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How do you account for Indian bowling's success as compared to the bowling attacks of other teams in ICC World Cup 2023?

Cryin Out Loud said:
Want to know how Indian pace bowling has transformed? Here it is:

In the early to late 70s we opened the bowling with Sunny Gavaskar just to take the shine off the ball so the spinners could get started.

For a while we had Karsan Ghavri, slow medium at best but our premier pacer.

The eighties saw the statistical anomaly that was Kapil Dev, with a supporting cast of guys like Chetan Sharma and Manoj Prabhakar

The 90s we had Javagal Srinath and Venkatesh Prasad who (as a pace attack group) were a significant qualitative improvement over the past.

In the 2000s we had Zaheer Khan, supported at various times by Ashish Nehra, Irfan Pathan, and a cast of characters that included guys like Balaji.

The 2010s saw another overall qualitative improvement with the coming of Ishant Sharma, Mohammed Shami, Umesh Yadav, Bhuvneshwar Kumar’s. By the later part of this decade Bumrah was in the mix.

In the 2020s Mohammed Siraj was added to the mix. Others like Saini, Aaron, Unadkat we’re tried.

You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to extrapolate what’s happening. From the then MRF pace bowling academy to the IPL to the massive investments in Ranji and players - it is a result of years of effort, player management and behind the scenes support.

There may be an element of luck in that luck these current lot of bowlers have peaked at the same time. But they have always been a formidable force.

The world is just seeing it now.

I joined this forum in 2006, but don’t write much overall, as one can see from the number of my posts.

But I remember writing, maybe 13-14 years ago that Indian pace bowling was going to improve inevitably because there was so much process and systematic background effort put in place.
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I think you are going a bit overboard here.

India only has 3 Pacers. The 4th best pacer is a pathetic bowler like Shardul.

On the other hand, Pakistan has atleast 10 Pacers better than Shardul. I can name them if you want to.

If Bumrah gets injured (which he will eventually) this bowling attack will be exposed.He is the STAND-OUT.

Taking nothing away from Shami and Siraj, but they would look completely different bowlers if Bumrah is not there. Very less effective. Shami has been playing for 10 years now and not once has been considered a World Class bowler. One of the best In India but no where near good pacers from other countries.

I remember watching a match in 2018 when Virat was at the peak of his powers as a cricketer and telling friends its ARGUABLE whether India has the best batsman in the world or not BUT there just cannot be an argument made against Bumrah not bring the best bowler in the WORLD.

The only Indian pacer in history to be counted amongst the All-time Greats.
 
Cryin Out Loud said:
Want to know how Indian pace bowling has transformed? Here it is:

In the early to late 70s we opened the bowling with Sunny Gavaskar just to take the shine off the ball so the spinners could get started.

For a while we had Karsan Ghavri, slow medium at best but our premier pacer.

The eighties saw the statistical anomaly that was Kapil Dev, with a supporting cast of guys like Chetan Sharma and Manoj Prabhakar

The 90s we had Javagal Srinath and Venkatesh Prasad who (as a pace attack group) were a significant qualitative improvement over the past.

In the 2000s we had Zaheer Khan, supported at various times by Ashish Nehra, Irfan Pathan, and a cast of characters that included guys like Balaji.

The 2010s saw another overall qualitative improvement with the coming of Ishant Sharma, Mohammed Shami, Umesh Yadav, Bhuvneshwar Kumar’s. By the later part of this decade Bumrah was in the mix.

In the 2020s Mohammed Siraj was added to the mix. Others like Saini, Aaron, Unadkat we’re tried.

You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to extrapolate what’s happening. From the then MRF pace bowling academy to the IPL to the massive investments in Ranji and players - it is a result of years of effort, player management and behind the scenes support.

There may be an element of luck in that luck these current lot of bowlers have peaked at the same time. But they have always been a formidable force.

The world is just seeing it now.

I joined this forum in 2006, but don’t write much overall, as one can see from the number of my posts.

But I remember writing, maybe 13-14 years ago that Indian pace bowling was going to improve inevitably because there was so much process and systematic background effort put in place.
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I’ll add to this, if some mods can meter the post that would be great.

Every decade or so India has
been consistent in producing outstanding (good to great) batsmen and spin bowlers over the decades. Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kohli just to name the greats, but guys like Sehwag, VVS, as well.

Spinners like Bedi, Pras, Chandra, Kumble, Bhajji Ashwin.

My point is - once we get a similar consistent highest quality output for pacers, which has NEVER happened in our history so far, we have the POTENTIAL to be frighteningly good. Of course transitions, changes, fall in form always require teams to rebuild, so our results will also vary. But at standards that will be hard to match.
 
When compared to other teams, the Indian bowling attack has been more consistent and effective, leading to their success in the tournament. They have been unplayable and have dominated the event so far. Shami is doing wonders for them with 16 wickets in just 4 matches. No doubt that this attack is one of the top pace attacks in this World Cup. Better than almost every term.
 
saqib.rai said:
I think you are going a bit overboard here.

India only has 3 Pacers. The 4th best pacer is a pathetic bowler like Shardul.

On the other hand, Pakistan has atleast 10 Pacers better than Shardul. I can name them if you want to.

If Bumrah gets injured (which he will eventually) this bowling attack will be exposed.He is the STAND-OUT.

Taking nothing away from Shami and Siraj, but they would look completely different bowlers if Bumrah is not there. Very less effective. Shami has been playing for 10 years now and not once has been considered a World Class bowler. One of the best In India but no where near good pacers from other countries.

I remember watching a match in 2018 when Virat was at the peak of his powers as a cricketer and telling friends its ARGUABLE whether India has the best batsman in the world or not BUT there just cannot be an argument made against Bumrah not bring the best bowler in the WORLD.

The only Indian pacer in history to be counted amongst the All-time Greats.
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Follow Indian domestic circuit to know about the talents. In SMA trophy itself, there are atleast 3 bowlers who have been clocking in the range of 147-155k's comfortably. And neither are spray guns. There's more than one non-cricketing reasons for the likes of Shardul to be in the team. But lack of good pace bowlers is not one of them.
 
saqib.rai said:
I think you are going a bit overboard here.

India only has 3 Pacers.
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saqib.rai said:
I think you are going a bit overboard here.

India only has 3 Pacers. The 4th best pacer is a pathetic bowler like Shardul.

On the other hand, Pakistan has atleast 10 Pacers better than Shardul. I can name them if you want to.

If Bumrah gets injured (which he will eventually) this bowling attack will be exposed.He is the STAND-OUT.

Taking nothing away from Shami and Siraj, but they would look completely different bowlers if Bumrah is not there. Very less effective. Shami has been playing for 10 years now and not once has been considered a World Class bowler. One of the best In India but no where near good pacers from other countries.

I remember watching a match in 2018 when Virat was at the peak of his powers as a cricketer and telling friends its ARGUABLE whether India has the best batsman in the world or not BUT there just cannot be an argument made against Bumrah not bring the best bowler in the WORLD.

The only Indian pacer in history to be counted amongst the All-time Greats.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Here is my reply

That’s all a cricket team needs. It’s a huge luxury and very hard to get. If ANY team has three pavers I’d this quality and consistency it will be really good.

Think of how many fantastic pacers there were in the Aussie ATG teams.

Again- to have three good quality pacers in a team is a huge huge accomplishment. In India’s case it’s the result of decades of hard work.

I agree with you Thakur is crap. But he’s not the fourth best paver, he’s an ‘all rounder’ (allegedly).

As an aside, stepping up to international standards from domestic is so tough for players and especially bowlers, I personally have found it not not worthwhile comparing bowlers at the domestic level when the standard is international.

If Bumrah is injured, well we will suffer. But that happens to all teams when a great player (especially bowler) is out of contention. Remember what happened to Australia in that Ashes series when McGrath twisted his ankle?
 
par said:
Bumrah was part of only 5 of those 15 matches you've highlighted. And Siraj 6, Shami 3, Jadeja 5, Kuldeep 6.
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yes. India did so many experiments with their pace combination. So this hardly reflects their true capacity. Arshdeep singh, Thakur, Chahar even Unadkat, Mukesh kumar played for us.
 
Cryin Out Loud said:
Fair enough. Here is my reply

That’s all a cricket team needs. It’s a huge luxury and very hard to get. If ANY team has three pavers I’d this quality and consistency it will be really good.

Think of how many fantastic pacers there were in the Aussie ATG teams.

Again- to have three good quality pacers in a team is a huge huge accomplishment. In India’s case it’s the result of decades of hard work.

I agree with you Thakur is crap. But he’s not the fourth best paver, he’s an ‘all rounder’ (allegedly).

As an aside, stepping up to international standards from domestic is so tough for players and especially bowlers, I personally have found it not not worthwhile comparing bowlers at the domestic level when the standard is international.

If Bumrah is injured, well we will suffer. But that happens to all teams when a great player (especially bowler) is out of contention. Remember what happened to Australia in that Ashes series when McGrath twisted his ankle?
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Point taken. But would having 1 World class and 2 good pacers in the country really constitute TRANSFORMATION? the word that people used

Okay If Shardul is not the 4th best who is?

Arshdeep, Umesh Yadav, Deepak Chahar, Prasidh Krishna, Harshal Patel, Umran Malik, Avesh Khan, Navdeep Saini, Prasidh Krishna, Natarajan are all AVERAGE AND NOT WORLD CLASS and especially seeing Mukesh Kumar a couple of months ago making his debut, it is clear India is far behind fast bowling backup that the great sides of the past used to have
 
They’re all amazing bowlers hitting their peak at the same time and bowling in home conditions. That’s a recipe for success.
 
chinaman00 said:
Thanks for this.

Aligns with my assumptions. Fits current trend of big home advantages, even in world cups.
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That's why stats are misleading

I don't think India ever played Bumrah, Siraj and Shami together in any of these matches

They were rotating their fast bowlers unlike us who were playing Shaheen and Naseem even against the Netherlands

But this proves one point: India has not TRANSFORMED in the fast bowling resources like many Indian posters would like to think

They only have ONE world class bowler (Bumrah) and TWO good bowlers (Shami and Siraj). Every other fast bowler they have is MEDIOCRE
 
jnaveen1980 said:
This is probably the first time i see 5 match winners with ball in the same team. Any world cup for that matter. Even in the 80s 5th bowler was Richards or Gomez or bacchus. How far they will help India win the cup nobody knows. It is down to batsmen. 5 match winning bowlers >> 6 match winning batsmen for the simple reason bowlers can make mistake and come back in the same innings. Batsmen can't.
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In sena though kuldeep would still be ok but jadeja will fail. India If they bring in say tyagi or pandya back then it will be potent again even in sena.
 
saqib.rai said:
That's why stats are misleading

I don't think India ever played Bumrah, Siraj and Shami together in any of these matches

They were rotating their fast bowlers unlike us who were playing Shaheen and Naseem even against the Netherlands

But this proves one point: India has not TRANSFORMED in the fast bowling resources like many Indian posters would like to think

They only have ONE world class bowler (Bumrah) and TWO good bowlers (Shami and Siraj). Every other fast bowler they have is MEDIOCRE
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Wouldn't say they have mediocre bench.
Burmah is elite. Shami is elite too. Siraj very good.

Just a touch under

But their reserve is really good. Tyagi prasidh and harshit is a brutal bench. Pace bounce movement etc.
 
kron said:
Wouldn't say they have mediocre bench.
Burmah is elite. Shami is elite too. Siraj very good.

Just a touch under

But their reserve is really good. Tyagi prasidh and harshit is a brutal bench. Pace bounce movement etc.
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Shami is not elite. The guy has been around for 10 years and was on the bench just 2 weeks ago

Tyagi I haven't seen but if Mukesh Kumar gets to debut before him, then he Cant be good

I saw Harshal in the t20s he played against South Africa last year. I think it was before the t20 WC. he got hammered left, right and centre. Mediocre bowler
 
W63L35 said:
Excellent first point.... I filtered the bowling stats from Jan 2022 to the start of this WC by removing matches in Asia.... and Indian bowling falls to middle of the pack!

S/R: 5th.

View attachment 138773

E/R: 7th.

View attachment 138774


Average: 6th.

View attachment 138775
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Wow interesting. Bumrah dint play these games I assume? That's pretty shocking considering how good they have looked. Bit surprised australia and India are middle of the pack.
 
saqib.rai said:
Shami is not elite. The guy has been around for 10 years and was on the bench just 2 weeks ago

Tyagi I haven't seen but if Mukesh Kumar gets to debut before him, then he Cant be good

I saw Harshal in the t20s he played against South Africa last year. I think it was before the t20 WC. he got hammered left, right and centre. Mediocre bowler
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Yes not sure why India select trundlers for their bench when talented genuine quick bowlers like tyagi prasidh and harshit are left out. I guess there is some kind of political quota for this rubbish. Arshdeep lol and buuvaneshwar kumar. Not sure why India would pick these 2. The ones I mentioned look class apart.
 
Cryin Out Loud said:
I’ll add to this, if some mods can meter the post that would be great.

Every decade or so India has been consistent in producing outstanding (good to great) batsmen and spin bowlers over the decades. Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kohli just to name the greats, but guys like Sehwag, VVS, as well.

Spinners like Bedi, Pras, Chandra, Kumble, Bhajji Ashwin.

My point is - once we get a similar consistent highest quality output for pacers, which has NEVER happened in our history so far, we have the POTENTIAL to be frighteningly good. Of course transitions, changes, fall in form always require teams to rebuild, so our results will also vary. But at standards that will be hard to match.
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You made a lot of good points in this post as well as the previous post & I more or less agree on your assessment on why/how Ind gradually transformed themselves from a traditional trundlers army to an absolute pace juggernaut.

However have to largely differ in some points regarding your claim about Ind always having great batsmen & spinners. I think that's incorrect, Ind had little to no spin stability in the 80's after the retirement of the quartet. With the rise of Kumble till now Ind have undoubtedly dominated the department in last 30 years.

Similarly up until 96/97 the batting line up was definitely not world class. Specially in odi. Other than Sachin & frustratingly inconsistent Azhar who was truly world class? Jadeja was lazy & never worked hard enough to fulfill his potential, Kambli was a crybaby maverick & of course then there were complete duds like Manjrekar, Pravakar & the current batting coach. It wasn't until Ganguly, Dravid & Laxman settled down as well introduction of Shewag & Yuvraj that Ind truly became a batting force. I mean there's a reason why Ind couldn't score a freaking 300 total until 96! The point I am trying to make is that Ind always had one or two great players here & there but as a lineup they became a heavyweight only after Ganguly took over. He had an aggressive outlook & always backed impact players like Shewag, Yuvraj & Dhoni instead of more traditional accumulators like Laxman. You can say for roughly last 25 years Ind have been a true batting force. Before then it always about individual brilliance or simply playing too many wrong players in this format (Gavaskar, Manjrekar, Shashtri etc).
 
saqib.rai said:
Australia plays many sports. The number of active cricketers is very less

India only plays one sport. Has a population 60 times that of Australia. Has a large number of people persuing cricket full time- active cricketers

STILL
are massively behind Australia in terms of cricketing achievements
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India plays only one sport ?? That's new to me..
 
Their lines are good and I can give full credit to the medium pace seam bowlers who are getting it to swing prodigiously and also importantly are bowling great lines. Other bowlers have got swing in the tournament (maybe not as much) but they haven’t been consistent.

However, SA gifting a 5fer to Jadeja is criminal. Some every odd umpiring / DRS decisions too
 
'We were out-skilled'

South Africa were let down by their skills in a team record 243-run loss to hosts India at the Cricket World Cup on Sunday, but with a semi-final place already booked there will be no panic in the camp, says coach Rob Walter.

India dominated the game from the first ball as they posted 326 for five on a tricky wicket, before skittling South Africa for 83 to inflict a heaviest ever defeat on the latter in One-Day Internationals.

Walter believes his side did not come close to putting their best foot forward on an off day.

"To be fair, it is just a day that we were out-skilled," he told reporters. "I didn't feel that was a 320 pitch, it was too much on that deck and then from a bowling point of view they put us under pressure right from the word go.

"They are a hell of a team, very well balanced and highly skilled. There's no way around it. They've won every game and they've won them well."

It is a result that laid bare an undeniable truth about this South African side -- they struggle chasing targets.

The side have five dominant wins batting first, easily passing 300 on each occasion, but have lost to the Netherlands and India chasing, and scraped home by one wicket against Pakistan having been set 271 to win.

Walter says fielding first against India was also a hindrance for his bowlers.

"We have been able to swing the ball, the new ball, and most of the time we've been doing it at night (bowling second). Bowling first, there wasn't as much swing as we've been used to," he said.

South Africa play Afghanistan next on Friday, a chance to regain some confidence and form going into their semi-final.

Should his side meet India again in the tournament, Walter says there is no reason why they cannot win.

"This is a funny game and you get taught new lessons and surprised every single day," he said. "It wouldn't surprise me if the tables turned next time around.

"The beauty of it is that there may well be another shot for us and we've been given an opportunity to learn."

REDIFF
 
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saqib.rai said:
Shami is not elite. The guy has been around for 10 years and was on the bench just 2 weeks ago
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But in that Shami's sajda thread you said Shami was on bench due to his religion. And your imaginary 1/11 maximum Muslim representation in Indian team was being fulfilled by Siraj. 🤦‍♂️

Here you are saying Shami was on bench because he isn't good enough bowler.

Which one is it then? You need to stick to one point for people to take you seriously. Lol
 
Hitman said:
Come on, the Australian team of the 2003 and 2007 WC were arguably the greatest teams in history.
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And? Does Murphy's Law not apply to people from Australia?

Just saying, it's a stupid theory and you can go an entire tournament without losing a match.
 
Thanos said:
But in that Shami's sajda thread you said Shami was on bench due to his religion. And your imaginary 1/11 maximum Muslim representation in Indian team was being fulfilled by Siraj. 🤦‍♂️

Here you are saying Shami was on bench because he isn't good enough bowler.
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And here I have been saying that Shami is one of the top 3 fast bowlers In India. But Indian fast bowling has not TRANSFORMED as many Indian fans believe because India has 1 world class bowler (Bumrah) and 2 good bowlers (Shami and Siraj).
However, the bench strength is pathetic otherwise bowlers like Mukesh Kumar would not be making their debuts just a couple of months ago.

Pakistan has atleast 10 bowlers better than the 4th best fast bowler in India (Shardul). I am assuming its Shardul as he got selected in the WC
 
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uppercut said:
All umpiring decisions today when India bowled went against them but overturned by DRS. So which DRS decisions were "odd" according to you ?
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Klaasen was definitely odd. It was marginally outside leg stump. Marginal calls belong to the onfield umpire.

Firstly, India are good enough to win the match without it, but why do it?
 
What some people say here is the truth
 
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ahhh ... I should have known better ... but hey there is hope you know ... umeed pey duniya etc ;) :ROFLMAO:
 
saqib.rai said:
And here I have been saying that Shami is one of the top 3 fast bowlers In India. But Indian fast bowling has not TRANSFORMED as many Indian fans believe because India has 1 world class bowler (Bumrah) and 2 good bowlers (Shami and Siraj).
However, the bench strength is pathetic otherwise bowlers like Mukesh Kumar would not be making their debuts just a couple of months ago.

Pakistan has atleast 10 bowlers better than the 4th best fast bowler in India (Shardul). I am assuming its Shardul as he got selected in the WC
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I ain't talking whether India's bowling has transformed or not, or Pak has 10 or 20 better bowlers than India. Neither I care about Mukesh or Shardul who you think is 4th best fast bowler from India. (This one is another gem of your cricket analysis. Lol)

So stop beating around the bush.
Thing is you can't back your own point and change the stand to suit the argument, where Shami is benched due to religion in one thread and due to his bowling in another. Lol
 
uppercut said:
ahhh ... I should have known better ... but hey there is hope you know ... umeed pey duniya etc ;) :ROFLMAO:
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Jadeja picked up five wickets and finished with career-best figures. We were talking about technology where DRS was being taken. Van de Dussen was the batter and the ball was hitting the middle stump after pitching on leg stump. How is that possible?
 
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So it's that same 'expert' Hasan Raza who is offering his not so expert opinion on why India is winning.
 
Do these guys even know that they are only harming the name of their nation by propagating these wild conspiracy theories. What do they get out of this? More subscribers to their channel?
 
India's bench actually is very strong saqib bhai.

Prasidh is better than most of our bowlers. Tyagi kid is brutal. If he stays injury free he is easily their next bumrah.
Harshit looked good and some new kid mayank who is rapid.

I dont know bro. Looks pretty damn elite to me.

We have to groom zaman khan, irfanullah and Mohammed ali for the future. These guys barring zaman and perhaps Zeehan (who is still raw) don't look ready yet. The Indians seem to be more prepared as of now.
 
TheSultan said:
Their lines are good and I can give full credit to the medium pace seam bowlers who are getting it to swing prodigiously and also importantly are bowling great lines. Other bowlers have got swing in the tournament (maybe not as much) but they haven’t been consistent.

However, SA gifting a 5fer to Jadeja is criminal. Some every odd umpiring / DRS decisions too
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Medium pace? - False. All 3 consistently bowled 140k plus right through their spell. I don't think any team has all 3 bowlers bowling at that speed. Even Pandya can bend his back and bowl at that speed.

Gifted? - False. Jadeja is unplayable on surfaces with natural variations. Anyone who has played Tests here know. That was almost like a Test match. Kuldeep is another guy who almost all top batsmen still being unable to pick. Ashwin is another guy who can make you look even worse. Too bad INdia can't have 6 bowlers.

DRS decision - False. This is just a narrative being pushed by social media trolls to get more impressions.
 
kron said:
India's bench actually is very strong saqib bhai.

Prasidh is better than most of our bowlers. Tyagi kid is brutal. If he stays injury free he is easily their next bumrah.
Harshit looked good and some new kid mayank who is rapid.

I dont know bro. Looks pretty damn elite to me.

We have to groom zaman khan, irfanullah and Mohammed ali for the future. These guys barring zaman and perhaps Zeehan (who is still raw) don't look ready yet. The Indians seem to be more prepared as of now.
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HRitish Rana, Hangarkekar, Kuldeep sen are all good. Moshin khan if he finds his mojo back he is another one.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Medium pace? - False. All 3 consistently bowled 140k plus right through their spell. I don't think any team has all 3 bowlers bowling at that speed. Even Pandya can bend his back and bowl at that speed.

Gifted? - False. Jadeja is unplayable on surfaces with natural variations. Anyone who has played Tests here know. That was almost like a Test match. Kuldeep is another guy who almost all top batsmen still being unable to pick. Ashwin is another guy who can make you look even worse. Too bad INdia can't have 6 bowlers.

DRS decision - False. This is just a narrative being pushed by social media trolls to get more impressions.
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I think lot of old school Pakistani fans can't seem to accept the fact that Indian bowlers are rapid. Bumrah siraj shami all bowl 137-145.

It's sad to see our fans stoop to such levels to undermine quality but I guess after having the likes of wasim, Waqar and imran in the past when we used to dominate india, our fans are just refusing to appreciate how India's pace stock has supplanted our position to become the number 1 pace battery unit in modern times.

What I don't get though is your own commie dk calls bumrah and shami medium pace when they are bowling quick lol? Is he doing it to get a reaction out of Pollock? To get corrected so he gets pleasure out of seeing Pollock praise indian quicks? I am not understanding.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Medium pace? - False. All 3 consistently bowled 140k plus right through their spell. I don't think any team has all 3 bowlers bowling at that speed. Even Pandya can bend his back and bowl at that speed.

Gifted? - False. Jadeja is unplayable on surfaces with natural variations. Anyone who has played Tests here know. That was almost like a Test match. Kuldeep is another guy who almost all top batsmen still being unable to pick. Ashwin is another guy who can make you look even worse. Too bad INdia can't have 6 bowlers.

DRS decision - False. This is just a narrative being pushed by social media trolls to get more impressions.
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Btw
Indian attack. I had a look for pacers. Not much difference between sena pak and India since 2020 in SENA conditions.

India were 4th by the looks of it at 28 29
S.africa were 26
 
kron said:
My indian buddy, my best friend actually showed me a video of mayank yadav. Apparently he bowled 155? Is that true?
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Yes he is quick. Generates good bounce of the deck. Lot of new guys are coming up. Umran's arrival has encouraged a lot of bowlers.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Medium pace? - False. All 3 consistently bowled 140k plus right through their spell. I don't think any team has all 3 bowlers bowling at that speed. Even Pandya can bend his back and bowl at that speed.

Gifted? - False. Jadeja is unplayable on surfaces with natural variations. Anyone who has played Tests here know. That was almost like a Test match. Kuldeep is another guy who almost all top batsmen still being unable to pick. Ashwin is another guy who can make you look even worse. Too bad INdia can't have 6 bowlers.

DRS decision - False. This is just a narrative being pushed by social media trolls to get more impressions.
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Yaar Aqib Javed used to bowl a few sharp spells here and there, we used to still call him a medium pacer.

Jadeja is a part timer. Geoff boycott’s grandma could have played him with a stick of rhubarb.

DRS Decision - it is what it was, you just need to watch it - the margin belongs to the umpire, if the rules have changed I’ll hold my hands up.

And as I said it would make no difference to the outcome. I think Indians need to believe in themselves more. There’s no need for all this underhand stuff anymore. Your team is good enough to win without all this DRS assistance.
 
kron said:
I think lot of old school Pakistani fans can't seem to accept the fact that Indian bowlers are rapid. Bumrah siraj shami all bowl 137-145.

It's sad to see our fans stoop to such levels to undermine quality but I guess after having the likes of wasim, Waqar and imran in the past when we used to dominate india, our fans are just refusing to appreciate how India's pace stock has supplanted our position to become the number 1 pace battery unit in modern times.

What I don't get though is your own commie dk calls bumrah and shami medium pace when they are bowling quick lol? Is he doing it to get a reaction out of Pollock? To get corrected so he gets pleasure out of seeing Pollock prase indian quicks? I am not understanding.
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You hit the nail. A lot of old school Pakistan fans cant accept the fact that Indian bowlers have pace, swing the ball and are accurate in line and length and getting wickets. I mean how come the ''sabzi dal roti" eaters suddenly got this ability. The story fed to them over ages will loose credibility..aint it?
I actually like the chip in the ball theory floating around.
 
Credit where due. These guys have dominated with the ball, and if they win the world cup, it would be because of their bowling and batting.

India won the 2011 world cup cause of their batting and being used to the conditions, but winning cause of their bowling and that too pace bowling is going to be a first.

On such wickets, the way Shami has bowled is just crazy. Its funny when you look at the fact that Shami did not even play all teh games.

India does treat him bad, and Shami has to make his way through 5vers. I remember his hattrick against Afghanistan in 2019.
 
saqib.rai said:
It's not better.
Its Pathetic to lose semis after dominating the group stage and its pathetic to depend on other teams to reach semis

Cricket is hardly played by 6 countries seriously still India with a 1.4 billion population (one sport country) cant win a SINGLE Icc event in 10 years
Click to expand...
LOL

India is not a single sport country, we are no. 3 in field hockey, have Olympic GOLD in Javelin, have been winning few world championship medals in wrestling, shooting, boxing, badminton, tennis (doubles & mixed doubles) & Archery.

Last but not least Kabaddi is super famous and we are no.1 even though only few countries play it.

Cricket is the no. 1 sport and the most popular one but there are millions of kids who play other sports and are looking for a future in it. You will be surprised to see how many teen kids are not interested in cricket at all these days, soccer/ basket ball/ f1/ badminton is priority no 1.
 
Major said:
Credit where due. These guys have dominated with the ball, and if they win the world cup, it would be because of their bowling and batting.

India won the 2011 world cup cause of their batting and being used to the conditions, but winning cause of their bowling and that too pace bowling is going to be a first.

On such wickets, the way Shami has bowled is just crazy. Its funny when you look at the fact that Shami did not even play all teh games.

India does treat him bad, and Shami has to make his way through 5vers. I remember his hattrick against Afghanistan in 2019.
Click to expand...
They are investing on Siraj than Shami due to age factor.
 
Major said:
Credit where due. These guys have dominated with the ball, and if they win the world cup, it would be because of their bowling and batting.

India won the 2011 world cup cause of their batting and being used to the conditions, but winning cause of their bowling and that too pace bowling is going to be a first.

On such wickets, the way Shami has bowled is just crazy. Its funny when you look at the fact that Shami did not even play all teh games.

India does treat him bad, and Shami has to make his way through 5vers. I remember his hattrick against Afghanistan in 2019.
Click to expand...

I think it is mostly to do with Indian batsmen not being able to bowl any overs. With Shami Indian tail becomes very long. So they use this fake all rounder SHardul Thakur in place. For the exact same reason India dropped shami in 2019 world cup semi final. Ganguly was shocked and expressed immediately at dropping him.

Jadeja/Chahal over Kuldeep because jadeja could bat. But he could have played in place of Chahal
Bhuvi over Shami because Bhuvi can bat a bit.
Pandya limped off after 5 overs. India could have bowled NZ out under 100 runs with the current bowling unit. Because of compromised picks and fake all rounders India let them score 240.
 
Bringing population will make every country look inferior in sports when compared to NZ, Australia, Netherlands.
 
India are due a bad game, probably semis, chasing 300 and top 3 fail.
I do not think they will lose in finals, if they reach...
 
AamchiMumbaikar said:
LOL

India is not a single sport country, we are no. 3 in field hockey, have Olympic GOLD in Javelin, have been winning few world championship medals in wrestling, shooting, boxing, badminton, tennis (doubles & mixed doubles) & Archery.

Last but not least Kabaddi is super famous and we are no.1 even though only few countries play it.

Cricket is the no. 1 sport and the most popular one but there are millions of kids who play other sports and are looking for a future in it. You will be surprised to see how many teen kids are not interested in cricket at all these days, soccer/ basket ball/ f1/ badminton is priority no 1.
Click to expand...
You guys only had a SINGLE gold in last Olympics which shows India is a One sport country.

In boxing, how many Indians are in the top 100 pound for pound ranking? ZERO. Not even a single boxer in top 100.
Boxing at Olympics is an amateur sport. Top boxers don't compete.

Last time India reached semi-final of Hockey World Cup in 1975. Please don't count hockey as a sport you guys are good at. Pakistan has won the Hockey World Cup most number of times.

Wrestling is irrelevant now. People only watch boxing and MMA. No country takes Dangal seriously apart from India. Same for kabaddi. Seriously you put kabaddi in your post lol

Shooting and archery are not sports. Even a 500 pound human can win in them.

How many times has an Indian tennis players reached round of 16 in Grand Slam Singles? ZERO. 4 Grand Slams every year still NO Indian has even reached top 16 EVER
In Grand Slam doubles, top players dont compete so winning it doesn't matter.

Badminton yes, credit where its due.

So India is a TWO sport country and the second sport is Badminton. The most girly sport ever. Congrats
 
Hitman said:
A part timer with a Test bowling average of 24 :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
It requires special level of ignorance not to know about current players like Jadeja. It is not like 200 countries are playing this sports. Some fans know about even future potentials (ala Brevis, Tom prest.. etc) . Some don't even know about current greats like this one.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
It requires special level of ignorance not to know about current players like Jadeja. It is not like 200 countries are playing this sports. Some fans know about even future potentials (ala Brevis, Tom prest.. etc) . Some don't even know about current greats like this one.
Click to expand...
People consider Abdul Qadir to be better than Shane Warne, Saleem Malik to be a great batsman, Shoaib Akhtar a legend, and Mohammad Yousuf an ATG. :LOL:
 
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saqib.rai said:
And here I have been saying that Shami is one of the top 3 fast bowlers In India. But Indian fast bowling has not TRANSFORMED as many Indian fans believe because India has 1 world class bowler (Bumrah) and 2 good bowlers (Shami and Siraj).
However, the bench strength is pathetic otherwise bowlers like Mukesh Kumar would not be making their debuts just a couple of months ago.

Pakistan has atleast 10 bowlers better than the 4th best fast bowler in India (Shardul). I am assuming its Shardul as he got selected in the WC
Click to expand...
So where are those 10 bowlers you keep talking about in this World Cup ? Why aren’t they running through sides ?
 
vprasanna83 said:
So where are those 10 bowlers you keep talking about in this World Cup ? Why aren’t they running through sides ?
Click to expand...
Because Shardul also didn't run through sides in the matches he played
Shaheen, Naseem, Haris Rauf, Ihsanullah, Mohammed Hasnain, Zaman Khan, Hasan Ali, Mohammed Wasim jnr are all better than your 4th best pacer Shardul
 
saqib.rai said:
You guys only had a SINGLE gold in last Olympics which shows India is a One sport country.

In boxing, how many Indians are in the top 100 pound for pound ranking? ZERO. Not even a single boxer in top 100.
Boxing at Olympics is an amateur sport. Top boxers don't compete.

Last time India reached semi-final of Hockey World Cup in 1975. Please don't count hockey as a sport you guys are good at. Pakistan has won the Hockey World Cup most number of times.

Wrestling is irrelevant now. People only watch boxing and MMA. No country takes Dangal seriously apart from India. Same for kabaddi. Seriously you put kabaddi in your post lol

Shooting and archery are not sports. Even a 500 pound human can win in them.

How many times has an Indian tennis players reached round of 16 in Grand Slam Singles? ZERO. 4 Grand Slams every year still NO Indian has even reached top 16 EVER
In Grand Slam doubles, top players dont compete so winning it doesn't matter.

Badminton yes, credit where its due.

So India is a TWO sport country and the second sport is Badminton. The most girly sport ever. Congrats
Click to expand...
Wrestling is a physical sport bro. But yea boxing at Olympics is amateur level.
 
saqib.rai said:
Because Shardul also didn't run through sides in the matches he played
Shaheen, Naseem, Haris Rauf, Ihsanullah, Mohammed Hasnain, Zaman Khan, Hasan Ali, Mohammed Wasim jnr are all better than your 4th best pacer Shardul
Click to expand...
Haha , you need to watch IPL or domestic cricket to realise that Shardul is not our “ 4th best pacer “ . In fact we pick him more for his No 8 batting than his bowling.

A better comparison would be to to compare all those “talented “ Pak bowlers ( other than Shaheen and Naseem ) with Prasidh , Navdeep , Umran , et.Al . Not saying our guys are great , but they may go for half the amount of runs in an ODI as your sensational phassssttt bowler Haris Rauf 😁
 
I dont e remember which Pakistan bowler has a long career in recent times. Did Afridi played in 2019 world cup?ven
 
Hitman said:
People consider Abdul Qadir to be better than Shane Warne, Saleem Malik to be a great batsman, Shoaib Akhtar a legend, and Mohammad Yousuf an ATG. :LOL:
Click to expand...
What's wrong with those statements?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
saqib.rai said:
And here I have been saying that Shami is one of the top 3 fast bowlers In India. But Indian fast bowling has not TRANSFORMED as many Indian fans believe because India has 1 world class bowler (Bumrah) and 2 good bowlers (Shami and Siraj).
However, the bench strength is pathetic otherwise bowlers like Mukesh Kumar would not be making their debuts just a couple of months ago.

Pakistan has atleast 10 bowlers better than the 4th best fast bowler in India (Shardul). I am assuming its Shardul as he got selected in the WC
Click to expand...
Pakistan can have 50 better pacers if they want but it doesn’t matter when their three best pacers are nowhere near India’s three best pacers.

We make a lot of noise and do best this and that, but the bitter reality is that Shaheen, Naseem and Rauf are nowhere near Bumrah, Shami and Siraj individually and collectively.
 
Mamoon said:
Pakistan can have 50 better pacers if they want but it doesn’t matter when their three best pacers are nowhere near India’s three best pacers.

We make a lot of noise and do best this and that, but the bitter reality is that Shaheen, Naseem and Rauf are nowhere near Bumrah, Shami and Siraj individually and collectively.
Click to expand...
Cmon man. Shaheen and Naseem are just as good if not better than the 3 Indian quicks.

Last year around this time, Shaheen and Naseem made a 130 target look like a 200 target against the team that had just beaten India by 10 wickets chasing 170.

Both compliment each other really well. That is why Shaheen hasn't been at his best this WC.
he is still one of the top 5 wicket-takers in the WC and still people want better performance just shows the standard he has set for himself
 
Indian batting lower order is a fraud and overrated. No doubt. But indian bowling is class.

Our attack would only be better in play station.
 
saqib.rai said:
Cmon man. Shaheen and Naseem are just as good if not better than the 3 Indian quicks.

Last year around this time, Shaheen and Naseem made a 130 target look like a 200 target against the team that had just beaten India by 10 wickets chasing 170.

Both compliment each other really well. That is why Shaheen hasn't been at his best this WC.
he is still one of the top 5 wicket-takers in the WC and still people want better performance just shows the standard he has set for himself
Click to expand...
Both attacks don't have any resemblance other than Shami.Mcg pitch was seaming one where as Adelaide was belter.Indian attack with natarajan took 20 wickets in Gabba,so should we consider pak attack which can't take 10 wickets on a seaming patch as a toothless?
 
Indian bowling is the best of all time literally unplayable. I will go as far to say this attack is better than the Great Australian World Cup winning attack .

Bumrah, siraj and shami all time greats speed, line length they have the lot. Incredible attack and win this including the next World Cup too
 
They clearly have more experience of bowling on these pitches and conditions than any other team. No wonder, they have performed exceptionally well, especially Shami who wasn't in India's preferred playing XI at the start of the World Cup.
 
Kohli - 711 runs.
Rohit - 550 runs.
Iyer - 526 runs.
Rahul - 386 runs.
Gill - 346 runs.
Shami - 23 wickets.
Bumrah - 18 wickets.
Jadeja - 16 wickets.
Kuldeep - 15 wickets.
Siraj - 13 wickets.
 
Indian bowlers have clearly shown better control over the ball in this World Cup and most importantly they are well balanced with their spin attack which makes them a perfect bowling unit.
 
JAV12341 said:
Indian bowling is the best of all time literally unplayable. I will go as far to say this attack is better than the Great Australian World Cup winning attack .

Bumrah, siraj and shami all time greats speed, line length they have the lot. Incredible attack and win this including the next World Cup too
Click to expand...
No they aren't better than Aussie of 2003 to 2007.
Not with siraj especially. No chance.
 
The only weakness in their bowling attack is that they don't have a decent sixth bowling option. Even that gets resolved once Hardik comes back in for Sky.
 
kron said:
No they aren't better than Aussie of 2003 to 2007.
Not with siraj especially. No chance.
Click to expand...
2003 AUstralian bowling was okay other than Lee and Mcgrath. NOt as versatile as this. Current Aussie bowling attack is superior. India is superior to current Australian attack.
 
Sachin136 said:
The only weakness in their bowling attack is that they don't have a decent sixth bowling option. Even that gets resolved once Hardik comes back in for Sky.
Click to expand...
Once wc is over ,we should go for jaiswal,tilak etc in place of iyer,rohit ,kohli etc.we should go for the future bets.Iyer unless his short ball issues are fixed,should be thrown out.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
2003 AUstralian bowling was okay other than Lee and Mcgrath. NOt as versatile as this. Current Aussie bowling attack is superior. India is superior to current Australian attack.
Click to expand...
Mcgrath > bumrah especially considering his failure in ko. 54 average in ko.
Shami > Lee
Gillespie > siraj
Was injured so bichel played
Warne>> kuldeep

In Asian conditions india with slight edge due to spin with kuldeep and jaddeja

In other conditions Australia holds the edge.
 
kron said:
No they aren't better than Aussie of 2003 to 2007.
Not with siraj especially. No chance.
Click to expand...
Siraj is the weak link.

A very unreliable bowler who is an awful fielder/catcher and Chris martinishque batter.
 
kron said:
Mcgrath > bumrah especially considering his failure in ko. 54 average in ko.
Shami > Lee
Gillespie > siraj
Was injured so bichel played
Warne>> kuldeep

In Asian conditions india with slight edge due to spin with kuldeep and jaddeja

In other conditions Australia holds the edge.
Click to expand...
I don't think warne played. He failed drug test
 
They have used customised balls, bowled on hand picked pitches. The toss was manipulated, the oppositions were bought. Hence no credit to them but to the BCCI who remain by far the best cricket board in the world which is the biggest flex for Bharatiyas.
 
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