How are Pakistanis seen around the world?

[Saj]

So, as the title suggests, how are Pakistanis seen around the world?

As a Pakistani based in Pakistan what are your thoughts on Pakistanis outside of Pakistan?

Overseas Pakistanis, what are your thoughts on Pakistanis within Pakistan?

What about non-Pakistanis what are your opinions of Pakistanis?

 

[Stewie]

Edit:
As an overseas Pakistani, I think people in Pakistan are very prone to being driven by conspiracy theories about the west and they seem to think the whole world is against them. Just my opinion.


From a Pakistani based in the USA POV, most of my American friends view us as filthy rich and successful because of so many of us in medicine or business or IT and general STEM fields.

Most people who have shared their views with me, of course are those who are friendly with me so naturally they will only give generally positive feedback.

Let’s just say down south where I have lived most of my life, they have a more favorable view of us vs latinos who they think mostly snuck in from across the border to take advantage of the so called welfare system here.

 

[Syed1]

I showed my Canadian friends pictures of my wedding with sherwani and wife in bridal dress etc. They thought I was some sort of a prince because in their opinion the wedding was so elaborate. In reality it was a simple wedding by Pakistani standards.

Atleast in Canada alot of the folks are intrigued by Pakistan as we haven't marketed ourselves that well..some mistake us for like Middle East (they were surprised that we have women without burqas). Others think of us just an extension of India with the namaste and the head nodding. In reality we are neither of those things.

 

[Bilal_103]

I showed my Canadian friends pictures of my wedding with sherwani and wife in bridal dress etc. They thought I was some sort of a prince because in their opinion the wedding was so elaborate. In reality it was a simple wedding by Pakistani standards.

Atleast in Canada alot of the folks are intrigued by Pakistan as we haven't marketed ourselves that well..some mistake us for like Middle East (they were surprised that we have women without burqas). Others think of us just an extension of India with the namaste and the head nodding. In reality we are neither of those things.

This is true. Most Canadian's think of Pakistan as a middle eastern country for some reason.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Pakistanis in Pakistan are very street smart and a lot of them have to be just to get a meal. They work 8-8 and struggle with inflation
The rich ones seem to get richer

Pakistanis abroad have too much time on their hands and are not quite sure what to do with it
Pakistani youngsters abroad do become more Arab than Arabs

 

[sweep_shot]

Interesting thread.

As a Bangladeshi man, I have seen three types of people from Bangladesh. One type dislikes Pakistanis. One type doesn't care. Another type loves Pakistanis due to Islamic brotherhood.

Just my observation.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistanis are disliked in Britain and also somewhat admired. Because the British were used to subservient Indians during their colonial period they are somewhat shocked by the brash and unapologetic attitude they see in Pakistanis. At the same time they recognise the same qualities in themselves and that is where the sense of threat kicks in. A wolf won't take much notice of a fox in it's vicinity, but if a tiger turns up the alarm bells start ringing.

 

[Nadeemp]

I think in the USA pakistanis/Indians are viewed in a favorable light. Most are highly educated. Pakistanis in Spain ( my second home) were viewed in positive light. Now are viewed very negatively. Pakistanis in Pakistan are detached from ground realities. Live in a conspiracy themed world and have a very high opinion of Pakistan and it’s capabilities

 

[Dios]

Unfortunately, not very favourably in the UK as per a recent survey:

A recent survey looking into attitudes towards immigrants of different origins has thrown up some interesting figures.

YouGov asked 1,668 UK adults whether immigrants from various parts of the world had made a positive or negative contribution to British life.

While immigrants from India received a healthy positive figure of +25, their South Asian counterparts are in negative territory. Bangladeshis have a net figure of -3. Pakistanis fare even worse at -4. Net figures are calculated by taking away the figure for “negative contribution” from the figure for “positive contribution”.

As to what may explain this negative view:

On the face of it, the British public appears to have a broadly negative attitude towards the issue, with only 31% overall saying that migrants from Pakistan are integrating either ‘fairly’ or ‘very’ well into British society, versus 54% saying that integration is going ‘not very’ or ‘not at all’ well.

But the same numbers also highlight a bigger challenge, which is that beyond the terms of personal interaction, the Pakistani community has a long way to go in fostering a broader perception of successful integration.

Pakistanis ranked lower for integration than other groups

Comparisons with other minorities examined in the same study demonstrate that Britons tend to rank Pakistanis lower down the integration hierarchy than other groups such as Eastern Europeans or those of African background

 

[KingKhanWC]

I see Pakistanis in Pakistan as mostly hard working people. Good manners, hospitable people. Airport staff were annoying as wanting bribe money but overall Pakistani in Pakistan are a civilised bunch.

The So called liberals, athiest Pakistanis who hate on their own nation, some even calling on India to bomb schoolchildren , I find very dangerous and treasanous. These lot should be rounded up , the type who help nations like India in their state sponsered terrorism.

 

[Rana]

Long. Deep question.

Gender dynamics involved as well.

 

[Nadeemp]

Unfortunately, not very favourably in the UK as per a recent survey:


As to what may explain this negative view:

Integration is a problem for spanish pakistanis also.

 

[Giannis]

From my experience Americans usually have good things to say, a lot of people over here say we're humble, hospitable, warm and friendly, smart, educated and hardworking and some think we're kinda exotic. I've never got a bad response for being Pakistani but then again I think it's cause of the Pakistani-American community and our successes as a community.

 

[Stewie]

I think in the USA pakistanis/Indians are viewed in a favorable light. Most are highly educated. Pakistanis in Spain ( my second home) were viewed in positive light. Now are viewed very negatively. Pakistanis in Pakistan are detached from ground realities. Live in a conspiracy themed world and have a very high opinion of Pakistan and it’s capabilities

It’s amazing how our views seem to align so much, perhaps our age, connections to Texas, possibly moving around in the same social circles, but I agree with you 100%.

In the USA the Pakistani community is relatively small compared to say UK and most of us here are successful entrepreneurs or highly qualified and educated, so yeah you might see a negative reaction once in a while but overall I think we are admired because of what we have achieved in a foreign country by dint of hard work. That’s one quality often associated with us, hard work. And I wish our people worked as hard in Pakistan as they tend to do here in the states.

The other part where you and I said the same thing is about people back home believing everything they see on social media .. all conspiracy theories are treated as matters of fact. My interaction with friends and family back home proves that strange trend all the time.

I guess as Americans, when we study or work here, we are regularly taught to question authority and never take anything for granted and to do research and make up our own minds.
I am afraid that trait is missing in the last few generations of people back home. Even when I was going to school and college in Pakistan, I think back to those days and remember how we were supposed to believe everything about zia was good on PTV news or whatever we were taught in schools was the absolute truth, taught never ever to question our elders and teachers even if they had the wrong information or were telling tall tales. We were raised to be followers and believers.. never to question the narrative and ever to go against the grain.

When I do it now, I am told I am a brain washed American. Hahaha

 

[ElRaja]

how i view pakistanis in pakistan: decent people driven into short termism due to poverty and a lack of opportunities. attracted to black and white world view of good and evil, us and them, haves and have nots. strongly anti-individualism.

how i think ethnic pakistanis are viewed in britiain: generally with ambivalent acceptance imo, although certain parts of the media have tried extremely hard to link us to grooming, honour killings, terrorism, in more integrated communities people just know how media play things.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

As a British Pakistani, I view Pakistani nationals as messy i.e they’ll throw rubbish outside literally anywhere. In the house they’ll throw used tissue paper on the floor and expect the maids to pick it up (I’ve witnessed this in many different household in Pakistan). They put the blame on the government for all the kachra but yet it’s the people that make the mess cos they’re too lazy to walk to a bin. You could put thousands of bins in 1 street but they still won’t be used.

They like to take short cuts in every aspect of life, We’ve all seen how they use roundabouts, they don’t go around it, they cut in front of it to save fuel.

They think they’re cool with their long hair and trimmed sides, posing for the camera whilst pretending to be on the phone.

Can’t follow any kind of law of the land.

They seem to think that if a transgender woman begging for money makes a dua for you to get boy at birth then it’ll come true.

They have a habit of staring at women and touching their bums. It’s happened to many of my female relatives there.

As an overseas Pakistani I like to get their perspectives of politics in Pakistan, most of the ones I ask in Karachi say they support PPP, I ask why and they say ‘awein’. They don’t care about the corrupt politicians but they still complain about no electricity, no water etc.

 

[Third_Umpire]

In the US, where I’ve spent a lot of time, Pakistanis are a hard working, educated and successful bunch. The average American sees us in the same category as Indians. The more sophisticated American will point out that we have great bbq and cook with more meat than Indians, because he/she has been to a Pakistani restaurant or has a Pakistani friend. We are a well integrated minority in American society.

Different story in the UK, though based on my living in London for 2 years. Much less favorable impression of Pakistanis there, but then it’s a much less integrate society. And I am secular, live a progressive lifestyle. Can’t imagine what all the bros asking for Shariah face, or maybe they ask for Shariah because if facing lifelong discrimination in places far less cosmopolitan than London

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistanis are known throughout the world for their dishonesty and unprofessionalism.

Moreover, Pakistan itself is one of the more poorly reputed countries in the world. Our image is pretty much equal to Afghanistan. We do not have a shred of credibility.

If I was in the fielding of hiring people in a foreign country, I would never hire a patriotic Pakistani.

By patriotic Pakistani, I mean those who do not accept the shortcomings of their beloved nation and are always looking for excuses and justifications, and are always blaming others for their problems.

Moreover, these people also poke their noses in other countries’ business and criticize them while overlooking the actions of their own state. Their victim mentality and penchant for conspiracies are second to none.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Having said all that, Pakistani’s who move to the UK with nothing in their pockets are probably the most hard working people out there. They can work 7 days a week, they don’t do holidays, they leave their parents back home and send their hard earned money back to them. In a country that’s completely different to where they’ve been brought up in, they’ve done well.

 

[Stewie]

Pakistanis are known throughout the world for their dishonesty and unprofessionalism.

Moreover, Pakistan itself is one of the more poorly reputed countries in the world. Our image is pretty much equal to Afghanistan. We do not have a shred of credibility.

If I was in the fielding of hiring people in a foreign country, I would never hire a patriotic Pakistani.

By patriotic Pakistani, I mean those who do not accept the shortcomings of their beloved nation and are always looking for excuses and justifications, and are always blaming others for their problems.

Moreover, these people also poke their noses in other countries’ business and criticize them while overlooking the actions of their own state. Their victim mentality and penchant for conspiracies are second to none.

Ill beg to differ. This view doesn’t hold true for majority of the circles I move in in the US.

 

[Caved12]

Pakistanis are known throughout the world for their dishonesty and unprofessionalism.

Moreover, Pakistan itself is one of the more poorly reputed countries in the world. Our image is pretty much equal to Afghanistan. We do not have a shred of credibility.

If I was in the fielding of hiring people in a foreign country, I would never hire a patriotic Pakistani.

By patriotic Pakistani, I mean those who do not accept the shortcomings of their beloved nation and are always looking for excuses and justifications, and are always blaming others for their problems.

Moreover, these people also poke their noses in other countries’ business and criticize them while overlooking the actions of their own state. Their victim mentality and penchant for conspiracies are second to none.

I second this!

Mamoon, I thought you were going to write a book in this thread

 

[TSA321]

Unfortunately, not very favourably in the UK as per a recent survey:


As to what may explain this negative view:

Still, they view Pakistanis as entrepreneurial and less of a drain on the economy compared to certain other groups.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...6/24/british-attitudes-its-pakistani-diaspora

To be honest I would've expected the overall perception to be much more negative given what happened in Rotherham, Rochdale and many other towns and how much this has appeared on the news. I think if these grooming scandals never happened then Pakistanis would probably be in the net positive figures category, maybe at about +5.

 

[Mamoon]

Ill beg to differ. This view doesn’t hold true for majority of the circles I move in in the US.

Pakistani Americans generally enjoy a better reputation compared other Pakistani diaspora or the real Pakistanis (the ones living in Pakistan).

British Pakistanis have to be on the lowest rung. They left their pinds generations ago but the pind mentality never left them.

 

[TSA321]

Pakistani Americans generally enjoy a better reputation compared other Pakistani diaspora or the real Pakistanis (the ones living in Pakistan).

British Pakistanis have to be on the lowest rung. They left their pinds generations ago but the pind mentality never left them.

"Lowest rung" yet the most politically successful/powerful when compared to other diaspora communities.

 

[Stewie]

Pakistani Americans generally enjoy a better reputation compared other Pakistani diaspora or the real Pakistanis (the ones living in Pakistan).

British Pakistanis have to be on the lowest rung. They left their pinds generations ago but the pind mentality never left them.

Thanks for clarifying .. you did paint is all with a wide brush there. But I do tend to agree with this statement of yours in some sense.

 

[Mamoon]

Thanks for clarifying .. you did paint is all with a wide brush there. But I do tend to agree with this statement of yours in some sense.

Well I still am, I have no time for patriotic Pakistanis, and if I was in the business of hiring people I wouldn’t hire patriotic Pakistani Americans either.

But if you put a gun to my head I will go for Pakistani Americans over British Pakistanis every single time.

 

[Third_Umpire]

This thread is a layup for Mamoon Bhai. Take it away bro!

 

[Stewie]

Well I still am, I have no time for patriotic Pakistanis, and if I was in the business of hiring people I wouldn’t hire patriotic Pakistani Americans either.

But if you put a gun to my head I will go for Pakistani Americans over British Pakistanis every single time.

Patriotism has nothing to do with it. Stereotyping does. But we are all guilty of it, aren’t we? There is some truth to it looking at certain demographics though. Acknowledging that has nothing to do with patriotism or patriotic pakistanis quite frankly.

 

[Nadeemp]

It’s amazing how our views seem to align so much, perhaps our age, connections to Texas, possibly moving around in the same social circles, but I agree with you 100%.

In the USA the Pakistani community is relatively small compared to say UK and most of us here are successful entrepreneurs or highly qualified and educated, so yeah you might see a negative reaction once in a while but overall I think we are admired because of what we have achieved in a foreign country by dint of hard work. That’s one quality often associated with us, hard work. And I wish our people worked as hard in Pakistan as they tend to do here in the states.

The other part where you and I said the same thing is about people back home believing everything they see on social media .. all conspiracy theories are treated as matters of fact. My interaction with friends and family back home proves that strange trend all the time.

I guess as Americans, when we study or work here, we are regularly taught to question authority and never take anything for granted and to do research and make up our own minds.
I am afraid that trait is missing in the last few generations of people back home. Even when I was going to school and college in Pakistan, I think back to those days and remember how we were supposed to believe everything about zia was good on PTV news or whatever we were taught in schools was the absolute truth, taught never ever to question our elders and teachers even if they had the wrong information or were telling tall tales. We were raised to be followers and believers.. never to question the narrative and ever to go against the grain.

When I do it now, I am told I am a brain washed American. Hahaha

How old are you? I am 46

 

[Stewie]

How old are you? I am 46

44

 

[saeedhk]

Pakistanis are known throughout the world for their dishonesty. They are known to be involved in social welfare scams, insurance scams, bogus workplace injury claims and their high involvement in criminal activities. It may sound harsh but it is the truth.

On the global stage, Pakistan is known as a poor, violent and extremist nation.

 

[CricketCartoons]

44

That reminds me, pakistanis are also known for being younger than their actual age. You must be 48.

 

[Nadeemp]

That reminds me, pakistanis are also known for being younger than their actual age. You must be 48.

Why u say that?

 

[Greenstorm]

It’s amazing how our views seem to align so much, perhaps our age, connections to Texas, possibly moving around in the same social circles, but I agree with you 100%.

In the USA the Pakistani community is relatively small compared to say UK and most of us here are successful entrepreneurs or highly qualified and educated, so yeah you might see a negative reaction once in a while but overall I think we are admired because of what we have achieved in a foreign country by dint of hard work. That’s one quality often associated with us, hard work. And I wish our people worked as hard in Pakistan as they tend to do here in the states.

The other part where you and I said the same thing is about people back home believing everything they see on social media .. all conspiracy theories are treated as matters of fact. My interaction with friends and family back home proves that strange trend all the time.

I guess as Americans, when we study or work here, we are regularly taught to question authority and never take anything for granted and to do research and make up our own minds.
I am afraid that trait is missing in the last few generations of people back home. Even when I was going to school and college in Pakistan, I think back to those days and remember how we were supposed to believe everything about zia was good on PTV news or whatever we were taught in schools was the absolute truth, taught never ever to question our elders and teachers even if they had the wrong information or were telling tall tales. We were raised to be followers and believers.. never to question the narrative and ever to go against the grain.

When I do it now, I am told I am a brain washed American. Hahaha

I am sure an average American believes in as many conspiracies as an average Pakistani if not more. From my observation, an average American is usually either ignorant or has wrong perceptions about other cultures and countries.
This is not Zia's Pakistan anymore and younger generation is actually quite critical of literally everything.

 

[Saj]

Unfortunately my dealings with most Pakistan-based Pakistanis is dishonesty, very money-orientated people, always looking for short-cuts in life.

Maybe I've not been very lucky with who I've come across so far.

 

[Mamoon]

Unfortunately my dealings with most Pakistan-based Pakistanis is dishonesty, very money-orientated people, always looking for short-cuts in life.

Maybe I've not been very lucky with who I've come across so far.

Well you didn’t encounter a few bad apples. That is how majority of us are.

 

[Technics 1210]

In the UK, Pakistanis lead in 2 things:

1. Political asylum. When there's a government change in Pakistan the HO devote another team for an influx of applicants who flee their country after the brown envelopes stop.

2. Fake doctors. Pretend they are qualified through fake degrees, flee Pakistan, for the sake of making money, not saving lives.

Take away the fake doctors and political asylum seekers, and the perception of Pakistan is just fine.

 

[Local.Dada]

In the US they don’t see any difference between an Indian and a Pakistani.

However when it comes to countries themselves India and Pakistan they might have different stereotypes good and bad both.

 

[PakPremi]

Pakistanis are known throughout the world for their dishonesty and unprofessionalism.

Moreover, Pakistan itself is one of the more poorly reputed countries in the world. Our image is pretty much equal to Afghanistan. We do not have a shred of credibility.

If I was in the fielding of hiring people in a foreign country, I would never hire a patriotic Pakistani.

By patriotic Pakistani, I mean those who do not accept the shortcomings of their beloved nation and are always looking for excuses and justifications, and are always blaming others for their problems.

Moreover, these people also poke their noses in other countries’ business and criticize them while overlooking the actions of their own state. Their victim mentality and penchant for conspiracies are second to none.

None of this is true in Uk where I have lived 95% of my life, and have been involved in recruitment as Operation Manager. The only reason English people would prefer an Indian over a Pakistani is two fold:

1) Religion: Nearly all Pakistanis in UK are Muslims and there is a clear worldwide agenda against Islam.

2) Integration: Pakistanis on large like to stick to their cultures, values, dress codes, and not integrate much with English people (partying, pubs/clubs etc).

As far as dishonesty and unprofessionalism is concerned it is same with many communities in uk, Eastern European for instance are far worse as well as rude, but like Pakistanis are vey hard working.

 

[Stewie]

Unfortunately my dealings with most Pakistan-based Pakistanis is dishonesty, very money-orientated people, always looking for short-cuts in life.

Maybe I've not been very lucky with who I've come across so far.

I get the feeling that is just the subcontinental culture. I hear the same gripe from Indian American friends about Indians in India. Short cuts and money centric...

 

[Gabbar Singh]

My experience in the UK:

The generation of Pakistanis who came here in the 60s/70s etc were/are very well respected and seen as hard working and law abiding citizens.

Unfortunately, more recent immigrants and the children/grandchildren of older immigrants don’t have the best of reputations and I think a lot of this is down to two major issues which always come up in the media - 1. Terrorism and 2. Grooming gangs. Also the statistics don’t look good either - for example being over represented in prison and underrepresented when it comes to educational achievement (compared to for example British Bangladeshis, Indians or Chinese) etc.

Over the pond in the US perceptions seem to be a lot different - I guess that’s because Pakistanis (on average) are a lot more wealthier and educated over there.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

I’d also add that there’s a lot of regional variation- for example, the Pakistani community in London or Scotland seem to be portrayed better than those in places like Birmingham, Bradford or some other northern towns.

 

[JaDed]

My experience in the UK:

The generation of Pakistanis who came here in the 60s/70s etc were/are very well respected and seen as hard working and law abiding citizens.

Unfortunately, more recent immigrants and the children/grandchildren of older immigrants don’t have the best of reputations and I think a lot of this is down to two major issues which always come up in the media - 1. Terrorism and 2. Grooming gangs. Also the statistics don’t look good either - for example being over represented in prison and underrepresented when it comes to educational achievement (compared to for example British Bangladeshis, Indians or Chinese) etc.

Over the pond in the US perceptions seem to be a lot different - I guess that’s because Pakistanis (on average) are a lot more wealthier and educated over there.

American Immigrants from any country have contributed a lot, it helps America takes in educated immigrants but almost every ethnicity have something positive here Egyptian, Korean , Vietnamese,Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi etc.

 

[Nadeemp]

How are pakistanis viewed in australia

 

[Markhor]

My experience in the UK:

The generation of Pakistanis who came here in the 60s/70s etc were/are very well respected and seen as hard working and law abiding citizens.

Unfortunately, more recent immigrants and the children/grandchildren of older immigrants don’t have the best of reputations and I think a lot of this is down to two major issues which always come up in the media - 1. Terrorism and 2. Grooming gangs. Also the statistics don’t look good either - for example being over represented in prison and underrepresented when it comes to educational achievement (compared to for example British Bangladeshis, Indians or Chinese) etc.

Over the pond in the US perceptions seem to be a lot different - I guess that’s because Pakistanis (on average) are a lot more wealthier and educated over there.

I agree with that summary. I've said it before on this subject - you cannot compare US and UK Pakistanis without looking at the history of migration patterns.

UK Pakistanis came to Britain after WW2 to help rebuild the devastated manufacturing industry. They often came from the more rural, conservative areas of Pakistan or Azad Kashmir. They worked long hours, typically given night shifts, and without union protections, for lower pay. US Pakistanis were typically from the urban, professional class. So direct comparisons without context is unhelpful.

I don't think British Pakistanis are any less entrepreneurial than their American counterparts, and are represented heavily in the Health Service. However there are cultural differences - British Pakistanis are more likely to wear religion and the "Ummah" on their sleeve. Even before 9/11, there was a growing trend towards religious conservatism - see the furious reactions to the Rushdie Affair especially in Northern towns with high Muslim populations. Many struggle with the contradictions of a Muslim heritage with growing up in a Western society.

Another issue is education. Obviously white working class kids are guilty of this too but I've seen many lads with no drive, ambition or motivation. Saj correctly identifies the shortcut mentality, that one can somehow wing it to success without putting in the necessary hard work. They become left behind economically and their children then inherit this cycle of underachievement.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I dont think we had a particularly bad image in the UK in the past. The community was seen as tight-knit, reasonably entrepreneurial and quite hospitable also.

However I think later generations may have ruined the image a bit. Particulaly in some areas in England where there is high levels of crime and drug gang related activity. Of course there are some shining examples of others that have excelled in politics etc but unfortunately their contributions have been overshadowed by high profile negative issues.

In the Arab world we aren't viewed too favourably but they are arrogant towards all Indians.

In Europe ( France, Germany, Italy etc) i dont think the communities are large enough to be viewed as a seperate group. Probably grouped together with turks/arabs and seen as 'immigrants' rather than a distinct community.

I loved being in Turkey as a Pakistani. They really love us there.

 

[Marshland]

I think Malala is viewed as an important Pakistani figure down under.

Her story of standing up against conservative tribal chiefs and surviving her trying circumstances is viewed as an inspiration.

 

[Stewie]

I think Malala is viewed as an important Pakistani figure down under.

Her story of standing up against conservative tribal chiefs and surviving her trying circumstances is viewed as an inspiration.

Malala’s positive perception is at the cost of Pakistan and Pakistanis overall looking very very bad in terms of women’s education. Nothing could be farther from the truth in my opinion. It’s great what she did but the perception she has helped create is wrong. Pakistanis do educate their girls. There is always a small section here and there like everywhere else that gives you a bad rep.

So would it be incorrect that in Australia the perception is that Pakistanis are mostly these radical medieval savages who do not believe in educating their females and if they want to go school, they just shoot them?

If not incorrect, wouldn’t it mean that overall perception of us is pretty negative? I might be digressing and taking this thread in a different direction but the topic does force your hand to make some loose generalizations and stereotyping.. which may or may not be entirely accurate.

 

[rhony]

There is absolutely no difference between Pakistanis or Indians or Bangladeshis or Sri Lankans in US for the most part. They all mingle well and socialize. They are not perceived less or more than anyone from the subcontinent. People have debates sometimes about politics in subcontinent but they are always spirited but cordial. I've been to countless weddings between Indians and Pakistanis here. As far as natives go, they have similar opinion about Indians and Pakistanis. How Pakistan is perceived in the western world doesn't translate to how Pakistanis are perceived.

 

[Saj]

I get the feeling that is just the subcontinental culture. I hear the same gripe from Indian American friends about Indians in India. Short cuts and money centric...

I always recall growing up, the phone regularly ringing in our house and some relative from Pakistan on the line asking my parents for money because it was one of their 15 kids weddings, or they wanted to pay rent, or wanted to buy a tractor or buy some land etc.

The interesting thing was, that if my parents obliged and sent money, the relatives in Pakistan would be very happy and if my parents didn't give them money, they would stop speaking to them.

I guess some people think money goes on trees abroad.

 

[Stewie]

I always recall growing up, the phone regularly ringing in our house and some relative from Pakistan on the line asking my parents for money because it was one of their 15 kids weddings, or they wanted to pay rent, or wanted to buy a tractor or buy some land etc.

The interesting thing was, that if my parents obliged and sent money, the relatives in Pakistan would be very happy and if my parents didn't give them money, they would stop speaking to them.

I guess some people think money goes on trees abroad.

That’s terrible but yes I can see that happening. I came to the US for college in the late 90s and I remember my old college friends ringing me for sponsoring their student visa or to send them money once they found out I was working. How can you expect a student working part time minimum wage jobs to sponsor your education overseas, I never could understand that. Haha..

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

As a British Pakistani, I view Pakistani nationals as messy i.e they’ll throw rubbish outside literally anywhere. In the house they’ll throw used tissue paper on the floor and expect the maids to pick it up (I’ve witnessed this in many different household in Pakistan). They put the blame on the government for all the kachra but yet it’s the people that make the mess cos they’re too lazy to walk to a bin. You could put thousands of bins in 1 street but they still won’t be used.

They like to take short cuts in every aspect of life, We’ve all seen how they use roundabouts, they don’t go around it, they cut in front of it to save fuel.

They think they’re cool with their long hair and trimmed sides, posing for the camera whilst pretending to be on the phone.

Can’t follow any kind of law of the land.

They seem to think that if a transgender woman begging for money makes a dua for you to get boy at birth then it’ll come true.

They have a habit of staring at women and touching their bums. It’s happened to many of my female relatives there.

As an overseas Pakistani I like to get their perspectives of politics in Pakistan, most of the ones I ask in Karachi say they support PPP, I ask why and they say ‘awein’. They don’t care about the corrupt politicians but they still complain about no electricity, no water etc.

Most of those are cultural hangovers, you will see them all throughout the subcontinent apart from the posing with long hair and phones. That is probably more prevalent in Pakistan than India or Bangladesh.

Actually the garbage and mess is probably worse in other countries in the vicinity*

* Vicinity - a good word to use as an alternative to neighbours. Take note Indian friends.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In the US, where I’ve spent a lot of time, Pakistanis are a hard working, educated and successful bunch. The average American sees us in the same category as Indians. The more sophisticated American will point out that we have great bbq and cook with more meat than Indians, because he/she has been to a Pakistani restaurant or has a Pakistani friend. We are a well integrated minority in American society.

Different story in the UK, though based on my living in London for 2 years. Much less favorable impression of Pakistanis there, but then it’s a much less integrate society. And I am secular, live a progressive lifestyle. Can’t imagine what all the bros asking for Shariah face, or maybe they ask for Shariah because if facing lifelong discrimination in places far less cosmopolitan than London

To be honest I had always assumed you were an Indian, but this almost seems like an acceptance of 3rd class status. You aspire to be seen as Indian who themselves are still aspiring to be seen as Americans.

Actually make that 4th class as Americans themselves are still trying to trace their roots back to Europe. Oh dear.

 

[Shah]

The image of Pakistan in North America and Europe has greatly improved since the arrival of Imran Khan. He has charisma and can speak eloquently.

 

[Third_Umpire]

To be honest I had always assumed you were an Indian, but this almost seems like an acceptance of 3rd class status. You aspire to be seen as Indian who themselves are still aspiring to be seen as Americans.

Actually make that 4th class as Americans themselves are still trying to trace their roots back to Europe. Oh dear.

Born and raised in Pakistan my friend. Wonder why you thought I was Indian.

That we are seen as indistinguishable from Indians is a fact, less my own preference or judgement. The average American just can’t discern between South Asians. And South Asians are a hard working, model minority in America. Not 3rd class at all.

Not sure if you’ve been to the US, but no one here is aspiring to be anything European. Europe is a beautiful place to visit, it’s like going to a museum to take in art and history. That’s about it.

The types of complexes you mention, 3rd class etc, tell the tale of the immigrant experience in Europe, where assimilation hasn’t really been achieved. Not the case here.

 

[saeedhk]

Malala’s positive perception is at the cost of Pakistan and Pakistanis overall looking very very bad in terms of women’s education. Nothing could be farther from the truth in my opinion. It’s great what she did but the perception she has helped create is wrong. Pakistanis do educate their girls. There is always a small section here and there like everywhere else that gives you a bad rep.

So would it be incorrect that in Australia the perception is that Pakistanis are mostly these radical medieval savages who do not believe in educating their females and if they want to go school, they just shoot them?

If not incorrect, wouldn’t it mean that overall perception of us is pretty negative? I might be digressing and taking this thread in a different direction but the topic does force your hand to make some loose generalizations and stereotyping.. which may or may not be entirely accurate.

By the way, Pakistan has the highest number of out of school girls and also the highest number of out of school children. In total, 23 million kids are out of school.

 

[Energy]

Sensitive topic, and no matter how hard you try to keep a positive tone going - the reality is that the perception is negative, weak.

 

[CRIC_FANtastic]

I have never met a Pakistani, so I do not have first hand experience or impression. What I read and see on the net, it appears to me that Pakistani used to be a more forward looking, liberal country but has gone backwards/became more fundamentalist in past 30-40 years (perhaps after Zia-ul-haq's period).

I wish India and Pakistan had better relations, because I would love to visit Pakistan. My bucket list includes visiting Lahore, Peshawar and Gilgit. I love your culture, music and food (vegetarian variety, being 100% vegetarian). Ironically, I can not even visit Indian side of the Kashmir. I hope we can settle the dispute for the betterment of both the nations.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I wish India and Pakistan had better relations, because I would love to visit Pakistan. My bucket list includes visiting Lahore, Peshawar and Gilgit. I love your culture, music and food (vegetarian variety, being 100% vegetarian). Ironically, I can not even visit Indian side of the Kashmir. I hope we can settle the dispute for the betterment of both the nations.

What is a bucket list which everyone keeps talking about? An impossible wishlist?

You love pakistani vegetarian food? don't think pakistanis have a concept of veg and non-veg, which is an indian peculiarity.

 

[Stewie]

By the way, Pakistan has the highest number of out of school girls and also the highest number of out of school children. In total, 23 million kids are out of school.

That is a sad stat but you have to look at it in perspective. We are the sixth most populous country in the world. If you do a similar check for boys, you will probably find out they are not too far behind. Perhaps doing a percent comparison would be helpful.

My point was the girl’s education is not an issue it’s an overall problem that needs to be addressed. Malala’s case somehow generated that impression that we just don’t want our girls educated. And I think it’s an incorrect image.

 

[saeedhk]

That is a sad stat but you have to look at it in perspective. We are the sixth most populous country in the world. If you do a similar check for boys, you will probably find out they are not too far behind. Perhaps doing a percent comparison would be helpful.

My point was the girl’s education is not an issue it’s an overall problem that needs to be addressed. Malala’s case somehow generated that impression that we just don’t want our girls educated. And I think it’s an incorrect image.

You are incorrect. Indonesia, India, and China all have more population than us but we still have more out of school children.

We are the worst when it comes to education. As for boys, 21% are out of school. The stats are horrible; no matter how you try to spin it.

By grade 9, only 13% girls remain in school. Female education is a massive issue.

Another stat, 50% of all married women never went to school!

 

[PakPremi]

Sensitive topic, and no matter how hard you try to keep a positive tone going - the reality is that the perception is negative, weak.

The west can think what ever they like Pakistanis must not compromise on their religious and family values like them. We do not need to start heading to night clubs and pubs to better socialise with them. Pakistan just needs to sort out corruption in its society which it is heading toward with promising steps taken by the new government with an honest and committed leader. Hopefully, IK by winning next election this dream would be realised.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

In my personal experience, Malala, Imran Khan, and a few others have done an excellent job of rehabilitating our international image in the US. It helps to see English speaking, well spoken folks talking sense on international forums

 

[Energy]

The west can think what ever they like Pakistanis must not compromise on their religious and family values like them. We do not need to start heading to night clubs and pubs to better socialise with them. Pakistan just needs to sort out corruption in its society which it is heading toward with promising steps taken by the new government with an honest and committed leader. Hopefully, IK by winning next election this dream would be realised.

I agree with your view. We are viewed negatively not because we don't blend with the west, but because of our radial society. There are many countries in the world that are poor, but the world view toward them is sympathetic, not negative.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistanis are disliked in Britain and also somewhat admired. Because the British were used to subservient Indians during their colonial period they are somewhat shocked by the brash and unapologetic attitude they see in Pakistanis. At the same time they recognise the same qualities in themselves and that is where the sense of threat kicks in. A wolf won't take much notice of a fox in it's vicinity, but if a tiger turns up the alarm bells start ringing.

So pakistanis were not under the British during the colonial rule?

If pakistanis are involved in terrorist related incidents like the train bombings or stabbings ofcourse they will be treated as a threat. There was a recent YouGov survey where pakistanis were not viewed very favourably.

Then there is the small matter of the economic condition of the pakistani community.

Of course as you say they are unapologetic about all this, no wonder the survey shows how negatively pakistanis are viewed.

 

[PakPremi]

I agree with your view. We are viewed negatively not because we don't blend with the west, but because of our radial society. There are many countries in the world that are poor, but the world view toward them is sympathetic, not negative.

I lived, studies and worked in England virtually all my life, a common Englishman cannot even distinct us from an Indian, Bangladeshi, or even a Sri Lankan. They only start have reservation about Pakistanis when they find out we are Muslims. Islam has always been a threat in western world even before muslims started retaliations with terrorism for the super powers destroying Islamic countries and creating civil wars in third world. Asians are viewed as hard working and family oriented people with tasty food in UK, and this includes Pakistanis. Odd scandals of cheating and sex molestations cannot change the good reputations earned by three generations of Pakistanis. Africans are Eastern European have far worse reputation in crime but they integrate better in social activities with English people, hence less abused by the nationalist thugs.

 

[EngrOmair]

Pakistanis are known throughout the world for their dishonesty and unprofessionalism.

Moreover, Pakistan itself is one of the more poorly reputed countries in the world. Our image is pretty much equal to Afghanistan. We do not have a shred of credibility.

If I was in the fielding of hiring people in a foreign country, I would never hire a patriotic Pakistani.

By patriotic Pakistani, I mean those who do not accept the shortcomings of their beloved nation and are always looking for excuses and justifications, and are always blaming others for their problems.

Moreover, these people also poke their noses in other countries’ business and criticize them while overlooking the actions of their own state. Their victim mentality and penchant for conspiracies are second to none.

Spot On!

Pakistanis are having their share of struggles in the Gulf, particularly in the UAE. Basically, the Pakistani workforce is struggling in their initial years here in UAE, talking only about the unskilled ones they pay hefty amounts of money to obtain visas, and then they are not fair to their trade.

Over the years with experience, they get trained in their respective fields but are always up with an excuse or brainless demands in regards to payscale, housing, allowances but wouldn't bother to grow themselves with having command on languages or computer skills.

Being from the construction industry have witnessed the Indian workforce joining as Office boys or Document Controllers and have ventured into design and project teams by investing in themselves by taking up Autocad and MS Office courses.

If Pakistani joins as a welder he would never enhance his skill will keep working on the same skillset. Moreover, discussing the skilled lot and talking about the industry I am involved in Don't get to see many Pakistanis taking up managerial positions, it is flooded with particularly south Indians.

Generally, perception of Pakistanis is not very pleasant in the UAE, it's always known to be backward and intolerant. There is a struggle for us in every sector and department be it Airports, Immigration offices,Emabssies/Consulates and so on....

 

[Robert]

I try not to judge by the group.

I have benefited from the care of a couple of excellent Pakistani physicians. In my uni days, my Pakistani landlords were fair to me.

On the other hand, some others individuals seem very vulnerable to conspiracy theory.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Edit:
As an overseas Pakistani, I think people in Pakistan are very prone to being driven by conspiracy theories about the west and they seem to think the whole world is against them. Just my opinion.


From a Pakistani based in the USA POV, most of my American friends view us as filthy rich and successful because of so many of us in medicine or business or IT and general STEM fields.

Most people who have shared their views with me, of course are those who are friendly with me so naturally they will only give generally positive feedback.

Let’s just say down south where I have lived most of my life, they have a more favorable view of us vs latinos who they think mostly snuck in from across the border to take advantage of the so called welfare system here.

Likewise British view of Pakistanis and Indians. I'm not a fan of this outlook.

In UK, many Indians have 'integrated' better, many have pubs etc and that helps their image whereas Pakistanis in particular frowned up though we don't help ourselves

 

[Greenstorm]

As usual, this thread has descended into a competition of who can provide the most number of negative traits that Pakistanis possess. The self pity and rona dhona is astoundingly pathetic and depicts weakness in character.

Why should other people's judgement matter so much ? Moreover, many posters on this thread are actual citizens of UK and US. If they are being judged as part of a group instead of an individual then the fault lies in the observer, not the person being judged.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So pakistanis were not under the British during the colonial rule?

If pakistanis are involved in terrorist related incidents like the train bombings or stabbings ofcourse they will be treated as a threat. There was a recent YouGov survey where pakistanis were not viewed very favourably.

Then there is the small matter of the economic condition of the pakistani community.

Of course as you say they are unapologetic about all this, no wonder the survey shows how negatively pakistanis are viewed.

There was no Pakistan at the time of the British rule.

As for how we are viewed, check my flag and the ethnic heritage. Neither Brits or Pakistanis spend their time weeping and whining about how others view them.

 

[Buffet]

That is a sad stat but you have to look at it in perspective. We are the sixth most populous country in the world. If you do a similar check for boys, you will probably find out they are not too far behind. Perhaps doing a percent comparison would be helpful.

Out of school % of primary school kids for all south Asian countries,

Pakistan - 24%
Nepal - 5%
BD - 5%
Ind - 2%
SL - 1%



32% of primary-school-age girls are out of school in Pakistan,
21% of primary-school-age boys are out of school in Pakistan

https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/11/...o percent of primary,in school by ninth grade.

-----

 

[Technics 1210]

The Amreekan perspective of Pakistanis is laughable. For one, Amreekans cannot distinguish between Pakistani and Indian. Mention Indian and you're in the realms of the Natives.

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan is too large a country to have a generic view. Based on your interactions, you can have different views.

I don't see any difference in Pakistani origin vs other immigrant groups in the US. They all face unique challenges and trying to make their life better.

 

[CricFan2012]

I live in Canada, and Pakistanis are generally seen in a good light, that's because Canada has people from all over the country.

Having met Pakistanis through madrassas growing up, overhearing conversations, from parties, and from my own parents, I can see why Pakistanis are seen in a negative light.

A lot are still stuck in the past and don't believe in women's rights, a lot of victim blaming, its very easy to blame Israel and the West for the downfall of your own country.

 

[Stewie]

The Amreekan perspective of Pakistanis is laughable. For one, Amreekans cannot distinguish between Pakistani and Indian. Mention Indian and you're in the realms of the Natives.

Not true anymore. This argument perhaps held some weight 15-20 years ago but not anymore. I think in most metropolitan cities due to their interactions with people from both communities, Americans now can easily distinguish between Pakistanis and Indians.

 

[saeedhk]

As for Pakistanis living in Pakistan, they are sly, deceitful, dishonest and delusional. Almost everybody wants to rip you off or wants some money from you. Be it the fruit the vendor who would deceitfully include spoiled fruit in your purchase without you noticing or the hairdresser who would try to overcharge you or the pharmacist who would sell you fake drugs for the price of the real ones. Har Pakistani ka aik haath doosray kay gallay pay hai, aur aik haath doosray ki jaeb (pocket) pay.

Also, concocting and believing in conspiracy theories is a national pastime. There is a widespread belief that the whole world is conspiring against Pakistan. Everything is a conspiracy! Majority thinks that Pakistan is the custodian of Islam and that the country has a good standing in the international community.

 

[Greenstorm]

From my observation, I have found my fellow Pakistanis as warm, street smart and hospitable people. A few negative traits have crept in them due to the absence of rule of law in the country but still millions go about their lives and attempt to earn an honest living.

 

[iRfaN_LA]

How are Pakistanis viewed in the US? As one American guy once said "you guys are sophisticated"

 

[Mamoon]

Spot On!

Pakistanis are having their share of struggles in the Gulf, particularly in the UAE. Basically, the Pakistani workforce is struggling in their initial years here in UAE, talking only about the unskilled ones they pay hefty amounts of money to obtain visas, and then they are not fair to their trade.

Over the years with experience, they get trained in their respective fields but are always up with an excuse or brainless demands in regards to payscale, housing, allowances but wouldn't bother to grow themselves with having command on languages or computer skills.

Being from the construction industry have witnessed the Indian workforce joining as Office boys or Document Controllers and have ventured into design and project teams by investing in themselves by taking up Autocad and MS Office courses.

If Pakistani joins as a welder he would never enhance his skill will keep working on the same skillset. Moreover, discussing the skilled lot and talking about the industry I am involved in Don't get to see many Pakistanis taking up managerial positions, it is flooded with particularly south Indians.

Generally, perception of Pakistanis is not very pleasant in the UAE, it's always known to be backward and intolerant. There is a struggle for us in every sector and department be it Airports, Immigration offices,Emabssies/Consulates and so on....

Well said.

Pakistanis are among the laziest and “kaam chor” people you will come across, and they always have an excuse and justification for their poor work ethic and inefficiency. They cannot survive in a workaholic environment unlike Indians (particularly South Indians) and Bangladeshis.