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How do you rank Virat Kohli as a Test batsman?

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Ted123

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In limited overs, he has already entered into league of one of the greatest bat ever.

However, in tests, he had a moderate start but he has picked up heavily in last 2.5 years. Do you think he will end up as an ATG and where will he be ranked among the Indian test batters?
 
A high quality all-condition test batsmen.

He will become India's third greatest test batsmen of all-time.
 
Nowhere near an ATG so far. However he's not even 30 so he can clearly improve and finish his Test career as a great. So far I wouldn't say his Test career is anything to write home about. For a Test player to be highly ranked, they have to do good in the big tours as many batsmen can score runs in their home country/same continent. His record in England is awful, and the one game India have won there where he played, he hardly done anything.

Although to be fair, he may just seem average in Tests to me because of how good he is in ODI's and T20I's, I'm sure if he played Tests only and had the same record I would rate him higher.
 
I don’t rate him that highly in tests yet. Apart from that series in Australia and recently in South Africa he doesn’t seem to have had much impact overseas.

Has scored a lot of soft runs IMO.
 
hadi123 said:
Nowhere near an ATG so far. However he's not even 30 so he can clearly improve and finish his Test career as a great. So far I wouldn't say his Test career is anything to write home about. For a Test player to be highly ranked, they have to do good in the big tours as many batsmen can score runs in their home country/same continent. His record in England is awful, and the one game India have won there where he played, he hardly done anything.

Although to be fair, he may just seem average in Tests to me because of how good he is in ODI's and T20I's, I'm sure if he played Tests only and had the same record I would rate him higher.
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To his credit, he did very well in 2 SA tours and one Aus tours.
 
Buffet said:
To his credit, he did very well in 2 SA tours and one Aus tours.
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Yeah he did, I was playing around with some stats and his record is better than I thought, but I think his average in England is just way too bad, it's almost like a tail ender's record!
 
Overrated in tests imo. Way too inconsistent (boom or bust), and average is England is a deal-breaker.
 
hadi123 said:
Nowhere near an ATG so far. However he's not even 30 so he can clearly improve and finish his Test career as a great. So far I wouldn't say his Test career is anything to write home about. For a Test player to be highly ranked, they have to do good in the big tours as many batsmen can score runs in their home country/same continent. His record in England is awful, and the one game India have won there where he played, he hardly done anything.

Although to be fair, he may just seem average in Tests to me because of how good he is in ODI's and T20I's, I'm sure if he played Tests only and had the same record I would rate him higher.
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No disrespect intended but i don't think that the second para makes any sense at all.

You don't rate Bevan in ODIs because he could never find his feet in test cricket?

You don't rate Cook in tests because he was a useless ODI and T-20 batsman for majority of his career?
 
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Rahul1 said:
No disrespect intended but i don't think that the second para makes any sense at all.

You don't rate Bevan in ODIs because he could never find his feet in test cricket?

You don't rate Cook in tests because he was a useless ODI and T-20 batsman for majority of his career?
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No, what I'm trying to say is because he is just so good in ODI's and T20's, it sets the bar so high for him in Tests, and I do not think he is as good in Tests as he is in the other formats - in ODI's he is just insane but in Tests I wouldn't fear him as much as I would in ODI's and T20's.
 
His record is already better than some ATGs. 21 centuries (6 double 100s) in 66 matches. Crossed 900 rating too. He will surely be ranked among ATGs.
 
anoop said:
His record is already better than some ATGs. 21 centuries (6 double 100s) in 66 matches. Crossed 900 rating too. He will surely be ranked among ATGs.
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Not if he doesn't fix his record in England. There's a limit to how bad you can be in one country.
 
Not seen much of him. Will know more by the end of September.
 
He was not ATG in tests 2 years ago but he has transformed into a marvelous test batsman. His overseas record is phenomenal. He has failed in England but that's just one country.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Not if he doesn't fix his record in England. There's a limit to how bad you can be in one country.
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Let me put a hypothetical scenario.

If he scores big in series and India wins in Aus and SA, I can guarantee that very few fans will hold his poor record in Eng against him when it comes to ATG tag.

Personally, I don't think that he has done enough to get into ATG league. He has to do a lot more to get there, but he has been doing very well in the test format for the last few years.
 
anoop said:
Muralitharan record in australia (Avg 75) in India (Avg 45) is as bad as Kohli's england record. Why is he an ATG ?
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Murali has tons of other records though. Most 5/10 wkt hauls, most wickets etc. Kohli won't get any test record except maybe the number of double tons. Not that most ATG own many records individually, but almost everyone has pretty even stats.

Anyway, batsmen and bowlers can't be compared directly. I don't know any single ATG batsman who has below 20 average in any country where they played more than 5 tests. For bowlers it's not similar, since you have spinners and pacers who have completely different stats.
 
Kohli is already an India great and with Smith out of picture, the single greatest batting force in the world today in Tests.

No Asian batsman has ever had the kind of record he's had in Aus+SA. If he has a high impact Eng tour this time, it'll just be another tick on his eventual stroll to ATG level.
 
His time has kinda started now. Whether or not he can win India matches abroad (and not just score runs) will define his legacy. All I want is he becomes a player like Kevin Peterson or Graeme Smith, and not Lara or Tkar.
 
Rahul1 said:
Shane Warne averages nearly 50 against us but he is still regarded as an ATG.
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Bhai, criterias for Indian players to be ATGs are different. Ponting does not have good record in tests in India but that’s fine.
 
Kohli has proven his strength and talent in Aus, and SA. Scoring lots of runs when others couldn't. His struggle in England is taken out of context and people are nit picking basically. India might be playing 2 more long test series in England, Aus and SA before he retires. Plenty of time before everyone will get on board with that Kohli can be as good in test as he has been in ODis.
 
Kohli got alot easy runs in aus but in south africa he has to been very good. This time i doubt it will swing in england nor andreson is at peak so he should score 2 - 3 centuries at least.
 
Sam99 said:
Kohli got alot easy runs in aus but in south africa he has to been very good. This time i doubt it will swing in england nor andreson is at peak so he should score 2 - 3 centuries at least.
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there is no such a thing as easy runs in Australia.
 
cricketworm said:
there is no such a thing as easy runs in Australia.
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smith was making runs for fun too and tail enders were making easy runs as well. Aus were pretty down after what happened with philip huges & pitches were absolute highway with road rollers working on it 6 hours a day.
 
Sam99 said:
smith was making runs for fun too and tail enders were making easy runs as well. Aus were pretty down after what happened with philip huges & pitches were absolute highway with road rollers working on it 6 hours a day.
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So, Smith has been number one test batsmen for a while in ICC ranking, it's because he is that good. So, Smith was also making runs doesn't go against Kohli.

How many asian batsmen have scored 2 centuries at MCG on the same test match?

Aus were pretty down after Huges? Pitches were road? Don't you find these reasons are not sufficient.

I will repeat. There is no such a thing as easy runs in Australia, esp. for an Asian batsmen. There is a reason why Aus. rarely lose test match in Aus.

Here which tailender was making runs there? Ashwin has one 50 there with 22 average.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/austr...ing/most_runs_career.html?id=9323;type=series
 
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cricketworm said:
So, Smith has been number one test batsmen for a while in ICC ranking, it's because he is that good. So, Smith was also making runs doesn't go against Kohli.

How many asian batsmen have scored 2 centuries at MCG on the same test match?

Aus were pretty down after Huges? Pitches were road? Don't you find these reasons are not sufficient.

I will repeat. There is no such a thing as easy runs in Australia, esp. for an Asian batsmen. There is a reason why Aus. rarely lose test match in Aus.

Here which tailender was making runs there? Ashwin has one 50 there with 22 average.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/austr...ing/most_runs_career.html?id=9323;type=series
Click to expand...

doesn't matter what ever you say i watched match live and it was most flattest deck i have ever seen in life.
 
Complete opposite to what he is in odis.

Master of soft runs. There isn't a single test series which India won or drew where I can say Virat was the star of the show. Yes cricket is a team game but you have to perform when chips are down and in the end win matters. And that is precisely why he is considered an ATG already.in odis.

That being said, he has time on his side and in rich form right now so England series might be the one and as some Indian posters said after 1st test against Pakistan that this is the worst English team.
 
Tremendous player. Has scored runs in SA, Aus, his rate of conversion of fifties into hundreds and his appetite in scoring double hundreds is incredible. He also has a knack of completely dominating a series when in good form (even though he at times goes missing for whole series). His batting in the recent SA tour in difficult conditions was superb to watch .

He had a nightmare in England 4 years ago but pretty sure he will do much better this time. Regardless almost all ATGs have one or two bogey countries. He's guaranteed to end up ATG by the end of his career.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Murali has tons of other records though. Most 5/10 wkt hauls, most wickets etc. Kohli won't get any test record except maybe the number of double tons. Not that most ATG own many records individually, but almost everyone has pretty even stats.

Anyway, batsmen and bowlers can't be compared directly. I don't know any single ATG batsman who has below 20 average in any country where they played more than 5 tests. For bowlers it's not similar, since you have spinners and pacers who have completely different stats.
Click to expand...

More than 5 TEST and below 20 AVERAGE..
Kind of filter you using here is self explanatory..
Lets modified your average filter to 27 and we will have ATG punter who dosent satisfied ths criteria...
 
For people doubting his impact even srt has just two centuries in winning cause in overseas after playing 200 games. I am sure he will better it.
 
Though i don't rate him as an atg yet but if he becomes the leading run scorer in this test series in England he will have a shot at it.
 
Slightly above average test batsman. Most of his runs are soft and not hard like Azhar Ali.

David Warner is a better test batsman than Kohli and that realization should hurt him.
 
Quality test batsman.

The English record is often used against him but that's not enough to knock his overall record. Kohli has done very well in SA, AUS, and NZ.

That's already better than most Asian batsmen.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Slightly above average test batsman. Most of his runs are soft and not hard like Azhar Ali.

David Warner is a better test batsman than Kohli and that realization should hurt him.
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Azhar has a 200 in Australia and a hundred in England and that too in Edgabaston. Can Kohli ever match him in the real form of cricket?
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
Complete opposite to what he is in odis.

Master of soft runs. <B>There isn't a single test series which India won or drew where I can say Virat was the star of the show.</B> Yes cricket is a team game but you have to perform when chips are down and in the end win matters. And that is precisely why he is considered an ATG already.in odis.

That being said, he has time on his side and in rich form right now so England series might be the one and as some Indian posters said after 1st test against Pakistan that this is the worst English team.
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India vs England, 5 test series in 2016?

His 54 and 41 recently on low scoring pitch were vital in that dead rubber win in Johannesburg as well.
 
Ab Fan said:
Azhar has a 200 in Australia and a hundred in England and that too in Edgabaston. Can Kohli ever match him in the real form of cricket?
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Thats what i said too. Read again, this time with a positive mind.

Your Bhaiajaan
 
Kohli was horrible in India whenever we played on spinning dustbowls.

He was horrible when the ball swung in England.

I have no hesitation to admit he is arguably the greatest ever ODI batsman but in tests his overall record doesnt tell how average he has been just like Kumar Sangakkara. Lots of runs and centuries but not much to show for against best teams on tough pitches.
 
If he gets runs against England this summer, then there will be no ratings whatsoever, he will become greatest batsman of current generation in all formats
 
UN talkz said:
If he gets runs against England this summer, then there will be no ratings whatsoever, he will become greatest batsman of current generation in all formats
Click to expand...

who are you kidding .... I can assure you 100% that there will be new criteria that will be created to run down his achievements and Troll. Just like it happened in SA. if you read threads before the SA series same things were said.

i already see people indulging in pre-emptive posts to cover all possibilities by saying that pitches will be flat by the time the Test series starts ... :)))
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
Complete opposite to what he is in odis.

Master of soft runs. There isn't a single test series which India won or drew where I can say Virat was the star of the show. Yes cricket is a team game but you have to perform when chips are down and in the end win matters. And that is precisely why he is considered an ATG already.in odis.

That being said, he has time on his side and in rich form right now so England series might be the one and as some Indian posters said after 1st test against Pakistan that this is the worst English team.
Click to expand...
Virat was the man of the series in Ind-Eng series where India won 4-0.
 
hadi123 said:
I was playing around with some stats and his record is better than I thought
Click to expand...

That could be because (Purely from Statistics POV)-:

a)He's had great series in Australia 2014 where India's runs scored per wicket was 37.75.

b)He was pathetic in England 2014 series where runs India's runs scored per wicket was just 25.73.

If we combine those 2 series,Kohli scored 826 runs @45.88 in 9 tests.

Rahane who was arguably India's 2nd best batsmen on both those series but somehow still managed to have inferior stats than Kohli(less runs along with lesser average).

Rahane scored 698 runs @ 43.62.Make no mistake,Rahane was easily better than Kohli if we combine performance of those 2 series.

If kohli was great in that England series while being pathetic in Australia then I don't think his combine averaged would be any more than 35.

With that being said,He's had great series in SA recently which was low scoring series.I think his away average now tells the exact story.

Kohli's away performance is better than Williamson.Rahane could also be called 2nd best batsmen away from home.

Performance away from home-:

Smith>Kohli=Rahane>Williamson
 
Tusker said:
who are you kidding .... I can assure you 100% that there will be new criteria that will be created to run down his achievements and Troll.
Click to expand...

If Kohli wants to rated as quality batsmen then he has to perform well in England.If he does that then he has to perform in Bangladesh where he averages only 14.If he also does well there then he has to perform against Pakistan(which looks impossible ATM)
 
Tusker said:
who are you kidding .... I can assure you 100% that there will be new criteria that will be created to run down his achievements and Troll. Just like it happened in SA. if you read threads before the SA series same things were said.

i already see people indulging in pre-emptive posts to cover all possibilities by saying that pitches will be flat by the time the Test series starts ... :)))
Click to expand...

I never said that and I have nothing to do with what people say
 
kuskash said:
Bhai, criterias for Indian players to be ATGs are different. Ponting does not have good record in tests in India but that’s fine.
Click to expand...

But Tendulkar is an unanimous ATG despite being poor in the 4th innings and his records
Vs Australia were rarely against a totally fit AUS bowling attack (eg rarely played all of Lee-McGrath-Gillespie-Warne in the same match).

Personally, I think you can average 0 in one country and still be an ATG. So Kohli is fine there. I just think his average is inflated by really big scores at home or on flat surfaces. Just my gut feeling. I could be wrong.
 
Shutdown Corner said:
But Tendulkar is an unanimous ATG despite being poor in the 4th innings and his records
Vs Australia were rarely against a totally fit AUS bowling attack (eg rarely played all of Lee-McGrath-Gillespie-Warne in the same match).
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Lee, Warne and Gillespie were not very effective in helping Aus against SRT.

SRT averaged 72 in 12 test when Lee played.
SRT averaged 60 in 12 tests when Warne played.

Even when Gillespie played in 8 tests, SRT averaged 55.

McGrath is the one who made difference.
 
Buffet said:
Lee, Warne and Gillespie were not very effective in helping Aus against SRT.

SRT averaged 72 in 12 test when Lee played.
SRT averaged 60 in 12 tests when Warne played.

Even when Gillespie played in 8 tests, SRT averaged 55.

McGrath is the one who made difference.
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Evreybody knows Tendulkar was McGrath's bunny
 
Makes sense for a people who have seen a batsman in their country and saw that he was rubbish.

There's still the happy colonial idea that England is an inherently important country for everyone to do well to be regarded highly.

I wonder who told us to believe that.

Kohli could fail in England and he'd still the best Test batsman playing right now.
 
No matter what he does, he will never be an ATG. There are unlimited criterias to be fulfilled.
 
lmao, the guy has destroyed bowlers in Australia, NZ and SA, yet people wouldn't rate him because he had one bad English tour. :))

The same people would rate Waqar a Test ATG despite him being miserable in the top-3 countries he could tour.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Any idea about the record of Viv and Sobers in NZ or Ponting in India?
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Viv only played 3 inns in NZ though. Nowhere near a decent sample size. In every other country he has 40+ average. Kohli in Eng has already played 3x the amount of inns Viv has played in NZ

Ponting's avg in Ind is also 2x of Kohli's in Eng. With that being said, it's also atrocious. That's why Ponting is nowhere near Tendulkar in tests, Tendulkar was much, much more balanced.
 
BlackShadow said:
lmao, the guy has destroyed bowlers in Australia, NZ and SA, yet people wouldn't rate him because he had one bad English tour. :))

The same people would rate Waqar a Test ATG despite him being miserable in the top-3 countries he could tour.
Click to expand...

Waqar is only a just barely ATG. In fact I have never seen him in any All time XI except some Pakistani forums on the internet.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Viv only played 3 inns in NZ though. Nowhere near a decent sample size. In every other country he has 40+ average. Kohli in Eng has already played 3x the amount of inns Viv has played in NZ

<B>Ponting's avg in Ind is also 2x of Kohli's in Eng.</B> With that being said, it's also atrocious. That's why Ponting is nowhere near Tendulkar in tests, Tendulkar was much, much more balanced.
Click to expand...

Ponting avg after 2001 series in India was 12.2 after a total of 12 innings.

In 2001 series, he had an avg of 3.40. So, we can rest all these comparisons.

However, Ponting is still considered one of the greatest test batsmen of all-time because in his 7 years of peak, he averaged around 68 and had what is regarded as the second greatest peak of all-time.

Kohli doesn't have a peak like that but neither will he be ending up at an average of 13 in England.
 
Form is temporary. Class is permanent.

Quality player on a mission to improve his test record in England.
 
Kohli's mission is to improve the team record in England and in the process, his record will be improved itself.

Unfortunately, the batting has been disappointing all-in-all. Whom you blame- Rahul, Dahwan, Rahane, Karthik, Pandya?? That's 5 names.
 
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