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How close are we to a new India-Pakistan war?
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Majestic_Inzi
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Had pakistan not had nuclear weapons india would have started something by now.
rockyboy2018
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Depends on how brave or chicken Pakistan Army is. They have the final shots. They are assessing the situation - I am not sure the Pakistan Army is full of nutcases. They will go for a war just because there is an issue of Kashmir. Kudos to Modi for highlighting the issue again. Hpowever, Pakistan can not win a war with India. At best it is sabre rattling going on - if America or the rest of the world does not listen to Pakistan's concerns then we Pakistanis will keep protesting here and there. Look at the Muslim Ummah- not a single statement is issued. It is time for Pakistan to be friends with Israel. Also, Pakistan gover ment should give proper rights to an average Pakistani first before talking about issues of Kashmiris or Afghanis or Palestinians
KingKhanWC
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1. There is no Ummah in the political sense.
2. Pakistan has the superiour air force and air power rules today.
3. Israel has nothing to do with this, being friends or not will not make a difference to Kashmir.
War is very ugly especially for those who have to live through it. Its easy for me to say living abroad but sometimes war brings peace in the long run. Any war now will have the world scared of a nuclear disaster and they will demand the Kashmir conflict to resolved.
The gap between India and Pakistan's navy was huge in the 70s. 71 being a prime example.
Now even that gap has been closed.
rockyboy2018
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India sent 12 planes in Pakistan and how many got shot down by Pakistan? Had it been Iran or Turkey, the end outcome would have been different. I go by facts not just by chest-thumping and empty words.
Don't even know if that figure is even correct but whatever.
Pak jets were probably ordered not to shoot as the IAF jets didn't even hit their intended target. This was done to not escalate it.
But we all know what happened the next day...
Abhi-none-done
War will happen in three scenarios
1) if India occupies mainland Pakistan, AJK, Gikgit
2) if Pakistan is in a destitute state and is desperate.
3) if India threatens the survival.of Pak by blocking water
Out of these three, only no.1 is possible. Could be India going for Gilgit and it will be atleast a decade away
1) if India occupies mainland Pakistan, AJK, Gikgit
2) if Pakistan is in a destitute state and is desperate.
3) if India threatens the survival.of Pak by blocking water
Out of these three, only no.1 is possible. Could be India going for Gilgit and it will be atleast a decade away
That's foolish. Your air force was late even during Isama Bin laden's death. No air force will knowingly sit tight when enemy planes are in your territory. Downlng a plane can happen. USAF, the strongest in the world lost helicopters to rag tag dirt pickers.
Civil
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12 planes crossing is not facts. Please provide factual data of 12 planes crossing border. And ofcourse we know whichever ones didn't get intercepted had drop their fuel and run . Also we know they hit nothing. That can be backed by factual data.
Next exhibit is Pakistani jets retaliating in broad daylight this also is factual.
JaDed
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Zero
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Relax, no war. LoC skirmishes may increase in number, more terror attacks in J&K by angry locals. Post Balakot, Modi doesn't have the surprise element, he may order heavier ammunition for cross border firing.
CricketCartoons
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War or no war, I hope my grand children will be proud that I bravely fought the Pakistanis on the internet.
Here comes keyboard warrior, i don't need to waste time listing events where Pakistan Army took lead to teach you a lesson but just an example. China took part of the Kashmir but India NEVER even dares to challenge them despite the fact that China is only slightly bigger (not talking about economy). India is 7 times bigger than us but Pakistan Army has challenged you throughout the years. They aren't afraid to attack or counter attack (proved that just this year). So come out of your petty Bollywood world, it's not Sunny Deol vs random evil guys with beards and guns. Pakistan Army is professional Army capable of fighting you for years if not decades.
What Pakistan has been saying is, we will fight for years or decades and then finally negotiate to end the madness, why do we need to waste lives and Billions of Dollars before we do that? Why do we want to take poor subcontinent even 50 years back?
cricketjoshila
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China claims two Indian states, Sikkim and Arunachal. They have not attacked India to get them. Why? Because they are ok with the status quo as they become a economic giant.
Same with India.
Pakistan tried open war. Lost east pakistan.
Pakistan tried asymmetric war. Their own security situation is poor and economy is in dire straits.
cricketjoshila
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Savak
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Indians chest thumping about their economic might over Pakistan and that it can afford a longer conflict are forgetting the fact it is no USA at the end of the day. The costs of war in terms of billions and human life cannot be afforded for long.
Case in point Afghanistan. The country had nothing and it made the two big super powers ie USSR and now the US quit.
Case in point Afghanistan. The country had nothing and it made the two big super powers ie USSR and now the US quit.
Mamoon
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The customary delusions aside, wars are not fought over empty stomachs and wallets. Pakistan is a broke country and a full-scale war with India would create a refugee situation here.
Supporting war is of course easy for overseas Pakistanis because as Pakistan gets poorer, they get richer. They cannot hide their glee looking at the current USD exchange rate. PTI’s dumb economic policies have made them richer by 33%.
It is also pertinent to address Pakistan’s knack overselling it’s military might. We are essentially run by our armed forces who have been taking the biggest slice of the pie for decades, so it is no surprise that they are quite strong.
A poor and weak country with a strong military is not a proud situation. It is the consequence of rampant propaganda that has arrested the economic development of the country.
PAF is our strong point but once the army and navy is engaged it is a different story. Ground-battles are essentially about the numbers, and this is where India can outlast and outdo any country except the obvious big 3 - USA, China and Russia.
Perhaps you can throw Japan in the mix as well. They don’t have the numbers but they are extremely efficient and well-equipped.
There is a reason why Pakistan has not prevailed over India in a single full-scale war. We proudly celebrate September 6 as “Defence Day”, but in truth it was nothing more than our misadventure backfiring.
In a nutshell, we attacked Kashmir, India responded by heading towards Lahore. We panicked and retreated back to Lahore because we didn’t have the numbers to engage India on two fronts.
Our history is littered with blunders and foreign policy goof-ups. These goof-ups have reduced us to where we are today. A few more goof-ups and we would end up paying a very, very heavy price.
We must tread carefully and take decisions keeping our bankruptcy and zero international credibility in sight. This is a perfect opportunity for Pakistan to move on from the Kashmir issue, save billions of rupees and focus on industrial growth.
As a result of PTI’s incompetence, foreign industries are slowly driving out of the market. However, our local industries are not ready to fill the gap yet. Instead of letting China plug the gap which seems imminent, we need to immediately boost our local industries,
However, that cannot happen when you continue to waste billions and billions fighting someone else’s war, even though you have been at it for 72 years and have made zero progress, which reminds me of a famous Einstein quote.
Supporting war is of course easy for overseas Pakistanis because as Pakistan gets poorer, they get richer. They cannot hide their glee looking at the current USD exchange rate. PTI’s dumb economic policies have made them richer by 33%.
It is also pertinent to address Pakistan’s knack overselling it’s military might. We are essentially run by our armed forces who have been taking the biggest slice of the pie for decades, so it is no surprise that they are quite strong.
A poor and weak country with a strong military is not a proud situation. It is the consequence of rampant propaganda that has arrested the economic development of the country.
PAF is our strong point but once the army and navy is engaged it is a different story. Ground-battles are essentially about the numbers, and this is where India can outlast and outdo any country except the obvious big 3 - USA, China and Russia.
Perhaps you can throw Japan in the mix as well. They don’t have the numbers but they are extremely efficient and well-equipped.
There is a reason why Pakistan has not prevailed over India in a single full-scale war. We proudly celebrate September 6 as “Defence Day”, but in truth it was nothing more than our misadventure backfiring.
In a nutshell, we attacked Kashmir, India responded by heading towards Lahore. We panicked and retreated back to Lahore because we didn’t have the numbers to engage India on two fronts.
Our history is littered with blunders and foreign policy goof-ups. These goof-ups have reduced us to where we are today. A few more goof-ups and we would end up paying a very, very heavy price.
We must tread carefully and take decisions keeping our bankruptcy and zero international credibility in sight. This is a perfect opportunity for Pakistan to move on from the Kashmir issue, save billions of rupees and focus on industrial growth.
As a result of PTI’s incompetence, foreign industries are slowly driving out of the market. However, our local industries are not ready to fill the gap yet. Instead of letting China plug the gap which seems imminent, we need to immediately boost our local industries,
However, that cannot happen when you continue to waste billions and billions fighting someone else’s war, even though you have been at it for 72 years and have made zero progress, which reminds me of a famous Einstein quote.
Same with India?? As i said India can't even dare to challenge them. And not sure who you are fooling about East Pakistan, it was a civil war that India took advantage of mainly due to separate borders, nothing to do with Pakistan challenging India. Don't forget the part of Kashmir we have today was snatched back from India. You tried to be smart earlier in the year and got a bloody nose.
In short, Pakistan doesn't fear it's MUCH bigger enemy whereas Indians do fear even slightly bigger enemy (China) so save this bravado for Bollywood flicks.
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cricketjoshila
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Lol. Has China attacked India to get Sikkim and Arunachal? No. Why?
90k Pakistanis surrendered to India in 1971. Pakistan army was killing bangladeshis by 100s, and would have kept east pakistan but then it made the mistake of attacking India, and lost. Civil war? It was a genocide by pak army.
Go read a few books on Kashmir. PoK was taken from the forces of Hari Singh and not Indian army. Pakistan was few kilometres away from srinagar when IA landed there and then they pushed pakistan out to the small area they hold today.
We went inside pakistan and bombed pakistani territory.
In short, pakistan is a country surviving on bailouts, that bankrupted itself and made its own internal security a quagmire,and lost half its population and territory trying to challenge India.
Bombed Pakistan territory? Are you talking about the Balakot thing? Didn’t Pakistan respond by crossing into Indian territory just a few hours later?
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&sour...aw26WlPtjO9KsNGXJF5klkVd&ust=1566020158902488
Earlier in the day, the PAF dropped bombs at four places in Jammu and Kashmir close to Army installations.
This is an excerpt from an article in the Hindu. So it seems like Pakistan also bombed Indian territory unless you don’t consider JK to be India. [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]
This is an excerpt from an article in the Hindu. So it seems like Pakistan also bombed Indian territory unless you don’t consider JK to be India. [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]
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MRSN
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Pakistani is already broke. It's India that should be scared of the consequences. Also Pak last resort would be to use nuclear weapons in case Pakistan is losing war. If Pakistan does not win then India will not win either. A lose lose situation for both but Pakistan woulf stand taller morally at least and history will remember fascist Indian govt for this whole destruction.
MRSN
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Also a war with India is a must for survival of Pakistan. Arrogance shown by Modi by blocking our resources like water is another hint that this fascist govt. Is not interested in a peaceful region. When you play with fire you should be ready for getring yourself burnt.
big_gamer007
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War is highly unlikely, though skirmishes might be frequent.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pokhran is the area which witnessed Atal Ji’s firm resolve to make India a nuclear power and yet remain firmly committed to the doctrine of ‘No First Use’. India has strictly adhered to this doctrine. What happens in future depends on the circumstances.</p>— Rajnath Singh (@rajnathsingh) <a href="https://twitter.com/rajnathsingh/status/1162276901055893504?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 16, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Mamoon
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There is a difference in being broke and being a failed state. If you want Pakistan to become like Afghanistan and create a refugee situation in the country, by all means wage a decade long war against India.
If the alternative is to have a smaller war that lasts over a few months, we have done that before and have achieved nothing. Our misadventures in 1965, 1971 and 1999 have cost us lives, territory and money with nothing to show for at the end of the day.
Secondly, Pakistan’s days of standing tall morally are long gone. We have no credibility and housing Osama half a mile away from a military base in Abbottabad was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
No country and no institution is under any obligation to buy our narrative after we played host to the most wanted terrorist in the world, whilst simultaneously claiming to have very strong military and intelligence.
Pakistan’s lack of credibility is the reason why other Muslim countries are not coming out in hordes to support our narrative in Kashmir, and it is the reason why during all these decades, the Kashmir issue has not been discussed seriously in international forums in spite of our persistent propaganda.
A nuclear war will never happen and I don’t have to explain why. All this childish talk of war needs to be put to rest. After 72 years of mistakes and blunders, the time has finally come for us to think with our heads and focus on our real issues.
shaz619
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I agree War is not an immediate benefit for Pak in any way given their financial situation, however; how do you see foreign pakistanis benefit ? are these the blokes who were born in pak then fled to Canada etc ?
Mamoon
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Anyone who lives in Pakistan (or still has proper ties with the country) and has a decent understanding of our financial health would never advocate a war.
The pro-war voices generally come from the section of overseas Pakistanis who have no interest in coming back to the country and are well-established abroad. As our rupee devaluates, which will inevitably happen during a prolonged war, they are only going to get wealthier.
In my opinion, these selfish people who only look for themselves and do not take the interest of the country into account are the real traitors.
Pakistan has made many, many mistakes. These mistakes have reduced us to bankruptcy and has ensured that we have more enemies than friends. We cannot afford anymore mistakes in the name of “humanity”. We can only wish the people of J&K well, but we will end up with a refugee situation in Pakistan if we insist on fighting a war with India and they retaliate by violating the Indus Water Treaty.
We are a hot-headed, emotional nation that thrives on rhetoric. Now it is time for us to be pragmatic and realistic.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
Firstly, Indo-Pak wars generally don't last long due to the intervention by the higher powers. If a war happens it will last from a few days to around three months. It's not going to bankrupt us and definitely not going to take us to a refugee situation lol. Even saying that makes me laugh.
Secondly, the IWT abrogation will take years to actually come into effect coz India will have to build structures so water doesn't go to pak. It will take around 10 years.
Firstly, Indo-Pak wars generally don't last long due to the intervention by the higher powers. If a war happens it will last from a few days to around three months. It's not going to bankrupt us and definitely not going to take us to a refugee situation lol. Even saying that makes me laugh.
Secondly, the IWT abrogation will take years to actually come into effect coz India will have to build structures so water doesn't go to pak. It will take around 10 years.
shaz619
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I understand now, basically war will devalue your currency and those overseas who are doing well can profit by claiming land among other investments at highly discounted prices. I see why they would have ulterior motives when it comes to war, my view is that anyone can put on the nationalistic cap but there is never any glory in war when you look at the death, destruction and suffering it causes. Pak need to be smart with the Kashmir situation; what would you say is the best diplomatic route ? They need to build good trade relationships and invest in their own resources to become a bit more self sustained. Issue with Kashmir is also the sentiment across the whole Pak population in general, they will not be looking at this from a practical POV and the genocide of Kashmiri's isn't going to change that
imrankhannsu
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cricketjoshila
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According to your own ISPR, PAF didnot cross into India.
MRSN
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You keep painting Pakistan in a very bad picture and it's getting very boring. This time whole world knows who is the agressor here and who is using violence and extremism.
You are saying Pakistan will be like Afghanistan at the end of the war..could be true but what about India? Will India come out without any damages? Pakistan obviously not have enough resources to win a conventional battle so it is very likely Pak will use nuclear weapons, if Pakistan does that , then what will be the picture of India? Pakistan will only enter in the war having nuclear option in mind.
WhenSultansBowled
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No chance of war.
At best, it will be a pyrrhic victory for India.
At best, it will be a pyrrhic victory for India.
topspin
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Well said Mamoon, I have two cousins here in the UK who share the "Pakistan needs to intervene"mindset.
I don't agree with all your political views and self-hatred of Pakistan however you are bang on the money here. With inflation approaching double digit percentage, currency devaluing at a rate of knots and all the loans taken from IMF + other countries, it's time our people end this emotional attachment with Kashmir.
I never thought I'd see the day where £1 could buy you circa.200 Pakistani Rupees.
IK's recent response to the Kashmir situation is just a follow-up to the Army's statement on the matter when they said "they would go to any extent over Kashmir".
The biggest problem in the region isn't Modi or India, but the army who have been the most destructive organisation in Pakistan since the 60s.
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pakistani pride
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Just relax and keep the long repeated essays to your self. Nothing will happen. PAK is too strong and India knows that. There will be some chest thumping from both sides.
PAK army is built on defending and India wont achieve anything.
PAK army is built on defending and India wont achieve anything.
Ram Shekhar
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I hope better sense prevails for the sake of the secular people on either side of the border.
Correct well said.
KingKhanWC
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Pakistan army are not abusing, torturing, raping or killing civillians, India army has a history of this in Kashmir. Having a fascist government as a neighour is a security threat and Pakistan has a right to react for it's security interests. You do realise if India take full control of IOK, they will also want Azad Kashmir as per many statements from their officials. Would it also be the Pakistani army at fault for defending the territory?
Syed1
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Yes it was the Pakistan Army that drummed up war hysteria and entered the airspace of a nuclear armed country unprovoked and tried to bomb locations. Did you know the place they bombed was close to a madrassa boarding school with 200 school going children residing there. What would have happened had those bombs hit? Pak would have gone to any extent to avenge the blood of our children.
However for self-hating Pakistanis like Mamoon and their chamchas (you) all the evil in the world stem from the Pakistani Army.
KingKhanWC
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[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] Do you also agree with Mamoon bombing of Pakistani schoolchildren by India would have been justified because they will grow to be terrorists?
cricketjoshila
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200 school children? Who said that?
Syed1
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Speak when spoken to hindutva
cricketjoshila
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topspin
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I know very well of what India's army is doing in J&K, however the Govt need to take of our own people first.
Given our huge deficit, I don't want to see millions being spent on another needless war.
If India tries to take Azad Kashmir, then yes a military solution would be required - but this should be a last resort!
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KingKhanWC
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At what point would it be ok for Pakistan to get involved with IOK? Taking care of own people is as ambigious as one can get.
topspin
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No I wasn't aware that the airstrike hit an area close to a School, but if it was struck a full military response would have been warranted.
But I'm well aware of the blood on the hands of the Army stemming back from the 60s. Having said that they deserve full praise for their conduct during the Balakot episode. Me hating the army doesn't me a "self-hating Pakistani"
Syed, I rate you as a poster and I think we can have a constructive discussions on various matters but I'm not Mamoon's "chamc.ha". It's funny you would say that when I explicitly mentioned "I don't agree with all your political views and self-hatred of Pakistan". So I'd appreciate you retract this petty remark because that's not me.
topspin
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If he said this, that's a revolting comment.
KingKhanWC
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I was sure you wouldn't agree but I thought its only fair others know you dont agree with his views such as this.
topspin
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When Pakistan has to defend itself i.e. under attack - we shouldn't be the aggressor.
topspin
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Thanks much appreciated.
KingKhanWC
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We will agree to disagree. Its Friday night, need to go.
Kashmirilion
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Stupid people who think wars are only fought if you have trillion dollar economies. USA had their behind handed to them in Afghanistan. What about nato in Syria? Saudis in Yemen? What economy do the Taliban have? Wars are not all about money it's about willpower and courage too. India can't sustain a war with Pakistani not due to economic loss but due to the instability and the insurgency it would cause in the country. India will never win a war against Pak simply because there will be no end to the war just ask the Americans who are running from Afghanistan 17 years later fighting men in salwar kameez and chappal.
I don't like war, and I hope it doesn't become necessary given IK's focus on fixing the economy-which I personally believe he is doing an excellent job of. I know some of you think it's completely horrible that somehow not having the economy clearly documented is a bad thing. Pakistan has to know what it has before it can gain further. If a significant portion of the economy is unaccounted for, then there will be never be progress as these small owners will only ever focus on their personal profits, with absolutely nothing going towards helping develop the country to a point where it can compete globally.
What [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] doesn't realize here is that IK is going out of his way to avoid war. On independence day he shared a video talking about how he has always been proud to be regarded as a pacifist. He has sought international support for the cause of IOK rather than making any rash decision to send the army on the offensive. He has been exactly the pragmatic and realistic leader that some have claimed we do not have. Now, if all diplomatic options are exhausted and Pakistan is left without a choice-then IK will go to war! He has no desire to go, but if he does he will trust the generals to do their job and he will continue to do his-drum up support for Pakistan at the international level.
War would ruin Pakistan, there's little doubt of that. That's why IK is trying to avoid it. But if he does side step it, then history will remember him as the leader that allowed India to commit a genocide. Do you think that's the kind of legacy Imran Khan wants to leave for himself? He wants to be a Churchill, not a Chamberlain.
What [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] doesn't realize here is that IK is going out of his way to avoid war. On independence day he shared a video talking about how he has always been proud to be regarded as a pacifist. He has sought international support for the cause of IOK rather than making any rash decision to send the army on the offensive. He has been exactly the pragmatic and realistic leader that some have claimed we do not have. Now, if all diplomatic options are exhausted and Pakistan is left without a choice-then IK will go to war! He has no desire to go, but if he does he will trust the generals to do their job and he will continue to do his-drum up support for Pakistan at the international level.
War would ruin Pakistan, there's little doubt of that. That's why IK is trying to avoid it. But if he does side step it, then history will remember him as the leader that allowed India to commit a genocide. Do you think that's the kind of legacy Imran Khan wants to leave for himself? He wants to be a Churchill, not a Chamberlain.
pakistani pride
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Please dont compare the PAK army with Afghanistan. America was fighting a war 1000s KM away from home.
What India doest understand is that IF a war breaks out both Indians and Pakistanis wisll suffer big time.
India or Pakistan both should understand they cant defeat each other.
Being sensible and finding a solution in a diplomatic way should be the way.
The INT community needs to step up as they have a massive role to play.
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daytrader
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The ball is in India's court. There won't be a full blown war if India doesn't do anything stupid (I.e. Blaming Pakistan after a false flag operation).
However, if India tries another misadventure then I think Pakistan's leadership (elected and selected) are now on the same page that we will respond heavily as our peace offerings are going unappreciated.
However, if India tries another misadventure then I think Pakistan's leadership (elected and selected) are now on the same page that we will respond heavily as our peace offerings are going unappreciated.
waqar goraya
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The war is very much a possibility with growing nationalism and RSS ideology in India. They openly threaten water diversion , want to convert subcontinent to Hinduism and plan to unleash a reign of terror in Kashmir.
Maybe not now, but if this Hindu nationalism at the very top level of the state continues for another decade, we are destined for a war.
It does not matter what our economy dictates or chances of survival are. We will have no other option. The racial , fascist and supremacist Hindus have their own objectives.
Maybe not now, but if this Hindu nationalism at the very top level of the state continues for another decade, we are destined for a war.
It does not matter what our economy dictates or chances of survival are. We will have no other option. The racial , fascist and supremacist Hindus have their own objectives.
Kashmirilion
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At what point did I compare Pak army to Afghans? Regardless how far Americans were away from home they had an unlimited budget,many rich allies, and much more advanced arsenal. Yet the Taliban were a thorn in their backside.
the Great Khan
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As long as the iaf have pilots and support staff like they showed on the 27th they have zero chance...
Their good on paper and using data and stats..that's it..
Pakistan has a more resilient armed force..
Their good on paper and using data and stats..that's it..
Pakistan has a more resilient armed force..
CRIC_FANtastic
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The better question is - how do you define 'war'?
With the exception of Pakistan's mis-adventure of 1965 and 1999, there was no 'direct' war with India on Kashmir's issue. Rather, Pakistan has waged a 'Proxy' war since 1987 by encouraging militancy, training terrorists and providing economical and logistic support to flare up militant operation in India, many times outside of Kashmir as well.
In this scenario also, a direct war by Pakistan is almost out of question. Pakistan can not afford it with their economy in tatters. However, very interesting to see, if Pakistan will go back to their Plan A i.e. 'proxy' war. Especially, what if anything happens in Main land India. With FATF decision coming next month, and world watching Kashmir closely (more closely than 1987-2016), this will be a hard decision to take for Pakistan establishment. Also, the know that this time there will be a retaliation from India, unlike some of the older governments.
In my opinion, Pakistan will continue to create noise using UN, China and other forums. Modi and India will be least bothered with all the noise. Modi has not even mentioned Pakistan even once since abrogation of Article 370, while Imran Khan is spending half of his time on Twitter searching new ways to abuse Modi. This shows who is more desperate. Questions is, if and when this desperation will run out?
With the exception of Pakistan's mis-adventure of 1965 and 1999, there was no 'direct' war with India on Kashmir's issue. Rather, Pakistan has waged a 'Proxy' war since 1987 by encouraging militancy, training terrorists and providing economical and logistic support to flare up militant operation in India, many times outside of Kashmir as well.
In this scenario also, a direct war by Pakistan is almost out of question. Pakistan can not afford it with their economy in tatters. However, very interesting to see, if Pakistan will go back to their Plan A i.e. 'proxy' war. Especially, what if anything happens in Main land India. With FATF decision coming next month, and world watching Kashmir closely (more closely than 1987-2016), this will be a hard decision to take for Pakistan establishment. Also, the know that this time there will be a retaliation from India, unlike some of the older governments.
In my opinion, Pakistan will continue to create noise using UN, China and other forums. Modi and India will be least bothered with all the noise. Modi has not even mentioned Pakistan even once since abrogation of Article 370, while Imran Khan is spending half of his time on Twitter searching new ways to abuse Modi. This shows who is more desperate. Questions is, if and when this desperation will run out?
Greenstorm
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Pakistan has been facing Indian backed proxies since 60s yet India never had to worry about FATF/sanctions because India does it the right way. Similarly if Pakistan keep it professional and wage proxy wars against India in the right manner than FATF will be least of our concern.
msb314
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fitCricFan
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A more resilient armed force......LOL
In the 1971 war, more than 90K soldiers of Pak army surrenderred to the Indians. The Kargil (mis)adventure even with the element of surprise cost Pakistan big time, so much so that Pervez Musharraf refused to accept the bodies of the Pak soldiers claiming they werent Pakistan citizens.
If these are the type of blokes leading the Pak foces, tking them tpo war ould be teh last thing
IndianHero
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No war will happen as both countries will move on. One thing is for sure:
IK will be remain as the leader under whose regime pakistan lost kashmir almost permanently
Modi will be remain as the leader under whose regime India won/solved kashmir almost permanently period.
IK will be remain as the leader under whose regime pakistan lost kashmir almost permanently
Modi will be remain as the leader under whose regime India won/solved kashmir almost permanently period.
Kroll
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Agreed with the Hindu nationalism, they getting too belligerent, only because they're numbers are massive compared to every other group. so, it seems more like a battle between Hindu and Muslim rather than Indo / Pak because of the extremist RSS aggression.
fitCricFan
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The muslim population of India is very close to the Pakistan population and yet none of those are protesting the aborgation of the article 370. In fact every cleric has been reported to be supporting the Indian govt reiterating the need for integrating Kashmir with rest of the country.
Did not hear of any battles (or riots) between Muslims and Hindus happening in India but the same cant be said of the same religious majority in Pakistan. Ever wondered why!!!
Kroll
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It's been discussed and reported here many times that Muslims in India cannot raise voice as they will be set upon by the majority. However, in this instance they do not need to as these guys are actually Indian, separate from the Kashmir issue in which the Muslims do not support India.
Although the Muslim in India must be a bit cagey with the extremist RSS ideology at the top of Indian politics which we have already seen manifest in such things as beef lynchings.
Greenstorm
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What is this “right way” that you speak of?
For starters, send our 'Kulbhushans' who can motivate, train and arm indigenous Indian separatist groups instead of sending mujahideen across the border. (Might need some third country for this purpose Bangladesh, Nepal, Myanmar comes to mind).
Pakistan cannot be blamed easily by international community if local Indian groups are the ones carrying out operations and accepting responsibility.
Proxy wars are the norm in today's world but we have not utilised it properly against India.
fitCricFan
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But it looks like Pakistan ios being blamed and held accounatble for the proxy war that it has been waging in the name of supporting Kashmir. You don't see anyone holding teh door for IK, including China, who just went through the motions of the security council to keep IK happy and to seem like they did something
Lonewarrior
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source of this bullcrap ...
looks like every ignorant indian have same indian source just like hindu population of pakistan... its effing nonsense...
shockbound
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Not happening. Govt and establishment has failed to deliver after sucking taxes out of poor nation. This is only a cover-up to divert from actual issues. Establishment knows that conventional-war would leave their bums red so their are trying to play teasers to keep awaam engaged.
daytrader
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Muslims in India are afraid that if they speak up mobs will come rape and kill their families, just like what happened in the Gujrat massacre. That's the state of your society, no one can openly see speak up.
Step outside of India and you will see these same Indian Muslims openly backing the Kashmir cause.
PetroDollars
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)are you trying to be funny, the hindus even tried to stop students from aligarth uni holding peacefull protests at there campus,
how are they going to raise a voice when they get murdered and beaten in your so called secular democracy.
Greenstorm
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Read my entire post again for better understanding.
cricketjoshila
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So Indian muslims, some 170mn of them came and told you this?
Why do pakistanis think they know anything about Indian muslims?
Indian muslims are Indian. They have not been brought up on the propoganda that pakistanis have been brought up.
Many Indian muslims have given up their lives defending Kashmir and India.
Pakistan has fought India in 4 wars and not once did they get support of Indian muslims. Infact just like other Indians, the muslims of India defended their country with their blood..
Pakistanis will not understand the meaning of a national identity, what holds them together is their religion, while what holds Indians together is the idea of being an Indian.
Indian army can take care of the locals. One of the reasons why GOi went ahead with 370 was the timing of Imran and Trump meeting. India learned their lesson after the last Afghan war where jihadis were diverted like cattle into India after the Soviet war. The remnants of those actions are seen even now. Once America leaves Afg, Pak would do the same thing again and that's what forced India's hand among other things. India wanted to control the police force and remove the useless state government from the picture. Now that it's a union territory, Center can control the security and safety aspects directly. Contrary to what you said Pakistan have used the proxy war strategy well. However India is now taking advantage of it by blaming Pak for every incident. FATF is the avenue they pursued. This time around India is prepared.
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