How do ex-Muslims deal with family?

[KingKhanWC]

I've always wondered how Ex-Muslims deal with their family who remain Muslims.

I see Ex-Muslims being very opinionated about the religion they have left and try to be very helpful in shining light on Muslims who they think are fools for following an imaginary God.

Im sure some of them spends masses of time in helping Muslims to see the light.

Do they put the same effort and passion into making their family leave the religion?

This question is open to ALL ex-Muslims and ex-Muslims who may be living with people of other religions/beliefs.

 

[Local.Dada]

I don’t think most parents or family members are that petty that they would stop loving you because you don’t follow the religion or adhere to every rule.

Obviously if you violate extreme laws your parents or family are justified in boycotting you but if takes a bottle of beer or a kind of cuisine for them to stop loving you then maybe you are lucky you broke the relationship.

Also who talks religion on the dinner table? so does your religion really matter?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don’t think most parents or family members are that petty that they would stop loving you because you don’t follow the religion or adhere to every rule.

Obviously if you violate extreme laws your parents or family are justified in boycotting you but if takes a bottle of beer or a kind of cuisine for them to stop loving you then maybe you are lucky you broke the relationship.

Also who talks religion on the dinner table? so does your religion really matter?

It doesn't have to be at the dinner table, most families see each regularly throughout the day.

The Question was not for the families but for the Ex-Muslim. How does he/she inform the family they are following a false, made up faith?

Are you an Ex-Muslim?

 

[The_KING]

Most Ex Muslims don't even have the guts to tell their families about their apostasy.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Most Ex Muslims don't even have the guts to tell their families about their apostasy.

Hmmm, never thought of this.

I always assumed they would be at their families throats esp since most of them are so caring spending time telling other Muslims they are following a false belief?

 

[Local.Dada]

It doesn't have to be at the dinner table, most families see each regularly throughout the day.

The Question was not for the families but for the Ex-Muslim. How does he/she inform the family they are following a false, made up faith?

Are you an Ex-Muslim?

No I am not but I come from a very religious and conservative Hindu family but I don’t adhere to any rules.

I respect their customs/beliefs and would never try to argue with them or hurt them but I do not follow their lifestyle. They neither enforce their customs on me or neither do I tell them that I don’t agree with some of the traditions they believe in.

If it is something harmless I just follow it, keeps everyone happy and same way they know I enjoy the odd drink and they have enough faith in me to know that I know my limits.

In fact I have a lot of Muslim friends who come from conservative families who are in the same boat as me.

So who cares if someone is an ex-whatever religion as long as he/she is a good guy/gal

 

[KingKhanWC]

No I am not but I come from a very religious and conservative Hindu family but I don’t adhere to any rules.

I respect their customs/beliefs and would never try to argue with them or hurt them but I do not follow their lifestyle. They neither enforce their customs on me or neither do I tell them that I don’t agree with some of the traditions they believe in.

If it is something harmless I just follow it, keeps everyone happy and same way they know I enjoy the odd drink and they have enough faith in me to know that I know my limits.

In fact I have a lot of Muslim friends who come from conservative families who are in the same boat as me.

So who cares if someone is an ex-whatever religion as long as he/she is a good guy/gal

That's great to know.

Again, the topic here is those ex-muslims who want to liberate other Muslims, how has it been for them to liberate their own first?

Its not relevant to your situation.

 

[Robert]

Can’t speak as an ex-Muslim, but can speak as an ex-Christian.

I argued a lot with family and was angry for a long time. Eventually I outgrew the Need To Be Right and my war with God (or rather, other people’s religion) came to an end and I am at peace.

 

[Nadeemp]

my parents dont care much. But glad to announce two of my nephews have given up on religion. However religion is hardly discussed at family gatherings and i really dont care what the other person thinks or believes. This is a message board, hence people discussing different subjects to their liking. When it comes to preaching your believes onto others. I think religious people take the cake. No comparison to be made here.

 

[GBK_Fan]

All exmuslims I know are open about their beliefs with their family. Their parents and loved ones at times may not agree but I have never seen any relations being broken off. That said most come from families which are fairly secular .

 

[KingKhanWC]

Can’t speak as an ex-Muslim, but can speak as an ex-Christian.

I argued a lot with family and was angry for a long time. Eventually I outgrew the Need To Be Right and my war with God (or rather, other people’s religion) came to an end and I am at peace.

Where you also advising your friends to leave their religion or just the family?

 

[Pakistanian]

I have an uncle like that, he's always really cynical and in your face about how his disbelief. Nobody in the family preaches to him and have kinda given up on giving any advice but he's gotta comment on other people's practices, it's annoying asf like when he's around you can't even mention you have to pray or you're fasting or if there's a nice halal store nearby cause he'll always have something negative to say. I understand that's privilege of us living in the west.

 

[troodon]

I am sure most ex-muslims are scared to come out as the punishment for apostasy is death.

 

[KingKhanWC]

my parents dont care much. But glad to announce two of my nephews have given up on religion. However religion is hardly discussed at family gatherings and i really dont care what the other person thinks or believes. This is a message board, hence people discussing different subjects to their liking. When it comes to preaching your believes onto others. I think religious people take the cake. No comparison to be made here.

Thanks for a good post.

Did you advise your nephews to leave?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I have an uncle like that, he's always really cynical and in your face about how his disbelief. Nobody in the family preaches to him and have kinda given up on giving any advice but he's gotta comment on other people's practices, it's annoying asf like when he's around you can't even mention you have to pray or you're fasting or if there's a nice halal store nearby cause he'll always have something negative to say. I understand that's privilege of us living in the west.

This.

I fail to understand why some feel the need to push their new found atheism onto others esp family members and esp when they wont take you seriously.

In your opinion, is this born out of arrogance or a genuine need to help others see the light?

 

[Nadeemp]

Thanks for a good post.

Did you advise your nephews to leave?

No i did not. I live in NYC and they live in Texas. They know i am an atheist . I think the first one when he went to college got influenced by one of his teachers. The other i have no idea what triggered him. They are not rebellious kid or anything. Both at harvard and doing well.

 

[Nadeemp]

This.

I fail to understand why some feel the need to push their new found atheism onto others esp family members and esp when they wont take you seriously.

In your opinion, is this born out of arrogance or a genuine need to help others see the light?

The same could be said of religious people. In fact as a stated earlier religious people are much more aggressive.YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT

 

[Nadeemp]

The same could be said of religious people. In fact as a stated earlier religious people are much more aggressive.YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT

Religious people have have tv shows/ radio/print . Damn there is even a bible waiting for you when you check into hotel. THATS ARROGANCE. However that uncle also sounds OTT

 

[Local.Dada]

True. Personally though I find the atheist more annoying than the religious guy because he becomes the same thing he detests by becoming a “believer”. That makes them a hypocrite.

Sorry the response was for the above post

 

[DeadBall]

I come from a very religious family, my mother is a professor of Islam and Fiqh in one of Dubai's top universities. I myself am a hafiz of 14 Ajza (Paras) of the Quran, have studied Fiqh under known scholars in Saudia Arabia for 2 years and have done 2 Hajjs and many Umrahs.

Even though there was a pressure on me to be religious from the start I actually liked it and wanted to know the truth and the reason of our existence. I actually even studied the Bible and used to be a big fan of Ahmed Deedath and debate with other people interested in the topic.

But there was always something nagging in the back of my mind and the more I came to study religion in it's finest details the more it bothered me. I even took to studying other religions in detail just to see if they had the answers but they were all the same. I wasn't satisfied with the many discrepancies and the cop out of God Knows Best whenever I questioned the status quo.

Anyway when I was about 23 or so and the family were going for their annual Umrah, I told them point blank that I didn't believe in religion anymore and there was no point to it. They tried to convince me with love at first and then with fear as usual and then stopped talking to me for a while but I held fast in my position. It was a good thing that I had a job so I could support myself. My parents would offer me support of course but it came with emotional blackmail and other conditions so I stayed away from it.

As time passed by they realized that I won't yield on my position and we came to a truce on middle ground. My condition was that I did not mind religious things as long as I wasn't being preached ot forced to do something I didn't want to.

My mother still tries to tell me recite this Surah on that day, or recite this kalmah for whatever, mostly out of habit or maybe because she still thinks she can save her first born and I do give her the satisfaction but tell her in clear terms if she overdoes it.

Same goes for the Mrs, she is Christian and hardly practicing but we had our debates early on and do not force our ideologies and beliefs down each others throats. We celebrate Eid, Christmas, Easter etc but it's mostly tradition and I time to get together and eat, drink etc rather than anything religious.

I have mellowed down with time and do not have such a confronting approach as before nor do I usually like to discuss religion but if is unavoidable I make my stance very clear and am not apologetic about it.

The best thing here is nobody really cares about your religion, it is something personal and nobody judges you for it,. It's mostly a Desi thing in the SC, identity crisis Pak/BD thing in the UK, Christian Orthodox thing in Eastern Europe, Bible belt in the US etc etc who try to show how much more pious and better they are than everybody else.

 

[kk1992]

The same could be said of religious people. In fact as a stated earlier religious people are much more aggressive.YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT

No!

Find mostly ex-Muslim atheists more aggressive.

You maybe not be but most I’ve come across always trying to find an excuse to preach their beliefs, particularly in developed world.

You don’t see regular Muslim holding down 9-5 doing that unless they are asked to share their opinion.

 

[Nadeemp]

I come from a very religious family, my mother is a professor of Islam and Fiqh in one of Dubai's top universities. I myself am a hafiz of 14 Ajza (Paras) of the Quran, have studied Fiqh under known scholars in Saudia Arabia for 2 years and have done 2 Hajjs and many Umrahs.

Even though there was a pressure on me to be religious from the start I actually liked it and wanted to know the truth and the reason of our existence. I actually even studied the Bible and used to be a big fan of Ahmed Deedath and debate with other people interested in the topic.

But there was always something nagging in the back of my mind and the more I came to study religion in it's finest details the more it bothered me. I even took to studying other religions in detail just to see if they had the answers but they were all the same. I wasn't satisfied with the many discrepancies and the cop out of God Knows Best whenever I questioned the status quo.

Anyway when I was about 23 or so and the family were going for their annual Umrah, I told them point blank that I didn't believe in religion anymore and there was no point to it. They tried to convince me with love at first and then with fear as usual and then stopped talking to me for a while but I held fast in my position. It was a good thing that I had a job so I could support myself. My parents would offer me support of course but it came with emotional blackmail and other conditions so I stayed away from it.

As time passed by they realized that I won't yield on my position and we came to a truce on middle ground. My condition was that I did not mind religious things as long as I wasn't being preached ot forced to do something I didn't want to.

My mother still tries to tell me recite this Surah on that day, or recite this kalmah for whatever, mostly out of habit or maybe because she still thinks she can save her first born and I do give her the satisfaction but tell her in clear terms if she overdoes it.

Same goes for the Mrs, she is Christian and hardly practicing but we had our debates early on and do not force our ideologies and beliefs down each others throats. We celebrate Eid, Christmas, Easter etc but it's mostly tradition and I time to get together and eat, drink etc rather than anything religious.

I have mellowed down with time and do not have such a confronting approach as before nor do I usually like to discuss religion but if is unavoidable I make my stance very clear and am not apologetic about it.

The best thing here is nobody really cares about your religion, it is something personal and nobody judges you for it,. It's mostly a Desi thing in the SC, identity crisis Pak/BD thing in the UK, Christian Orthodox thing in Eastern Europe, Bible belt in the US etc etc who try to show how much more pious and better they are than everybody else.

Great post.

 

[Nadeemp]

No!

Find mostly ex-Muslim atheists more aggressive.

You maybe not be but most I’ve come across always trying to find an excuse to preach their beliefs, particularly in developed world.

You don’t see regular Muslim holding down 9-5 doing that unless they are asked to share their opinion.

That could be because you are a muslim ands you dont see muslims as annoying when they are preaching. Just my thought from the experience i have had.

 

[kk1992]

That could be because you are a muslim ands you dont see muslims as annoying when they are preaching. Just my thought from the experience i have had.

No!

Sure there are Muslims who will continue to preach. I’m not denying that.

And on this issue the everyone’s opinion is based on personal experience.

Case in point, you want to eat halal and newly ex Muslim atheist will try to get you out of eating halal by preaching his beliefs when they know you won’t. It’s just one example.

But again everyone’s opinion on this thread is biased due to their personal experiences.

 

[The_KING]

No!

Find mostly ex-Muslim atheists more aggressive.

You maybe not be but most I’ve come across always trying to find an excuse to preach their beliefs, particularly in developed world.

You don’t see regular Muslim holding down 9-5 doing that unless they are asked to share their opinion.

This X100.

Literally every ex Muslim that I have encountered is rude and has this in your face attitude, trying to preach their 'new' beliefs down your throat. It's as if they want a medal and a pat on the back for abandoning Islam.

I try to stay away from ex Muslims now.

 

[DeadBall]

No!

Find mostly ex-Muslim atheists more aggressive.

You maybe not be but most I’ve come across always trying to find an excuse to preach their beliefs, particularly in developed world.

You don’t see regular Muslim holding down 9-5 doing that unless they are asked to share their opinion.

Just go on most religious threads here and honestly see who is being judgemental and being preachy.

You don't eat the same Halal meat as I do? You are not a Muslim.

You listen to music? You are not a Muslim.

And it goes on and on.

I don't really engage on these debates on here anymore as it is pointless but the "atheists" actually come up with rational points and all they get in return is abuses and ad hominem.

There is no point discussing something if it isn't done with an open mind.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pertinent question. I know one who had to deal with a lot of emotional blackmailing from his parents. His relatives didn’t want their kids talking to him. Almost pushed to the point of isolation. Religious fanaticism can make people go crazy. Make them even go against their own blood..

Eventually the guy was forced by his parents to publicly declare that he was still a “believer” but was allowed to hold his opinions in private.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Just go on most religious threads here and honestly see who is being judgemental and being preachy.

You don't eat the same Halal meat as I do? You are not a Muslim.

You listen to music? You are not a Muslim.

And it goes on and on.

I don't really engage on these debates on here anymore as it is pointless but the "atheists" actually come up with rational points and all they get in return is abuses and ad hominem.

There is no point discussing something if it isn't done with an open mind.

I’ve never heard anyone say “you don’t eat the same halal meat as i do” in my whole life.

Also, listening to music doesn’t make you a non-muslim.
According to some it’s a sin but it’s not kuffar.
It’s the same as lying or stealing etc.

I thought this was obvious.

 

[CricketDon]

I have an uncle like that, he's always really cynical and in your face about how his disbelief. Nobody in the family preaches to him and have kinda given up on giving any advice but he's gotta comment on other people's practices, it's annoying asf like when he's around you can't even mention you have to pray or you're fasting or if there's a nice halal store nearby cause he'll always have something negative to say. I understand that's privilege of us living in the west.

True. Is this was pakistan or Saudia Arabia he’d be long dead.

 

[Kroll]

I come from a very religious family, my mother is a professor of Islam and Fiqh in one of Dubai's top universities. I myself am a hafiz of 14 Ajza (Paras) of the Quran, have studied Fiqh under known scholars in Saudia Arabia for 2 years and have done 2 Hajjs and many Umrahs.

Even though there was a pressure on me to be religious from the start I actually liked it and wanted to know the truth and the reason of our existence. I actually even studied the Bible and used to be a big fan of Ahmed Deedath and debate with other people interested in the topic.

But there was always something nagging in the back of my mind and the more I came to study religion in it's finest details the more it bothered me. I even took to studying other religions in detail just to see if they had the answers but they were all the same. I wasn't satisfied with the many discrepancies and the cop out of God Knows Best whenever I questioned the status quo.

Anyway when I was about 23 or so and the family were going for their annual Umrah, I told them point blank that I didn't believe in religion anymore and there was no point to it. They tried to convince me with love at first and then with fear as usual and then stopped talking to me for a while but I held fast in my position. It was a good thing that I had a job so I could support myself. My parents would offer me support of course but it came with emotional blackmail and other conditions so I stayed away from it.

As time passed by they realized that I won't yield on my position and we came to a truce on middle ground. My condition was that I did not mind religious things as long as I wasn't being preached ot forced to do something I didn't want to.

My mother still tries to tell me recite this Surah on that day, or recite this kalmah for whatever, mostly out of habit or maybe because she still thinks she can save her first born and I do give her the satisfaction but tell her in clear terms if she overdoes it.

Same goes for the Mrs, she is Christian and hardly practicing but we had our debates early on and do not force our ideologies and beliefs down each others throats. We celebrate Eid, Christmas, Easter etc but it's mostly tradition and I time to get together and eat, drink etc rather than anything religious.

I have mellowed down with time and do not have such a confronting approach as before nor do I usually like to discuss religion but if is unavoidable I make my stance very clear and am not apologetic about it.

The best thing here is nobody really cares about your religion, it is something personal and nobody judges you for it,. It's mostly a Desi thing in the SC, identity crisis Pak/BD thing in the UK, Christian Orthodox thing in Eastern Europe, Bible belt in the US etc etc who try to show how much more pious and better they are than everybody else.

Fascinating, especially highlighted part. This might be digressing from the topic, (apologies OP) but just out of curiosity and you don't need to answer if you don't wish Sir.

What left you unsatisfied with the (in your words) the status quo? What aspects did you challenge? What sort of things troubled you the most that you couldn't get any closure from your questions?

 

[Pakistanian]

True. Is this was pakistan or Saudia Arabia he’d be long dead.

I think there are certain circles in those countries where you can get away with that, usually the elite.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The same could be said of religious people. In fact as a stated earlier religious people are much more aggressive.YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT

True. Is this was pakistan or Saudia Arabia he’d be long dead.

Totally untrue, I know many in Pakistan who stop believing , they party with all of the vices involved. They do tell their family religion isn't true but don't push their new found atheism on others.

 

[Nadeemp]

Totally untrue, I know many in Pakistan who stop believing , they party with all of the vices involved. They do tell their family religion isn't true but don't push their new found atheism on others.

you can go to jail for blasphemy in many muslim countries.

 

[KingKhanWC]

you can go to jail for blasphemy in many muslim countries.

If you stand in the street and abuse what the 99% feel sacred, you should. This is not because you are not the same as them or you want to express your views but because you are causing strife in society. There is no need to stand in the open and abuse what people love, whether it's religion or a football team, this is merely spreading hate.

 

[minamino]

Where do Atheists force their beliefs on others? Athiests are more respectful than religious people and I am saying that as a Muslim. Athiests would most probably mind their own business unlike religious people who would keep on talking about religion.

 

[Nadeemp]

If you stand in the street and abuse what the 99% feel sacred, you should. This is not because you are not the same as them or you want to express your views but because you are causing strife in society. There is no need to stand in the open and abuse what people love, whether it's religion or a football team, this is merely spreading hate.

That post makes no sense

 

[ElRaja]

I see Ex-Muslims being very opinionated about the religion they have left and try to be very helpful in shining light on Muslims who they think are fools for following an imaginary God.

disagree with you, u only notice the ones who are vocal, most don't care and have learnt better. as a proportion there are more religious people occupied with the irreligious than vice versa.

 

[Nadeemp]

There are blasphemy laws. THATS ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID.

 

[Tubs]

Family will disown me, or try to send me to Pakistan and get me married. Haven't been able to tell them despite being an ExMuslim for 6-7 years. Got a PhD interview next week, if all goes well I'll be moving out. Perhaps I'll tell them then, if not, they'll probably find out when I get married to an atheist (whom I have been with secretly for 4.5 years).

To highlight the vocal aspect of some ExMuslims, I suppose it comes from those who come from conservative families (was the case with me). Any question of Islam is usually not tolerated in those circles (as is the same in strict Christian, Jewish, Hindu, etc households) so they use the internet as a release. Some idiots attack Muslims personally, which I always challenge, but sometimes the attacks on the ideology/religion/Muhammad are taken as attacks on Muslims which is not the same. I have also noticed some Hinduvta idiots trying to infiltrate ExMuslim circles when a genuine discussion about Islam and why they left is being had, but luckily they are snuffed out quite quick. If you have some questions, probably pop over to r/exmuslim, many of them will be happy to engage in a civil manner (I am sure some will be defensive and aggressive, simply ignore them and allow the mods to deal with them).

 

[Tubs]

If you stand in the street and abuse what the 99% feel sacred, you should. This is not because you are not the same as them or you want to express your views but because you are causing strife in society. There is no need to stand in the open and abuse what people love, whether it's religion or a football team, this is merely spreading hate.

Depends what you mean. Apostasy is not abuse. 'Abusing' an ideology is allowed, but it is certainly unwise in a country with blasphemy laws. I'll be charitable and for the sake of this discussion grant that blasphemy laws are justifiable. Apostasy laws shouldn't be a thing, private or otherwise. Challenging scripture shouldn't be classed as blasphemy, it is dialectic.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That post makes no sense

Let me try again, simplified.

If in India Hindus openly abused Hinduism and Muslims openly abused Hinduism, it would lead to a civil war.

Depends what you mean. Apostasy is not abuse. 'Abusing' an ideology is allowed, but it is certainly unwise in a country with blasphemy laws. I'll be charitable and for the sake of this discussion grant that blasphemy laws are justifiable. Apostasy laws shouldn't be a thing, private or otherwise. Challenging scripture shouldn't be classed as blasphemy, it is dialectic.

Apostasy is treason, its not simply leaving the faith. Treason is normal law in most nations still in play today.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Family will disown me, or try to send me to Pakistan and get me married. Haven't been able to tell them despite being an ExMuslim for 6-7 years. Got a PhD interview next week, if all goes well I'll be moving out. Perhaps I'll tell them then, if not, they'll probably find out when I get married to an atheist (whom I have been with secretly for 4.5 years).

To highlight the vocal aspect of some ExMuslims, I suppose it comes from those who come from conservative families (was the case with me). Any question of Islam is usually not tolerated in those circles (as is the same in strict Christian, Jewish, Hindu, etc households) so they use the internet as a release. Some idiots attack Muslims personally, which I always challenge, but sometimes the attacks on the ideology/religion/Muhammad are taken as attacks on Muslims which is not the same. I have also noticed some Hinduvta idiots trying to infiltrate ExMuslim circles when a genuine discussion about Islam and why they left is being had, but luckily they are snuffed out quite quick. If you have some questions, probably pop over to r/exmuslim, many of them will be happy to engage in a civil manner (I am sure some will be defensive and aggressive, simply ignore them and allow the mods to deal with them).

Why would they disown you? You are their son and they love you?

 

[KingKhanWC]

disagree with you, u only notice the ones who are vocal, most don't care and have learnt better. as a proportion there are more religious people occupied with the irreligious than vice versa.

Take a day out to Hyde Park on a Sunday. You will see how the ex-Muslims behave , very aggressive compared to the Muslims.

 

[Nadeemp]

Let me try again, simplified.

If in India Hindus openly abused Hinduism and Muslims openly abused Hinduism, it would lead to a civil war.



Apostasy is treason, its not simply leaving the faith. Treason is normal law in most nations still in play today.

Apostasy is NOT treason

 

[Tubs]

Why would they disown you? You are their son and they love you?

They do love me, especially after certain health issues I have had as of late. But Islam has always been non-negotiable. I'm certain that a culture certainly plays a part, but I'm sure my dad is aware of some of the apostasy rulings found in some sahih hadith (especially Hanafi ones). I could probably show them the 'there's no compulsion in religion' verse, but there are some scholars which say it has been abrogated, so I am unsure. We are in the West, so obviously I can't legally be beaten, detained, or executed. Perhaps the best thing would be to tell me to move out, but then the Pakistani culture comes in where the kids usually stay with the parents. Then there's the cultural aspect of izzat, too.

My dad has also completed Hajj 4 times, and Umrah over 15 times. My whole family pray all namaaz, and have done since puberty. My siblings aren't as strict as my parents, but are still religious. It's a recipe for disaster, really.

Not to mention my white, atheist girlfriend of 4.5 years. It's gonna be an interesting few months.

 

[Nadeemp]

They do love me, especially after certain health issues I have had as of late. But Islam has always been non-negotiable. I'm certain that a culture certainly plays a part, but I'm sure my dad is aware of some of the apostasy rulings found in some sahih hadith (especially Hanafi ones). I could probably show them the 'there's no compulsion in religion' verse, but there are some scholars which say it has been abrogated, so I am unsure. We are in the West, so obviously I can't legally be beaten, detained, or executed. Perhaps the best thing would be to tell me to move out, but then the Pakistani culture comes in where the kids usually stay with the parents. Then there's the cultural aspect of izzat, too.

My dad has also completed Hajj 4 times, and Umrah over 15 times. My whole family pray all namaaz, and have done since puberty. My siblings aren't as strict as my parents, but are still religious. It's a recipe for disaster, really.

Not to mention my white, atheist girlfriend of 4.5 years. It's gonna be an interesting few months.

Thats a shame.

 

[Tubs]

Let me try again, simplified.

If in India Hindus openly abused Hinduism and Muslims openly abused Hinduism, it would lead to a civil war.



Apostasy is treason, its not simply leaving the faith. Treason is normal law in most nations still in play today.

Leaving a religion is not rebelling against the state. It is not attempting to assassinate a high-ranking official or a monarch. It is not believing in an ideology anymore. I know Zakir Naik and Bilal Philips like to say apostasy is tantamount to treason, but it's simply not the case.

 

[Tubs]

Take a day out to Hyde Park on a Sunday. You will see how the ex-Muslims behave , very aggressive compared to the Muslims.

I'd say Muhammad Hijab is pretty aggressive at times. Ali Dawah always making 'call out' videos. A large minority wanting death for apostasy. We can point out idiots on all sides, probably best not to generalise.

 

[kk1992]

Just go on most religious threads here and honestly see who is being judgemental and being preachy.

Why do you need to be on any religious thread when you are an atheist and claim to want nothing to do with any religion?

You don't eat the same Halal meat as I do? You are not a Muslim.
Same question, why do you need to care if some one has their own beliefs or their own definition of their beliefs, what does it has to do with your beliefs, Atheism?

You listen to music? You are not a Muslim.

same question, you are an atheist, you can listen to whatever you wish to, why do you need to preach if your intention is not as same as those who wants to preach their religion, Atheism? and why do you care if a particular group of people wants to practice their beliefs differently?
And it goes on and on.

I don't really engage on these debates on here anymore as it is pointless but the "atheists" actually come up with rational points and all they get in return is abuses and ad hominem.

Again, rationalism in religious discussion is subjective to their beliefs. For you and your belief it may be rational for other who have different beliefs may not be.

There is no point discussing something if it isn't done with an open mind.

Why do ex-Muslim Atheist have an urge to discredit their ex religion while shoving it down their belief on other while also humiliating for believing what they belief?

 

[CricketCartoons]

If in India Hindus openly abused Hinduism and Muslims openly abused Hinduism, it would lead to a civil war.

Then that would be a rare instance when both hindus and muslims are on the same page (of the same book).

 

[sweep_shot]

If I have a child and he/she leaves Islam, I am going to kick him/her out. I don't need that type of child.

Political correctness has a limit.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just go on most religious threads here and honestly see who is being judgemental and being preachy.

You don't eat the same Halal meat as I do? You are not a Muslim.

You listen to music? You are not a Muslim.

And it goes on and on.

I don't really engage on these debates on here anymore as it is pointless but the "atheists" actually come up with rational points and all they get in return is abuses and ad hominem.

There is no point discussing something if it isn't done with an open mind.

I don't go on them much either, but if you did, you would find that is true of the atheists as well, one in particular.

 

[imrankhannsu]

I know a few people who are not Muslims or agnostic. Quite a few of their family has accepted while some dont tell their family.

What I feel bad is how they try to tarnish Muslims and Islam by using small examples or memes to brush the whole population. They also do this with alot of enthusiasm.

I can understand one leaves religion but to passionately make fun of it IMO is hypocritical for atheists at least.

 

[Sir-fraz]

the real reason young adults who are ex muslim, or leave their religion are angry because they feel like they have been lied to, and betrayed by the people they trust the most. i.e their parents

my reasoning is that no one should push religion on their children, kids dont understand what it is and you are just indoctrinating/ brain washing them into your way of thinking.

its better to let them decide themselves.

i personally have never believed in religion, i see it as a cult and was already skeptical growing up as a child, not understanding what the reason to pray was since god had absolutely everything. why would it need our prayers/ worship.

atheists are basically in religion without realizing it.

when i turned 18 my parents stopped trying to force it down my throat. and now that im 25 half my cousins are ex-muslims.

family culture has changed. im sure the next generation in my family will not be muslim when they are born.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

the real reason young adults who are ex muslim, or leave their religion are angry because they feel like they have been lied to, and betrayed by the people they trust the most. i.e their parents

my reasoning is that no one should push religion on their children, kids dont understand what it is and you are just indoctrinating/ brain washing them into your way of thinking.

its better to let them decide themselves.

i personally have never believed in religion, i see it as a cult and was already skeptical growing up as a child, not understanding what the reason to pray was since god had absolutely everything. why would it need our prayers/ worship.

atheists are basically in religion without realizing it.

when i turned 18 my parents stopped trying to force it down my throat. and now that im 25 half my cousins are ex-muslims.

family culture has changed. im sure the next generation in my family will not be muslim when they are born.

Inshallah they will just get on with their lives rather than obsessing about religion like most ex-Muslims who end up bleating about it almost as much as the mullahs do.

 

[minamino]

My grandfather wasn't religious at all and he was made fun of by others for not praying or being religious at all. That time was different, now its almost impossible to be irreligious in Pakistan though my grandmother's brother is an athiest and his whole family is not religious at all and I don't think it matters now because after all he is my grandmother's brother and she doesn't care about it now.

 

[Robert]

Where you also advising your friends to leave their religion or just the family?

No and no. It was only about me. I didn’t try to convince anyone except that I had been unhappy and was trying to be happy.

 

[Sir-fraz]

Inshallah they will just get on with their lives rather than obsessing about religion like most ex-Muslims who end up bleating about it almost as much as the mullahs do.

polarity man, goes both ways.

they just need to come to terms with what they have been through and parents need to be more open minded.

its just a matter of time.

once you grow up and start gaining experiences from life you look back and think how dumb you were and differently you couldve handled things..

its just about perspective

 

[AdamM97]

I’ve got two uncles who are openly atheists/agnostics. My family don’t talk to them anymore though, but not because they’re atheists. They themselves stopped contacting us and barely attend any family functions at all.

One of my uncles married a Sikh, and the other married a Swede. Both of them openly drink, are quite westernized, barely have any desi friends, and always moan about their hate for Pakistani culture on Facebook. My granddad and the rest of the family used to be really mad at them in the beginning, but have since then given up on trying to ”reform” them and revert them back to Islam.

 

[The_KING]

polarity man, goes both ways.

they just need to come to terms with what they have been through and parents need to be more open minded.

“What they have been through.” You make it sound like parents teaching their kids about their religion is like some sort of a torture. Lol, talk about being dramatic.

 

[Sir-fraz]

“What they have been through.” You make it sound like parents teaching their kids about their religion is like some sort of a torture. Lol, talk about being dramatic.

hmm lets see if someone lied to you about there being an all mighty being who's judging you every single hour of every day, it can lead to being paranoid and can be called mental torture.

i personally didnt have that mindset.

your derived of certain things as your growing up, your unsure about which culture you fit into which results in a culture clash, you end up with some radicals and some woke leftists... which is happening in the UK as we speak.
it can cause mental deficiencies among certain people.

that is why i said you let the child grow up and decide if he or she wants to apart of that religion.

otherwise its just another cult, whose followers brain wash their own kids into believing when they are just fantasy books with a bit of history intertwined within them.

people always down play the mental aspect of life when it literally constitutes 80% of how you live and think.

cricket is 80% mental 20% skill... there is a reason why there are so many players in any sport who might have the skill to be an international player but fall well short because they can not handle the mental side of things.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

polarity man, goes both ways.

they just need to come to terms with what they have been through and parents need to be more open minded.

its just a matter of time.

once you grow up and start gaining experiences from life you look back and think how dumb you were and differently you couldve handled things..

its just about perspective

To be fair, my parents and most of my biraderi aren't really the fundo type, so I was never brought up with a forceful version of religion. It was more there as a general morality guide, we were brought up in quite an easy going atmosphere, even the family back in Pakistan seem pretty chill.

This might be why I find it strange to hear many ex-Muslims on Pakistani forums, it could well be you guys were tortured by sadistic parents if you didn't fall in line. In which case my condolences.

 

[The_KING]

hmm lets see if someone lied to you about there being an all mighty being who's judging you every single hour of every day, it can lead to being paranoid and can be called mental torture.

i personally didnt have that mindset.

your derived of certain things as your growing up, your unsure about which culture you fit into which results in a culture clash, you end up with some radicals and some woke leftists... which is happening in the UK as we speak.
it can cause mental deficiencies among certain people.

that is why i said you let the child grow up and decide if he or she wants to apart of that religion.

otherwise its just another cult, whose followers brain wash their own kids into believing when they are just fantasy books with a bit of history intertwined within them.

people always down play the mental aspect of life when it literally constitutes 80% of how you live and think.

cricket is 80% mental 20% skill... there is a reason why there are so many players in any sport who might have the skill to be an international player but fall well short because they can not handle the mental side of things.

A typical atheist/ex Muslim response.

Just because you don’t believe in an all mighty being, it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t exist and it doesn’t mean your parents lied to you about his existence.

Like I said in my previous post, you are being dramatic and way over the top.

 

[Sir-fraz]

To be fair, my parents and most of my biraderi aren't really the fundo type, so I was never brought up with a forceful version of religion. It was more there as a general morality guide, we were brought up in quite an easy going atmosphere, even the family back in Pakistan seem pretty chill.

This might be why I find it strange to hear many ex-Muslims on Pakistani forums, it could well be you guys were tortured by sadistic parents if you didn't fall in line. In which case my condolences.

your family was much more open minded, probably more educated as well. this seems be the case in less educated families.

luckily i wasn't tortured. lol

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

your family was much more open minded, probably more educated as well. this seems be the case in less educated families.

luckily i wasn't tortured. lol

Nope, on my dad's side quite a few of them were uneducated back then, he went through partition as a kid. He considered people who spent too much time sitting in mosques as either frauds or lazy.

 

[Sir-fraz]

A typical atheist/ex Muslim response.

Just because you don’t believe in an all mighty being, it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t exist and it doesn’t mean your parents lied to you about his existence.

Like I said in my previous post, you are being dramatic and way over the top.

i dont think im being dramatic at all, and i never said this applies to me as i said polarity extremes go both ways...

we dont even know and have no way to prove if this being exists or not.

we definitely need to look into the mental aspects of this and how it effects the mind.

im not even an atheist i personally think there is a creator, but his name is not allah lol
i just dont follow the cults/ organized religions.

again this does effect the mental side of things depending on your upbringing.

 

[Sir-fraz]

Nope, on my dad's side quite a few of them were uneducated back then, he went through partition as a kid. He considered people who spent too much time sitting in mosques as either frauds or lazy.

he had the right mindset, thats all that matters.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

he had the right mindset, thats all that matters.

He wouldn't have much time for people who spent their energy on posting anti-Islam stuff on a Pakistani site either.

 

[Napa]

Most Ex Muslims don't even have the guts to tell their families about their apostasy.

I would say it takes a lot of courage to overcome the fear of possible eternal damnation given the very gory details of hell fed into young minds.

 

[razazaidi]

Very interesting thread! If I have to take a guess, muslims leaving islam maybe the result of parants/family/community forcing their ideas. Alhumdulilah I am a believer, and my parents never forced anything on me. If I had a father who claimed like some wahabi above, "I will kick you out", I would surely be out by now..

 

[Justcrazy]

Why would they disown you? You are their son and they love you?

In Islam you cannot have a non Muslim as heir or a Muslim cannot be heir to a non muslim.

 

[Third_Umpire]

I question OP’s assertion that ex Muslims are always convincing other Muslims to leave religion. Don’t go by online forums, a self selecting bunch shows up here (Muslim or not), a bunch that by definition has time to share opinions online.

In real life there may be some Ex Muslims that try to convince religious people, but it’s probably a negligible % specially when compared to Muslims that preach to everyone else.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I question OP’s assertion that ex Muslims are always convincing other Muslims to leave religion. Don’t go by online forums, a self selecting bunch shows up here (Muslim or not), a bunch that by definition has time to share opinions online.

In real life there may be some Ex Muslims that try to convince religious people, but it’s probably a negligible % specially when compared to Muslims that preach to everyone else.

I agree. In reality I can imagine ex-Muslims probably have enough issues with their own family life to be bothered about anyone else. That said, the ones who turn up online tend to be very committed and will usually produce reams of literature to support their arguments.

 

[Tubs]

Very interesting thread! If I have to take a guess, muslims leaving islam maybe the result of parants/family/community forcing their ideas. Alhumdulilah I am a believer, and my parents never forced anything on me. If I had a father who claimed like some wahabi above, "I will kick you out", I would surely be out by now..

It's a bit incorrect to say that being forced is the reason they leave. This is a common tactic that many theists use to trivialise the reasons why someone left a religion (though I don't think you're trying to do that). Personally, I - and my other ex-Theists- left for theological reasons.

 

[yasir]

I question OP’s assertion that ex Muslims are always convincing other Muslims to leave religion. Don’t go by online forums, a self selecting bunch shows up here (Muslim or not), a bunch that by definition has time to share opinions online.

In real life there may be some Ex Muslims that try to convince religious people, but it’s probably a negligible % specially when compared to Muslims that preach to everyone else.

This is largely true. Atheists generally expressed their opinion in front of people, who they know for years and are frank at different level. You never gonna start talking about Atheism and Philosophy of Science to a stranger... Where as it’s common in Pakistan to get a lecture about Islam from complete stranger, Tabligie, during a bus ride, problem is you can school them ������. Not just that even in US, first thing your fellow Muslim colleague will tell you, pray room or Let’s go to Jumma, just by your name...������

But you cannot stop rest of the world. This wee cannot be won by emotional tools only, religion has hard time competing against Science ������

 

[Ronaldo7]

This is largely true. Atheists generally expressed their opinion in front of people, who they know for years and are frank at different level. You never gonna start talking about Atheism and Philosophy of Science to a stranger... Where as it’s common in Pakistan to get a lecture about Islam from complete stranger, Tabligie, during a bus ride, problem is you can school them ������. Not just that even in US, first thing your fellow Muslim colleague will tell you, pray room or Let’s go to Jumma, just by your name...������

But you cannot stop rest of the world. This wee cannot be won by emotional tools only, religion has hard time competing against Science ������

Pakistan is an ISLAMIC republic so obviously religion plays a big role in life.

And what’s wrong with someone reminding you of your duties?

If you really don’t want to pray then just tell them the truth

 

[yasir]

Pakistan is an ISLAMIC republic so obviously religion plays a big role in life.

And what’s wrong with someone reminding you of your duties?

If you really don’t want to pray then just tell them the truth

Really?? - Tell them the truth and then lynched by the Mob, not that I am currently living there, but why??

I did not think of that MR Genius

 

[The_KING]

Not just that even in US, first thing your fellow Muslim colleague will tell you, pray room or Let’s go to Jumma, just by your name...������

Well then change your name to a non Muslim name if you don’t want people to think you are a Muslim.

 

[kk1992]

Really?? - Tell them the truth and then lynched by the Mob, not that I am currently living there, but why??

I did not think of that MR Genius ������

Know plenty of atheist, and are not getting lynched.

 

[kk1992]

Well then change your name to a non Muslim name if you don’t want people to think you are a Muslim.

Are there any atheist names?