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How do you rate England's ODI bowling attack?

He was nowhere near lethal against India at home in 2011 and this year in ODIs and India had makeshift openers in both tours.
He was very average against SA also in their last 2 tours to England and SA have struggled badly in England in ODIs in those tours.
Even Pakistan openers got great starts in their last tour!
these can be confirmed.

so, How does he even get rated in ODI's after such performances 'at home'?
Broad is their only true good odi bowler. Finn was good for a year or so.
Swann/Tredwell in spinners.
 
Anderson was nowhere near lethal and actually failed against India at home in 2011 and this year in ODIs and India had makeshift openers in both tours.
He was very average against SA also in their last 2 tours to England and SA have struggled badly in England in ODIs in those tours.
Even Pakistan openers got great starts in their last tour!
these can be confirmed.

so, How does he even get rated in ODI's after such performances 'at home'?
Broad is their only true good odi bowler. Finn was good for a year or so.
Swann/Tredwell in spinners.
 
I don't think England is a good odi team. I can't see them winning this WC. Even if Broad, Anderson and Bresnan do well with the ball, I doubt the batting will make up for it. Moeen Ali is over rated in terms of batting and bowling. 3 missed chance by SL allowed him to get to the century. He is good but he is overrated in this forum. Expected more from Morgan and Bell. How is Dernbach doing ? Where is Bresnan ?
 
Having a good guy like cook as captain is more important than winning or losing
 
Robert said:
Pakistan also lost to Ireland in a WC.
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I clearly referred to that attack which someone claimed to be the best for England.

the main point was about Anderson who is almost a joke in odis. I haven't seen anything from him in the last few years otherwise.
 
Lethalweapon said:
I clearly referred to that attack which someone claimed to be the best for England.

the main point was about Anderson who is almost a joke in odis. I haven't seen anything from him in the last few years otherwise.
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Losing one match to a minnow doesn't make an entire bowling attack terrible.

Of course he isn't "almost a joke" - there is no need for hyperbole. Anderson is rated #4 in the world currently, behind Ajmal, Narine and Steyn.
 
Missing swann IMO. Also Finn needs to get his mojo back. England have always lacked dynamic cricketers with flair to win matches on their own but this time round they look woeful.
 
Since the last WC, Anderson averages 22 in ODIs, s/r 31, e/r 4.5.
 
Amazing bowling attack but all of them need to be fit all the time but i think the team as a whole will struggle on flat pitches.
 
To be honest, pakistan isn't the benchmark for batting strength, so this doesnt prove they have a solid bowlin unit. Even Bangladesh could get Younus and an out of form Jamshed out.

Let's see how they fare against Ondian batsmen before makig a judgement.
 
as-95 said:
To be honest, pakistan isn't the benchmark for batting strength, so this doesnt prove they have a solid bowlin unit. Even Bangladesh could get Younus and an out of form Jamshed out.

Let's see how they fare against Ondian batsmen before makig a judgement.
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Their bowling owned us in 2 of the ODIs we played recently in tri series.

Their bowling is solid for these condiitons.
 
as-95 said:
To be honest, pakistan isn't the benchmark for batting strength, so this doesnt prove they have a solid bowlin unit. Even Bangladesh could get Younus and an out of form Jamshed out.

Let's see how they fare against Ondian batsmen before makig a judgement.
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They just recently had a tri series with India and Australia and England hammered India....
 
I guess we spoke a bit too soon. Thy failed to take out and finish off a weak Pakistani lower order despite getting the top 4 cheaply. Let's see if they can boive back from this. In sha Allah it will be a massive confidence boost for Pakistan.
 
as-95 said:
I guess we spoke a bit too soon. Thy failed to take out and finish off a weak Pakistani lower order despite getting the top 4 cheaply. Let's see if they can boive back from this. In sha Allah it will be a massive confidence boost for Pakistan.
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England will have Finn and Woakes back for the tournament proper. I don't know how anyone can describe England's bowling as weak, it is one of the better bowling line ups in the world. Broad, Anderson and Finn are all top ODI bowlers in their own way. It is their batting which is not as strong as other teams.
 
It isn't weak by any stretch and as of now, is better than the Pakistani one. They came up against determined batting side today and lost, tells you more about the quality of the Pakistani batting rather than the lack of quality in the English camp.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
England will have Finn and Woakes back for the tournament proper. I don't know how anyone can describe England's bowling as weak, it is one of the better bowling line ups in the world. Broad, Anderson and Finn are all top ODI bowlers in their own way. It is their batting which is not as strong as other teams.
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Sure, and Tredwell is only going to get a look-in at Sydney too.

I can see this or the other England bowling thread getting bumped depending on each England game result.
 
Still rather have England's pacers and Pakistan's spinners

England know Australia conditions better than most
 
SA is chasing down any total against this joke bowling in ODI and T20 with ease and Chris Moriss is hitting them out of the park for fun. I guess Pak batting is not good enough to even score against these average english bowlers that lost us UAE series :facepalm:
 
I really like Topley to be honest and think he'll turn out to be a very good bowler for us. Jordan as always is going to be the big question in the team.
 
ChachaCricket said:
Your U-19 bowlers have more potential than this lot.
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The bowling could of been much worse today. Even when they bowled well Amla still managed to get it straight through the fielders on the off side. Rashid should also of had the wicket of both these batsman by now already in addition.
 
England looking for good depth in there batting , a kind of depth by which they can go after the bowling all the time . For that they have to compromise with bowling a bit.
 
Jordon has to be one of the worst bowlers I've ever seen. I still can't believe how Afridi and Akmal couldn't score a run off him in that super over :facepalm:
 
Strike Rate said:
SA is chasing down any total against this joke bowling in ODI and T20 with ease and Chris Moriss is hitting them out of the park for fun. I guess Pak batting is not good enough to even score against these average english bowlers that lost us UAE series :facepalm:
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Pakistan batting is not right criteria to judge bowlers.
 
Need to get rid of Jordan, ASAP. Finn replacing him will improve this attack immensely.
 
The_KING said:
Jordon has to be one of the worst bowlers I've ever seen. I still can't believe how Afridi and Akmal couldn't score a run off him in that super over :facepalm:
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I can't get over that. They made him look like prime Waqar in that over.

Saffers need to thank us for ensuring that Jordan got to play so many matches in this series.
 
The_KING said:
Jordon has to be one of the worst bowlers I've ever seen. I still can't believe how Afridi and Akmal couldn't score a run off him in that super over :facepalm:
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That short run-up means that he relies on his action too much. When he gets is right, he is very good. When he doesn't he gets hit.
 
I think England bowling will need 180+ every match in these conditions to have a chance at defending the total.
 
lol what a way to get back his form Gayle smash a T20 100 against this bowling attack in 47 balls chasing a total of 183.
 
In India, in these condition, they are not the worst attack in this WC - definitely better attack than Oman, HK, Ireland, Scotland & Netherlands.
 
MMHS said:
In India, in these condition, they are not the worst attack in this WC - definitely better attack than Oman, HK, Ireland, Scotland & Netherlands.
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all the mentioned teams are not playing super 10 so basically they are the worst in other words
 
Strike Rate said:
all the mentioned teams are not playing super 10 so basically they are the worst in other words
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In India, if you plan to bowl 8 overs (40%) by Bhai & Bhai, then add Stokes in the mix, after opening with (Wi)Lillee & (Top)Lillee, you should expect trouble.
 
MMHS said:
In India, if you plan to bowl 8 overs (40%) by Bhai & Bhai, then add Stokes in the mix, after opening with (Wi)Lillee & (Top)Lillee, you should expect trouble.
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Agree and i think they need Broad this bowling attack don't have any experience at all.
 
Strike Rate said:
Agree and i think they need Broad this bowling attack don't have any experience at all.
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Problem is, Poms think Chris Jordan is next Brett Lee & their left-arm opening attack is like Aamir-Irfan. Not to mention the spin attack of Warne & Murali ........
 
MMHS said:
Problem is, Poms think Chris Jordan is next Brett Lee & their left-arm opening attack is like Aamir-Irfan. Not to mention the spin attack of Warne & Murali ........
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I don't think that's true . More likely that England simply don't care enough about this format or this tournament. Otherwise an attack if Broad/Finn/Wood could've played T20's and wouldve comfortably been better than the Willey's and Toppleys
 
MMHS said:
Problem is, Poms think Chris Jordan is next Brett Lee & their left-arm opening attack is like Aamir-Irfan. Not to mention the spin attack of Warne & Murali ........
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I never understand this even english commies keep on praising Jordan i don't knwo what he achieved so far? And he is also labeled an allrounder and the best fielder in english side. Looks like a full tool box
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I don't think that's true . More likely that England simply don't care enough about this format or this tournament. Otherwise an attack if Broad/Finn/Wood could've played T20's and wouldve comfortably been better than the Willey's and Toppleys
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It's actually true what MMHS bro said i guess you missed some recent England LOI games? Jordan is like the first name in their LOI 11 when he is fit and than you hear their commies talking about him all the time about his bowling/fielding/hitting.
 
Strike Rate said:
It's actually true what MMHS bro said i guess you missed some recent England LOI games? Jordan is like the first name in their LOI 11 when he is fit and than you hear their commies talking about him all the time about his bowling/fielding/hitting.
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To be fair I don't really follow England's LOI teams but I'm pretty sure the only reason Willey and Toppley made it is because of England's T20 series win in the UAE and they thought they'd do well in India as well.
 
Strike Rate said:
I never understand this even english commies keep on praising Jordan i don't knwo what he achieved so far? And he is also labeled an allrounder and the best fielder in english side. Looks like a full tool box
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To be fair he's probably one of the best fielders in the world on the whole and can give the ball a good slog (although should be behind Willey in the batting order). His bowling is so temperamental that he'll either nail a load of yorkers and look brilliant or completely flop and get smashed.
 
The preparation for the Ashes are on in full swing.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I don't think that's true . More likely that England simply don't care enough about this format or this tournament. Otherwise an attack if Broad/Finn/Wood could've played T20's and wouldve comfortably been better than the Willey's and Toppleys
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That's unfair, since the debacle at last year's WC England are now investing a lot in LOIs and A drew Strauss has made statements to that effect. Look at all the talk of restructuring the domestic T20 competition and the more relaxed attitude towards IPL with Buttler being allowed to miss part of the English season to participate.

The batting has immeasurably improved but the bowling is a weakness. Broad isn't that good in LOIs, Finn is made of glass and is injury prone and Mark Wood is still rehabbing after left ankle surgery. If they weren't injured Finn and Wood would be playing.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
To be fair I don't really follow England's LOI teams but I'm pretty sure the only reason Willey and Toppley made it is because of England's T20 series win in the UAE and they thought they'd do well in India as well.
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England is suffering from "Bits & Pieces" Syndrome - every County side has few of them. 10 players capable of batting and 9 players (Including Randal, Gooch, Boycott, Gatting) capable of rolling arms. Those were quite effective strategy in 70s to 90s when the game was balanced - something in the wicket for the bowlers, therefore ENG made 3 WC finals of 1st 5 & won 2 WSC finals.

Those are the days of Peter Willis, Pringles, Reeves, Iranis, Elhams, Capels, Dougi Browns, Holliok brothers (I can find another 20 names) could get way with 10-1-45-1 figures, which was quite handy in those days when 225 is match winning & you have someone Derek Pringle, Philpe Defreters at 10 & 11 ....... these days the game has become batting shoot out - today Gayle polished those nerds & recently SAF came back to win 3-2 from 0-2.

The fundamental strategy of any game is - whichever skill (part of the game) is handicapped, they strengthen that. Ever since Off-side rule was changed, better teams are putting sprinters at Centre Backs, from the heavy duty days of Marsell Desaily, Tony Adam or Koeman. Poms are trying the opposite way - trying to cover batting in these slog feast era sacrificing their wicket taking ability - won't work out-side UK (Though, in UK, these same seemers 'll look like Hadlee & Aldermann with two white balls in early June during next 2 ICC events - that's different story)
 
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If England include Finn and Broad instead of Willy and Nilly, their bowling attack would look much better.

Poor selection is the reason for this pathetic show.
 
MMHS said:
England is suffering from "Bits & Pieces" Syndrome - every County side has few of them. 10 players capable of batting and 9 players (Including Randal, Gooch, Boycott, Gatting) capable of rolling arms. Those were quite effective strategy in 70s to 90s when the game was balanced - something in the wicket for the bowlers, therefore ENG made 3 WC finals of 1st 5 & won 2 WSC finals.
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It was more to do with the fact that England played a lot of domestic OD and the other nations did not. By the nineties, all nations were playing lots of ODIs and England were overtaken.
 
two left arm trundlers one right arm trundler Ben stokes one brainless and useless fast bowler Jordan
average offie Ali only adil rashid is quality in their attack

liam plunkett and Finn shoulder desperately replace that willy and silly....
 
sad truth but only pakistan and south African pacers are exciting to watch rest other teams has stale and boring pace attack
also their no quality spinners except ashwin tahir and afridi this tournament is boring as hell
 
speedking said:
two left arm trundlers one right arm trundler Ben stokes one brainless and useless fast bowler Jordan average offie Ali only adil rashid is quality in their attack

liam plunkett and Finn shoulder desperately replace that willy and silly....
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Stokes can wind up to 140 kph. I agree about the other blokes. Jordan can look excellent one day and mediocre for the next three matches.
 
Robert said:
It was more to do with the fact that England played a lot of domestic OD and the other nations did not. By the nineties, all nations were playing lots of ODIs and England were overtaken.
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Partly true, but those days most better ODI teams (Read AUS, PAK & of course WI) had most of their Internationals playing in Counties, which normalizes that factor. I still think, it was the bowling friendly wickets/condition/rule of that period that helped teams like ENG & PAK who had lot's of bowling all-rounders - bowlers that could contribute something with bat.

At present, the way ENG team is approaching LO cricket with their bowling, I might be wrong, but it won't earn them much outside UK. There are slog feast era, when you need solid 40 overs, just to save yourself from chasing 300+. Batting lineup of AUS, IND, SRL, SAF, NZ or even BD are not like Pakistan that, they 'll blow 130/1 after 25 sort of start to a 210 all-out on an UAE dross. And Pakistan managed to do that against AUS as well - twice, & once against BD at Dhaka (100/0 after 19, to ~250 all-out) ........
 
England need to go with Broad, Finn and Anderson in Limited Overs as well. They might not be great in the shorter formats, but they are still miles better than these Topleys and Willies.

Easily the worst attack in the tournament. Moeen has been exposed as well for the part-timer that he is.
 
Bar gough and Flintoff the England seamers in ltd overs have always been and are woeful full stop!
 
too many trundlers which outside home conditions just aren't good enough.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
This is nightmare i mean not even club level bowling attacks concede 83 runs in first 6 over!
 
Strike Rate said:
This is nightmare i mean not even club level bowling attacks concede 83 runs in first 6 over!
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Al 3 English seemers are "length" bowlers - they hit the perfect length & get "purchase" from the wicket or new ball. On these wickets, that's the perfect length to hit through the line. Besides, their leggi has very little variation - only weapon is big turner with flight (he is hardly used in 1st innings in County matches) - that's another recipe for disaster on these tracks & grounds.

Jimmy is too old now, while Finn I guess is injured (I am sure, even if fit, they won't have picked him), but Pluncket should have picked today.
 
MMHS said:
Al 3 English seemers are "length" bowlers - they hit the perfect length & get "purchase" from the wicket or new ball. On these wickets, that's the perfect length to hit through the line. Besides, their leggi has very little variation - only weapon is big turner with flight (he is hardly used in 1st innings in County matches) - that's another recipe for disaster on these tracks & grounds.

Jimmy is too old now, while Finn I guess is injured (I am sure, even if fit, they won't have picked him), but Pluncket should have picked today.
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Adil i think still is better than all their bowlers so i don't think he should be dropped but there is a big question mark on Moeen bowling although he got 2 important wickets today.

Finn got injured? I thought he played the series in SA
 
Jordan conceded 49 runs in his 3 overs today without taking a wicket thats 16 runs every over.
 
Too much occasional promise with loads of bad balls thrown in by the seamers. Movement from Willey and Topley but they don't keep their line right lock enough and Jordan has clearly got those yorkers but they're not thrown in there often enough.
 
Rubbish rubbish bowling. Economy rates of 16 lol. Moeen is actually their best bowler and that says a lot about the rest.
 
Felt like they had bowling collapse as each player coming in was smashing each and every bowler.

Good thing is, they have it in them to try to chase this down on this flat track.
 
How often do you see a bowling card like this?

20200912_133353.jpg

rpo for all bowlers in between 5.4 and 5.9.

not very common.
 
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