350 Test wickets by now.

We just wanted to be known as the “pace powerhouse” and refused to take advantage of our own freaking home conditions because of our fake egos.

Only Misbah ul Haq had some sense and he created life on lifeless UAE pitches by spinning away every opposition team as well as had good support from pace attack and they too contributed.

Even then the UAE conditions weren’t prime and pitches only offered spin on day 4/5.

We need pitches that turn from at least day 2. India has feasted on this and helped inflate the stats of their Test players.

 

[Hyder]

I think yasir shah and zulfiqar would ve had far greater test career if they got such pitches

 

[Hyder]

Ashwin and jadeja are to spin bowling what philander was to fast bowling

 

[Hawkeye]

No doubt in my mind that players like Yasir Shah, Zulfiqar, Sajid and Noman all would have had more Test wickets than Ashwin and Jadeja by this point in time.

Both Ash and Jaddu are FAR inferior Test spinners than the above bowlers.

 

[LordJames]

These are my principles. While I enjoy my team winning I can't forsake my principles because my ultimate love is for the game.

I will speak out against this rigging when any side does it even if it is my own.

I take no joy in rigging the conditions to batter a weak West Indies. None whatsoever.

The biggest principle in sports is to win. This team was scrapping the barrel, low on confidence and regularly beaten by visiting B & C teams.

For now, they are able to win and that's what matters.

Visiting teams now know the conditions and will prepare accordingly and that's fine.

The entire point of playing at home is to have conditions which suit your style of play, if Pakistan all of sudden discover 4 150+ bowlers who can swing both ways and bowl 20+ overa a day then we shouldn't be producing rank turners which turn squarely from day 1.

Winning matters and for now, it's fine.

This is how all International teams play, they prepare pitches to their advantage at home and conditions+crowd should help the local side...

The visitating sides should be worried and should struggle and not West Indians shouldn't find Multan like Sabina Park!

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan is following the Bangladeshi template which will be detrimental for their pacers. Pacers need to be encouraged to utilize reverse swing atleast. Even India when they prepare rank turners have had Bhumrah, Siraj, Shami, Ishant Sharma run through teams at home by utilizing the new ball and the old ball via reverse swing.

Case in point @Mamoon

With the exception of Shaheen who is only just getting back to his peak level, Pakistani pacers are not at the level of Bumrah and Shami. You can get reverse swing on these surfaces but the bowlers are not at that level.

At the end of the day, the only thing matters is winning and the foundation of a strong team is home dominance.

This strategy is a sure fire way of ensuring that Pakistan remains one of the top 3 teams in Test cricket. What more do fans want?

The next step is for PCB to ensure that they increase number of home Tests so that we keep on winning and everyone is happy.

 

[Ted123]

If they pick 400 and 300 test wickets at avg under 25, sure they are as good as Ashwin and Jadeja.

1-2 series won’t be enough. Batting side will come up with better plans next time and as a bowler you need to improve and evolve. That’s why Ashwin is a great bowler while Jadeja evolved his batting across all conditions to become a world class all rounder.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

One thing is abundantly clear now that pitches can make any one Shane Warne.

 

[Major]

@DeadlyVenom

I understand your point bro, but tell me one thing. If the conditions were tempered to make it suitable for pacers, than would you be alright with whats happening?

Look the thing is, anything is better compared to a flat track.

But i agree that this approach only works if there is a long term goal in hand. When India was hosting the 2011 World cup, they made sure that before the world cup, all the series that were to be played at home would be spin wickets, and they developed a whole strategy to that to make a team that survive and won the World Cup 2011 eventually. On a pacy wicket, everyone knew India stood no chance. Heck even a battered Pakistani side easily made it to the semi final of that world cup.

If Pakistan has a goal to win the World Test Championship like this, than its good for me. But yes, we will become a laughing stock like India was when we tour SENA countries.

If spin is our strength so why not have such wickets?

 

[Devadwal]

Hahahaha. Rohit Sharma can pickup 5 fer on this manufacturer doctored pitch By industrial fan against WI Tullebaaz.

 

[khyberlion]

Hahahaha. Rohit Sharma can pickup 5 fer on this manufacturer doctored pitch By industrial fan against WI Tullebaaz.

Agreed just like Joe root who has a 5fer for 8 on custom made pitches for jadeja and Ashwin.

 

[Mamoon]

Agreed just like Joe root who has a 5fer for 8 on custom made pitches for jadeja and Ashwin.

Who can forget Michael Clarke’s 6/9. He was bowling like prime Shane Warne.

 

[Devadwal]

Agreed just like Joe root who has a 5fer for 8 on custom made pitches for jadeja and Ashwin.

Yes root has 10 five fer in india.

 

[khyberlion]

Yes root has 10 five fer in india.

Seems like reading is also an issue for you. Sorry nothing I can help with.

 

[Devadwal]

Kumble had a test century in england so he is better than Babar Azam as babar has zero test century.

Pakistan fans and their nonsense logic. LAMO

 

[Mamoon]

Biggest frauds in Test cricket history (no particular order):

1. Ashwin
2. Jadeja
3. Laxman
4. Dhoni
5. Kohli

 

[khyberlion]

Who can forget Michael Clarke’s 6/9. He was bowling like prime Shane Warne.

We have seen many average spinners look like warne calibre in India. If Ashwin a d jadeja were so good they wouldn't have 1 5fer between them in SENA.

 

[Varun]

Biggest frauds in Test cricket history (no particular order):

1. Ashwin
2. Jadeja
3. Laxman
4. Dhoni
5. Kohli

In particular order:

1. Azharuddin
2. Gambhir
3. Kohli
4. Irfan Pathan
5. Harbhajan

 

[khyberlion]

Kumble had a test century in england so he is better than Babar Azam as babar has zero test century.

Pakistan fans and their nonsense logic. LAMO

Indian fans and their nonsense logic. Spinners are taking wickets on Pakistan so that means Rohit Sharma can take a 5fer too.

 

[Devadwal]

Indian fans and their nonsense logic. Spinners are taking wickets on Pakistan so that means Rohit Sharma can take a 5fer too.

That why i Said kumble had 1 test century in england so he is better batsman than Babar Azam by your logic? Right .

Op once said " 90% pakistan fan's don't understand anything about cricket" . He was right

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@DeadlyVenom

I understand your point bro, but tell me one thing. If the conditions were tempered to make it suitable for pacers, than would you be alright with whats happening?

Look the thing is, anything is better compared to a flat track.

But i agree that this approach only works if there is a long term goal in hand. When India was hosting the 2011 World cup, they made sure that before the world cup, all the series that were to be played at home would be spin wickets, and they developed a whole strategy to that to make a team that survive and won the World Cup 2011 eventually. On a pacy wicket, everyone knew India stood no chance. Heck even a battered Pakistani side easily made it to the semi final of that world cup.

If Pakistan has a goal to win the World Test Championship like this, than its good for me. But yes, we will become a laughing stock like India was when we tour SENA countries.

If spin is our strength so why not have such wickets?

If it was tampered to be too seam friendly then it wouldn't get for the balance of the game either. For a while our FC pitches were seam friendly and every trundler became Malcolm Marshall but none were good enough for international.

The only potential positive to seam friendly tampering would be perhaps our batsmen might be able to cope away from home.

Look, this over spin friendly approach does not work and always gets found out.

People seem to have the misconception that this is appropriate because SENA countries also do the same. Let me tell you I haven't seen this scale of industrial pitch creation before in any SENA country. Yes there may be more seam in some places than others but generally each ground has its own identify and own playing conditions and mostly there is more of a balance than is on display here.

Yes in the short term it's better than playing on phattas. Yes it's important we win.

But come on ask yourself is it really a victory when the only way we have confidence to beat a poor west Indies side is to rig the pitch and do dua we win the toss?

We are a few toss losses away from a complete melt down with this strategy too.

 

[Devadwal]

In particular order:

1. Azharuddin
2. Gambhir
3. Kohli
4. Irfan Pathan
5. Harbhajan

Gambhir had won india two ICC trophy

 

[khyberlion]

That why i Said kumble had 1 test century in england so he is better batsman than Babar Azam by your logic? Right .

Op once said " 90% pakistan fan's don't understand anything about cricket" . He was right

You seem very confused. You stated Rohit can take 5fers and now talking about something else.

 

[Mesozoic]

Ashwin and Jadeja made us build a fortress at home for 12 years by winning each and every series played.

Noman and Sajid won one single series after not winning a single Test at home for three whole years..

But somehow the latter are just as good as the former..

 

[mominsaigol]

Ashwin and Jadeja made us build a fortress at home for 12 years by winning each and every series played.

Noman and Sajid won one single series after not winning a single Test at home for three whole years..

But somehow the latter are just as good as the former..

Typical Indian overglorifiers.

Ashwin and jadeja couldn't do anything outside Asia and on spin mambas, same mambas that root took a 5 fer on.

Australia ended Ashwin's career so bad that he retired crying to him mama.

Fraud pitch tampering cricket nation

 

[Mamoon]

We have seen many average spinners look like warne calibre in India. If Ashwin a d jadeja were so good they wouldn't have 1 5fer between them in SENA.

Santner would have taken 500 Test wickets in India.

 

[Farabi]

If it was tampered to be too seam friendly then it wouldn't get for the balance of the game either. For a while our FC pitches were seam friendly and every trundler became Malcolm Marshall but none were good enough for international.

The only potential positive to seam friendly tampering would be perhaps our batsmen might be able to cope away from home.

Look, this over spin friendly approach does not work and always gets found out.

People seem to have the misconception that this is appropriate because SENA countries also do the same. Let me tell you I haven't seen this scale of industrial pitch creation before in any SENA country. Yes there may be more seam in some places than others but generally each ground has its own identify and own playing conditions and mostly there is more of a balance than is on display here.

Yes in the short term it's better than playing on phattas. Yes it's important we win.

But come on ask yourself is it really a victory when the only way we have confidence to beat a poor west Indies side is to rig the pitch and do dua we win the toss?

We are a few toss losses away from a complete melt down with this strategy too.

You might not have “seen it,” but all international teams shamelessly prepare pitches to suit their strengths using their own unique tactics.

You’re over-focusing on industrial fans. Weather varies, tactics differ, but the goal is always the same.

For seaming pitches, teams leave just the right amount of grass, keep the surface slightly damp, and use light rolling to maintain softness. They rely on strategic watering, pitch covers, and longer outfields to slow scoring and give their bowlers an edge.

 

[Farabi]

If it was tampered to be too seam friendly then it wouldn't get for the balance of the game either. For a while our FC pitches were seam friendly and every trundler became Malcolm Marshall but none were good enough for international.

The only potential positive to seam friendly tampering would be perhaps our batsmen might be able to cope away from home.

Look, this over spin friendly approach does not work and always gets found out.

People seem to have the misconception that this is appropriate because SENA countries also do the same. Let me tell you I haven't seen this scale of industrial pitch creation before in any SENA country. Yes there may be more seam in some places than others but generally each ground has its own identify and own playing conditions and mostly there is more of a balance than is on display here.

Yes in the short term it's better than playing on phattas. Yes it's important we win.

But come on ask yourself is it really a victory when the only way we have confidence to beat a poor west Indies side is to rig the pitch and do dua we win the toss?

We are a few toss losses away from a complete melt down with this strategy too.

Also, I am not sure about what balance you are referring to. Most games in SENA are also ending in 3 days. SA is the worse. Some games end there in 2 days.

 

[Rajdeep]

A little bit of home success against 3rd class teams have gone into the head of Pakistani fans. They should be focussing on improving embarrassing SENA records rather than beating WI side in doctored pitches at home. LOL

 

[msb314]

Biggest frauds in Test cricket history (no particular order):

1. Ashwin
2. Jadeja
3. Laxman
4. Dhoni
5. Kohli

Probably Rohit Sharma and Shubman Gill too…

 

[angrypathan]

Gambhir had won india two ICC trophy

Which of those trophies were in Test cricket?