How come India flourished while Pakistan failed inspite of grotesque corruption in both countries?

[Technics 1210]

Again, compared to Pakistan, India is a superpower. That doesn’t show how great India is but rather how much of a failed state Pakistan is.

You are fixated with living conditions but I am more concerned with their economic growth as well as forex reserves (top ten in the world).

India’s main exports are auto, pharma and IT, while we are still reliant on non-tech exports.

Laughable. Either you consider India to be a superpower, or not. You cannot have it both ways. The fact you are reduced to calling India a superpower in comparison to one country, means India is not a superpower.

By your logic, Saudi Arabia and Switzerland are superpowers when compared to India.

You can ignore the social reality of India, but the question is how come India has flourished while Pakistan failed - there is one answer - money. There is nothing else India excels in when compared with Pakistan. Though I am surprised you have not mentioned BJP vis-a-via PTI.

 

[barah_admi]

Some people claim that corruption, criminal activities and money laundering among politicians and bureaucrats is significantly much higher in India in comparison to Pakistan.

But the key question is how come corruption failed to stop India from growing economically but has in comparison been the major reason for preventing Pakistan from realizing its true economic potential?

Is the truth that the assertion that corruption being the number 1 stumbling block to economic growth and prosperity in Pakistan a false statement? Or is the truth that perhaps corruption in India is not as high in comparison to Pakistan?

Or is the truth the level of hard work, ambition, entrepreneurial and industrial drive among the Indian people is far greater in comparison to Pakistani busines owners who are just content with whatever they can make and are unwilling to work hard, spend the money necessary to further innovate and make more extra money in business?

I would love people to debate and brain storm on this topic

What would your definition of flourish be?

India falls below Pakistan in many metrics, in terms of happiness, in terms of toilet hygiene, in terms of prostitution, HIV infection rates, human trafficking and so on. India has a larger GDP, which is fine but it also means that hardly any of that money is trickling down to the 99% who live in worse conditions than the people of Pakistan.

We also have to factor in where a lot of this money is coming from. It is not Indian made but through large chunks of western investment, which also occurs in Pakistan but on a far lesser scale.

I think if someone wanted to live a better, happier, less discriminated life with less chance of disease and better access to bathroom facilities, they would choose Pakistan.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What would your definition of flourish be?

India falls below Pakistan in many metrics, in terms of happiness, in terms of toilet hygiene, in terms of prostitution, HIV infection rates, human trafficking and so on. India has a larger GDP, which is fine but it also means that hardly any of that money is trickling down to the 99% who live in worse conditions than the people of Pakistan.

We also have to factor in where a lot of this money is coming from. It is not Indian made but through large chunks of western investment, which also occurs in Pakistan but on a far lesser scale.

I think if someone wanted to live a better, happier, less discriminated life with less chance of disease and better access to bathroom facilities, they would choose Pakistan.

Only problem is what you think is not whats happening.

Minorities are fleeing pakistan.

Recently a large number of people were found to be infected with Hiv in larkana. Polio is still considered endemic in pakistan. And so on.

45% of pakistani urban population live in slums. In India its 24%.

According to WaterAid 42% of pakistanis lack basic toilet facilities.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/dail...kistanis-still-lack-decent-toilet-report/amp/

 

[barah_admi]

Only problem is what you think is not whats happening.

Minorities are fleeing pakistan.

Recently a large number of people were found to be infected with Hiv in larkana. Polio is still considered endemic in pakistan. And so on.

45% of pakistani urban population live in slums. In India its 24%.

According to WaterAid 42% of pakistanis lack basic toilet facilities.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/dail...kistanis-still-lack-decent-toilet-report/amp/

Which minorities are fleeing Pakistan and how many of them are there?

Yes, the HIV situation in Larkhana was terrible but it was a possibly criminal offense which can be stamped out. The spread of HIV in India is due to day to day causes such as poor hygiene control, drug use and prostitution.

According to UNICEF, over half the Indian population defacates in the open. To put it easily, that is 2.5 x the population of Pakistan itself.

I did not say these issues did not occur in Pakistan, I merely responded that they are much worse in the so called flourishing neighbour

Since you wanted to get involved in this discussion, how come India's growing GDP has made it one of the unhappiest places on Earth? Or why it has the largest child trafficking ring on the planet? Or why it can not control the spread of blood borne diseases like the western powers can?

Thanks again.

 

[Technics 1210]

India's GDP growth is under investigation. How can a country claim to have a high gdp growth but also have the highest level of unemployment in its history?

The whistleblower was none other than an Indian who was then sacked from bank of India duties.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India might look like a rubbish tip now, but the day is not far off when they will be able to laugh in the face of British Pakistanis, and then I will pack my bags and leave this site forever. Perhaps applying for a visa to gain residency in Incredible India.

Only 10 more years to go!

 

[hurricanes]

Why are Indian Americans doing better than Pakistani Americans?
Why are Indians in Britain doing better than Pakistanis?
Is it any surprise that Indians in India are doing better than Pakistanis in Pakistan?

 

[hurricanes]

India is a country on the upward trajectory and UK downward.Very few educated Indians would volunteer to immigrate to UK even now.Forget about in the future.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Pakistan has all the problems that India has and then some more. However, Pakistan does not even have half of what India has achieved in the last 30 years.

The gap between the two countries is growing each day. In 20 years, India will be competing with China while Pakistan will be competing with African countries.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Pakistan has all the problems that India has and then some more. However, Pakistan does not even have half of what India has achieved in the last 30 years.

The gap between the two countries is growing each day. In 20 years, India will be competing with China while Pakistan will be competing with African countries.

That's being said for the last 30 years, nothing such has happened

 

[Slog]

India is a country on the upward trajectory and UK downward.Very few educated Indians would volunteer to immigrate to UK even now.Forget about in the future.

)

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India is a country on the upward trajectory and UK downward.Very few educated Indians would volunteer to immigrate to UK even now.Forget about in the future.

Someone needs to tell your PM, he is still trying to force failing Britain to accept Indian immigrants as part of a trade deal. Don't even know why Indians would want to emigrate anyway, none of them have seen the Incredible India 2030 video on youtube I presume.

 

[amvbfm]

Some people claim that corruption, criminal activities and money laundering among politicians and bureaucrats is significantly much higher in India in comparison to Pakistan.

But the key question is how come corruption failed to stop India from growing economically but has in comparison been the major reason for preventing Pakistan from realizing its true economic potential?

Is the truth that the assertion that corruption being the number 1 stumbling block to economic growth and prosperity in Pakistan a false statement? Or is the truth that perhaps corruption in India is not as high in comparison to Pakistan?

Or is the truth the level of hard work, ambition, entrepreneurial and industrial drive among the Indian people is far greater in comparison to Pakistani busines owners who are just content with whatever they can make and are unwilling to work hard, spend the money necessary to further innovate and make more extra money in business?

I would love people to debate and brain storm on this topic

It is very difficult to compare India and Pakistan given the sheer size and diversity of the former. It might not be correct to say that India is very far ahead of Pakistan as a nation as some of its backward regions are extremely backward and pull down the overall average drastically. But it would definitely be correct to assume that India's general economic direction and trajectory are a lot more positive than Pakistan's.

It is always impossible to delineate one or two main causes for such broad ranging discussions. Also without concrete facts and figures things tend to remain subjective. I think one of the major causes (and certainly not the only one) is the difference in the social structure of the two countries. India largely did away with its feudal system after independence while Pakistan has still not progressed from that stage. Sindh, areas of Punjab and Balochistan are all largely feudal with land and resources and consequently political power concentrated in a few hands. Political power is passed on dynastically and if there is any competition it also comes in the shape of rival landowning elite. There is very little political awareness let alone representation for the masses who are completely subservient to these landowning elite. Similarly, the top echelons of the armed forces and bureaucracy are also largely manned by elite families. As a result there is very little political accountability, rampant corruption and the priorities of all governments (as well as those of the other arms of the state) remain skewed towards self-interest and the maintenance of a status quo.

India's prospective growth will be driven mainly by its growing middle class which while not a very large proportion of the population is still substantial and has better access to basic amenities than the comparable class in Pakistan where there is very little social mobility and it is extremely difficult for people from the lower strata of the society to hope about achieving something. Someone in this thread cited promotion of English as national language as a difference. While i don't know about the extent of that promotion in India but i certainly know that in Pakistan the English Urdu divide is a massive barrier against progress. It is virtually impossible for a child from an Urdu medium school to make it to the top universities of the country. And this is just one of the many factors perpetuating inequality in the country.

I don't think there is much fundamentally different between the people of the two nations themselves. It is just about the general social structure, the policies of the state and the consequent opportunities (or lack thereof) that make the real difference.

 

[Technics 1210]

India is a country on the upward trajectory and UK downward.Very few educated Indians would volunteer to immigrate to UK even now.Forget about in the future.

Modi was begging the UK PM to relax immigration laws for Indians. His request was shot down in a jiffy.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...may-to-grant-more-student-visas-as-part-of-t/

 

[AZ]

WoT & its relative fallout is the key difference.

 

[Savak]

India dominates the social media platforms like Twitter, Facebook compared to Pakistan. If you search Shahid Afridi and Imran Khan right now, you will find 99 Indian users abusing the crap out of him and one Pakistani defending him.

My dad works with the top international organization and travels world wide, he paints a very bleak picture where there are just so few Pakistani's working in the UN, World Bank, IMF, in the West, in Dubai, in leadership roles versus the Indians and then we crib and complain why does the entire world listen to India vis a vis Pakistan on international issues?

 

[Napa]

Absolutely no, you overestimate us. Compared to Pakistan, China may be a superpower not India. India is comparable to Sub-Saharan African countries, because of the huge population it might give a wrong picture. Bangladesh is all set to leave India in the dust as far as per capita GDP is concerned. Many third world countries have better literacy levels, sanitation, poverty alleviation measures, health and nutrition indices, democratic credentials, pollution control, press freedom, less crime, more communal harmony. India is a joke, Pakistan is a joke as well, so yeah we will give you guys some company in the race to the bottom.

In your desire to virtue signal by bashing your own country, you have lost whatever tenuous grasp you may have had on reality.

"Bangladesh is all set to leave India in the dust as far as per capita GDP" Really? In the real world BD's 2020 per cap GDP ($1,353) is forecast to be less than half of India's ($3,200).

https://tradingeconomics.com/bangladesh/gdp-per-capita
https://tradingeconomics.com/india/gdp-per-capita

That's hardly surprising given that Bangladesh's economy is dominated by low tech manufacturing as seen from their top exports.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/bangladeshs-top-10-exports/

India in comparison has developed modern industries.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/indias-top-10-exports/

It is not inaccurate to say that Pakistan's economy has been left far behind by India's.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-exports/

The composition of exports is the most accurate metric of a country's development and only the deeply delusional would say that "India is comparable to Sub-Saharan African countries" or "India is comparable to Sub-Saharan African countries".

I know you crave the accolades that you receive for bashing your own country, but do try to maintain a minimal touch with reality.

 

[Swashbuckler]

I know you crave the accolades that you receive for bashing your own country

How about you mind your business rather than these useless speculations? If I were to analyze your character won't make for pleasant reading. I recall how in the past you said you wouldn't engage with me (after you were caught lying about the Nehru UNSC seat), better if you stick to that stance.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Pakistan focused more on religion while India focused on education. Results are what you see now.

 

[RajBan]

In reality Pakistan is pretty affluent in certain areas. Pakistani Punjab as a state and urban centres in Pakistan are pretty prosperous with very good infrastructure, manufacturing hubs, an upwardly mobile population who have enough liquidity and assets. The stats often are wrong and deceiving as I am sure lots of people don't like to show their actual income and wealth. Ofcourse there is poverty in rural Sindh and western borders but because of it one can't overlook 40 percent of the population who are pretty well off.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How about you mind your business rather than these useless speculations? If I were to analyze your character won't make for pleasant reading. I recall how in the past you said you wouldn't engage with me (after you were caught lying about the Nehru UNSC seat), better if you stick to that stance.

Lying? Reputed media organisations said the same.

You are the guy who claims to be Indian and said that Pakistanis should not hold any grudge against sout Indians as only North Indians are involved in battles and wars against Pakistan and south Indians have no ill feelings.

 

[Savak]

Pakistan focused more on religion while India focused on education. Results are what you see now.

India has its fair share of extremists as well. But I agree India diversified its investments a lot smartly compared to Pakistan

 

[daytrader]

Secularism, diversity, democracy the characteristics that were once strengths of India are now on the back burner with the Hinduvata ideology taking over. India may still be progressing economically but the population mindset is certainly regressing

 

[Swashbuckler]

Lying? Reputed media organisations said the same.

Now you have joined to defend your friend? All points were made on that thread, I didn't see counter arguments there. You guys simply said you won't engage when asked some questions and fled the thread.

You are the guy who claims to be Indian and said that Pakistanis should not hold any grudge against sout Indians as only North Indians are involved in battles and wars against Pakistan and south Indians have no ill feelings.

I am Indian (unless you don't consider TN to be part of India, your problem), don't give nationality certificates to others, this isn't BJP IT cell forum. Nice of you to select a part of a long post and give your own meaning, go to that thread and read the entire thing first, I must have made multiple posts there. I am not obliged to repeat all that here, unrelated thread.

Coming to Napa, I typed my answer to his post till I read the last sentence. If people don't know how to discuss like civilized beings keeping away personal jabs I think I will take the offer of no engagement.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan got paralyzed due to USA's war on terror. That was the breaking point.

India didn't have any such distraction.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Lying? Reputed media organisations said the same.

You are the guy who claims to be Indian and said that Pakistanis should not hold any grudge against sout Indians as only North Indians are involved in battles and wars against Pakistan and south Indians have no ill feelings.

Lying )..

Yeah we all know how smart Nehru is don't we ?

I mean what kind of clown would make an internal matter a world wide UN matter ? Our boy Nehru. When all of Kashmir legally became part of India, he decided that India should only keep part of it and also made it a UN dispute... I am surprised Nehru did not offer the UNSC seat to Pakistan..

Nehru AKA the greatest hero of Pakistan...

 

[Slog]

Lol at the idea of indian flourishing.’ Nahi chahiye aisi flourishing

 

[IndianHero]

India isn't flourishing in terms of western standards.

But yes it's position is better than it was 10 years ago but still long way to go in terms of western standards.

 

[Local.Dada]

Pakistan got paralyzed due to USA's war on terror. That was the breaking point.

India didn't have any such distraction.

They were not forced into it were they? You are responsible for your own decisions.

Also the fact that after all that war, the main target was found in the very same backyard didn’t help future prospects either.

Anyways this is recent though right?

1971 was a blunder

Kargil war when there was a sincere attempt of resolving all issues and birthing the hatchet

1980s war against USSR

I can go on and on.

After few blunders in the early days like China War or taking the Kashmir issue to UN, India has made less errors relatively speaking.

In cricket context, I would say this comparison is like watching a low quality minnow game in the previous World Cups where one minnow crushes the other one because they have relatively speaking a couple of world class players and make less mistakes. The sheer dominance of the other side doesn’t really make it a world beater but let’s just say a lot more efficient than its rival.

 

[Napa]

How about you mind your business rather than these useless speculations? If I were to analyze your character won't make for pleasant reading. I recall how in the past you said you wouldn't engage with me (after you were caught lying about the Nehru UNSC seat), better if you stick to that stance.

I must be living rent-free in your head if you write about something I may have said about Nehru a long time ago, which I do not myself remember.

India's per cap GDP is twice of Bangladesh's and the gap is growing (the links I posted have figures for 2018 and 2020). To write "Bangladesh is all set to leave India in the dust as far as per capita GDP" is objectively delusional. Instead of correcting yourself, you write about Nehru?

Instead of getting triggered, you would have received respect if you simply said "Sorry, I got that one wrong".

 

[Slog]

I must be living rent-free in your head if you write about something I may have said about Nehru a long time ago, which I do not myself remember.

India's per cap GDP is twice of Bangladesh's and the gap is growing (the links I posted have figures for 2018 and 2020). To write "Bangladesh is all set to leave India in the dust as far as per capita GDP" is objectively delusional. Instead of correcting yourself, you write about Nehru?

Instead of getting triggered, you would have received respect if you simply said "Sorry, I got that one wrong".

Well tbf and I remember this too - you did claim India was offered a UNSC seat and that Nehru rejected it but could not come up with any evidence when asked to do so.

This is nature of forums. People rarely apologise and accept they were wrong. If they did then you yourself would need to write one long post too.

 

[Napa]

Well tbf and I remember this too - you did claim India was offered a UNSC seat and that Nehru rejected it but could not come up with any evidence when asked to do so.

This is nature of forums. People rarely apologise and accept they were wrong. If they did then you yourself would need to write one long post too.

There are many credible links that say Nehru rejected a permanent UN seat. So I will have to politely characterize "you did claim India was offered a UNSC seat and that Nehru rejected it but could not come up with any evidence when asked to do so" as a "misstatement" unless you actually point to which thread you are referring to, in which case I will take a look.

I don't have time to go searching PP for what I may or may not have said about Nehru, but I did do a quick Google search.

I started typing "Nehru rej". Yes, I only got as far as the letter "j", and Google very helpfully offered the search suggestion "nehru rejected un permanent seat". It seems to be quite a popular idea.

As for the credible links, here are a few:

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/public...-and-the-united-nations-security-council-1950
https://thewire.in/diplomacy/when-n...-bait-on-a-permanent-seat-for-india-at-the-un

Nehru made it clear that though India deserved a permanent seat in the UNSC, it won’t grab it at the expense of China, which was also a candidate for the same seat. As a great country, Nehru argued, China should first find its rightful place in the UNSC and India’s case could be considered separately.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/anal...u-s-mistake/story-VhXC2ltVtmrtC7v3Q15aaO.html

The joker, India's biggest disaster, was well rewarded for his China infatuation by the Chinese 1962 attack at which point he meekly folded.

 

[Slog]

There are many credible links that say Nehru rejected a permanent UN seat. So I will have to politely characterize "you did claim India was offered a UNSC seat and that Nehru rejected it but could not come up with any evidence when asked to do so" as a "misstatement" unless you actually point to which thread you are referring to, in which case I will take a look.

I don't have time to go searching PP for what I may or may not have said about Nehru, but I did do a quick Google search.

I started typing "Nehru rej". Yes, I only got as far as the letter "j", and Google very helpfully offered the search suggestion "nehru rejected un permanent seat". It seems to be quite a popular idea.

As for the credible links, here are a few:

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/public...-and-the-united-nations-security-council-1950
https://thewire.in/diplomacy/when-n...-bait-on-a-permanent-seat-for-india-at-the-un



The joker, India's biggest disaster, was well rewarded for his China infatuation by the Chinese 1962 attack at which point he meekly folded.

For India to reject a permanent seat, it has to be offered one in the first place which it was never offered. At the most there were some discussions on offering India a seat Instead of China out of spite for China as they were and now are a greater threat. India’s role would have been that of a pawn. There was no formal offer.

Hence why the statement ‘Nehru rejected UN permanent seat’ is false and a lie. You cannot reject something which you didn’t get offered in the first place. You weren’t able to point to evidence of a formal offer back then and neither have you now.

I really do not care for Nehru’s legacy either way so whether he was a disaster or not is irrelevant to me even if he is praised by western leaders even today while being on same podium as Modi and in a rally for modi. But just pointing out facts

 

[Napa]

For India to reject a permanent seat, it has to be offered one in the first place which it was never offered. At the most there were some discussions on offering India a seat Instead of China out of spite for China as they were and now are a greater threat. India’s role would have been that of a pawn. There was no formal offer.

Hence why the statement ‘Nehru rejected UN permanent seat’ is false and a lie. You cannot reject something which you didn’t get offered in the first place. You weren’t able to point to evidence of a formal offer back then and neither have you now.

I really do not care for Nehru’s legacy either way so whether he was a disaster or not is irrelevant to me even if he is praised by western leaders even today while being on same podium as Modi and in a rally for modi. But just pointing out facts

I am not really interested in semantics unless you can point to actual posts that I allegedly made that you claim to remember.

 

[Slog]

I am not really interested in semantics unless you can point to actual posts that I allegedly made that you claim to remember.

Running away again. This is what you did last time too when you couldn’t back up a claim.

You literally claimed Again on this page few posts ago that ‘Nehru rejected a UNSC permanent seat’ so I don’t even need to go back.

But yea you can run away and claim ‘semantics.’ But better open up a dictionary and understand what it means.

 

[Giannis]

Flourish in what way? What is your metric?

I don't think India necessarily flourished, its economy is currently in a better state than Pakistan's however as a state I don't think they're any better and may even be worse in certain areas. Pakistan had outperformed India from 1947 up until the early 90s, so India has only "out flourished" Pakistan these past 3 decades.

I don't think its because they're less corrupt, in fact I'd say they're equally bad. The reason why India has been able to attract a lot of foreign investment is because they used their size to their advantage, India is the worlds second largest market by population and by a long stretch - it has 4 times the population of the next populous country, the US. So all India did in the early 90s was opened up its huge market and workforce to the world that was previously closed due to India's soviet-influenced economic policies. The Indian government or business community didn't do anything extraordinary to attract investment, all they did was adopt free market policies and let the physics of India's size do its thing and that was enough because they didn't need to market the fact that they have over 1 billion people. No matter who's in power - corrupt or honest, India was bound to get a lot of foreign investment.

Also political stability and a safe neighborhood played a huge rule, India is in not as volatile a neighborhood as Pakistan is. Pakistan plugged India's ancient invasion corridor and most of India IT industry is in the deep south, far away from any borders, it's like whole different world.

 

[Buffet]

Currently, Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group.


The Government of India’s Right to Education Act has been instrumental in the reduction of the number of Out of School Children (OOSC) aged 6 to 14 years, from 13.46 million in 2006 to six million in 2014 (Source: RI-IMRB Surveys, 2009 and 2014).

https://www.unicef.org/pakistan/education

------------------

India is hardly fourishing, but doing better than Pakistan and gap is going to get larger in near future. You can't have a bright future when 44% of school aged kids are out of school. Resource needs to be redirected from army to education, but why will army allow it so easily.

22M out of school in Pakistan - Population 200M
6M out of school in India - Population 1.3B

It should tell entire story.

 

[ElRaja]

India dominates the social media platforms like Twitter, Facebook compared to Pakistan. If you search Shahid Afridi and Imran Khan right now, you will find 99 Indian users abusing the crap out of him and one Pakistani defending him.

My dad works with the top international organization and travels world wide, he paints a very bleak picture where there are just so few Pakistani's working in the UN, World Bank, IMF, in the West, in Dubai, in leadership roles versus the Indians and then we crib and complain why does the entire world listen to India vis a vis Pakistan on international issues?

the first is simply a matter of numbers, they are the largest english speaking national group in the world, who will compete with that, the only thing to do is ignore them, they exist for their own entertainment, let them be.

the second issue is a far greater problem, as this is happening in all major institutions, the real issue is that there is no network effect for pakistanis, who for the most part have ended up in the small sclae self employed sector in europe, taxis, grocery stores, etc, or labour class in middle east.

i believe there are a fair amount of well heeled ex pat pakistanis in the usa, but dont think they have a massive connection to their "pakistaniat", or the critical mass to be an effective political block. what would really be a positive is for business people to develop networks to mentor young ethnic pakistani people into the world of work, and large scale business.

until that is done Pakistanis cant compete with the sheer numbers and prevalent anti Pakistani sentiment of the indian community that hold significantly greater international influence.

 

[Bigboii]

Flourish in what way? What is your metric?

I don't think India necessarily flourished, its economy is currently in a better state than Pakistan's however as a state I don't think they're any better and may even be worse in certain areas. Pakistan had outperformed India from 1947 up until the early 90s, so India has only "out flourished" Pakistan these past 3 decades.

I don't think its because they're less corrupt, in fact I'd say they're equally bad. The reason why India has been able to attract a lot of foreign investment is because they used their size to their advantage, India is the worlds second largest market by population and by a long stretch - it has 4 times the population of the next populous country, the US. So all India did in the early 90s was opened up its huge market and workforce to the world that was previously closed due to India's soviet-influenced economic policies. The Indian government or business community didn't do anything extraordinary to attract investment, all they did was adopt free market policies and let the physics of India's size do its thing and that was enough because they didn't need to market the fact that they have over 1 billion people. No matter who's in power - corrupt or honest, India was bound to get a lot of foreign investment.

Also political stability and a safe neighborhood played a huge rule, India is in not as volatile a neighborhood as Pakistan is. Pakistan plugged India's ancient invasion corridor and most of India IT industry is in the deep south, far away from any borders, it's like whole different world.

No need to duck we just need to get better and fix our issues

 

[Giannis]

Currently, Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group.


The Government of India’s Right to Education Act has been instrumental in the reduction of the number of Out of School Children (OOSC) aged 6 to 14 years, from 13.46 million in 2006 to six million in 2014 (Source: RI-IMRB Surveys, 2009 and 2014).

https://www.unicef.org/pakistan/education

------------------

India is hardly fourishing, but doing better than Pakistan and gap is going to get larger in near future. You can't have a bright future when 44% of school aged kids are out of school. Resource needs to be redirected from army to education, but why will army allow it so easily.

22M out of school in Pakistan - Population 200M
6M out of school in India - Population 1.3B

It should tell entire story.

I would take the figures given by the Indian govt with a grain of salt. It just mathematically makes no sense that a poor resource-deficient country like India with inept govt structures only has 6 million out of school kids out of 1.3 billion people.

The Indian govt has been known to lie, they've fudged GDP figures in the past, so I would never believe any data put out by them. I know your link is from UNICEF but they rely heavily on local govts to report.

 

[Buffet]

I would take the figures given by the Indian govt with a grain of salt. It just mathematically makes no sense that a poor resource-deficient country like India with inept govt structures only has 6 million out of school kids out of 1.3 billion people.

The Indian govt has been known to lie, they've fudged GDP figures in the past, so I would never believe any data put out by them. I know your link is from UNICEF but they rely heavily on local govts to report.

All data is reported by local governments. Even if Indian data are wrong by factor of 2-3 times, it's manifold better situation than Pakistan.

Forget about any Indian reports, simply think about self reported 44% school aged kids being out of school in any country. It's as bad as it can get for future generation.

 

[PetroDollars]

The third world didnt start booming till 90s, thats when globalisation kicked in, both pakistan and india were slow to catch it and china cashed in, then india became a beneficiary of american IT being outsourced.

Pakistan wasn't really a victim of the WoT as some suggest either, as during the first period of Mush in 1999-2004, Pakistan was growing faster then China and India, manufacturing was expanding at an unprecedented rate, it was political unstability after that and militant groups taking over with daily bombings in the city and the judiciary crisis, followed by PPP gov. increasing taxes on these industries and power outages that the economy collapsed.

However i dont really consider outsourcing due to globalisation as real progress, this is just slave work for the west, real progress comes from innovation which is non-existant in this part of the world and even china struggles with it.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Not really sure abt the definition of flourished but i dont think that India has evolved much beyond benefiting from the IT outsourcing (and IT related labour export).

Problem faced by Pakistani are multi-fold:
1. General bias of the west against Islamic countries.
2. Having to engage in on-going US’s war on terror. Normal pakistanis don’t benefit at all from this and all the $$$ given by the US only lines the pockets of Army generals and corrupt politicians. In return the ordinary Pakistanis get to deal with influx of Afghan refugees and with that domestic terrorism (bomb blasts), influx of drugs and weapons via Afghanistan.
3. Tight control of army and the feudal lords. India did much better in this regard, as they had land reforms after indelible and feudals had to give up their estates, that were gifted to them for being loyal to the British masters. Where as in Pakistan the Bhuttos and Sharifs are still ruling the roost.

I went to india 7-8 years ago and was surprised to realise How much more diverse it is compared to Pakistan. Still they are managing to keep things in control. Even in India some states like Gujrat are dominant but still all others are tagging along.


Having said that if all things were equal, both Pakistan and India would ve progressed in a very similar because we are essentially the same people in most regards.

 

[chazam]

Not really sure abt the definition of flourished but i dont think that India has evolved much beyond benefiting from the IT outsourcing (and IT related labour export).

Problem faced by Pakistani are multi-fold:
1. General bias of the west against Islamic countries.
2. Having to engage in on-going US’s war on terror. Normal pakistanis don’t benefit at all from this and all the $$$ given by the US only lines the pockets of Army generals and corrupt politicians. In return the ordinary Pakistanis get to deal with influx of Afghan refugees and with that domestic terrorism (bomb blasts), influx of drugs and weapons via Afghanistan.
3. Tight control of army and the feudal lords. India did much better in this regard, as they had land reforms after indelible and feudals had to give up their estates, that were gifted to them for being loyal to the British masters. Where as in Pakistan the Bhuttos and Sharifs are still ruling the roost.

I went to india 7-8 years ago and was surprised to realise How much more diverse it is compared to Pakistan. Still they are managing to keep things in control. Even in India some states like Gujrat are dominant but still all others are tagging along.


Having said that if all things were equal, both Pakistan and India would ve progressed in a very similar because we are essentially the same people in most regards.

Agreed about ppl being same. Feudal system was abolished in 70’s. It’s still there in some parts and India is a large diverse country which is hard to mdd as manage.
About the fighting Usa war, what option did Musharraf had? America was like a mad bull looking to raze anyone in its path. What do you think could have been handled differently?

 

[Knight_Rider]

Agreed about ppl being same. Feudal system was abolished in 70’s. It’s still there in some parts and India is a large diverse country which is hard to mdd as manage.
About the fighting Usa war, what option did Musharraf had? America was like a mad bull looking to raze anyone in its path. What do you think could have been handled differently?

I agree that Mush had no choice but Pak has been fighting the US war long before (against Soviets in Afghanistan) and non-stop since Musharaf. I can’t believe that some tribals from backward country like Afghanistan could ve been capable of causing all the mayhem that they are credited for by the US. So in reality its a bit of a Phantom created by the US for its wider interests.

Never the less unlike Musharaf, the rest of the army generals didnt spend any of the american $$$ on public. They just cashed in at the expense of Pakistani tax payer (or loan provider).

As for the feudal system, are you sure that it was abolished in Pakistan in 70s? We ve feudal lords in Sindh and Punjab, where the majority of population lives.

 

[chazam]

I agree that Mush had no choice but Pak has been fighting the US war long before (against Soviets in Afghanistan) and non-stop since Musharaf. I can’t believe that some tribals from backward country like Afghanistan could ve been capable of causing all the mayhem that they are credited for by the US. So in reality its a bit of a Phantom created by the US for its wider interests.

Never the less unlike Musharaf, the rest of the army generals didnt spend any of the american $$$ on public. They just cashed in at the expense of Pakistani tax payer (or loan provider).

As for the feudal system, are you sure that it was abolished in Pakistan in 70s? We ve feudal lords in Sindh and Punjab, where the majority of population lives.

I meant abolished in India in the 70s.. these thekedaar Jameedaars were forced by Indira government during green revolution those days.not sure how much of that is done in Pakistan

 

[pillionrider]

Indians under Modi are totally confused. On the one hand we are supposed to become Vishwagurus, on the other, we are supposed to feel excited at the alleged better life compared to a country that is otherwise labelled failed and living on charity.

Most of India is poor. Most of Pakistan is poor. And that's where the comparisons should end.

 

[Rajdeep]

Pak economy size shrinks to $264 bn

ISLAMABAD: With the contraction of Pakistan’s GDP growth rate that falls into zero range at negative -0.38 percent for the outgoing fiscal year, the total size of the country’s economy and per capita income are expected to shrink significantly in terms of dollar in post Covid-19 pandemic.

The total size of Pakistan’s economy in terms of dollars has decreased up to US$264 billion for outgoing fiscal year 2019-20 against revised estimates of US$279 billion. Meanwhile, Pakistan’s per capita income had also nosedived into US$1,271 during the current fiscal year 2019-20 against US$1,363 for the last financial year 2018-19. The government has failed to achieve the GDP growth rate target as it stood negative at -0.4 percent against the estimated fixed target of positive 3.3 percent for the outgoing fiscal year. The growth rate plunged into the negative zone for the first time in the last 68 years as it had reached once into the negative zone at 1.8 percent during the financial year of 1951-52.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/660853-pak-economy-size-shrinks-to-264-bn

Lower than Bangladesh economy now which is $284 billion. Worrying.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Indians under Modi are totally confused. On the one hand we are supposed to become Vishwagurus, on the other, we are supposed to feel excited at the alleged better life compared to a country that is otherwise labelled failed and living on charity.

Most of India is poor. Most of Pakistan is poor. And that's where the comparisons should end.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Talk of India flourishing is just an embarrassment for sensible Indians, regardless of what Pakistan's situation is. Any outsider looking in is just going to see poor sanitation and terrible infrastructure.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pak economy size shrinks to $264 bn

ISLAMABAD: With the contraction of Pakistan’s GDP growth rate that falls into zero range at negative -0.38 percent for the outgoing fiscal year, the total size of the country’s economy and per capita income are expected to shrink significantly in terms of dollar in post Covid-19 pandemic.

The total size of Pakistan’s economy in terms of dollars has decreased up to US$264 billion for outgoing fiscal year 2019-20 against revised estimates of US$279 billion. Meanwhile, Pakistan’s per capita income had also nosedived into US$1,271 during the current fiscal year 2019-20 against US$1,363 for the last financial year 2018-19. The government has failed to achieve the GDP growth rate target as it stood negative at -0.4 percent against the estimated fixed target of positive 3.3 percent for the outgoing fiscal year. The growth rate plunged into the negative zone for the first time in the last 68 years as it had reached once into the negative zone at 1.8 percent during the financial year of 1951-52.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/660853-pak-economy-size-shrinks-to-264-bn

Lower than Bangladesh economy now which is $284 billion. Worrying.

Bangladesh is a bigger economy than Pakistan?

 

[pillionrider]

Pakistan focused more on religion while India focused on education.

Did you leave India before this happened?

Yeah we all know how smart Nehru is don't we ?

I mean what kind of clown would make an internal matter a world wide UN matter ? Our boy Nehru. When all of Kashmir legally became part of India, he decided that India should only keep part of it and also made it a UN dispute... I am surprised Nehru did not offer the UNSC seat to Pakistan..

Nehru AKA the greatest hero of Pakistan...

And yet, Modiji can't stop obsessing over him. Even his latest Atmanirbhar is a localized, 2nd standard version of Nehru's self-reliance motto

 

[Firebat]

Indians under Modi are totally confused. On the one hand we are supposed to become Vishwagurus, on the other, we are supposed to feel excited at the alleged better life compared to a country that is otherwise labelled failed and living on charity.

Most of India is poor. Most of Pakistan is poor. And that's where the comparisons should end.

Yet both sides are so intent on ripping the other country for no reason while their own people are suffering.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yet both sides are so intent on ripping the other country for no reason while their own people are suffering.

I think Pakistanis are mostly pretty grounded when it comes to their place in the world. You will often see threads like this, there's another one about Bangladesh overtaking Pakistan running at the moment. It's pretty obvious trolling, or maybe some disaffected Pakistani who thinks every other country in the world is the best place to live.

 

[Napa]

Pak economy size shrinks to $264 bn

ISLAMABAD: With the contraction of Pakistan’s GDP growth rate that falls into zero range at negative -0.38 percent for the outgoing fiscal year, the total size of the country’s economy and per capita income are expected to shrink significantly in terms of dollar in post Covid-19 pandemic.

The total size of Pakistan’s economy in terms of dollars has decreased up to US$264 billion for outgoing fiscal year 2019-20 against revised estimates of US$279 billion. Meanwhile, Pakistan’s per capita income had also nosedived into US$1,271 during the current fiscal year 2019-20 against US$1,363 for the last financial year 2018-19. The government has failed to achieve the GDP growth rate target as it stood negative at -0.4 percent against the estimated fixed target of positive 3.3 percent for the outgoing fiscal year. The growth rate plunged into the negative zone for the first time in the last 68 years as it had reached once into the negative zone at 1.8 percent during the financial year of 1951-52.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/660853-pak-economy-size-shrinks-to-264-bn

Lower than Bangladesh economy now which is $284 billion. Worrying.

Bangladesh is a bigger economy than Pakistan?

Bangladesh's GDP is larger while its population (161 million) is smaller than Pakistan's (212 million). That makes its per cap GDP significantly larger than Pakistan's.

Call it the revenge of the low-lying people from the low-lying land.

https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2017/04/21/bangladesh-forgotten-genocide/

 

[Knight_Rider]

Genuine Question:
Despite all the wealth and white collar jobs, why do most Indians look weak and malnourished?
Is it case of Money cant buy you ‘looks’ and ‘Health’ or what?

Btw: i ve seen plenty of blue collar working class indians in many european and gulf countries. Places like Southall and Hounslow are full of them.

 

[Local.Dada]

Genuine Question:
Despite all the wealth and white collar jobs, why do most Indians look weak and malnourished?
Is it case of Money cant buy you ‘looks’ and ‘Health’ or what?

Btw: i ve seen plenty of blue collar working class indians in many european and gulf countries. Places like Southall and Hounslow are full of them.

How do you define looks? and why do looks matter if someone is intelligent,hard working and is an overall good person?

Anyway malnourished Indians have won more medals in physical and stamina related sports like Boxing,Wrestling, Badminton etc than any of those apparently chiseled,super strong and handsome men.

May be that's the entire premise of the thread, why aren't these handsome and strong men being put to productive use rather than letting them take up violent activities, I am sure there is so much wasted potential there. Good you brought this up. That sums up the entire debate I guess.

 

[Syed1]

Bangladesh's GDP is larger while its population (161 million) is smaller than Pakistan's (212 million). That makes its per cap GDP significantly larger than Pakistan's.

Call it the revenge of the low-lying people from the low-lying land.

https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2017/04/21/bangladesh-forgotten-genocide/

Contrary to popular belief most Pakistanis are happy if BD does well. Obviously Indians are rejoicing and bumping such threads to troll Pakistanis but you can gauge by the lack of response to your trolling how Pakistanis view this news. Most of us wish to see BD go onto be a rich and prosperous nation soon inshallah, irrespective of how Pakistan is doing economically

 

[Mesozoic]

How do you define looks? and why do looks matter if someone is intelligent,hard working and is an overall good person?

Anyway malnourished Indians have won more medals in physical and stamina related sports like Boxing,Wrestling, Badminton etc than any of those apparently chiseled,super strong and handsome men.

May be that's the entire premise of the thread, why aren't these handsome and strong men being put to productive use rather than letting them take up violent activities, I am sure there is so much wasted potential there. Good you brought this up. That sums up the entire debate I guess.

It's just another one of those delusions in our dear neighbors that Indians are weak, malnourished, small etc etc.

Whereas in real life, we won 8 times the total medals won by Pakistan at the last Asian games in just the physical sports like wrestling, Boxing and Athletics. If we include semi-physical sport like kabaddi, Badminton etc it will get even more embarrassing.

 

[hafeezrocks]

It's just another one of those delusions in our dear neighbors that Indians are weak, malnourished, small etc etc.

Whereas in real life, we won 8 times the total medals won by Pakistan at the last Asian games in just the physical sports like wrestling, Boxing and Athletics. If we include semi-physical sport like kabaddi, Badminton etc it will get even more embarrassing.

India won more medals than Afghanistan in Asian games ( I suppose). Does it mean Average Indian is physically superior or even equal to an Average Afghan? LOL

 

[Local.Dada]

It's just another one of those delusions in our dear neighbors that Indians are weak, malnourished, small etc etc.

Whereas in real life, we won 8 times the total medals won by Pakistan at the last Asian games in just the physical sports like wrestling, Boxing and Athletics. If we include semi-physical sport like kabaddi, Badminton etc it will get even more embarrassing.

in fact I forgot to mention that one of our women also won a olympic medal in power lifting, I mean can't have a more convincing argument than that

I know these are delusions from some neighbors but it is just fun to play along some times. It is very amusing

 

[Local.Dada]

India won more medals than Afghanistan in Asian games ( I suppose). Does it mean Average Indian is physically superior or even equal to an Average Afghan? LOL

OMG has nothing what I wrote got through to you?

To answer your question.No, it doesn't mean that however it shows that India despite having this so called physical handicap of having weak and malnourished people are punching above their weight (no pun intended) to win medals and become role models and inspire others where as these physically superior men are just being wasted clearly.

So read that think again and put it into the context of the OP question- for your convenience which says despite having similar problems how come India is doing better than Pakistan

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

in fact I forgot to mention that one of our women also won a olympic medal in power lifting, I mean can't have a more convincing argument than that

I know these are delusions from some neighbors but it is just fun to play along some times. It is very amusing

Yes, keep playing along. I'm sure you guys are repeatedly stung into replying to these malnourished jibes just to play along.

 

[Local.Dada]

Yes, keep playing along. I'm sure you guys are repeatedly stung into replying to these malnourished jibes just to play along.

First thing, trust me the way I let myself go, someone calling me looking malnourished would be taken as a compliment

Anyways I am just pointing to the dumb argument or the premise of the post which was definitely amusing

 

[Mesozoic]

India won more medals than Afghanistan in Asian games ( I suppose). Does it mean Average Indian is physically superior or even equal to an Average Afghan? LOL

No single human race in the world is "physically superior" to any of it's other counterparts. Stop believing in this nonsense.

 

[Knight_Rider]

How do you define looks? and why do looks matter if someone is intelligent,hard working and is an overall good person?

Anyway malnourished Indians have won more medals in physical and stamina related sports like Boxing,Wrestling, Badminton etc than any of those apparently chiseled,super strong and handsome men.

May be that's the entire premise of the thread, why aren't these handsome and strong men being put to productive use rather than letting them take up violent activities, I am sure there is so much wasted potential there. Good you brought this up. That sums up the entire debate I guess.

Just look at any prominent indian like Modi, Mithun, Tendulkar, Gandhi, Nehru etc it looks like they have been suffering from malnutrition.

As for winning the medals in physically demanding sports, it depends on how you are defining it. If its Badminton or Karate, then may be but i doubt that Indian will ve much luck in Boxing, Wrestling etc What i am referring to is the thin bone structure, short stature and lack of muscle mass.

 

[Knight_Rider]

in fact I forgot to mention that one of our women also won a olympic medal in power lifting, I mean can't have a more convincing argument than that

I know these are delusions from some neighbors but it is just fun to play along some times. It is very amusing

Yes, its a common knowledge that Indian men are even weaker than Indian women.

 

[Knight_Rider]

No single human race in the world is "physically superior" to any of it's other counterparts. Stop believing in this nonsense.

Ofcourse there are visible differences in physical appearance of a Bengali vs Punjabi. Or a Marathi vs Kashmiri.

Thats just within the sub continent itself. Ever watched a field hockey match between India vs Netherlands?

 

[JaDed]

Just look at any prominent indian like Modi, Mithun, Tendulkar, Gandhi, Nehru etc it looks like they have been suffering from malnutrition.

As for winning the medals in physically demanding sports, it depends on how you are defining it. If its Badminton or Karate, then may be but i doubt that Indian will ve much luck in Boxing, Wrestling etc What i am referring to is the thin bone structure, short stature and lack of muscle mass.

Sushil Kumar a vegetarian world champion has two olympic medals in wrestling.
We have boxing medals again in Olympics from Manipur and Haryana as wel.

 

[JaDed]

Must be hard for some to see a Kumar winning two Olympic medals and also being a wrestling world champion inspite of continuously ridiculing Kumars and claiming them to be weak.

 

[Swashbuckler]

This thread is a pretty accurate summary of why South Asia lags behind East Asia, even South East Asia for that matter. We are content with incremental success, happy if we are marginally better somewhere compared to next door neighbors, no high ambition or culture of excellence. 20% of the world population folks, one thing we excel at is bragging over trivial stuff and one-upmanship over the enemy nation no matter how trite, that is the only area where we are undisputed world beaters.

The day India starts comparing itself to China and with positive spirit, the day Pakistan sets its standard to a country like Brazil, maybe then we will get somewhere. Need to draw lessons from China, South Korea (even Malaysia) which were at a similar level in the 50s and 60s but then improved dramatically in all aspects.

 

[Local.Dada]

Just look at any prominent indian like Modi, Mithun, Tendulkar, Gandhi, Nehru etc it looks like they have been suffering from malnutrition.

As for winning the medals in physically demanding sports, it depends on how you are defining it. If its Badminton or Karate, then may be but i doubt that Indian will ve much luck in Boxing, Wrestling etc What i am referring to is the thin bone structure, short stature and lack of muscle mass.

Let me try this one last time.

Firstly for starters Indians do have olympic medals in Wrestling and Boxing. Now since we got that away which wasn't even the main point let's get into what I was saying again.

Even If taking your generalization as a concrete scientific fact which to be honest sounds like it came from overhearing or participating in a kitty party with bored housewives, all I am saying is shouldn't that be appreciated instead of being held against Indians for competing at the highest level and accomplishing things? It seems to me as an underdog story that deserves nothing but respect.

Now by the same account if countries with this overflowing of studly men, what use is it if their government or admins can scout them to bring laurels to the nation? what is the use of looks and physique if you are useless, which was basically the point I was making.

Now this is in line with the topic, is it because India makes more of it's resources than Pakistan? I guess we can incorporate this easily into the topic, if you are only hung up on men's chiselled features and bodies I am sorry that topic doesn't appeal to me. Not judging, to each his own but I would assume there are probably other places on the internet were that would satisfy that need for you.

 

[JaDed]

This thread is a pretty accurate summary of why South Asia lags behind East Asia, even South East Asia for that matter. We are content with incremental success, happy if we are marginally better somewhere compared to next door neighbors, no high ambition or culture of excellence. 20% of the world population folks, one thing we excel at is bragging over trivial stuff and one-upmanship over the enemy nation no matter how trite, that is the only area where we are undisputed world beaters.

The day India starts comparing itself to China and with positive spirit, the day Pakistan sets its standard to a country like Brazil, maybe then we will get somewhere. Need to draw lessons from China, South Korea (even Malaysia) which were at a similar level in the 50s and 60s but then improved dramatically in all aspects.

No country can imitate other, Chinese model would be unacceptable in India as seen in 1975.(eventhough personally am all for it).

Comparison with other countries are are not required but neither is ridiculing esp based on religion and nationality which has become common to see.

Haryana and Manipur have good sport models to follow in India, socially Haryana is not right but their sport culture can be adopted by other states due to its rural India similarities and Manipur’s model can be used for smaller states esp the entire NE.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Must be hard for some to see a Kumar winning two Olympic medals and also being a wrestling world champion inspite of continuously ridiculing Kumars and claiming them to be weak.

Let people wallow in their ignorance, waste of time to even correct them IMO. But we have grown past Sushil, lot of exciting talent in our wrestling ranks, we are a second tier wrestling powerhouse alongside countries like Kazakhstan, Hungary, Iran, China etc. First tier will be USA, Japan, Russia. Pity that the Olympics got postponed, we would have won 3-4 medals in wrestling this year with a gold for Bajrang Punia, now the wait gets extended.

 

[Napa]

you can gauge by the lack of response

The phrase "a contradiction in terms" comes to mind.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Sushil Kumar a vegetarian world champion has two olympic medals in wrestling.
We have boxing medals again in Olympics from Manipur and Haryana as wel.

Just google to see who this Sushil Kumar is and even he looks quite short (5ft 5”) and thin boned. From a populated of over 1.2 billion of course there will be some exceptions. Baqi majority ki Halat itni patli kew hai?

 

[Local.Dada]

No country can imitate other, Chinese model would be unacceptable in India as seen in 1975.(eventhough personally am all for it).

Comparison with other countries are are not required but neither is ridiculing esp based on religion and nationality which has become common to see.

Haryana and Manipur have good sport models to follow in India, socially Haryana is not right but their sport culture can be adopted by other states due to its rural India similarities.

Andhra Pradesh/Telangana has produced 3 Olympic medalists. K.Malleswari- Powerlifting, Sindhu- Badminton and Saina though she is from Haryana was trained by Gopichand in Hyderabad.

Sometimes I think we are hung up in the same thought process as our neighbors like Northeast and the whole Punjab-Haryana-Delhi belt produces Athletes and there is no sporting culture elsewhere.

All it took was one guy to take the initiative like Gopichand did and the result 2 medals already and many other prospects like Kashyap,Srikanth etc in that field.

Similarly Bindra who was India's only gold medalist had a shooting range built for him in his backyard or something by his rich father.

Kind of reflects India in a way where it shows initiatives taken by independent and enthusiastic individuals rather than the government. However credit where due to the corporates and other executives who funded them as well. Also most important thing here is the Indian society. Yes our society acts as a barrier in a lot of ways but clearly there are less distractions in India than in our neighborhood.

Also South has produced Tennis stars as well Bopanna,Bhupati, Amritraj bros, Krishnan family and Sania Mirza.

All it takes is one or two icons and pathbreakers to show the way.

 

[Swashbuckler]

No country can imitate other, Chinese model would be unacceptable in India as seen in 1975.(eventhough personally am all for it).

Comparison with other countries are are not required but neither is ridiculing esp based on religion and nationality which has become common to see.

Haryana and Manipur have good sport models to follow in India, socially Haryana is not right but their sport culture can be adopted by other states due to its rural India similarities and Manipur’s model can be used for smaller states esp the entire NE.

The point I am making is that South Asians set low standards. Take current India for example, we like to compare our Olympics and Asian Games results with Pakistan (a country which hasn't won an Olympic medal since 1992), never with better sporting countries. Let us be honest, there are several countries just in Asia that will squash us in this comparison, even Iran. If we debate about secularism, minority rights some guys will start saying what about Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi, Brunei, other Muslim countries? Why not take better examples? This has become acceptable and people feel happy over making India look good over some countries.

I am sure same is the case in Pakistan, I have seen a few threads where people gloat about Pak being ranked better than India when it comes to happiness, reduction in poverty, malnutrition, pollution etc. They shouldn't compare themselves to us in various metrics, should aim higher rather than gloating over being 1% better at something than a fellow 3rd world country.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Let me try this one last time.

Firstly for starters Indians do have olympic medals in Wrestling and Boxing. Now since we got that away which wasn't even the main point let's get into what I was saying again.

Even If taking your generalization as a concrete scientific fact which to be honest sounds like it came from overhearing or participating in a kitty party with bored housewives, all I am saying is shouldn't that be appreciated instead of being held against Indians for competing at the highest level and accomplishing things? It seems to me as an underdog story that deserves nothing but respect.

Now by the same account if countries with this overflowing of studly men, what use is it if their government or admins can scout them to bring laurels to the nation? what is the use of looks and physique if you are useless, which was basically the point I was making.

Now this is in line with the topic, is it because India makes more of it's resources than Pakistan? I guess we can incorporate this easily into the topic, if you are only hung up on men's chiselled features and bodies I am sorry that topic doesn't appeal to me. Not judging, to each his own but I would assume there are probably other places on the internet were that would satisfy that need for you.

You are trying too hard. Take it easy, its just a banter. Most indians and Pakistanis look similar because we share same bloodlines. Both my parents and all grandparents were born in india and i am proud of my heritage. Its a different thing that race (and with it physique) does play a role in our society even within different tribes of the people in sub-continent. But..at the end of the day: we are what we are.

 

[Local.Dada]

The point I am making is that South Asians set low standards. Take current India for example, we like to compare our Olympics and Asian Games results with Pakistan (a country which hasn't won an Olympic medal since 1992), never with better sporting countries. Let us be honest there are several countries just in Asia that will squash us in this comparison, even Iran. If we debate about secularism, minority rights some guys will start saying what about Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi, Brunei, other Muslim countries? Why not take better examples? This has become acceptable and people feel happy over making India look good over some countries.

I am sure same is the case in Pakistan, I have seen a few threads where people gloat about Pak being ranked better than India when it comes to happiness, reduction in poverty, malnutrition, pollution etc. They shouldn't compare themselves to us in various metrics, should aim higher rather than gloating over being 1% better at something than a fellow 3rd world country.

That's all very noble. However it is misplaced in a thread that asks why India has done better than Pakistan, so not sure the need to create this equivalence that India has also underachieved and made some mistakes. I think every one acknowledges that and no one is delusional to those facts. However it is true that we have to learn from mistakes but it is also important to look at things that have been done right as well for some inspiration. They go hand in hand.

However it is a legitimate question, how come 2 countries with more or less the same overlapping cultures,traditions and languages for centuries and having more or less the same problems once separated by a man made border have taken such distinctly different paths.

 

[JaDed]

Andhra Pradesh/Telangana has produced 3 Olympic medalists. K.Malleswari- Powerlifting, Sindhu- Badminton and Saina though she is from Haryana was trained by Gopichand in Hyderabad.

Sometimes I think we are hung up in the same thought process as our neighbors like Northeast and the whole Punjab-Haryana-Delhi belt produces Athletes and there is no sporting culture elsewhere.

All it took was one guy to take the initiative like Gopichand did and the result 2 medals already and many other prospects like Kashyap,Srikanth etc in that field.

Similarly Bindra who was India's only gold medalist had a shooting range built for him in his backyard or something by his rich father.

Kind of reflects India in a way where it shows initiatives taken by independent and enthusiastic individuals rather than the government. However credit where due to the corporates and other executives who funded them as well. Also most important thing here is the Indian society. Yes our society acts as a barrier in a lot of ways but clearly there are less distractions in India than in our neighborhood.

Also South has produced Tennis stars as well Bopanna,Bhupati, Amritraj bros, Krishnan family and Sania Mirza.

All it takes is one or two icons and pathbreakers to show the way.

My point was specific to Wrestling and Boxing and also what states could do, South’s model is very individualistic (checkout hurdles faced by Gopichand) unlike Haryana , and no not Delhi or Punjab , its not the same maybe Punjabis are not as strong as Haryanvis (my fam belongs to Punjab-Delhi) anymore who knows but the sport scholarship model of Haryana is excellent and even thrives, esp for rural communities.