What's new

Hostility towards Pakistan quickest route to national unity in India, says Obama

Vegitto1

First Class Captain
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Runs
5,892
Post of the Week
2
WASHINGTON: The quickest route to national unity in India is “expressing hostility toward Pakistan,” says Barack Obama, America’s first coloured president in his new book, “A Promised Land.”

The book, released worldwide on Nov 17, also includes a pen portrait of former Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh, whom he first met at the 2009 G20 summit in Pittsburgh.

When Obama met Singh again during his visit to India in November 2010, Singh told him that he feared “rising anti-Muslim sentiment had strengthened the influence of Hindu nationalist BJP”, the main opposition party at the time.

Obama described Singh as “a gentle, soft-spoken economist” who engineered the modernisation of his nation’s economy.

Obama quoted Singh as saying that the “call of religious and ethnic solidarity can be intoxicating” for politicians, particularly in a country like India, which was still racked by poverty, wealth inequality, violence and ultra-nationalism.

Obama noted that “many Indians (took) great pride in the knowledge that their country had developed a nuclear weapons programme to match Pakistan’s, untroubled by the fact that a single miscalculation by either side could risk regional annihilation.”

“Violence, both public and private, remained an all-too-pervasive part of Indian life. Expressing hostility towards Pakistan was still the quickest route to national unity,” Obama wrote.

“Most of all, India’s politics still rev*olved around religion, clan, and caste.”

But Obama also acknowledged that “in many respects, modern-day India counted as a success story, having survived repeated changeovers in government, bitter feuds within political parties, various armed separatist movements, and all manner of corruption scandals”.

But “despite its genuine economic progress, … India remained a chaotic and impoverished place: largely divided by religion and caste, captive to the whims of corrupt local officials and power brokers, hamstrung by a parochial bureaucracy that was resistant to change,” he added.

“A Promised Land” ends with the US raid on the Bin Laden compound in 2011 and, therefore, does not include the current Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi.

Read: Breaking news of Osama raid to Pakistan was easier than thought, says Obama

Commenting on the prevalence of violence in India, Obama wondered if “violence, greed, corruption, nationalism, racism, and religious intolerance” were “too strong for any democracy to permanently contain”.

The former US leader noted that those who believed in violence “see*m**ed to lie in wait everywhere, ready to resurface whenever growth rates stal*led or demographics changed or a charismatic leader chose to ride the wave of people’s fears and resentments”.

Obama also praised Singh’s ascent to prime minister’s office, noting that he was from an “often persecuted Sikh religious minority.”

He claimed that “more than one political observer” told him that Sonia Gandhi had “chosen Singh precisely because as an elderly Sikh with no national political base, he posed no threat to her 40-year-old son, Rahul, whom she was grooming to take over the Congress Party.”

“Somehow, I was doubtful” if Rahul Gandhi was capable of “preserving the Congress Party’s dominance over the divisive nationalism touted by the BJP,” he wrote.

Obama described Rahul Gandhi as “smart and earnest,” with good looks” but noted that “there was a nervous, unformed quality about him, as if he were a student who’d done the coursework and was eager to impress the teacher but deep down lacked either the aptitude or the passion to master the subject.”

Obama wrote that India had “always held a special place in my imagination.” Analysing this fascination, he said: “Maybe it was its sheer size, with one-sixth of the world’s population, an estimated two thousand distinct ethnic groups, and more than seven hundred languages spoken.”

But “more than anything, though, my fascination with India had to do with Mahatma Gandhi. Along with Lincoln, King, and Mandela, Gandhi had profoundly influenced my thinking,” he added.

Obama mentioned that his Indian and Pakistani college friends, who “taught me to cook dahl and keema and turned me on to Bollywood movies” also stirred his interest in India.

But this, he wrote, could not hide the huge issues India faced as the world’s second most populated country.

“Across the country, millions continued to live in squalor, trapped in sunbaked villages or labyrinthine slums, even as the titans of Indian industry enjoyed lifestyles that the rajas and moguls of old would have envied,” he writes in his new memoir.

“Violence, both public and private, remained an all-too-pervasive part of Indian life.”

Published in Dawn, November 19th, 2020
https://www.dawn.com/news/1591177/h...t-route-to-national-unity-in-india-says-obama
--------------------------------------

Is he suggesting that Pakistan's nuclear programme is superior to India's? Hence Indians feel proud that they can match Pakistan's programme.

Going to start reading my copy over the weekend.
 
But this, he wrote, could not hide the huge issues India faced as the world’s second most populated country.

“Across the country, millions continued to live in squalor, trapped in sunbaked villages or labyrinthine slums, even as the titans of Indian industry enjoyed lifestyles that the rajas and moguls of old would have envied,” he writes in his new memoir.

“Violence, both public and private, remained an all-too-pervasive part of Indian life.”


I think that last part of the article reveals the real tragedy and incompetence in India, and why so many still throw cruel barbs about it being a jumped up third world country.
 
How sad do you have to be to have hate as your main unifying factor.

as an Indian i can tell you its totally true
BJP & RSS destroyed our credibility our democracy .. you are either with em or against em no in between .
whoever is against their bakht ideology then we are labelled as a Pakistani
 
Is he suggesting that Pakistan's nuclear programme is superior to India's? Hence Indians feel proud that they can match Pakistan's programme..

This observation by Obama makes no sense given that India went nuclear about 25 years before Pakistan did.
 
We all know this but for the few Pakistani leftists who need western validation, this is news.
 
It’s a good distraction.

The rich Indians who own the many news networks in India have realised this, just keep mentioning how bad Pakistan is then you don’t have to talk about the problems at home like poverty, etc.

Modi has been a complete disaster for India (yes I wasn’t a fan before he got elected)since he has gotten into power but didn’t realise he would be this incompetent, he seems more of a puppet for his party than an actual leader making his own decisions.

From the outside looking Congress seems a very weak opposition and probably will not get into power for a good decade
 
I think the mumbai attacks and the subsequent dud reaction from Singh changed Indian politics forever. A few terrorists were able to hold India's financial capital hostage for days and the Indian ego was hurt forever.

Indian economy will grow post covid. They are also poised to take advantage of the next revolution 4.0 and people will be dragged out of poverty in millions. Indians have confidence in their ability and the world economists concur.

The biggest thorn in India's flesh was always Pakistan. Punching above it's weight in every arena and challenging India on every forum was almost taken for granted by Indians due to decades of passive leadership. That had to change at some point. It must give Indians massive satisfaction when they see Pak helpless in the Kashmir or the FATF or any other trap that India set for them.

Modi changed that. He was probably the first to challenge Pakistan and succeed. Yes, the jet crashed and India apparently bombed the trees. However, Indian jets entered Pak airspace and that was enough of a warning. It emboldened India on the Kashmir issue and the rest is history. They can have many differences internally but Indians and Pakistanis will always stand united if it's against their rival.
 
How sad do you have to be to have hate as your main unifying factor.

Hate can not exist without love. Bad can not exist without good.

This hatred and unification only proves how we love each other as Indian and want to protect our nation from alien entities.
 
Hate can not exist without love. Bad can not exist without good.

This hatred and unification only proves how we love each other as Indian and want to protect our nation from alien entities.

I am sorry but your post reeks of brainwashing. Do you really think India is some sort of pure good and Pakistan is some dark evil entity lol?


Also hate crimes against Muslims seem to be surging in India, so much for loving each other as Indians. Or do Muslims not count as Indian? The hate for Pakistan seems to turning into hate for anything Muslim.

https://time.com/5617161/india-religious-hate-crimes-modi/
 
I am sorry but your post reeks of brainwashing. Do you really think India is some sort of pure good and Pakistan is some dark evil entity lol?


Also hate crimes against Muslims seem to be surging in India, so much for loving each other as Indians. Or do Muslims not count as Indian? The hate for Pakistan seems to turning into hate for anything Muslim.

https://time.com/5617161/india-religious-hate-crimes-modi/

Your point has no relevance with my post.

A, B, C are three entities where A and B are united against C. That doesn't mean A and B doesn't have conflicts among themselves. It's just that, even amidst the internal conflicts, when it is against C; both A and B will stand up together. CAA has already demonstrated that.
 
Last edited:
hate crimes against Muslims seem to be surging in India, so much for loving each other as Indians. Or do Muslims not count as Indian? The hate for Pakistan seems to turning into hate for anything Muslim.

https://time.com/5617161/india-religious-hate-crimes-modi/
rightwing hindus are very much interested in turning india into a hindu pakistan,the process has already started in some states and will continue till indian muslims become subservient.
 
This is nothing new. It may be news but only to a certain section of Pakistani and Western liberals who believe that the idea of India being hostile to Pakistan is purely a figment of the Pakistani security establishment's imagination. But the fact is that the late BJP politician and former Indian finance minister Arun Jaitley admitted to US State Dept. officials as early as 2001 that the BJP needed to play the anti-Pakistan card to maintain its support base in north India.

That's why the Agra Summit was torpedoed by Advani and his fellow hard-liners despite the best efforts of Jaswant Singh. That's why Jaswant Singh was thrown out of the BJP when he wrote a book on Jinnah in which he claimed Jinnah was secular politician, while blaming Nehru for partition. That's why the BJP continues to use anti-Pakistan rhetoric whenever it is campaigning for an election. The only thing that has changed is how much that anti-Pakistan sentiment has escalated in Indian society.
 
And so it should. If you can't unite with your countrymen against a common enemy, then you have water running in your arteries, not blood.
 
I think the mumbai attacks and the subsequent dud reaction from Singh changed Indian politics forever. A few terrorists were able to hold India's financial capital hostage for days and the Indian ego was hurt forever.

Indian economy will grow post covid. They are also poised to take advantage of the next revolution 4.0 and people will be dragged out of poverty in millions. Indians have confidence in their ability and the world economists concur.

The biggest thorn in India's flesh was always Pakistan. Punching above it's weight in every arena and challenging India on every forum was almost taken for granted by Indians due to decades of passive leadership. That had to change at some point. It must give Indians massive satisfaction when they see Pak helpless in the Kashmir or the FATF or any other trap that India set for them.

Modi changed that. He was probably the first to challenge Pakistan and succeed. Yes, the jet crashed and India apparently bombed the trees. However, Indian jets entered Pak airspace and that was enough of a warning. It emboldened India on the Kashmir issue and the rest is history. They can have many differences internally but Indians and Pakistanis will always stand united if it's against their rival.

India will grow undoubtedly in the coming years but a transformation like that of China is unlikely possibly, ever. Reason being that India functions on a deeply predatory kind of capitalism. There is very little regulation as opposed to a country like China where practically everything regulated. The state does not carry the same power to control everything like it does in China. Corporate power wields significant influence in India. It also doesn't help that the world sees India as a giant market for consumer goods, and that some of India's biggest exports are raw materials. It will take decades for India to transition into a core economy. And while India will grow in the coming years economically I don't see how the crippling poverty and inequality won't simply get worse.
 
Last edited:
And the sky is blue. Perhaps Obama should rename his book “A Promised Land for Stating the Obvious”.

Hostility towards one another is a key element of the foreign policy of both countries.

The difference between the two countries is that the foreign policy of India is dictated by the federal government while the foreign policy of Pakistan is dictated by the military establishment.

The Pakistani military needs hostility with India to ensure that it remains the central power in the country.

The day the Kashmir issue is resolved and Pakistan and India become brothers in arms would be the day the military of Pakistan loses its domestic control.

That is why the PM of Pakistan, regardless of who he is, has no choice but to adopt a hostile attitude towards India and read from the script that his boss in GHQ provides him.

Nawaz Sharif tried to betray his boss briefly (Modi ka yaar) and it was one of the reasons why he was ousted under the pretext of Panama Leaks.

PTI supporters talk about “same page”, but the page number is decided by the GHQ and not the PTI government. The day Imran decided to extend an olive branch to India would be the day his demise would start.

Those who say that Imran extended his hand early in his tenure but Modi showed no interest in forging cordial relationships. However, what people fail to see is that the establishment of Pakistan wants to dictate India and want things to be done on their terms.

This is not cordial relationship. This again is an illustration of hostile attitude. The establishment of Pakistan knows that India will never cede control of J&K because it will severe weaken India’s image to severely dent their national pride.

Similarly, if Pakistan gives up on J&K, it will hurt its own image and national pride and whoever takes this decision will become public enemy #1 in the country. He will basically be labeled a traitor.

More than anything, this is a battle of ego between the two states and thus, this to and fro acts of hostility will probably last forever.
 
Those who say that Imran extended his hand early in his tenure but Modi showed no interest in forging cordial relationships. However, what people fail to see is that the establishment of Pakistan wants to dictate India and want things to be done on their terms.

This is not cordial relationship. This again is an illustration of hostile attitude. The establishment of Pakistan knows that India will never cede control of J&K because it will severe weaken India’s image to severely dent their national pride.

Similarly, if Pakistan gives up on J&K, it will hurt its own image and national pride and whoever takes this decision will become public enemy #1 in the country. He will basically be labeled a traitor.

More than anything, this is a battle of ego between the two states and thus, this to and fro acts of hostility will probably last forever.

By and large this is a defeatist post with this part having little to no sense of context or history.
 
And the sky is blue. Perhaps Obama should rename his book “A Promised Land for Stating the Obvious”.

Hostility towards one another is a key element of the foreign policy of both countries.

The difference between the two countries is that the foreign policy of India is dictated by the federal government while the foreign policy of Pakistan is dictated by the military establishment.

The Pakistani military needs hostility with India to ensure that it remains the central power in the country.

The day the Kashmir issue is resolved and Pakistan and India become brothers in arms would be the day the military of Pakistan loses its domestic control.

That is why the PM of Pakistan, regardless of who he is, has no choice but to adopt a hostile attitude towards India and read from the script that his boss in GHQ provides him.

Nawaz Sharif tried to betray his boss briefly (Modi ka yaar) and it was one of the reasons why he was ousted under the pretext of Panama Leaks.

PTI supporters talk about “same page”, but the page number is decided by the GHQ and not the PTI government. The day Imran decided to extend an olive branch to India would be the day his demise would start.

Those who say that Imran extended his hand early in his tenure but Modi showed no interest in forging cordial relationships. However, what people fail to see is that the establishment of Pakistan wants to dictate India and want things to be done on their terms.

This is not cordial relationship. This again is an illustration of hostile attitude. The establishment of Pakistan knows that India will never cede control of J&K because it will severe weaken India’s image to severely dent their national pride.

Similarly, if Pakistan gives up on J&K, it will hurt its own image and national pride and whoever takes this decision will become public enemy #1 in the country. He will basically be labeled a traitor.

More than anything, this is a battle of ego between the two states and thus, this to and fro acts of hostility will probably last forever.


That narrative is one pushed by India for sure, but the military will always be important in Pakistan regardless of hostility or friendship with India, simply because India does not want Pakistan to exist in the long term.
 
India will grow undoubtedly in the coming years but a transformation like that of China is unlikely possibly, ever. Reason being that India functions on a deeply predatory kind of capitalism. There is very little regulation as opposed to a country like China where practically everything regulated. The state does not carry the same power to control everything like it does in China. Corporate power wields significant influence in India. It also doesn't help that the world sees India as a giant market for consumer goods, and that some of India's biggest exports are raw materials. It will take decades for India to transition into a core economy. And while India will grow in the coming years economically I don't see how the crippling poverty and inequality won't simply get worse.

India's top exports are refined petroleum, engineering goods, pharmaceuticals, diamonds and gems, organic chemicals . None of these classify as 'raw material'.

And while there is a lot of poverty and inequality in India, it hasn't 'crippled' the economy. Hundreds of millions have been lifted out of it in the recent decades and the country has grown to be one of the world's top economies.
 
By and large this is a defeatist post with this part having little to no sense of context or history.

Maybe it is defeatist from your perspective but from what I see, there is no victory or defeat here.

The people of Kashmir also need to understand that Pakistan will never cede control of AJK and grant them independence irrespective of what we say at this point.

So even if the people of J&K are liberated, it doesn’t solve anything unless they undermine their own ideology and let AJK be a part of Pakistan.

The Pakistani state will not shy away from using force to keep AJK in its control. What we did in East Pakistan will never be forgotten no matter how much we try to whitewash it and downplay its magnitude.

If it comes to down to that, Pakistan will not hesitate in extending the same treatment to separatists in AJK regardless of the fake humanity card that we play these days.

After all, the Pakistani military is responsible for the worst genocide in modern subcontinent history. Not Indian military.
 
That narrative is one pushed by India for sure, but the military will always be important in Pakistan regardless of hostility or friendship with India, simply because India does not want Pakistan to exist in the long term.

That is because of the Pakistani narrative is shaped by the military establishment. The untimely death of M. Jinnah one year after the creation of Pakistan created a power vaccum that was quickly occupied by the military, and that is the root-cause of the international and external instability and chaos that Pakistan has been through.

The Muslim League was more of an ideology than an organized political body. They did not have a proper succession plan, and the military were established as the central power 8 years before Pakistan managed to write its constitution, a constitution that didn’t even last for 2 years before the military rubbished it.

The Pakistani narrative is that we are a peace loving, friendly nation surrounded by hungry hounds and that is why the military of Pakistan has to serve as our guardian angel and control every major aspect of the nation in order to maintain security and thwart foreign threats.

The reality however couldn’t be further from the truth. Pakistan itself is the biggest trouble-maker in south Asian geopolitics.
 
That is because of the Pakistani narrative is shaped by the military establishment. The untimely death of M. Jinnah one year after the creation of Pakistan created a power vaccum that was quickly occupied by the military, and that is the root-cause of the international and external instability and chaos that Pakistan has been through.

The Muslim League was more of an ideology than an organized political body. They did not have a proper succession plan, and the military were established as the central power 8 years before Pakistan managed to write its constitution, a constitution that didn’t even last for 2 years before the military rubbished it.

The Pakistani narrative is that we are a peace loving, friendly nation surrounded by hungry hounds and that is why the military of Pakistan has to serve as our guardian angel and control every major aspect of the nation in order to maintain security and thwart foreign threats.

The reality however couldn’t be further from the truth. Pakistan itself is the biggest trouble-maker in south Asian geopolitics.

The military control in Pakistan was established early on as you correctly say, as a young nation it was susceptible to hostile intent from India where there was always this idea that Pakistan was land which was stolen from them. Even western nations have rules in place for martial law in certain circumstances where the fabric of the country is under threat.

As Pakistan has matured, we have seen democracy established over the last couple of decades, although it is still somewhat fragile. The amount of critical press we have seen, often sponsored by hostile neighbouring countries, would never have been tolerated in a dictatorship.
 
Maybe it is defeatist from your perspective but from what I see, there is no victory or defeat here.

The people of Kashmir also need to understand that Pakistan will never cede control of AJK and grant them independence irrespective of what we say at this point.

So even if the people of J&K are liberated, it doesn’t solve anything unless they undermine their own ideology and let AJK be a part of Pakistan.

The Pakistani state will not shy away from using force to keep AJK in its control. What we did in East Pakistan will never be forgotten no matter how much we try to whitewash it and downplay its magnitude.

If it comes to down to that, Pakistan will not hesitate in extending the same treatment to separatists in AJK regardless of the fake humanity card that we play these days.

After all, the Pakistani military is responsible for the worst genocide in modern subcontinent history. Not Indian military.

My response was for what you wrote in your earlier post. Especially when you said that Pakistan wants to dictate to India.

Opinion in Kashmir is divided. Why are you ruling out that people might choose to go with Pakistan? Have you fallen prey to the Indian propaganda or are you one of those whose opinion is shaped by what they read on social media? There are way too many factors at play here anyway and let me assure you, from whatever i have read from you on Kashmir, your views are quite uninformed and your knowledge of the subject quite superficial. And that's quite surprising from you because generally your opinions are well formed. I guess we also have to give credit to Indian propaganda machinery here as they have been able to popularize their version of history better than Pakistan and Kashmiris so far.

Have you heard about the muslim genocide in Jammu committed by hindus with the help of Indian elements? In terms of impact, thats the worst genocide in the modern subcontinent history because it ethnically cleansed jammu muslims and changed the demography from majority to a minority. It was that horrific and its impact is felt by us to this very day.
 
Modi has been a complete disaster for India (yes I wasn’t a fan before he got elected)since he has gotten into power but didn’t realise he would be this incompetent, he seems more of a puppet for his party than an actual leader making his own decisions.
Only thing he is good at is winning elections for his party by polarizing & fooling electorate & fanning communal flames by his actions. He has nothing to do with good governance & getting India rid of its perennial problems. Him being a total illiterate has a lot to do with his incompetence in governance.
 
Only thing he is good at is winning elections for his party by polarizing & fooling electorate & fanning communal flames by his actions. He has nothing to do with good governance & getting India rid of its perennial problems. Him being a total illiterate has a lot to do with his incompetence in governance.
Whats the solution? Give alternative of BJP.
 
WASHINGTON: The quickest route to national unity in India is “expressing hostility toward Pakistan,” says Barack Obama, America’s first coloured president in his new book, “A Promised Land.”

The book, released worldwide on Nov 17, also includes a pen portrait of former Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh, whom he first met at the 2009 G20 summit in Pittsburgh.

When Obama met Singh again during his visit to India in November 2010, Singh told him that he feared “rising anti-Muslim sentiment had strengthened the influence of Hindu nationalist BJP”, the main opposition party at the time.

Obama described Singh as “a gentle, soft-spoken economist” who engineered the modernisation of his nation’s economy.

Obama quoted Singh as saying that the “call of religious and ethnic solidarity can be intoxicating” for politicians, particularly in a country like India, which was still racked by poverty, wealth inequality, violence and ultra-nationalism.

Obama noted that “many Indians (took) great pride in the knowledge that their country had developed a nuclear weapons programme to match Pakistan’s, untroubled by the fact that a single miscalculation by either side could risk regional annihilation.”

“Violence, both public and private, remained an all-too-pervasive part of Indian life. Expressing hostility towards Pakistan was still the quickest route to national unity,” Obama wrote.

“Most of all, India’s politics still rev*olved around religion, clan, and caste.”

But Obama also acknowledged that “in many respects, modern-day India counted as a success story, having survived repeated changeovers in government, bitter feuds within political parties, various armed separatist movements, and all manner of corruption scandals”.

But “despite its genuine economic progress, … India remained a chaotic and impoverished place: largely divided by religion and caste, captive to the whims of corrupt local officials and power brokers, hamstrung by a parochial bureaucracy that was resistant to change,” he added.

“A Promised Land” ends with the US raid on the Bin Laden compound in 2011 and, therefore, does not include the current Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi.

Read: Breaking news of Osama raid to Pakistan was easier than thought, says Obama

Commenting on the prevalence of violence in India, Obama wondered if “violence, greed, corruption, nationalism, racism, and religious intolerance” were “too strong for any democracy to permanently contain”.

The former US leader noted that those who believed in violence “see*m**ed to lie in wait everywhere, ready to resurface whenever growth rates stal*led or demographics changed or a charismatic leader chose to ride the wave of people’s fears and resentments”.

Obama also praised Singh’s ascent to prime minister’s office, noting that he was from an “often persecuted Sikh religious minority.”

He claimed that “more than one political observer” told him that Sonia Gandhi had “chosen Singh precisely because as an elderly Sikh with no national political base, he posed no threat to her 40-year-old son, Rahul, whom she was grooming to take over the Congress Party.”

“Somehow, I was doubtful” if Rahul Gandhi was capable of “preserving the Congress Party’s dominance over the divisive nationalism touted by the BJP,” he wrote.

Obama described Rahul Gandhi as “smart and earnest,” with good looks” but noted that “there was a nervous, unformed quality about him, as if he were a student who’d done the coursework and was eager to impress the teacher but deep down lacked either the aptitude or the passion to master the subject.”

Obama wrote that India had “always held a special place in my imagination.” Analysing this fascination, he said: “Maybe it was its sheer size, with one-sixth of the world’s population, an estimated two thousand distinct ethnic groups, and more than seven hundred languages spoken.”

But “more than anything, though, my fascination with India had to do with Mahatma Gandhi. Along with Lincoln, King, and Mandela, Gandhi had profoundly influenced my thinking,” he added.

Obama mentioned that his Indian and Pakistani college friends, who “taught me to cook dahl and keema and turned me on to Bollywood movies” also stirred his interest in India.

But this, he wrote, could not hide the huge issues India faced as the world’s second most populated country.

“Across the country, millions continued to live in squalor, trapped in sunbaked villages or labyrinthine slums, even as the titans of Indian industry enjoyed lifestyles that the rajas and moguls of old would have envied,” he writes in his new memoir.

“Violence, both public and private, remained an all-too-pervasive part of Indian life.”

Published in Dawn, November 19th, 2020
https://www.dawn.com/news/1591177/h...t-route-to-national-unity-in-india-says-obama
--------------------------------------

Is he suggesting that Pakistan's nuclear programme is superior to India's? Hence Indians feel proud that they can match Pakistan's programme.

Going to start reading my copy over the weekend.
Pakistan is the main reason for India's existence as a country.
 
India's top exports are refined petroleum, engineering goods, pharmaceuticals, diamonds and gems, organic chemicals . None of these classify as 'raw material'.

And while there is a lot of poverty and inequality in India, it hasn't 'crippled' the economy. Hundreds of millions have been lifted out of it in the recent decades and the country has grown to be one of the world's top economies.

That may be true but that doesn't change the fact that raw materials still make up a major section of India's exports and if India really is a core economy then it would have had no problems joining the RCEP. Fact is India knows its cheaper and lower quality goods--as compared to those of China, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea--will be unable to compete.

Really? Because news reports say otherwise. The Indian economy is expected to contract by 10.6% in 2020-21 and I don't see how that won't have a crippling effect on the country's poor. It also goes without saying that India ranks poorly in Global Indexes for poverty, income inequality. In the Human Development Index, India is categorized in the medium development group which includes countries like; Bangladesh, Pakistan, Myanmar. And even there countries like Iraq and El Salvador which have been bereft with war and internal instability in recent years, outrank India. In the Global Hunger Index, India ranks only better than Afghanistan in the region.

All these markers show that India has incredible amounts of poverty, income inequality and horrible numbers in human development for a country that fashions itself as a rising great power. And while India may certainly have a large economy, in GDP per capita terms it is even poorer than Bangladesh.
 
Last edited:
That is because of the Pakistani narrative is shaped by the military establishment. The untimely death of M. Jinnah one year after the creation of Pakistan created a power vaccum that was quickly occupied by the military, and that is the root-cause of the international and external instability and chaos that Pakistan has been through.

The Muslim League was more of an ideology than an organized political body. They did not have a proper succession plan, and the military were established as the central power 8 years before Pakistan managed to write its constitution, a constitution that didn’t even last for 2 years before the military rubbished it.

The Pakistani narrative is that we are a peace loving, friendly nation surrounded by hungry hounds and that is why the military of Pakistan has to serve as our guardian angel and control every major aspect of the nation in order to maintain security and thwart foreign threats.

The reality however couldn’t be further from the truth. Pakistan itself is the biggest trouble-maker in south Asian geopolitics.

Say what you will about the military but it is the only thing holding Pakistan together. It is the only reasons why Pakistan didn't end up becoming a Syria or an Iraq 6 years ago.

It seems quite obvious to me that you are completely unaware of history and or maybe you have read it and simply saw what you wanted to see. Only that can explain your black and white perception.

Undoubtedly Pakistan has done many things to cause trouble but many of these were done in the national interest and there is nothing wrong with preserving the national security of the country. That doesn't change the fact that Afghanistan has regularly fermented problems for Pakistan that date all the way back to independence because they never accepted the Durand Line and preceded to first support the Pakhtunistan movement and then serve as a launch-pad for Indian-sponsored terrorism. India on the other hand wants to dominate South Asia like a hegemon and wants Pakistan to be its subservient subject like Maldives, Nepal, Bangladesh and to a great extent even, Sri Lanka. Pakistan is the only country that has in the past and continues to stand-up to Indian hegemony in the region and this is a pill that is very hard for New Delhi to swallow.

Ultimately, people such as yourself are welcome to say whatever they please. But as long as Pakistan is a functioning state it will continue to stand-up to Indian hegemony, as it should.
 
Last edited:
That is because of the Pakistani narrative is shaped by the military establishment. The untimely death of M. Jinnah one year after the creation of Pakistan created a power vaccum that was quickly occupied by the military, and that is the root-cause of the international and external instability and chaos that Pakistan has been through.

The Muslim League was more of an ideology than an organized political body. They did not have a proper succession plan, and the military were established as the central power 8 years before Pakistan managed to write its constitution, a constitution that didn’t even last for 2 years before the military rubbished it.

The Pakistani narrative is that we are a peace loving, friendly nation surrounded by hungry hounds and that is why the military of Pakistan has to serve as our guardian angel and control every major aspect of the nation in order to maintain security and thwart foreign threats.

The reality however couldn’t be further from the truth. Pakistan itself is the biggest trouble-maker in south Asian geopolitics.

You will be well-served to study history and the news. Since this perception you have of Pakistan being a bane of all troubles in South Asia is simply inaccurate.

Maybe start with history and read-up on how India funded and trained the LTTE who ended up causing a 30 year long civil war in Sri Lanka. Or how India, along with the US engineered a regime-change in Sri Lanka 5 years ago, something you could call an anomaly had India not engineered regime changes in other countries in the region like Maldives or Nepal in the past too. Speaking of Nepal, what of that economic blockade of Nepal that India instituted in 2015?

Anyone who still thinks India isn't a bully and the biggest trouble-maker in the region is simply uninformed.
 
Even brit Pakistanis have obsession with army. I wonder why this obsession exists.

Unlike Pakistan, in other countries, army isn't THE SYSTEM.

But it was you who was suggesting there is no alternative, in which case martial law is at least one you could consider. Let's face it, must be a pretty feeble democracy if the only credible govt is headed by a leader who thinks the elephant god Ganesh was proof of Indian invention of plastic surgery.
 
That may be true but that doesn't change the fact that raw materials still make up a major section of India's exports and if India really is a core economy then it would have had no problems joining the RCEP. Fact is India knows its cheaper and lower quality goods--as compared to those of China, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea--will be unable to compete.

Really? Because news reports say otherwise. The Indian economy is expected to contract by 10.6% in 2020-21 and I don't see how that won't have a crippling effect on the country's poor. It also goes without saying that India ranks poorly in Global Indexes for poverty, income inequality. In the Human Development Index, India is categorized in the medium development group which includes countries like; Bangladesh, Pakistan, Myanmar. And even there countries like Iraq and El Salvador which have been bereft with war and internal instability in recent years, outrank India. In the Global Hunger Index, India ranks only better than Afghanistan in the region.

All these markers show that India has incredible amounts of poverty, income inequality and horrible numbers in human development for a country that fashions itself as a rising great power. And while India may certainly have a large economy, in GDP per capita terms it is even poorer than Bangladesh.
Don't go by the rosy picture painted by bhakts about us and our future prospects.

By his illiterate acts of demonetization, haphazardly implemented GST regime & the lockdown, Feku has sent our economy into a deep cesspit. On top of that his divisive agenda which has divided India like never before. Longer he stays, more the idea of India suffers.
 
You will be well-served to study history and the news. Since this perception you have of Pakistan being a bane of all troubles in South Asia is simply inaccurate.

Maybe start with history and read-up on how India funded and trained the LTTE who ended up causing a 30 year long civil war in Sri Lanka. Or how India, along with the US engineered a regime-change in Sri Lanka 5 years ago, something you could call an anomaly had India not engineered regime changes in other countries in the region like Maldives or Nepal in the past too. Speaking of Nepal, what of that economic blockade of Nepal that India instituted in 2015?

Anyone who still thinks India isn't a bully and the biggest trouble-maker in the region is simply uninformed.

India banned LTTE long before Lanka did. India sent its army under an agreement with SL to tackle LTTE.

Regime change in SL and Maldives? If the people their voted out their govt in a free and fair election, its India's doing? Lol.

India closed its borders to Nepal because of the madhesi andolan.India didnot want the fire of that movement spreading to Bihar and UP.So now a sovereign nation can't even close its own borders?

Only pakistanis think India is the troublemaker while most of the world believes its one of India's neighbours.
 
That may be true but that doesn't change the fact that raw materials still make up a major section of India's exports and if India really is a core economy then it would have had no problems joining the RCEP. Fact is India knows its cheaper and lower quality goods--as compared to those of China, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea--will be unable to compete.

Really? Because news reports say otherwise. The Indian economy is expected to contract by 10.6% in 2020-21 and I don't see how that won't have a crippling effect on the country's poor. It also goes without saying that India ranks poorly in Global Indexes for poverty, income inequality. In the Human Development Index, India is categorized in the medium development group which includes countries like; Bangladesh, Pakistan, Myanmar. And even there countries like Iraq and El Salvador which have been bereft with war and internal instability in recent years, outrank India. In the Global Hunger Index, India ranks only better than Afghanistan in the region.

All these markers show that India has incredible amounts of poverty, income inequality and horrible numbers in human development for a country that fashions itself as a rising great power. And while India may certainly have a large economy, in GDP per capita terms it is even poorer than Bangladesh.

RCEP was not signed to keep the chinese out of the Indian market and keep chinese imports and investment regulated. Just like India didnt join BRI.


News reports also say that Indian economy is recovering faster than expected and likely grow at 8 Percent plus the next fiscal.

In GDP per capita terms in PPP India is ahead of pakistan as well as BD. India is also one of the fastest to lift people out of poverty in last two decades.

Every year 1000s of bangladeshis illegally migrate to India for better economic prospects.

For a country that was a colony for 150 years, to become a GDP that surpassed UK last year, is a big achievement.

While you diss India, even after 70 years pakistan has to run every few years to IMF to get a bailout. Pakistani exports are basically low cost stuff, with little contribution from hi tech organised industry. It is home to a large number of UN sanctioned terrorists and though the security situation has improved in last few years, pakistan remains one of the places where sporting teams think twice before touring. Money laundering and terror financing is rife in Pakistan.
 
Why Obama's statements might be relevant undeniably is because a lot of Indians claim that they don't care about Pakistan, that in general their country, their public doesn't care about Pakistan one bit. Obama's statements obviously directly contradict that claim. Not that Pakistanis needed Obama to tell us that. The way Indian media, their politicians, leadership and the online army talks about Pakistan, you'd have to have your head buried in the sand to think Indians don't care about Pakistan. To the contrary, they appear obsessed with Pakistan.
 
Why Obama's statements might be relevant undeniably is because a lot of Indians claim that they don't care about Pakistan, that in general their country, their public doesn't care about Pakistan one bit. Obama's statements obviously directly contradict that claim. Not that Pakistanis needed Obama to tell us that. The way Indian media, their politicians, leadership and the online army talks about Pakistan, you'd have to have your head buried in the sand to think Indians don't care about Pakistan. To the contrary, they appear obsessed with Pakistan.

have to laugh at this post. What is the contradiction in indians hating pakistan, and indians not caring about pakistan? You should refresh your meaning of the word "care".
 
Despite it democratic foundations and recent economic success, India has been so consumed by the emergence of Pakistan, that it has given way to simmering Hindu nationalism which is an ideology that has emerged from the traumatic experience of the continuous invasions and colonisation of the region and it impact on the dilution of Hindu culture and people.

India, through it secular and democratic framework post partition, was able to exercise these psychological demons associated with its history, but BJP/RSS leveraged these insecurities to build a political base and come into power.

Like Pakistan, who in its immaturity tried to leverage Islam to build national unity (especially post71) instead of building state institutions underpinned by provisional representation. A quick fix solution instead of investing in durable longer term solutions.

India is now falling down the same trap. The result of this will be a radicalised population base with disenfranchised minorities. The size of this problem is amplified by the sheer size of India, for example the muslim populations of India is the equivalent to that of Pakistan.

I am truly sad to see India today, India which should have been the beacon of democracy and secularism for it neighbours has itself become a victim to these dark tendencies.
 
That may be true but that doesn't change the fact that raw materials still make up a major section of India's exports and if India really is a core economy then it would have had no problems joining the RCEP. Fact is India knows its cheaper and lower quality goods--as compared to those of China, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea--will be unable to compete.
Learned economists attest to that.

https://theprint.in/opinion/not-sig...rs-atmanirbhar-an-admission-of-defeat/548907/

Not signing RCEP could be one of Modi’s biggest blunders, ‘atmanirbhar’ an admission of defeat

Can an economy of India’s size find enough export markets? There is only one way, in a world getting divided into trading blocs, and that is by joining one or more of the blocs. Which is why the decision to stay out of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) has the potential to become, in the long term, one of the Modi government’s major blunders.

It is said that the RCEP would have further de-industrialised India, as it already has been (apparently) by a few free trade arrangements — an assertion that many contest. Nor is the problem only China, because India has a trade deficit with virtually every country in the Asia-Pacific. The problem is a broader one, of India’s competitiveness, which has to be improved so that opening up leads to more benefits than costs, to industrialisation and not its opposite. And the goal should be to avoid getting shut out of the region that will account for the bulk of the global growth in the foreseeable future. Given the RCEP’s time-table of two decades, India would have time to get ready. If India still prefers atmanirbhar, it is an admission of defeat.
 
RCEP would’ve led to flood of imports into India. Reform is a better way to boost exports

RCEP is China-centric
The RCEP is seen to be China-centric, and is expected to elevate its economic and political influence in the region. India has an unfavourable trade deficit with China. While China’s share in India’s imports is roughly 14 per cent, India’s exports to China are a meagre 5 per cent of its exports to the rest of the world. The unfavourable trade balance is further compounded by the composition of exports and imports. While India’s exports to China mainly consist of primary products like ores, minerals and agro-chemicals, imports from China consist of high-value items like capital and manufactured goods like machinery and engineering goods. An FTA has the potential of giving disproportionate gains to China.

India’s exports to China are different from its exports to the rest of the world — 75 per cent of its export basket comprises manufactured goods, of which engineering goods’ share is 24 per cent.

Trade agreements are envisaged to promote bilateral trade, with both parties benefiting as a result of tariff elimination. With China, India’s trade seems to be skewed and may lead to a surge of imports into India.

Reducing the cost of doing business through infrastructure investment and improving the business environment holds the key for improving India’s export prospects. These reforms would ensure that India stands to gain in terms of greater market share from the various regional trade agreements.


https://theprint.in/ilanomics/rcep-...form-is-a-better-way-to-boost-exports/548051/
 
Last edited:
GDP is a measure always against finished goods. If country like india only exports raw materials and goods are manufactured in a different country like China, it does not add to GDP
With RCEP although there is 30% of world economy in trade guaranteed, participating countries need to be careful because China could have advantage disproportionately due to industries it possesses
 
This observation by Obama makes no sense given that India went nuclear about 25 years before Pakistan did.

Exactly what I was thinking. Just another book of garbage for quick sales.

Cant really go by your logic. Its like saying that i qualified to be an accountant in 2010 and you qualified in 2015, therefore I am better than you.

There is a lot more to being better than the number of years.
 
Just seen some news reports of people burning an effigy of Obama.

Seems his comments haven't gone down too well.
 
India will grow undoubtedly in the coming years but a transformation like that of China is unlikely possibly, ever. Reason being that India functions on a deeply predatory kind of capitalism. There is very little regulation as opposed to a country like China where practically everything regulated. The state does not carry the same power to control everything like it does in China. Corporate power wields significant influence in India. It also doesn't help that the world sees India as a giant market for consumer goods, and that some of India's biggest exports are raw materials. It will take decades for India to transition into a core economy. And while India will grow in the coming years economically I don't see how the crippling poverty and inequality won't simply get worse.

Indian can never match or even come close to China's growth. Chinese have found a sweet spot between communism and capitalism. Their iron will is backed by their political stability. When they want to move forward, they do. In democracies, it's usually 3 steps forward and two steps back.

What India can do and will do is grow it's middle class. There will always be inequality. It's India's least concern at this point. A billion middle class in ppp terms in 30 years will make India an economic power house. There will also be half a billion in poverty. With better education and infrastructure, people will be dragged out of poverty hundreds of thousands at a time and will take another half a century.
 
Learned economists attest to that.

https://theprint.in/opinion/not-sig...rs-atmanirbhar-an-admission-of-defeat/548907/

Not signing RCEP could be one of Modi’s biggest blunders, ‘atmanirbhar’ an admission of defeat

Can an economy of India’s size find enough export markets? There is only one way, in a world getting divided into trading blocs, and that is by joining one or more of the blocs. Which is why the decision to stay out of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) has the potential to become, in the long term, one of the Modi government’s major blunders.

It is said that the RCEP would have further de-industrialised India, as it already has been (apparently) by a few free trade arrangements — an assertion that many contest. Nor is the problem only China, because India has a trade deficit with virtually every country in the Asia-Pacific. The problem is a broader one, of India’s competitiveness, which has to be improved so that opening up leads to more benefits than costs, to industrialisation and not its opposite. And the goal should be to avoid getting shut out of the region that will account for the bulk of the global growth in the foreseeable future. Given the RCEP’s time-table of two decades, India would have time to get ready. If India still prefers atmanirbhar, it is an admission of defeat.

Low costanufacturing is a dud's game. It's fascinating that India moved majority of its middle class into services from agriculture bypassing the low cost manufacturing.

India should focus on high growth and high margin specialized manufacturing instead of investments I to low cost manufacturing. People need to be dragged out of agriculture and should be moved into services.
 
Cant really go by your logic. Its like saying that i qualified to be an accountant in 2010 and you qualified in 2015, therefore I am better than you.

There is a lot more to being better than the number of years.


The public has no details about the nuclear programs of various countries, the only metric we can go by is which countries started early.
 
RCEP was not signed to keep the chinese out of the Indian market and keep chinese imports and investment regulated. Just like India didnt join BRI.


News reports also say that Indian economy is recovering faster than expected and likely grow at 8 Percent plus the next fiscal.

In GDP per capita terms in PPP India is ahead of pakistan as well as BD. India is also one of the fastest to lift people out of poverty in last two decades.

Every year 1000s of bangladeshis illegally migrate to India for better economic prospects.

For a country that was a colony for 150 years, to become a GDP that surpassed UK last year, is a big achievement.

While you diss India, even after 70 years pakistan has to run every few years to IMF to get a bailout. Pakistani exports are basically low cost stuff, with little contribution from hi tech organised industry. It is home to a large number of UN sanctioned terrorists and though the security situation has improved in last few years, pakistan remains one of the places where sporting teams think twice before touring. Money laundering and terror financing is rife in Pakistan.

Lol no need to get triggered. All my statements are based on facts and if you think I am dissing India you need to introspect a little more.

First off, you are wrong. Bangladesh's GDP per capita has surpassed India. You need to read a little more news and be better informed. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/10/20/india-falls-behind-bangladesh-gdp/

Second off, India may have eclipsed the UK in regards to size but the UK is still a much, much richer country than India and that is unlikely to change anytime in the near future. UK also has things like universal health care that India can only dream of ever having. If you think this is an achievement considering the size of your country's population (which is roughly the same as China's), and the vast resources at India's disposal then that tells me all that needs to be said about where China is where it is today, and where India is where it is.

Also, I don't know why you are deflecting from India's very real problems and bringing Pakistan into this. Everyone knows Pakistan's economy is in shambles, and certainly nobody here denies that. Pakistan does not claim to be "a superpower by 2050 either", nor does Pakistan have a population of over a billion. And while there is great poverty in Pakistan among the lower classes, its nothing close to the size and magnitude as that of India.

On the issues of terrorism, money laundering and terror financing you have no right to claim the moral high ground since India does the exact same thing by sponsoring terrorism from Afghanistan and don't even try to deny it since Indian scholars like Avinash Paliwal have mapped out with great detail how India has gone about doing so in the past.

On terror financing and money laundering, a recent report by (FinCen) Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, an agency within the US Treasury Department, charged with combatting money laundering, terrorism financing and financial fraud implicated 44 Indian banks and financial institutions, with hundreds of transactions flagged as “top-secret suspicious-activity-reports”.

Sure, India may be winning the war of perception, and for that credit goes to them. India as a giant consumer market provides more benefits to the Western world than an economically unstable country like Pakistan. On top of that, India is the US's strategic partner and so naturally global news coverage is much more favorable to India. But deep down, we both know the reality. And only difference is that you are trying to deny it whereas, I am calling it like it is.
 
India banned LTTE long before Lanka did. India sent its army under an agreement with SL to tackle LTTE.

Regime change in SL and Maldives? If the people their voted out their govt in a free and fair election, its India's doing? Lol.

India closed its borders to Nepal because of the madhesi andolan.India didnot want the fire of that movement spreading to Bihar and UP.So now a sovereign nation can't even close its own borders?

Only pakistanis think India is the troublemaker while most of the world believes its one of India's neighbours.

LOL. You are not telling the entire story. India trained created and trained the LTTE in a bid to cultivate a Tamil fifth column in Sri Lanka and use them as leverage in their relationship with Sri Lanka. But as is the case with almost all non-state actors, the Tigers went rogue and started ethnic killings in Sri Lanka. India, realizing that it had created a Frankenstein's monster sent a Peace Keeping Force to Sri Lanka and had its own little Vietnam moment when the Tigers turned on their own creators sent the Indians packing in humiliation. It was a result of this that Rajiv Gandhi was assassinated. But ultimately the greatest damage was caused to Sri Lanka who had to endure a brutal 30 year long Civil War, all because of India.

Lol another oversimplification. It is an open secret that India engineered the ouster of Rajapaksa in 2015. Former Indian diplomat MK Bhadrakumar has admitted so a number of times on his Indian Punchline blog. Now that Rajapaksa and his brother are back in power, New Delhi and Washington are sweating at the prospect of them getting even closer to China.

India has always bullied it neighbors and its relationship today with all of them is a testament of that. Even India's greatest ally in the region Bangladesh is having its people being referred to as "termites" by India's Home Minister. Countries like Nepal, which have rarely challenged India fearing wrath from New Delhi have openly dissented in recent months by publishing maps that challenge India's perceived territorial integrity.
 
Don't go by the rosy picture painted by bhakts about us and our future prospects.

By his illiterate acts of demonetization, haphazardly implemented GST regime & the lockdown, Feku has sent our economy into a deep cesspit. On top of that his divisive agenda which has divided India like never before. Longer he stays, more the idea of India suffers.

Merely pointed out some basic facts which seemed to trigger [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]

And I didn't even mention India's atrocious handling of the Coronavirus crisis which is rivalled only by the US and a few other countries.

For the record, it doesn't affect me in any way what India does or doesn't do with its economy and country. I'm just echoing the views of people with credibility. If someone wants to live in a world of denial that's their problem.
 
Indian can never match or even come close to China's growth. Chinese have found a sweet spot between communism and capitalism. Their iron will is backed by their political stability. When they want to move forward, they do. In democracies, it's usually 3 steps forward and two steps back.

What India can do and will do is grow it's middle class. There will always be inequality. It's India's least concern at this point. A billion middle class in ppp terms in 30 years will make India an economic power house. There will also be half a billion in poverty. With better education and infrastructure, people will be dragged out of poverty hundreds of thousands at a time and will take another half a century.

No disagreements there. India's growing middle-class is undoubtedly its biggest asset. And I agree with you on the other things aswell. That said, by the time all this happens who knows what will be the state of our planet and particularly our region because of climate related issues? Certainly India, in my opinion will have to contend with a major refugee crisis from neighboring countries like Bangladesh and Maldives so I think that aspect and the effect it will have on India, and what will by then be a burgeoning population density cannot be discounted either.
 
Just seen some news reports of people burning an effigy of Obama.

Seems his comments haven't gone down too well.

Burning effigies of someone is something that I think, has become part and parcel of South Asia at this point. People here don't even need an excuse to rush to the streets and burn effigies.

That said, the comments made by Obama in reference to Rahul Gandhi did not go down well with INC politicans.
 
LOL. You are not telling the entire story. India trained created and trained the LTTE in a bid to cultivate a Tamil fifth column in Sri Lanka and use them as leverage in their relationship with Sri Lanka. But as is the case with almost all non-state actors, the Tigers went rogue and started ethnic killings in Sri Lanka. India, realizing that it had created a Frankenstein's monster sent a Peace Keeping Force to Sri Lanka and had its own little Vietnam moment when the Tigers turned on their own creators sent the Indians packing in humiliation. It was a result of this that Rajiv Gandhi was assassinated. But ultimately the greatest damage was caused to Sri Lanka who had to endure a brutal 30 year long Civil War, all because of India.

Lol another oversimplification. It is an open secret that India engineered the ouster of Rajapaksa in 2015. Former Indian diplomat MK Bhadrakumar has admitted so a number of times on his Indian Punchline blog. Now that Rajapaksa and his brother are back in power, New Delhi and Washington are sweating at the prospect of them getting even closer to China.

India has always bullied it neighbors and its relationship today with all of them is a testament of that. Even India's greatest ally in the region Bangladesh is having its people being referred to as "termites" by India's Home Minister. Countries like Nepal, which have rarely challenged India fearing wrath from New Delhi have openly dissented in recent months by publishing maps that challenge India's perceived territorial integrity.

1. India banned Ltte even when it was not banned by Lankans. Indian Tamils had relations with lankan Tamils and 100s of 1000s of lankan tamils started pouring into India due to persecution. It was estimated that around 400k lankan tamils were refugees in India. These lankan tamils supported Ltte.

2.MK Bhadrakumar retired in 2002. He is a ex diplomat and his blogs are his personal opinion. Anyways, how did India made the Lankans vote according to India's preference? Mind control aerosol? Imperius curse? Lol at India and US sweating. SL is few kms from India and few 100km from US bases. While China lies 1000s of km away. The logistics dont support China.

3. Again its the opinion of a Pakistani, which is not going to be favourable towards India. There are a millions of illegal BDeshis living in India, draining our resources, changing demographics, creating law and order issues. No country will tolerate it. BDeshis are free to come via the legal way.

Nepal has stopped using the new map, once it realised that its interests flows from India and not china. Now someone like you will blame India if nepalese oust the current PM Oli via elections.
 
Lol no need to get triggered. All my statements are based on facts and if you think I am dissing India you need to introspect a little more.

First off, you are wrong. Bangladesh's GDP per capita has surpassed India. You need to read a little more news and be better informed. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/10/20/india-falls-behind-bangladesh-gdp/

Second off, India may have eclipsed the UK in regards to size but the UK is still a much, much richer country than India and that is unlikely to change anytime in the near future. UK also has things like universal health care that India can only dream of ever having. If you think this is an achievement considering the size of your country's population (which is roughly the same as China's), and the vast resources at India's disposal then that tells me all that needs to be said about where China is where it is today, and where India is where it is.

Also, I don't know why you are deflecting from India's very real problems and bringing Pakistan into this. Everyone knows Pakistan's economy is in shambles, and certainly nobody here denies that. Pakistan does not claim to be "a superpower by 2050 either", nor does Pakistan have a population of over a billion. And while there is great poverty in Pakistan among the lower classes, its nothing close to the size and magnitude as that of India.

On the issues of terrorism, money laundering and terror financing you have no right to claim the moral high ground since India does the exact same thing by sponsoring terrorism from Afghanistan and don't even try to deny it since Indian scholars like Avinash Paliwal have mapped out with great detail how India has gone about doing so in the past.

On terror financing and money laundering, a recent report by (FinCen) Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, an agency within the US Treasury Department, charged with combatting money laundering, terrorism financing and financial fraud implicated 44 Indian banks and financial institutions, with hundreds of transactions flagged as “top-secret suspicious-activity-reports”.

Sure, India may be winning the war of perception, and for that credit goes to them. India as a giant consumer market provides more benefits to the Western world than an economically unstable country like Pakistan. On top of that, India is the US's strategic partner and so naturally global news coverage is much more favorable to India. But deep down, we both know the reality. And only difference is that you are trying to deny it whereas, I am calling it like it is.



You need to read rather than advise others. In my post i talk about GDP PPP terms.

From the link you posted.


"However, international estimates of Bangladesh’s population differ by several million and of India’s by more than 50 million. And unlike the Indian rupee, the Bangladeshi taka does not trade freely and is widely believed to be overvalued. The IMF itself does not primarily make international comparisons based on exchange rates (often called “nominal” comparisons), preferring instead to use purchasing power parities (PPPs), which adjust for the cost of living in a country. Evaluated on a PPP basis, India’s GDP per capita of $6,284 is still well above Bangladesh’s $5,139. And even in nominal terms, Bangladesh didn’t actually overtake India; "

India's overall GDP has surpassed UK, while most of the other colonies are still dependent on aid. As an Indian, i dont want to be China. Dont want to have authoritarian regime with little FoE. There is a cost for democracy, FOE etc and we are gladly paying it.

When Pakistanis talk about economy of other nations sometimes its necessary to show them the mirror. Its amusing how they point fingers at others while their own economy is in shambles.


Paliwal's claim isnt the gospel truth. He isnt the authority to decide who is a terrorist and what is terrorism. His claims in his book are his unverified opinion. India has diplomatic relations with Afghanistan, provides them aid and trains its military or other personnel. Its upto Afghanistan how they use that aid.

The 5 banks that appeared most often on FinCen report are HSBC, JP Morgan,StanChart, BNY Mellon, Deustche Bank. ICIJ which published these leaked SARS report said this. Ofcourse a large number of banks around the world reported these SARS, they themselves are not necessarily proof of any wrongdoing and FinCen in its statement said

"The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) is aware that various media outlets intend to publish a series of articles based on unlawfully disclosed Suspicious Activity Reports (SARs), as well as other sensitive government documents, from several years ago. As FinCEN has stated previously, the unauthorized disclosure of SARs is a crime that can impact the national security of the United States, compromise law enforcement investigations, and threaten the safety and security of the institutions and individuals who file such reports. FinCEN has referred this matter to the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Inspector General."

FinCen itself is saying these media reports are based on illegally obtained documents from earlier years.

India has a positive perception because we dont use terrorism as a means statecraft.
 
You need to read rather than advise others. In my post i talk about GDP PPP terms.

From the link you posted.


"However, international estimates of Bangladesh’s population differ by several million and of India’s by more than 50 million. And unlike the Indian rupee, the Bangladeshi taka does not trade freely and is widely believed to be overvalued. The IMF itself does not primarily make international comparisons based on exchange rates (often called “nominal” comparisons), preferring instead to use purchasing power parities (PPPs), which adjust for the cost of living in a country. Evaluated on a PPP basis, India’s GDP per capita of $6,284 is still well above Bangladesh’s $5,139. And even in nominal terms, Bangladesh didn’t actually overtake India; "

India's overall GDP has surpassed UK, while most of the other colonies are still dependent on aid. As an Indian, i dont want to be China. Dont want to have authoritarian regime with little FoE. There is a cost for democracy, FOE etc and we are gladly paying it.

When Pakistanis talk about economy of other nations sometimes its necessary to show them the mirror. Its amusing how they point fingers at others while their own economy is in shambles.


Paliwal's claim isnt the gospel truth. He isnt the authority to decide who is a terrorist and what is terrorism. His claims in his book are his unverified opinion. India has diplomatic relations with Afghanistan, provides them aid and trains its military or other personnel. Its upto Afghanistan how they use that aid.

The 5 banks that appeared most often on FinCen report are HSBC, JP Morgan,StanChart, BNY Mellon, Deustche Bank. ICIJ which published these leaked SARS report said this. Ofcourse a large number of banks around the world reported these SARS, they themselves are not necessarily proof of any wrongdoing and FinCen in its statement said

"The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) is aware that various media outlets intend to publish a series of articles based on unlawfully disclosed Suspicious Activity Reports (SARs), as well as other sensitive government documents, from several years ago. As FinCEN has stated previously, the unauthorized disclosure of SARs is a crime that can impact the national security of the United States, compromise law enforcement investigations, and threaten the safety and security of the institutions and individuals who file such reports. FinCEN has referred this matter to the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Inspector General."

FinCen itself is saying these media reports are based on illegally obtained documents from earlier years.

India has a positive perception because we dont use terrorism as a means statecraft.


Hilarious. So everything you do not agree with is "someone else's opinion" regardless of how deeply it is supported by facts. Your response to the markers for hunger, income inequality and HD were "we now have a larger economy than our former colonial masters". And even if you dismiss the IMF's numbers its has been patently obvious that Bangladesh's GDP per capita has been projected to eclipse India's by 2021 and this is something that even Indian news publications have admitted.

The funniest thing for me in your entire post however is the manner in which you have dismissed Paliwal's claims. Even I have to admit that the man is a scholar and his book My Enemy's Enemy is the work of rigorous research in which he has quoted statements from RAW spymasters to other members of India's national security apparatus. To dismiss his claims completely is hilarious to say the least and I'm sorry but I simply cannot take you seriously after that.

Because it shows me that you are a nationalist blinded by objective truths. The very fact that you think that India has any moral superiority in this keeping in mind its history of supporting terrorism in Sri Lanka and Afghanistan is laughable to say the least. Someone like you deserves to live in an echo chamber and read and listen to things that reinforce his beliefs rather than challenge them.
 
1. India banned Ltte even when it was not banned by Lankans. Indian Tamils had relations with lankan Tamils and 100s of 1000s of lankan tamils started pouring into India due to persecution. It was estimated that around 400k lankan tamils were refugees in India. These lankan tamils supported Ltte.

2.MK Bhadrakumar retired in 2002. He is a ex diplomat and his blogs are his personal opinion. Anyways, how did India made the Lankans vote according to India's preference? Mind control aerosol? Imperius curse? Lol at India and US sweating. SL is few kms from India and few 100km from US bases. While China lies 1000s of km away. The logistics dont support China.

3. Again its the opinion of a Pakistani, which is not going to be favourable towards India. There are a millions of illegal BDeshis living in India, draining our resources, changing demographics, creating law and order issues. No country will tolerate it. BDeshis are free to come via the legal way.

Nepal has stopped using the new map, once it realised that its interests flows from India and not china. Now someone like you will blame India if nepalese oust the current PM Oli via elections.

1. Clever deflecting on your part but are you really going to deny that RAW did not personally oversee the training of LTTE militants in training camps in Tamil Nadu? And are you really going to deny that India's covert policy of creating and supporting these militants did not backfire badly? Banning a terrorist organization has little relevance beyond a token gesture. There are hundreds of banned terrorist organizations in the world that continue to operate unaffected.

2. Are you serious? RAW worked with opposition parties and brought them on the same page to engineer Rajapaksa's defeat. Rajapaksa had been in power since 2005 and would have won again if he actually had any chance to form his government in the first place. The plans were in motion long before the election when the RAW station chief in Colombo was accused of meeting with opposition parties, not long after which he was expelled. Clearly, India's policy did not work as Rajapaksa and his brother came back to power last year with an even bigger mandate and they have already started reviewing infrastructure projects okayed under the pro-West, pro-India Sirisena/Wickremesinghe regime.

Sri Lanka has immense geopolitical significance for China, who want it to be another stop on their Belt and Road Initiative. That is why the Chinese have invested so much in Sri Lankan infrastructure projects in recent years, and why Hambanatota port is important to them. It's surprising how unaware of all this you are since it is India's perception that they are being surrounded by a string of pearls (Bangladesh, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Pakistan), all countries where China has made significant investments in infrastructure projects and ports.

And if Washington really was as unconcerned as you say by creeping Chinese influence, which is a very real thing then Mike Pompeo wouldn't have been in Sri Lanka a few weeks ago, trying to make the Rajapaksa's understand that being in the New Delhi-Washington camp was in their best interests.

3. Yes, so the solution to that is call them "termites" and call for them to be "thrown in the Bay of Bengal". Funny thing is that there are many countries in the world that have problems with refugees and immigrants, but I can't remember the last time I heard the Pakistani interior minister calling for Afghans to be thrown in the Arabian Sea, or the Turkish interior minister calling for Syrians to be thrown in the Black Sea. The fact that you are defending/justifying such a derogatory statement speaks to your character.

Regarding Nepal, while its obvious Nepal does not have any capacity to stand up to New Delhi's bullying, and will not either because of the strong cultural links and geographical connection to India; one thing that has become patently obvious is that China has established a significant foothold in Nepal and India is no longer the only player there. Nepal's FDI comprises of 88% Chinese investment. India's investment in Nepal is even less than that of the UK according to official Nepalese government sources. So if you think this kind of investment won't have atleast some role in subverting India's gargantuan influence in Nepal then I can only tell you to wait and see.
 
Back
Top