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How did England lose the first Test against West Indies?

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For the sake of discussion, let's forget the match selection and the build up.

But with England at home defending 200 runs, on a final day pitch with up and down bounce, against a weak and inexperienced SECOND STRING West Indies batting line-up which is missing their main batsmen in Bravo and Hetmeyer (not to mention Holder's injury leading up to the game). You would think this would be a walk in the park.

England have the superb Anderson and Stokes, who both bowled brilliantly in this match - so rustiness is not an excuse. Plus Wood bowling 90+ and Archer on top form as a bouncer specialist. West Indies were effectively 4 down for 27 with Cambell retired hurt.

So where did it go wrong? Was it the captaincy, the fielding or the bowling? I think Bess in particular was very disappointing. He allowed Windies to rebuild and was not able to build pressure and give some rest to the pacers.
 
Throwing away wickets when set in the 2nd innings and not selecting their best bowlers for English conditions in Broad and Woakes.
 
Beaten by a better team who outperformed them in every facet.
 
England is a garbage Test team now. They focused too much on LOI and allowed their Test team to decline.

I think this England team would lose against Afghanistan (and even Bangladesh) in Asia.
 
in a very pakistani way, throwing away wickets when set, and then fluffing up in the field in crunch moments.
 
Missing Root.Too much for Stokes to do.

Also they need a better attacking spinner
 
England has to be the worst home side in the last 5-6 years. They lose a couple of tests at home every summer.
 
A combination of bad luck, no crowd support and the absence of Root.
 
A combination of bad luck, no crowd support and the absence of Root.

I’ve been frustrated with Root’s lack of big innings recently, but it’s clear he was severely missed here. He seems to give confidence to the rest of the lineup and his absence puts too much pressure on Stokes.

However - going into that final innings, Root or not, England should have defended 200 comfortably.
 
Fielding of Eng on 5th day was pretty poor as well, around 3 dropped catches or missed we wanna call them along with the run out chance. WI held their nerves much better after being 23/3 and opener being retired hurt.
 
Let’s not forget England missed about 4 chances in a span of 20 minutes.
 
WI played better.

England picked the wrong side and dropped some catches.
 
Complete performance - good batting, good bowling, good fielding. You rarely lose if you're doing all of that
 
England lost because they were outplayed. Yes the team selection was flawed, Stokes had a mixed game and England missed some chances, but really they were out-bowled and out-batted throughout the match. West Indies thoroughly deserved to win.
 
England is a garbage Test team now. They focused too much on LOI and allowed their Test team to decline.

I think this England team would lose against Afghanistan (and even Bangladesh) in Asia.

They already lost in Bangladesh in 2016.
 
Root-less England team were overpowered by Windies. Great performance by them
 
We all know the role of the crowd in a test match is massively overrated. Pakistan won many games in UAE in front of empty crowds. England were just outplayed. Their batting did not perform. Their bowling attack was not as effective as the West Indies. Not playing Broad was a massive blunder and not having Root didn't help either.
 
Very simple - they were beaten by a better team. I think, problem for most here is that people judge WIN with the shambolic days in last few years. But, things have changed with the change in leadership both on & off the field. Instead of this Brooks guy, if they had Bravo, it'll be an even better team.

England was missing Root as well, both as a player & Captain. There is a reason why almost 80% times new Captains have lost their first Test. I think, they should call back 4 players - Root, Foakes, Moeen and Broad for next Test.
 
West Indies played better and England are a poorer side without Root playing.
 
Windies had the better conditions, their bowlers took advantage of the seam and and swing on day 1.
But whenever eng batted, their openers had to deal with alot of movement in both innings. Windies batted when the pitch somehow turned back to being flat

Dropped catches and drs was against eng today, bess should have picked a few wickets

Still not a excuse to lose from their position on tea time day 4. Eng gave their wickets away cheaply on a dry pitch
Mark wood bowled wayward and leaked runs, he was a big disappointment.
In contrast, Gabriel was excellent and the main reason windies won, the collapse yesterday was pivotal.

Interesting that engs lower order failed and top order succeeded,
 
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Serious questions need to be asked of the bowling attack.

It’s not enough to just say West Indies outplayed them. Windies have a great attack but in these conditions, they’re no match for the English bowlers.

Jofra is a bouncer specialist and he executed them decently in the second innings so he did his job. Anderson, Bess and Wood really let the side down. Anderson in particular as the senior bowler, in ideal conditions, when he seemed to be in good rhythm bowling with pace. He was outbowled by Gabriel and the match was lost there.
 
A combination of bad luck, no crowd support and the absence of Root.

Will you ever admit that try may just not be a very good team.
Crowd support removes home ground advantage to a degree, but doesn’t show why WI would be better
What is the bad luck, umpires calls went about 50-50 I think
WI were also missing two first choice batsmen so missing root isn’t an excuse, plus Crawley his replacement was your best bat in the 2nd innings
 
I think serious questions need to be asked!

Your bowling on a 5th day pitch that is turning and you bowl your only recognisable spinner 10 overs!!

That’s criminal!

Am surpraised no one has questioned this ?

Watching England play if our batsman can show some heart I think we have the bowlers to trouble england
 
I think serious questions need to be asked!

Your bowling on a 5th day pitch that is turning and you bowl your only recognisable spinner 10 overs!!

That’s criminal!

Am surpraised no one has questioned this ?

Watching England play if our batsman can show some heart I think we have the bowlers to trouble england

Root would have never done that mistake he would have allowed spinners to do the job or he would have bowled himself or bringing part timers like Denly to bowl.
 
They ran out of luck. England won the toss and a trigger-happy kettleborough meant that Englsmd had all the luck going for them in the first 2-3 days. On day 5, it evened out with marginal decisions not going for them . Dom Bess, in particular, was unlucky. Two marginal lbw decisions and Stokes trying to be to smart at slip.
 
England's batting was a bigger issue than Ben Stokes' decisions as they lost the first Test to an "exceptional" West Indies, says Nasser Hussain.

Stokes, standing in as captain for Joe Root in Southampton, opted to bat first in drizzly conditions and also left seamer Stuart Broad out of his first home Test since 2012.

England were rolled for 204 in their first innings and went on to lose by four wickets as West Indies chased down 200 on the final day to take a 1-0 lead in the three-match #raisethebat series.

Ben Stokes says England weren't ruthless enough as they fell to defeat in the first Test against the West Indies.
The hosts must now win the second and third Tests at Emirates Old Trafford to regain the Wisden Trophy with West Indies holding the silverware after their 2-1 victory in the Caribbean in early 2019.

"Let's not get lost with the Broad issue or the toss issue. England having batted first were bowled out for 204 - that is still their nemesis," said Hussain, who added that he would retain Zak Crawley, who top-scored for England with 76, and drop Joe Denly to accommodate Root's return.

"They did well in South Africa, but in England, against the Dukes ball, they often find themselves 20-3, 30-3, and without Root in the side this week that was a nightmare. That is still the issue for England.

"They are going to a good surface at Old Trafford. Root is back and they have to bat like they did in South Africa this winter and at points in New Zealand. Not by being 204 all out.

Highlights from the final day of the first Test between England and the West Indies.

"Sometimes as a captain you have to say 'I back my side to get 300 on this' but England fluffed their lines again with the bat after winning the toss.

"I would have Crawley at three, not just because of his runs and improvement but also his tempo. I sometimes look at the top three of Dom Sibley, Rory Burns and Denly and they are a bit one-tempo.

"Crawley is a little bit busier - even when he opened in South Africa he got Sibley going a little bit and South Africa were 'hang on, the run rate is going up a little bit'. I like Crawley at three.

"Denly hasn't been a disaster - he has won games for England, been very consistent, been a stop-gap but I think it is time to move on with youth."

Hussain did say, though, that he was surprised Broad was omitted from the starting line-up.

Broad took 23 wickets at an average under 27 at home against Australia last summer, while he claimed 14 at 19.42 as England won 3-1 in South Africa over the winter.

"All I would say about Broad is that if this had been the first Test of an Ashes series, would he have been playing. I would say, yes, 100 per cent? So why wasn't he playing against the West Indies?

"Was it because we underestimated West Indies and took them lightly? They hold the Wisden Trophy - we have underestimated them in the past and they have beaten us, so why do it here?

"Was it because they couldn't choose between Wood and Archer and so split up Broad and [Jimmy] Anderson and said 'look to the future'?

"Look to the now. Win this game. It's a three-match series and you don't hold the Wisden Trophy.

"I hope they don't think 'two wrongs make a right - Broad has had a bit of moan, maybe he should have played'. Don't go on the press, go on what you think for the next Test.

"The good thing for England is that the back-up bowling - Broad and [Chris] Woakes are in reserve at the moment - has experience and a huge amount of skill and as we get to the second and third Tests that might have bearing on this series."

Jermaine Blackwood's 95 underpinned West Indies' successful chase of 200 on day five at The Ageas Bowl as the tourists won just their second Test away from home since beating England at Headingley in 2017.

Skipper Jason Holder picked up six wickets in England's first innings, while Shannon Gabriel bagged nine wickets in the match, including two on the evening of day four as the hosts lost 5-30 to hand control back to Holder's men.

Hussain added: "It's great for West Indies on so many different levels. They deserve it for coming over to England [amid the coronavirus pandemic] and doing what they have had to - quarantine at Emirates Old Trafford and then come to the Ageas Bowl and be in a bubble.

"Winning like that was absolutely phenomenal - and that's why it was an important win. Imagine doing all that and then losing after bossing this game. They would then have driven up to Manchester thinking 'we have done all the right things and we are 1-0 down'.

"They will now think 'our country are very proud of us and we are one win away from retaining the Wisden Trophy'. It will mean a lot to a lot of West Indians watching back at home.

"Often a side mirrors a captain and this West Indies side mirror their impressive captain.

"He called for discipline and he got discipline with the ball. He said get us a par score with the bat as we have the bowling attack and they did that. They deserved to win, they played exceptional cricket.

"They hadn't played for six months, only had two warm-up games, but Gabriel had the fitness to bowl the match-turning spell on day four. It was quite brilliant."

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/n...issue-than-ben-stokes-decisions-in-first-test
 
Both teams are packed with batsmen with 30-something averages.

Both teams also have very good bowling attacks.

The key difference was a great spell by Gabriel and a very good knock by Blackwood.

With Root back for the next test, and possibly Broad, I expect things to tilt heavily in England's favor.
 
This has to be one of the weakest ever batting line-ups that England have ever had. Average players mostly, weak under pressure.
 
They are looking to build a lineup with youngsters, and they will have to go through this tough phase for a good future and not hit the panic button. This is how they built the ODI five years ago after 2015 CWC. THEY WENT ON TO WIN THE CWC. I would still back the new look team with Burns, Sibley, Crawley, Pope and Bess. Just add Root for experience in place of Denly and add Woakes or Broad for wood and that’s it. Even though without Root they were good enough to win, but the toss to bat first under overcast conditions, plus poor fielding in the last day cost them the match. I’m sure they will bounce back to win the series.
 
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They are looking to build a lineup with youngsters, and they will have to go through this tough phase for a good future and not hit the panic button. This is how they built the ODI five years ago after 2015 CWC. THEY WENT ON TO WIN THE CWC. I would still back the new look team with Burns, Sibley, Crawley, Pope and Bess. Just add Root for experience in place of Denly and add Woakes or Broad for wood and that’s it. Even though without Root they were good enough to win, but the toss to bat first under overcast conditions, plus poor fielding in the last day cost them the match. I’m sure they will bounce back to win the series.

they drew and fluked a WC win.
 
They are looking to build a lineup with youngsters, and they will have to go through this tough phase for a good future and not hit the panic button. This is how they built the ODI five years ago after 2015 CWC. THEY WENT ON TO WIN THE CWC. I would still back the new look team with Burns, Sibley, Crawley, Pope and Bess. Just add Root for experience in place of Denly and add Woakes or Broad for wood and that’s it. Even though without Root they were good enough to win, but the toss to bat first under overcast conditions, plus poor fielding in the last day cost them the match. I’m sure they will bounce back to win the series.

Anderson and all the england bowlers were unlucky this match. I really feel they bowled well on a dry and flat day 5 surface

Almost all the batters threw away their wickets in engs second innings, they should have scored much more. roston chase got cheap wickets

Strange how fans didn't notice that engs lower order failed them and, for a change, the top order scored most of the runs. This eng top 5 looks really solid. Burns and Sibley do a brilliant job of bunting the new ball. Replace butler and bring back Curran to help the lower order

Eng still has many players to try before they establish team. Batters like Sam hain, Dan Lawrence top order players. Olly stone is said to be faster than Archer, Parkinson is a successful young leggie.
 
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This has to be one of the weakest ever batting line-ups that England have ever had. Average players mostly, weak under pressure.

Great news for Pakistan that! Hope England dont discover their form by the time Test series vs Pakistan arrives
 
The match was lost in first inning with stokes gifting WI the best bowling conditions for the match.
Not selecting Broad, a champion bowler, eapecially in home conditions was another huge mistake.
Absence of world class batsman Roots. Also Foakes and Bairstow are better bet for wicketkeeper batsman role than Butler.
I have feeling by the rime Wngland play Pakistan they will correct all these mistakes and five Pakistan a tough time, not forgetting they would have played 3 tests by then.
 
Very simple - they were beaten by a better team. I think, problem for most here is that people judge WIN with the shambolic days in last few years. But, things have changed with the change in leadership both on & off the field. Instead of this Brooks guy, if they had Bravo, it'll be an even better team.

England was missing Root as well, both as a player & Captain. There is a reason why almost 80% times new Captains have lost their first Test. I think, they should call back 4 players - Root, Foakes, Moeen and Broad for next Test.

I actually dont think WI were the better team by much. England evened the contest at the toss by handing WI an advantage of bowling first on a gloomy day 1 and 2. And then they didn't play their best bowlers in home duke bowls in Broad and Woakes.

Woakes would have added the extra 30/40 runs too in two innings.
 
Its bad luck when it involves England but mediocre performances when it's anyone else bar India. Have some consistency at least
West Indies were the better team. No luck
 
Its bad luck when it involves England but mediocre performances when it's anyone else bar India. Have some consistency at least
West Indies were the better team. No luck
Not bad luck but bad decision at toss along with bad selections. Roots absence was forced upon them but a team should be good enough to bear loss of one player albeit a world class one.
 
This England team doesn't have the batting quality of yesteryear. Barring Root, most bowling sides would fancy a crack at this lot.
 
This England team doesn't have the batting quality of yesteryear. Barring Root, most bowling sides would fancy a crack at this lot.

Batting quality or not, do you not think they should have been able to defend 200 against a second string West Indies team missing two of their best batsmen and with Anderson / Stokes and the highly rated Archer bowling? Whatever happened in the first few days, the game was there’s to take in the final innings.
 
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