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Have Shadab Khan's all-round abilities put Yasir Shah permanently on the bench?

Syed1

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I am massive fan of Shah and could watch him bowl all day, but he brings nothing much to the table in terms of batting ability.



Shadab on the other hand is an inferior bowler but several times better batsman. Infact Pakistan has needed Shadab's batting to bail them out or take them to a good position twice in the previous two matches.



So question is does Mickey continue with Shadab even when Shah is fit and available for selection?
 
Yasir walks straight back into the side in the UAE. Our match winner.

But yeah overseas it will be a tough call. I guess Shadab will be favoured when the conditions are not conducive to spin.
 
I hope we don't make the mistake of playing two leggies. That would be the worst decision ever.



Shah makes the spot in UAE, however, it would be a tough call for Mickey to drop Shadab if he keeps picking up crucial wickets AND performing with the bat.
 
In Asia, Yasir is the biggest match winner from Pakistan team. He's irreplaceable until Shadab becomes a better bowler.
 
Away from home (UAE) might be a case that Shadab may oust Yasir from the team but not in the UAE.
 
In Asia, Yasir is the biggest match winner from Pakistan team. He's irreplaceable until Shadab becomes a better bowler.

Shah was world class and fit right in Misbah's game plan of grinding the opposition into submission, it worked well in UAE. However, Sarfaraz and Mickey have a different game plan where they want everybody from 1-10 able to hold a bat and contribute in more than one department. They are building a more dynamic side.


Shah isn't a bad batsman, but he is no where close to Shadab in terms of batting ability. At best he can hang around for a bit or play as nightwatchman now that Sami cannot find a spot in the eleven.
 
I hope we don't make the mistake of playing two leggies. That would be the worst decision ever.



Shah makes the spot in UAE, however, it would be a tough call for Mickey to drop Shadab if he keeps picking up crucial wickets AND performing with the bat.

Why not play both? Yasir's biggest strength is his accuracy. He can keep it tight when need be.

I think the team combination we have now is perfect for Eng/SA/NZ/Aus Tests. Shaheen should be in future squads to allow the seamers to rotate during longer series.

For UAE conditions, I would replace Yasir for Faheem and another seamer for Gohar (possibly Amir due to his knees).

So the lower order would be:

7) Shadab
8) Yasir
9) Hassan
10) Zafar
11) Abbas
 
Why not play both? Yasir's biggest strength is his accuracy. He can keep it tight when need be.

I think the team combination we have now is perfect for Eng/SA/NZ/Aus Tests. Shaheen should be in future squads to allow the seamers to rotate during longer series.

For UAE conditions, I would replace Yasir for Faheem and another seamer for Gohar (possibly Amir due to his knees).

So the lower order would be:

7) Shadab
8) Yasir
9) Hassan
10) Zafar
11) Abbas

You would play three spinners??? You do realize that UAE pitches aren't the rank turners that you guys make them out to be right? UAE pitches are dead and the ball doesn't do anything, it only starts spinning when the pitch cracks up under the sun after day 3 or more and that too is not prodigious spin. We haven't played good spin playing sides like IND in UAE otherwise you people would have known that UAE pitches are not spin heaven. We have played sides like Aus and Eng mostly and they would get out to a spinner even on a grass or cement pitch.
 
You would play three spinners??? You do realize that UAE pitches aren't the rank turners that you guys make them out to be right? UAE pitches are dead and the ball doesn't do anything, it only starts spinning when the pitch cracks up under the sun after day 3 or more and that too is not prodigious spin. We haven't played good spin playing sides like IND in UAE otherwise you people would have known that UAE pitches are not spin heaven. We have played sides like Aus and Eng mostly and they would get out to a spinner even on a grass or cement pitch.

I would still play 3 spinners. Yasir has back issues (not a new problem) and if we continue giving him the workload he has had against WI and SL in our recent UAE series, he won't last much longer.

And I don't want to run Abbas and Hassan to the ground either. Use them for short, burst spells with the new ball and once it starts to reverse. Rotate the 3 spinners around (obviously Shadab won't bowl that many overs as to the other 2).
 
I would still play 3 spinners. Yasir has back issues (not a new problem) and if we continue giving him the workload he has had against WI and SL in our recent UAE series, he won't last much longer.

And I don't want to run Abbas and Hassan to the ground either. Use them for short, burst spells with the new ball and once it starts to reverse. Rotate the 3 spinners around (obviously Shadab won't bowl that many overs as to the other 2).

Yasir is a grinder he takes wickets due to persistence, he won't work in short spells. However another spinner to share the load will be great but 3 is too much.
 
No.Shah over Shadab anywhere in Asia.Shadab can play as the second spinner.Shah would replace one of Amir,Hassan and Abbas(probably Amir).

Outside Asia though,we'll play with 4 fast bowlers(including Faheem).I'll drop Shah in favour of Shadab as he provides a better batting option.
 
Why is there always a tendency to fashion opinions in an extreme manner?

No, Shadab isn't good enough yet to don the whites for Test matches, he needs several years of development before he's at the level that Yasir Shah is at. He's merely holding the spot before Yasir comes back from his injury layoff and I hope people here aren't surprised when Yasir comes back into the line-up because he deserves some leeway with regards to proving he's still at an international match winning level when fully fit.
 
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Yrsir Shah replaces Faheem in UAE. One fast bowler gets replaced by spinner, preferable an off spinner like Bilal Asif.
Bilal asif provides batting as well like Faheem
 
Yasir is a grinder he takes wickets due to persistence, he won't work in short spells. However another spinner to share the load will be great but 3 is too much.

Yasir is not a grinder whatsoever, a SR of 56 is excellent for a spinner and almost rivals Pakistani ATGs like Imran Khan and Wasim Akram and no one would dare to call them anything but strike bowlers.
 
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With Shadab in playing XI team management afford to play 5 genuine bowlers in tests in UAE, As someone above said, two fast bowler and three spinners, Yasir, Shadab and some other rockie, The way shadab played against Ireland and England he is better batsman than Hafeez (who used to open and score tons at UAE_
 
Shah was world class and fit right in Misbah's game plan of grinding the opposition into submission, it worked well in UAE. However, Sarfaraz and Mickey have a different game plan where they want everybody from 1-10 able to hold a bat and contribute in more than one department. They are building a more dynamic side.


Shah isn't a bad batsman, but he is no where close to Shadab in terms of batting ability. At best he can hang around for a bit or play as nightwatchman now that Sami cannot find a spot in the eleven.

Maybe If Mickey thinks Zafar is up to standard we will see

Shadab
Faheem
Zafar
2 Quicks

But dropping Yasir will be a very courageous decision given his past record.
 
No. He will play along side Yasir Shah in subcontinent (faheem will be dropped) and fahim will play (shadab will be dropped) when away from subcontinent - yasir shah will be first name always.

For him to replace yasir shah, he needs to get really really competent at bowling legspin
 
Yasir Shah is no mug with the bat for one, if he really applies himself he can score runs. He is more experienced and patience than Shadab with the ball.
 
Shah was world class and fit right in Misbah's game plan of grinding the opposition into submission, it worked well in UAE. However, Sarfaraz and Mickey have a different game plan where they want everybody from 1-10 able to hold a bat and contribute in more than one department. They are building a more dynamic side.


Shah isn't a bad batsman, but he is no where close to Shadab in terms of batting ability. At best he can hang around for a bit or play as nightwatchman now that Sami cannot find a spot in the eleven.


Mundaya dil khush kar dita e tu :)))
 
For #’s 8-11, I would have Agha Salman, Yasir, Hasan, Abbas.

Reason being that Agha Salman is an off-spinner and a decent lower-order batsman.

Yasir is a MUST in Asia for us as without the AUS series in AUS, he averages 26.7 which is better than any leggie since Warne. In the last Test series against SL in the UAE, he took 16 wickets in 2 Tests at 25.25. And that included two 5-fer’s on the flattest, most lifeless tracks you will ever see in cricket. What he needs to do besides improving fitness is to regain that bounce he had in his first two years. I’ve mentioned it time and time again, he has lost that bounce since his back injury in the series against ENG in 2015.
 
Yasir Shah's been a liability especially outside of Asia.

In Asia, he still has some role, but not too sure about recent fitness issues.
 
SHAH vs SHAHdab

The latter is the better one. He can easily take a fiver in Asia/UAE so dont count him out when you haven’t seen him
 
Shadab has some way to go as a spinner. I actually think not having a spin bowling coach is hampering his development.
 
Why not play both and think of Shadab as a replacement for Hafeez - except that he can bat and bowl quite well, unlike Hafeez who against any non minnow team bats like a tailender and bowls like a part-timer.
 
Yasir Shah's been a liability especially outside of Asia.

In Asia, he still has some role, but not too sure about recent fitness issues.

He won 2 Tests in UK and won a Series in WI; played one Test in NZ on green top. His only legitimate failure was in AUS & I am sure he'll trouble SAF if fit.

I don't think it's Shadab's all-round ability, rather Yasir's fitness - if he is perfectly fit for 60+ overs' work load, he'll be 1st choice at least for couple more years, in most cases. But, Shadab brings batting with him, therefore in a 5 bowler strategy on seemer's wicket, he might suit better than Yasir.
 
No, Yasir is clearly the much better spinner and while its great that Shadab is a solid allrounder but in Tests, you need specialists that excel at their job.

When Yasir is back, I'd say both Faheem and Shadab should be moved out of the lineup otherwise batting is just too weak.
 
I'm hugely impressed by Shadab's batting and his strong mentality, and would annoint him as our Test #6. However, his red ball bowling needs a lot of work and must bowl longer spells in FC cricket to perfect the difficult art of legspin - especially to improve his control and stock delivery.

At Lord's he went at 4 RPO and the two scalps he got at Lord's in the 2nd innings were bonus wickets.

You would play three spinners??? You do realize that UAE pitches aren't the rank turners that you guys make them out to be right? UAE pitches are dead and the ball doesn't do anything, it only starts spinning when the pitch cracks up under the sun after day 3 or more and that too is not prodigious spin. We haven't played good spin playing sides like IND in UAE otherwise you people would have known that UAE pitches are not spin heaven. We have played sides like Aus and Eng mostly and they would get out to a spinner even on a grass or cement pitch.

The UAE doesn't help pacers either so no point bowling them into the ground, especially with a World Cup around the corner and Amir's fitness issues.

I wouldn't have a 2 man spin attack consisting of Yasir and Shadab as two leggies will be too predictable - as we saw in Barbados last year.

I agree with [MENTION=70195]AFM[/MENTION] and [MENTION=53809]Hasan Cheema[/MENTION], play three spinners in Yasir, one of Zafar Gohar or Raza Hasan, and Shadab. We played 3 spinners against England in 2012 in Saeed Ajmal, Abdul Rehman and Mohammad Hafeez which was a huge success. Your two pacers can be Abbas and one of Amir/Hasan Ali. And I wouldn't worry about playing India any time soon, that ain't happening for the forseeable future.
 
Over the next year or so we should look to phase Yasir out. Shadab has more potential with bat and potentially with the ball. Yasir should play in Asia for now but in South Africa I would be tempted to go with Shadab due to his all round ability.
 
No Yasir is a must for UAE tests but for overseas we can pick and chose pitch wise
 
No. Yasir Shah is one of our best players and is a far better bowler than Shadab at the moment.

Make no mistake, we're an even better team with Yasir Shah.
 
Over the next year or so we should look to phase Yasir out. Shadab has more potential with bat and potentially with the ball. Yasir should play in Asia for now but in South Africa I would be tempted to go with Shadab due to his all round ability.

At Durban if w have a test there Yasir should play
 
He won 2 Tests in UK and won a Series in WI; played one Test in NZ on green top. His only legitimate failure was in AUS & I am sure he'll trouble SAF if fit.

I don't think it's Shadab's all-round ability, rather Yasir's fitness - if he is perfectly fit for 60+ overs' work load, he'll be 1st choice at least for couple more years, in most cases. But, Shadab brings batting with him, therefore in a 5 bowler strategy on seemer's wicket, he might suit better than Yasir.

I agree he would trouble SA if fit
 
Yasir will replace Faheem in UAE, while Shadab will retain his place. Team management clearly doesn't rate Asghar and I don't see any other decent finger spinner in domestic cricket at the moment.
 
He won 2 Tests in UK and won a Series in WI; played one Test in NZ on green top. His only legitimate failure was in AUS & I am sure he'll trouble SAF if fit.

I don't think it's Shadab's all-round ability, rather Yasir's fitness - if he is perfectly fit for 60+ overs' work load, he'll be 1st choice at least for couple more years, in most cases. But, Shadab brings batting with him, therefore in a 5 bowler strategy on seemer's wicket, he might suit better than Yasir.

Expensive in the UK and not that good, got lucky on most occasions.

WI is obvious, it's a spinner's paradise.
 
Yasir will replace Faheem in UAE, while Shadab will retain his place. Team management clearly doesn't rate Asghar and I don't see any other decent finger spinner in domestic cricket at the moment.

Yeah, surprisingly the 2 best spinners in Pakistan imo are Yasir and Irfan (both leg spinners) and Shadab as spin allrounder (also leg spinner). Need to find a finger spinner and looking forward to see more of Zafar Gohar.
 
Expensive in the UK and not that good, got lucky on most occasions.

WI is obvious, it's a spinner's paradise.

On a greentop play Shadab and faheem

On a pitch like over, Lord’s, Durban, Sydney Yasir has to play and also every where in Asia
 
Why not play both? Yasir's biggest strength is his accuracy. He can keep it tight when need be.

I think the team combination we have now is perfect for Eng/SA/NZ/Aus Tests. Shaheen should be in future squads to allow the seamers to rotate during longer series.

For UAE conditions, I would replace Yasir for Faheem and another seamer for Gohar (possibly Amir due to his knees).

So the lower order would be:

7) Shadab
8) Yasir
9) Hassan
10) Zafar
11) Abbas

This! Good post - I agree with this because I see more potential with Shadab's batting than his leg spin in the longer format.

You can tell from his interviews he's more serious about developing his batting and it is no wonder why his role model is Steve Smith. Let's not make him rot in domestic cricket.

Yasir Shah and Zafar/Asghar would be my front line spinners with Shadab being the part time option to assist with the work load. Amir has expressed desire to reduce the number of tests he plays, so may as well do him the favour as he always seems uninspired bowling in the UAE.
 
Shadab has potential but yet to bowl a world class spell. Still early days but given Yasir Shah's form it would be hard to drop him just yet especially at home. Shadab would have been on the bench at Lords if Shah was fit.
 
Expensive in the UK and not that good, got lucky on most occasions.

WI is obvious, it's a spinner's paradise.

Lucky?

You don’t get 10 wickets on your first Test outside Asia by being lucky and winning two overseas Tests.

Yes he had a mixed tour but to say he was lucky is really lacking in thought.
 
No, and you'll notice that when you realise that a 50 from your number 7 batsman in the UAE is pretty much useless when the opposition is 1/350 on the flattest of pitches.

Shadab isn't penetrative enough as a bowler, and in Asia, you need a proper spinner. Yasir walks in the team in Asia.
 
To be frank, Shadab is still young and he can develop as a bowler. Right now he is a decent Test bowler and a good lower order batsman, a combination you wouldn't want in a Test side replacing your premier spinner. Yasir is a proven performer and I don't think Shadab is a threat to him at the moment.
 
Yasir is very overrated it seems. He was average on our away tours to England and Australia over all. There were 1 or 2 instances of greatness with a lot mediocrity in between. He's not going to progress and improve anymore at his age, better to invest in Shadab rather than send him back to "develop". He'll develop fine playing at this level and learning from international experience. A quick learner, and a street smart cricketer with talent in all 3 fields. If he keeps his head down, and continues the hard work whilst staying humble he could go very very far.
 
outside uae shadab will definitely play
in uae it will be yasir for a year or two until
shadab bowling improved
 
You need to be good at your primary job to excel in Test.It is like selecting a mediocre keeper due to his batting abilities.
 
Yasir Shah is still your No.1 spinner for Tests. Shadab is more of a limited overs player as of yet who is still going to take time to overcome his shortcomings in Tests and adjust his game.
 
the only way shadab could put yasir on the bench is if he bowled about as well as yasir, but he is not even close yet. what we are left with is a shoaib malik for saqlain rerun.

yasir remains our only bonafide match winning spinner, or if you are [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION], our flukiest spinner, who lucked his way to a ten wicket haul in England and became by sheer fluke the fastest spinner to 100 Test wickets.

Whatever may be the case, any team could do with such fluke.

for having the most infectious grin, however, shadab is pretty close to messi shah.
 
Yasir is very overrated it seems. He was average on our away tours to England and Australia over all. There were 1 or 2 instances of greatness with a lot mediocrity in between. He's not going to progress and improve anymore at his age, better to invest in Shadab rather than send him back to "develop". He'll develop fine playing at this level and learning from international experience. A quick learner, and a street smart cricketer with talent in all 3 fields. If he keeps his head down, and continues the hard work whilst staying humble he could go very very far.

He won a Test singlehandedly in England,with 10 wickets in the match. He is the only Pakistani bowler in recent memory to occupy the no 1 spot in the ICC Test rankings. He's the fastest spinner ever to 100 Test wickets. And bowlers better than him have failed in Australia. See under Murali. This does not mean that he is the best spinner in the world. But the real question is not how good is Yasir? The question is does Pakistan have anyone better than him? Another match winning spinner capable of running through a lineup? And the answer so far is emphatically no.
 
Yasir is a grinder he takes wickets due to persistence, he won't work in short spells. However another spinner to share the load will be great but 3 is too much.

Hmm, maybe we can put this "grinder" in perspective

Player SR
Yasir Shah 56

Shane Warne 57
Murali 55

Abdul Qadir 72
Mushtaq Ahmed 67
Danish Kaneria 67
Saqlain Musthaq 67
 
No way
Yasir will walk straight into the team the day he recovers fully.

Yasir is best Leg-spinner in Tests in the world atm, nobody is in his league atm in Tests.
 
On the flat pitches of UAE, I don't think his batting would make that much of a difference, so when it comes to playing in UAE/Asia I think Yasir doesn't need to worry about his place being in threat, we could even fit in both, outside of Asia we will have a dilemma when both are fit though.
 
On the flat pitches of UAE, I don't think his batting would make that much of a difference, so when it comes to playing in UAE/Asia I think Yasir doesn't need to worry about his place being in threat, we could even fit in both, outside of Asia we will have a dilemma when both are fit though.

No there is no dilemma. If Shadab's performances so far are anything to go by, he is stronger as a batsman than as a bowler, and the debate should therefore be whether he should replace a specialist batsman, with his own bowling counted as a bonus.
 
Play with both,shadab as all-rounder and yasir as a bowler.shadab also looking best Pakistan batsman
 
I think for the time being he has left yasir without a spot simply because it will allow Pakistan to play 4 fast bowlers in SA. I don't think Fahim adds much value to the team. Mickey should demand more runs from top 6(including Sarfraz) and play Shadab,hasan,Aamir,Abbas and either Wahab or someone like Shaheen.
 
No there is no dilemma. If Shadab's performances so far are anything to go by, he is stronger as a batsman than as a bowler, and the debate should therefore be whether he should replace a specialist batsman, with his own bowling counted as a bonus.

Never make that mistake when bowling ARs bat well for a series or two.

We have seen this play out so many times. Bowling ARs are good enough to contribute runs but never good enough to be pure bats.

When they lose form, they will struggle to score even 15-20.
 
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Perhaps at some point, both could be in the starting XI.

If only we could combine Yasir's bowling with Shadab's batting.
 
If a fast bowler shouldn't be judged on his bowling in the UAE then why should a spinner be judged on his bowling in Australia.

Shah has done a terrific job for Pakistan after Ajmal's departure. He's the biggest match winner for Pakistan.
 
Never make that mistake when bowling ARs bat well for a series or two.

We have seen this play out so many times. Bowling ARs are good enough to contribute runs but never good enough to be pure bats.

When they lose form, they will struggle to score even 15-20.

This is so unintelligent and lacking in analysis it's shocking and scary.

For that matter Steve Smith was a 'bowling all-rounder'.

What matter is the individual performance of the player. Not arbitrary labels like 'all-rounder' or 'leg-spinner'. Every player must be analyzed on merit; not by virtue of comparisons with often wholly unrelated players.

This tendency is so destructive and so common that in fact Houston Rockets GM banned his coaches and analysis team from ever comparing two players except on direct data and individualized performance unless they were of different race (and given 80% of NBA is black, that's just a total ban).

Shadab Khan is arguably good enough to play as a batsman, but it's a close argument, but the fact that he also bowls good leg-spin is a clincher. He's too good not to play.
 
This is so unintelligent and lacking in analysis it's shocking and scary.

For that matter Steve Smith was a 'bowling all-rounder'.

What matter is the individual performance of the player. Not arbitrary labels like 'all-rounder' or 'leg-spinner'. Every player must be analyzed on merit; not by virtue of comparisons with often wholly unrelated players.

This tendency is so destructive and so common that in fact Houston Rockets GM banned his coaches and analysis team from ever comparing two players except on direct data and individualized performance unless they were of different race (and given 80% of NBA is black, that's just a total ban).

Shadab Khan is arguably good enough to play as a batsman, but it's a close argument, but the fact that he also bowls good leg-spin is a clincher. He's too good not to play.

Steve Smith was never a bowling all rounder he was a fine batsman in FC Sheffield Shield averaging over 50 Shadab hasnt shown anything like Steve Smiths batting prowess to be compared to him.
 
This is so unintelligent and lacking in analysis it's shocking and scary.

For that matter Steve Smith was a 'bowling all-rounder'.

What matter is the individual performance of the player. Not arbitrary labels like 'all-rounder' or 'leg-spinner'. Every player must be analyzed on merit; not by virtue of comparisons with often wholly unrelated players.

This tendency is so destructive and so common that in fact Houston Rockets GM banned his coaches and analysis team from ever comparing two players except on direct data and individualized performance unless they were of different race (and given 80% of NBA is black, that's just a total ban).

Shadab Khan is arguably good enough to play as a batsman, but it's a close argument, but the fact that he also bowls good leg-spin is a clincher. He's too good not to play.

Steve Smith was never a bowling all rounder he was a fine batsman in FC Sheffield Shield averaging over 50 Shadab hasnt shown anything like Steve Smiths batting prowess to be compared to him.

This. I was about to type this but you did it.

CricketAnalyst - I can see where you are coming from and I don't disagree with your premise that we shouldn't be a slave to our preconceived notions.

Also think a few times before giving an example lest it may turn out to be a wrong one.
 
Both should play in UAE. Yasir should be played/dropped according to the conditions in overseas tests.
 
Don't think Shadab is ready for test cricket yet. Think I was wrong on that. I will play Yasir over Shadab in tests for now.
 
Shadab and Yasir should both play in next test.

PAK will lose that Test in that case, if Ken wins the toss - I'll take a bet at any odd on this (..... as long as the total payout doesn't cross by bankruptcy limit, which is not encouraging these days :( ) How does PAK posters bring both names together for an UAE Test? It's blasphemous ......
 
Shadab should be honing his skills in 4 day cricket
 
PAK will lose that Test in that case, if Ken wins the toss - I'll take a bet at any odd on this (..... as long as the total payout doesn't cross by bankruptcy limit, which is not encouraging these days :( ) How does PAK posters bring both names together for an UAE Test? It's blasphemous ......

Ideally it should be Zafar partnering Yasir in the next test but considering that Zafar is not in consideration, Shadab should replace Bilal.
 
Ideally it should be Zafar partnering Yasir in the next test but considering that Zafar is not in consideration, Shadab should replace Bilal.

Neither Shadab or Zafar are in squad for 3rd Test (It's not announced yet) - is there any reason that a SLAO spinner can't be called upon in 3rd Test?

No, if they don't bring any new spinner, I'll play SSA or even an extra batsman over Shadab or Bilal - next Test (after 3rd one) is 5 weeks later and Sarfraz can kill Yasir for one more Test with 3 bowlers. These bits & pieces all-rounders have no place in Test game.
 
When it comes to Test cricket Shadab is nowhere near Yasir Shah.

Shadab needs to play much more 4-day cricket to establish himself in that format.
 
Yasir needs to improve his batting and also learn how to control runs on unresponsive pitches.

Pakistan is basically playing with 10 players outside UAE.
 
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