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Hindus Looking to India, Where Some Find Only Disappointment (NYT)

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JODHPUR, India — By the time an angry Muslim mob stormed the local Hindu school and ransacked an adjacent temple a few weeks ago, many members of Pakistan’s dwindling Hindu minority had already been wondering whether it was worth trying to stay in a country where they felt increasingly unsafe.

In April, an angry mob vandalized a different Hindu temple, smashing its idols and chucking the pieces in an open sewer. In May, a Hindu veterinarian was accused of blasphemy in a neighboring town, his shop burned to the ground on the rumor that he was selling medicine wrapped in Islamic religious text.

More than 70 years after the partition of India and Pakistan, increasing violence in this officially Muslim country against the Hindu minority — about 1 percent of Pakistan’s 210 million people — is leading some Hindus to rethink the choices and fate that left their families on the Pakistani side of the line in 1947, residents say.

“Most of our elders at the time of partition did not migrate to India because they did not want to lose their businesses. But now they see it was the wrong decision,” said Kumar, a small-business owner from Ghotki District in Pakistan’s Sindh Province, where the attacks unfolded on Sept. 15. He asked that his last name be withheld, fearing mob violence.

“I am considering moving to India, where at least no one can kill me on the basis of my faith,” he said.

The trepidation among Pakistani Hindus is mirrored in many ways among the Muslim minority in India, where a campaign of Hindu nationalism led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s party has left many Muslims feeling targeted. Sectarian fears in both India and Pakistan always peak during times of tension, and hostility between the neighbors is running particularly high right now.

In Pakistan, local officials say the pressure for Hindus to weigh moving to India has not been this great since a wave of sectarian violence led many to migrate in the 1990s, after a Hindu mob in India tore down a 16th-century mosque, the Babri Masjid, leading to retaliatory attacks in Pakistan.

The current migration is because of Mr. Modi’s open appeals to Hindu identity in India, they say, stripping the country of the secular framework it was founded on to give supremacy to their religion.

Since Mr. Modi’s election victory, Pakistani Hindus say they have had an easier time obtaining religious or pilgrimage visas to India, which they can then convert to long-term visas if they seek Indian citizenship.

Though the exact number of Hindu migrants is hard to pin down, indications of a wider push to go to India can be seen in the numbers of those long-term visas. In 2018, the Indian government granted 12,732 long-term visas, compared with 4,712 in 2017, and 2,298 in 2016, according to the Ministry of External Affairs. About 95 percent of long-term visas are granted to Pakistani Hindus, officials say.

Millions of Hindus remained in Pakistan when Britain carved out the state from the subcontinent to create a Muslim homeland at independence in 1947. They were unwilling to abandon their homes and businesses, like the millions of Muslims who ended up on the Indian side during partition, where now about 200 million live.

But angry sectarian mobs on both sides of the border sought to change those demographics at the nations’ birth, killing up to two million people and displacing 14 million. Trains packed with terrified Muslims and Hindus fleeing in opposite directions on the railway between India and Pakistan arrived full of corpses, passengers massacred mid-journey.
Train service between the countries was suspended when they went to war in 1965 and 1971, but eventually resumed. Last month, Pakistan suspended India-bound trains once again, protesting New Delhi’s move to strip the autonomy from the portion of Kashmir it controls, a Muslim-majority state the countries have long fought over.

Even among Pakistani Hindus who are considering going to India, there are very real reasons to hesitate.

Kumar is one who is torn. Though he was shaken by the recent violence in his hometown, he said he was still reluctant to pick up and leave when the trains start running again. He has said goodbye to neighbors who have migrated to India, only to see them return to Pakistan months or years later, disappointed.

Bhagchand Bheel is one of the disappointed. When he migrated to India in 2014, he was grateful to leave the violence and pressure of Karachi, Pakistan’s commercial hub. He boarded the Thar Express to Zero Point Station, the last stop before the border, where he and his family lugged their bags by foot into India, settling in a camp in the city of Jodhpur.

He was among his people, he thought, and could finally be free. But he is of a lower caste, and when he tried to enter a Hindu temple, he was barred entry by the priest because of it, he said. And when he tried to drink from the community water well, he was physically assaulted by upper caste Brahmins who accused him of polluting it.

“In Pakistan, the only thing that matters is if you are Hindu or Muslim,” said Mr. Bheel, whose last name is derived from his tribe. “Because we are Hindus, in Pakistan we were discriminated against. But in India, I face discrimination because I’m a Bheel.”

Like many Pakistani Hindus, Mr. Bheel migrated after Mr. Modi came to power in 2014, after a long campaign promoting Hindu nationalism.

Muslims in India say life has gotten progressively harder for them, too. Mr. Modi’s government is accused of turning a blind eye to the scores of Muslim men lynched by Hindu mobs. When an 8-year old Muslim girl was gang raped and killed in Kashmir last year by Hindu men, local police officers allegedly helped cover up the crime.

But despite the discrimination Muslims face in India, they do not tend to migrate to Pakistan in the numbers their Hindu counterparts in Pakistan do. Indian Muslims tend to migrate to the West instead.

In the Al Kausar Nagar migrant camp in Jodhpur, huts made out of thin, wispy branches, like birds’ nests, nestle in clusters, with quilts with vibrant Pakistani tribal designs hanging off their sides.

Bands of Pakistani Hindu women crouch over unfinished quilts, stitching away, hoping to sell them in the market to wealthier Indians. They complain that they receive little government assistance, siphoning what little electricity and water they can off municipal lines, and that the quality of public schooling for their children is not as good as it is in Pakistan, a main source of grievance for the many who migrated to give their children better opportunities.

This is not the Hindu paradise they had crossed the border to join, they said. This is not the India Mr. Modi promised them.

Mr. Bheel is wracked by doubt, the same doubt his grandfather had when he chose to keep the family in Pakistan during partition. Did he make the right choice?

He left his home and siblings in Karachi, trading a lucrative job as an administrator of a medical clinic there to live as a migrant in India. His medical diploma, one of the few possessions he brought with him, hangs proudly on a wall, although it is not valid in India. He struggles to make ends meet here.

“You take these decisions sometimes out of excitement for what your life could be,” Mr. Bheel said, his daughter cuddling beside him on a bench. “Then you arrive and realize it’s much different on the ground.”

Mr. Bheel looked on as his wife struggled to contain rainwater leaking from the ceiling, after a monsoon swiftly obliterated the sunny sky. Eventually she gave up, running out of pots and buckets.

“Maybe this wasn’t the right decision for me,” he said. “But maybe my children will look back and say, ‘My father made the right choice.’”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/05/...india-modi.html#click=https://t.co/zrHBYHuUIM
 
PK is for all, and PK Hindus need to be protected and made to feel as PK as each and everyone one us.
 
Feel bad for those Hindus who migrate only to find that India is worse than Pakistan. They leave expecting to find a bright shining new country and end up in dirtier conditions with less prospects. Not like the brochure as they say.
 
Feel bad for those Hindus who migrate only to find that India is worse than Pakistan. They leave expecting to find a bright shining new country and end up in dirtier conditions with less prospects. Not like the brochure as they say.

Of course when you leave a country for another as a refugee, you'll find the living conditions tougher as you've no house to live and you're most probably placed in not so clean camps. You don't expect to get a clean hotel suite to live in.
 
Of course when you leave a country for another as a refugee, you'll find the living conditions tougher as you've no house to live and you're most probably placed in not so clean camps. You don't expect to get a clean hotel suite to live in.

Seems like they are expecting a lot more from reading their interviews.
 
Of course when you leave a country for another as a refugee, you'll find the living conditions tougher as you've no house to live and you're most probably placed in not so clean camps. You don't expect to get a clean hotel suite to live in.

.. and of course facing discrimination because you are a lower caste is completely above board??

He was among his people, he thought, and could finally be free. But he is of a lower caste, and when he tried to enter a Hindu temple, he was barred entry by the priest because of it, he said. And when he tried to drink from the community water well, he was physically assaulted by upper caste Brahmins who accused him of polluting it.
 
If the stories of "Muslim mobs" as the NYT puts it, "ransacking" Hindu temples is true...then what is happening in India that is SO bad that the Hindus want to come back to "Muslim mobs" in Pakistan?
 
We have a problem with our minorities let that be openly acknowledged. Seems as if IK has been unable to do anything about it as yet. Truthfully minorities in both India and Pak are treated horribly.
 
I was a minority in India and it’s not as what Pakistanis want to to be. As far as India is concerned money and power will take precedence over religion. If you have money doors will open for you. It don’t matter if you are black, white, Hindu, Christian or Muslim.
 
From what I got from the article, he faced religious discrimination in Pakistan and in India that discrimination changed from religious to caste based. But unfortunately discrimination exists in both countries.

Instead of playing political games, we need to admit minorities are mistreated in both countries and both India/Pakistan need to take major steps to fix that.
 
It is unfortunately true that Hindu refugees from Pakistan are not provided much assistance and support in their settlement once they cross over.

You can always make the case that there are millions of people living in the same/worse conditions in India as these refugees, but I don't mind if we put them in front of the line in this case. They are holdouts from 1947 who for whatever reason couldn't/didn't migrate to India. They have already suffered a lifetime of systemic discrimination and living in the shadow of a majoritarian Islam-prescribed society. Imagine what a miserable life they must be living that they were forced to leave their business/work/home and seek shelter in another country. I think we can afford them some special attention when they come to India.

I personally can't but I've been suggesting some of single Indian friends to actively seek Pakistani Hindu/Sikh girls. Though this happens sporadically, Indians should start marrying across the border more to strengthen ties with the Pakistani Hindu/Sikh communities and indirectly start looking out for them.
 
Persecuted minorities could be in crores: Amit Shah

31,313 ‘minority’ migrants from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan who were granted long-term visa on grounds of “religious persecution” would be the immediate beneficiaries of the proposed amendments

Read more at:
http://m.timesofindia.com/articlesh...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

‘Now we can fly like a bird’, say Pakistani Hindus in Delhi

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...d-say-pakistani-hindus-in-delhi/1791293/lite/

Bjp will get new group of loyal supporters
 
From what I got from the article, he faced religious discrimination in Pakistan and in India that discrimination changed from religious to caste based. But unfortunately discrimination exists in both countries.

Instead of playing political games, we need to admit minorities are mistreated in both countries and both India/Pakistan need to take major steps to fix that.

India has most lower caste people than upper castes. It's not like that. It's just they are poor. Nothing else
 
Sad to see this tribal mentality, where the much larger tribe inflicts pain and cruelty on the much smaller tribe.
This mentality is the mentality i use to see with my fellow cavemen, tens of thousands of years ago, it is so heartbreaking that man in the 21st century with all his advancements in science and technology, is still no better than a caveman.
 
“There are around 100-150 Pakistani Hindu families in Jalandhar, some of them extended. All of them are from Bhagat community and hail from Sialkot district,” Kumar said. They are also expecting that after getting Indian citizenship they would get benefit of reservation as Bhagats are a scheduled caste community in India.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.time...ms-are-made-easy/amp_articleshow/72465054.cms

Now I think they won't complain about caste based discrimination
 
Can you pls give figure. How many families from India apply citizenship or seeking shelter to Pakistan?
What? No!
My post is about people leaving one country to go to another country, thinking it is better and when getting there, realising that it is no better.
 
What? No!
My post is about people leaving one country to go to another country, thinking it is better and when getting there, realising that it is no better.

Grass is very much greener on Indian side. You just have to have some money. Rest your religion, color, caste etc doesn't matter at all. You would have all the power. If you are poor, then doesn't matter, if you are lower caste or upper caste or shia or sunni or sikh or Christian or buddhists or jains etc etc, you would get messed up.
 
“There are around 100-150 Pakistani Hindu families in Jalandhar, some of them extended. All of them are from Bhagat community and hail from Sialkot district,” Kumar said. They are also expecting that after getting Indian citizenship they would get benefit of reservation as Bhagats are a scheduled caste community in India.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.time...ms-are-made-easy/amp_articleshow/72465054.cms

Now I think they won't complain about caste based discrimination
Big deal, the majority of my family atr from jalandhar and now live in lahore., fasilabad and gujranwala. People move, thats life.
 
Grass is very much greener on Indian side. You just have to have some money. Rest your religion, color, caste etc doesn't matter at all. You would have all the power. If you are poor, then doesn't matter, if you are lower caste or upper caste or shia or sunni or sikh or Christian or buddhists or jains etc etc, you would get messed up.
You sound really stupid.
Every country is good if you have money.
A country is not judged by how it treats its wealthy, but how it treats it poor and minorities. And india treats its muslims and dalits appalingly!
By the way, you are talking to the wrong person, both my parents were born in india, after partition and lived there in their childhood and got the heck out of there, and we were rich - rajputs, so your arguments are completely WRONG!
 
You sound really stupid.
Every country is good if you have money.
A country is not judged by how it treats its wealthy, but how it treats it poor and minorities. And india treats its muslims and dalits appalingly!
By the way, you are talking to the wrong person, both my parents were born in india, after partition and lived there in their childhood and got the heck out of there, and we were rich - rajputs, so your arguments are completely WRONG!

Nope you dnt get treated equally everywhere in the world. There are countries who treat their own religion as first citizens and rest as second and then citizens of those countries try to seek refugee status in other countries. There are indeed examples of this in today practical world
 
Nope you dnt get treated equally everywhere in the world. There are countries who treat their own religion as first citizens and rest as second and then citizens of those countries try to seek refugee status in other countries. There are indeed examples of this in today practical world
Do you read posts before you reply or are you in your own little world?
I cleary stated a country gets judged on how it treats its poor and minorities.
You are just babbling rubbish back to me.
 
Modi govt wants to give Pakistani Hindus Indian citizenship, but not visa for last rites

New Delhi: With the Citizenship Amendment Act in place, the Narendra Modi government is granting citizenship to Pakistani Hindus who have been residing in India since before 2014. But at the same time, it has been denying entry to several Pakistani Hindus living across the border who have been waiting for years to scatter the ashes of their dead in the holy Ganga.

Every year, Pakistani Hindus’ visa applications seeking to conduct last rites in holy places like Haridwar have been rejected — some of them multiple times — either without assigning a reason or because of inadequate documentation.

The requirements
To secure a visa for performing the last rights, Pakistani Hindus must furnish the death certificate of the person whose ashes are to be immersed, the applicant’s national ID card, a copy of an electricity bill, as well as a polio certificate.

If the applicants want to visit Haridwar to scatter the ashes, the Indian government also requires them to have a letter of sponsorship from someone residing in Haridwar. The letter needs to be signed by an appropriate state authority such as the police or a headmaster of a government college.

“Often, the visas are rejected with no reason, even if all the documents are furnished. Families feel obligated to go to Haridwar, as it is often the last wish of the person whose ashes they want to scatter. This problem has persisted over the years, but there’s still no proper system in place to address it,” Sunny Ghansham, chairman of a standing committee on minority rights of the Federation of Pakistan Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FPCCI), told ThePrint over phone from across the border.

Ghansham said he is in the process of collecting data of the number of families whose visas have been rejected. “There are at least 200 to 250 that have been affected, and this is in recent years. Some leave their ashes in a Hindu temple in Karachi, and they have been lying there for even longer,” he said.

“On the one hand, India is passing the CAA, but on the other, there is no simplified process for those who want to come for this one purpose. It’s a must for every Hindu,” Ghansham added.

The Indian High Commission said in a statement that it “actively facilitates visa applications of all Pakistani applicants, including members of the Hindu community who want to travel to Haridwar to perform last rites of family members”. It added that it “already issues visas to relatives who want to travel to India for performing last rites” if they have the correct documents.

Hundreds of urns at one temple
The Panchmukhi Hanuman Temple in Karachi is home to hundreds of urns storing the ashes of the dead — some of them have been there since before 2010.

“Most people leave their ashes here because securing a visa is impossible. Either they don’t have the requisite documents, or the visas are repeatedly rejected. They leave them here with the hope that they will go across the border someday,” Ramnath Maharaj, priest at the temple, told ThePrint over the phone.

Maharaj managed to secure a visa last in 2016-17 for religious purposes, but brought 160 urns with him. Before that, he had got a visa in 2011 and managed to carry 135 urns.

“Every two to three years, people deposit about 180 to 200 urns with us in the temple,” he said, adding “I’ve never got the visa in one go”.

Karachi, in Sindh, is home to about 2.5 lakh Hindus. It houses the maximum number of Hindus of any Pakistani province, according to the Pakistan Hindu Council, which estimates the total Hindu population to be about 80 lakh.

Santosh Kumar Katiyar, an accountant living in Karachi, said he had applied for visa twice since his grandfather died in 2017, with all the requisite documents, but they were both rejected without reason.

“We have had to move the ashes around — first we kept them in a local temple in our village in Larkana. Then we moved them to Panchmukhi,” he said.

“Everyone who has migrated to India [and is now eligible for citizenship] came from here. We are neighbours, and both should be treated with consideration,” Katiyar added.

A long-drawn issue
This problem was first highlighted in 2005. Urns, some from the Panchmukhi Temple itself, had been lying in a dilapidated store room for decades after independence. In 2009, India approved a spate of visas for Hindus across the border to visit Haridwar.

However, according to the latest annual report by the Ministry of Home Affairs, the number of visitors from Pakistan has seen a sharp decline — the number stood at 57,283 for the whole of 2018 and the first three months of 2019, as against 1,04,720 in 2016 and 67,350 in 2017.

Wash Dev, a rice trader also living in Karachi, said his visa had been rejected three times between 2018 and 2020, despite telling the High Commission the purpose of travel and providing every document needed.

“My sister-in-law passed away on 1 January 2018, and she wished for her ashes to be immersed in the Ganga. But every time I applied, it was rejected with no reason, and I was simply told to try again,” Dev said. “They have strange and specific requirements for the visa, like a letter signed by a police officer from Haridwar. I did all of this, but it was still rejected.”

Dev’s visa application was finally accepted after his fourth try on 1 February 2020, but he said this happened only after some media houses highlighted his case the previous month.

Dev said he found it “hurtful” that India rushed to give citizenship to Pakistani Hindus living in India, but made securing a visa for those across the border so difficult.

“I feel bad because our religious community has such a deep relationship with India. We are one. All of the people who live there have migrated from here,” he said.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepri...nship-but-not-visa-for-last-rites/375709/?amp
 
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